#instantbird log on 11 30 2011

All times are UTC.

00:00:36 <aleth> Do you remember how to reproduce that _textSelected warning?
00:01:24 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org denied review for attachment 1022 on bug 1182.
00:01:27 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1182 nor, --, 1.2, nobody, NEW, "Reference to undefined property" JS warnings
00:01:30 <flo> not really, but it's easy to guess by reading the code
00:01:41 <flo> it's a corner case of the magic copy algorithm
00:01:50 <aleth> Yes
00:01:59 <aleth> But which one ;)
00:01:59 <flo> when selecting a nick maybe
00:03:04 <flo> have you looked at group.xml/this._showOffline already?
00:05:21 <aleth> I don't think so
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00:06:07 <flo> I can't seem to reproduce any more, strange :-S
00:07:13 <aleth> It's not clear from the code why there should be a problem
00:08:26 <flo> there's a      <field name="_showOffline">false</field>
00:08:32 <flo> isn't this one we have already fixed?
00:08:38 <aleth> Aha!
00:08:40 <aleth> That would explain it
00:08:45 <flo> ah, bug 1184!
00:08:49 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1184 nor, --, 1.2, aletheia2, RESO FIXED, Warning: _showOffline undefined in group.xml
00:08:50 <aleth> One of the simple ones, so simple you forget :)
00:09:23 <aleth> I was staring at the code thinking, that looks OK...
00:16:55 <flo> ok, so how many different warnings have we fixed tonight? :)
00:17:47 <EionRobb> warning: ft is unimplemented, glib and libpurple are butchered :P
00:18:12 <flo> 3 in accounts.js, 1 in account.xml, 1 in conversation.xml, 2 in tabbrowser.xml
00:18:19 <aleth> expected> fixed >0 :)
00:19:10 <flo> EionRobb: "glib and libpurple are butchered" that's a general fact, not Instantbird-specific :-P.
00:19:33 <flo> and ft is coming, with dropbox :)
00:20:55 <-- ecaron has quit (Ping timeout)
00:21:35 <flo> EionRobb: do you really dislike all my libpurple changes? :-S
00:22:32 <flo> have you seen how I've "butchered" the debug API? :)
00:22:36 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/5558759bb593 - Florian Quèze - Bug 1182 - 'Reference to undefined property' JS warnings in account.xml, conversation.xml and tabbrowser.xml.
00:22:37 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/2393be72d095 - aleth - Bug 1182 - 'Reference to undefined property' JS warnings in accounts.js, r=fqueze.
00:23:11 <EionRobb> nah, I'm not talking about the changes, just how IB is missing lots of .h's
00:25:28 <flo> EionRobb: it's just sad that libpurple exports by default in the same set of files the APIs for prpl authors and for UI (plugin) authors :(.
00:28:43 <aleth> "alert is not defined"? silly resource://...
00:28:46 <flo> EionRobb: and there are lots of .h that we have removed that would otherwise be exposing things that have no way to work (gio for instances depends on the glib event loop, which we don't have)
00:28:59 <flo> aleth: alert only exist in DOM windows
00:29:32 <flo> are you playing in imThemes.jsm?
00:29:37 <flo> dump() works everywhere
00:29:49 <flo> (you need to start instantbird from a terminal to see the result though)
00:30:05 <Mook_as> Components.utils.reportError works too, but is a mouthful
00:30:05 <EionRobb> msn-pecan needs gio iirc   and doesn't libpurple 3.0.0 use gio?
00:30:22 <flo> aleth: or you can use Services.console.logStringMessage("string");
00:30:39 <aleth> Thanks :) I'll stick with dump
00:30:50 <flo> EionRobb: that's the reason why msn-pecan can only work very poorly in both Instantbird and Adium.
00:31:18 <flo> and I don't think libpurple 3.0.0 uses gio. I know some pidgin developers want to use it, and some (elb?) argue it's pointless.
00:42:56 <flo> Good night :)
00:42:56 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre)
00:50:47 <aleth> flo: How's this look? http://pastebin.instantbird.com/1136
00:51:43 <Mook_as> shouldn't the else() go near line 30 instead of 54?
00:52:31 * Mook_as guess instantbird doesn't do the "always brace if one side has brace" thing for if/else; see line 42.
00:53:11 <clokep> I think we do the "don't use braces unless it's more than one line". :)
00:53:21 <Mook_as> good to know!
00:53:23 <clokep> (Which isn't the same as "don't use braces unless they're necessary"!)
00:54:00 <Mook_as> ah, so do use braces for: if (foo) \n bar. \n baz. \n quux(); ?
00:56:27 <aleth> Mook_as: Yes, that's probably clearer
00:56:44 <clokep> Mook_as: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/1137
00:56:53 * Mook_as likes his solution of "use excessive braces" better :p
00:59:21 <clokep> :P
00:59:43 <Mook_as> you mean { :P }
01:01:39 <Novarg> I always end up wanting to debug the if branches where I left out the braces and thus got myself used to add the braces everywhere to lower my level of annoyance
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01:03:26 <clokep> Yes, that's happened to me a lot before. :(
01:13:24 <clokep> EionRobb: If you're curious, the changes to pidgin-opensteamworks I had to make: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/1138
01:14:36 <EionRobb> interesting.  which repo were you getting the opensteamworks deps/headers from?
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01:15:31 <xpenguin> Can I ask a question about installing Instantbird?
01:15:53 <clokep> EionRobb: https://bitbucket.org/VoiDeD/open-steamworks
01:16:00 <clokep> xpenguin: Of course, that's what we're here for. :)
01:16:31 <xpenguin> I am using xubuntu and just downloaded Instantbird
01:16:43 <xpenguin> trying to find an alternative to pidgin and it seems that this is the one
01:17:07 <xpenguin> xubuntu version is the latest from their site
01:17:22 <xpenguin> when I run instantbird, I get an error via cli
01:17:33 <EionRobb> clokep: weird.  me too.
01:17:37 <xpenguin> ./instantbird-bin: error while loading shared libraries: libxul.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
01:17:55 <clokep> xpenguin: "latest from their site" = instantbird.com?
01:18:01 <xpenguin> sorry
01:18:03 <xpenguin> xubuntu
01:18:10 <clokep> What version is it?
01:18:28 <xpenguin> 11.10
01:18:40 <clokep> Sorry, what version of Instantbird. :)
01:18:45 <clokep> (Are they providing.)
01:18:47 <xpenguin> oh, 1.1
01:18:52 <xpenguin> wait wait
01:18:57 <xpenguin> I am on xubuntu 11.10
01:18:57 <clokep> Oh, awesome.
01:19:05 <xpenguin> I downloaded the new version of instantbird, 1.1
01:19:23 <xpenguin> sorry, got confused
01:19:42 <clokep> Good! libxul I think is provided as a depdendency from your package manager, but I'd think if you have Firefox installed it shuld have it.
01:20:04 <xpenguin> I have firefox but am not using it
01:20:12 <xpenguin> do you think I should update firefox and that should work?
01:20:19 <xpenguin> currently using chrome
01:21:07 <clokep> I'm not sure how xubuntu does their packaging (and I don't really use Linux much anymore so I'm a bit rusty :-X)
01:21:15 <clokep> You could try updating it though if it's very old.
01:21:43 <Novarg> clokep: are you developing on a mac?
01:21:43 <xpenguin> I did run through the update manager through xubuntu and all is well
01:21:54 <clokep> Novarg: No, I run Windows.
01:22:04 <clokep> Does that mean it works? :)
01:22:40 <Mook_as> xpenguin: how are you starting instantbird?
01:23:13 <xpenguin> Mook_as: ./instantbird-bin
01:23:25 <Mook_as> xpenguin: please run ./instantbird instead
01:23:35 <clokep> Bah Mook_as you're right. :(
01:23:38 <xpenguin> ah ha
01:23:43 <xpenguin> I didn't see that
01:23:45 <Mook_as> (it's a wrapper script to set up things correctly so it can find libxul.so :p )
01:23:56 <Mook_as> clokep: and I'm not even on linux! :p
01:24:15 <xpenguin> oh my goodness
01:24:25 <xpenguin> I may demote myself to linux n00b
01:24:31 <Mook_as> (okay, that's cheating - I actually have a linux machine next to me)
01:24:52 <Mook_as> and it's just "mozilla apps are weird", so it not your fault :)
01:24:52 <clokep> I have MozillaBuild next to me, does that count? :P
01:24:58 <xpenguin> well here is the thing, I like to think I am pretty good at linux but something this simple escaped me
01:25:18 <Mook_as> hmm, what gecko version is ib on these days?
01:25:28 <clokep> 1.1 is 7.0 I believe.
01:25:32 <clokep> (Or 7.0.1 maybe?)
01:25:36 <clokep> Nightlies are 9.0b2.
01:25:37 <Mook_as> ah, 1.1 is 7, so it shouldn't _need_ -bin anymore...
01:25:50 <clokep> (1.0 was 4.0)
01:26:05 <Mook_as> (0.3 was ancient history)
01:26:17 <clokep> 0.3 == 1.0
01:26:23 <clokep> 0.2 was god knows what.
01:29:20 <xpenguin> Awesome!
01:29:26 <xpenguin> Thank you Mook_as and clokep
01:29:42 <clokep> xpenguin: You're welcome! I hope you like it. :)
01:29:42 <xpenguin> now, a more technical question
01:29:44 <Mook_as> you're welcome!
01:29:57 <xpenguin> I dual boot between this and win7
01:30:00 <clokep> Sure, what's up?
01:30:31 <xpenguin> is there a way that I can share .instantbird folder between OS's so that way I can see all my logs no matter what OS I am on?
01:31:07 <clokep> You should be able to, for linux it's at ~/.instantbird
01:31:20 <clokep> As long as you don't have any binary extensions I should add.
01:31:38 <xpenguin> and in windows, it is in my %appdata%\Roaming\.instantbird right?
01:32:15 <clokep> %AppData%\Roaming\Instantbird
01:32:17 <clokep> (No .)
01:32:45 <clokep> Run Instantbird on both so that you get a profile folder on both.
01:32:52 <clokep> Then link one to the other somehow. :)
01:33:04 * Mook_as wonders if instantbird -P will help here
01:33:05 <clokep> (I.e. on Linux link it to your windows partition if you're dual booting)
01:33:11 <clokep> I'm not sure if your exact set up.
01:33:19 <Mook_as> (make it use absolute paths)
01:33:40 <Mook_as> (p.s. I'm having my own conversation with myself here, or something like that)
01:33:53 <xpenguin> that is cool by me, I do that too :)
01:35:53 <clokep> But yes, you can use the -P parameter to bring up the profile editor and possible give a path to the profile you want to use.
01:35:58 <clokep> Or edit profiles.ini if you live dangerously. ;)
01:36:35 <xpenguin> on, one thing I found, don't know if it is already known...going to Tools -> Preferences -> Privacy -> Show Log Folder...
01:36:44 <xpenguin> I get an error asking what I should do regarding opening links
01:36:59 <clokep> That's because Linux is lame.
01:37:07 <xpenguin> since I am in xubuntu, I searched for my file manager, which is Thunar (/usr/bin/Thunar) and now everything works
01:37:17 <clokep> Good.
01:37:49 <xpenguin> I figure either you clokep or Mook_as is a developer so I thought I should mention it
01:37:57 <xpenguin> so far, I am digging the interface and everything
01:38:00 <Mook_as> sorry, I'm more of a slacker :p
01:38:01 <clokep> Thanks. :)
01:38:40 <clokep> Mook_as: (Since you're still at work?) Komodo doesn't like the line |unquoted += "\001";|, I think it's valid. It gives a red line under it.
01:38:50 <clokep> (Although this could be an add-on. :-[)
01:38:50 <Mook_as> clokep: in JS?
01:38:54 <clokep> Yes.
01:39:34 <clokep> Is that an incorrect way to specify an octal digit?
01:39:39 <clokep> I thought that was valid in JS.
01:39:41 <Mook_as> ah, it's warning about octals
01:39:44 <Mook_as> no, they killed it :(
01:39:58 <Mook_as> (there are _no_ valid ways to specify octals anymore :| )
01:40:25 <Mook_as> hmm, though that might depend on JS version
01:40:51 <clokep> Oh. so I should specify in hex?
01:41:10 <Mook_as> yeah, that should work
01:42:33 <clokep> The spec gives it in octal though, that's annoying. :P
01:42:33 <Mook_as> odd, "\001" still seems to work in JS shell for me?
01:43:42 <clokep> Oh, it /works/
01:43:47 <clokep> I just don't like red lines in my editor. ;)
01:45:17 <Mook_as> ah, there we go, js -s -C -e '"\001"' gives http://sprunge.us/UjRR
01:45:42 <Mook_as> the fact that it's a red squiggle and not a green squiggle is probably a bug
01:46:58 <xpenguin> not to interrupt something going on here but I was wondering, is there anything I can do to help troubleshoot instantbird?
01:47:06 <xpenguin> I am more of a user than a programmer of sorts
01:47:19 * xpenguin can't program at all
01:47:24 <clokep> xpenguin: Sure, first off...any issues you see, please file a bug on https://bugzilla.instantbird.org
01:47:40 <clokep> We can't fix bugs we don't know about! (And we definitely don't use the program in the same way all of our users do. :))
01:48:15 <xpenguin> I was kinda figuring that, hence my earlier question.  I will report back in the next few days to see if this all worked with the profile thing
01:48:24 <xpenguin> tho I am sure you guys are faster than myself :)
01:48:34 <clokep> If you're a bit more adventurous, you can also try using our nightly builds if you'd like (they have the latest code, but of course they can sometimes be a bit unstable).
01:48:58 <clokep> Mook_as: Do I get a prize for finding a bug? ;)
01:49:06 <xpenguin> they do update every night right? I have had some programs in the past that said they were nightlies and they didn't update every night
01:49:28 <clokep> xpenguin: They update "every night"...meaning they update unless the compile fails or something else happens.
01:49:42 <clokep> That doesn't necessarily mean there are code changes every night.
01:49:50 <xpenguin> ah, rock on then
01:50:10 <xpenguin> awesome stuff y'all, awesome stuff
01:50:11 <Mook_as> clokep: well, I was going to say you get to file it
01:50:23 <clokep> :( Do you guys have a public BZ?
01:50:23 <Mook_as> but I'm half way through :p you still can, if you want to, though!
01:50:31 <clokep> No thanks. :)
01:50:33 <Mook_as> yeah, http://bugs.activestate.com/ is public
01:50:58 <Mook_as> (there are private components in there, of course.  unless you _really_ wanted to know about the plumbing...)
01:51:17 <clokep> Mook_as: Not only is it public...I apparently have an account. ;)
01:51:21 <Mook_as> haha
01:53:05 <clokep> Feel free to CC me? :)
01:53:26 * clokep can never decide about using switch statements vs if statements...
01:54:39 <Mook_as> what's your bugmail (there)?
01:55:10 <Mook_as> "clo" found nothing :|
01:55:22 <clokep> clokep@gmail.com
01:55:33 <clokep> Same as my Instantbird one. :P
01:55:41 <clokep> And I just put that in a public log. :
01:55:43 <clokep> :(
01:56:02 <Mook_as> that's okay, I just put it in a public bug (bug 91761 ) :p
01:56:21 <Mook_as> I guess it's set to not complete on emails, just names
01:58:10 <clokep> I should bring this up in #komodo next time. :(
02:00:27 <Mook_as> meh, the only difference is we confuse xpenguin more :p
02:01:02 <xpenguin> ha ha ha
02:01:06 <xpenguin> its all good
02:01:14 <xpenguin> I have no idea what you are talking about
02:01:23 <xpenguin> just putting in my bug I found in the bugzilla for instantbird
02:01:34 <xpenguin> you guys got your own thing going on
02:01:46 <xpenguin> I am just watching whatever unfurl
02:02:10 <Mook_as> yeah, just a bug report for what I'm doing for work (http://activestate.com/komodo)
02:02:15 <Mook_as> and with that, I should go home :)
02:05:18 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1188 filed by xavior.penguin@gmail.com.
02:05:20 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1188 min, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Show Log Folder Button not opening a File Manager
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02:26:58 <clokep> xpenguin: Nice Tweet. :) But made with TweetDeck and not Instantbird! =-o
02:26:59 <clokep> :P
02:29:21 <xpenguin> using chrome tho
02:29:39 <xpenguin> I will try the twitter functionality later
02:29:50 <xpenguin> until I can pry myself away from tweetdeck for chrome
02:30:25 <clokep> Oh? I've never used that.
02:30:40 <xpenguin> Tweetdeck started out small and then kinda got big
02:30:58 <xpenguin> I use that for my tweets and looking at my facebook feed so I don't have to have facebook open all the time
02:31:09 <xpenguin> one of the primary reasons on moving from pidgin to something else
02:31:18 <xpenguin> was getting nowhere with pidgin in terms of help
02:31:26 <xpenguin> but I got it here with Instantbird
02:31:32 <xpenguin> so I should be staying quite a while
02:31:48 * xpenguin is now known as XaviorPenguin
02:32:02 <XaviorPenguin> gah, remembering IRC all over again
02:32:44 <clokep> :) Yes, IRC can be a bit funky.
02:58:32 <clokep> Goodnight.
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03:45:10 <XaviorPenguin> Ah ha, IRC in Instantbird
03:45:13 <XaviorPenguin> Nice
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04:40:41 <Mook> odd, I seem to be stuck on away. need to narrow down str.
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09:42:25 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm cancelled review?(florian@instantbird .org) for attachment 1026 on bug 1182.
09:42:26 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 1039 on bug 1182.
09:42:27 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1182 nor, --, 1.2, nobody, NEW, "Reference to undefined property" JS warnings
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09:55:55 <flo> aleth: I think this new patch is good. It's more or less what I had in mind the last time I looked seriously at that file.
09:55:55 <flo> (not r+'ing it immediately though as I would like to take some time to double check there's no similar issue with something else in the code immediately around it)
09:56:17 <flo> btw, good morning! :)
09:56:39 <aleth> Good morning :)
09:56:51 <aleth> I just forgot to actually submit it last night.
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09:59:33 <aleth> There is a potential similar issue if the cutBegin/End getters are called when _textSelected is false. However I wasn't sure if that circumstance ever arose, nor can I tell what the desired behaviour would be in that case.
10:03:48 <flo> yeah, it's that kind of things that I want to look at before commiting the fix :)
10:12:08 <Mic> Hello.
10:13:24 <Mic> I'm still not used to the color of my own bubbles btw ;)
10:13:46 <flo> ah?
10:13:50 <flo> I finally got used to mine
10:14:17 <flo> I'm just sad that all frequently active participants (except Mook) here are red/pink
10:14:33 <Guido> hello
10:14:33 <Guido> i just made a youtube account and saw that you can ad friends.
10:14:33 <Guido> what is teh function of the friends? can i write with them? if yes, can i integreat it inti instantbird?
10:14:34 <flo> ah, instantbot is green too :)
10:16:41 <Mic> Ah, a new one: "-8181". I didn't have this ssl error before ;)
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10:22:19 * Mic is now known as bp
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10:25:23 * ChanServ sets mode +h bp 
10:25:34 <bp> Ah, grouped nicknames are nice :)
10:26:04 <bp> The color is definitely better but is it worth it? ;)
10:26:52 <flo> bp: the nick is also shorted
10:27:00 <flo> but Mi<tab> doesn't complete to bp :-S
10:27:22 <flo> s/shorted/shorter/
10:28:37 <bp> If people weren't used to Mic I wouldn't care to use something else. It's just a name abbreviated from an old screenname I had in computer games many years ago.
10:28:45 <bp> *wouldn't mind
10:28:48 <aleth> or from an oil company?
10:29:02 <flo> it's too bad sonny isn't here when I have a question to ask about the XMPP specification
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10:29:32 <bp> !seen sonny
10:29:33 <instantbot> I've never seen a 'sonny', sorry.
10:30:20 <flo> bp: he's more often visible in my contact list on XMPP than on IRC here ;)
10:30:42 <bp> hmm, was there an extra n in his name?
10:30:47 <bp> !seen sonnny
10:30:48 <instantbot> I've never seen a 'sonnny', sorry.
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10:32:11 <Guido> 11:14:34 - Guido: hello
10:32:11 <Guido> 11:14:34 - Guido: i just made a youtube account and saw that you can ad friends.
10:32:11 <Guido> 11:14:34 - Guido: what is teh function of the friends? can i write with them? if yes, can i integreat it inti instantbird […]
10:33:37 <bp> No idea, maybe Youtube has an FAQ and you can look around and see if there's a way to message them.
10:34:03 <bp> You certainly can't include it if they don't use a standard method like XMPP.
10:37:08 <bp> And if it is only "private messages" (and not a proper chat) then it is even questionable if it's good to create a chat protocol for it.
10:37:42 <bp> Facebook blocked people from sending private messages if they used it too excessively (no longer since they changed their system).
10:38:05 <bp> (just to give a point why it wouldn't be good in such a case)
10:38:05 <flo> unless you have friends talking to you through this "network", which requires you to keep a specific webpage open, there's no need to care about it :)
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10:39:44 <bp> Facebook chat is so unreliable :(
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10:40:33 <bp> I chatted with someone an a few but not all of his answers ended as private messages in FB while some where sent to Instantbird.
10:40:40 <bp> There was no obvious pattern to it :(
10:41:01 <flo> this happened to me several times too
10:44:34 <flo> ah, I found what I was looking for :)
10:45:59 <flo> the XMPP book I have says "Each party now addresses stanzas to the full JID of the other party when sending subsequent messages, until and unless receiving a presence change from the other party (which might trigger resending a message to the bare JID)."
10:46:05 <flo> this is exactly the libpurple behavior
10:46:07 <flo> which I dislike
10:46:51 <flo> however, the specification doesn't say "until and unless receiving a presence change from the other party" but "unless the sender has knowledge (via presence) that the intended recipient's resource is no longer available."
10:47:30 <flo> http://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc3921.html#rfc.section.4.1
10:47:38 <flo> this is the behavior I wanted to implement :)
10:48:35 <flo> no more sending to my phone when it goes from extended away to away, while my laptop was available anyway :)
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11:16:34 <flo> presence stanza received from my android phone contain " <caps:c xmlns="http://jabber.org/protocol/caps" node="http://www.android.com/gtalk/client/caps" ext="pmuc-v1" ver="1.1"/>" I wonder if we should use that to show the "mobile" icon
11:17:04 <flo> it sounds like having XMPP in JS will be an opportunity to scratch lots of itches :)
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11:25:18 <clokep> I was thinking that too. :)
11:26:45 <clokep> P.S. My comments on bug 1171 are on from going through the first half of the code.
11:26:49 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1171 nor, --, ---, florian, ASSI, Replace the current binary XMPP plugin with a JS implementation
11:27:12 <flo> clokep: hello :)
11:27:20 <clokep> Good morning.
11:27:36 <flo> I wanted to spend some time looking at JS-IRC yesterday evening, but that bug about JS warnings took all my reviewing time :(
11:28:48 <clokep> :(
11:28:55 <clokep> Should I upload a newer patch now?
11:29:15 <flo> if you have something interesting, why not?
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11:34:14 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 1040 on bug 1182.
11:34:16 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1182 nor, --, 1.2, nobody, NEW, "Reference to undefined property" JS warnings
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11:41:05 <clokep> flo: I uploaded a new one, it's not dramatically different, but if you have comments it will keep me from having to map the files you're talking about to the files I have. :)
11:41:16 <flo> :)
11:45:38 <clokep> I'm sure you'll have lots of comments. :-X
11:48:12 <clokep> Bah I wish I wasn't CCed on bug 1182. ;)
11:48:15 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1182 nor, --, 1.2, nobody, NEW, "Reference to undefined property" JS warnings
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11:48:53 <bp> clokep: me too, lots of bugspam :D
11:48:57 <bp> *neither
11:49:20 <aleth> Yes, it's a machine for turning spam in the error console into spam in the email box
11:49:40 <bp> does the bugs-mailing list work by the way? I signed up there and haven't received any email yet. What is supposed to be sent there?
11:52:45 <flo> bp: everything
11:53:07 <clokep> bp: It used to work fine for me. Is it going into your spam?
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11:55:53 <bp> Ah! The rule to automatically sort my mails was wrong :)
11:56:13 <bp> They didn't end up in the spam but in the other Bugzilla folder I have
11:56:32 <clokep> Ah--ha.
11:56:46 <clokep> Lots of Bugzilla folders? ;)
11:57:22 <bp> Yes :)
11:57:32 <flo> aleth: you included twice nsContentPrefService.js:140 in your summary ;)
11:57:47 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 1042 on bug 1182.
11:57:49 <bp> One for Mozilla, one for Instantbird CC/reporter mails and now a "Instantbird All Bugs" junk folder ;)
11:57:50 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1182 nor, --, 1.2, nobody, NEW, "Reference to undefined property" JS warnings
11:58:28 <aleth> flo: Yes :( noticed immediately after pressing 'send' of course
11:59:37 <flo> "A default value is cheaper than an if clause." how do you know that? :)
11:59:50 <flo> or is it cheaper in the "less typing" sense?
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12:01:09 <aleth> Cheaper in that if... would be executed every time the timeout was reset, rather than the default value which only needs to be set once. Is that wrong? ;)
12:02:11 <flo> the test would be executed only if the user touches that feature
12:02:24 <flo> the default value is added and stored in memory all the time / at startup
12:04:04 <flo> (but you can argue the test would be stored in memory too anyway, as the whole code is in memory) 
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12:10:11 <aleth> Right. And like in languages like lisp, JS has no real code/data distinction, true?
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12:49:49 <aleth> bp: Been trying Scroll Keys. I like what it does when the textbox is empty! But it breaks up/down for editing purposes when it isn't, which is really annoying.
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13:07:27 <bp> aleth: I know .. this is a real showstopper :(
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13:19:55 <bp> Unfortunately I haven't found an acceptable solution to this problem. One thing I could still try is copying the content to a div (or something similiar) with all properties the same as in the textbox (width, styling, font, font-size, ..) and calculate height/lineHeight.
13:21:40 <bp> If that really counts as "acceptable solution" is a different question, though ;)
13:22:28 <aleth> Have you tried https://developer.mozilla.org/en/XUL/Attribute/placeholder?
13:23:24 <aleth> Though I don't know why checking for the value fails for you
13:24:53 <bp> Checking for which value? And what do placeholders have to do with it?
13:29:08 <aleth> I thought you meant you had trouble passing on up/down when the textbox is not empty
13:30:00 <aleth> But maybe it's only because you still want them to scroll as long as there is only one line of text in the textbox? 
13:33:42 <bp> Yes, exactly
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13:38:20 <aleth> Personally I think I would prefer if they didn't.
13:41:22 <bp> Page up/down do they same already and I'm not sure if the uploaded version even tries to handle home/end
13:42:00 <bp> I think I wasn't able to call the commands used for scrolling to top or bottom iirc.
13:42:18 <aleth> Well, you can after my patch lands ;)
13:46:13 <bp> Even section-wise then :)
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13:50:30 <clokep_work> Would it make sense to add a "section" each time you get pinged?
13:50:38 <clokep_work> So you could quickly jump between pings?
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14:10:07 <bp> Good idea, could be worth to try how that 'feels'
14:10:53 <flo> what about subsections?
14:11:10 <flo> sections would be navigated with home/end, and subsection with page up/down?
14:12:38 <bp> What about ctrl+home/end for the sections? And only home/end for subsection?
14:13:06 <clokep_work> What is a "section" vs a "subsection"?
14:13:30 <bp> I interpreted it as pings = subsection while context vs new are sections
14:13:45 <flo> bp: that's what I had in mind
14:14:04 <flo> but I'm basically just thinking out loud
14:14:12 <clokep_work> flo: Entirely unrelated to this conversation, but for JS-XMPP (and I presume JS-IRC): we'll want to change some of the protocol options...do we have some way to "migrate" those options, or are we not going to worry about that. :(
14:14:21 <flo> in the future I would like a way to navigate between search results (which are mostly equivalent to pings)
14:14:39 <bp> The key mapping I described was with the similarity of home and ctrl+home behaviour of my editor(s)
14:14:49 <flo> clokep_work: we can read the values of the old options without exposing these preferences any more
14:15:00 <clokep_work> bp: flo Ah, OK. That makes sense. :) I guess you might want to jump directly to the end of context even if there are pings between.
14:15:02 <bp> While home only jumps to the beginning of a line (=smaller jump), ctrl+home jumps to the beginning of the document there
14:15:34 <clokep_work> flo: And presumably write them into our format? OK, just wasn't sure we had thought of this yet.
14:16:03 <flo> if it's important, yes write the new preference values
14:22:18 <clokep_work> OK. :)
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14:27:48 <bp> Hi ecaron
14:28:55 <ecaron> Hi bp
14:29:15 <bp> I'm Mic with a different nick by the way.
14:30:44 <ecaron> Oooo, tricky
14:31:16 <XaviorPenguin> Hey clokep_work, just so you know, I got IRC working and Twitter working in Instantbird and am loving it, but just so you know is all
14:33:16 <ecaron> Just being social, bp/Mic, or can I be of service?
14:33:42 <clokep_work> XaviorPenguin: Great! I saw your tweet earlier. :) Glad you like it.
14:33:54 <bp> I wanted to ask about Facebook. There seem to be some groups/company pages about Instantbird and they seem out of date
14:34:38 <bp> Should we post updates there from time to time or leave it be?
14:34:42 <ecaron> I think flo is the sole admin of all of those, though I'd love access there too.
14:34:48 <XaviorPenguin> Ok, I am done, I didn't want to bother ya since you have _work at the end of your name, just thought I would tell ya about it
14:34:59 <ecaron> They definitely should be nurtured/promoted
14:35:22 <ecaron> Honestly, I think leveraging the FB page as a "community support" platform would be a really good idea.
14:35:36 <bp> I don't mean anything really time-consuming, only like "Instantbird 1.1 has been release, we have great new features like ..."
14:35:49 <ecaron> Bugzilla is too intimidating, Zendesk ain't cheap, and uservoice/getsatisfaction aren't really community building solutions.
14:35:52 <bp> Maybe upload a current screenshot, too
14:37:43 <flo> ecaron: I don't know who owns https://www.facebook.com/Instantbird
14:37:51 <ecaron> GTFO!
14:38:31 <flo> ecaron: I'm admin of https://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=9091979396, which has been created by goulagman
14:39:45 <ecaron> flo: Think goulagman created the page too?
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14:40:07 <ecaron> I'll start the process of figuring out who made it and sharing control of it.
14:40:08 <flo> is there any way to know who owns that?
14:40:33 <flo> I don't see any contact link
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14:41:40 <flo> I assume if I was the owner and had just forgotten about it, there would be some editable fields on that "profile" page
14:42:49 <flo> there's also https://www.facebook.com/pages/Instantbird/234517256601954 which seems automatically generated from Wikipedia
14:53:22 <bp> Any objections that I post this on the company page: "I wonder if this page is official or created a page by a fan or contributor? If anyone knows I'd be glad if he or she would contact me! :)"
14:55:56 <bp> I could still say "Good idea!" if someone suggests that I should ask in their IRC channel ;)
14:57:30 <clokep_work> You might try contacting Facebook also.
14:58:34 <flo> and what do we tell them? :)
14:59:07 <flo> that I want the page because I've a registered trademark (valid in France only) on that name and logo?
14:59:57 <bp> bbl
15:00:05 <clokep_work> Maybe? :P
15:00:11 <clokep_work> I don't know. :(
15:00:29 <bp> I'd say save that for later.
15:02:35 <clokep_work> I'd start with more of "Hey, I'm the developer of Instantbird and I'd love to be able to use this page to easily connect with our users! Is there any way you can get me in touch with the administrator?"
15:02:41 <clokep_work> Make it sounds like Facebook is good. ;)
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15:39:49 <flo> it annoys me that when we have a JS error somewhere, the error reported in the account manager is "XML Parsing Error: Location: about:blank" :-S
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15:49:29 <bp> clokep_work: there's a posting on PMO how to speed up compiling Thunderbird. Maybe it contains something that can be used for IB too?
15:49:45 <bp> That was on Windows btw ;)
15:49:46 <bp> http://mikeconley.ca/blog/2011/11/30/build-thunderbird-faster-on-windows/
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15:52:47 <clokep_work> bp: Thanks. :)
15:52:52 <flo> bp: all that seems to be saying "use pymake"
15:53:02 <bp> Do we?
15:53:17 <flo> we don't do it currently
15:53:23 <flo> but I think each developer can do it
15:53:36 <flo> (if there are things in our build system that break with pymake, we should/can fix them)
15:53:55 <clokep_work> flo: I had tried to build with pymake once but it broke. :( This was a long time ago though.
15:54:05 <clokep_work> I think they've fixed a lot of stuff in it.
15:54:15 <clokep_work> (Also pymake is the only way to use multiple cores on Windows...fyi.)
15:54:53 <flo> why isn't it automatically the default?
15:55:09 <clokep_work> I don't know.
15:58:08 <clokep_work> flo: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=593585
15:59:32 <clokep_work> Although that seems to be on buildbot.
15:59:54 <clokep_work> Idk why they don't just alias make to pymake if that was your question.
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16:51:02 <clokep_work> flo: Did we ever decide about landing the JS-XMPP as prpl-xmppjs vs. prpl-xmpp?
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20:18:22 <flo> clokep_work: I think we decided prpl-xmpp
20:18:31 <flo> although I had another idea today
20:18:48 <flo> maybe we could land it as prpl-gtalk and prpl-facebook, and keep libpurple for XMPP for now
20:19:16 <Mook_as> <bikeshed>prpl-jsxmpp</bikeshed>
20:19:22 <Mook_as> I'll shut up and go have lunch now :p
20:19:25 <flo> the rationale is that for both gtalk and facebook it's easy to hard code the connect server to work around the lack of DNS SRV.
20:19:48 <flo> but for general XMPP... we basically have a broken implementation until we can support DNS SRV
20:23:04 <aleth> prpl-js-xmpp? ;)
20:23:14 <aleth> any luck with getting your patch accepted?
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20:27:02 <flo> a patch appeared in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=704866 for your Mac top crasher
20:27:13 <flo> I'm wondering if we should apply it immediately for our nightlies
20:32:50 <flo> s/your/our/
20:33:17 * flo decided "no"
20:33:31 <flo> we don't have enough crash reports on nightlies for it to make any difference
20:33:48 <flo> we can wait a few days and see what happens with that patch in Firefox
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21:04:23 <clokep_work> flo: Ah, that's a good idea! :)
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22:38:48 <flo> Good night!
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23:20:46 <XaviorPenguin> Just so you know, the -P works, I was able to choose my profile that I have shared on a partition and all is working just fine with that
23:29:28 <XaviorPenguin> my only suggestion is to actually make it to where you can actually put the profile in the command line like ./instantbird -P /path/to/profile
23:29:42 <XaviorPenguin> other than that, this is working a heck of a lot better than pidgin
23:30:50 <Novarg> iirc, you can use -profile /path/to/profile
23:34:03 <Mook_as> yeah; -P was to hopefully make it so that you don't need to keep doing that in the future
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23:34:20 <Mook_as> (since you can set it to never ask... also, no point asking if was going to be your only profile)
23:34:28 <Mook_as> -profile doesn't get remembered
23:35:06 <aleth> -P profilename also works (skips the manager)
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23:58:52 <XaviorPenguin> oh, rock on
23:59:01 <XaviorPenguin> I guess I didn't read -help clearly