#instantbird log on 11 18 2011

All times are UTC.

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00:00:42 <clokep> flo: I feel fine about that, but Mook_as is eviler and should look at it.
00:01:24 <flo> can you also inspect the .hasOwnProperty calls of jsProtoHelper?
00:01:38 <aleth> Beats messing around with : 's :)
00:02:13 <Mook_as> yeah, that looks okay
00:02:16 <Mook_as> but add a comment
00:02:43 <flo> the cases in jsProtoHelper seem fine to me
00:03:15 <flo> (= only a stupid prpl author calling an account specific pref or protocol specific command "hasOwnProperty" could cause problems
00:03:18 <clokep> flo: I agree they look good.
00:03:41 <flo> and I would argue that it's the plugin authors' problem in that case
00:03:50 <Mook_as> ForwardProtocolPrototype.base can probably be a lazy getter, instead (but no need to fix it now)
00:04:48 <Mook_as> everything else looks pretty much fine, I think. they're unlikely to be from untrusted sources.
00:04:48 <flo> twitter seems to have 3 concerning cases
00:05:18 <clokep> My IRC code definitely has concerning cases. :(
00:05:35 <Mook_as> for proto helper / themes, it _might_ be useful to do a check once and reject loading it if it looks evil, but that's really optional
00:05:37 <flo> Mook_as: that would just save the if (!this.hasOwnProperty("_base")) test a few times
00:05:52 <Mook_as> flo: yeah. but style nits are style nits :p
00:06:21 <flo> Mook_as: we could also just get rid of the getter, and initialize this.base in the constructor
00:06:28 <flo> err, _init method
00:06:49 * Mook_as wonders about group.xml/addContact. probably safe.
00:07:04 <flo> clokep: your IRC code hasn't been r+ed by me yet, so I don't feel bad about these cases yet :)
00:07:41 <clokep> :) The XMPP code might too.
00:07:43 <flo> Mook_as: in group.xml, it plays with contactIds, so the content is only ints, probably won't hurt :)
00:07:53 <Mook_as> hah, okay :)
00:08:06 * Mook_as doesn't know the code, he's just smelling it
00:08:11 <flo> clokep: well, the XMPP code... ^^' --> tomorrow :-D
00:08:21 <clokep> :) OK.
00:15:13 <flo> Object.prototype.hasOwnProperty.call is a bit long to type
00:15:24 <flo> can I export it from imXPCOMUtils? :-D
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00:16:38 topic changed by gravel.mozilla.org to "Ask questions about Instantbird (http://www.instantbird.com) here|Get Instantbird 1.1 while it's hot! :) |News: http://blog.instantbird.org/ |Nightlies: http://nightly.instantbird.im/ (testing purpose only) |IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/ |Pastebin: http://pastebin.instantbird.org/"
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00:17:24 <clokep> Please do. :)
00:18:16 <flo> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/1086
00:18:27 <Mook_as> Components.utils.import("resource://gre/modules/XPCOMUtils.jsm", {}).XPCOMUtils.hasOwnProperty = function(obj, prop) Object.prototype.hasOwnProperty.call(obj, prop);
00:18:46 <Mook_as> ... oh right, that exists already
00:18:55 <clokep> Looks good.
00:19:10 * Mook_as is wary of adding things to the global scope
00:19:47 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm cleared the Attachment Flags 'review?(florian@instantbird .org)' from bug 1169.
00:19:48 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm set the Attachment Flags field on bug 1169 to review?(florian@instantbird .org).
00:19:49 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1169 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Make tab completion smarter
00:20:10 <flo> Mook_as: hmm, can it conflict with the hasOwnProperty method of the global object?
00:20:14 <Mook_as> too bad Object.hasOwnProperty already exists (from Object.__proto__ === Object.prototype)
00:20:24 <Mook_as> flo: huh, it might!
00:20:56 <flo> hmm, do we care?
00:21:09 <Mook_as> that frequently means |window|, doesn't it?
00:21:11 <Mook_as> so we _might_
00:21:56 <clokep> Do we ever import imXPCOMUtils into a window?
00:21:58 <flo> hmm, importing imXPCOMUtils.jsm in a window is probably not a good idea anyway
00:22:01 <clokep> I think it's always in modules.
00:22:12 * Mook_as likes it for generateQI :(
00:22:14 <flo> it's for modules and xpcom compoents
00:22:20 <flo> and bootstrapped add-ons
00:22:32 <flo> Mook_as: we have ClassInfo, better than generateQI
00:22:42 <flo> and you can still import the mozilla XPCOMUtils.jsm
00:22:52 <Mook_as> ah, true
00:23:10 <flo> imXPCOMUtils was designed to emulate things that JS programmers are used to having in windows, and miss in XPCOM components (setTimeout, ...)
00:23:14 <Mook_as> so it's _probably_ okay
00:23:21 <flo> I miss executeSoon in windows though :-D
00:23:36 <Mook_as> and clobbering setTimeout might have been a bad idea anyway
00:24:02 <Mook_as> flo: you can always var {executeSoon} = Cu.import("...imXPCOMUtils.jsm", {}) :p
00:24:28 <flo> uh
00:24:47 <Mook_as> (sorry, was that too crazy for you?)_
00:25:48 <flo> I didn't know the ... syntax :-P
00:26:32 <Mook_as> that was just me being lazy, it's in a string you can fix :p
00:26:37 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org changed the Attachment Flags on bug 1169 from review?(florian@instantbird .org) to review+.
00:26:41 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1169 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Make tab completion smarter
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00:37:40 <flo> this is what I'm ready to commit: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/1089
00:38:08 <flo> (if anybody wants to verify that it isn't more stupid than the current situation)
00:40:15 <Mook_as> flo: so, yeah, I think somebody managed to break all the cz-using users in #chatzilla. _whatever_ you do, it's less silly than that :p
00:40:41 <clokep> Mook_as: "somebody"? ;)
00:40:48 <Mook_as> it wasn't me!
00:41:02 <Mook_as> (that's why I was surprised)
00:41:18 <flo> what did that person do?
00:41:42 <Mook_as> joined with __proto__ as the nick, I think
00:41:49 <Mook_as> and yeah, the patch looks fine
00:42:15 <Mook_as> ... please don't do that now? :p
00:42:31 <flo> I'm not EionRob :-P
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00:43:02 <clokep> But it got you to use Instantbird it seems? I assume that's the ib on the end of Mook_as in #chatzilla?
00:43:14 <Mook_as> clokep: yeah, I'm not.. risking that again
00:43:39 <Mook_as> my suffix keeps growing :|
00:43:44 <flo> you mean, not risking someone entering with hasOwnProperty? :-P
00:44:07 <clokep> We can wage war on #chatzill anow. ;)
00:49:04 * Mook_as frowns at EionRobb
00:49:09 <EionRobb> oops
00:49:25 <EionRobb> I just registered it so no one else should be able to use it
00:49:58 <Mook_as> well, you'd have a small window between getting on the server and getting kicked (so you can /nickserv identify), I think
00:50:03 <Mook_as> and... that's probably enough to hurt
00:50:52 <EionRobb> does it affect IMs too?
00:51:21 <flo> no
00:51:28 <flo> it's only the participant list that breaks
00:51:51 <flo> but as it throws an exception, it prevents some code from being executed
00:52:17 <flo> can we get some nicks banned from the whole IRC network if we contact the IRC ops?
00:52:35 <Mook_as> maybe? ask!
00:53:01 <EionRobb> from every irc server ever?
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00:53:24 <flo> EionRobb: I only really care about irc.mozilla.org (and a very little bit about freenode)
00:56:18 <instantbot> florian NOSPAM instantbird.org granted review for attachment 1005 on bug 1169.
00:56:20 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1169 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Make tab completion smarter
00:56:33 <Morian> (just a test)
00:57:54 <EionRobb> does it work with nicks who have invalid characters for a javascript key?
00:58:04 <EionRobb> like a - ?
00:58:21 <flo> why not?
00:58:21 <Mook_as> there are invalid characters? :p
00:58:37 <Mook_as> (it's invalid for a JS identifier, but for a key...)
00:58:55 <clokep> I think that bug is the fastest anyone has ever fixed a bug I filed. :P
00:59:51 <flo> Mook_as: so we can no longer see 703423? I wish I CC'ed myself a few minutes ago ;)
01:00:07 <Mook_as> flo: blame callek :p
01:00:35 <clokep> It was a dup anyway though?
01:00:43 <flo> yeah...
01:00:59 <flo> already public for 2 years and a half
01:02:47 <clokep> flo: I added some defines to redefine the functions and my SIPE compile finished. Should be able to test it this weekend now. :)
01:02:50 <clokep> Thanks for the help.
01:02:57 <clokep> (I wanted to test last weekend since I had a three day weekend. ;))
01:02:59 <flo> were these functions really different?
01:03:06 <clokep> Some of them were.
01:03:13 <clokep> "really" different.
01:03:18 <clokep> Well...Idk about that
01:03:58 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 1172 to FIXED.
01:04:00 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1172 nor, --, 1.2, nobody, RESO FIXED, Change error message for mismatching id's of a protocol
01:05:28 <flo> is anybody here making a log of #chatzilla? The discussion seems interesting, but I'd really like to go to bed
01:05:37 <clokep> flo: I am.
01:05:42 * clokep is always in #chatzilla.
01:08:01 <clokep> I'll email you the log when I go to bed.
01:08:24 <flo> thanks :)
01:08:35 <clokep> No problem.
01:08:43 <clokep> I wish most channels were publicly logged. :(
01:10:02 <flo> I wish instantbird instances were smart enough to trade logs with their trusted peers so that we get a log coverage around the clock without central log server
01:10:19 <flo> or without trusted peers would be even better
01:10:38 <flo> just collect log hashes from enough different peers to ensure you got the correct thing
01:10:47 <clokep> did we discuss that at one point?
01:10:50 <clokep> *didn't
01:11:08 <flo> would be hard to find a canonical way to create the hashes though, as the little variations in timestamps caused by network lags shouldn't make the hash invalid
01:12:39 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 1169 to FIXED.
01:12:41 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1169 enh, --, 1.2, aletheia2, RESO FIXED, Make tab completion smarter
01:12:42 <flo> I didn't expect that bug to be fixed so quickly :)
01:13:37 <flo> Good night
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01:13:55 * Mook_as imagines just lines being out of order will make it worse
01:16:40 <clokep> I always want to type instantbird.bugzilla.org instead of bugzilla.instantbird.org. :(
01:16:44 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/4a7547100281 - Florian Quèze - Avoid issues with the hasOwnProperty nickname.
01:16:45 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/b6e0a30d6b95 - aleth - Bug 1169 - Make tab completion favor active nicks, r=fqueze.
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02:03:16 <clokep> Are you still not picking up patches instantbot?
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06:01:18 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1173 filed by klx211@gmail.com.
06:01:20 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1173 maj, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Input method doesn't work in the typing area
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07:59:58 <Mic> Good morning.
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08:11:21 topic changed by gravel.mozilla.org to "Ask questions about Instantbird (http://www.instantbird.com) here|Get Instantbird 1.1 while it's hot! :) |News: http://blog.instantbird.org/ |Nightlies: http://nightly.instantbird.im/ (testing purpose only) |IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/ |Pastebin: http://pastebin.instantbird.org/"
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09:13:10 <flo> hello :)
09:18:21 <Mic> Hi flo
09:18:28 <MadWookiee> hello flo
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09:29:06 <Mic> My own nick isn't really important to me with respect to completion btw. In case you haven't discussed that already.. I only skimmed through yesterday's log.
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09:33:22 <flo> Mic: is it unimportant enough to be worth adding a special case for it?
09:34:30 <Mic> I think it shouldn't block completing another nick.
09:35:06 <Mic> No idea if this case is common and important enough to be worth it
09:37:10 <Mic> I just encountered it and noticed that I didn't like it so you can say it would have been important enough for me, but I meant more in general.. for others so to say
09:42:06 <flo> feel free to file a bug then
09:42:41 <flo> if aleth (or someone else) is interested in handling this case and provides a reasonably simple patch, I'll accept the change :)
09:43:40 <flo> also, the better we are with the completion, the more picky we become with it. 6 months ago we had no completion at all and could live without it ;).
09:45:28 <Mic> The grey, overwritable completion, that I read about in the log, really works well in my head btw ;)
09:47:51 <flo> hmm, if we just write the text in grey rather than selecting it, how is it obvious that it will be overwritable?
09:49:06 <flo> restartless installation of dictionaries + auto-detecting the language of a conversation would also be super helpful
09:50:24 <flo> uh, Show Nick isn't restartless :-S
09:50:47 <Mic> Overlays have the advantage that they always work.
09:51:11 <flo> what do you mean?
09:51:30 <flo> is this related to the completion or the unrestarlessness of an old add-on? :)
09:51:45 <Mic> There's still the case with detaching/moving a conversation into a new window that isn't possible to catch.
09:52:27 <Mic> I'm not sure if I ever filed this bug
09:52:31 <flo> I don't see why it wouldn't be possible
09:52:37 <flo> it's just more complicated
09:53:08 <flo> but yeah, if you think we should make it easy, file a bug :)
09:56:45 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1174 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
09:56:48 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1174 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Own nickname shouldn't block completion of another
10:01:40 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1175 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
10:01:42 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1175 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Not possible to notice when a conversation is moved to a new window
10:02:18 <Mic> The bold claim that it is "not possible" was intentional
10:02:31 <flo> for it to be resolved as INVALID? ;)
10:03:08 <Mic> If the closing comment states: invalid since you could always do this <code>blablab</code> then yes :P
10:03:13 <flo> I'm not sure add-ons want to know about conversations moved to a new window by the way
10:03:38 <flo> they probably want some kind of more simple/useful notification that they could use for something regardless of how the conversation area has been initialized
10:03:47 <Mic> If it could be avoided then it would be great
10:04:09 <flo> Mic: you could definitely override some methods of instantbird.js or tabbrowser.xml to be informed of the event
10:04:56 <flo> I also wonder if in the future displaying a detached conversation and restoring a conversation that was on hold shouldn't use the same path
10:06:55 <Mic> douglaswth: is input history working with the nightlies? If yes, could you bump the compatibility on AIO? That would be great :)
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11:22:30 * flo can now connect to Facebook
11:26:53 <clokep> :) Was it a bug in the MD5 hash algorithm?
11:27:26 <flo> nsIScriptableUnicodeConverter was causing a problem when encoding a binary "string" rather than a real string
11:27:41 <flo> I replaced it with an nsIStringInputStream and problem gone
11:28:00 <flo> the relevant change is: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/1090
11:28:13 <flo> of course, it took me hours to understand what was going on...
11:28:23 <flo> I dislike handling of binary data in JS strings :(
11:28:30 <flo> clokep: by the way, thanks for the log! :)
11:29:53 <clokep> Yeah, it's a huge PITA.
11:30:18 <clokep> You're welcome. :)
11:30:40 <clokep> flo: Why not use byteArrays for it?
11:31:08 <flo> how would you write this?
11:31:39 <clokep> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/modules/socket.jsm#308 uses them
11:32:25 <clokep> Not sure if it's actually useful or not hough.
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11:38:49 <Guido> instantbird is running more stabel, than seamonkey :-)
11:43:49 <clokep> Oh, I don't know about that. I crash every time I use it. ;)
11:44:04 <flo> so arraybuffers are basically undocumented?
11:44:19 <flo> there are lots of MDC pages, but none of them explain how one is supposed to set data in them
11:45:08 <clokep> flo: I assume you read https://developer.mozilla.org/en/JavaScript_typed_arrays ?
11:46:01 <flo> if the only way to fill it in with data is to do it byte by byte... it's not really a good idea ;)
11:46:03 <clokep> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/JavaScript_typed_arrays/DataView#Write but you have to do it one by one.
11:46:15 <clokep> Well if you do a 64-bit view, you can do it 8 bytes at a time! :P
11:46:29 <flo> so where is the set method that your example uses documented?
11:46:40 <flo> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/modules/socket.jsm#321
11:47:11 <clokep> flo: I believe an ArrayBuffer is just an array internally?
11:47:18 <clokep> Wait.
11:47:20 <clokep> That doesn't make sense.
11:48:01 <clokep> No idea. :-/
11:48:32 <flo> http://www.khronos.org/registry/typedarray/specs/latest/#6 is just a tiny little bit more helpful if you skip to the "Methods" section
11:48:35 <clokep> flo: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/JavaScript_typed_arrays/Int8Array#set%28%29
11:48:57 <clokep> I believe it's that method.
11:49:39 <flo> so it needs to already be an array for anything to work
11:49:53 * flo will revert to using nsIStringStream
11:50:40 <clokep> Yes, I suppose so. What is the data you have already? A string of unknown encoding?
11:50:54 <flo> a JS string containing binary data
11:57:42 <flo> hmm, the next thing I should probably fix in JS-XMPP is the interactions with the contact list
11:57:56 <clokep> Right so you'd need to get the binary data in the string anyway...using an input stream just like you are probably.
11:58:48 <flo> I could probably get a JS array doing something like [string.charCodeAt(i)) for (i in string)]
11:59:11 <flo> hmm, I wonder if that could work directly
11:59:34 <clokep> You could do that too, not sure which is faster.
11:59:40 <clokep> (That's how I tested it btw.
12:00:26 <flo> it works
12:00:52 <flo> so now I'm just doing:   let data = [aString.charCodeAt(i) for (i in aString)];  ch.update(data, data.length);
12:02:29 <clokep> Cool.
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12:55:29 <Mic> What happened in #chatzilla yesterday? Someone joined with a bad nickname and it broke their client?
12:55:34 <Mic> Who was that?
12:56:00 <clokep_work> One of the users that's always in #chatzilla.
12:57:11 <Mic> Let's hope they're going to fix that
12:57:15 <clokep_work> Mardeg I think?
13:00:02 <flo> Mic: well, at least we fixed Instantbird ;)
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13:04:11 <Mic> Making sure I have the most recent nightly :)
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13:32:11 <clokep_work> flo: Do we have like a list of networks we wish to test JS-XMPP against or do we assume GTalk + Facebook is "enough"? ;)
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13:32:17 <clokep_work> I'm not sure whta the "big" XMPP networks are.
13:32:54 <flo> no list (yet)
13:33:07 <flo> and I think "works ok with gtalk and facebook" is "enough" to land in nightlies
13:33:27 <flo> and then our nightly testers are probably going to file bugs for the cases we broke :)
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13:35:54 <clokep_work> OK. :)
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13:37:32 <clokep_work> http://xmpp.org/resources/public-services/ might some place to start. ;)
13:38:13 <flo> without an automated way to test and check the result, I don't think we can handle such a large list ;)
13:38:47 <flo> rather than looking at the public services, it may be more interesting to look at how many server implementations are in the wild, and attempt to test a server for each of them
13:39:03 <clokep_work> Yeah, that makes more sense.
13:39:20 <clokep_work> So then http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_XMPP_server_software ? ;)
13:39:47 <flo> "only" 9 servers
13:39:53 <flo> but gtalk/facebook aren't listed ;)
13:40:28 <clokep_work> Plus who knows what other social networks use (i.e. LJ Talk, the German networks Mic uses, etc.)
13:40:36 <clokep_work> I wouldn't be surprised if many of them are home grown servers.
13:42:31 <clokep_work> Also the ones that supports certs vs. StartSSL, etc.
13:43:08 <flo> don't depress me now, I still have a lot of code to review/fix :-|
13:43:30 <clokep_work> Sory. :(
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15:01:22 <aleth> flo: I think jabber.org is considered the "original" xmpp server
15:01:32 <aleth> for what it's worth...
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15:15:06 <clokep_work> aleth: That was also the one I was thinking of. But not sure if it's actually the "biggest" or anything.
15:15:23 <flo> it just has a beautiful name :-)
15:15:39 <flo> we could also setup something on instantbird.im and decide it's the important one :-P
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15:24:44 <aleth> re bug 1174, is there an easy way to get the user's current nick (could be the IRC alias in some circs) from the account object?
15:24:50 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1174 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Own nickname shouldn't block completion of another
15:31:00 <flo> can it really be the alias?
15:31:20 <flo> would any of you be interested in hacking on the JS XMPP code?
15:31:34 <flo> the cleanup/review part is tedious, but implementing the missing features may be fun
15:31:55 <flo> of course, it's better to wait that the cleanup is finished before adding more code in there
15:31:56 <aleth> That's another question - currently the IRC alias is used for the nick in the message bubble but not in the participant list, this mismatch is also a bug
15:32:24 <flo> but if you would like to play in that code, maybe I should push it into nightlies asap even without reaching feature parity with the current libpurple plugin
15:32:45 <flo> aleth: not really.
15:32:53 <flo> well, the "alias" behavior is poorly defined
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15:33:43 <aleth> It certainly causes bug 1159 and is a bit confusing at least
15:33:46 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1159 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Follow-up to bug 1112: names not matched when alias is set
15:34:33 <aleth> flo: interested yes, but unfortunately atm I don't have the time to take on more than occasional little bugfixes here and there
15:34:39 <flo> would anybody complain if we just removed that alias?
15:34:48 <aleth> Not me.
15:35:02 <aleth> But you have to ask the people who live on IRC ;)
15:35:27 <aleth> I never understood the distinction between nick and alias anyway
15:35:30 <flo> I can't reproduce bug 1159
15:35:40 <flo> or the alias is broken after bug 759
15:35:43 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759 min, --, ---, florian, ASSI, Reorganize purplexpcom
15:36:29 <aleth> As far as I recall, you have to set an alias, then restart IB (disconnect/connect is not enough)
15:37:17 <aleth> see bug 1158
15:37:20 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1158 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Alias changes not taking effect until after a restart
15:37:30 <aleth> But maybe you have fixed that in 759
15:37:53 <flo> that bug sounds like a regression caused by bug 759
15:37:56 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759 min, --, ---, florian, ASSI, Reorganize purplexpcom
15:38:51 <aleth> Anyway, it seems Mic uses alias, so he might be the one to ask about what they are good for ;)
15:39:36 <flo> I think I'll rewrite that code so that protocol plugins no longer see the alias when one is set
15:39:42 <flo> and to display it only in message themes
15:41:10 <aleth> I do think the nick in the participant list should match the one used in the message display though 
15:41:25 <aleth> Anything else is confusing
15:41:49 <flo> I think the nick in the participant list should match what others see
15:42:26 <aleth> I'm puzzled. Is the alias only for local use?
15:42:34 <flo> totally
15:42:41 <aleth> What is the point of that?
15:42:49 <flo> there is none
15:43:24 <aleth> Then I agree it should go altogether...
15:44:11 <flo> so, we should probably be using the global user display name instead, right?
15:44:18 <flo> and a bug has been filed on that already I think
15:44:48 <aleth> Maybe not the global one if the nick differs by account (IRC server)
15:45:29 <aleth> In IRC chats the one used should be the nick set on the server imho
15:45:56 <aleth> But I may be missing some subtleties about why these things like aliases were introduced in the first place...
15:46:31 <flo> I wrote that in 2007 because Pidgin did the exact same thing.
15:46:44 <flo> I've wished I'd ignored that part of the libpurple API for years since that ;)
15:47:12 <aleth> :)
15:47:21 <flo> but in some cases aliases are really useful
15:47:31 <flo> but I think these cases are actually bugs ;)
15:47:37 <aleth> uh?
15:47:39 <aleth> pinging clokep for how js-irc handles nicks etc
15:50:06 <flo> I should fix bug 1158 anyway
15:50:09 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1158 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Alias changes not taking effect until after a restart
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15:51:54 <flo> aleth: for bug 1159, just look at the code around http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content/conversation.xml#221
15:51:57 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1159 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Follow-up to bug 1112: names not matched when alias is set
15:52:33 <flo> except if I'm missing something, the fix is super obvious
15:53:13 <aleth> flo: yes, but I didn't want to remove the reference to the alias before checking what the desired alias behaviour was/is
15:53:27 <aleth> The bug itself is trivial
15:58:44 <aleth> If I remove the reference to the alias there, doesn't that in effect remove the alias "feature" altogether?
15:59:00 <flo> no
15:59:21 <flo> the important line for the alias feature to work is http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/modules/imThemes.jsm#443
15:59:50 <flo> hmm, wait
15:59:57 <aleth> oh yeah, it's not written back to the message in conversation.xml
16:00:14 <aleth> But I am still confused about what the desired behaviour is for aliases
16:00:23 <flo> I'm not sure of what this will do for incoming messages
16:00:34 <flo> if you added some IRC nicks in your contact list, and aliased the contacts
16:01:25 <aleth> So the desired behaviour is to use the alias when displaying messages, but not in the participant list?
16:01:30 <flo> do we display the aliases in the nicklist in that case?
16:01:45 <aleth> I don't think so, but haven't tested it
16:01:55 <flo> if so, you may want to display the user's alias in the nicklist too :-/
16:03:01 <aleth> I really don't understand this alias feature.
16:03:30 <flo> that's why it's broken
16:03:32 <aleth> Why rename other peoples nicks?
16:03:35 <flo> nobody can fully understand it
16:03:40 <aleth> Why have an alias for oneself that nobody ever sees?
16:04:38 <flo> because when you are talking to someone who uses "Jess !!!! :-D:-D:-D [c: fd jklfd! ç!fds" as her "friendly name", you would rather rename that to "Jess Smith" instead
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16:05:57 <aleth> I vaguely remember from pidgin that without aliases, you would get something like username@service.server.com
16:06:08 <aleth> Which of course is annoying.
16:06:12 <aleth> But IB doesn't do that.
16:06:29 <flo> on the protocols you use
16:06:45 <aleth> That was with Pidgin and XMPP
16:06:48 <flo> I'm not sure the behavior is correct everywhere
16:08:43 <aleth> I wonder what the most consistent implementation would be :(
16:09:11 <flo> I'm sure I'll have to think about it very soon, as the current JS-XMPP code just displays "You" all the time for outgoing messages
16:09:55 <aleth> Well that's ... never wrong I suppose ;)
16:10:14 <flo> It's very often wrong!
16:10:25 <flo> in 12 of our locales at least ;)
16:10:33 <aleth> Heh.
16:10:58 <aleth> Probably unlocalizeable too as gender-specific in some languages...
16:11:04 <aleth> ;)
16:11:44 <aleth> I will put off all those "treat user nick differently" type papercut bugs until the alias situation is more clear
16:12:13 <flo> heh
16:12:22 <flo> I often think about plural issues, but rarely about gender issues
16:12:38 <flo> (except if they are visible in French)
16:13:21 <aleth> Even in English, why doesn't it display "me" ;)
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17:04:59 <Guido> in the moment i don't get a conection to facebook
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17:08:59 <Guido> Have in the moment more users this problem?
17:10:06 <Guido> ah, conected
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18:12:12 <clokep_work> aleth: Just a heads up that I don't get pings unless you actually ping clokep_work on mibbit. ;)
18:12:19 <clokep_work> And what questions about how it handles nicks?
18:13:48 <clokep_work> Guido: Facebook servers are funky sometimes you need to give it some time.
18:14:19 <clokep_work> flo aleth Aliases make sense for other users (especailly if you want to alias an entire contact to one name), but for yourself it seems a little funky. :( I'd say just use the global one if one is set.
18:15:00 <Guido> yes, but this time it was a bit longer so i thought ther was something wrong
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18:41:38 <clokep_work> Yeah. Facebook, bleh.
18:42:14 <clokep_work> Btw flo I might be interested in helping out with the XMPP stuff. I think once it's at the point we won't break any profiles and basic functionality works...it should be landed so multiple people can hack on parts of it.
18:43:50 <Mook> gah, I need a good android IM client.
18:57:40 <clokep_work> Mook: Instantbird for Android? ;)
18:58:18 <Mook> doesn't exist yet, so it's not good :p
18:59:35 <aleth> clokep_work: Currently there is no difference between how the user and other speakers are handled in the conversation code. So if the possibility of alias-for-the-user is to be removed I suppose the place to do that would be the IRC account settings.
19:00:41 <clokep_work> aleth: I don't think it's part of the protocol.
19:00:50 <clokep_work> I think every protocl can have a local alias set.
19:00:57 <clokep_work> (I.e. it's not an IRC specific issue.)
19:01:29 <aleth> clokep_work: You're right. I just never noticed it before.
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19:02:00 <aleth> Well, seeing that it's there, the question is "should the nicklist display aliases where applicable"
19:03:10 <aleth> (for everyone that is - since why introduce a distinction that is not necessary)
19:03:25 <clokep_work> It doesn't make sense while pinging people though.
19:03:48 <aleth> That was my problem with aliases... they are local
19:04:44 <aleth> So to sum up, aliases only for the message display. I think flo tended towards that too.
19:04:59 <webfork> Don't want to interrupt the current convo but have a program question.
19:05:29 <aleth> Last question: Where is the user's nick stored in the account object? (I assume that's the place to get it)
19:05:37 <aleth> webfork: Just ask :)
19:05:54 <webfork> hijack, that is
19:05:57 <webfork> k, does anyone know how to get categories (e.g. Friends, Buddies, Work, etc.) back if you accidentally "X" them?
19:06:24 <clokep_work> aleth: "the user's nick"? Do you mean YOUR nick?
19:06:25 <aleth> Use the context menu
19:06:27 <webfork> Tags, I guess they're called
19:06:55 <aleth> webfork: The context menu on any tag allows you to pick which ones are visible
19:07:03 <webfork> right, that works to put them IN a category
19:07:05 <aleth> clokep_work: Yes
19:07:30 <clokep_work> aleth: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/components/public/imIAccount.idl#214
19:07:32 <webfork> but if you've zapped the category listing, it won't bring it back
19:07:54 <aleth> webfork: You should still have "Other contacts", right? Right-click on that
19:07:57 <webfork> yep
19:08:09 <webfork> yeah that did it -- thanks aleth
19:08:58 <aleth> I bet that was basically a case of bug 1096
19:09:01 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1096 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add "Visible tags..." entry to contacts window background context menu too
19:09:17 <aleth> clokep_work: Thanks!
19:09:54 <webfork> instantbot: yeah
19:09:57 <instantbot> webfork: Sorry, I've no idea what 'yeah' might be.
19:09:58 * instantbot kicks webfork in the shins
19:10:17 <webfork> yeah = that is the accurate portrayal of what i am talking about thank you for your input
19:10:25 <aleth> webfork: You can vote for the bug to make it more visible to the devs ;)
19:10:35 <webfork> koo
19:10:39 <aleth> or comment on it
19:10:57 <aleth> What I am trying to say is "Feel free to use bugzilla for enhancement requests"
19:10:58 <webfork> another bugzilla account
19:15:35 <clokep_work> Only if you want to comment. ;)
19:15:51 <webfork> nah, i've just had problems with submitting bugs to devs even on OSS projects
19:15:55 <webfork> they tend to take it as criticism
19:16:42 <clokep_work> We try to be rather open.
19:16:51 <Mook> and, hopefully, friendly :)
19:16:57 <clokep_work> But we try to get behind WHY the user is requesting something instead of just implementing exactly what is requested.
19:17:00 <clokep_work> If that makes sense?
19:17:15 <webfork> no, that's critical
19:17:16 <clokep_work> (E.g. is there something lacking that we can make better so xyz isn't even necessary.)
19:17:23 <clokep_work> Simplicity is important.
19:17:30 <clokep_work> "no, that's critical"?
19:17:31 <webfork> yeah i'm really tired of using Miranda for that reason
19:17:45 <webfork> its critical you understand the why rather than just make the fix
19:17:59 <clokep_work> Ah, OK. (I took the other meaning of critical in that sentence. :))
19:18:03 <clokep_work> Yes, we think it's important too!
19:18:14 <webfork> right -- shouldn't use "that" in IRC when a lot of ppl r talking
19:21:14 <aleth> Mook: With a lot of effort you could possibly compile IB with the Fennec mozilla? /hasnoideawhatheistalkingabout
19:21:39 <Mook> having seen the awesome performance it has, I'm thinking their native UI thing might be right
19:22:15 <Mook> use the ib backend (including JS protocols!) for the talk-to-servers part, and write a different front end
19:22:54 <Mook> I should _not_ have to wait 5 seconds for me IM app to start, so I can send a message and close it :p
19:23:25 <aleth> yeah, that's too long...
19:23:49 <aleth> I guess flo's recent reorg of the code might actually make that feasible if someone really wanted to do it
19:23:55 <clokep_work> Mook: flo has thought about this before btw.
19:24:02 <webfork> (Added a note to bug 1096)
19:24:06 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1096 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add "Visible tags..." entry to contacts window background context menu too
19:24:22 <Mook> clokep_work: I'm not surprised. pretty smart cookie there.
19:30:23 <aleth> clokep_work: How do I set an alias for a participant in a MUC?
19:31:56 <clokep_work> aleth: You can't.
19:34:59 <aleth> clokep_work: OK, just would have had to test it if it had been possible
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19:37:30 <clokep_work> aleth: Idk what happens if you add someone to the buddy list and add an alias.
19:37:33 <clokep_work> I think it doesn't "work".
19:40:29 <clokep_work> But yes, there's too many uses of "alias" and they're funky. :(
19:47:59 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 1007 on bug 1159.
19:48:01 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1159 min, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Follow-up to bug 1112: names not matched when alias is set
19:49:22 <aleth> Such a trivial fix once one is halfway certain it's the right thing to be doing ;)
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19:52:48 <clokep_work> aleth: At this rate you're going to own the conversation window soon. :P
19:54:39 <aleth> lol
19:54:41 <aleth>  might as well do the obvious followups ;)
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20:00:52 <clokep_work> Haha, yes. :)
20:03:09 <aleth> account.name seems to be in the form "nick@serverurl"... Surely the stripped nick is stored somewhere too?
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20:04:32 <clokep_work> "stripped nick"?
20:04:40 <aleth> Just the nick without the @...
20:05:18 <aleth> I mean, I can detach it, but then I am duplicating code and it might end up inconsistent
20:05:29 <clokep_work> aleth: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/components/public/purpleIConversation.idl#139 ?
20:05:50 <clokep_work> It would be inconsistent. I believe XMPP you can specify a nick that has nothing to do w/ your account name.
20:05:58 <aleth> Yes.
20:06:13 <aleth> Thanks!
20:06:36 <clokep_work> aleth: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/components/public/ is your friend. ;)
20:06:38 <aleth> Still unsure of my way around the actual account/protocol code...
20:06:58 <clokep_work> It's all the public interfaces of how code are allowed to interact w/o touching private code / properties.
20:07:13 <aleth> clokep_work: Oh good.
20:10:12 <clokep_work> Yup! :) Feel free to ask though still.
20:10:39 <clokep_work> We should at least be able to point you to the files. :)
20:10:51 <clokep_work> lxr has a decent search too! Though searching for like "nick" will yield a lot of results I guess. :(
20:13:10 <aleth> That's the problem...
20:17:08 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 1008 on bug 1174.
20:17:12 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1174 min, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Own nickname shouldn't block completion of another
20:24:23 <clokep_work> Hah, so simple.
20:25:02 <aleth> Yup, the thinnest of papercuts :)
20:26:30 <aleth> I am impressed by some of the methods JS already has built into its standard types
20:27:20 <aleth> Very convenient.
20:27:49 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1176 filed by tomaskom.cz@seznam.cz.
20:27:51 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1176 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Renaming metacontact and its "subcontacts"
20:28:43 <clokep_work> Yes, it's powerfull.
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20:29:51 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1177 filed by aletheia2@fastmail.fm.
20:29:52 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 1009 on bug 1177.
20:29:53 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1177 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Remove occasional warning on tab completion
20:29:57 <clokep_work> More aliases garbage. :(
20:30:20 <aleth> Where?
20:31:12 <aleth> Oh, that bug filed just now I guess...
20:31:17 <clokep_work> bug 1176.
20:31:20 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1176 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Renaming metacontact and its "subcontacts"
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21:53:55 <flo> the server alias part is quite broken too :(
21:55:17 <flo> aleth: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/components/public/purpleIConversation.idl#166
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23:55:02 <flo> Good night :)