All times are UTC.
00:00:24 --> jb has joined #instantbird 00:00:40 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1156 filed by jahkae@gmail.com. 00:00:41 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1156 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Remember individual window position and size 00:01:00 <-- jb1 has quit (Ping timeout) 00:01:02 --> billysanca has joined #instantbird 00:07:11 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 00:07:11 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 00:10:48 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org denied review for attachment 970 on bug 683. 00:10:50 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=683 enh, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Handle deleted messages on twitter 00:13:13 <clokep> Bah. :( Well I got one review granted! :) 00:13:22 <clokep> Sorry you had to unbitrot it. 00:13:54 --> mmkmou has joined #instantbird 00:15:01 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org added attachment 983 to bug 683. 00:15:03 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=683 enh, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Handle deleted messages on twitter 00:15:46 <clokep> Yes I work there Mook_as. 00:16:19 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout) 00:16:23 <Mook_as> ah. was just interesting because I mouseovered one of your lines. 00:16:36 <Mook_as> heard of them, but never figured out what they do :P 00:16:50 <clokep> That's the point. ;) 00:18:29 <clokep> (Not, but more seriously wikipedia has some information as does the corporate website.) 00:18:51 * clokep is surprised you've heard of it. 00:20:16 <flo> can I r+ and commit the patch in bug 772, or do we (still) want to write an add-on making use of it so that we can be sure it's useful before integrating these changes? 00:20:19 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=772 enh, --, ---, mattdentremont, ASSI, Use a sortComparator function on groups to allow easy changing of the order of contacts 00:20:50 <clokep> Perhaps you've read The Cuckoo's Egg? ;) 00:21:20 <clokep> flo: r+ and check it in, it'll let anyone work on it when they get a chance (i.e. Mic isn't capable of building anything) 00:23:49 <-- clokep has left #instantbird () 00:23:59 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 00:23:59 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 00:26:19 <-- billysanca has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 00:26:50 --> billysanca has joined #instantbird 00:35:32 <flo> clokep: isn't deOmega's bug a semi dupe of bug 1095? 00:35:35 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1095 nor, --, 1.2, florian, RESO FIXED, No notification when the user's nick is mentioned in the twitter timeline 00:35:44 <flo> or is he on nightlies? 00:43:16 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 961 on bug 772. 00:43:18 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=772 enh, --, ---, mattdentremont, ASSI, Use a sortComparator function on groups to allow easy changing of the order of contacts 00:43:41 <clokep> flo: I think he's on nightlies. 00:43:49 <clokep> But I think he wants a window to pop up with the new tweets contents. 00:44:22 <flo> what's the next step for bug 759? 00:44:25 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759 min, --, ---, florian, ASSI, Reorganize purplexpcom 00:44:56 <clokep> Did we rename interfaces? 00:45:10 <flo> some (those that changed significantly) 00:45:38 <flo> should we identify all the interfaces that are required for chat/ to work, and move all that into chat/components/public/? 00:45:38 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/f90c2648a35d - Patrick Cloke - Bug 1083 - The copyright year shouldn't be localizable, r=fqueze. 00:45:39 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/6c5abb266d47 - Patrick Cloke - Bug 1121 - No longer possible to double click a tweet to reply to it, r=fqueze. 00:45:40 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/8430992e1544 - aleth - Bug 1124 - Some minor conversation CSS improvements, r=fqueze. 00:45:41 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/966657ce46fd - Florian Quèze - Avoid a JS error while loading an empty account list. 00:45:42 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/ba4e219b3d55 - aleth - Bug 1112 - Only show active nicks in color in participant list, r=fqueze. 00:45:43 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/2db854d92232 - Florian Quèze - Follow up to 40d3eaad9fe6 to actually fix the creation of twitter conversations. 00:45:44 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/d9a296c543d9 - v17al - Bug 772 - Use a sortComparator function on groups to allow easy changing of the order of contacts, r=fqueze. 00:46:01 <flo> and then mass rename purpleI* -> {im|prpl}I* ? 00:46:39 <clokep> Yes, I think that should be next. 00:46:52 <clokep> (I'll mark all those as fixe if you want to sleep btw.) 00:47:00 <flo> (thanks! :)) 00:47:18 <clokep> It's easy now that all my bug links work. :-D 00:47:32 <flo> renaming interfaces that look like they are just exposing libpurple APIs "sounds wrong" to me though :( 00:47:55 <clokep> Should they be redesigned? 00:47:58 <flo> purpleIUserNameSplit? :( 00:48:36 <flo> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/search?string=purpleI -> long long list :( 00:49:14 <flo> purpleITooltipInfo? 00:49:17 <clokep> Personally? I want UserNameSplit and ChatRoomFields (and related) to die. 00:49:18 <-- mmkmou has quit (Client exited) 00:49:31 <Mook_as> you need to upgrade to mxr so you can filter for \.idl$ files with regex interface\s+purpleI :p 00:49:40 <flo> purpleIChatRoomFieldValues 00:49:56 <flo> clokep: so do I. 00:50:06 <flo> But what can we put there instead? 00:50:09 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1083 to FIXED. 00:50:11 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1083 nor, --, ---, clokep, RESO FIXED, The copyright year shouldn't be localizable 00:50:50 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1121 to FIXED. 00:50:52 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1121 nor, --, 1.2, clokep, RESO FIXED, No longer possible to double click a tweet to reply to it 00:51:06 --> rikki1 has joined #instantbird 00:51:07 <clokep> Idk. We'll need to look at them. 00:51:35 <clokep> I wonder if UserNameSplit can just be a function that returns an array of strings or something. 00:51:42 <flo> purpleIPref :( 00:51:54 --> rikki2 has joined #instantbird 00:52:12 <-- rikki has quit (Ping timeout) 00:52:14 <flo> IMHO, the whole concept of usernamesplit is wrong 00:52:31 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1124 to FIXED. 00:52:34 <flo> an XMPP server isn't part of the username 00:52:34 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1124 nor, --, 1.2, aletheia2, RESO FIXED, Some minor conversation CSS improvements 00:52:36 <flo> and the resource even less 00:52:59 <-- rikki1 has quit (Ping timeout) 00:53:12 <flo> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/components/public/prplIProtocol.idl#124 00:53:12 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1112 to FIXED. 00:53:14 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1112 nor, --, 1.2, aletheia2, RESO FIXED, Only show active nicks in color in participant list 00:54:03 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 772 to FIXED. 00:54:05 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=772 enh, --, 1.2, mattdentremont, RESO FIXED, Use a sortComparator function on groups to allow easy changing of the order of contacts 00:54:09 <Mook_as> I guess it sort-of make sense if you treat each account (err, whatever that includes the resource) as a URI. 00:54:24 <clokep> flo: Right, well the point of a UserNameSplit is to get unique names for each account, right? 00:54:26 <flo> they should probably either have a sensible default value and be hidden with the other proto specific options, or be a proto override 00:54:48 <flo> Mook_as: users know what a URI is? 00:54:59 <Mook_as> flo: oh, no, _not_ for the user at all 00:55:01 <clokep> But they don't really see a usernamesplit either, they see a list of fields. 00:55:06 <Mook_as> just an internal representation of the account it 00:55:11 <Mook_as> s/it/id/ 00:55:23 <Mook_as> (the fact that it's exposed, at all, is a bug) 00:55:26 <flo> clokep: except they see the "real" username in the account manager after the account is created... 00:55:39 <clokep> Ah, yes. That's an issue. :-/ 00:55:43 <Mook_as> it just needs a good toString() ;) 00:57:28 <EionRobb> keep clear of those bad toString()'s... they're up to no good 00:57:39 <clokep> Bah I think either DND or Hide Auto-Joins is being overly aggressive. 00:58:19 <flo> so, the questions that need to be answered are: 1. Is it OK to just rename these interfaces purpleI->prplI? (do we even want to do it?) 2. Can we design something offering a better UX? Is it worth it? Do we want to do it? 3. Are they close enough to being libpurple code to be GPL'ed and tainting the rest of the code? 00:58:58 <flo> clokep: DND needs an update 00:59:04 <flo> I posted it to AIO 01:00:38 <clokep> Do we want to leave it as purpleI until they're redesigned, at which point we prplI them? 01:01:05 <clokep> Didn't realize DND was experimental and I wouldn't get an update. 01:01:16 <flo> it doesn't have a screenshot :( 01:01:25 <clokep> :-/ 01:02:02 <flo> do we plan to redesign them in the next 2 weeks or so? 01:02:37 <clokep> Some of them might be able to, some are more complicated. 01:04:05 <flo> We can probably start by renaming the interfaces that are acceptable 01:04:17 <flo> purpleIConv{ersation,IM,Chat} seem relatively OK 01:04:20 <flo> purpleIMessage too 01:04:45 <flo> purpleIRequestBrowser is entierly our (unfortunate) code added for twitter 01:06:23 <clokep> Yes, I agree. 01:07:48 <clokep> (o_O) I just got an entity error in the account manager. 01:07:51 <clokep> On my debug build. 01:09:50 <flo> which entity was missing? 01:10:45 <clokep> Actually everything is just messed up. blist and account manager are both broken. 01:10:54 <flo> or do we need to escape & characters in error messages in the account manager? 01:11:00 <clokep> They're just pointing to the window, so it's probably the window name? 01:11:18 <flo> what's in the error console? 01:12:24 <clokep> A whole lotta information...then... 01:13:03 <clokep> flo: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/1061 01:13:10 <flo> I wonder if it's realistic to move the purpleIProxy* interfaces out of chat/ (back to purple/), and to make a purpleIAccount that inherits from imIAccount and has that additional proxy attribute 01:13:28 <flo> then move the account wizard and manager code that handles libpurple proxy to overlays 01:13:29 <clokep> That would be much nicer I think. :) 01:14:36 <-- Tomek has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1) 01:16:07 <flo> I wonder if that's improvement, or just a waste of time, because I should rewrite libpurple/proxy.c instead to call mozilla functions 01:16:48 <clokep> Do we sitll want the ability of different accounts to have different proxies btw? 01:17:44 <flo> is it useful? 01:18:00 <clokep> Not to me, but to others maybe. :) 01:18:08 <clokep> Just thinking that Thunderbird allows it I believe. ;) 01:18:19 <flo> really? 01:18:20 <flo> where? 01:18:54 <clokep> Actually maybe I made that up. :( 01:19:54 <clokep> Yes, I lied. :) 01:19:57 <clokep> Never mind! 01:20:12 <flo> the mozilla proxy dialog lets the user set different kinds of proxies (and then selects automatically which one is appropriate for the desired port), and set exceptions (no proxy!) for some hostnames 01:20:53 <clokep> Ah, I see. 01:21:00 <Mook_as> and if you're crazy enough, proxy auto config files written in JS 01:21:02 <clokep> Sounds as complicated in a differentw ay. ;) 01:21:22 <flo> Mook_as: they do synchronous DNS resolutions though :( 01:21:37 <Mook_as> yeah :( 01:21:51 <flo> clokep: it's as complicated as taking into account the proxy environment is 01:21:59 <Mook_as> hmm, I wonder if you can hook up accounts to proxy auto config 01:22:16 <Mook_as> (because if yes, you _can_ just shuttle everything to mozilla and let the user deal) 01:22:34 <flo> the libpurple system just doesn't work, because if you need a different proxy for HTTP (http proxy) and for other random data connections (socks proxy) and your socks proxy doesn't accept HTTP connection, you can't do anything to connect 01:23:12 <clokep> So how do you do the tier_app thing again? 01:23:22 <clokep> |make tier_app| is what I tried. 01:23:55 <flo> Mook_as: the purple_proxy_connect function is promising as a point to start rewriting, as it has both a host and a port parameter! :) 01:23:55 <flo> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/libpurple/proxy.c#2271 01:24:08 <flo> but I'm worried for what happens after the connection has been initiated 01:24:31 <flo> as most libpurple plugin code expects (if I understood correctly) to read() and write() on a raw file descriptor 01:24:46 <flo> clokep: that should work 01:24:51 <flo> you need to do it in the objdir though 01:24:58 * Mook_as reads http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/libpurple/proxy.h#238 01:25:12 topic changed by clokep to "" 01:25:19 <clokep> flo: That did it. :) Thank you! 01:25:52 <flo> Mook_as: "it is used for establishing any outgoing TCP connection, whether through a proxy or not." looks super promising 01:26:55 <clokep> flo: building tier_app fixed my issues so I must have not had the locales get built at some point for some reason. 01:27:15 <flo> or forgot -purgecaches maybe? 01:27:24 <clokep> Maybe. It was a clean build. 01:27:25 <Mook_as> yeah, the callback basically takes a fd as the second arg (named "source" for some reason) 01:27:28 <flo> anyway, glad it works now :) 01:27:33 <clokep> Yes, thanks! 01:27:39 <clokep> Gonna go fix up my twitter patch. ;) 01:31:20 <flo> Mook_as: so if I'm starting to think "maybe we could use some preprocessor magic to rewrite all the read/write call to call one of our functions instead", am I crazy? ;) 01:32:43 <Mook_as> looks like everybody just passes it to purple_input_add ? 01:32:57 <Mook_as> ah, no, they also keep it around :| 01:33:48 * Mook_as wonders if you could provide your own custom read()/write() impl 01:33:56 <Mook_as> (via fiddling with the linker) 01:33:59 <flo> purple_input_add goes back to our purpleSocket XPCOM code that puts the socket fd into nsSocketTransportService to watch the socket off the main thread 01:34:21 <flo> we also need a custom close 01:34:22 <Mook_as> yeah, and at some points they also call write(fd) directly anyway 01:34:28 <flo> why with the linker and not the preprocessor? 01:34:39 <Mook_as> because foo->read() != read() 01:34:47 <flo> it's already done with the preprocessor anyway 01:34:55 <flo> foo->read() doesn't compile on windows :-D 01:35:09 <Mook_as> hah. whatever you want, then :p 01:35:15 <flo> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/libpurple/win32/libc_interface.h#110 01:35:34 <Mook_as> it's just that I've learned to hate this sort of preprocessor fudging. 01:35:40 <Mook_as> (partly from libmozalloc) 01:36:12 <flo> it's obviously horrible hacks ;) 01:37:03 <flo> but I'm even more scared of linker hacks, as linker error messages are rarely easy to understand when it's not just "undefined reference to <name of a function you forgot to implement>" 01:41:43 <-- Mook_as has quit (Quit: gone) 01:43:14 <flo> Good night :) 01:43:15 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 01:45:24 <-- devfil has quit (Client exited) 01:46:58 <-- wesj|birch_sheriff has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 01:53:10 topic changed by clokep to "" 02:05:57 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com added attachment 984 to bug 683. 02:05:58 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 984 on bug 683. 02:05:59 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=683 enh, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Handle deleted messages on twitter 02:16:18 --> BlueMaxima has joined #instantbird 02:22:16 <-- Even has quit (Connection reset by peer) 02:33:00 <-- SM0TVI has quit (Connection reset by peer) 02:33:02 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 02:33:06 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 02:33:06 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 02:34:27 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 02:34:40 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 02:34:40 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 02:35:02 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 02:35:20 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 02:35:20 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 02:36:22 topic changed by clokep to "Ask questions about Instantbird (http://www.instantbird.com) here|Get Instantbird 1.1 while it's hot! :) |News: http://blog.instantbird.org/ |Nightlies: http://nightly.instantbird.im/ (testing purpose only) |IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/ |Pastebin: http://pastebin.instantbird.org/" 02:37:20 <clokep> Hmmm...I apparently cleared the topic at some point, but I thought if you change it to an empty string it just keeps it as is. 02:37:42 <-- billysanca has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 02:38:03 * clokep wonders if esc would cancel editing the topic. 02:38:13 <clokep> Ah, it does. :) 02:46:18 <clokep> So I'm trying to implement bug 701 as an extension, but the statusType isn't always defined. :-/ 02:46:21 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=701 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Sort buddies by status 02:46:50 <clokep> (Also the way I'm doing it now isn't restartless, but I'm not sure it's possible when messing w/ XUL in this way.) 02:47:11 <clokep> Anyway, it's likek half working on my debug build, obviously can't try on my real profile yet until the nightly updates. :) 02:47:16 <clokep> I can post the code at some point if people want. 03:10:36 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 03:21:59 --> Mook has joined #instantbird 04:07:58 <-- EionRobb has quit (Quit: Leaving.) 05:09:55 --> GeekShadow has joined #instantbird 05:24:11 <-- GeekShadow has quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 07:20:54 <-- Mook has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-rdmsoft [XULRunner 6.0/20110811165603]) 07:24:44 --> SM0TVI has joined #instantbird 08:34:19 <-- gerard-majax has quit (Ping timeout) 08:35:41 --> MadWookiee has joined #instantbird 08:36:04 <-- MadWookiee has left #instantbird () 08:40:21 --> Wolfeh has joined #instantbird 09:06:42 --> mmkmou has joined #instantbird 09:08:47 --> MicTest has joined #instantbird 09:12:41 <-- MicTest has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 09:12:46 --> MicTest has joined #instantbird 09:13:08 <MicTest> Hi 09:13:23 <MicTest> Oops, wrong profile :D 09:13:29 <-- MicTest has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 09:17:06 <-- mmkmou has quit (Client exited) 09:17:27 --> mmkmou has joined #instantbird 09:19:43 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1157 filed by karavokiris@yahoo.com. 09:19:45 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1157 cri, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, crashes at startup 09:30:51 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 09:30:52 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 09:32:38 --> Tomek has joined #instantbird 09:34:30 <Mic> flo: it wasn't a brand new profile in the sense that I just created it. It had no account and no nothing nevertheless. 09:37:27 <Mic> I receive an error when connecting my ICQ account: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/1063 09:37:34 <Mic> If it persists, I'll file a bug 09:38:05 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 09:38:09 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 09:38:09 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 09:38:54 <-- Mic has left #instantbird () 09:39:02 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 09:39:02 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 09:39:02 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 09:41:13 --> flo has joined #instantbird 09:41:13 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 09:41:37 <flo> hello :) 09:42:01 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 09:42:48 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 09:42:48 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 09:45:30 <flo> I've no idea of what "twitter sometimes shows signs of overload and is ready to crash" could possibly mean :-D 09:45:58 * Mic found two bugs, has put a char over them and needs someone to swat them. 09:47:32 <Mic> That was a "jar", of course :D 09:47:52 <aleth> hey, the inactive nicks landed :) 09:48:49 <-- andreasn has quit (Ping timeout) 09:49:20 <flo> aleth: yes :) 09:49:40 <-- Tomek has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1) 09:49:44 <flo> it looks nice :) 09:50:36 <flo> I'm wondering if I/we shouldn't change the theming of the participant list to look more like the lists in the contacts window 09:51:06 <aleth> Do you mean the colour of selections? 09:51:14 <flo> so on mac that would be: put a white background, and theme the "Participants: N" header like the "Conversations on hold" and "Contacts" headers 09:51:36 <flo> no, they seem ok now :) 09:51:44 <aleth> Here on Linux that's already pretty much the way it looks 09:52:07 <aleth> (White background unless your theme has chosen different, and the headers are not that different either) 09:52:21 <flo> on mac they are completely different 09:52:59 <aleth> That's because of the mac-specific theming - I remember being surprised when you showed me a screenshot 09:53:08 <flo> yeah :) 09:54:15 <aleth> Sorry about those incorrect diff files btw - probably due to me deleting parts of the diff because there were so many overlapping patches on the same files going on 09:54:36 <flo> by the way, can you reproduce this bug on Linux: 1. select the contacts window. 2. click on a nick in the participants list. Observed behavior: the conv window gets focused, the clicked nick gets selected, its line turns blue, then immediately after turns grey 09:54:49 <flo> so it "flashes blue" for a fraction of second, which is ugly 09:56:04 <flo> (it turns grey because when a conv window is focused, we focus the textbox automatically) 09:56:09 <aleth> Hmm, no, I don't see that. Unless you mean the slight difference between the background color of the selected bar with and without focus 09:56:26 <aleth> Which might be a bigger difference on Mac 09:56:58 <flo> aleth: yes, the background color of the selected nick is blue when the list is focused, and gray when it's not 09:57:23 <aleth> Aha, I see why now you mention it. It's because the textbox is not automatically focused on Linux. 09:57:33 <flo> uh? 09:57:46 <aleth> I.e. If I click on a nick to focus the conv window, the focus stays with the listbox 09:57:55 <instantbot> New purplexpcom - General bug 1158 filed by benediktp@ymail.com. 09:57:57 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1158 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Alias changes not taking effect until after a restart 09:58:20 <flo> it may be yet another click=mousedown vs click=mouseup difference :-/ 09:58:35 <flo> if you focus the conv window by clicking on a message, is the textbox focused? 09:58:38 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1159 filed by benediktp@ymail.com. 09:58:39 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1159 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Follow-up to bug 1112: names not matched when alias is set 09:58:47 <aleth> Yes 09:58:57 <aleth> (good thing too) 09:59:41 <aleth> I had assumed focus staying with the listbox was intentional so you could use the initial letter to jump around a long nicklist 10:00:43 <flo> aleth: on Mac the focus stays in the listbox if the window was already focused when you click on a nick 10:04:03 <flo> Mic: shouldn't we just get rid of that account alias (mis)"feature" and use the display name set from the top of the contacts window instead? 10:05:37 <flo> or if we keep the account aliases, use it for places where there is a list of accounts (join chat and add buddy dialogs, ...) 10:07:28 <Mic> We discussed this before iirc and the idea was to do the latter 10:07:36 <Mic> Let me try to find the log 10:10:56 <Mic> Ah, there is bug 468 ? 10:11:00 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=468 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Introduce an "account display name" 10:14:24 --> gerard-majax has joined #instantbird 10:16:53 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 10:16:54 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 10:36:15 <Mic> aleth: the inactive participants are great :) 10:36:44 <aleth> glad you like them :) 10:37:57 * flo thinks the active participants are more interesting (in what they say) 10:38:01 <aleth> Now like you said it needs the "other half" of eventually setting active ones back to inactive 10:53:03 <flo> maybe do that once we remove old messages from the conversation view? :) 10:53:58 <flo> wouldn't it be nice when scrolling back in the history to have the nick list change automatically to reflect who was there at the time? :) 10:53:59 <aleth> Yes, it would have to go together with that 10:54:05 <aleth> and the logging 10:54:11 <aleth> Oh, that's a great idea :) 10:54:46 <flo> we obviously don't have enough informations (currently) in the logs for that though 10:54:50 <aleth> Much cleaner than a hard timeout 10:55:07 <Mic> Ah, the logger .. :S 10:56:01 <Mic> I haven't cleaned the default values from the message objects yet. (i.e. it's just json-ifying what is there) 11:07:05 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 11:10:43 <-- mmkmou has left #instantbird () 11:10:56 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 11:10:56 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 11:10:59 <flo> clokep: shouldn't the "copy link to tweet" action be available even when the account isn't connected? 11:11:02 <flo> clokep: hello :) 11:11:16 <clokep> That was fast... 11:11:20 <clokep> Is it not, right now? 11:11:23 <flo> (I thought I was putting that in the log, not that you were going to enter the room at the second I pressed enter :)) 11:11:59 <flo> clokep: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/protocols/twitter/twitter.js#68 11:13:34 <clokep> flo: I see, yes you shuld be able to do that while disconnected. 11:15:34 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org denied review for attachment 984 on bug 683. 11:15:36 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=683 enh, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Handle deleted messages on twitter 11:15:51 <clokep> Am I closer this time at least? :P 11:16:42 <flo> you have completely ignored at least one of the previous review comment. 11:16:47 <flo> so... I'm not really sure ;) 11:17:43 <clokep> Bah I did forget about that. :( Sorry. :-[ 11:18:32 <flo> you also forgot twice in a row to fully reread the review comment before attaching the new iteration ;) 11:19:16 <clokep> I re-read it, I just asssumed that that block of code corresponded to another comment without reading the comment. :P 11:19:28 <flo> lol 11:19:53 <flo> "I re-read it [...] without reading the comment. :P" sounds like a terrible excuse to me :-P 11:19:56 <clokep> (Not that I'm complaining, but I had trouble since some things were fixed already in your unbitrotted patch, so I kept going to do things and saw they were fixed already!) 11:20:05 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 11:20:21 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 11:20:21 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 11:20:33 <clokep> Yay for crashing during my update. :P 11:20:41 <flo> boo :( 11:20:43 <flo> crash report? 11:21:28 <flo> clokep: you left the room with a correct quit message though? Was this a shutdown crash after disconnecting cleanly? 11:21:54 <clokep> flo: Yes a shutdown crash. 11:21:58 <clokep> I've gotten a bunch of them. 11:22:23 <flo> http://crash-stats.instantbird.com/report/list?product=Instantbird&query_search=signature&query_type=exact&query=&date=&range_value=1&range_unit=weeks&process_type=all&plugin_field=&plugin_query_type=&plugin_query=&do_query=1&signature=purple_blist_node_set_ui_data ? :) 11:22:53 <clokep> Yes, those sounds like it. 11:23:01 <flo> you crashed 3 times today? 11:23:21 <clokep> Well two were last night, no? 11:23:31 <clokep> (Today for you?) 11:23:37 <flo> I'm still not used to seeing my message in red :-S 11:23:47 <flo> I keep reading them as if someone as said something new 11:24:01 <flo> clokep: yeah, I meant "today, French time" 11:24:08 <Mic> flo: same for me 11:24:20 <clokep> flo: Yes, those are all me (pretty much check the extensions, if it has js-irc it's me. :P) 11:24:42 <Mic> The indicator at the bubble (I'm using the alternating bubble style) doesn't help either :( 11:24:48 <flo> clokep: I knew at least 2 of those were you, + they are all with exactly the same OS version ;) 11:25:14 <flo> Mic: that bubble indicator is the only visible difference 11:25:23 <flo> and yes, it doesn't help me :( 11:26:14 <clokep> You can blame for me that change btw. ;) 11:26:19 <flo> clokep: do you have an add-on that could be keeping a reference to a purpleAccountBuddy instance after libpurple is uninitialized? 11:26:50 <flo> (that should not crash anyway) 11:26:56 --> ghinda has joined #instantbird 11:26:57 <flo> (but it would be nice to have steps to reproduce :)) 11:27:11 <clokep> Is it possible it's one of the protocol add-ons I have? 11:28:06 <flo> I don't think your js-irc code plays with libpurple account buddies :) 11:28:19 <flo> and it would be... strange for an override to have to touch buddies directly 11:28:59 <flo> and if it's something in the core, I'm surprised that it happens so frequently for you, yet nobody else is crashing there 11:29:11 <clokep> Right. 11:29:18 <clokep> I'll disable them for now since theyd on't work anyway. ;) 11:30:48 <flo> pfff, how is it possible that this user is on Mac OS X 10.7.1 (brand new!) and still crashing in a netsoul crash that was fixed soon after 0.2 http://crash-stats.instantbird.com/report/list?product=Instantbird&query_search=signature&query_type=exact&query=&date=&range_value=1&range_unit=weeks&process_type=all&plugin_field=&plugin_query_type=&plugin_query=&do_query=1&signature=libsystem_c.dylib%400x4e33d 11:31:07 <flo> come on man, update please :-D 11:31:40 <clokep> Is there an email address? :P 11:32:29 <flo> I don't know 11:32:43 <flo> a netsoul login could also help :-D 11:33:49 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 11:38:21 <clokep> Push major updates of 0.2 to 1.1? ;) 11:39:17 <flo> don't we already do that? 11:39:43 * flo feels an add-on to change one's nick color coming 11:41:38 <clokep> We could also roll back the change that I had suggested to aleth. 11:41:48 <clokep> I think I'd like to try this for a couple days first though. :) 11:42:46 <flo> I think the change is right, but my visual memory has been trained for years to see my messages in blue 11:43:07 <flo> + we have the bad luck of having Mi c, you, alet h and me in similar red/pink looking colors 11:43:15 <aleth> Yes, it's disconcerting at first isn't it 11:43:43 <aleth> I was also surprised nobody had ever noticed previously their nick in the nicklist was in the 'wrong' color 11:44:01 <aleth> Btw all the add-ons I have installed still seem to work :) 11:44:07 <flo> aleth: it had been mentioned several times 11:44:15 <aleth> (Apart from Colorize, but I don't think that ever worked) 11:44:42 <flo> it's broken? :-O 11:44:48 <clokep> flo: I feel like the algorithm we use for colors heavily favors red based colors sometimes... 11:45:07 <clokep> flo: It hasn't worked for me for ages. I told you a few times but never had any errors or anything (or had time to debug it). 11:45:16 <flo> well, now that most nicks are grey it's hard to tell, but I don't think so. 11:45:24 <aleth> clokep: Doesn't it depend a lot on your initial letter being high up in the alphabet? 11:45:41 <aleth> i.e. wait until Wolfeh shows up ;) 11:45:54 <clokep> aleth: Mic is not high up in the alphabet. ;) 11:45:56 <Wolfeh> wahee! 11:46:14 <clokep> I believe it was designed for adjacent users to have different colors and (as flo said) we'ree just unlucky. 11:46:18 <clokep> Also instantbot is green. :) 11:46:23 <aleth> :) 11:46:25 <flo> micah g is very close to Mic and isn't red 11:46:34 <Wolfeh> im blue 11:46:44 <flo> Wolfeh: we can see that :) 11:46:56 <Wolfeh> :D 11:46:59 <flo> I think douglaswt h isn't red either 11:47:03 <clokep> Perhaps we should assign them based on who's talking. ;) 11:47:34 <aleth> It's more important that they are consistent across sessions, which they are right now 11:47:42 <flo> I wanted the algorithm to be deterministic, so that you don't have to retrain your visual memory everyday or on each computer 11:48:26 <flo> hmm, we both said the exact same thing with surprisingly completely different words :) 11:48:52 <clokep> I agree. :) 11:49:07 <clokep> I was mostly kidding, but it could be useful in certain situations (i.e. for an add-on to do.) 11:49:47 <aleth> The one niggle right now is that outgoing messages are not the same color in all tabs 11:50:14 <flo> I think an add-on to change colors for some specific nicks was discussed at some points (but never actually implemented). This would let the user manually avoid the cases of "bad luck on this channel" 11:50:14 <aleth> But I'm not sure anymore it's a huge problem 11:51:10 <flo> by the way, I don't even remember why that change was related to graying out inactive nicks in the participant list 11:52:39 <aleth> It's not, apart from that the graying out makes active nicks more visible 11:52:46 <aleth> So suddenly you notice more 11:53:55 <aleth> Or did you mean why the change was introduced? That was because otherwise the user's nick never goes active ;) 11:54:25 <flo> ah, ok 11:54:28 <aleth> i.e. you have to assign it _some_ colour 11:54:52 <flo> well, apparently there's still some problem with that (see bug 1159) 11:54:56 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1159 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Follow-up to bug 1112: names not matched when alias is set 11:55:08 <aleth> yay, bugs... that was quick :( 11:56:02 <flo> that change also has the problem that the color variants (at least in bubbles) are now pointless in MUCs 11:56:22 <aleth> flo: Yes, that's what I was referring to above (inconsistent across tabs) 11:56:26 <Wolfeh> hehe names not match when alias is set, reminds me of alias ls -> dir on a tux machine, ls does not match dir :P 11:56:35 <aleth> But noone seemed to be able to tell me how to get at that color 11:56:49 <Mic> Just a random question: would it be worth to compile a list of webservices (forums, etherpad,..) that comes with chat and see if we can integrate somewhere? 11:57:03 <flo> aleth: I told you several times that "that color" doesn't exist. 11:57:14 <aleth> flo: I know ;) 11:57:26 <flo> so why do you keep mentioning "getting that color" 11:57:33 <flo> it doesn't exist! :-P 11:57:43 <clokep> Mic: Possibly, an "ideas for protocols" type thing? 11:57:44 <aleth> OK, bad phrasing 11:57:45 <Mic> "if we can integrate" should mean: we help them to integrate a protocol plugin with us 11:58:00 <clokep> Bye! 11:58:01 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 11:58:12 <Mic> bbl, lunch 11:58:19 <flo> yeah, away for lunch too! 11:58:53 <aleth> flo: Though in fact what you would need is a way for the message style to tell IB what the chosen outgoing colour is, so I don't think my way of putting it is too far off 11:59:26 <flo> THAT COLOR DOES NOT EXIST! 11:59:40 <aleth> It does on the screen ;) That's all I meant. 12:00:27 <Wolfeh> bling bling bling we have a winner, capslock heros to the rescue :) 12:01:38 <Wolfeh> right, half hour to finish my first addon for ib, brb 12:02:19 <aleth> We are not actually disagreeing about anything I think, it's just a matter of perspective (code vs user). Of course the colour doesn't exist, otherwise we wouldn't have the problem (if it is one) 12:07:13 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 12:07:16 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 12:08:23 <aleth> Can confirm 1158... 12:08:35 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 12:08:45 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 12:09:14 <aleth> Hmm 12:17:39 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 12:17:47 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 12:23:08 <Wolfeh> when testing an addon, how to provide some debugging for it? 12:25:32 <aleth> Wolfeh: There are some tips here https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Setting_up_extension_development_environment 12:25:50 <Mic> Wolfeh: you can include Services.jsm and use Services.console.logStringMessage(aString) 12:26:31 <aleth> Or set an about:config entry and use dump() 12:26:31 <Mic> .. or Components.utils.reportError() to write an error to the error console. 12:26:44 <Mic> aleth: does this work? I didn't know that 12:27:05 <aleth> Mic: It writes to the console, not the error console 12:28:28 <Mic> Ah, ok. I guess my OS isn't 1980ist enough for that. 12:28:40 <aleth> lol 12:28:40 <Mic> :P 12:29:42 <Mic> At least I know when I'm trolling ;) 12:29:52 <aleth> Re bug 1159, if my diagnosis is correct, JS_IRC might already fix that 12:29:55 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1159 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Follow-up to bug 1112: names not matched when alias is set 12:30:29 <aleth> (depending on how clokep implemented aliases) 12:35:32 <Wolfeh> and where's the error console? 12:35:41 <Wolfeh> dom inspector thingy? 12:35:50 <Mic> Tools -> Error Console (CTRL-SHIFT-J) 12:35:59 <Wolfeh> ah :D 12:36:14 <aleth> DOM Inspector is an add-on 12:36:19 <Mic> We also have DOMi on the add-ons page 12:36:39 <Mic> In case you need to look at something (a pity that Chrome Bug stopped to work .. I really started to like it!) 12:36:45 <Wolfeh> yeah, i maybe could have used that to debug addons 12:37:25 <Wolfeh> but the error console seems more useable to do that 12:37:57 <aleth> Well, it depends what the problem is... 12:38:13 <Wolfeh> domi is more for themes i guess 12:52:18 --> clokep_work has joined #instantbird 12:52:18 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep_work 12:52:42 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 12:59:08 <-- clokep_work has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 13:00:06 <flo> Wolfeh: I didn't use capslock. Just shouting with the shift key :-D 13:00:18 <Wolfeh> all the same :P 13:01:01 <-- ghinda has quit (Client exited) 13:21:46 <flo> https://wiki.mozilla.org/images/3/35/Mozcamp_2011_banner.png lots of chat bubbles on that logo :) 13:23:09 <aleth> :D 13:23:29 <aleth> you can steal it for your slides :) 13:24:19 <aleth> btw I noticed the other day the (long and detailed) "how to use mozilla IRC servers" page does not mention IB 13:25:23 --> clokep_work has joined #instantbird 13:25:23 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep_work 13:26:13 <clokep_work> aleth: Why would JS-IRC affect that bug at all? Aliases aren't used in chats by design AFAIK. 13:27:10 <aleth> clokep_work: Because as far as I can tell, getParticipants() is implemented by the protocol? 13:28:17 <aleth> If aliases are not to be used in chats then I don't understand the bug, i.e. why they are there in IRC options in the first place? 13:30:04 <flo> aleth: I've suggested at least twice here that someone should either edit the page to add ib or contact the author about it 13:30:49 <aleth> flo: Oh, I didn't know that. Only stumbled over that page by accident two days ago, and it seemed semi-internal 13:30:57 <clokep_work> aleth: Is it the IRC alias you're talking about or the overall alias you can set on the buddy list? 13:31:46 <aleth> The IRC alias (at least that's how I understand the bug). The current behaviour is that the IRC alias is displayed in the chat bubble but not in the nicklist. The mismatch causes the bug. 13:32:04 <aleth> One or the other should be changed, I am not sure which 13:32:25 <-- Wolfeh has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1) 13:32:33 --> Wolfeh has joined #instantbird 13:35:50 <aleth> flo: I should add that the first and last time I tried to modify a mozilla wiki page, the change was immediately reverted as I was not in the group of people who were allowed to modify that page. This was entirely legitimate, but it does mean as an outsider you don't think you should edit without permission 13:35:59 <-- clokep_work has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 13:36:23 <flo> aleth: you can still email the author 13:36:33 <flo> (if you care about this page :)) 13:36:38 <flo> or ping him on IRC 13:40:18 <aleth> flo: Do you think it is worth it? (I mentioned it merely as an example for what you were saying the other day, that mozillians as a whole were not aware of IB's existance) 13:40:32 <flo> yes 13:40:49 <flo> anything we can do to avoid mozillians recommanding others to use Chatzilla is worth it :-D 13:46:34 <aleth> oh yeah, it does recommend Chatzilla :( 13:48:36 <flo> of course it does 13:50:55 <aleth> I guess its' a fair enough option, as a FF add-on... 14:04:05 <flo> yeah, it's a fair option. It's just better if it's not presented as the only mozilla option :) 14:04:38 --> hunsly has joined #instantbird 14:28:56 <-- hunsly has quit (Ping timeout) 14:29:53 --> hunsly has joined #instantbird 14:37:59 <-- hunsly has quit (Connection reset by peer) 14:40:17 <flo> http://queze.net/goinfre/fosdem11-slides/nightly2.png probably needs an update if I still want to have it in the slides 14:44:16 <flo> http://queze.net/goinfre/fosdem11-slides/update1.png is too old too :( 14:49:36 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm added attachment 985 to bug 1128. 14:49:37 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 985 on bug 1128. 14:49:38 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1128 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, NEW, Contact list CSS inheritance cleanup 14:58:57 --> jb has joined #instantbird 15:04:13 --> devfil has joined #instantbird 15:11:24 <flo> in my twitter timeline everybody seems to be green :-/ 15:20:01 <-- jb has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1) 15:21:46 <-- flo has quit (Ping timeout) 15:24:33 --> flo has joined #instantbird 15:24:33 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 15:26:15 <-- flo has quit (Ping timeout) 15:34:11 --> flo has joined #instantbird 15:34:11 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 15:46:18 --> ecaron has joined #instantbird 15:49:28 <aleth> green? mine are mainly purplish ;) 15:54:45 <flo> I would prefer if GIMP could avoid poping up a dialog with at least a dozen checkboxes for options I don't understand of details of the PNG format 15:55:03 <flo> please, just save the file with the same options as the file I opened and edited, and don't ask! :) 15:56:45 <-- BlueMaxima has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1) 15:59:01 --> MadWookiee has joined #instantbird 15:59:32 --> clokep_work has joined #instantbird 15:59:32 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep_work 16:01:13 <clokep_work> flo: We don't take into account the @ for Twitter when generating colors I hope? 16:01:33 <flo> do you see a @ in the participant list? 16:03:05 <clokep_work> I wasn't sure where we get the name from. :) 16:06:28 <flo> I'm not even sure the @ would change the result 16:06:41 <Wolfeh> flo: install my gimpserv killer addon :P 16:07:04 <flo> IIRC we take into account the first [a-zA-Z0-9]+ part 16:07:29 <Wolfeh> gotta run bye 16:07:32 <-- Wolfeh has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1) 16:09:25 <clokep_work> Ah, that does sound right. :) 16:09:41 <aleth> The rainbow of colours usually looks good I think 16:11:13 <flo> aleth: it looks gray today ;) 16:12:18 <aleth> :^) 16:12:34 --> ghinda has joined #instantbird 16:27:12 --> wesj has joined #instantbird 16:32:04 <flo> and now GIMP popups a large error message "dialog" with 3 non sense error messages, followed by "Too many error messages, messages will be redirected to stderr"! 16:34:09 <clokep_work> flo: Did you see http://twitter.com/SamWilkinson/status/134632337311940608?iid=am-150023031913209338257294053&nid=4+status_timestamp&uid=402402174 16:34:34 <flo> yeah... 16:36:17 <flo> at the same time the network "admins" here were busy disconnecting the network from the internet by rebooting several times in a row the DSL modem because "there was no internet" (but I was connected... I think "no internet" means "I selected a sucky DNS server") 16:36:19 <clokep_work> Sounds more like a connection or server issue. 16:36:53 <flo> sure, the user changes something totally unrelated (like rebooting the modem), it (the DNS server) works again, and the user concludes something stupid 16:37:24 <flo> and it's impossible to explain that it was unrelated, because they just proved it by fact 16:38:39 <clokep_work> Yes. :( 16:41:25 <flo> like my friend returning to WLM after having used Instantbird for a while, because using Instantbird destroyed her modem during a stormy evening ;) 16:43:58 <clokep_work> It sounds like a liekly cause. :P 16:44:47 <aleth> It was probably libpurple :P 16:46:28 <-- ecaron has quit (Ping timeout) 16:50:08 <flo> the worst thing is when you know those people very well and know they are not just stupid individuals :( 16:50:23 <clokep_work> Yes. :-/ 16:50:55 <clokep_work> I've finally convinced most of my friends who use it to let me troubleshoot their issue first. Although I always feel bad of "live with it until next release" 16:51:13 <clokep_work> I try to give them some priority though, make them feel some ownership if we have bugs. :) 16:51:31 <clokep_work> I'll reply to that guy on twitter later telling him to try again and it was probably a network issue. 16:51:45 <aleth> It's just correlation vs causation really... a known trap when you don't know enough about something 16:52:16 <flo> when he said "Perfect - just used an older version of Instantbird. Everything is right with the world.", I first thought it meant the problem was BECAUSE he was using an old version 16:52:34 <flo> aleth: exactly. 16:52:47 <aleth> Is it conceivable he had a SSL issue and did not notice the error message? 16:52:49 <flo> but it's upsetting when you do know and tell them and they won't believe you anyway 16:52:56 <aleth> Yes 16:53:08 <flo> that's possible, although I don't think an SSL issue would be fatal on facebook 16:53:33 <flo> he may also have had a coworker with a bad DNS server, and random interruptions of his internet connection because of that ;) 16:57:13 <flo> there doesn't seem to be a big difference between http://www.instantbird.com/press/screenshots/0.2-windows-screenshot-homepage-big.png and http://www.instantbird.com/press/screenshots/1.0-winaero-screenshot-homepage-big.png (even though I took the aero version for 1.0) 16:57:32 <flo> and I'm not sure there's even a single visible difference between 1.0 and 1.1) 16:58:18 <aleth> I dunno, it does look like it had a subtle polish 16:58:38 <aleth> The changes to 1.1 are in the aero buddy list 16:58:51 <clokep_work> flo: The changes to 1.1 is the list of chat rooms in the contact list. ;) 16:58:55 <aleth> (I remember because I did the Linux version of that) 16:59:26 <flo> we haven't updated the screenshots on ib.com anyway :-D 16:59:48 <aleth> You only notice when there are conversations on hold anyway :P 17:00:34 <clokep_work> Yes. :P I usually have ~20 of those. 17:02:19 <flo> do you still need vertical tabs then? 17:03:08 <clokep_work> Without vertical tabs, you can only see 3 or 4 conversations at a time, I usually still have a handful in my window active. 17:03:30 <clokep_work> (I usually talk to ~3 people always + #instantbird + usually #maildev + a couple randoms) 17:04:15 <flo> I usually have ~5 tabs in my conv window 17:04:25 <flo> when there's more, I start closing/putting on hold stuff 17:04:50 <flo> I guess at some point I'll need an add-on to do that automatically, like on Firefox :) 17:05:14 <clokep_work> If I had that I could probably do without Vertical Tabs. 17:05:23 <clokep_work> (Although I kind of like them Vertical anyway. :P I do the same in Fx.) 17:05:28 --> jb has joined #instantbird 17:05:54 <aleth> It's the beauty of the add-on system that you can have lots of tiny add-ons implementing individual features 17:05:57 <flo> it's a rather good thing that you like your add-on anyway :) 17:06:22 <clokep_work> If I stopped using it, I'd stop maintaining it...;) 17:06:46 <flo> you could have friends using/depending on it ;) 17:07:06 <clokep_work> I think the only person I know who uses it is deOmega. 17:08:26 <clokep_work> Although there's apparently another 148. :P 17:09:08 <clokep_work> Did we release on Oct 19th or so? 17:09:10 <aleth> Hey, that's 1/10 of the users :P 17:09:11 <clokep_work> I have a huge spike in users... 17:09:45 <flo> Oct 18th 17:09:57 <clokep_work> That would do it. ;) 17:10:15 <flo> more users checking for updates when updating the application maybe 17:10:29 <clokep_work> Maybe. 17:10:35 <clokep_work> It leveled off to what it was before though https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/statistics/addon/244/ 17:10:47 <flo> like http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/stats/ 17:13:01 <flo> it matches pretty well around the time of the 1.0 release too :) 17:13:15 <clokep_work> Yup! 17:15:36 --> igorko has joined #instantbird 17:15:52 <igorko> hi 17:17:09 * igorko trololols 17:17:15 <igorko> btw 17:17:46 * igorko should post the post in separate post :D 17:17:58 <igorko> i mean /me should post the post in separate post :D 17:18:09 <igorko> is this bug reported? 17:18:22 <clokep_work> What? 17:18:30 <igorko> use /me 17:18:37 <clokep_work> ... 17:18:52 <igorko> clokep_work will be displayed like you typed it 17:19:03 <clokep_work> It's italic. 17:19:07 <igorko> but it should be separate quote\ 17:19:25 <igorko> i'm using default message theme and it looks like 17:19:32 <clokep_work> You mean a separate bubble/ 17:19:38 <igorko> yep 17:19:38 <clokep_work> Why? It's still from the same person... 17:19:41 <igorko> bubble ) 17:19:54 <igorko> but it breaks the idea of /me 17:20:03 <igorko> it should be says from third person 17:20:09 <igorko> sayed* 17:20:42 <clokep_work> /me corresponds to an action... 17:20:54 <clokep_work> Idk if it's really a third person... 17:20:59 <aleth> igorko: You would prefer it displayed as a system message? 17:21:43 <igorko> clokep_work 17:21:43 <igorko> *** clokep_work corresponds to an action... 17:21:49 <igorko> :( 17:22:17 <igorko> aleth: don't have system messages qtm so don't know how it looks 17:22:21 <igorko> atm* 17:22:35 <igorko> just didn't notice 17:22:45 <clokep_work> igorko: It's just the styling different clients use... 17:22:50 <clokep_work> It might even be part of the message style. 17:25:00 <igorko> empathy adds it as separate message 17:25:02 <igorko> :) 17:25:09 <clokep_work> flo: Who owns that IRC page / did aleth contact them yet? 17:25:09 <igorko> it also uses bubbles... 17:25:12 <clokep_work> igorko: Then file a bug. 17:26:22 <flo> clokep_work: if we are talking about the same page, lsblakk 17:26:23 <aleth> clokep_work: afai can tell it's lsblakk, who is not online atm 17:26:23 <igorko> clokep_work: web IRC client , attached to sumwars site also uses separate message :p 17:26:53 --> Mook_as has joined #instantbird 17:27:11 <clokep_work> OK, I just don't want to duplicate effort. We should also get #instantbird listed under https://wiki.mozilla.org/IRC#Commonly_Used_Mozilla_IRC_Channels if we can. 17:27:20 <clokep_work> igorko: What? 17:27:35 <clokep_work> Naming what other clients do, doesn't mean it's necessarily the "right" thing to do. 17:27:38 <igorko> http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=sumwars 17:27:52 <igorko> do you think it's wrong? 17:28:00 <igorko> i think it's good 17:28:12 <igorko> to add separate message 17:28:53 <flo> I don't understand what you dislike in our current behavior 17:28:54 <clokep_work> Personally I do not want a separate message bubble for it, they're meant to combine messages from the same user to avoid duplicating information. 17:31:03 <clokep_work> lsblakk hasn't been on in a day and 14 minutes or something apparently. ;) 17:32:11 <flo> probably working from california ;) 17:32:26 <flo> s/California/west coast/ 17:43:00 <clokep_work> Yup yup. 17:47:33 <-- MadWookiee has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1) 17:48:02 <Mook_as> whoever Linostar was managed to add a link to the tunisia channel, so that page might not be protected. 17:48:46 <Mook_as> (.... but maybe I'm thinking of the wrong page) 17:48:51 <clokep_work> Whether it's technically possible to or not I just don't wanna piss people off. :P 17:51:13 <flo> especially if we want these specific people to advocate for us in the future ;) 17:52:25 <clokep_work> Yes. :) 17:52:41 * clokep_work could use a buddy pounce right now. ;) 17:56:36 <-- gerard-majax has quit (Ping timeout) 18:14:41 <clokep_work> Is MozCamp this weekend? 18:17:42 <flo> yes 18:17:56 <flo> I'll be flying to Berlin tomorrow afternoon 18:22:05 <clokep_work> They should stream this stuff. ;) 18:24:11 <flo> not really 18:24:15 <flo> well, maybe the keynotes 18:24:37 <flo> but the point is more to meet people in real life and to have contributors who never see themselves feel connected to each other 18:27:08 <flo> the first few slides are at http://queze.net/goinfre/slides-moz-camp2011/ 18:27:15 <flo> I'll try to finish that this evening :) 18:27:16 <clokep_work> Right. 18:28:11 <flo> I've never looked at the video of my first Mozilla presentation 18:28:23 <clokep_work> Am I allowed to comment on parts of it / ask questions? 18:28:24 <clokep_work> :P 18:28:34 <flo> it was in french (http://mozilla.queze.net/maow/) 18:28:38 <flo> sure 18:28:43 <clokep_work> "Internet users in France spent [online] an average of 27 hours per person." an average of 27 hours...per what? 18:28:45 <clokep_work> Per day? ;) 18:28:48 <flo> month 18:28:51 <flo> that was in February 18:28:56 <flo> 2009 18:29:18 <clokep_work> Ah, OK. That makes sense then. Reading the slide I was confused though 18:29:33 <flo> when looking only at the slides, you are obviously missing what the speaker's going to explain ;) 18:29:37 <flo> you just see the topics 18:30:03 <flo> how does the plate of the AMI look? 18:30:32 <flo> I was annoyed that the number there was way too obvious and attracting the eye, so I thought I could as well put something more related to the presentation 18:31:03 <clokep_work> :) Looks nice. 18:31:40 <flo> I think when reading the quote I'll say "per person per month" 18:31:50 <aleth> nice numberplates :D 18:32:26 <flo> in the "evolution" part, before the old AIM screenshot, I wanted to put a picture of the instant messaging client I've found in the basement when emptying my grandparents' house, but I don't have a picture of it :( 18:32:56 <aleth> a telegraph? 18:33:17 <flo> yes! 18:34:42 <flo> back later 18:34:43 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 18:34:54 <clokep_work> Looks good! :) I like the quote. ;) 18:36:54 <-- ghinda has quit (Client exited) 18:40:58 --> mmkmou has joined #instantbird 18:41:29 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 18:41:32 --> aleth has joined #instantbird 18:45:23 <-- clokep_work has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 19:03:36 --> gerard-majax has joined #instantbird 19:05:56 <-- igorko has quit (Ping timeout) 19:28:38 --> ecaron has joined #instantbird 19:33:35 --> DGMurdockIII has joined #instantbird 19:34:40 <-- ecaron has quit (Ping timeout) 19:36:32 <DGMurdockIII> 2(jb2): hey is this ths the same jb from vlc? 19:45:51 --> ecaron has joined #instantbird 19:48:38 --> clokep_work has joined #instantbird 19:48:38 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep_work 19:49:20 <-- ecaron has quit (Ping timeout) 19:49:28 --> ecaron has joined #instantbird 20:03:32 --> flo has joined #instantbird 20:03:33 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 20:06:24 <flo> clokep_work: https://twitter.com/#!/mortonfox/status/134708343704006657 apparently we still have a lot of twitter work ahead ;) 20:08:12 <clokep_work> flo: Yeah I'm sure. :( What does "in-reply-to" mean? 20:08:21 <flo> I don't know 20:08:27 <clokep_work> And we handle mentions. 20:08:50 <flo> I think he wants that in a separate tab, because his timeline is probably floaded with tweets we never reads 20:10:22 <clokep_work> It's really easy to have information overflow on Twitter, yes. 20:10:46 <flo> s/we/he/ 20:20:58 <flo> I asked more details on what the "in-reply-to timeline" was, here's the answer https://twitter.com/#!/mortonfox/status/134726926446247937 20:23:45 <-- mmkmou has quit (Ping timeout) 20:25:30 <clokep_work> We can't really get that from Twitter easily. :-X 20:25:51 <clokep_work> (What would we do anyway, just open another conversation with it?) 20:26:21 <flo> I think so. 20:26:42 <flo> we should eventually find a way to make me stop going to twitter.com to check what a tweet was replying to ;) 20:30:33 <clokep_work> Yes. :( 20:33:54 <-- wesj has quit (Ping timeout) 20:35:44 <aleth> Just got disconnected on an XMPP account, and it did not auto-reconnect. (This not on wireless) 20:36:12 --> wesj has joined #instantbird 20:36:25 <clokep_work> Was there an error or just disconnected? 20:36:27 <clokep_work> Was it facebook? :P 20:36:55 <aleth> No error, certainly no facebook :) 20:37:15 <clokep_work> (If it was Facebook, I was just going to blame them. ;)) 20:38:26 <flo> maybe we can blame facebook just because we always do, even when no facebook account is involved? ;) 20:38:46 <flo> I used to blame MSN though :) 20:44:34 <-- wesj has quit (Input/output error) 20:44:59 --> wesj has joined #instantbird 20:57:45 <-- clokep_work has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 21:48:36 --> mmkmou has joined #instantbird 21:52:32 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 21:52:32 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 21:58:53 <-- mmkmou has quit (Ping timeout) 22:01:45 <-- gerard-majax has quit (Ping timeout) 22:03:33 <clokep> Didn't I fix this issue with Twitter always giving you the full timeline already? :P 22:04:20 <flo> what's that referring to? Is someone complaining somewhere? 22:04:46 <clokep> Each time I restart Instantbird it's giving me all the tweets in my timeline instead of using the lastMessageId parameter... 22:05:32 <flo> are you starting it on different machines? 22:06:19 <clokep> Nope. 22:06:22 <clokep> Let me restart and check. 22:06:28 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 22:06:42 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 22:06:42 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 22:06:53 <clokep> flo: Is my crasher causing it maybe? 22:07:04 <flo> oh yes! 22:07:24 <flo> if you are crashing preferences changed in the last few seconds before the crash aren't saved to disk 22:07:36 <clokep> OK. 22:07:47 <clokep> And we write that out during the unInit, i.e. in the last few seconds... 22:08:24 <clokep> Am I the only one to have that crash? 22:08:32 <flo> yes 22:08:48 <flo> (you are the only one sending reports for it at least) 22:09:41 <aleth> How many people are on the nightly, on average? 22:10:01 <flo> I don't know 22:10:40 <flo> we have the data in the logs to answer the question, but I've never took the time to extract the answer 22:10:44 <flo> *taken 22:13:04 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 22:13:48 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 22:13:48 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 22:13:49 <-- clokep has quit (Connection reset by peer) 22:14:00 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 22:14:00 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 22:14:48 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 22:15:17 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 22:15:17 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 22:15:28 <clokep> Sorry about all that. :-/ 22:15:32 <clokep> flo: I'm crashing even in safe-mode. 22:15:56 --> goulagman has joined #instantbird 22:16:07 <flo> don't worry too much about it 22:16:27 <flo> it should be easier to fix now that libpurple's (un)init isn't directly tied to our core (un)init 22:16:45 <clokep> Yeah, but it's annoying. :P 22:20:55 <flo> fix it? :-P 22:21:11 <clokep> Maybe if I knew the problem. :( 22:21:30 <flo> it's detailed in the bug 22:21:47 <clokep> Ah. I'll check it out. 22:22:05 <flo> clokep: bug 1017 22:22:08 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1017 cri, --, ---, florian, ASSI, Shutdown crash [@ purple_blist_node_set_ui_data ] 22:23:27 <clokep> Hmm...I see. 22:35:33 --> mmkmou has joined #instantbird 22:43:14 <-- DGMurdockIII has quit (Quit: get satisfied!  :: core-networks.de ««« (Gamers.IRC) »»» gamersirc.net ::) 22:47:03 <-- jb has quit (Ping timeout) 22:48:54 <-- goulagman has quit (Ping timeout) 23:04:00 <-- mmkmou has quit (Ping timeout) 23:05:12 <flo> clokep: hmm, wouldn't a simple fix be to just uninit all accountbuddies when uninitializing the contact list? 23:06:39 <flo> ah, unInit isn't exposed in the interface :-/ 23:07:11 <flo> I guess we could add it 23:07:57 <Mook_as> how... odd. I managed to add a gtalk buddy twice. (the one added via instantbird always appears offline; the one added from gmail's html interface shows up again, and seems to work.) 23:09:33 <clokep> flo: Well if not we need to move that stuff for Twitter. 23:10:30 <flo> is twitter doing something odd in an unInit method of imIAccountBuddy? 23:10:44 <flo> I don't remember it implementing imIAccountBuddy at all :-S 23:15:00 <clokep> flo: Twitter saves the last message in the unInit method to the prefs and does something else. 23:15:33 <clokep> Ah, it calls "cleanUp" whatever that is. :P 23:15:38 <flo> unInit of the imIAccountBuddy! 23:15:40 <flo> not the accoutn 23:15:56 <clokep> Ohh, sorry. 23:16:05 <flo> I should try to remember that my changes tend to work better when I save all the files I've modified :-/ 23:17:29 <flo> clokep: something like this: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/1064 23:19:16 <clokep> It looks reasonable. 23:20:35 <flo> does it fix your bug? 23:21:07 <clokep> I'll try it in a second. :) 23:21:15 <clokep> Ah I need to go off this profile, I'll be back. 23:21:17 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre) 23:23:51 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 23:23:51 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 23:24:03 <clokep> I can't reproduce on my debug build. :( 23:25:54 <flo> ahah :) 23:26:04 <flo> nobody can reproduce that bug :-P 23:26:57 <clokep> :P 23:28:25 <clokep> The worst type of bugs. 23:29:09 <flo> those that can't be reproduced in the debug build? :) 23:29:32 <flo> if nobody can reproduce it, it doesn't exist, right? ;) 23:31:28 <flo> I've changed my mind for what to say on the last part of the presentation, and I don't know any more what I could say on the major update prompt dialog :-S 23:32:05 <clokep> Is the major update prompt worth showing? If people are familiar with Mozilla what does it really show? 23:32:57 <flo> at FOSDEM, it showed that we need to do some invisible work so that people can receive automatic updates 23:33:56 <-- ecaron has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1) 23:34:02 <aleth> Is it worth reminding people of long solved problems (other than as examples for how far it has come)? 23:34:29 <Mook_as> I like your key points :) 23:34:38 <clokep> So you mean the infrastructure involved in just doing updates? 23:34:54 <flo> if you think the server side of automatic update is a long solved problem, it's just that we have successfully misled you in believing that we know what we are doing there ;). 23:35:13 <flo> Mook_as: those that have numbered items? :-P 23:35:32 <Mook_as> yes, that one, just before Part 2 23:35:36 <aleth> :) 23:35:51 <flo> Mook_as: thanks for this valuable comment! ;) 23:36:02 <flo> aleth: seriously, handling updates is hard. 23:36:12 <aleth> Oh, I have no doubt about that 23:36:16 <flo> the requirement are constantly changing 23:36:19 <Mook_as> and you don't make updates very often, so it's... iffy 23:36:37 <flo> mozilla changes the way it does version numbers and branches 23:36:42 <flo> some OSes are no longer supported 23:36:45 <clokep> :( 23:36:53 <aleth> Right 23:37:18 <aleth> The fact they seem to work almost every day on the nightly gives the wrong impression then for major updates? 23:37:25 <flo> some system suddenly change their identifier (the mac universal build has changed name in the past, so that it's possible to detect PPC machines and avoid updating them to intel only builds) 23:37:37 <aleth> oh dear 23:38:05 <flo> aleth: nightlies are easier: just update to the latest build, and if it fails, that's the user's problem, as he has chosen that risk when installing the nightly in the first place 23:38:52 <flo> also, we need to know at compile time what we will upgrade from, so that we can create the partial update files 23:39:43 <flo> there's also some stupidly complicated logic for handling various channels, but I think we have given up on that. 23:39:50 <aleth> I can see why 0.2 -> 1.1 would be tricky, those are likely users with odd configurations anyway 23:40:18 <flo> aleth: it's tricky for another reason :-D 23:40:25 <flo> 0.2->1.0 was a major update 23:40:48 <flo> we have decided that new releases are minor unprompted updates, so 1.0 -> 1.1 is an automatic minor update 23:41:07 <aleth> Good idea 23:41:09 <flo> but what about 0.2->1.1? Minor? Major? WTF... 23:42:38 <flo> I think we will need to rewrite that system yet another time 23:43:10 <flo> the current system is complicated but fully automated, so that nobody ever has to look at how it works. Yet, since we have put it in place, we have had to add special cases for each release :(. 23:43:52 <flo> so I would like the next iteration to be simpler, less automated, but easy to understand within 10 minutes or less for any reasonably skilled person 23:44:26 <flo> with a web UI showing clearly what's going on, what's going to be updated to what, etc... 23:44:53 <aleth> I had at the back of my mind assumed that mozilla had done the hard work of installers/updaters already and you just had to use it :| 23:45:13 <aleth> Clearly I was wrong 23:46:31 <aleth> Are people also stuck on 0.2 because they choose to be? 23:46:38 <flo> they have done the client side 23:47:00 <flo> 0.2 is the latest version supporting Mac OS X 10.4 23:47:22 <flo> I'm not sure how many people are in that case, probably not more than a handful 23:49:02 <flo> by the way, I've kept that image, the new caption is "The Instantbird team", and my comment will say "there are also all the people who do the work so that you sometimes get an update." (with that image I can talk both about the changes to the application that are listed in the prompt, and about the infrastructure) 23:56:07 <aleth> Are you going to mention a couple of standout detail features and how seamless they are integrated? "Little" things like collapsing system messages, magic copy, merged contacts... 23:56:33 <clokep> Maybe when you talk about how we care about the user and respect their privacy and train of thought? 23:57:07 <aleth> Yes, because that's also kind of unique to IB, that you don't get those features via some menu item, but more naturally integrated 23:58:02 <aleth> nothing like Preferences -> Contacts -> Organize -> Combine ;) 23:58:59 <flo> I'm not planning on demoing instantbird 23:59:51 <flo> I don't really know where I would start if I wanted to talk about special features 23:59:55 <aleth> Was less about demoing, more about an example for the philosophy