#instantbird log on 11 06 2011

All times are UTC.

00:09:41 <aleth> If there is a function x within an observer object that calls another function y within the same observer object using this.y(), why does that produce a "this.y is not a function" error when x happens to be called via observer.x? I suppose 'this' is not defined in that instance but am not sure what to do about it
00:13:56 <flo> can you pastebin that code?
00:14:35 <flo> if you passed a function as an observer, the "this" value is probably wrong
00:14:47 <flo> if you passed an object with an observe method, this should be ok I think
00:15:25 <aleth> yes, I've just discovered using observer.x.bind(observer) works
00:15:47 <flo> it works for the this value
00:16:08 <flo> but then removeObserver(observe.x) doesn't work
00:16:26 <flo> so you need to cache somewhere the value returned by bind(), to pass it to removeObserver later
00:16:51 <aleth> Aha, that's good to know
00:17:19 <flo> it took me some time to debug once ;)
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00:21:14 <flo> I also need to rewrite http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/purplexpcom/src/purpleIdle.cpp in JS, but I'm too tired for that this evening :-/
00:22:16 <flo> Good night :)
00:28:26 <aleth> sounds like that code refactoring is growing and growing...
00:28:31 <aleth> good night :)
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05:04:05 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1147 to WONTFIX.
05:04:08 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1147 tri, --, ---, nobody, RESO WONTFIX, Highlighting multiple participants in the participant list is possible
05:06:56 <Mook> hmm, odd, app.update.channel is nightly, but extensions.checkCompatibility.nightly = false doesn't seem to help (on a trunk nightly, of course)
05:08:50 <Mook> oh, it's a preprocessor define, https://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/toolkit/mozapps/extensions/XPIProvider.jsm#130 - and I bet IB wasn't built to satisfy https://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/toolkit/mozapps/extensions/Makefile.in#44
05:10:02 <clokep> I noticed it doesn't work either Mook, but I never looked into why.
05:10:05 <Mook> hmm, nope, --enable-update-channel=nightly 
05:11:00 <clokep> I assume i twas added before 7?
05:11:25 <clokep> Bed time! :)
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05:12:38 <Mook> odd, PREF_EM_CHECK_COMPATIBILITY doesn't exist at all
05:13:36 <Mook> yeah, it looks like whatever version of XPIProvider I have predates the .nightly thing
05:13:49 <Mook> sadly, about:buildconfig doesn't say
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11:42:32 <flo> hmm, so when I look at http://blog.instantbird.org/2011/02/instantbird-talk-at-fosdem/ and click the slides link (http://blog.instantbird.org/files/fosdem11-slides/), I have a 404 error :(
11:47:56 <flo> http://queze.net/goinfre/fosdem11-slides/ ok, I've just updated that copy
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13:41:42 <clokep> Working on your slides for MozCamp? :)
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14:08:39 <flo> clokep: not really. I was just checking what I can reuse.
14:08:49 <flo> a lot of that content seems outdated already :-/
14:09:09 <flo> (that may be a good thing by the way, it would be sad if nothing had changed since February!)
14:11:38 <clokep> flo: Yes, that's good! :) Refers to 0.2, two releases since then!
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14:12:42 <flo> and http://queze.net/goinfre/fosdem11-slides/update-pings.png is completely oudated ;)
14:13:07 <flo> it looked more promising than the current http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/stats/ though :-/
14:13:40 <flo> even though the scale has dramatically changed with the 1.0 release, I think people are more sensitive to the overall shape
14:13:52 <clokep> Yes, they usually are.
14:14:24 <clokep> You might want to smooth it btw to show the overall trend better since the weekends have the drops every time.
14:17:40 <flo> I don't think that would change much the perception
14:18:08 <flo> if we were showing the values, that would make a big difference
14:18:25 <flo> but when showing the chart, people can easily understand and ignore the week-end drops
14:19:45 <clokep> I just meant to make it look better, not to make the trend look better. :)
14:21:40 <flo> I don't know if anything is possible to make the trend look good
14:21:51 <flo> if not, I guess I should just show an average value for each release
14:21:57 <flo> instead of the chart
14:21:59 <aleth> Well, 1.0 was a big jump, that's what one could focus on
14:22:42 <aleth> It's probably normal you get more people jumping ship along with more people trying it out
14:23:15 <flo> I think the mozilla charts look a bit like that for each release too
14:23:19 <aleth> And the 1.1 bump suggests that there are people watching the project, waiting to see if it is ready for them
14:23:35 <flo> yes, especially given there was no good communication
14:24:00 <flo> and it can be a way to transition to a "we need your help to communicate with your peers and in your locales" speech
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14:24:45 <aleth> and the many comments along the lines of "I'd like to switch, have to wait for feature x to be ready"
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14:25:01 <flo> do we have a good list of that?
14:25:04 <aleth> might attract some devs ;)
14:25:11 <flo> (what people are waiting for)
14:25:14 <clokep> File transfer, voice & video? ;)
14:25:32 <clokep> Although I haven't actually heard that in a while.
14:25:32 <flo> yeah... well, I'm not sure the people who are requesting that are really serious
14:26:17 <flo> OTR, better logs, some (relatively trivial) twitter usability improvements
14:26:17 <aleth> More recently, logging/displaying context messages from previous conversations was cited 
14:26:53 <flo> it also seems the nicklist is too unpolished, but I don't think that prevent people from switching
14:27:12 <clokep> Ah, yes. OTR is cited a lot. :-/
14:27:18 <aleth> Those are more like papercuts that add up
14:27:23 <flo> the SSL issues
14:27:30 <flo> but that just sucks :-D
14:27:39 <aleth> People only won't switch because they run into a problem they can't solve, or because they miss a key feature
14:27:57 <aleth> SSL may be among the former
14:28:04 <flo> I've heard recently "I don't like the icon" :-D
14:28:25 <aleth> You'd be surprised how many people make decisions based on that kind of thing :D
14:28:46 <aleth> Or maybe not surprised at all ;)
14:29:04 <flo> well, if we expect "average users" to make rational decisions on something they know nothing about, there's something wrong in our expectations ;)
14:32:29 <aleth> That's the importance of general polish...
14:32:50 <aleth> it gives confidence
14:32:55 <flo> maybe I'm becoming old or burnt out, but I'm starting to wonder if it matters at all how many users we have, as long as we have enough people here to keep actively improving the software we ship
14:34:33 <aleth> It's not like IB is reliant on rapid growth or anything
14:35:16 <flo> well, the company project I had needed lots of users to be viable...
14:35:52 <flo> but I guess the more I get involved in Thunderbird, the more I'm giving up on ever getting paid to work for Instantbird.
14:35:52 <aleth> Would a larger user base help to get e.g. hosting on mozilla servers or things like that? Is that something you are hoping for in the medium term?
14:36:23 <flo> a larger user base among mozilla employees would certainly help for that
14:36:50 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com added attachment 974 to bug 1121.
14:36:51 <flo> but I also think sharing a significant part of our core with Thunderbird will help in that direction
14:36:51 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 974 on bug 1121.
14:36:52 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1121 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, No longer possible to double click a tweet to reply to it
14:37:20 <aleth> It would certainly be interesting to find out better why people don't switch, especially clued up people like those
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14:38:03 <flo> clokep: shouldn't "Reply" and "Retweet" stay together?
14:38:19 <aleth> My suspicion is logging + sync would be a big thing (as discussed previously) for people who otherwise use a web app
14:38:22 <clokep> That's why I originally put the copy link above it flo. :-/
14:38:29 <flo> aleth: it's possible they have never heard about the project / don't know it exists / don't care at all
14:38:49 <aleth> flo: not after your talk :)
14:39:07 <flo> aleth: yes, I also think sync would be nice for geeks who use several computers
14:39:36 <flo> clokep: maybe between retweet and follow ?
14:40:50 <clokep> flo: Could do that, but I think it'll require some funkiness.
14:40:56 <clokep> What about just at the bottom?
14:41:15 <flo> clokep: sounds ok
14:47:00 <aleth> The Google Translate API has become a paid service :/
14:47:23 <aleth> Just in case anyone is working on a translate add-on...
14:47:42 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com added attachment 975 to bug 1121.
14:47:44 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com cancelled review?(florian@instantbird .org) for attachment 974 on bug 1121.
14:47:45 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 975 on bug 1121.
14:47:46 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1121 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, No longer possible to double click a tweet to reply to it
14:48:01 <clokep> aleth: That stinks. :( I think there was an add-on that uses it?
14:48:06 <clokep> Bing I think has a translate API too.
14:49:57 <aleth> Well, I noticed because the FF gTranslate add-on started giving "Suspected terms of service violation" errors
14:52:24 <flo> have we ever filed a bug for the "double clicking on a nick in timebubbles also selects the hours in the timestamp, which makes copying a nick painful" issue?
14:53:03 <clokep> I don't think so.
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15:07:16 <aleth> How do you check whether an element has an XBL binding? (as opposed to looking at -moz-binding) Was trying to track down how those incorrect listitems happen
15:08:19 <flo> in DOM inspector you can look at the "XBL Bindings" view
15:08:51 <aleth> Yes exactly, I want to know how to do that myself via code
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15:09:19 <flo> no idea, sorry :(
15:09:24 <flo> but I guess you can look at the DOMi code
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15:10:59 <flo> I guess I'm getting close to being able to start the debugging phase for my changes
15:11:06 <flo> I still need to rewrite the offline handling
15:11:21 <flo> then the way accounts observe status changes
15:11:42 <flo> the way protocols create accounts (that's in purpleProtocol and jsProtoHelper, not the core)
15:11:57 <flo> then fix details of the protocol registration
15:12:03 <flo> and I guess I'll be done after that
15:13:42 <clokep> :)
15:14:00 <flo> currently 29 files changed, 1772 insertions(+), 2752 deletions(-)
15:14:02 <clokep> This all needs to be done before anything lands?
15:14:07 <flo> but I'll have more purplexpcom files to hg remove
15:14:14 <flo> clokep: I was wondering that
15:14:28 <flo> maybe I can test and push some patches from my linux machine
15:14:49 <flo> or maybe I should just attach a WIP in the bug, and revert locally to handle all the patches that have been waiting for  way too long
15:18:24 <flo> (or learn to use patch queues)
15:23:41 <clokep> Or have a second tree on your computer? :) That's what I do. :-/
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15:29:20 <flo> I guess I could do that, yes
15:30:14 <flo> I think I'll change the offline handling to something much simpler, so that I can have a chance to understand what goes on with it
15:38:16 <clokep> This is the offline handling of trying to figure out whether there's a network connection or not?
15:41:54 <flo> of changing the status depending on whether necko thinks we are online or not
15:43:32 <clokep> And does "then the way accounts observe status changes" mean that we can remove that weird hack in Twitter where it needs to keep track of whether it's "enabled" or not? :)
15:46:22 <flo> which hack?
15:47:58 <flo> I think I'll remove that file http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/libpurple/savedstatuses.c
15:48:13 <clokep> bug 650
15:48:17 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=650 nor, --, 1.0, clokep, RESO FIXED, Twitter accounts should reconnect automatically when going back from offline
15:48:43 <flo> just need to reimplement http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/libpurple/savedstatuses.c#240 inside purpleAccount
15:49:00 <clokep> :)
15:49:34 <clokep> That Instantbird link someone just posted on Twtter...links to an article talking about Instantbird 0.1 and 0.2. :-/
15:50:46 <flo> hmm, I think we will keep that code (at least for now)
15:51:36 <flo> clokep: it looks like a link farm posting on a site full of ads some content taken from random rss feeds
15:51:46 <clokep> Possibly, yeah.
15:51:46 <flo> and tweeting the link with some keywords
15:52:06 <clokep> Ah, there is lots of ads. :-X I didn't realize that w/ ABP.
16:05:25 <flo> clokep: there's only ads ;)
16:05:47 <flo> at least 5 ads areas
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16:52:14 <Px> Hello again, I'm continue to experiment with Instantbird and try to test it with my primary jabber account, but unfortunately it doesn't work. Accounts window shows SSL Handshake failed error and Error console shows such error:
16:52:15 <Px> Error: Handshake failed  (-8179)
16:52:17 <Px> Source File: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/raw-file/351bf781388d/purple/libpurple/ssl-nss.c
16:52:18 <Px> Line: 342
16:52:20 <Px> Source Code:
16:52:21 <Px> nss: ssl_nss_handshake_cb
16:52:23 <Px> Server: jabber.kiev.ua
16:52:24 <Px> Tried different "Connection security" options, nothing changed. Is this Instantbird problem, or jabber.kiev.ua? They using ejabberd 2.1.8
16:52:51 <clokep> Px: Please use http://pastebin.instantbird.org for large Copy & Pastes.
16:52:59 <clokep> Is it a self signed certificate?
16:53:22 <Px> As I recall - yes, but I'll try to check now
16:53:31 <clokep> Then you need to import the certificate.
16:53:45 <clokep> (Same way you would do it in Firefox, if you know how to, if not I can get directions...)
16:54:57 <Px> I found where to do that, now searching how to get this certificate as file
16:55:31 <clokep> Yes, that doesn't always seem to be easy for everyone to get for their servers. :-/
16:55:55 <clokep> (There's also a way to disable checking of SSL certs, but that has some obvious downsides.)
17:05:56 <Px> Certificate was not self-signed, but import do the trick, thanks
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17:09:13 <clokep> Ah, well it must be something that's untrusted by default. Glad you got it working. :)
17:11:51 <Px> Server's owner states, that it root certificate may be in libpurple by default, but that was more than year ago, maybe something changed
17:12:55 <clokep> We don't use libpurple to check certs, we use NSS from Mozilla.
17:13:02 <clokep> (I think.)
17:14:08 <Px> I see... :)
17:14:57 <clokep> Which I think libpurple can use anyway, depends how it's compiled. :)
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17:37:03 <flo> clokep: libpurple never uses the NSS cert store.
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18:11:09 <aleth> Why does MDN email you your password in plaintext after you create a new account?
18:11:29 <aleth> (rhetorical question)
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19:04:44 <flo> clokep: how do you feel about this for the changes to jsProtoHelper and the js protocols? http://pastebin.instantbird.com/1048
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19:06:01 <flo> I wrote the report* method in jsProtoHelper to facilitate the transition to the new API for jsProtocols. Maybe we can go further by implementing a .base getter that emulates the previous API, but I'm afraid that would make things more complicated for newcomers.
19:07:47 <clokep> There's probably not enough protos to care too much about the transition.
19:08:16 <clokep> Let me read over it though.
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19:12:40 <clokep> So the forwarded protocol doesn't inherit as much from the base it seems?
19:14:35 <clokep> flo: It seems OK. A little simpler. :)
19:16:01 <aleth> The ratio of additions/deletions was almost 1/2 when flo last posted an update ;)
19:16:05 <clokep> Seems strange that there's still a "gotDisconnected" method called...or is that part of the twitter code?
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20:06:37 <flo> clokep: gotDisconnected was part of the Omegle code, and then copied over to all new js proto implementations
20:07:05 <clokep> flo: Should it be reportDisconnected just to match the naming?
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20:09:11 <flo> I implemented a reportDisconnected method in the generic proto, so that would conflict
20:09:50 <flo> my report* methods in jsProtoHelper do exactly the same thing as the old purpleIBaseAccount API that I've removed
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20:09:58 <clokep> Ah, sorry. I read that wrong -- you said it's in each implementation, not in js proto helper.
20:11:15 <flo> clokep: what do you mean with "the forwarded protocol doesn't inherit as much from the base"?
20:11:57 <clokep> All the purpleIAccount attributes that were removed.
20:12:39 <flo> what used to be purpleIAccount is now separated in imIAccount (the part implemented by the UI) and prplIAccount (the part implemented by the protocol plugins)
20:13:03 <flo> so jsProtoHelper doesn't need to do anything for methods that are only part of imIAccount
20:13:15 <clokep> Yes. :) Got it.
20:15:58 <flo> I haven't tested any of my changes yet, so most likely nothing works ;)
20:16:36 <flo> with 40 files changed, 1970 insertions(+), 3413 deletions(-), I don't expect things to just work ^^
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22:59:57 <clokep> flo: Was purpleCoreService one of the things totally rewritten?
23:00:13 <clokep> (purpleCoreService.cpp that is.)
23:17:51 <flo> clokep: not really
23:18:12 <flo> well, all the parts of it that aren't related to libpurple have been rewritten in JS in imCore.js
23:18:24 <clokep> Does that include the buddy icon part?
23:18:30 <flo> but some if its original content remains as a service whose purpose is to initialize libpurple
23:18:33 <flo> yes
23:18:46 <clokep> So I shouldn't look at the aspect ratio bug right now? ;)
23:19:07 <flo> for that file, 8 insertions(+), 695 deletions(-)
23:19:48 <flo> what's that bug about?
23:20:03 <flo> purpleCoreService only saves the file into the profile, it doesn't to any resizing
23:20:25 <clokep> Ah, does it?
23:20:27 <flo> the resizing depend on the protocol-specific constraints, so it's done at the account level
23:20:39 <clokep> Oh, I didn't realize it was done on the fly.
23:21:06 <flo> clokep: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/purplexpcom/src/purpleAccount.cpp#961
23:21:20 <flo> who said I don't write comments in my code, by the way? ;)
23:22:44 * clokep hides.
23:22:48 <clokep> Thanks. :)
23:23:15 <flo> np
23:23:35 <flo> I still have no idea of which bug you were referring to, but I'm not sure I really need to know
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23:25:51 <flo> I hoped I could do some of the last changes needed before trying my patch (and maybe apply and push a few of the patches that have been waiting for too long), but I've just spent (wasted?) over 2 hours with paperwork stuff... :(
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23:25:55 <clokep> bug 896
23:25:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=896 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Aspect ratio not preserved when setting large image as user icon
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23:28:15 <flo> clokep: the current code computing the new size is in libpurple (http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/libpurple/buddyicon.c#1314) and it does attempt to keep the ratio
23:31:29 <clokep> Thanks flo. :)
23:35:17 <clokep> Hmmm...interesting, so I'm not sure what the issue Mic saw is then.
23:35:31 <clokep> The blist should also keep the aspect ratio which I don't think it does...
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23:46:31 <flo> the blist doesn't
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23:47:29 <clokep> Yup, just trying to figure out what the original bug report was about.
23:47:35 <clokep> It was uncommonly vague.
23:48:27 <flo> uh, it's late, I should already be gone (I've a one hour drive ahead) :-/
23:48:30 <flo> Good evening/night
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