#instantbird log on 10 29 2011

All times are UTC.

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00:20:35 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/351bf781388d - Florian Quèze - Bug 759 - create a chat/ folder to contain the core code that isn't related to libpurple.
00:20:37 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/b985510492b2 - Florian Quèze - Avoid cropping the name of conversations on hold that have a very long topic.
00:20:38 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/4438ed97a790 - Florian Quèze - Avoid having an horizontal scrollbar in the Contacts window when the 'Conversations on hold' string is longer than the window's width.
00:23:46 <flo> Good night :)
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08:20:32 <Mic> Hi
08:25:48 <FeuerFliege> hi
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12:25:16 <Mic> Hi
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14:14:01 <aleth> Hi
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14:44:13 <clokep_> It scares me how many people just disable SSL checking when they use self-signed certs...what's the point of even having the cert then? :(
14:44:57 <flo> clokep_: "feel" secure ;)
14:45:27 <aleth> clokep_: thinking it's "better than nothing" ;)
14:45:42 <clokep_> Looks like the waterfall today is all green! :)
14:46:25 <clokep_> Btw aleth great job working with all the stuff for the participants list, sorry we're all "Oh, try this, try that!" We're a picky bunch. :P
14:46:44 <aleth> Nono that's good, that's how I learn :) plus it looks better in the end
14:49:49 <aleth> Btw would there be any interest in this? http://i.imgur.com/VaV9Y.png I restyled the participant count after a suggestion by flo. Clicking toggles the participant list. I thought of it as for an add-on but I don't think would be easy (if at all possible) to modify the xbl's required via an add-on. So I probably won't take it further unless it seems a good idea
14:52:53 <clokep_> aleth: It looks nice. I think you'd want to connect the count somehow to the list though.
14:53:24 <clokep_> Otherwise to me it's "23? 23 What?"
14:53:29 <aleth> There'd be a tooltip
14:53:52 <clokep_> I think some sort of visual connection could be better (like how the selected tab connects to the conversation).
14:54:04 * clokep_ needs to upgrade IE on this computer cause it's really out of date...
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14:55:06 <aleth> Nice idea, but tricky to do I suspect.
14:55:19 <aleth> Tab styling is heavily OS dependent
14:55:58 <aleth> Hmm... you couldn't use a regular tab for the purpose anyway
14:56:25 * aleth checks to see if there are some built in XUL elements for sidebars
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14:58:11 <aleth> oh, you had gone...
14:58:38 <clokep_wp7> I think the tab styling is wrong, just about how they connect 
14:58:46 <clokep_wp7> Yes on my phone now.
15:00:04 <clokep_wp7> If you're dropping the "participants" string i think something else is needed.
15:01:50 <aleth> One could change the "pill" shape to one that connects with the sidebar when it is open?
15:02:13 <Mic> And it should be discoverable that there's an action possible, e.g. a downward chevron like on selected contacts?
15:02:47 <clokep_wp7> Something like that, yes. :-)
15:07:14 <Mic> http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2883/alethmockupparticipantl.png
15:08:15 <aleth> Hmm, I'm not sure that gains us anything over the current design
15:09:15 <Mic> Sure, we can get rid of the grippy :P
15:09:30 <aleth> heh :P
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15:17:43 <aleth> http://i.imgur.com/HS7XQ.png
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15:19:31 <aleth> hmmm
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15:25:28 <aleth> http://i.imgur.com/rz31a.png
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15:28:49 <clokep_wp7> That's not too bad. :-)
15:29:40 <aleth> Could add a down chevron when the sidebar is collapsed, though it's kinda excessive ;)
15:31:44 <aleth> Anyway, the real question is, is it worth pursuing?
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15:43:34 <aleth> It might be too hard to make it look good on each OS
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15:47:28 <clokep_> Anything that will make it better for you is worth it. ;)
15:47:36 <clokep_> I think your real question is "would we accept it"?
15:47:46 <clokep_> And yes, it'd probably be a lot of effort. :-/
15:50:28 <aleth> I think it's potentially a neater look, and an easier way to toggle the sidebar, but hardly essential in any way. So "is it worth it" was indeed a large part of the question...
15:50:48 <aleth> I haven't got my heart set on it if that's what you're asking ;)
15:51:15 <clokep_> Well there's always "more important" things to do, but polish is a lot of what makes a program. :)
15:51:48 <aleth> For sure :)
15:52:35 <clokep_> (In other words, I'm refusing to answer that. ;))
15:52:51 <aleth> Partly it comes back to the old question of how people actually use the participant list, which is unclear to me. I only know how I use it
15:53:18 <aleth> (and most of the time I want it hidden out of my way)
15:54:09 <clokep_> Personally I always leave it up, but how much do I really use it...? Probably not that much.
15:54:24 <clokep_> I definitely use it when I come in and go "Oh, who's here?"
15:54:28 <aleth> Yes
15:54:59 <aleth> I think people who like their chat windows close to maximised are more likely to just want it open
15:55:02 <clokep_> (Maybe it should auto-hide after a certain amount of time is spent on the conversation?)
15:55:13 <clokep_> Yes, I tend to keep my window near the deafult size.
15:56:52 <aleth> It's certainly a little niggle that toggling the state (collapse/open) requires hitting the grippy, a small target
15:57:24 <aleth> Autohide might be nice... but could also be distracting
15:58:17 <aleth> Anyway, I might wait a while and see how the inactive colouring changes how I use it once it's in the nightly
16:04:06 <Mic> What would be a good way to figure out what information people are looking for?
16:04:27 <Mic> When they're using the participant list of course.
16:04:38 <clokep_> User survey? P
16:05:41 <Mic> I was thinking about something more fancy ;)
16:05:52 <clokep_> Get Test Pilot working? :P
16:06:03 <FeuerFliege> mouse tracking?
16:06:25 <Mic> brb
16:07:05 <aleth> eye tracking ;)
16:07:38 <Mic> clokep_: do you know something about Test Pilot btw?
16:09:20 <clokep_> Mic: I know that squib or protz in #maildev ported it to Thunderbird. I don't know how difficult that was.
16:10:22 * clokep_ is looking for the bug.
16:10:52 <Mic> It would interfere a lot with how I use the participant list but I was thinking about this: hide it. Assign a key that opens view that has a few tabs: Activity, Mode/Status, All, .. with each holding a short list of the users that fit there and maybe a 'More...' button to see more if necessary.
16:11:38 <Mic> Maybe better buttons that don't show anything by default so I can't get the information I seek from information displayed on a different tab?
16:11:59 <Mic> Could work to tell how I use the list ;)
16:12:40 <clokep_> Mic: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=679513
16:13:11 <clokep_> Would need the infrastructure for it too though.
16:13:33 <Mic> Should I be scared by a 1.3MB patch?
16:15:17 <aleth> It would need a lot of users to give meaningful results as well
16:15:29 <clokep_> Yes. :)
16:17:12 <clokep_> Does http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/stats/ work for people? Seems to be an empty page for me.
16:17:18 * clokep_ is thinking an IE9 issue...
16:17:24 <Mic> wfm
16:17:38 <clokep_> OK. :)
16:18:06 <aleth> wfm2
16:18:59 <aleth> some new users after all with 1.1 it seems :)
16:19:09 <clokep_> Yes, that's what I remembered too.
16:33:46 <Mic> Here's something I thought about a while ago: http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/6906/ibmockupnewaccount.png
16:34:45 <Mic> I don't think I'll be doing this any time soon, if someone likes the idea and wants to spend time on it: feel free :)
16:35:31 <Mic> And ignore the scrollbar, please ;)
16:39:53 <clokep_> That would be nice for the "blank slate"
16:40:49 <aleth> Mic: I liked that 'drop a new contact here' redesign you did a while ago
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17:09:42 <aleth> Is there an about:config entry to make "Put on hold" the default for conversations as well? I forget
17:11:24 <flo> for all conversations, even the finished ones? no. Why do you need that?
17:11:29 <flo> (it would be easy to do as an add-on)
17:15:08 <aleth> Sometimes there are large gaps in time in a single conversation, during which you close the window. This turns into separate conversations atm, so you don't have context when you need it. So it's kind of  a consequence of the lacking display of the last few messages of the previous conversation.
17:15:49 <aleth> TL:DR A feature of IM is that it's asynchronous
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17:59:42 <clokep_> aleth: I think what you're really wanting is the logs to be added to the beginning of conversations for context.
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18:26:11 <aleth> clokep: sure - I was just going to use that about:config flag (if it existed) as a workaround
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19:31:00 <instantbot> do.not.deliver@gmx.de added attachment 954 to bug 483.
19:31:02 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=483 min, --, ---, do.not.deliver, ASSI, Instantbird default theme has no preview image
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20:19:14 <billysanca> i cant wait to have file transfer in InstantBird! :P
20:20:55 <billysanca> btw, if Firefox = Fx and Thunderbird = Tb
20:20:55 <billysanca> Instantbird = ??
20:21:13 <flo> Ib
20:23:16 <billysanca> obvious, right? :)
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21:31:56 <instantbot> do.not.deliver@gmx.de requested review from idechix@instantbird .org for attachment 954 on bug 483.
21:31:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=483 min, --, ---, do.not.deliver, ASSI, Instantbird default theme has no preview image
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21:36:26 <FeuerFliege> instantbirds facebook-chat is better than the online-chat
21:37:22 <FeuerFliege> especially the online status works way more accurate in Ib
21:41:14 <flo> you are lucky then :)
21:45:15 <flo> I'm trying to fix bug 1089
21:45:18 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1089 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Crash [@ ssl_nss_handshake_cb]
21:45:47 <flo> I've already found 2 possible fixes, but I still crash after applying them, so I'm not sure if there are more similar issues to be found, or if I'm just wrong about it :-/.
21:46:06 <flo> and not really sure of how to debug them either
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21:52:22 <Novarg> not exactly related to instantbird, but anyone happen to have a clue why I can perfectly receive facebook messages via xmpp but my replies won't show?
21:52:34 <Novarg> I'm hoping somebody may have encountered and worked it out before :)
21:58:22 <flo> Novarg: the facebook xmpp gateway sucks. :(
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22:02:06 <Novarg> flo: The thing is that it doesn't work in pidgin either
22:02:12 <Novarg> so clearly, it's not a messenger problem
22:02:35 <flo> pidgin also uses the facebook xmpp gateway
22:02:38 <Novarg> yet I'm totally clueless as to where to look about possible fixage
22:03:06 <flo> you would probably need to become a facebook employee before getting access to the code that needs a fix
22:03:35 <Novarg> only for other people it seems to be working, so I figure I could fix up my configuration if I knew how to
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23:16:16 <flo> Good night :)
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