#instantbird log on 10 26 2011

All times are UTC.

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03:14:28 <Mook> hmm, not sure how I'm going to try to fix multimon issues when I only have a single display :/
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04:07:28 <instantbot> mattdentremont@gmail.com added attachment 942 to bug 772.
04:07:29 <instantbot> mattdentremont@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 942 on bug 772.
04:07:30 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=772 enh, --, ---, mattdentremont, ASSI, Use a sortComparator function on groups to allow easy changing of the order of contacts
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08:52:41 <FeuerFliege> I have noticed a strange twitter behavior, but i haven’t tried to reproduce yet: When I send a tweet this tweet AND my previous tweet will be loaded to the stream no matter how old the previous tweet was.
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08:58:03 <Mic> Hi FeuerFliege 
08:59:29 <FeuerFliege> hi
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09:26:24 <flo> hello :)
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09:27:30 <flo> FeuerFliege: I noticed something similar yesterday, it puzzled me. My stream was empty. I tweeted something. That made appear the previous tweet, with a "6 hours N minutes" text after its bubble. And several seconds later, my new tweet appeared.
09:28:00 <flo> I don't have even the beginning of an explanation for what could have happened to produce that behavior
09:29:14 <FeuerFliege> flo: exactly the same here. My stream looked like that:
09:29:14 <FeuerFliege> 10:45:11 - foobar: bla bla
09:29:14 <FeuerFliege> 17:44:11 - me: [tweet from yesterday]
09:29:14 <FeuerFliege> 10:49:41 - me: @foobar : bla bla
09:30:15 <flo> I haven't tried to reproduce either
09:32:00 <flo> my proposal for MozCamp Europe 2011 has been accepted, so we will have an Instantbird session in the "Product & Technology Track". (that also means I have some slides to prepare ;))
09:35:21 <Mic> That's the meeting in Berlin, isn't it?
09:35:39 <flo> yes
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09:36:24 <Mic> I saw something funny on one of their pages .. let me find it.
09:36:49 <odiug> hello,
09:36:51 <odiug> is it possible to change a label name?
09:37:28 <Mic> "What is the German currency?" -> "Euros! (at least as of Oct18..)"
09:37:41 <Mic> I just hope it will stay like this for quite a while ;)
09:38:03 <Mic> odiug: Hi! What are you trying to do?
09:38:05 <flo> pfff, do they really hope we will have to use some dollars instead? :-D
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09:39:06 <Guido> there are some labels or groups in instantbird
09:39:08 <Guido> i would like to change there names
09:39:44 <FeuerFliege> flo: No, our yellow press wants the gool ol’ Deutsche Mark back.
09:40:27 <FeuerFliege> Guido: that is not possible (yet). 
09:41:19 <Mic> The tags can't be renamed.
09:41:35 <Mic>  You can create a new one and remove the unwanted tag from the contact(s) and add the other tag to them.
09:42:06 <Mic> This could be tedious, I admit :(
09:42:42 <flo> hiding the old tag instead of removing it from each contact can also save some time
09:42:49 <FeuerFliege> Mic: do we have a bug# for that?
09:43:24 <Guido> okee, wil it be in the next version? i just instaled instearbird and like
09:43:26 <Guido> i think i will do that tomorow (changing)
09:43:26 <Mic> FeuerFliege: I'm not sure .. not that we have 4 digit bugs it becomes too many to remember all of them
09:43:27 <Guido> perhaps there can be an add on or something like that, that you can start tis program form your internet browser (like seamonkey, thunderbird, firefox atc.)
09:43:29 <FeuerFliege> bug 1072
09:43:31 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1072 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Tags should be editable and/or removable
09:43:35 <Mic> *now
09:44:10 <FeuerFliege> Mic: ups, I even filed the bug myself 
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09:45:54 <Guido> i found the dutch version, but can't finde a compatiebel english dictionary. i think you are already busy with this
09:49:31 <Mic> I wish we could just install the dictionaries right from AMO (The Mozilla add-ons website).
09:50:11 <flo> I wish we could merge AIO into AMO
09:50:24 <Guido> yes, that would be great
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09:53:09 <Guido> i really like, that you can add "different" users to one user
09:53:10 <Guido> kim @ gmail + kim facebook = kim etc.
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09:57:33 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org denied review for attachment 942 on bug 772.
09:57:35 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=772 enh, --, ---, mattdentremont, ASSI, Use a sortComparator function on groups to allow easy changing of the order of contacts
09:57:56 <flo> I didn't think I could r- the same patch twice in a row for the "messed up indent" reason ;)
10:01:14 <Mic> Mook, Mook_as: http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/7113/mookallevetaerorestyle.png - how do you like that?
10:02:07 <Mic> The lower alert is hovered (maybe this should be different whether the alert has an action connected with it or not?)
10:03:38 <Mic> Guido: yes, that's whar contacts are for. Most likely you don't care if someone is on this or that network, only that he's online at all?
10:03:39 <flo> Mic: aren't these alerts... big? Sounds nice for a 24" screen, but on a 10" netbook :-S. Maybe the size can change depending on the size of the screen? (using CSS media queries, or some JS)
10:05:17 <flo> (or just pick a smaller default size. It seems we crop the text sent to the alert service way before the limit of what you can display in such an alert)
10:05:20 <Guido> yes, exactly and it looks much beter, if you have them as one contact. it's horrible, if you have someone 4 times :-D
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10:06:42 <Mic> This is an extension that replaces the alerts and I guess if it's too big for your screen: you better don't use it? ;)
10:06:42 <Mic> scnr
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10:09:17 <Mic> The variable width of the old alerts is awful imo, I understand why a fixed width was chosen here
10:09:45 <Mic> It might be too wide sometimes, that's true.
10:12:00 <flo> Mic: I thought the extension was an extension to experiment, and intended to be included by default once it works satisfyingly. Sorry if I misunderstood.
10:12:41 <flo> Mic: I didn't suggest a varying width depending on the content, but depending on the screen size.
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10:14:16 <em3> Hey, will the English dictionary be available as an add-on? For some reason instantbird uses my native language dictionary.
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10:15:34 <em3> Alternatively - if the english dictionary is installed anyway - how do I switch to it?
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10:20:30 <Mic> I don't think so: http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/yesterday/#m386
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10:20:53 <Guido> i know some german chats and i think they work like the facebook, gmail and msn chat. it would be interesting if there would be a add on or so wich lets you add such a chat without knowing a lot about it. perhaps adding the side and trying some lees settings
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10:22:08 <flo> Mic: I meant by default in Instantbird, not mozilla-central ;)
10:22:48 <flo> (even though I don't think landing in mozilla-central would require so much work... if we can figure out who a good reviewer would be :))
10:23:21 <flo> Guido: do you have some specific example in mind of these chats?
10:24:01 <Guido> for example schulervz.net and studievz.net
10:24:44 <Guido> i think in every country are some little pages with chats
10:24:47 <Guido> in the netherlands i know hyves
10:25:42 <Guido> it would be to much work to ad al of them and make the program quite big so a opertunity, that you can ad them by your own, if you want
10:26:10 <flo> aleth: about your question related to when to put a comment or not in the code. I don't want a policy of generally adding comments because pointless comments are a waste of everybody's time (both of the writer, who is bored while writing them, and of the reader who can't know the comment is pointless until it's fully read (and the time has already wasted))
10:27:04 <flo> aleth: so I prefer pushing to use explicit function/method/variable/parameter names, rather than putting comments explaining what they are
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10:28:42 <flo> aleth: and then, when something was hard to figure out (we know that either because it caused a bug and we had to go back to that code to fix it, of because it's hard to understand while reviewing, or because it takes too much time to understand again what the code is doing when attempting to read the code quickly), we need to add a comment to ease the pain for the next time.
10:29:06 <flo> I hope this explains why I generally put very little comments, and sometimes put in a large comment ;).
10:30:55 <Mic> Guido, Guido1: I had an add-on that does this for  mein/Studi/SchuelerVZ but it required funny things in the username (their XMPP server sucks)
10:31:22 <Mic> That's why it never became public on the add-ons website
10:37:28 <Mic> Another major release of Chrome .. I guess a typo was fixed somewhere?
10:37:33 <Mic> scnr
10:38:51 <Guido> i know nimbuzz with integreated hyves chat, but that is sometimes strange too. ther is the online icon, but the comment "offline" :-D
10:38:53 <Guido> this addon could be interisting. than i would perhaps start using studie/mein vz again. it was mor generarly.
10:40:18 <Mic> You don't need this Nimbuzz thing anymore, they have an XMPP server and if you add an XMPP account with the correct details then you can connect to *VZ with Instantbird right away
10:41:28 <Guido> i'm just thinking about stopping using nimbuzz. i only hafe to finde ot the place from the history and if i can read it without the program
10:50:37 <Guido> okee, than i have to find out the settings
10:50:53 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 938 on bug 1097.
10:50:55 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1097 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Tab complete is case sensitive
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10:53:33 <clokep> Mic probably has them written down somewhere Guido. ;)
10:55:19 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 916 on bug 1062.
10:55:21 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1062 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Add "copy link to tweet" to tweet context menu
10:55:59 <Guido> i think i found the server, but the username seams to be wrong
10:59:36 <flo> clokep: about https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/attachment.cgi?id=920&action=diff
10:59:56 <flo> shouldn't the string be "send a message without processing commands." ?
11:00:03 <flo> (rather than "without command processing")
11:00:53 <clokep> That's fine w/ me.
11:00:56 <clokep> Sounds less technical.
11:01:04 <Mic> Guido: you need to replace the add in your emailadress with .. \40 ?
11:01:19 <Mic> I'm not sure .. that was the stupid thing that they need you to do :(
11:01:25 <Mic> *@
11:01:34 <Guido> one \ or two?
11:01:43 <Mic> backslash fourty
11:02:06 <Mic> I think one
11:02:26 <Guido> okee, cause i found something with \ and got an error
11:02:55 <Guido> there was written \\
11:03:12 <Mic> If one doesn't work then try two
11:03:21 <Guido> ja, thanks, it works :-)
11:03:50 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 920 on bug 1036.
11:03:52 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1036 tri, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, /say does not have help information
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11:04:15 <clokep> Apparently I suck at strings? ;)
11:04:20 * clokep is off to work.
11:04:24 <Mic> Their server did stupid things with offline contacts and/or names of contacts if I remember correctly. No idea if it is actually usable
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11:04:46 <flo> I'm scared by the behavior of the l10n conversion hook :(
11:05:07 <flo> It just attempted to convert "440 Merge the js-proto branch." (and failed, so no damage done this time :-D)
11:06:02 <flo> clokep: "Apparently I suck at strings? ;)" They are hard to get right ;). + we should probably take some advice from someone interested in l10n each time we add one ;).
11:06:18 <flo> oops, the l10n hook failed, but we needed it to work this time, as I actually pushed new strings
11:06:19 <flo> arg :(
11:06:24 <flo> I'll need to fix it asap :(
11:06:31 <flo> anyway, away for lunch!
11:07:04 <Guido> i understand what you mean :-D schuelervz works, but studi not :-D
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11:11:37 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/7e4bbbb830b7 - Patrick Cloke - Bug 1036 - /say does not have help information, r=fqueze.
11:11:38 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/ed7ae3c364bc - Patrick Cloke - Bug 1062 - Add 'Copy Link to Tweet' to tweet context menu, r=fqueze.
11:11:39 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/f8d66422ae98 - Patrick Cloke - Bug 1087 - No entities in outgoing tweets, r=fqueze.
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11:17:12 <instantbot> do.not.deliver@gmx.de added attachment 943 to bug 1071.
11:17:15 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1071 enh, --, ---, benediktp, ASSI, Improve look of contact drop target
11:18:47 <FeuerFliege> mic: what do you think about my patch for 1071?
11:30:09 <Guido> mic: is ther somethinmg special by studivz?
11:34:10 <Mic> StudiVZ and schuelerVZ use different servers, no idea if you saw this
11:34:46 <Mic> FeuerFliege: will look at the patch later but the right padding/margin with the wide window looks strange to me
11:36:31 <Mic> I'm not happy with the look of opened contacts in general but so what ;)
11:36:58 <Mic> bbl
11:37:53 <Guido> i for studivz i tyed jabber.vz.net and jabber.studivz.net
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11:41:32 <Guido> oh, it works. domain vz.net instead of studivz.net
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11:42:25 <Guido> great progam :-)
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11:50:32 <Guido> i just head a look at the history. wy is it sorted by comunity and not by users?
11:51:07 <clokep_work> Guido: It might help to note somewhere what settings you used by the way. :) (Whether it be on our wiki or somewhere...)
11:52:12 <Guido> do you mean the settings for studi and schuelervz? 
11:52:25 <clokep_work> Yes.
11:52:41 <clokep_work> FeuerFliege: I like that patch, reduces the height a little bit.
11:52:54 <Guido> i will do so later (tomorrow morning i have exam)
11:53:38 <clokep_work> Good luck then! Shouldn't you be studying?! ;)
11:54:15 <Guido> i wil keep reading the book
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12:08:00 <FeuerFliege> is it possible to look at the saved passwords?
12:08:15 <clokep_work> FeuerFliege: Yes, they're in your preferences.
12:08:23 <clokep_work> If you open about:config.
12:08:39 <clokep_work> I forget the preferences names though. :( Search for like "account" maybe?
12:08:46 <clokep_work> (Or password probably. ;))
12:09:02 <FeuerFliege> thx
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12:12:13 <Mic> clokep_work: the correct settings should be somewhere on my computer and I put them into an protocol overlay add-on
12:12:50 <clokep_work> Mic: I meant online though. :)
12:12:50 <Mic> it was just not accepted because of the funny stuff that they require with the username (having to replace @ in the email adress with \40 )
12:13:12 <Mic> I never looked at it if I can replace that automatically when setting up an account
12:13:35 <clokep_work> Right. And if the server does other funny stuff...well JS-XMPP shoul,d be more extensible.
12:13:45 <Guido> i added hyves too
12:14:37 <Guido> server: chat.hyves.nl
12:14:39 <Guido> domain: hyves.nl
12:16:54 <Mic> hmm, maybe a small webpage could be cool. Enter details, point to icon click to download generated xpi, ready to upload to AIO
12:17:17 <Mic> And it seems I missed a comma in this list ;)
12:18:17 <Guido> don't know how to do this :-S
12:18:23 <Mic> It was inactive .. I'll test and see: https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/254/
12:18:39 <Mic> Guido: sometimes I talk to myself here ;)
12:19:42 <clokep_work> Or you could just add them to https://wiki.instantbird.org/Override_Protocols ;)
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12:27:42 <flo> clokep_work: so for bug 750 you don't want to play more with submenus, and we take it as is? :)
12:27:45 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750 enh, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Expand Tray Icon context menu with commonly used actions
12:30:29 <clokep_work> flo: That's OK with me. I don't use a tray icon anyway and it's not like we have lots of stuff in the menu, so I agree a submenu is probably excessive.
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12:40:25 <Mic> clokep_work: did you need to update you LJ talk protocol plugin with anything but the new component registration in the manifest file?
12:41:41 <clokep_work> Mic: I don't think so, it could probbaly take advantage of imXPCOMUtils.
12:41:54 <clokep_work> Besides that, I think everything is still in jsProtoHelper.
12:42:52 <Mic> I think I found something ... 
12:43:18 <Mic> You're using XPCOMUtils.generateNSGetFactory() while my ones contain some generateModule() stuff
12:45:58 <Mic> I guess that was part of the registration stuff changes? 
12:46:06 <Mic> i never really understood all that :S
12:46:49 <Mic> I guess I should replace all of them .. they're not even using jsProtoHelper
12:46:57 <Mic> *need to
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12:47:49 <clokep_work> Mic: How could you be doing it without jsProtoHelper?
12:47:56 <clokep_work> Also did you download my code to look at it?
12:48:05 <clokep_work> The example on the webpage might not be up to date.
12:48:08 <Mic> Yes, that's how I found out the differences.
12:48:17 <Mic> (checking against your code)
12:48:20 <clokep_work> I'd really like to jus theavily comment LJ Talk and use that as an example anyway. :)
12:48:21 <clokep_work> Ah, OK.
12:48:27 <Mic> clokep_work: I guess it's just terribly out of date.
12:48:42 <clokep_work> For really simple XMPP overrides, I almost wish we could treat it as a list of servers + an icon. :-/
12:48:46 <Mic> Something that predates jsProtoHelper? ;)
12:51:32 <clokep_work> :)
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13:00:17 <Mic> "An exception occurred while initializing purplexpcom", pffff.
13:00:20 <Mic> Not now then ;)
13:00:40 <flo> I hate that we can get that when a protocol overlay :(
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13:08:08 <Mic> bye
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13:36:45 <flo> I'm looking at the list of the files we currently have in our hg repository.
13:38:59 <flo> I'll try to reorganize our 2 instantbird/ and purple/ directory trees ASAP into these 3: instantbird/ (Instantbird specific UI and build system files), purple/ (GPL'd code used to interract with libpurple + libpurple and its dependencies) and chat/ (all the code that can be shared with Thunderbird, and should (I think) land in comm-central).
13:40:38 <flo> we may want to consider landing the instantbird/ repository into comm-central later, but that's more of a policy decision from Mozilla. If we do that, purple/ could become a separate repository for the add-on designed to integrate libpurple protocol plugins into Instantbird/Thunderbird.
13:51:17 <flo> instantbird/app/profile/{Makefile.in,extensions/Makefile.in,extensions/\{972ce4c6-7e08-4474-a285-3208198ce6fd\}/Makefile.in} seem like they could be merged into instantbird/app/Makefile.in
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13:57:17 <Guido> hello, if i change the members of a group in instantbird and start the program again, the changes are gone. i just recogniced this by the facebook contakts. the lists are imported from facebook so i think ther is a syncronisationproblem
13:57:54 <flo> Guido: the facebook contact list can only be modified from the facebook website.
13:58:16 <flo> That's the reason why I would advice to add tags rather than only remove them, and then hide the facebook tag from the list, rather than attempting to remove it
13:59:16 <Guido> so i have to delet them on facebook and make new ons in the messenger, if i want to change the members in instantbird
13:59:28 <flo> no
13:59:59 <Guido> will ther be problems with 2 times the same tak? one self made and one from facebook imported one
14:00:10 <flo> well, yes, if you were talking about the facebook groups rather than the contacts they contain :)
14:00:30 <flo> no, that will just work :)
14:00:57 <Guido> thats great :-)
14:02:01 <FeuerFliege> flo: most tweets about instantbird seem to be russian 
14:02:58 <flo> FeuerFliege: the only popular website that has talked about Instantbird 1.1 is Russian.
14:03:02 <flo> so there's some logic in that ;)
14:03:30 <FeuerFliege> yeah, i noticed no major german side mentioned the 1.1 release.
14:03:52 <FeuerFliege> you should have named it 7.0.1 ^^
14:04:20 <Guido> ther is a problem. i cant have two takes called "vriends"
14:04:29 <flo> maybe the next version should just be Instantbird 11 (just remove the dot :-D)
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14:05:53 <FeuerFliege> Guido: is one not enough?
14:06:43 <Guido> one name is imported from facebook, but i can't save changes on it in instantbird
14:07:20 <flo> http://blog.instantbird.org/2011/10/weekly-meeting-october-17-2011/ seems to me like it could be read "Instantbird 1.1 has SSL issues with Gtalk and focus issues on the buddy list." (and someone here yesterday clearly read it like that)
14:07:50 <flo> sould probably be edited to look like in http://blog.instantbird.org/2011/10/weekly-meeting-october-10-2011/
14:08:01 <flo> s/sould/that section should/
14:09:03 <FeuerFliege> flo: yeah, you /could/ read it that way
14:10:09 <flo> "Instantbird 1.1:" would also be renamed to "Final preparation for the Instantbird 1.1 release"
14:10:20 <flo> so that it's obvious it's not issues noticed *after* the release
14:11:03 <flo> posting something with the feedback we have received since the 1.1 release (explaining especially the SSL workaround for self signed certs) would also help :)
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14:30:37 <flo> it's nice to read again https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759#c1 and see that what I think should be done with that bug hasn't changed even slightly since I've become a Thunderbird contractor :).
14:30:43 <instantbot> Bug 759 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Reorganize purplexpcom
14:31:47 <FeuerFliege> Guido: where can you add the information in facebook? I cannot find it. I just see online / offline
14:32:45 <Guido> just on top. somtiems you write a something for al your friends
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14:33:39 <Guido> there is written (in dutch) status bijwerken, foto/video toevoegen and vraag stellen
14:33:56 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org added attachment 944 to bug 759.
14:33:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Reorganize purplexpcom
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14:34:37 <FeuerFliege> Guido: you mean the status on your wall?
14:34:44 <Guido> yes
14:35:27 <FeuerFliege> i thougt you meant a kind of away message for the chat
14:36:05 <FeuerFliege> i don’t know if postings on the wall will and should be displayed in instantbird
14:36:56 <Guido> you just see wat someone postes on his own wall
14:37:18 <flo> hmm, I think the good place for nsIDockBadge* really is in mozilla-central :-/
14:39:25 <Guido> nimbuzz suports this function (only see what others are writing on there own wall, like a status)
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14:47:13 <FeuerFliege> auf wiedersehen! 
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15:18:44 <clokep_> I agree the dock bade should be in m-c or at the very least c-c, does c-c not have that?
15:18:59 <clokep_> I can look at the reorg bug in a minute if you'd like.
15:26:17 <clokep_> Hmmm...it's just a list of files, never mind. :P
15:26:22 <clokep_> I thought it had places to move them to as well.
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17:12:17 <Mic|web> Mibbit's erratic title text behaviour totally breaks Firefox' something-happened-on-this-tab-highlight when it's pinned as app-tab :(
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17:18:46 <Guido> oh, onther nice future would bea function to search your contacts in your own contact list
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17:21:17 <Mic|web> That's requested in bug 631 already :)
17:21:20 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=631 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Filtering buddy list
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17:26:22 <clokep_> Mic|web: Yes, it sucks.
17:31:48 <Mic|web> Bye
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18:18:27 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm added attachment 945 to bug 1097.
18:18:29 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 945 on bug 1097.
18:18:30 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1097 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Tab complete is case sensitive
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18:32:44 <clokep_work> aleth: I think in general we use let wherever we don't /have/ to use var.
18:33:55 <aleth> clokep_work: Thanks, I thought it was the other way round ;) (as let is a more recent addition afaik)
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18:35:43 <aleth> Might have got that wrong somewhere else too then.
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18:37:59 <clokep_work> It is more recent, but it's better scoped, so why not use it? :)
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18:40:51 <aleth> Makes sense. 
18:41:14 <clokep_work> Yup! :)
18:41:22 <clokep_work> Not a big deal though. I still type var half the time. :(
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18:57:20 <flo> using var or let indifferently isn't a problem in old code that is already full of var, but when it's in a code where there's currently no var, I prefer not adding some ;).
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19:00:42 <flo> clokep_work: can we go as far as renaming all the interfaces which really shouldn't be named purpleI<something>? ;)
19:02:24 <clokep_work> flo: I'm OK with it. :)
19:02:39 <clokep_work> As long as we know we'll break code.
19:02:40 <flo> that will clearly break most add-ons ;)
19:02:50 <clokep_work> (And post on the blog about it beforehand!)
19:02:52 <clokep_work> Will it?
19:03:16 <flo> all add-ons including somewhere somehow a .QueryInterface(Ci.purpleI<something>) call will throw
19:03:39 <flo> hmm, it's possible I've put enough nsIClassInfo implementations everywhere that QI calls are rare in add-ons :)
19:05:16 <aleth> Thanks for the info
19:06:52 <clokep_work> I hope so! :)
19:06:58 <clokep_work> And if not, we should add more of them in. :P
19:08:12 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm added attachment 946 to bug 1112.
19:08:14 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1112 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Only show active nicks in color in participant list
19:09:56 <flo> clokep_work: sometimes there are QI calls that are here really just as an assertion
19:10:35 <flo> I have some in the UI code, in some observers, so that if the type of aSubject isn't what's expected, it just throws an explicit message instead of failing with surprising errors
19:12:55 <adev> (re bug 1112, actually either text colour would be OK I think, but I do prefer the slightly larger opacity on the icons in the second variant. Then again I have been staring at minute differences too often now so feedback would be great.)
19:12:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1112 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Only show active nicks in color in participant list
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19:26:54 <flo> aleth: all participants with an icon are active in your screenshot ;)
19:29:09 <aleth> oh no. sorry ;)
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19:30:38 <aleth> hi there instantbot
19:31:10 <aleth> instantbot: botsnack!
19:31:11 * instantbot beams
19:33:35 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm added attachment 947 to bug 1112.
19:33:37 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1112 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Only show active nicks in color in participant list
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19:40:47 <flo> aleth: why do you feed the bot several times a day? Do you think it report your attachments faster if it's well fed? :)
19:41:14 <aleth> heh :) no, it was just for the screenshot, to get a few colored nicks in there
19:41:43 <flo> oh, ok :)
19:41:53 <flo> (by the way, I guessed that, but too late ;))
19:42:05 <aleth> nad 
19:42:06 <aleth> oops
19:43:33 <aleth> I hope he doesn't have tamagochii 'features' and get fat ;)
19:45:07 <flo> if it's too fat, it explodes, and then a new fresh instantbot comes ;)
19:45:38 <aleth> botspawn ;)
19:47:15 <FeuerFliege> botspawn? no problem
19:47:20 <FeuerFliege> bug 1048
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19:47:33 topic changed by gravel.mozilla.org to "Ask questions about Instantbird (http://www.instantbird.com) here|Get Instantbird 1.1 while it's hot! :) |News: http://blog.instantbird.org/ |Nightlies: http://nightly.instantbird.im/ (testing purpose only) |IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/ |Pastebin: http://pastebin.instantbird.org/"
19:47:33 * ChanServ sets mode +v instantbot 
19:49:21 <flo> I almost said that FeuerFliege knew perfectly well how to make instantbot explode, but I decided to not ping you for something so useless ;)
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19:50:18 <FeuerFliege> the pros and cons of a custom keyboard layout.
19:50:43 <aleth> it's bot-man :)
19:50:51 * FeuerFliege pets instantbot
19:50:52 * instantbot smiles
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19:57:43 <aleth> IB is getting some friendly Japanese tweets :)
19:58:39 <aleth> is this true? https://twitter.com/#!/kf4yfa/status/128650636693749760
19:58:43 <aleth> an interesting concern
20:01:13 <FeuerFliege> what is jaws11
20:01:19 <flo> a screen reader
20:01:24 <flo> (nvda too)
20:01:36 <aleth> jaws is a screen reader for the visually impaired, that's all I know about it
20:01:43 <flo> both are for Windows
20:01:55 <aleth> I noticed there were some ARIA tags in the simple message style though
20:01:57 <FeuerFliege> ok.
20:02:10 <aleth> So it might actually work with that one
20:02:11 <FeuerFliege> good night.
20:02:15 <-- FeuerFliege has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre)
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20:03:31 <aleth> According to wikipedia jaws 12 supports ARIA
20:03:40 <aleth> fwiw
20:04:17 <clokep_work> What's ARIA? ;)
20:04:43 <aleth> That's what I asked myself when I edited that style ;)
20:04:45 <flo> something worth a let me google this for you link ;)
20:04:58 <aleth> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/WAI-ARIA
20:06:41 <flo> the "social engineering" part (= filing the bug and explaining in a way that makes seem useful for Mozilla/Pidgin something that is useful for us but only indirectly to them) is what I really dislike about upstreaming patches
20:07:13 <clokep_work> :-/ What patch are you upstreaming?
20:07:15 <flo> for Mozilla it was a lot worse at the time we needed to request approval for patches
20:07:38 <flo> clokep_work: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/1031
20:07:43 <clokep_work> flo: I've started doing searches from Instantbird when buying things on Amazon. :P
20:08:25 <flo> ah, I'll need to give amazon.com wire transfer info too :)
20:12:26 <aleth> :O how do you search from Instantbird?
20:13:43 <flo> aleth: context menu on selected text in a conversation
20:14:13 <aleth> Ah yes!
20:14:43 <flo> I think adding a Google icon on the "Search Google for "<selected textg>"" item would make this more discoverable
20:15:06 <aleth> Dunno, it's where you expect it to be when you need it
20:15:12 <aleth> and consistent with FF
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20:15:22 <flo> but you need to know it exists, before expecting it
20:15:56 <aleth> If you don't think to context click, you won't see the icon either though
20:16:08 <flo> yeah...
20:16:41 <clokep_work> We should add /google and /amazon commands. ;)
20:16:42 <aleth> If there is ever a slow week I suppose it could be a "did you know...?" kind of blog post ;)
20:19:21 <flo> aleth: feel free to prepare some of these posts ;)
20:19:47 <flo> I'm sure ecaron will be glad to hit the publish button on them when that "slow week" happens :)
20:20:24 <clokep_work> Or I would as well. :)
20:20:32 * clokep_work wonders if there's a way to do a "guest post".
20:21:45 <flo> Eric told me that he wanted to give editor access to "lots" of people (well, whoever we think might be helpful) so that they can write posts, but not publish them, so that we can ask people around to write posts for us
20:22:13 <flo> I thought we could for example post once in a while a "Why I love Instantbird" post.
20:22:28 <flo> written by some happy user (I had deOmega in mind ;))
20:26:08 <Guido> nice idea
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21:27:13 <flo> grr, sending a tweet made appear again my last tweet :(
21:28:45 <flo> and by looking at the error console, it's clear that this is a bug of the twitter API :(
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22:02:10 <clokep> flo: Can we reject it somehow?
22:02:29 <flo> clokep: we ignore already displayed tweets
22:02:38 <clokep> Ah, true.
22:02:39 <flo> but as you know, old tweets are no longer loaded ;)
22:03:06 <flo> https://dev.twitter.com/issues/83
22:04:12 <clokep> Right. :P
22:04:17 <clokep> Sounds like a win for my patch. ;)
22:04:36 <flo> yeah, another :-P
22:08:53 <flo> it's too bad we don't have a /follow command yet :(
22:09:01 * flo would like to follow @twitterapi
22:09:06 <clokep> I thought about fixing the bug and didn't yet...
22:09:14 <clokep> I thought you can just do FOLLOW twitterapi
22:09:21 <clokep> (Or maybe FOLLOW @twitterapi)
22:09:24 <clokep> And it might work.
22:09:36 <flo> and will be a very public failure if it doesn't ;)
22:10:16 <flo> hmm, haven't I fixed the Add Buddy dialog for that?
22:10:28 <flo> oh, yes, I have! :)
22:10:31 <clokep> Sounds familiar, yes.
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22:13:07 <flo> and we really, really need to blog about this SSL cert issue. It would be a much better link to give to people complaining, compared to a comment in an unconfirmed bug :)
22:13:24 <clokep> Yes. :)
22:14:25 <aleth> The order of blog posts unfortunately also can give the impression there is a SSL bug in 1.1
22:14:52 <aleth> because the last weekly meeting post is newer than the 1.1 announcement
22:15:30 <flo> well, there is one. But not with gtalk! :)
22:16:10 <clokep> Sorry. :(
22:17:05 <aleth> You just might get people with certificate issues going to instantbird.com and concluding "oh it's a bug" :(
22:17:43 <flo> that line isn't displayed in the short extract ib.com shows though :)
22:17:54 <aleth> and maybe they come here instead :)
22:19:19 <flo> user support is frustrating :(
22:21:34 <flo> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/1032
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22:22:09 <flo> at line 6 he is sure I'm wrong. Because you know, the cert can't be self signed because it worked with 1.0.
22:22:37 <flo> at line 11 it's totally obvious he didn't even read what I took the time to write for him at line 4
22:23:29 <flo> I'm not even sure I want to reply any more. I may become aggressive.
22:23:43 <flo> + messing up 2 separate issues in a twitter "thread" is just horrible
22:25:21 <clokep> That is frustrating. :-/
22:27:20 <aleth> Maybe a little pause before replying again and he can reread what you sent :/
22:27:39 <aleth> twitter's a terrible medium for support anyway
22:28:04 <flo> yeah, trying to be helpful there is just a bad idea :(
22:28:11 <flo> it's an emotion/marketing media
22:28:50 <flo> Eric already told the same person at least once that twitter is not suitable for support, and he should come on IRC so that we can better help him
22:30:45 <flo> well, I guess anybody can feel free to help him. (the twitter username is trivial to find, even though I hide it in the pastebin)
22:31:09 <aleth> you tried ;)
22:37:36 <flo> clokep: feedback welcome on https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759#c4
22:37:39 <instantbot> Bug 759 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Reorganize purplexpcom
22:45:24 <flo> supporting the reporter of bug 1114 is much nicer per comparison ;)
22:45:27 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1114 blo, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, IB Cannot Start: 0x8000ffff (NS_ERROR_UNEXPECTED) [purpleICoreService.init]
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22:49:46 <flo> aleth: have you read my link about writing efficient CSS?
22:50:55 <aleth> not yet... but I did half expect there might be room for improvement there ;)
22:51:55 <flo> any reason for removing the "> .listcell-iconic >" from the selectors I took the time to write to avoid you the burden of reading that document?
22:52:07 <aleth> Yes. I couldn't get it to work.
22:52:19 <aleth> probably because of the change from a class to an attribute
22:52:49 <aleth> I did read your comments you know ;)
22:53:12 <flo> why didn't you ask for help on this? :)
22:54:23 <aleth> I didn't want to bug you when I knew I should just go and read up on CSS a bit...
22:56:31 <aleth> Sorry.
22:57:23 <flo> It's ok :)
22:57:24 <aleth> Probably should have waited on submitting that patch I guess.
22:57:53 <clokep> aleth: Don't forget about pastebin!
22:58:13 <aleth> Oh. Good point.
22:58:49 <flo> by the way, have you tried to keep the GreyText color for the label but to apply the same opacity to both the label and the icon?
22:59:01 <flo> that may not actually look better, it was just an idea...
22:59:32 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org denied review for attachment 941 on bug 1112.
22:59:33 <aleth> That would be essentially the same effect as the first version of my patch
22:59:34 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1112 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Only show active nicks in color in participant list
22:59:39 <aleth> I think.
23:00:00 <flo> the one with hsl(0, 0%, 60%) ?
23:00:49 <aleth> Didn't I post a screenshot with color: gray first? Oh well
23:01:07 <flo> maybe
23:01:09 <aleth> On the last screenshot I posted, do you think the GrayText is too dark btw?
23:01:21 <flo> it's not super easy to know which screenshot is of which patch/modification in the bug :-/
23:01:48 <aleth> Yes it gets really messy :( Wish there was a way to submit a patch and a screenshot in the same comment
23:02:15 <flo> aleth: honestly, the only thing I can think of when looking at these grey nicks is that bold text with a disabled color is odd.
23:02:27 <clokep> aleth: Usually it's good to version them So it's "patch v1" and "screenshot v1"
23:02:59 <flo> but I don't really want to annoy you with that, as the whole list is ugly with bold characters anyway. It's just that the font was even more ugly without bold :(
23:03:42 <aleth> It's really hard to come up with something that looks just right for that participant list :(
23:03:50 <aleth> I agree
23:04:27 <clokep> Is it becoming time to pick the one that we think looks best, land it and tweak it after we've all used it a bit?
23:05:13 <aleth> I am never sure if I am not entirely satisfied because of the general participant list design or because the colors aren't right yet
23:05:20 <flo> clokep: that's what I said in my last comment ;)
23:05:38 <aleth> Well, I'd better learn how to tune the CSS first
23:06:42 <flo> aleth: on Mac the participant have a white text shadow. I'm not sure how that will look with grey labels, and also wondering if the same idea could be reused to help improve the appearance on other OSes
23:07:11 <aleth> So on Mac the background isn't white?
23:07:14 <clokep> flo: You expect me to read all your comments? :P
23:10:32 <flo> aleth: it's blue.
23:11:02 <flo> clokep: I know you usually do (even though it may not always be the best use of your time) :)
23:11:45 <clokep> Half the time I read them when I'm barely awake though. :P
23:11:49 <clokep> Keeps my cereal company.
23:12:52 <aleth> So if I may take the shortcut and ask, why do you need a > _before_ .listcell-iconic, with nothing in front of it? That's what I didn't guess ;)
23:14:03 <aleth> feel free to tell me to just read the damn article (I will anyway)
23:14:13 <flo> clokep: oh, like I do with the irc log then :-P
23:14:37 <flo> aleth: what do you mean with "nothing in front of it"?
23:14:55 <aleth> no other class
23:15:31 <flo> do you know the meaning of the > selector, compared to a space?
23:15:58 <aleth> I thought I did, but I suppose not :( Like I said, I really need to do some reading
23:16:27 <flo> a space is a descendant. > is a direct child.
23:17:12 <aleth> Hmm that's actually what I thought :/
23:17:28 <flo> if you put "a b", when the style system finds "b", it has to check if the parent node of b is a, then if the parent of the parent of b is a, then if ... until it reaches the root of the document, to decide the style rule doesn't match.
23:17:57 <aleth> I see.
23:17:59 <flo> if you put "a > b", when the style system finds "b", if knows the rule matches only if the parent of b is a.
23:18:07 <flo> no need to waste time checking lots of other nodes
23:18:09 <aleth> And the participant list is slow enough already ;)
23:18:43 <flo> right! :)
23:19:37 <aleth> Sorry about the screenshot confusion btw, it would have been better to obsolete the previous ones whenever the implementation changed (as it did twice)
23:19:42 <flo> (by the way, there are lots of CSS rules in Instantbird that could be improved based on what that document explains. It's just too bad I hadn't read it before starting the project :-(. But I'd prefer avoiding adding more inefficient rules)
23:20:15 <aleth> I think I picked up some bad ideas by "learning" from the CSS in message styles
23:20:55 <flo> that's quite possible, it's the place where I would start looking if I wanted to go and optimize some CSS stuff :-D.
23:21:25 <aleth> e.g. clokeps' suggestion with the attribute makes perfect sense once you realise the distinction there is meant to be
23:21:26 --> BlueMaxima has joined #instantbird
23:21:44 <flo> the class was more efficient :-P.
23:21:51 <aleth> oh damn :p
23:22:07 <aleth> want me to revert it then? :)
23:22:09 <flo> but it's right that we tend to use attributes in that case
23:22:20 <aleth> (why btw?)
23:22:20 * clokep was just going with what we've been doing.
23:22:29 <aleth> cos it's just another descendant?
23:22:37 <flo> and it's not a "more efficient" that means the new code would be terribly slow
23:22:40 <aleth> umm direct child
23:22:49 <aleth> parent
23:22:53 <aleth> (ok am getting tired)
23:22:56 <flo> aleth: class names have a special handling in the css engine.
23:23:10 <clokep> flo: Is bug 750 r+ then?
23:23:18 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750 enh, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Expand Tray Icon context menu with commonly used actions
23:23:27 <clokep> (Trying to clean out my bugs. :))
23:23:33 <clokep> Can I mark my own bugs fixed or is that not kosher?
23:24:20 <flo> the last 3 I pushed?
23:24:24 <flo> I hoped you would.
23:24:32 * flo was lazy/tired yesterday
23:24:45 <clokep> K, I'll do it now.
23:24:56 <aleth> flo, clokep: But seriously, since I have to change it again anyways, should I go back to the class version if speed really matters in this instance? I don't mind either way
23:25:08 <flo> no
23:25:10 <flo> keep it the way it is :)
23:25:47 <flo> the speed difference is probably very small
23:26:02 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1087 to FIXED.
23:26:04 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1087 nor, --, 1.2, clokep, RESO FIXED, No entities in outgoing tweets.
23:26:52 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1062 to FIXED.
23:26:54 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1062 nor, --, 1.2, clokep, RESO FIXED, Add "copy link to tweet" to tweet context menu
23:27:13 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1036 to FIXED.
23:27:15 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1036 tri, --, 1.2, clokep, RESO FIXED, /say does not have help information
23:29:04 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 921 on bug 750.
23:29:06 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750 enh, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Expand Tray Icon context menu with commonly used actions
23:32:05 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 945 on bug 1097.
23:32:08 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1097 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Tab complete is case sensitive
23:37:03 <flo> aleth: is the patch from bug 1097 worth committing with your real name? ;)
23:37:06 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1097 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Tab complete is case sensitive
23:37:26 <aleth> nah, that's fine for now ;)
23:40:48 <aleth> Aha!
23:40:51 <aleth>  I get it now, what I did wrong with the > ...
23:41:03 <aleth> Thanks
23:42:23 <flo> what was wrong? :)
23:42:34 <flo> (it's interesting to learn from other's mistakes ;))
23:43:09 <aleth> .listitem-iconic[inactive] > .listcell-label fails (what I had tried before the previous patch)
23:43:34 <aleth> > .listitem-iconic[inactive] > .listcell-iconic > .listcell-label makes no sense (how I understood your comment from earlier when I first read it)
23:44:46 <aleth> It was the "duplication" of .listcell-iconic that I didn't realise the need for
23:45:14 <aleth> sorry, the second snippet should read "> .listitem-iconic[inactive] > .listcell-label"
23:45:34 <clokep> Do we have other open Twitter announces besides the one deOmega just filed?
23:46:56 <flo> you meant annoyances?
23:47:29 <aleth> there's the one with the incorrect character limit counting when a URL is present
23:47:36 <flo> the lack of entities in outgoing messages (which you fixed! :)) was pretty annoying
23:47:48 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/9ff5edcb1619 - aleth - Bug 1097 - Tab complete should be case sensitive only if at least one uppercase letter has been typed, r=fqueze.
23:47:49 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/893f46ec629d - Patrick Cloke - Bug 750 - Expand Tray Icon context menu with commonly used actions, r=fqueze.
23:48:19 <flo> aleth: uh, yeah... hard to fix though :(
23:56:49 <clokep> Annoyances, yes. Sorry. :)
23:57:55 <clokep> Tomorrow's nightly should be nice! :)
23:58:24 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 750 to FIXED.
23:58:26 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750 enh, --, 1.2, clokep, RESO FIXED, Expand Tray Icon context menu with commonly used actions
23:59:01 <flo> clokep: because of the case insensitivity of the completion? :)
23:59:41 <clokep> Because all the bugs I fixed. :P