#instantbird log on 10 23 2011

All times are UTC.

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00:15:50 <Novarg> considering how pidgin supports bonjours os-independently, shouldn't instantbird also be able to?
00:17:16 <clokep> Yes, if someone writes the patch for it. :)
00:17:25 <Novarg> is it not part of libpurple?
00:17:42 <clokep> It is, but it requires a SDK from Apple.
00:18:07 <clokep> So the build magic would need to be done + we'd have to see if we can distribute it or make people download it separately or dynamically build it if the SDK is available, etc.
00:18:42 <Novarg> I'm using it on Gentoo and I certainly did not install any apple SDK
00:19:00 <clokep> Did you compile Pidgin?
00:19:05 <Novarg> yes
00:19:16 <clokep> They don't have an SDK on Linux, there's some open-source equivalent.
00:19:22 <clokep> Your package manager probably pulled it in.
00:19:45 <clokep> Avahi
00:20:44 <clokep> (And I checked, that's only available for Linux/BSD. :()
00:21:06 <Novarg> ah, I see :(
00:21:15 <clokep> There's a bug open about it though if you're interested...;) bug 944
00:21:18 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=944 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Support for Bonjour
00:21:30 <clokep> I'll probably get around to looking at it eventually, but not really a priority (I've personally never used Bonjour)
00:22:03 <Novarg> it's not even like I'd use it much, though it's always fun at university to greet people in the same lan with "bonjour
00:22:12 <Novarg> I can't say I really need it
00:22:15 <clokep> Haha, yeah. I guess. :)
00:22:27 <clokep> It's wanted, just no one has gotten around to integrating it properly. Ya know?
00:22:33 <Novarg> sure
00:22:48 <clokep> More than just compiling another folder, unfortunately. :(
00:23:00 <Novarg> do I need a deep understand of the mozilla core to help developing instantbird?
00:23:03 <Novarg> understanding*
00:23:33 <clokep> Depends what you want to do! :)
00:23:45 <clokep> I mean we have Mozilla stuff, libpurple and then our own stuff.
00:23:52 * clokep tries to stay away from libpurple.
00:23:58 <Novarg> I guess I gotta poke around the source a little bit to see for myself
00:24:01 <clokep> And the Mozilla toolkit we use practically as is.
00:24:15 <clokep> Most of it's written in C++, JavaScript, XUL, a smattering of others.
00:24:28 <Novarg> a big source base such as mozilla's always frightens me before even looking at it
00:24:28 <clokep> And we'd certainly help out if you're interested.
00:24:41 <clokep> Haha. Our source is mostly manageable...at least the parts we wrote. :)
00:24:54 <Novarg> cool, I'll just browse around the hg repo then :)
00:25:16 <clokep> There's also http://lxr.instantbird.org
00:25:20 <clokep> Which lets you search and such.
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00:31:17 <Novarg> where does instantbird store account data? such as passwords?
00:31:34 <clokep> In your preferences.
00:31:44 <Novarg> I mean, on the file system
00:31:59 <Novarg> ah, prefs.js I assume
00:32:01 <clokep> In your profile. ;)
00:32:02 <clokep> Yes.
00:32:17 <clokep> ~/.instantbird or something I'd guess.
00:32:21 <Novarg> yup
00:35:27 <Novarg> is this a mostly French developing team?
00:35:44 <clokep> The main developer is French, yes.
00:35:49 <clokep> I'm not.
00:40:04 <Novarg> my package manager was btw updating libpng at the moment of my asking so I'm positive it'll compile when it's done fixing all the linking breakage
00:41:49 <clokep> Ah, OK. :)
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00:45:34 <Novarg> cool, an omegle addon
00:46:36 <clokep> I hope it works still. :-X
00:46:43 <clokep> If not we should fix that.
00:47:09 <Novarg> is the addons-repo not actively maintained?
00:48:16 <Novarg> last update on oct 15th, looks recent enough to possibly work
00:48:57 <clokep> It is, I just happen to know that I moved some things around in some files and I'm not sure if we updatd omegle or not for it.
00:48:59 <Novarg> hang on, why does it display the same mtime for all files
00:49:33 <clokep> "same mtime"?
00:49:55 <Novarg> all files appear with a last modification time of 2011-10-15 02:46 +0200
00:50:01 <Novarg> here: http://hg.instantbird.org/addons/file/ca4ba6af0b8a
00:50:32 <clokep> I don't know, possibly when the repo was last updated.
00:51:02 <clokep> I need to go do a few things. I'll be back later.
00:51:20 <Novarg> sure, thanks for all the help
00:51:26 <clokep> No problem. :)
00:51:26 <Novarg> I'll stick around for a little longer :)
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01:15:35 <GeekShadow> hello
01:15:45 <flo> GeekShadow: hey :)
01:15:50 <GeekShadow> is there yet a way to share what we are listening with instantbird ?
01:16:22 <flo> no :(
01:16:30 <flo> but if you want to create an add-on for that we will help :)
01:16:38 <flo> (or even if you want it to be integrated by default)
01:16:57 <GeekShadow> depends on protocols right ?
01:17:17 <flo> well, I think libpurple has some support for it
01:17:43 <flo> so I'm more afraid of the "it depends which media player the user has" part ;)
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01:19:05 <GeekShadow> ok
01:19:20 <flo> I'm surprised no American has complained loudly about the IRC logs being split between "today" and "yesterday" making no sense at all for people several hours away from the GMT timezone :-S
01:20:38 <flo> having to look at "yesterday" for things said during the same "day" is surprising :-/
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01:22:36 <flo> Novarg: I'm curious about what it means to you for a project to have a "mostly French developing team" :). Would that be good? bad? surprising? ... (and by the way, welcome! :))
01:23:21 <GeekShadow> flo, are you coming to the mozcamp ?
01:23:30 <flo> GeekShadow: yes
01:23:35 <flo> will we finally meet? :)
01:24:03 <GeekShadow> right!
01:24:25 <GeekShadow> I'm going too
01:24:31 <flo> cool :)
01:28:32 <clokep> flo: Personally I grep my logs when I need things...or it's like the previous conversation I need and that's it.
01:29:27 <flo> clokep: uh?
01:29:32 <flo> I was talking about instantbot's logs
01:30:07 <clokep> Ohhhh.
01:30:08 <clokep> Yeah.
01:30:22 * clokep just knows it rolls over at 8 currently for him. ;)
01:30:38 <clokep> So I get pissed when I get home from work after 8. It means I hvae to type a diff URL.
01:30:44 <clokep> Instead of just pressing F5. :)
01:32:00 <clokep> How was the Summit today?
01:32:31 <clokep> Novarg: Any luck with omegle?
01:32:42 <flo> talked to lots of people whose name I'll never remember
01:33:56 <flo> I really wished I had a pile of Instantbird "business cards" with at least the name, the logo and an URL, so that people to whom I've explained what it is (even though I'm here with a "Mozilla" badge) can remember to go check it out when they get home/to their computer
01:34:50 <flo> and I'm quite tired right now, even though it's not very late. Probably because of the jetlag :-/
01:34:54 <clokep> :( Next time.
01:35:02 <clokep> Yes, only 6:30!
01:35:05 <flo> my phone things it's 6pm, and my laptop thinks it's 3am ;)
01:35:11 <flo> *thinks
01:35:46 <Novarg> flo: just curious about the French team :) though I love being able to work on one project over a large variety of countries. It would be a pity not to make use of it
01:36:15 <flo> I wouldn't say the team is mostly French. That's just not true any more.
01:36:35 <Novarg> I believe the site said something about "Next meeting at xx:xx in French time" or something
01:36:39 <flo> The people who worked on the project during its first months were all French though :).
01:36:57 <clokep> Yeah, but you have to give a reference timezone somehow. ;)
01:37:02 <flo> Novarg: well, Germany has the same time as the French one
01:37:24 <Novarg> clokep: sure, I've just never seen anyone use France as the reference :P
01:37:34 <Novarg> so I had to conclude there was some sort of French background
01:37:55 <flo> maybe you prefer UTC+2 ?
01:38:06 <flo> that's more formal
01:38:12 <Novarg> no, I wouldn't know what timezone that is
01:38:19 <flo> and way easier to mess up with daylight saving changes
01:38:19 <Novarg> I keep forgetting whether I'm +1 or +2
01:38:37 <flo> where are you from?
01:38:58 <Novarg> from Germany
01:39:11 <flo> France is +2 in the summer, and +1 during winter
01:39:16 <Novarg> did you coincidently refer to "Germany has the same timezone"?
01:39:40 <flo> oh, ok. Given that you are here at 3am, I thought you were American ;)
01:39:49 <Novarg> ah :)
01:40:04 <flo> Novarg: I said that because Mic who is often active here is from Germany
01:40:07 <Novarg> the last nights were rather long so I'm having a hard time going to bed early
01:40:56 <Novarg> and clokep: I haven't tried any further with Omegle, I just noticed it in the repository earlier. I may play with it tomorrow or next week
01:41:11 <clokep> Oh OK. :) I forget whether we have it on the add-ons site or not.
01:41:25 <Novarg> I think you don't
01:41:32 <Novarg> or else I would surely have noticed before!
01:41:59 <clokep> Novarg: https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/269 :)
01:42:12 <flo> Novarg: and to answer your "is the addons-repo not actively maintained?" question: it isn't really maintained in the way that a piece of software is maintained, because the goal of that repository is to provide good quality code examples that add-on authors can copy from
01:42:35 <clokep> (But the ones we use tend to stay maintained or we get annoyed. ;))
01:42:51 <flo> yeah...
01:42:53 <Novarg> ah I see, so it's not like an official source to get addons from
01:43:05 <clokep> The add-ons website is.
01:43:08 <flo> but we would be happy to stop touching them if some was volunteering to "embrace and improve" them ;)
01:43:10 <Novarg> yeah ^_^
01:43:45 <Novarg> either way, I really need to catch some sleep. So, I wish you a good night!
01:43:59 <flo> i'll still wait a bit for that ;)
01:44:01 <flo> but good night :)
01:44:08 <clokep> Ciao.
01:44:57 <flo> clokep: about the summit again. Having a "Mozilla" badge is "special", because everybody knows that "we" are doing.
01:45:15 <clokep> Ah, as opposed to some of the smaller groups that no one has heard of?
01:45:21 <flo> Most of the projects/organizations here have names I've never heard before
01:45:38 <flo> (and will never remember)
01:46:43 <clokep> Right. That's good then. :)
01:46:56 <clokep> You don't have like an Instantbird hat or something you can wear? ;)
01:47:00 <flo> "oh, you work on Mozilla, {I use Firefox!, I hate your new release cycles, ...}" 
01:47:07 <clokep> Hahah.
01:49:03 <clokep> I'm working my hardest to fill up your review queue btw. :)
01:49:11 <clokep> Give you something for the flight home. ;)
01:49:12 <flo> "well, actually, I work on Thunderbird, but... hmm, I'm also leading a small volunteer team on a project that's not really a project of the Mozilla foundation, but that I mentored a student for, blahblah instant messaging. blahblahblah It's called "Instantbird": "Instant..." like "Instant messaging" and "...bird" like Thunderbird, it's easy to remember."
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01:49:42 <flo> clokep: are you actually planing on giving me some Internet access in the plane?
01:49:53 <flo> + a power outlet to plug the laptop in?
01:50:01 <clokep> No. :(
01:50:10 <clokep> Next week then.
01:50:14 <clokep> Sounds like you had that conversation often then?
01:51:10 <flo> yes, the "what do you actually work on at Mozilla" is quite frequent (once people realize I may not actually be responsible for the feature they love/hate/love to hate in Firefox) :)
01:51:25 <flo> + "question"
01:51:45 <clokep> Yes, I'd guess most people don't hate the advance properties dialogue or whatever it was that you worked on as an intern. ;)
01:52:25 <flo> I don't really know what I worked on as an intern
01:52:43 <flo> that was mostly fixing bugs blocking the Firefox 3.0 release, no new feature
01:53:40 <flo> I worked mostly on protocol handlers... but I wouldn't be surprised if that feature was dropped someday, as it hasn't been marketed enough to actually become useful
01:53:53 <flo> hmm, or maybe it's used for mibbit?
01:54:23 <clokep> There's a couple of them around. I think irc & ircs use them + gopher and gophers use them?
01:54:28 <clokep> (Maybe?)
01:54:39 <flo> hasn't gopher been removed?
01:54:52 <flo> a mailto handler pointing to Gmail would be very nice
01:54:59 <clokep> Yes. I think if you hit a gopher URL it redirects to the overbite add-on.
01:55:49 * clokep ran out of easy bugs to fix this afternoon. :-/
01:55:53 <flo> I see a gmail handler for mailto links in my Firefox profile, but I'm not sure if that's because my Firefox profile is very old and I did some strange stuff to it years ago, or if everybody has it
01:56:03 <flo> oh, you need more bugs?
01:56:32 <clokep> It might be there by default. I'd check but mine points to Thunderbird.
01:56:52 <clokep> If you have fairly easy things to scratch, sure. :P
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01:57:49 <flo> I've lots of unread bugmails
01:58:39 <billysanca> hey people, r u connecting to google talk?
01:59:13 <clokep> Yes billysanca I'm connected to Gtalk right now.
01:59:22 <clokep> Twice in fact. :-D
01:59:38 <clokep> Are you having trouble?
01:59:43 <clokep> Is there an error message?
01:59:47 <billysanca> :(
01:59:47 <billysanca> since 3 days ago i just cant connect!
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02:00:00 <billysanca> no error message. just keep trying to connect
02:00:19 <clokep> Was this after you updated to Instantbird 1.1?
02:00:37 <billysanca> Error: unable to connect
02:00:38 <billysanca> restarting in 5..4..3..2..1
02:00:52 <clokep> Oh, hmmm...
02:00:55 <billysanca> no, i'm using nightly =P
02:01:28 <clokep> Are you up to date?
02:01:31 <billysanca> 1.2a1 (20111022042519)
02:01:51 <clokep> Yes, you are. Uhhh...I have no idea. Could be a server problem, but Idk. :-/
02:03:25 <billysanca> :(
02:03:55 <flo> anything in the error console?
02:04:05 <flo> have you touched *any* setting in the advanced settings of the account?
02:04:40 <flo> what's after the @ in your account name? gmail? googlemail? a customized domain name?
02:05:15 <billysanca> gmail
02:07:51 <billysanca> after clear console and try to connect:
02:07:51 <billysanca> couldnt look up srv record.
02:07:51 <billysanca> couldnt find slpmsg
02:07:51 <billysanca> error connecting to gmail
02:07:51 <billysanca> connection attempt failed: time out
02:07:51 <billysanca> any idea of what is happening?
02:08:06 <flo> lol @ bug 1108
02:08:09 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1108 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Names of folder and files are not checked against forbidden names.
02:08:17 <flo> that OS really sucks :-D
02:08:37 <flo> still having restrictions from MS-DOS in... 2011 :-D
02:09:01 <clokep> Yes, I think that bug will be fixed when we have better logs though...and probably not before then without crazy hacks?
02:09:12 <flo> yeah...
02:09:22 <flo> fixing the OS would be a better solution ;)
02:09:29 <flo> I'm not sure that will happen soon though
02:10:13 <flo> billysanca: so the real error message here is "couldnt look up srv record"
02:10:36 <clokep> I get that also on occasion, but my accounts all connect, FYI.
02:10:53 <flo> are you behind some kind of firewall/proxy that would prevent you from doing a DNS SRV request?
02:13:22 <billysanca> flo: nope
02:13:22 <billysanca> instantbird used to connect and no hardware changed since that
02:13:59 <flo> that's strange
02:14:19 <flo> if it's a problem at your ISP, it may just be temporary
02:15:54 <billysanca> lets hope so!
02:16:17 <billysanca> but weird that using the gtalk app i can connect!
02:16:47 <flo> the gtalk app may have a hardcoded fallback for when the request fails
02:16:59 <flo> or it may just fallback to HTTP
02:17:08 <clokep> Hmm...LiveJournal no longer works with SSL after those SSL changes...
02:21:18 <flo> maybe that's the bug you wanted? You needed one a few minutes ago ;)
02:21:38 <billysanca> hey flo, i'm the one who wanna translate Instatbird to pt-br! =P
02:22:29 <flo> ah, I'm glad to see you are here :)
02:22:42 <clokep> Hahah, no. SSL certs + gin don't mix well.
02:22:45 <clokep> But perhaps CSS does. ;)
02:22:49 <flo> I'm (almost) sure bug 1106 is a dupe.
02:22:52 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1106 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, blank line in conversation chat window for jabber protocol
02:22:55 <flo> but I can't find the old bug
02:23:16 <clokep> I've never heard of it before, (and I've looked over a lot of the bugs recently and didn't see anything related)
02:23:21 <flo> I remember who filed it, but it's possible he used a random obfuscated email address that my queries don't match :(
02:23:43 <flo> it may be marked as FIXED, even though it's never been fixed
02:24:06 <clokep> If you know his account name you can look that up first.
02:24:10 <flo> the bug complained about instantbird inserting lots of whitespace around tweets
02:24:10 <clokep> (Either by name or by email.)
02:24:19 <flo> it was actually with an XMPP twitter gateway
02:24:28 <clokep> Ah, I remember that bug now.
02:25:08 <flo> I'm not sure I would actually want to resolve the new bug as a dupe even if I found the old one though
02:25:16 <flo> as it was messy talking about twitter
02:25:38 <flo> when really all we care about is that the whitespace handling with our current XMPP plugin is poor
02:25:50 <flo> (and we definitely know that)
02:25:52 <clokep> bug 157
02:25:54 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=157 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Remove the "from" account from adjacent individual messages
02:26:19 <clokep> Yeah, that's definitely it flo. :)
02:26:44 <flo> nice completely off topic title ;)
02:27:01 <clokep> I found it by searching for "Twitter XMPP gateway" in comments in an advanced search.
02:27:03 <flo> and the email address is clearly not something I would have expected
02:27:03 <clokep> It was the only bug. :)
02:27:25 <flo> I searched with "ALL reporter:dietri"
02:27:31 <flo> but that only matches in email addresses apparently :(
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02:35:47 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 966 to INVALID.
02:35:49 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=966 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO INVALID, irc settings in account manager
02:38:00 <billysanca> pidgin also not connecting to gtalk
02:38:00 <billysanca> gmail issues maybe?
02:39:03 <clokep> That sounds like a server or ISP issue then, yes.
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03:14:48 <clokep> Goodnight.
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12:46:29 <Novarg> it would be nice to be able to reorder groups in the buddylist
12:48:28 <clokep> An extension could do it, but we don't have any plans to add that functionality.
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12:50:25 <Novarg> any reason not to?
12:51:26 <Novarg> from what I saw, you seem to be pondering a lot which features to add, so I guess you thought about this as well?
12:52:06 <clokep> What do you mean "pondering a lot which features to add"?
12:52:41 <clokep> I dislike the idea because you end up with some complicated dialogue about reordering groups when I don't see an inherent benefit from putting the groups into a different order.
12:52:58 <clokep> Plus we try to keep "good defaults with few options" and allow complicated options ot be done in extensions.
12:53:15 <Novarg> on the instantbird blog, there were long articles describing why you wouldn't add certain features, which I think is a truly nice thing
12:53:40 <clokep> Yes, from feedback of the 1.0 release.
12:54:15 <aleth> I suppose reorder via drag-and-drop might be ok
12:54:37 <Novarg> yeah, that would be awesome
12:55:09 <Novarg> especially for that one group of users that I don't talk to a lot, having them in the middle of the other groups clutters the list :]
12:55:40 <clokep> Minimize that list? ;)
12:55:52 <clokep> You can file a bug about it though. There doesn't seem to be one.
12:56:22 <aleth> or close the list and reopen on demand? ;)
12:56:23 <Novarg> it is minimized, but it still takes up the space
12:56:41 <Novarg> I may be a nitpicker, but the details are important to me as well :)
12:57:14 <aleth> All I have done so far beyond submitting bugs is fix little details :|
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12:58:51 <aleth> It might be feasible to do the drag-and-drop thing, after all it has been done for combining contacts
12:59:14 <aleth> But I don't know what it would involve under the hood
13:03:34 <clokep> It'd probably be doable, but I'm not positive.
13:05:16 <Novarg> it would certainly never get into anyone's way if it's just drag&drop
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13:29:21 <Mic> Are "bugs that depend on others" only valid when they're made as 'tracking bugs' with an explicit goal?
13:29:31 <Mic> flo hinted such a thing on bug 1111
13:29:35 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1111 enh, --, ---, raynaudquentin, NEW, [Meta] Improve add-on installation experience
13:29:57 <clokep> Mic: It had been discussed around the time that conversations on hold landed.
13:30:14 <Mic> hmm, ok.
13:31:27 <clokep> So instead of having bugs without any goal in mind that we don't really know when to close them.
13:32:32 <Mic> So I should put a "Goal of this bug is to fix the bugs it depends on" somewhere? ;)
13:32:50 <clokep> :P
13:33:09 <clokep> I think the goal of that bug is to have add-ons correctly install easily.
13:33:38 <Mic> Yes
13:37:03 <aleth> Mic: Maybe add bug 857 then (if that is even possible to fix)
13:37:06 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=857 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Install add-ons directly from website
13:48:12 <Mic> Let's see what flo says .. we can still change or close the bug then
13:49:22 <aleth> clokep: Is the [whiteboard] tag the correct way to do this kind of thing?
13:50:10 <clokep> aleth: We can use a whiteboard for pretty much whatever we want...something like this could be a good use, yes.
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13:52:09 <Mic> bye
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13:53:07 <clokep> It's not bad to use a tracking bug for a specific purpose though (i.e. "Get conversations on hold good enough for being turned on by default" :))
14:12:03 <aleth> clokep: I don't understand something in conversation.xml. Can you help?
14:12:18 <clokep> aleth: I can try. :) What's up?
14:12:28 <aleth> search for "Ugly hack"
14:13:13 <clokep> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content/conversation.xml#220 ?
14:13:18 <aleth> Why is the if (this.buddies.hasOwnProperty(name)) clause there? Because addMsg can get called before a buddy is registered in the buddy list?
14:14:14 <aleth> And why is aMsg.color set to a string which is already stored in buddies[name].style? (or conversely, why is it stored in that case)
14:14:21 <clokep> No, it's because a message can be from a buddy which is no longer in the participants list.
14:14:48 <clokep> E.g. when you join an XMPP MUC, some servers send you last xx messages, but there's no guarantee those users are still in the room.
14:14:56 <clokep> So you get messages from people not really in the room.
14:15:00 <clokep> Does that make sense?
14:15:07 <aleth> Ah, so you wouldn't want those nicks added to the participant list 
14:15:36 <clokep> Right, the nicks get added in a different way (from some message which tells you who's in the room, presumably.)
14:15:55 <aleth> From the system event handler I suppose
14:16:16 <aleth> OK, that makes sense, thanks
14:16:33 <clokep> OK, let me read the second question now.
14:17:12 <clokep> So we precalculate each buddies color when making them instead of calling compute color every time.
14:17:23 <clokep> Does that answer your question? If not can you re-phrase it please. :)
14:18:12 <aleth> When the color is precalculated, two things are stored - the color and a style string. But I don't think the style string is ever used.
14:18:27 <aleth> Maybe for the participant list?
14:18:38 <clokep> I don't see a style string anywhere, where is it?
14:20:05 <aleth> You are right. The string is used to set the style attribute of buddies[name]
14:20:23 <aleth> I thought that was storing it, but actually it's directly for display purposes of course
14:20:58 <clokep> Alright. I don't even see that, but if you undrestand it, OK! :D
14:21:03 <aleth> :)
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14:40:16 <flo> I'm surprised by this statement: "it would certainly never get into anyone's way if it's just drag&drop"
14:40:43 <flo> it's not the first time I see someone making it, even though it doesn't seem right at all
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14:41:18 <flo> doing a drag&drop by mistake is frequent. The more possibly different actions that can produce, the more it's likely to get in the way
14:43:27 <flo> or maybe what was meant is "it doesn't take any pixel on the screen as long as it isn't used"?
14:44:50 <aleth> That's a really good point, you'd have to be very careful to handle all possible cases so it was very hard to use by accident/mess up the contact list.
14:45:53 <flo> + provide an "undo" feature
14:46:30 <flo> for the "I dragged <I don't know what> <I don't know where>, OMG I've probably lost something but I don't know what!!" case
14:52:37 <clokep> That happens to me sometimes. :(
14:52:54 <clokep> Every once in a while I'll notice one of my contacts change name to another contact...who's unrelated.
14:53:02 <clokep> And I'll need to split them apart.
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15:00:47 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1112 filed by aletheia2@fastmail.fm.
15:00:48 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm added attachment 922 to bug 1112.
15:00:49 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from the wind for attachment 922 on bug 1112.
15:00:50 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1112 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Only show active nicks in color in participant list
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15:15:01 <clokep> Good idea aleth. I think that was discussed before but no one ever filed it. :)
15:17:05 <flo> hmm, so is my phone rebooting when it's for some reason deciding to change the carrier it will use, or is it changing the carrier because it has rebooted?
15:17:22 <flo> it seems to oscillate between "AT&T" and "T-mobile" :-S
15:18:14 <clokep> Ah, you shold have come once the deal between AT&T and T-Mobile is finalized and they're one carrier. :P
15:22:13 <clokep> I think I can choose networks on my phone though, Idk if you can do that?
15:22:33 <flo> I don't really want to try
15:22:50 <flo> the only "interesting" networks are the hotel and google's wifi ;)
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16:31:12 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm added attachment 923 to bug 1097.
16:31:13 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from the wind for attachment 923 on bug 1097.
16:31:14 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1097 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Tab complete is case sensitive
16:32:06 <aleth> Now for a screenshot ;)
16:32:43 * aleth discovers bug instead
16:34:46 <aleth> Forgot about outgoing messages...
16:35:56 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com denied review for attachment 923 on bug 1097.
16:35:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1097 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Tab complete is case sensitive
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16:46:45 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm added attachment 924 to bug 1097.
16:46:46 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from the wind for attachment 924 on bug 1097.
16:46:47 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1097 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Tab complete is case sensitive
17:00:55 <clokep> Bah I can't apply your patch...
17:01:37 <aleth> Possibly the line numbers are off due to my participant list changes?
17:02:06 <clokep> It can't find the file cause there's no directory information.
17:02:16 <aleth> Ah. Sorry about that
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17:04:55 <clokep> It's OK.
17:05:00 <clokep> I applied it by hand.
17:05:11 <clokep> The one line goes wayyy over 80 characters btw. :-/
17:05:22 <aleth> Yeah. :/
17:05:41 <aleth> Couldn't think of a pretty way to fix
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17:08:20 <clokep_js> Hmmm...I think I just found a big aleth but probably not in your code.
17:08:24 <clokep_js> *bug
17:08:41 <clokep_js> No, it seems to be in your code.
17:08:45 <clokep_js> Type "g" and press tab.
17:08:55 <aleth> ah.
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17:10:43 <aleth> No, what's wrong?
17:10:56 <aleth> (I was trying it in the unpatched copy)
17:11:19 <clokep> It tells me I can autocomplete Geek Shadow, gerard majax and Gizmokid 2005 (spaces done on purpose).
17:11:27 <clokep> And automatically fills in "ge"
17:12:51 <aleth> So there needs to be an additional change in the code for multiple matches?
17:13:09 <aleth> (i.e. the changes that are there are correct but not enough)
17:13:59 <clokep> Possibly.
17:14:03 <clokep> I'm trying to reproduce w/o your patch.
17:14:14 <clokep> But haven't been able to.
17:14:44 <aleth> That's because without the patch it will only find gerard-majax
17:16:07 <aleth> I don't understand the intended behaviour here. If there are multiple matches, why does it complete anything at all?
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17:20:22 <clokep> It completes the part that MUST match.
17:20:29 <clokep> I.e. when clokep and clokep_js were in the room.
17:20:46 <clokep> If you type 'c' and press tab, it will complete "clokep" since it's part of both names.
17:20:49 <aleth> OK
17:21:03 <clokep> (or if abc1 and abc2 were in the room, it would complete abc)
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17:26:29 <aleth> The bug is in this line: while (i < maxLength && completions[0][i] == completions[completions.length - 1][i])
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17:27:13 <aleth> Or equivalently, that the sort is not case-insensitive
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17:30:35 <clokep> Yes, I also wonder whether that Math.max line might be wrong.
17:31:05 <aleth> What's the best way to get the user's nick (as displayed in the participants list) within conversation.xml?
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17:31:40 <clokep> That code seems to use completions = Object.keys(this.buddies); to get all of them.
17:32:01 <aleth> Yes
17:32:46 <aleth> But the user, being active from the start, needs his nick colored ;)
17:34:01 <clokep> Well, it should be this.buddies[this.name] then I think.
17:34:12 <clokep> Oh. this.name should be it.
17:34:16 <clokep> (I think.)
17:34:23 <aleth> Excellent :)
17:34:31 <aleth> I'll try it and see
17:34:43 <clokep> Or not...that doesn't seem to exist. :(
17:35:41 <clokep> this._conv.account.name perhaps?
17:35:55 <clokep> Sorry I'm not really being helpful. :(
17:37:52 <aleth> Flo thinks tab completion should be case sensitive
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17:38:25 <clokep> I could see it going either way.
17:38:36 <aleth> (ah, he's gone again)
17:39:08 <aleth> It's one of those things where you have your own personal expected behaviour I suppose
17:39:16 <aleth> The add-on was case insensitive I believe
17:39:20 <clokep> Yes, it is.
17:39:31 <clokep> I'm fairly certain it wasn't.
17:39:35 <clokep> The code is mostly the same.
17:39:56 <clokep> Btw, when you request reviews, I'd suggest requesting them from a person in particular.
17:40:04 <aleth> OK
17:40:12 <clokep> Otherwise we all just think someone else will do it. ;)
17:40:24 <clokep> (Aka we're all lazy.)
17:40:48 <aleth> No, on this instance I have tab complete still running and it is case insensitive
17:41:53 <aleth> Hmm better ignore that as I had better check what exactly is interacting here
17:42:12 <clokep> Oh? It's possible.
17:42:42 <aleth> It shows case-insensitive options but the completion behaviour for multiple matches is quite different
17:43:12 <aleth> In fact right now it is behaving oddly
17:43:16 <aleth> oh well
17:45:47 <aleth> Anyway, case sensitive vs case insensitive should be decided before I spend more time implementing the insensitive one
17:48:11 <clokep> Probably. :)
17:48:17 <clokep> Did oyu put a screenshot up that I missed btw?
17:52:24 <aleth> No, because I discovered a bug in the process of taking it :(
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19:30:53 <aleth> Just discovered the bug I am trying to fix is due to a subtle bug in the existing version...
19:33:06 <aleth> Is there any standard interface to the "outgoing message" color (i.e. is this already extracted from the message style somewhere?)
19:33:47 <clokep> I think it is, but I have no idea how. :-/
19:54:24 * timA|away is now known as timA
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20:26:12 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm added attachment 925 to bug 1097.
20:26:13 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm cancelled review? for attachment 924 on bug 1097.
20:26:14 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 925 on bug 1097.
20:26:15 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1097 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Tab complete is case sensitive
20:28:34 <aleth> clokep: you might want to test this as well, to check it works the way you would expect too
20:30:33 <douglaswth> gah! you guys didn't make the new tab completion case insensitive; I guess I'll dust off my extensions when I get some time
20:30:55 <clokep> Please don't blame "you guys" please blame flo. ;)
20:31:19 <aleth> also, check out the patch I just submitted right before you posted ;)
20:31:59 <douglaswth> LOL
20:32:46 <clokep> It looks reasonable, but I haven't tried it yet.
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20:43:27 <flo> 22:28:35 - aleth: […]  it works the way you would expect too
20:43:27 <flo> 22:30:33 - douglaswth: gah! you guys didn't make the new tab completion  […]
20:43:45 <flo> oops, sorry, I was demoing the elipsis of the magic copy feature to someone ;)
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20:45:03 <clokep> Did they like it? :P
20:45:14 <flo> "yeah, I loved it" 
20:45:44 <aleth> one of those hidden killer features :)
20:45:59 <flo> yeah :)
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21:34:29 <aleth> hi instantbot
21:34:30 <instantbot> salut aleth
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21:39:08 * aleth waves at instantbot
21:39:37 <aleth> instantbot didn't respond to that...
21:39:40 <instantbot> aleth: Sorry, I've no idea what 'didn't respond to that' might be.
21:39:41 * clokep pats instantbot 
21:39:42 * instantbot beams
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21:41:29 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm added attachment 926 to bug 1112.
21:41:31 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1112 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Only show active nicks in color in participant list
21:41:39 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm added attachment 927 to bug 1112.
21:41:40 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm cancelled review? for attachment 922 on bug 1112.
21:41:41 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from clokep@gmail.com for attachment 927 on bug 1112.
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22:12:08 <Reihar> Hi
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22:13:05 <aleth> Hi Reihar 
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22:15:53 <Reihar> I have a question
22:16:09 <Reihar> I'm trying instantbird
22:16:56 <aleth> Fire away!
22:16:57 <Reihar> and I can't connect to my xmpp account
22:17:14 <aleth> Do you get a "SSL Handshake error"?
22:17:16 <Reihar> I've tried with an msn one and it works.
22:17:35 <Reihar> So, I'd like to know if instantbird works with self signed certificates ?
22:17:37 <Reihar> Yes
22:17:48 <Reihar> I'm using my own server
22:17:51 <aleth> You have to import the certificate, or turn off certificate checking
22:18:25 <Reihar> I'm just testing, so I'll try to turn it off, thanks.
22:18:51 <aleth> To do this you need the config editor in preferences->advanced->general
22:19:23 <aleth> toggle purple.ssl.check_certificates
22:20:53 <Reihar> Thank you, it works ;)
22:22:53 <Novarg> does instantbird use the certificates from ~/.purple?
22:23:25 <clokep> No.
22:23:54 <clokep> Hey aleth, just an FYI that your editor seems to be changing spacing a bit, at the very least it's set to use tabs instead of spaces.
22:25:23 <aleth> clokep: Yes, I noticed that :( You don't use tabs then?
22:25:30 <aleth> I did set tabs to 2
22:25:34 <clokep> No, we use two spaces.
22:26:00 <clokep> I preferred tabs too, but now I'm used to space. :)
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22:28:48 <clokep> instantbot: botsnack
22:28:49 <instantbot> :)
22:29:01 <aleth> he smiles!
22:29:02 <clokep_js> Cool patch aleth.
22:29:18 <clokep_js> Ah interesting...I don't even highlight /after/ I talk.
22:29:51 <aleth> No, because I can't get at the color to implement that :(
22:30:32 <clokep> You shouldn't have to treat it any differently I don't think.
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22:31:29 <aleth> They aren't treated differently in the current IB. But that's a bug - the bubble and nick colors don't match.
22:32:00 <aleth> This just becomes more obvious when most nicks are gray ;)
22:32:27 <clokep> I don't know if it's a "bug" or feature, but I agree that I don't like it.
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22:33:21 <aleth> One could set the user's nick to black (e.g.) on talking, or from the start. But it would be nicer to set it to the outgoing message color for consistency.
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22:34:57 <clokep> Yes.
22:36:23 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com added attachment 928 to bug 1112.
22:36:25 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1112 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Only show active nicks in color in participant list
22:37:29 <clokep> aleth: Check that out. It's the simple fix that I think you were thinking of, but it seems to work nicely.
22:38:20 <aleth> clokep: Yes, I had tried that.
22:39:22 <aleth> The nick and the bubble color match, but it modifies the color of outgoing bubbles compared to normal conversations. This then is not consistent to the user who always expects to be the same color.
22:39:40 <aleth> Or am I missing something?\
22:39:43 <clokep> Personally?
22:39:43 <Reihar> Goodbye
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22:39:53 <clokep> I expect my color to be the color of my nick in a MUC.
22:40:02 <clokep> I don't feel it's necessary to /always/ have it be the same color.
22:40:20 <aleth> Well then that change patch is indeed all you need!
22:40:48 <clokep> Yes, but Idk what the original intent was. :)
22:40:53 <clokep> So flo might reject it.
22:41:23 <aleth> Well, my problem with it is that it is nicer for messages from me, the user, to have the same color across all tabs.
22:41:50 <aleth> After all, the colorize add-on even tries to achieve this for conversation partners across sessions
22:42:03 <aleth> (I believe - haven't tried it)
22:42:57 <clokep> Perhaps colorize should also color your chats on your outgoing messages too then. ;)
22:45:12 <aleth> Maybe flo knows of an easy way to get at the outgoing message color and one can have it all :D
22:46:27 <aleth> But I agree nick matching bubble is definitely more important.
22:47:49 <clokep> :)
22:47:59 <clokep> I think we're on the same page then. :)
22:49:01 <clokep> Novarg: Just an FYi that Instantbird doesn't use anything from ~/.purple, all of it's preferences are in ~/.instantbird and we don't import anything yet.
22:50:20 <Novarg> clokep: I already managed to import the needed certificates :)
22:50:35 <Novarg> and got xmpp running, finally
22:50:40 <clokep> Import in this sense I meant from Pidgin's profile. :)
22:50:43 <aleth> The message style variant/color system is a bit of a mess imho, but that's due to adium 
22:50:58 <Novarg> clokep: ah, do you plan on adding it?
22:51:49 <clokep> Novarg: Yes. Eventually. There's a bug filed for Adium, but we'd like to import from multiple places.
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