#instantbird log on 10 15 2011

All times are UTC.

00:00:27 <clokep_> Seems to be going OK. :) But it's not a very exciting post. :-/ I can't really think of how images, etc. could be in it.
00:02:08 <flo> I always have a hard time finding something to screenshot for my add-ons to get out of the sandbox ;)
00:02:23 <flo> lots of my add-ons are still in the sandbox for that exact reason :-D
00:02:42 <clokep_> Do you happen to be uploading add-ons that I'm going to be able to link to right now? :P
00:03:57 <flo> not right now, but they'll be uploaded eventually
00:04:05 <clokep_> OK!
00:04:19 <flo> right now I'm trying to understand why new strings in the website don't want to appear in the en-US repository
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00:15:55 <flo> http://hg.instantbird.org/l10n/en-US/ hmm, that doesn't look too messed up
00:17:34 <flo> I don't understand that changeset http://hg.instantbird.org/l10n/en-US/rev/3844d11585ba but oh well...
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00:20:04 <flo> there are 4 changesets that seem to have been imported twice :-S
00:20:56 <clokep_> Hm. That's weird.
00:21:23 <clokep_> So I wrote a blog post, would anyone like to read it before I post it? :-/
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00:22:57 <flo> clokep_: if I edit things in there, will you notice?
00:23:14 <flo> s/demand/deserve/ their attention?
00:23:18 <clokep_> In the blog post? Probably not, knock yourself out!
00:23:34 <clokep_> Or do you mean can I see your changes live? No.
00:23:39 <flo> "it allows extensions great power to control how Instantbird is allow to interact with the user" doesn't make much sense
00:24:08 <clokep_> "extensions now have great control over how Instantbird is allowed to interact with the user"?
00:24:51 <flo> ok
00:25:01 <flo> "We have the an add-on that"
00:25:54 <clokep_> (I also added a sentence at the end of that paragraph: "And don't worry, these extensions will be available on addons.instantbird.org soon!")
00:26:28 <clokep_> "We've created an add-on to"?
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00:28:40 <flo> did you want to mention the Do Not Disturb add-on?
00:29:21 <clokep_> Ah, I knew I forgot one! :)
00:29:32 <clokep_> Why they pay you the big bucks.
00:30:16 <flo> so this time maybe the staging website should be password protected :-S
00:30:25 <clokep_> Probably. :)
00:30:40 <Mook_as> just remember to mention the password on IRC so it's publicly logged ;)
00:30:49 <flo> so that it's obvious even to completely stupid translators (ahem) that sharing that link "privately" in a public tweet is not a good idea
00:31:10 <flo> Mook_as: my idea was to reuse the username/passwords that translators use to push to their repositories ;)
00:31:42 <Mook_as> haha, that means you have access to the plaintext of their passwords :D
00:31:48 <flo> no
00:31:51 <flo> to the .htpasswd
00:32:04 <Mook_as> ah, right, because hg runs off http
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00:32:33 <flo> I do have the plaintext passwords though
00:33:07 <flo> (because they were randomly generated and I emailed them to each translator, so they are still in my gmail sent messages)
00:39:50 <flo> ok, http://www-staging2.instantbird.com/
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00:43:47 <clokep_> Good idea. :)
00:44:14 <clokep_> Any more comments on that flo or does it seem good w/ the DND add-on added? (Is the source for that available?)
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00:44:33 <flo> I can push it
00:45:16 <clokep_> If you'd like. Doesn't matter a ton to me either way.
00:45:52 <flo> I'm not sure if I should push no spam too. I haven't tested it at all :-/
00:46:21 <clokep_> Want to test it right now? :P
00:46:28 <flo> https://hg.instantbird.org/addons/rev/ca4ba6af0b8a
00:46:30 <flo> no
00:46:45 <flo> I just want to go to bed as soon as I'm done with what I need to send to translators
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00:47:13 <clokep_> Alright.
00:47:44 <flo> clokep_: by the way, http://www-staging2.instantbird.com/release-notes.html
00:48:14 * clokep_ does not have a l10n password. ;)
00:48:19 <clokep_> Unless I can use my experiments one?
00:48:49 <flo> you can
00:49:00 <flo> I added Mic and you at the end of the list of translators ;)
00:49:30 <clokep_> :)
00:50:32 <clokep_> Looks good! :)
00:51:34 <clokep_> I'm going to post that blog post.
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00:52:22 <flo> ok :)
00:52:51 <instantbot> Just appeared in Blog@instantbird.org - http://blog.instantbird.org :
00:52:52 <instantbot> http://blog.instantbird.org/2011/10/the-interruptions-manage/ - The Interruptions Manager
00:53:01 <clokep_> (Btw the WP blog is much easier to use...it means I don't have to have Google Translate up in another window. ;))
00:55:02 <flo> Google Translate?
00:55:19 <clokep_> SO I can translate all the French UI from your blog. :-D
00:55:33 <flo> ah...
00:56:55 <flo> there was only 10 or so french words in there ;)
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00:58:08 <flo> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/1023 is this good? Am I forgetting something here?
00:58:51 <flo> Tonnes: is there any reason why you haven't accepted the invitation for the instantbird-l10n google group?
00:59:01 <flo> or have you just never received it?
00:59:15 <flo> (went in the spam folder, or whatever...)
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01:00:05 <clokep_> flo: That looks good.
01:01:16 <flo> cool :)
01:03:19 <flo> I should probably also send the release candidates link to contact @ ib.org
01:03:34 <clokep_> Yes. I can do that if you'd like.
01:04:00 <flo> I'm already doing it
01:04:34 <clokep_> Oh OK.
01:06:33 <flo> done
01:09:05 <clokep_> Bed time? :P
01:09:44 <flo> too late :(
01:11:37 <flo> Good night
01:11:38 <clokep_> Interesting service: http://lifehacker.com/5849783/justbeamit-makes-transferring-large-files-super+easy
01:11:41 <clokep_> Goodnight!
01:14:54 <flo> where are the ads? What's the business model? How do they pay the bandwidth? :-S
01:16:47 <clokep_> That...I have no idea. :P
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09:27:38 <Mic> Hi
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10:19:46 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1077 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
10:19:47 <instantbot> benediktp@ymail.com added attachment 896 to bug 1077.
10:19:48 <instantbot> benediktp@ymail.com requested review from do.not.deliver@gmx. de for attachment 896 on bug 1077.
10:19:49 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1077 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Suggested changes for german locale (for RC 1.1)
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12:35:39 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1078 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
12:35:40 <instantbot> benediktp@ymail.com added attachment 897 to bug 1078.
12:35:43 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1078 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, "Search add-ons" tab in the add-ons has broken UI
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12:50:19 <instantbot> benediktp@ymail.com added attachment 898 to bug 1037.
12:50:21 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1037 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Link "bug xxx" to bugzilla in hgweb
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13:25:15 <instantbot> benediktp@ymail.com added attachment 899 to bug 1078.
13:25:17 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1078 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, "Search add-ons" tab in the add-ons has broken UI
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14:17:48 <clokep_wp7> Mic: Stop finding bugs until we release. :-P
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14:32:32 <flo> clokep: if there are serious bugs, it would be better to know about them asap ;)
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15:22:50 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1079 filed by aletheia2@fastmail.fm.
15:22:52 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1079 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add-on search is erratic
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16:00:33 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm added attachment 900 to bug 1074.
16:00:34 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from the wind for attachment 900 on bug 1074.
16:00:35 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1074 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Default message styles lack context message support
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16:27:57 <instantbot> New Websites - www.instantbird.com bug 1080 filed by michal.stanke@mikk.cz.
16:27:58 <instantbot> michal.stanke@mikk.cz added attachment 901 to bug 1080.
16:27:59 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1080 maj, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, "What's new" is not updated
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16:38:05 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm set the Resolution field on bug 1080 to DUPLICATE of bug 1069.
16:38:07 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1080 maj, --, ---, nobody, RESO DUPLICATE, "What's new" is not updated
16:38:08 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1069 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, 'What's new" feed display broken
16:49:35 <aleth> My first add-on :) https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/302/
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16:49:59 <aleth> (well, modified message style)
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17:30:26 <aleth> flo: Is it desired behaviour that the Bubbles message style overrides the font selected in Preferences (with Lucida Grande)? Otherwise I will file a patch while I am at it
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17:46:26 <flo> aleth: In my opinion it's a bad behavior.
17:46:46 <aleth> That's what I thought. 
17:46:52 <flo> but then Sans is probably wrong too, right?
17:46:53 <aleth> Just removed a similar line from Papersheets
17:46:59 <flo> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/search?string=Lucida
17:47:01 <aleth> The whole font-family tag must go
17:47:03 <flo> dark has it too
17:47:18 <flo> sans-seric is undesirable too?
17:47:34 <aleth> Well, it will override the user's preference
17:47:43 <flo> no
17:48:04 <flo> it's a font family, not the name of a specific font
17:48:31 <aleth> Try selecting a serif font in Preferences...
17:49:13 <flo> that will do nothing, as Lucida Grande is in the CSS for me ;)
17:49:37 <aleth> font-family is used afaik to list a sequence of fonts which are then gone through until one of them is available
17:49:54 <aleth> As sans-serif is always available, it will override the user's preference
17:50:15 <aleth> Or am I missing something? CSS not my forte
17:58:21 <flo> sans-serif is a "special" font which maps to a real font, the mapping is controlled by the preference people change from the preferences window.
17:58:33 <flo> (if I understood things correctly)
17:59:48 <aleth> I thought sans-serif was a special font which the OS maps to a real font, whereas the Preferences window has a font selector. 
18:00:34 <aleth> Anyway, I will test it in a minute, keeping font-family: sans-serif
18:04:28 <flo> look in the advanced configuration editor
18:04:31 <aleth> You are right - font-family: sans-serif is overriden by the choice in Preferences. 
18:04:43 <flo> you will see there are prefs for the sans-serif, serif and monospace families
18:05:11 <aleth> Ah, that explains why it is possible to select sans-serif _as a font_ in Preferences
18:05:34 <flo> (by the way, you are also write that we can just remove that font-family line and get the same result, as I've overriden the default familly to be sans-serif for the regions that matter to us
18:05:54 <flo> see http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/app/profile/all-instantbird.js#95
18:06:14 <aleth> Yes, I was just wondering if font-family: sans-serif (if present) would ever have an effect
18:06:20 <flo> I don't know for which OS "Sans" was added to that list in message themes, but we may want to add it in the default pref too
18:06:31 <flo> s/write/right/
18:08:13 <aleth> The default font in Preferences is set to sans-serif, which (if I understood you correctly) is mapped by about:config to Sans
18:08:44 <aleth> So what would you like in the message style? font-family: sans-serif or nothing at all? Am not sure it makes any difference, as long as there is no explicit font there
18:19:08 <flo> aleth: "The default font in Preferences is set to sans-serif, which (if I understood you correctly) is mapped by about:config to Sans" I never said that. :-S
18:19:28 <flo> I'm not sure Sans is the default font for any OS
18:19:32 <flo> it's certainly not for Mac
18:19:58 <aleth> I just had a look in about:config
18:20:12 <aleth> On Linux, sans-serif is mapped by about:config to... sans-serif
18:20:17 <aleth> Hence my confusion
18:20:22 <aleth> The OS must map this to Sans
18:20:49 <aleth> So I wasn't altogether wrong earlier
18:20:55 <flo> seems to be Arial by default on Windows
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18:21:12 <aleth> Anyway, it doesn't matter as long as Preferences works
18:21:29 <aleth> So should I keep in font-family: sans-serif or leave the whole line out?
18:22:30 <flo> either is fine I think
18:24:56 <aleth> I think this also explains why someone's girlfriend in #instantbird recently complained about not being able to set the font
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18:25:54 <flo> that's likely, yes
18:28:05 <aleth> I'm tempted to just remove the font-family line then, it's more parsimonious - or do you want it left in for safety?
18:29:14 <flo> I don't know
18:29:33 <flo> I would like to know why "Sans" was in that list / if it was of any use, before r+ing that patch.
18:30:12 <aleth> On Linux, Lucida Grande is not available by default, so maybe it was put in at some point as a fallback
18:30:21 <flo> Lucida Grande is the Mac font
18:30:29 <aleth> Yes, it's great, I use it too
18:31:24 <aleth> font-family on a webpage is used to ensure a best-possible font is selected, so you would use it to list the desired font in order of preference, ending the list in an actual font family so it never fails completely
18:34:06 <aleth> With font-family:sans-serif and Preferences set to sans-serif on Linux, Sans is the font that results
18:34:19 <flo> yeah I know. What I don't know is if putting that font-familly here was a mistake, or if there was a real reason that we should fix in another way (like adding more default preference overrides)
18:34:35 <flo> aleth: doesn't that depend on the GTK theme used though? ;)
18:35:48 <aleth> flo: More precisely your OS font settings. GTK themes "recommend" a font ;)
18:36:11 <aleth> Anyway, I am puzzled too as to why that line was/is there
18:37:29 <aleth> For now, I will upload the patches with font-family:sans-serif (keeping that as a placeholder in case there is trouble)
18:41:10 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm added attachment 902 to bug 1074.
18:41:11 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from the wind for attachment 902 on bug 1074.
18:41:12 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1074 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Default message styles lack context message support
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18:44:24 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm added attachment 903 to bug 1074.
18:44:25 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from the wind for attachment 903 on bug 1074.
18:44:26 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1074 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Default message styles lack context message support and override font choice
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18:56:47 <aleth> Not sure if that bug belongs on the 1.1 whitelist?
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19:05:14 <aleth> Hey, that Dark message style actually looks really nice with a different font...
19:16:42 <instantbot> do.not.deliver@gmx.de granted review for attachment 896 on bug 1077.
19:16:44 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1077 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Suggested changes for german locale (for RC 1.1)
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20:03:47 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm added attachment 904 to bug 1074.
20:03:48 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm cancelled review? for attachment 902 on bug 1074.
20:03:49 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from the wind for attachment 904 on bug 1074.
20:03:50 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1074 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, NEW, Default message styles lack context message support and override font choice
20:06:39 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm added attachment 905 to bug 1074.
20:06:40 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from the wind for attachment 905 on bug 1074.
20:06:43 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1074 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, NEW, Default message styles lack context message support and override font choice
20:07:15 <aleth> Alright, that took longer than expected...
20:26:58 <flo> aleth: so the context messages in simple would be a little blue?
20:27:40 <flo> and if the received messages include a font color (and we don't filter it out), then the difference won't be noticable. Is this right, or did I miss something? :)
20:28:21 <aleth> flo: It seemed to look good that way - it is hardly noticeable, but the issue in the simple style is that there is nothing but the text colour to differentiate context from not.
20:28:30 <aleth> And yes, you are right.
20:29:08 <flo> is papersheets/Incoming/NextContext.html needed?
20:29:12 <aleth> Wasn't sure what else to do though within the constraints of the style... 
20:29:44 <flo> aleth: I didn't say this was bad ;). Was just trying to ensure I understand correctly what I'm reading :).
20:30:26 <aleth> Sure :)
20:30:52 <aleth> flo: I think it's needed because the fallback is NextContent.html not Context.html?
20:31:01 <flo> oh?
20:31:26 <aleth> according to the wiki...
20:31:42 <aleth> So it seemed better to be safe than sorry
20:31:54 <flo>   get incomingNextContext() this.incomingNextContent,
20:32:26 <flo> so, why isn't this what you want?
20:33:36 <aleth> You are probably right. I just added NextContext.html before I was sure what I would do to its contents...
20:33:59 * aleth tests it
20:34:19 <flo> why are these !important needed?
20:35:06 <flo> is it easier or more difficult for you to attach these 4 patches as a single patch?
20:35:52 <aleth> flo: NextContext.html and NextContent.html are indeed identical for Papersheets, so you are right, one could just delete nextContext
20:36:09 <flo> for dark too?
20:38:18 <flo> it seems simple/Incoming/NextContext.html is useful, but that's quite unfortunate for a theme that doesn't have Context.html :(.
20:38:41 <flo> I'm tempted to say that's a bug in the theme system that should be fixed, but I'm not sure if that would introduce incompatibilities with Adium themes.
20:39:43 <aleth> flo: am retesting Dark without NextContext.html
20:39:55 <aleth> flo: which important! ? In white.css?
20:39:59 <flo> yes
20:40:30 <aleth> There may be a nicer way to solve the issue in CSS, but without it the variant does not work. Funnily enough it does work in the preview pane without it, so it went unnoticed
20:42:19 <aleth> flo: But Simple does have Context.html ?
20:42:36 <aleth> (just no NextContent.html)
20:42:51 <flo> errr, I meant NextContent, sorry
20:42:58 <aleth> I agree, it is a bit too minimalistic maybe
20:43:25 <flo> it's "simple" :)
20:44:51 <aleth> Dark *does* need NextContext.html
20:46:13 <flo> how does it behave without it?
20:46:28 <aleth> It does not get the context bubble background styling
20:46:45 <aleth> That's because what I did in Dark is slightly hacky
20:46:46 <flo> oh, right
20:47:04 <flo> I did the same in Bubble so I can't blame you for that ;)
20:48:07 <aleth> However, there is one thing I would have liked to do in Dark, but couldn't see how without a major rewrite: On hover, give the context bubble the non-context-bubble sendercolour background rather than just a highlight. But it seemed a detail since nick colours are absent from Dark anyway.
20:50:24 <aleth> I can roll you a single diff for all those patches if you like - but concatenating the diff files gives the same result
20:50:30 <flo> nick colors are absent?
20:50:42 <aleth> Nicks are not coloured in Dark
20:50:54 <aleth> For extra-dark slickness I presume
20:51:06 <flo> it sure does the same thing. But that's 4 times has many attachments and bugmail, and 4 files I have to download instead of one to apply the changes ;)
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20:51:29 <flo> aren't the background colors based on the nick colors?
20:51:40 <aleth> Yes, hence the detail I would have liked to fix
20:51:55 <aleth> OK will run a complete diff :)
20:52:48 <flo> I don't really understand the problem (with dark, and what you would need a makor rewrite for)
20:53:51 <aleth> It's not a problem. All I am saying is atm when you hover over a context bubble, it will not regain its original nick-based colour. Maybe someone with more CSS skills could fix this without adding div tags all over the place
20:54:02 <aleth> But it looks OK as is imho
20:54:53 <flo> isn't the div.context:not(:hover) rule here to do just that?
20:55:47 <flo> and I thought I understood the need for dark/Incoming/NextContext.html as you have "context" in the class there, but actually it's a <p> rather than a <div> so the CSS selector you have doesn't match
20:56:00 <flo> so I don't understand the need for NextContext.html in dark
21:00:28 <aleth> It's because only context bubbles are in a div tag - all the others just use p tags. But I don't quite understand it either - however without it it doesn't work.
21:00:52 <aleth> I needed the div for the context bubble to desaturate the background
21:00:55 <flo> I don't r+ things I don't understand though :(
21:01:06 <aleth> That's why I asked!\
21:01:18 <aleth> My CSS-fu is not strong enough ;)
21:01:48 <flo> I still don't understand what's broken in papersheets/Variants/White.css (it seems to work for me without change, I've just tried it)
21:02:16 <aleth> That's odd
21:03:35 <aleth> I can't say I understand why they are required either. But without them I see no white backgrounds
21:03:52 <aleth> (By odd I mean that it should work on Mac but not Linux)
21:04:11 <flo> aleth: about simple/Variants/Dark.css, while I usually prefer the rgb(r, g, b) format which I find more readable, when everything else is in #hex format in the file, it's better to keep the file consistant
21:04:32 <flo> which background do you see?
21:04:40 <aleth> the normal variant
21:05:08 <flo> have you actually closed the conversation tab after changing the variant?
21:05:18 <aleth> sure :)
21:06:41 <flo> have you reproduced it several times?
21:07:56 <aleth> Yes. Especially as I couldn't quite believe it at first since the preview does work. It even reproduces when you restart IB with that style/variant set.
21:08:59 <aleth> I might not be the right person to fix this as I have simply never learnt the ins and outs of CSS. I have no idea why it is behaving the way it does (same for the Dark issue)
21:09:31 <flo> when something doesn't behave the way I expect, I usually have no idea of why... until I do. ;)
21:09:49 <aleth> that is also a possibility ;)
21:10:13 <aleth> However, asking people is not an impossible route either ;)
21:10:16 <flo> to debug css stuff I use DOM inspector to look at the CSS rules that are applied / where they come from, etc...
21:10:43 <aleth> But you say the white variant works for you on Mac? What could be the difference?
21:11:00 <flo> I'll try on linux in a few minutes
21:11:05 <flo> my build is recompiling
21:11:39 <flo> (I don't expect the result to be different though ;))
21:11:48 <flo> have you tried in safe-mode by the way? :)
21:11:59 <aleth> Tried a clean profile...
21:12:36 <aleth> but not safe mode. Only add-on is DOM Inspector though
21:12:47 <flo> ah, so you have it! :)
21:12:53 <flo> you can check where the color comes from :)
21:13:31 <aleth> for Dark?
21:15:42 <flo> for anything
21:27:40 <flo> shouldn't black force the color of message text? Receiving a black message isn't very readable :(
21:28:18 <aleth> What are you referring to?
21:28:32 <flo> s/black/dark/
21:29:27 <flo> aleth: I've no problem wiht the white variant on linux either
21:30:21 <aleth> flo: even more puzzling
21:30:45 <aleth> :(
21:34:08 <aleth> I tried in safe mode too
21:34:21 <aleth> Aha! did you try it with a MUC?
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21:36:54 <flo> no
21:37:14 <aleth> Try it 
21:37:20 <aleth> Normal conversations work fine for me too
21:37:24 <flo> ah, in a MUC there should be some JS code taking the participant colors
21:37:31 <aleth> Yes
21:37:56 <aleth> I should have mentioned that :( sorry
21:38:07 <aleth> Got so used to only testing MUCs... because thats where context bubbles appear
21:38:26 <flo> you can have them in normal IMs too :)
21:38:36 <aleth> Harder to test though :)
21:39:37 <flo> really?
21:39:46 <flo> just say something, put the conversation on hold, and restore it
21:40:46 <aleth> Oh wow. 
21:41:07 <aleth> Yes, forgot about the possibility of using the context menu for that.
21:41:42 <flo> it's more complicated, but it works without the context menu too though.
21:41:48 <aleth> I did not realise you could do that
21:42:05 <aleth> Closing tabs usually closes the convo for non-MUCs
21:42:16 <flo> you need to have another conversation so that the tab isn't selected, receive a message, then close the window
21:43:40 <aleth> Yes, that's the instance I was aware of - what I meant with "harder to test"
21:44:47 <flo> ok
21:45:00 <flo> yeah, you didn't say it wasn't possible.
21:45:06 <flo> It seems I'm tired this evening :(
21:47:51 <aleth> Not surprising really considering you have all the release date stress :|
21:49:12 <flo> I haven't done much today though. Maybe it's because I was disappointed this afternoon
21:49:37 <flo> the weather is very nice, I wanted to drive the AMI, and it didn't start (I think the battery is dead).
21:51:23 <aleth> :(
21:51:28 <aleth> unpleasant surprise...
21:54:43 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 890 on bug 763.
21:54:46 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=763 min, --, ---, mattdentremont, ASSI, Allow middle-click on IRC nick
22:01:55 <flo> aleth: yeah, that was unpleasant. It's just another bug to fix though ;). I just need to attach a patch, err, buy a battery
22:02:48 <FeuerFliege> good night!
22:02:56 <flo> FeuerFliege: good night :)
22:04:42 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm added attachment 906 to bug 1074.
22:04:43 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm requested review from the wind for attachment 906 on bug 1074.
22:04:45 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1074 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, NEW, Default message styles lack context message support and override font choice
22:05:01 <aleth> heh, crosspost
22:05:34 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 883 on bug 948.
22:05:36 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=948 nor, --, ---, mattdentremont, ASSI, Finer control over sound notifications (i.e. receiving chat ping vs. instant message)
22:06:17 <aleth> flo: so just to be sure, you could reproduce the issue with the White variant on Mac too in MUCs?
22:06:34 <FeuerFliege> btw l10n-buildtbot is offline.
22:06:39 <-- FeuerFliege has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
22:06:46 <flo> I haven't tried. But I believe you, as it's logical :).
22:06:57 <flo> yeah, I know about the buildbot slave, that's annoying :(.
22:09:42 <aleth> flo: Yes, it probably requires the JS to check whether its a context message before changing the background. Sigh.
22:11:55 <aleth> Just out of interest - why is !important frowned upon even where it is appropriate?
22:12:05 <aleth> !important considered harmful?
22:13:30 <aleth> I would have thought this would be a decent use case
22:13:52 <aleth> "Don't allow this background to be overridden"
22:15:10 <flo> !important is most likely OK in that case
22:15:28 <flo> but stuffing that into a patch commited with a "handled context messages" commit message doesn't sound good
22:15:46 <aleth> Oh I see, for changelog comprehensibility
22:17:09 <aleth> Regarding the "Sans", the original developer might know? ;)
22:18:26 <flo> yes, my plan was to email idechix
22:18:39 <flo> or talk to him the next time I see him, but that may not be soon enough
22:19:58 <aleth> I can't see how it wouldn't be just as bad as hardwiring Lucida
22:20:13 <aleth> but maybe he will remember...
22:21:18 <flo> It's clear it should be removed, that's not the problem. The problem is, should we add an #ifdef <something> with "Sans" default preference values, like I did for Lucida Grande for Mac at http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/app/profile/all-instantbird.js#99
22:22:18 <aleth> Ah, at the level of about:config. Yes. What does FF do to set those values?
22:23:16 <aleth> (The real question seems to be "Is sans-serif always understood (as a font name) on Win and Linux"
22:23:33 <flo> it's understood as a font family
22:24:09 <aleth> Yes, what I mean is does the OS always substitute in what you have set as "default sans" system-wide. It certainly seems to.
22:24:28 <flo> see this for Mozilla default values: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/search?string=font.name.sans-serif&find=all.js&findi=&filter=%5E%5B%5E%5C0%5D*%24&hitlimit=&tree=mozilla-central
22:24:42 <aleth> whoa
22:25:25 <flo> I don't know which one is for linux, but it could be Helvetica
22:25:50 <aleth> so in this case not necessarily a good guide, since expected browser behaviour not the same as expected general app behaviour
22:26:33 <aleth> But one may need to ask a localization guru to really know
22:26:52 <flo> no, Helvetica is for Mac
22:28:24 <flo> on linux it's just pref("font.name.sans-serif.x-western", "sans-serif");, so probably a fallback to the OS default
22:32:28 <aleth> I'll take another look at the Dark context issue to see if I can clarify it, then submit the whole thing again
22:32:46 <flo> ok :)
22:39:14 <aleth> Btw I just remembered, I think the add-on I uploaded today uses !important for exactly the same reason that I had to add it to White.css
22:44:21 <flo> We don't care so much about the code cleanness of add-ons ;)
22:52:48 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org denied review for attachment 892 on bug 772.
22:52:51 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=772 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Use a sortComparator function on groups to allow easy changing of the order of contacts
22:57:34 <flo> aleth: the next time you attach a newer version of a patch, could you please take the opportunity to mark the previous version of the patch as obsolete at the same time? :)
22:58:05 <flo> as far as I know, it's the only way to mark several attachment as obsolete at once, and marking as obsolete cancels pending requests on these attachments.
22:58:40 <aleth> Sorry I forgot for the last one I posted - I actually did that earlier today
22:58:45 <aleth> Must be getting tired...
22:59:07 <flo> heh, I'm not the only one! :)
22:59:26 <flo> I'm currently looking at the request queue. It seems a bit long ;)
23:01:27 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org cancelled review? for attachment 865 on bug 1059.
23:01:29 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1059 enh, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Suggestion: Remove dividing line from info area in buddy list and conversation
23:07:52 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org denied review for attachment 860 on bug 1059.
23:07:54 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1059 enh, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Suggestion: Remove dividing line from info area in buddy list and conversation
23:08:23 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org denied review for attachment 861 on bug 1059.
23:09:43 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 1059 to INVALID.
23:17:08 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org denied review for attachment 872 on bug 1065.
23:17:10 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1065 nor, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Remove unnecessary borders from message area
23:22:11 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org denied review for attachment 862 on bug 1060.
23:22:15 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1060 enh, --, ---, aletheia2, ASSI, Suggestion: Remove chat icon on the left of conv-top for MUCs
23:27:34 <ironhead> does IB support UTF-8?
23:27:45 <ironhead> if so, how do I set it?
23:28:56 <ironhead> I've seen some non-English characters show up as '?' as opposed to what they should be
23:29:12 <ironhead> not sure if it's a limitation of the font (using the default Arial on Windows)
23:29:31 <ironhead> or if IB is not handling the encoding correctly
23:31:29 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm set the Resolution field on bug 1060 to INVALID.
23:31:31 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1060 enh, --, ---, aletheia2, RESO INVALID, Suggestion: Remove chat icon on the left of conv-top for MUCs
23:34:08 <aleth> Though I do think it looks silly at the moment, I am not going to invent a topic icon.
23:35:34 <-- mmkmou has quit (Client exited)
23:39:26 <flo> aleth: you don't necessarily have to do it yourself ;)
23:40:23 <flo> ironhead: I think it uses UTF8 by default.
23:40:34 <aleth> flo: Sure, but morphing "remove icon" to "invent icon" seemed a stretch, and those couple of "bugs" were only suggestions anyway (and labelled as such) :)
23:40:50 <flo> yes, I know :)
23:42:48 <aleth> Personally I dislike the idea of inventing icons purely because there is a slot for an icon
23:43:04 <aleth> Really what should go there is the favicon for the IRC server. But there is no such thing afaik
23:43:50 <aleth> ;)
23:46:12 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org denied review for attachment 770 on bug 933.
23:46:14 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=933 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, http://instantbird.com/'locale' not found
23:47:08 <aleth> yay, found it I think!
23:47:28 <flo> aleth: ah no, the favicon for the irc server should be put in the place of the buddy icon for 1-to-1 conversations
23:47:48 <flo> lots of reviews denied this evening ;)
23:48:04 <aleth> flo: yes, and then you wouldn't need to worry about its status icon because the space would be filled ;)
23:48:32 <flo> I would still want the status icon. It's meant to be displayed above the buddy icon
23:48:37 <flo> consistency! :-P
23:49:14 <aleth> I know
23:49:48 <aleth> You could stick the number of participants there... that's kind of a status ;)
23:50:09 <aleth> (Not being entirely serious)
23:52:23 <flo> great idea :)
23:52:39 <flo> and get rid of the ugly participant list
23:52:48 <aleth> Now THAT I am 100% in favour of
23:53:05 <flo> s/ugly/ugly and awfully slow/
23:53:09 <aleth> Yes
23:53:15 <aleth> And you only need it on-demand
23:53:24 <aleth> Most of the time it takes up space and is an eyesore
23:53:28 <flo> need to figure out where to put a way to "demand" it though
23:54:13 <aleth> You could click on the participants number status icon ;)
23:54:41 <aleth> Status icon not usually clickable though...
23:56:08 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 933 to FIXED.
23:56:11 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=933 nor, --, ---, florian, RESO FIXED, http://instantbird.com/'locale' not found
23:56:20 <flo> we could also make clicking the *topic* icon start editing the topic
23:56:31 <flo> like for the status icon on the contact list :-P.
23:56:47 <flo> *that* would make a lot of sense, by the way :)
23:56:54 <aleth> But that is unlike the buddy list text fields (status message in particular)
23:57:22 <flo> + we could put a tooltip on the icon "Click to edit the topic of this chatroom" :)
23:57:23 <aleth> Because of the contact list, clicking the topic itself is much more intuitive
23:57:32 <aleth> And a larger target