#instantbird log on 10 06 2011

All times are UTC.

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02:58:38 <v17al> Hey guys, I'm having trouble building instantbird on a windows machine
02:59:57 <v17al> Here's the failure output I get after about 3 minutes of building http://pastebin.instantbird.com/1001
03:06:15 <Mook> try again?
03:06:44 <Mook> that sound like a msys problem, which is often intermittent.
03:09:52 <v17al> I've tried a few times so far for each msvc version, however I've been sticking to 9 since it's been getting the furthest
03:10:13 <v17al> but i'll let you know what happens after it tries to run again
03:10:35 <Mook> more lines of the build log might help too
03:10:48 <Mook> it looked like it barely saw the error message ;)
03:11:04 <Mook> you're not using make -j are you?
03:11:17 <v17al> make -f client.mk build
03:11:59 <Mook> that sounds okay. (assuming nothing about the make flags in the mozconfig)
03:12:26 <v17al> k lol I have stripped them and added this for the current running build
03:12:47 <v17al> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/1002
03:13:02 <v17al> ooh, so there is a j flag in there?
03:13:05 <Mook> please remove mk_add_options MOZ_MAKE_FLAGS=-j4
03:13:28 <v17al> thanks, trying again now :)
03:13:33 <Mook> on Windows, that's code for mk_add_options PLEASE_BREAK_MY_BUILD=1 ;)
03:13:40 <v17al> haha nice
03:14:12 <Mook> I wonder if you need --disable-accessibility ? it might break other things down the road
03:14:13 <v17al> are you using visual studio for an ide?
03:14:20 <Mook> but we can deal with it when we get to it :p
03:14:25 <v17al> yeah definitely
03:14:34 <Mook> oh, I mostly use gvim or komodo
03:14:50 <v17al> cool
03:14:51 <Mook> but 1) I am biased; 2) I don't actually really hack on instantbird much... I just hang around
03:14:59 <v17al> why not straight vim
03:15:22 <Mook> because I'm on Windows and resizing console windows is painful
03:15:27 <v17al> also the accessibility thing is because when enabled apparently I would need windows sdk 2003 which i don't want
03:15:33 <v17al> haha yeah
03:15:53 <Mook> right; if you are using the express versions of the compiler it gets annoying\
03:16:02 <Mook> that's why we can think about it when we get there ;)
03:16:36 <v17al> a lot of times when i'm doing extensive terminal work I turn on vmware with an ubuntu guest and put it into unity mode
03:16:54 <v17al> that way i don't need to deal with the uglyness of putty :(
03:17:26 <Mook> ah. I kinda like putty, except for the bit where attempting to reconnect hangs it (I quit and make a new instance instead)
03:17:30 <v17al> the build has definitely gone further tahn normal
03:17:46 <v17al> yeah putty is cool, but you can't beat linux term
03:18:27 <Mook> but then I'm using an old fork, http://ntu.csie.org/~piaip/pietty/ (.... but that page is only partly english.)
03:19:18 <v17al> is it transparent on windows?
03:20:30 <Mook> I think it can be? though I don't set it that way
03:20:32 <v17al> I'm guessing this thing takes a fortnight to compile?
03:20:51 <Mook> you must have a fast machine! :p
03:21:00 <v17al> haha
03:21:18 <Mook> probably closer to an hour or two
03:21:56 <Mook> unless you're doing Very Special things. I've done things that approached that (with firefox, not instantbird, but the bulk of the compile was the same). don't do that.
03:22:36 <v17al> yeah, sounds about right. Do you need to recompile everything after making a change, or is it possible to, compile say the instantbird code and not the mozilla stuff?
03:23:25 <Mook> that should be fine, yes
03:23:43 <Mook> make -C objdir-ib-release/instantbird or whatever
03:24:01 <v17al> nice
03:24:27 <v17al> thanks for the help! hopefully this thing pans out and I can start looking at some code in the morning. ttyl!
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08:24:52 <Mic> Hi
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08:48:45 <flo> hello :)
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10:09:38 <flo> I'm glad I didn't put my patch from yesterday, the |wrappedJSObject: this| line didn't work! :)
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10:21:00 <flo> I still need to find an efficient way to iterate/test my bootstrapped add-ons
10:21:37 <flo> To avoid wasting time finding the terminal where I type make to recreate the archive, I typed this: |while true; do sleep 1; make -s; done|
10:21:49 <flo> but I still have to go to the add-on manager and reinstall each time...
10:24:32 <clokep> Restarting doesn't update it?
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10:24:52 <flo> takes too much time
10:24:56 <flo> it's a *restartless* add-on
10:25:51 <flo> maybe I should write an add-on to add a command line parameter to reinstall (without prompting or showing any UI) and add-on
10:26:03 <flo> so that the makefile could just do it when it detects the file has changed
10:26:16 <flo> s/and/an/
10:28:51 <clokep> Right, but it's meant to be restartless for users, not necessarily for developers. ;)
10:29:06 * flo doesn't like restarting
10:31:44 <Mic> flo: you can use a 'proxy' file to point to the folder where an unpacked copy of the extension lives.
10:32:02 <Mic> Clicking disable/enable in the add-ons manager works fine then
10:32:13 <Mic> (the proxy file is the one named like the id of the extension)
10:32:24 <Mic> That's how I do it.
10:32:34 <flo> does it need to be in the extensions folder, or in the profile folder's extensions folder?
10:33:10 <Mic> In the extensions-subfolder of the profile folder .. you can look it up on MDN, I'm sure. 
10:33:11 <Mic> gtg
10:35:20 <Mic> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Setting_up_extension_development_environment#Firefox_extension_proxy_file
10:35:45 <Mic> but now I've got to go ;)
10:35:58 <flo> ok, thanks, have a nice day :)
10:38:29 <clokep> Ah, disabling/reenabling does it? Nice.
10:39:15 <flo> I would really like if Apple's ReportCrash could be faster :-/
10:39:29 <flo> (yes, I somehow crashed my debug build)
10:40:42 <clokep> :( Which extension are you working on? OTR?
10:40:52 <flo> rot13 ;)
10:41:06 <flo> more secure than OTR! :)
10:41:28 <flo> and the name contains the same letters ;)
10:42:53 <clokep> Hahah.
10:43:05 <Mic> d'oh .. when cooking milk for a sweet lunch one should really choose wisely between paying attention and looking up links on MDN.
10:43:14 <Mic> I hope you treasure that link, flo :P
10:46:58 <flo> so MDN doesn't have a milk overflow detector?
10:48:16 <flo> it would be so much nicer if JS error messages could contain the name of the variable that is related to the error, rather than a randomly picked variable name among the variables defined in the same function
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11:35:38 <Mic> flo, so you're doing a proof-of-concept rot13 encryption extension if I followed the logs correctly?
11:38:13 <Mic> And "writing an extension to support OTR is left as an exercise for the gentle reader" ? (<- that's at least how German instruction books would say it;)
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11:56:51 <flo> Mic: exactly! :)
11:57:35 <flo> I would say for the "js-ctypes enthusiasts" rather than "the gentle reader" though :)
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12:07:08 <clokep_work> And there doesn't seem to be a ton of those. ;)
12:07:20 <clokep_work> Although you could always just re-implement it in JS. :)
12:07:33 <flo> I think the ctype way is easier
12:08:17 <flo> another way to say it is: I think we have more ctypes enthusiasts than cryptography algorithm readers ;)
12:08:58 <flo> I tried to read http://www.cypherpunks.ca/otr/Protocol-v2-3.1.0.html yesterday, and it didn't take me long to decide it wasn't for me ;)
12:11:09 * clokep_work stops upon looking at the scroll bar.
12:12:11 <flo> I stopped after the line that had both an index and an exponent
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12:13:53 <flo> my code fails with the error: Error: "redeclaration of getter message"
12:17:44 <clokep_work> That seems helpful. :P
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12:43:55 <flo> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/1003 is there something obvious I'm missing here?
12:44:12 <flo> I don't understand how this.conversation can be undefined :(
12:47:31 <clokep_work> flo: That looks like it'd be ok.
12:48:02 <flo> the get conversation() getter is never called (I've just added some dump calls in there)
12:48:24 <flo> It really sucks to not have a debugger
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13:08:49 <flo> and the problem was... Ci not defined!
13:09:01 <flo> arrg, I would really have expected to see an error somewhere about that :(
13:09:26 <flo> or some code throwing an exception, or whatever
13:09:32 <flo> but no, it just ignored the whole prototype...
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13:26:13 <flo> http://queze.net/goinfre/rot13.png
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13:28:00 <aleth> lol
13:28:12 <aleth> next: the 1337sp3ak plugin  ;)
13:28:25 <flo> aleth: go ahead :)
13:28:49 <aleth> actually I immediately thought: "translation!"
13:29:37 <aleth> really nice proof-of-principle :)
13:30:19 <flo> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/1004 the code isn't terribly long
13:31:43 <flo> having to reimplement all the attributes of purpleIMessage in MessageWrapper is sad, but extending C++ XPCOM components with a JS component doesn't work really well :(
13:31:44 <instantbot> c++ is evil
13:33:08 <aleth> do you stick the code for such demo add-ons on a developer wiki?
13:33:57 <flo> I usually push them to this hg repository: https://hg.instantbird.org/addons/
13:34:36 <flo> and https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Creating_Extensions#Examples references some of them
13:35:33 <aleth> cool
13:36:12 * flo has just discovered https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Press-Coverage:1.0
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14:05:53 <brotheroddball> hello all
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14:07:44 <brotheroddball> Hey, anybody here familiar with WordPress?
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14:21:00 <aleth> Just spotted this one (for your list) http://www.heise.de/software/download/instantbird/48551
14:21:43 <aleth> surprisingly few user rankings though
14:23:53 <clokep_work> flo: Did you really never see that page? :P
14:24:05 <flo> clokep_work: yes
14:24:08 <clokep_work> And yes, feel free to add other things to that.
14:25:17 <flo> clokep_work: what's the purpose? Is it to build a list of people we should contact for the next releases? To have quotes that we want to re-use for marketing material?
14:25:19 <aleth> lol - on heise.de, for pidgin the first review says "A very good, but messy developed IM" (google translate)
14:26:23 <flo> some other great tweets: http://twitter.com/#!/lehresman/statuses/14378968882 http://twitter.com/#!/nkyadav/statuses/21576732038 http://twitter.com/#!/plumlipstick/status/11282689390
14:29:52 <brotheroddball> flo: Praise for the default sounds! That is high praise indeed...
14:30:01 <brotheroddball> Usualy the first thing I do is turn off notification sounds
14:30:09 <brotheroddball> this goes for any OS or IM program
14:30:20 <clokep_work> flo: Just to keep track of who's talking about us and what they're saying so ew could go back and see what feedback we received. (I.e. mostly what improvements people think we should make.)
14:30:29 <clokep_work> Also quotes was something nice I figured I'd throw in there. :)
14:30:49 <flo> brotheroddball: well, I wasn't as interested in the sound part as in the "everything I wanted [...] in terms of ease of use and user interface."
14:31:09 <flo> clokep_work: people want OTR! :-P
14:31:12 <brotheroddball> flo, Lol. True.
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14:38:12 <clokep_work> flo: Well they'll be able to implement it now, right? :)
14:38:22 <flo> :)
14:45:38 <aleth> isn't OTR a little bit like a massive supersecure airlock entrance to your house - possibly useful in the right context, but when the windows are usually left unchanged...?
14:46:25 <aleth> or maybe their is a group of users that require it for work purposes?
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14:48:11 <clokep_work> From reading descriptions of OTR, it came off to me that people don't understand what it's really used for and that all communication is not private without it. idk.
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14:59:59 <flo> aleth: right, the windows are definitely unchanged :)
15:00:30 <flo> I think for most users a big dialog saying "relax, you are secure" would have almost the same effect (with less bugs)
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15:00:57 <aleth> lol
15:01:12 <aleth> a friendly "don't panic!" splash screen
15:02:23 <aleth> One could possibly advertise the "ssl-on-by-default" more by mentioning that it corresponds to "https" which is more familiar
15:03:53 <aleth> not exactly the same thing, but you get the idea
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15:04:26 <clokep_work> I didn't know we were providing the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy in Instantbird...
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15:17:27 <clokep_work> We could actually provide an icon for accounts connected over SSL too if we wanted to.
15:17:43 <clokep_work> (And maybe give priority to SSL accounts if multiple are available?)
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15:22:36 <aleth> Maybe one could use some of the visual language from Firefox - i.e. colour-coding the protocol icons in the top right corner of the chat green/blue and/or making them clickable like the "site info" in the URL bar in FF
15:23:16 <aleth> Or put a little key in the status bar
15:24:26 <aleth> Btw I think it would be nice if the status bar made the same transition as that in Firefox from 3.6 to 4 (i.e. overlay in the message area when needed only)
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15:26:46 <aleth> Because it's just empty most of the time
15:28:29 <clokep_work> Code it up. ;)
15:29:08 <aleth> Hey, user interface changes are usually the most sensitive things to stick your oar in ;)
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15:43:17 <clokep_work> The one in the convertion Window is actually used btw.
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16:54:13 <aleth> clokep_work: but only if you hover over a link?
16:54:42 <flo> aleth: or if your contact is typing
16:54:52 <flo> aleth: or if you are replying to a tweet
16:55:06 <flo> or typing a tweet (with the number of characters left)
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16:58:22 <aleth> Right. So it would not be ideal (or at least not trivial) to make it an overlay then
16:59:13 <clokep_work> I was just pointing out it's used for a few different things.
16:59:40 <clokep_work> And "overlaying" in this case would be a little weird, what would it overlay? The actual conversation or the text box?
17:00:01 <aleth> Yes, thanks for that.
17:00:47 <aleth> That's what I meant with not trivial - an URL might overlay the conversation, while you'd rather want the twitter character count to be in the text box...
17:00:51 <clokep_work> The links would look fine in the corner of the conversation I think, but Idk where the other use cases could really go?
17:01:08 <clokep_work> I think the reply to line wouldn't fit well though.
17:03:01 <aleth> You'd probably have to expand the textbox. So it seems the present use cases would have to split up into different implementations... :(
17:03:46 <aleth> I hadn't tried those new twitter features yet - nicely done btw!
17:05:00 <flo> how do you know it's nicely done if you haven't tried them yet? :)
17:09:00 <aleth> I tried them when you mentioned them above :)
17:11:18 <flo> ok :)
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17:45:21 <clokep_work> aleth: Yes, I agree. We'd need to split into a few things...maybe start with a mock up if you're really interested in it?
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18:55:33 <aleth> What is the difference in CSS between a class xyz{ ... } and one that starts with #, #xzy{ ... }?
18:56:02 <aleth> (not sure what to search for on mdn)
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19:01:11 <Mook_as> aleth: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/CSS/Getting_Started/Selectors I think
19:01:29 <Mook_as> possibly look at other things linked on https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/learn/css too
19:03:22 <aleth> thanks!
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19:33:04 <clokep_work> aleth: Do you bounce in and out while testing things? It's possible to run two instances of Instantird at once. :)
19:35:11 <aleth> Yes, I know how, but I was being lazy...
19:35:22 <aleth> Thanks anyway
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19:42:10 * flo has pushed the code of his rot13 add-on (https://hg.instantbird.org/addons/rev/e6428b1ffeba)
19:43:11 <Mook_as> nice :D
19:43:49 * Mook_as would probably use originalAddConversationFunction.apply(cs, [wrapper] + Array.slice(arguments, 1)); just to be more future-proof
19:44:46 <flo> Mook_as: I'm afraid the MessageWrapper.prototype is not future proof at all
19:45:00 <Mook_as> hehe
19:45:39 <flo> well, except if we decide to add it in jsProtoHelper and to maintain it in Instantbird
19:46:04 <Mook_as> it only implements purpleIMessage?
19:46:12 <flo> yes
19:46:21 <flo> it just inherits from this._msg
19:46:38 <flo> but if I put this._msg as __proto__, xpconnect will keep only the C++ class :(
19:46:59 <Mook_as> right. I suspect you want something closer to https://developer.mozilla.org/en/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Proxy
19:47:37 <flo> the warning at the top of that page looks super friendly :)
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19:50:52 <flo> clokep_work: http://queze.net/goinfre/mail.app-dock-badge.png the dock badge looks like this for Mail.app
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19:52:16 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org added attachment 867 to bug 977.
19:52:19 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=977 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Unread count hard to read on Dock icon
19:53:22 <clokep_work> flo: Yes, is there any reason we shouldn't match that?
19:55:30 <flo> I don't know how to make the dented shape
19:55:37 <flo> but I guess we can match the color
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20:00:16 <clokep_work> flo: Ah, I didn't see that at first.
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22:01:31 <flo> clokep: even if I make it red, it's still very ugly: http://queze.net/goinfre/dock-badge-red.png :(
22:04:19 <aleth> "Have you ever built an air application where you wanted to inform the user about new events (e.g. unread messages or news)? OS X provides an consistent way for this by using the applications dock icon. If you receive for example 3 new mails, a red badge will be displayed at the Mail.app dock icon. Every OS X application can use this functionality *as it is part of the Cocoa framework*. "
22:04:40 <aleth> no idea if that is any help...
22:08:05 <flo> I tried to make it bold, but I can't see any difference after doing it :-/
22:13:25 <flo> http://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central/diff/7d85c2f48e77/mailnews/base/src/nsMessengerOSXIntegration.mm that patch seems... interesting! :)
22:28:12 <flo> aleth: using the Cocoa API was a good idea
22:28:34 <flo> it wasn't possible at the time we first added the dock badge because we still supported OSX 10.4
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22:58:16 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 1057 to FIXED.
22:58:18 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1057 maj, --, 1.1a1, florian, RESO FIXED, Focus broken when renaming a contact
22:59:28 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 977 to FIXED.
22:59:29 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=977 nor, --, 1.1a1, florian, RESO FIXED, Unread count hard to read on Dock icon
23:01:27 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/f7a0a00d2a7f - Florian Quèze - Bug 977 - Unread count hard to read on Dock icon.
23:01:28 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/5e0b3511902c - Florian Quèze - Remove the duplication of the code sending the 'new-text' notifications to the observer service.
23:01:29 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/ee1f7cda3169 - Florian Quèze - Bug 1057 - Focus broken when renaming a contact.
23:03:50 <flo> Good night :)
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23:35:36 <v17al> Hey guys, I made a few changes to an instantbird jsm and I wanted to recompile it. I was told to use "make -C objdir-ib-release/instantbird" however this seems to have broken pretty much all functionality, any ideas?
23:36:06 <clokep> Can you be more specific about "broken pretty much all functionality"?
23:36:12 <clokep> Does the build succeed?
23:37:33 <v17al> yup, but after opening instantbird it looked normal, but I couldn't use any of the menu items (they click properly but nothing opens) and my contact list was empty
23:37:44 <clokep> Are there errors in the error console?
23:38:28 <v17al> how would I check that out?
23:38:39 <clokep> Tools > Error console
23:38:49 <v17al> I didn't see that..
23:38:54 <clokep> (Please use http://pastebin.instantbird.org if you need to send large amounts of content btw.)
23:39:14 <clokep> Yup, it's helpful. :)
23:39:19 <v17al> yeah definitely
23:39:46 <v17al> i tried a make -C objdir-ib-release/ and it's doing a lot right now so I can't reconfirm the situation
23:40:49 <clokep> Yes, that'll recompile all of mozilla.
23:40:56 <clokep> So it'll take a while. :(
23:40:57 <v17al> this will probably take an hour so i'll let you know what happen afterwards. Thanks for the help! Also next time I modify a jsm couldn't I just do it from the objdir-ib-release/instantbird folder?
23:41:20 <v17al> They're not compiled in the code I'm guessing
23:41:28 <clokep> Well the jsms actually end up under obj-dir/mozilla/dist/bin/modules I believe.
23:41:41 <clokep> But it's better to modify it in the repository so you don't have to port change sback.
23:41:46 <v17al> true
23:42:04 <v17al> do you know of any work on sound toggling?
23:42:22 <clokep> What do you mean by "sound toggling"?
23:42:31 <v17al> turning on/off various sound events
23:42:46 <v17al> like outgoing/incoming message, contacts logging on/off
23:43:06 <clokep> Ah, got it.
23:43:22 <clokep> I do not. I know it's been requested before...
23:43:46 <clokep> bug 948 is about it though.
23:43:50 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=948 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Finer control over sound notifications (i.e. receiving chat ping vs. instant message)
23:43:51 <v17al> k
23:44:16 <clokep> Doesn't seem to have too much information though. :)
23:44:20 <v17al> lol yeah
23:44:28 <clokep> You'd want to look at ibSounds.jsm though (which is where you edited I assume?)
23:44:37 <v17al> yup!
23:44:49 <v17al> I think I'll have to look into open source development standards first, just starting out on this front
23:45:08 <v17al> I'm sure mozilla has some good guides on getting started though
23:45:14 <clokep> "development standards" you mean like coding style stuff?
23:45:34 <clokep> We "generally" follow Mozilla's, but if you do things wrong we'll let you know during the review process. :)
23:45:38 <v17al> That and also just how things operate
23:45:48 <v17al> lol I'm sure you will!
23:45:55 <clokep> Ohhhh, yeah. Let us know if you have questions though, people are generally around to help out. :)
23:46:11 <clokep> (Unless you're in like GMT - 5, that might be rough)
23:46:19 <v17al> -4 :P
23:47:06 <v17al> From what I've seen there seems to be at least one person around though. I checked out a few projects before this one which were terrible, this one is a huge step up
23:47:28 <clokep>  Then I'll most likely be around at the same time, although I go to bed early and tend to keep more of like UTC-2 hours.
23:48:02 <clokep> Similar to how I got involved too. :) Mozilla was too big to easily get started in, but most projects are so small / not really developed on.
23:48:36 <v17al> Definitely, I tried out RSSOwl for a second and pretty much got asked to leave
23:48:46 <v17al> One guy running the show,
23:48:49 <clokep> :(
23:49:04 <v17al> Kinda defeats the foss thing
23:49:07 <clokep> Yes. :(
23:49:29 <clokep> I mean of course you don't necessarily want to accept EVERY change, but it's good to foster new people. :)
23:49:44 <EionRobb> just fork the project
23:49:59 * clokep hates software forks. :P
23:50:11 <clokep> Although I've done a couple for myself...
23:50:24 <v17al> Well I'll try to get as involved as possible. I'm in talks with RIM on getting hired which might ruin my involvement (they don't allow their devs to work elsewhere)
23:51:02 <clokep> Oh? Most companies are fairly supportive of open source stuff AFAIK, as long sa you don't use proprietary knowledge, of course. :)
23:51:14 <clokep> (I guess it depends how closely the stuff is related to what you're working on too.)
23:51:38 <v17al> Yeah, I think they cover their butts with a no innovation agreement in their contract
23:52:16 <v17al> Basically lets you give advice and maybe code a little, but you're not allowed to actually help out by doing stuff which actually moves a project forward
23:52:20 <EionRobb> I used to have one of those things in my contract, but it turns out they're illegal in nz contract law
23:52:35 <v17al> Nice lol
23:53:03 <v17al> I imagine RIM has enough lawyers to determine what they can do though
23:53:05 <clokep> Ah, I just have to notify if it's something related to my work and/or for money.
23:55:34 <v17al> Error console won't open either :S
23:57:24 <clokep> When you run instantbird.exe run it with "instantbird.exe -jsconsole"
23:58:55 <v17al> i might have broken the module lol, once sec
23:59:26 <clokep> Haha.
23:59:35 <clokep> If you want me to look at a diff and see if there's anyhting obvious I can.
23:59:51 <v17al> nah I broke the if statment lol