#instantbird log on 09 29 2011

All times are UTC.

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01:53:05 * clokep1 has a mostly working restartless Auto-Link working. :)
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01:56:07 <clokep1> The new nickserv killer gives me the warning about having unread messages though. :( It would be nice if it could mark them as read too...
01:56:17 <clokep1> Anyway, goodnight.
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09:23:30 <flo> hello :)
09:28:29 <lewellyn> hello
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09:46:37 <aleth> Whole bunch of new warnings since mozilla7, eg "Warning: Expected ':' but found 'undefined'.  Declaration dropped. Source File: chrome://instantbird/content/preferences/preferences.xul Line: 0"
09:46:49 <aleth> Look harmless though
09:47:29 <lewellyn> so the new qq should be in the latest nightly?
09:47:36 <flo> yes, it is
09:48:39 <lewellyn> k. i'm downloading latest nightly now. being slow :(
09:49:26 <aleth> Twitter support is getting really polished :)
09:50:13 <lewellyn> about 1 more minute till i have the latest nightly :/
09:51:46 <lewellyn> ok. now to try qq! :D
09:52:28 <flo> lewellyn: how come is it so slow?
09:52:33 <lewellyn> no clue :(
09:52:38 <lewellyn> it was like 30kb/s
09:52:51 <flo> bit? or byte?
09:53:14 <lewellyn> um. i'm guessing byte. the window doesn't specify ;)
09:53:29 <flo> B is byte
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09:53:33 <lewellyn> hm. it dies at requesting captcha here too
09:53:55 <lewellyn> so it's perceptually the same to someone trying to use qq
09:53:56 <flo> isn't that what the previous plugin also did?
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09:54:15 <lewellyn> well, until it started saying (in chinese) that your version is too old :)
09:56:10 <lewellyn> well hell. now i get the captcha each time i connect with the real client :(
09:57:38 <flo> even when the network goes down and it has to reconnect?
09:58:28 <lewellyn> looks like every time i touch a qq login
09:58:34 <lewellyn> they're feeding me 5-character captchas now too
09:58:41 <lewellyn> grr
09:59:06 * lewellyn is poking a qq user in france to make sure it's not just "you're a foreigner"
09:59:38 * flo doesn't understand that
10:00:11 <lewellyn> people ddos qq from outside china for whatever reason
10:00:45 <flo> oh so you think with a chinese IP there may be no captcha?
10:00:58 <lewellyn> since qq ids are very readily obtained, throwing up a captcha instead of going through the full login process is easier on the login servers.
10:01:38 <lewellyn> flo: it happens sometimes. my contacts at tencent are idle right now, else i'd ask if that's why i'm seeing captchas
10:02:09 <lewellyn> they're about a month away from releasing something new, too. i don't know what. but that may be related.
10:02:18 <lewellyn> or it may just be that the libqq plugin flagged me :D
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10:08:22 <lewellyn> bah. my .fr contact's .cn girlfriend is in town. i'm betting he'll be unavailable for an hour or so ;)
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10:21:08 <lewellyn> hahaha. i just noticed his qq message of "*邪恶的洋鬼子*" or "*Evil Foreign Devil". no wonder he gets all the girls.
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10:34:50 <flo> I'm not super happy with the shape of http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/stats/
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10:42:03 <aleth> :O has there been any feedback explaining why people leave?
10:42:19 <flo> no
10:42:30 <flo> I think people have always been leaving
10:42:32 <aleth> Maybe 1.1 will give another boost upwards
10:42:51 <aleth> and this is just a normal decay rate
10:42:55 <flo> I suspect it's rather a drop in the download rates that cause the leaving users to not be replaced
10:43:17 <flo> because nobody's been talking about us/giving download links in the last few weeks
10:44:33 <clokep> It would be nice to have feedback...but I don't think people usually give feedback unless they think it's "good enough" to use, but has a few minor annoyances.
10:44:38 <clokep> It's hard to get people to change software.
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10:45:07 <aleth> You could view it positively and say most people who tried 1.0 stuck with it :)
10:45:49 <flo> aleth: I don't have a download per day chart, but I'm sure the retention rate of users keeping instantbird after downloading it has very significantly improved with 1.0.
10:46:31 <flo> my gross (and maybe completly off) estimations would say it was ~3% before and is closer to 10 now.
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10:47:29 <aleth> That's pretty good
10:47:43 <flo> so, my Win7 VM still has 0.3pre, will it update to the very latest nightly successfully? :)
10:49:10 <aleth> One turnoff I have mentioned before is the fact that lots of add-ons/themes marked compatible with 1.0 cannot actually be installed. If you are a new user thinking "cool!! addons!" this can be disappointing and also does not appear very polished, which will wrongly be taken to reflect on IB as a whole
10:49:12 <flo> so I first get an update to the very latest 0.3pre dated from july
10:49:26 <flo> then after the update, a 1.1a1pre offer for the build of today
10:49:39 <flo> "view more information about this update" is broken, but that's not a surprised
10:50:09 <aleth> e.g. you go to the add-on site for the first time, under "most popular" you see "Blackened", you think "great" and then...
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10:50:26 <flo> aleth: I think the fact that we said it was a twitter client and actually didn't work well for that in 1.0 also hurt significantly our image
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10:51:41 <lewellyn> and i didn't even realize it does twitter till a couple weeks ago ;)
10:51:48 <aleth> flo: 1.1 is definitely quite a significant improvement in lots of ways... much more than a bugfix release. Will be important to point that out
10:52:12 <flo> lewellyn: and you still haven't realized yet that wince isn't usable. You probably aren't the "typical" user ;).
10:52:53 <lewellyn> flo: it's probably less useful without PB + BSPs ;)
10:52:55 <aleth> lewellyn: wince just follows its literal meaning ;)
10:53:28 <lewellyn> why not number it 1.5 btw, so it has more impact than "just a bugfix"?
10:53:56 <flo> or 2.0, so that each new version has a new major version number ;)
10:54:26 <lewellyn> just like firefox! ;)
10:54:53 <aleth> ssh! firefox doesn't have version numbers anymore! ;)
10:54:56 <flo> really? They got that idea before us? :-O
10:55:25 <lewellyn> you know, i just realized something!
10:55:42 <lewellyn> instantbird will never be seen as a "real" irc client until it has "Now Playing" functionality! ;)
10:55:57 <flo> it's planned ;)
10:56:04 <flo> maybe not for IRC though
10:56:05 <lewellyn> oh god :(
10:56:19 <lewellyn> oh! for irc make it the /away message :D
10:56:36 <flo> how is this handled for IRC by "real" irc clients ? :-D
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10:57:06 <lewellyn> people write scripts to emit what they're listening to with mirc/ansi colors and unicode decorations :(
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10:57:27 <lewellyn> i find it a reason to set mode +b ;)
10:58:39 <flo> uh, why has bug 872 been left in the unconfirmed state? :(
10:58:42 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=872 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Incorrect text on "Get Add-ons" page
10:58:49 <flo> it's probably a blocker :(
11:00:09 <flo> "DOM Inspector is incompatible with Instantbird 1.1a1pre" :(
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11:02:31 <flo> is there anything left to do in bug 986 and bug 979 for Windows?
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11:02:35 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=986 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, OS specific theming for "unread count"
11:02:36 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=979 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Fix look for "Hidden conversations" /"Contacts" contact list sections and their headers
11:03:21 <flo> looking at the current nightly in my Win7 VM doesn't look uglier than looking at other win7 applications
11:03:36 <flo> s/win7 applications/windows applications on win7/
11:04:39 <FeuerFliege> flo: I uploaded a new version yesterday or so
11:04:50 <flo> of DOMi?
11:04:53 <FeuerFliege> flo: re: DOM Inspector
11:04:55 <FeuerFliege> yes
11:05:03 <flo> does it need a review or something?
11:05:06 <FeuerFliege> it is currently “In Sandbox; Pending Review”
11:05:14 <flo> that sucks :-D
11:05:35 <FeuerFliege> it is just a max-version change.
11:06:06 <flo> do you need to upload a new file for that?
11:06:35 <FeuerFliege> is it possilble to change that without uploading a new file?
11:06:38 <flo> sure
11:06:56 <flo> just go to "Versions and Files" and change it :)
11:07:07 <flo> maxVersion changes don't need review ;)
11:08:26 <FeuerFliege> well ok. I deleted the uploaded version and changed the max-version on the website.
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11:08:58 <flo> lunch time
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11:21:56 <instantbot> aletheia2@fastmail.fm set the Resolution field on bug 1026 to FIXED.
11:21:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1026 nor, --, 1.1a1, aletheia2, RESO FIXED, Email addresses are filtered out of conversations content
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12:00:26 <flo> Mic: hello. I'm confused on what's left to do w.r.t Windows theming and conversations on hold. Could you comment on the bug(s) to state clearly what needs to be done?
12:02:50 <flo> it seems none of the outstanding bugs we still have for 1.1 requires string changes. Should we announce a string freeze tomorrow? (I assume that would be enough time to let lewellyn ping whoever he needed to determine if the QQ changes are of any value and if we should commit the new QQ strings)
12:03:44 <flo> I think translators tend to have more free time to work on their translations during week-ends, so a Friday is probably a good time for announcing a string freeze
12:07:16 <lewellyn> flo: tbh, it seems libqq is the way forward, regardless.
12:07:34 <lewellyn> even if it doesn't quite work by 1.1, it likely isn't going to be replaced post-1.1
12:07:53 <flo> the libpurple way is dead anyway
12:08:28 <lewellyn> yup. and i don't think anyone's gonna deal with that protocol in javascript, and it doesn't make sense to fracture the work.
12:08:41 <lewellyn> best to get changes into libqq so everyone can benefit.
12:09:14 <lewellyn> so the net effect, as a worst case, is that qq is perceptibly the same to users in 1.1 but there are new strings for when it finally works ;)
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12:22:03 <flo> yeah, that makes sense.
12:22:30 <flo> I just dislike sending strings to translators when I have no clue of where they are going to be displayed (or suspect they won't be displayed at all).
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12:25:19 <lewellyn> yeah. but it's better than "don't translate this yet! but translate this other stuff!" then having "this" translateable a week later, knowing all along it'd likely be needed :/
12:26:18 <flo> lewellyn: I don't understand that point. If we don't do it now, it will be batched with the strings from the next libpurple update.
12:26:40 <lewellyn> ok. i don't know what you guys have planned. :)
12:26:57 <lewellyn> but if it'd be a special translation effort in just a matter of days, it seems silly :)
12:26:58 <flo> I don't know if there'll be another libpurple update soon.
12:27:11 <flo> they are working on 3.0 so it may take months before something get released on that side
12:27:58 <flo> the changes are 27 insertions(+), 39 deletions(-)
12:28:48 <flo> -needsAuthorization=%u needs authorization
12:28:48 <flo> +needsAuthorization=%s needs authorization
12:28:49 <flo> That change sucks :(
12:29:10 <lewellyn> yeah. perhaps we can fix up some of those things tomorrow if nothing else :)
12:30:32 <flo> it would be nice to know if the code, as is, can connected at all.
12:31:00 <flo> if it can't, the good decision would probably be to stop shipping it until it's fixed.
12:37:17 <lewellyn> yeah. tomorrow i'll look. :)
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12:59:08 <DGMurdockIII> or look to adum
12:59:28 <DGMurdockIII> adium i think they suport QQ and it works
13:01:57 <DGMurdockIII> http://sourceforge.net/projects/lumaqqproject/
13:06:52 <DGMurdockIII> As mentioned above, this is fixed upstream in Pidgin.
13:06:52 <DGMurdockIII> In order to use QQ, you need to force your client version to be 2008. Pidgin allows this in its latest version, and libpurple apparently has support for forcing the QQ protocol version.
13:06:52 <DGMurdockIII> In order to restore QQ functionality, all Adium needs to do is allow the user to specify the client version, as Pidgin does. It would also be sensible to default to QQ 2008, as previous versions do not work at the moment for many users.
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13:10:34 <lewellyn> adium hasn't supported qq since anyone else has.
13:10:35 <flo> DGMurdockIII: just in case you haven't looked at your calendar recently, we are in 2011, not 2008 ;).
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13:10:59 <lewellyn> part of my motivation for qq in instantbird is to grab unhappy mac users ;)
13:11:13 <lewellyn> the mac qq client is deficient :(
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13:11:34 <flo> do we have a Chinese locale?
13:11:51 <lewellyn> i don't know.
13:12:09 <DGMurdockIII> having QQ support would help get one if there isnt one
13:12:27 <flo> hmm, we have https://hg.instantbird.org/l10n/zh-TW/ but I don't know how close to being complete it is
13:12:34 <flo> https://hg.instantbird.org/l10n/zh-CN/ is empty
13:12:36 <lewellyn> that's the wrong chinese :(
13:12:59 <flo> "wrong chinese"?
13:13:05 <lewellyn> traditional vs simplified
13:13:20 <lewellyn> TW is traditional, CN is simplified
13:13:52 <lewellyn> i'll package it up for solaris once qq support works and get some people to poke at it and hopefully commit to some translations :)
13:14:18 <DGMurdockIII> I thought tw was Taiwan
13:14:47 <lewellyn> DGMurdockIII: yes. and they use the traditional characters, as opposed to the mainland.
13:14:56 <FeuerFliege> DGMurdockIII: don’t start the whose-china-is-the-real-china game ;)
13:15:17 <DGMurdockIII> can anyone tell me how i can turn off the beping in mirc when i get a message
13:15:22 <DGMurdockIII> sent to me
13:15:25 <lewellyn> FeuerFliege: the bigger china will always win. they have some really cute girls in their military! ;)
13:17:11 <flo> DGMurdockIII: use Instantbird instead of mirc :-P
13:17:30 <DGMurdockIII> k
13:18:27 <lewellyn> flo: how do you turn off the dinging when you get highlighted in instantbird? ;)
13:18:30 * lewellyn ducks
13:18:40 <flo> lewellyn: you can turn of all messaging sounds
13:18:58 <lewellyn> yeah. that's not the same though. we've been through this. :)
13:19:01 <flo> or if you are an add-on developer, play with our shiny new interruption manager ;)
13:19:22 <flo> probably less than 10 lines of code
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17:17:03 <flo> http://blog.kylehuey.com/post/10809692134/using-xhr-onload-etc-in-addons (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=687332) probably means we have something to fix here http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/purplexpcom/src/http.jsm#59 before upgrading to moz10.
17:17:53 <Mook_as> https://blog.mozilla.com/mwu/2011/09/29/mozilla-central-now-with-88-7-less-prbool/ might make for some crying as well
17:19:09 <flo> Mook_as: but I would expact that to be very visible in the compile log ;)
17:19:17 <flo> *expect
17:19:17 <Mook_as> heh, true
17:19:26 <Jocelyn> Hi, I need help with a registry question ... can anyone help me with it please ?
17:20:27 * Mook_as somehow assumes that means nsIWindowsRegKey
17:20:46 <flo> isn't it about the domain name registries?
17:21:09 <flo> seriously though, Jocelyn, we can't help you if you don't ask your question ;)
17:29:01 <Jocelyn> Hi Mook_as ... yes, my problem is my AntiVirus is trying to force me to upgrade to a later version, however the newer version really bogs down my system ... I'm finding that the AntiVirus company is deleting my uninstall key for the AntiVirus ... so I've had to copy the uninstall key to re-import it back to the registry ... I understand that one can restrict permissions to the registry but...
17:29:03 <Jocelyn> ...I'm not exactly clear on how to do it ... I've tried searching for tutorials on how to do this on the net but it's not very clear to me how I would go about doing this ... I would like to restrict the AntiVirus from deleting the uninstall key ... 
17:29:38 <flo> how is this related to Instantbird?
17:30:27 <Jocelyn> Um, it's not ... I needed help and I was hoping someone could help me with this ... 
17:31:28 <lewellyn> it sounds like you should be contacting your antivirus vendor's support not the channel regarding an instant meseenger.
17:32:31 <Jocelyn> Yes, but I don't think I'd get any help from them as they are the ones trying to force me to upgrade to the later version ...
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18:02:56 <instantbot> benediktp@ymail.com added attachment 854 to bug 979.
18:02:59 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=979 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Fix look for "Hidden conversations" /"Contacts" contact list sections and their headers
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18:05:39 <instantbot> benediktp@ymail.com added attachment 855 to bug 979.
18:05:41 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=979 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Fix look for "Hidden conversations" /"Contacts" contact list sections and their headers
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19:04:13 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 
19:05:11 <flo> lewellyn: I've just had an unexpected opportunity to talk to 2 QQ users.
19:05:24 <lewellyn> woo
19:05:31 <flo> Apparently, even with the official client, they have to enter captcha each time they connect from a different machine or different browser.
19:05:55 <flo> so a captcha is probably required each time the IP is different, + each time cookies are no longer found (in the website case).
19:08:00 <lewellyn> yeah. the fact that i have to enter a captcha each time i sign in from the client is new though.
19:08:02 <flo> for the unexpected opportunity: I was talking with a friend, his phone rang, he started talking on the phone and the conversation went "blahblahblahblah... yeah, ok, we will talk about it on QQ this evening, ok? ... Ok, bye."
19:08:42 <lewellyn> yeah, chinese expect everyone they do business with to at least have qq available :)
19:08:43 <flo> the Chinese girl who was with him said she has to enter captchas very often
19:08:53 <lewellyn> yeah. often != constantly.
19:08:57 <lewellyn> i'm used to it every few days
19:09:22 <aleth> sounds really annoying!
19:09:37 <lewellyn> especially if i have my phone turned off... ;) (i have the wrong password in outlook on my phone and i haven't bothered updating it to the latest yet)
19:09:49 <flo> entering a captcha for each login sounds like the crappiest IM experience we could imagine ;)
19:10:30 <lewellyn> aleth: it prevents bots, if there's been enough "change" or "suspicious activity" or "too much time between logins" or "it's been a while since we've presented one"
19:10:54 <lewellyn> what with 1M+ users on qq at any time, i get *very* little spam, so their methods seem fairly effective :)
19:11:30 <flo> how much money do you think we could make with a service handling captchas correctly for bots?
19:11:35 <lewellyn> unlike with aim/msn/icq where a couple times per day i get an im from someone not in my list who is all "hi, do i know you? i'm 24/female/new york. you?" or such.
19:11:36 <flo> it's not very complicated
19:12:02 <lewellyn> flo: i like connecting to services, so i hope auto-captcha doesn't end up in qq ;)
19:12:24 <flo> jsut find the country with the lowest hourly rate but some internet access (even if you have to do it with some satellite access), hire a few thousand people, and make them type captchas days and night for the bot's usage ;)
19:12:51 <lewellyn> also, as for protocols, note that their old qq protocol they use for things like their ce client still works. but no one's bothered reverse-engineering that one. and it doesn't do captchas :)
19:13:00 <Mook_as> flo: wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to just start a porn site?
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19:13:38 <flo> Mook_as: hmm, you mean people would have to type the captcha we need the solution for before accessing their porn?
19:13:43 <lewellyn> so on my phone and netbook, i don't see qq captchas. but i invariably get one the next time i connect from the desktop.
19:13:47 <Mook_as> flo: yep!
19:13:51 <flo> sounds a bit like Google's recapatch thing :-D
19:14:03 <lewellyn> the old protocol also doesn't allow multiple logins :( that's new in qq2010
19:14:30 <lewellyn> tencent is very good at adopting features from competitors :)
19:14:46 <flo> Mook_as: hmm, should we use a porn site to fund Instantbird's development? ;)
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19:55:36 <em3> Hi,
19:55:36 <em3> I can't find english dictionary in add-ons.
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20:15:09 <lewellyn> so... my gf is finally using instantbird... :)
20:15:41 <lewellyn> she's on osx and setting alwaysclose to false still /part's when she closes a tab for irc :(
20:15:55 <lewellyn> it doesn't happen for me on windows though.
20:16:15 <lewellyn> what else useful can be done to figure this out short of having her join?
20:22:08 <flo> Check that she has a recent nightly (check the build id in the about dialog)
20:22:34 <flo> and alwaysClose is now the default, so if you asked her to toggle it in about:config without specifying the value, you just asked her to disable it
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20:23:18 <lewellyn> we just downloaded the latest nightly, and i had her toggle it when she reported the behavior before i knew it was now default :/
20:23:22 <lewellyn> so now it's back at default
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20:24:00 <flo> "when she reported the behavior"?
20:24:17 <lewellyn> to me
20:24:36 <lewellyn> "i can't close the window and it stays in the channel!"
20:25:02 <flo> oh ok :)
20:26:01 <flo> note that user support requires a fair bit of guessing, as you said you set it *to false* ;)
20:27:44 <lewellyn> yes. it was at false, then set to true, then set to false :)
20:27:59 <lewellyn> so the end result was that my statement is correct ;)
20:29:04 <flo> "it was at false, then set to true, then set to false" sounds like a zero-sum game ;)
20:31:38 <lewellyn> yes
20:31:47 <lewellyn> because i wasn't at her machine and told her to toggle it :)
20:35:30 <flo> Good night :)
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20:56:23 <lewellyn> aw flo left :(
20:56:29 <lewellyn> just as i got romonster in here too :)
20:57:09 <aleth> he reads the logs...
20:57:21 <lewellyn> yeah. but that won't help while ro's here :)
20:57:40 <aleth> wait for clokep? ;)
20:57:45 <lewellyn> she's currently hunting for a theme that doesn't annoy her ;)
20:58:02 <lewellyn> i got her Stratini Black as an appearance, but it's not quite "right" with 1.1pre
20:58:11 <aleth> am using minimal 2 at the moment
20:58:21 <lewellyn> romonster: --^
20:58:25 <aleth> but lots of the themes in the add-on manager need a bit of tweaking
20:58:44 <lewellyn> yeah. i showed her how to repack the xpi
20:58:56 <lewellyn> that's as much as i'm doing till she settles on things ;)
20:59:06 <aleth> :)
20:59:09 <Mook_as> she's on a nightly?
20:59:21 <lewellyn> she was complaining that the default themes wouldn't honor her fonts, too
20:59:31 <lewellyn> Mook_as: i hope so. i left the nightly page up for her to download from :)
20:59:55 <aleth> some of the older themes have small bugs too
21:00:04 <Mook_as> check the about dialog?
21:00:06 <romonster> i closed it, i thought you had just left it there
21:00:06 <lewellyn> aleth: yeah. someone needs to go through them all :/
21:00:13 <aleth> but if you find one you like they are easily fixed
21:00:14 <lewellyn> romonster: oh! so you're not on a nightly!?
21:00:19 <lewellyn> that explains a lot
21:00:26 <romonster> yes i am
21:00:31 <lewellyn> ok
21:00:37 <romonster> it sucks
21:00:48 <Mook_as> okay, _which_ nightly? that might be more specific :)
21:01:21 <lewellyn> all i know is that i can't get hidden conversations working for her, which is mildly irritating
21:01:37 <aleth> also strange
21:01:38 <romonster> no idea, whatever i downloaded about half an hour ago
21:01:46 <lewellyn> romonster: check the about dialog
21:01:50 <aleth> they are on by default now afaik
21:02:11 <lewellyn> aleth: the setting indicated so, yes.
21:02:24 <lewellyn> hm. ctcp version responses look funny in instantbird :(
21:02:38 <romonster> what am i looking for in the about box?
21:02:40 <lewellyn> er. at least instantbird's does!
21:02:49 <lewellyn> romonster: a long string with a date embedded
21:03:13 <romonster> not retyping all that
21:03:28 <lewellyn> copy and paste
21:03:39 <lewellyn> version 1.1a1pre (20110929041644) for example
21:03:50 <aleth> there isnt really a way she could have got an old nightly, is there?
21:04:00 <lewellyn> i'd hope not.
21:04:02 <romonster> can't, it won't even allow me to select the text, let alone copy
21:04:12 * lewellyn will wander over there
21:05:06 <Mook_as> you might be able to open about:support to copy from, too
21:05:07 <romonster> version 1.1a1pre (20110929041130)
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21:16:19 <lewellyn> apparently stratini black doesn't have a search box in the add-ons manager :/
21:16:55 <aleth> probably hasnt been updated in yonks?
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21:18:05 <aleth> personally I prefer the OS to do the theming...
21:18:26 <lewellyn> yeah. she's back at default appearance now. stratini black is ancient and broken :/
21:19:11 <lewellyn> like half my extensions are disabled. i should fix that at some point
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21:19:15 <aleth> message styles are more interesting to change anyway
21:19:38 <lewellyn> there's something to be said for the message style and appearance matching :)
21:19:38 <aleth> though there are a lot of features that only exist in bubbles
21:20:02 <aleth> But putting together a really polished theme is lots of work
21:20:03 <lewellyn> i wouldn't know since i can't stand white backgrounds when i can help it :/
21:20:38 <aleth> lewellyn: you could write bubbles-dark ;)
21:21:15 <lewellyn> ETIME
21:21:58 <aleth> always the problem...
21:22:42 <lewellyn> she's convinced instantbird is broken, it seems :/
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21:25:51 <aleth> flo and clokep might be interested to know exactly where she ran into problems...
21:27:20 <lewellyn> yeah. if she'll actually elaborate upon them in here :/
21:27:31 <lewellyn> the whole /part when closing a tab is awfully annoying though
21:27:47 <lewellyn> i don't know why she's seeing it :(
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21:30:37 <romonster> well, it is broken because it won't let me control the appearance, and some of the preferences just display blank windows, and the keystroke to change tabs is funky, and you have to use that silly config editor
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21:31:09 <romonster> and you have to restart it to update the appearance at all
21:31:12 <lewellyn> the config editor was just to change something i didn't know was now default
21:32:01 <romonster> and there is no way to use the system color picker, you're stuck with those stupid windows-style boxes of limited color choices
21:32:34 <romonster> basically it doesn't behave like a proper app
21:34:24 <romonster> part when closing a tab is fine, but not having any way to reopen the tab without restarting the app is not fine
21:34:38 <lewellyn> file -> join chat, here
21:36:54 <romonster> i asked you before and you didn't tell me that
21:37:14 <romonster> also, wtf is up with cmd-I to join a chat?
21:38:25 <aleth> heh. good point
21:39:00 <aleth> I keep hitting cmd-J too...
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21:39:51 <romonster> mhm
21:54:04 <lewellyn> romonster: i didn't know where to look. as i said, my windows pop up automatically when i connect thanks to irssiproxy :/
21:54:32 <aleth> IB does have auto-join
21:54:48 <lewellyn> aleth: yeah. but if conversations don't hide, you have to rejoin
21:54:49 <aleth> e.g. in Accounts -> Properties
21:55:12 <aleth> lewellyn: yes, that conversations not hiding thing is weird
21:55:52 <aleth> What happens when doing it explicitly (tab context menu -> put conv on hold)?
21:56:08 <lewellyn> you'll have to wait for romonster to return to her computer to find out :)
21:56:24 <aleth> ah i thought you were colocated ;)
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21:57:00 <lewellyn> yes. but my office isn't quite near her desk :)
21:57:03 <romonster> well that apparently works, though i had to look pretty hard to find the context menu
21:59:19 <aleth> that's because of bug 859
21:59:22 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=859 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add context menu to 'conv-top'
22:00:40 <aleth> romonster: it's still strange that conversations don't go on hold when you close a tab, because that is the default
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22:18:03 <lewellyn> and something i wish flo had stuck around for ;)
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22:30:20 <rikki> if anybody is interested IB crashed after running for 13 days, but i doubt its your code as it was complaining about unresposive scripts
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23:45:10 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 
23:52:15 <clokep> lewellyn: What's funny about CTCP version? Worked OK last time I checked.
23:52:33 <clokep> The maintainer of Stratini Black updates it every so often. (patrickjdempsy I believe?)
23:53:05 <Mook_as> hmm, your /version response doesn't actually include the version
23:53:58 <clokep> Mook_as: Most (smart) IRC clients don't, it's perceived as a security risk.
23:54:16 <Mook_as> aww
23:54:38 <clokep> :P
23:54:54 <clokep> Ctrl+J isn't used for join chat for some reason...flo would know, he's saving it for something but I forget what.
23:55:13 <clokep> romonster: "some of the preferences just display blank windows", what does that mean?
23:55:21 <clokep> The tab changing keystroke (Ctrl + Tab) is very standard.
23:56:13 <clokep> rikki: If you have the crash log we might be interested. ;)
23:56:30 <clokep> And I'd like to know why hiding isn't working properly as well.