#instantbird log on 09 16 2011

All times are UTC.

00:00:07 <flo> the reason why I wanted them here is so that:
00:00:08 <flo> - we can have completion for @ messages
00:00:08 <flo> - we can unfollow them from the context menu (that isn't implemented yet anyway)
00:01:26 <clokep> That makes sense, yes. I just think it's a little weird to have them "in" the conversation if they're not in the conversation. ;)
00:01:44 <clokep> (I.e. IMO the buddy list should be used to handle things like this in general.)
00:03:15 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1a1pre)
00:03:29 <flo> well, on IRC rooms, we put in the list people who don't talk too
00:03:48 <flo> and the followees are in some way in the timeline conversation as whatever they tweet would appear
00:05:30 <clokep> That's true.
00:05:33 <clokep> I didn't think of it that way...
00:06:29 <flo> it's probably broken their too though
00:06:45 <flo> it's rarely useful to see the list of people we are not currently interacting with
00:07:30 <flo> that list tends to become useless as soon as it's long enough to require a scrollbar = we can no longer see at a glance who is here or not
00:07:35 <clokep> Yes, it'd be nice to see who's talking...
00:08:14 <flo> we've already discussed that at least once (but probably not reached a clear conclusion on what would need to be implemented to have something better)
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00:10:36 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/fccb0af1ba5e - Florian Quèze - Bug 684 - Offer a way to manager the list of followed accounts on twitter, r=clokep.
00:11:14 <flo> the sw:1.1 list would need to shrink way faster if we want to finish it and release by the end of the month :-/
00:12:06 <clokep> I think we'd want to list people talking at the top i na separate group ("Currently Talking") or something, if they've talked in the last XXX minutes (5?).
00:12:33 <clokep> Yeah. :-/  I'm also going to be away the end of the month so I'll try to get a lot done this weekend.
00:12:41 <clokep> (Or at the very least put up WIPs for everything.)
00:13:34 <flo> I'll be offline Saturday morning and Sunday (will spend some time with the AMI ;))
00:15:34 <flo> Good night! :)
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01:19:02 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com added attachment 825 to bug 1020.
01:19:03 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 825 on bug 1020.
01:19:04 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1020 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, IRC sends unrecognized commands to active conversation
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01:45:43 <Nakp> clokep, Morian 
01:45:53 <Nakp> who makes the addons reviews? ¬¬
01:46:03 <Nakp> i have an emoticon set not been reviewed since months!
01:46:10 <clokep> Nakp: Even or flo do.
01:46:18 <Nakp> i dont feel like making a new one ¬¬
01:46:22 <clokep> Did you come in here once before asking about it? I think flo said there wasn't anything in the list.
01:46:37 <clokep> One second, let me see what he said.
01:46:48 <Nakp> yeah but nobody answered
01:47:03 <Nakp> or maybe flo did but not while i was online xD
01:47:15 <Nakp> https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/296/
01:47:21 <Nakp> thats the one not been reviewed
01:47:37 <clokep> He answered while you weren't online.
01:48:02 <clokep> Nakp: http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/110830/#m64
01:48:28 <clokep> Apparently he has nothing in the queue saying it needs reviewing.
01:48:47 <clokep> But you've now given the URL so that should help him track it down. :)
01:48:51 <Nakp> well.. you can see the link i just gave you
01:49:03 <clokep> Yup!
01:49:11 <Nakp> ñ_ñ
01:51:34 <clokep> Sorry I'm not much help, I don't have any privileges on that site.
01:51:43 <Nakp> dont worry
01:51:52 <clokep> flo will definitely see this tomorrow (and he should be able to email you from your email you made the account w/).
01:51:52 <Nakp> at least someone knows about it xD
01:52:20 <Nakp> that would be cool
01:52:43 <Nakp> btw whats new in the nightlies?
01:52:51 <Nakp> im downloading it.. is there any changelog?
01:54:48 <clokep> https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Roadmap:1.1 is kind of what's new (well the stuff that's crossed out is new. :P))
01:54:52 <clokep> The rest isn't implemented.
01:55:18 <Nakp> hahaha ok thats great
01:57:08 <Nakp> well as I said before
01:57:28 <Nakp> personas for instantbird would make it a big hit
01:58:18 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com added attachment 826 to bug 894.
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01:58:19 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 826 on bug 894.
01:58:20 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=894 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Default ICQ settings are wrong
01:58:43 <clokep> Nakp: It would be, we would need someone to go through some of the UI that's not set up for it and make sure it's possible.
02:01:08 <Nakp> well... I think it might be possible for any xul app, just like thunderbird or firefox but it might need to go deeper with their code
02:01:14 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 875 to WORKSFORME.
02:01:15 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=875 cri, --, ---, nobody, RESO WORKSFORME, Unable to register to multiple Twitter account : 'username incorrect'
02:01:29 <clokep> Nakp: It is, we just need someone to apply the proper styles, etc.
02:02:22 <Nakp> well... is there any doc about how to apply personas to xul apps?
02:04:44 <clokep> Nakp: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Themes/Lightweight_themes#See_also seems to be some of the information. :-/
02:09:56 <Nakp> clokep: well theres nothing much :/
02:10:19 <Nakp> it seems theres a hidden attribute not listed here https://developer.mozilla.org/en/XUL/Attribute
02:10:34 <clokep> Nakp: Yeah, flo might know more.
02:10:42 <Nakp> i dont think just setting this to true would enable the themes :/ https://developer.mozilla.org/en/XUL/Attribute/lightweightthemes
02:11:27 <Nakp> wheres flo when you need it ¬¬
02:11:31 <clokep> Yeah, I saw that.
02:11:31 <Nakp> wheres he from?
02:11:35 <clokep> Haha. France.
02:11:36 <Nakp> or she xD
02:11:38 <clokep> Kind of middle of the night there.
02:12:04 <Nakp> hmmm im talking to a spanish guy and its 4am there
02:12:13 <Nakp> spaniard*
02:12:13 <Nakp> x'D
02:19:21 <Nakp> i would like to know from which project is this https://raw.github.com/gist/836087/d06ccb6d9d4e684a472bc6936924b7ab3220e200/dom_inspector_with_persona.diff
02:19:37 <Nakp> but they just add lightweightthemes="true" ¬¬
02:19:57 * Nakp wants to learn xul in a near future T_T
02:20:55 * clokep is on the phone, one second.
02:32:11 <clokep> Nakp: Seems like it's a way to make DOM Inspector into persona theming.
02:41:20 <Nakp> hmm
02:41:29 <Nakp> sorry i was.. errh... somewhere x'D
02:41:30 <Nakp> hahaha
02:44:17 <clokep> I think something similar would need to be done throughout our UI though.
02:46:44 <Nakp> yeah i think
02:46:55 <Nakp> i hope somebody finds a way to do it soon xD
02:47:36 <clokep> Wel you said you want to learn XUL...;)
02:48:12 <clokep> We do have a bug on it: bug 615
02:48:14 <clokep> Kind of
02:48:15 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=615 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, The conversation window should be easily customizable (personas)
02:49:53 <Nakp> lol xD
03:08:46 <clokep> Bed time for me. If you can sign on earlier (or stay on later) flo should be on at some point. :)
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08:52:38 <flo> hmm, so a bug that hasn't been confirmed can't go from RESOLVED WFM to NEW/REOPENED, I need to set it back to UNCONFIRMED :(
08:53:34 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org cleared the Resolution 'WORKSFORME' from bug 875.
08:53:36 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=875 cri, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Unable to register to multiple Twitter account : 'username incorrect'
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09:14:03 <flo> would it cause a problem to just not accept any cookie?
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09:18:10 <Mic> Nakp, in case you read the logs: go and check bug 615, I added information on lightweight themes/backgrounds/personas (whichever of these names is the official one by now;) there. It might help you to get started.
09:18:13 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=615 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, The conversation window should be easily customizable (personas)
09:20:48 <flo> disabling cookies fixes bug 875 for me
09:20:50 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=875 cri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Unable to register to multiple Twitter account : 'username incorrect'
09:29:10 <Mic> Does it break anything else?
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09:29:30 <Mic> Or is there an obvious need for having a Twitter session cookie sitting around?
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09:31:13 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org added attachment 827 to bug 875.
09:31:15 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=875 cri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Unable to register to multiple Twitter account : 'username incorrect'
09:32:15 <flo> Mic: the solutions are either to disable all cookies (the patch I attached. It could break some thing else, but nothing that I'm aware of currently) or to delete all cookies for the .twitter.com domain after the OAuth process is done.
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09:51:19 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 826 on bug 894.
09:51:21 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=894 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Default ICQ settings are wrong
09:54:10 <Mic> I'm not sure if this is important but I have different settings from the one mentioned in comment 3 there and it works anyways
09:55:31 <flo> what do you have?
09:55:42 <Mic> slogin.icq.com, no port specified (?!), "Don't use encryption", clientLogin: unticked
09:56:13 <flo> that's what comment 3 says
09:56:32 <flo> use encryption with clientLogin, or do not use encryption, in which case either with or without clientLogin works
09:56:38 <Mic> No, not in combination with the slogin-server
09:57:12 <flo> ah, you mean slogin or login work the same?
09:58:20 <Mic> Ohh .. the port is there by the way. It's only cut off because the pane is too wide .. d'oh.
09:58:24 <Mic> I'm going to check
09:59:05 <Mic> Yes, it seems to work with both login and slogin if you have encryption disabled
09:59:20 <aleth> Hi :) A possible idea for making IRC participant lists more useful when they get too long - (optional) sort by "Idle for" time? Would require getting everyone's whois though, and I am not even sure all participants provide this info.
10:00:33 <Mic> clokep's setting work fine by the way :)
10:00:55 <aleth> Another, simpler option: only colour the nicks which have been active in the present conversation, and sort those to the top
10:01:07 <aleth> (and/or)
10:02:57 <flo> hmm, we could put those who have talked "recently" (= in the current conversation? in the non-context messages of the current conversation? In the last hour?) in a separate list at the top, and grey out all the others except when hovered
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10:05:16 <aleth> How to define "recently" - just in the non-context messages is probably not enough, if you hide the conv a lot. So time-based sounds better
10:07:31 <Mad_Maks> aleth i would really like if the active one only would have a collor and the inactive are greyed
10:10:00 <Mad_Maks> is it not possible to set the ones who have a awaymessage to grey?
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10:11:25 <Mad_Maks> or people who are idle for (for example) 30min
10:13:01 <clokep> Mic: I assume we wanted encryption by default. :)
10:13:20 <flo> clokep: can we register the /say command in the commands service so that it has a help message, but then just throw an exception if some code ever attempts to execute it?
10:14:11 <clokep> Yes, I had thought of that, but it seemed kind of like a hack.
10:14:33 <flo> clokep: any feeling about disabling the cookies for the whole application? (the other solution is to look for .twitter.com cookies at the end (or beginning?) or the authentication and clear them)
10:16:37 <clokep> flo: I'd prefer not to in case an extension wishes to store a login cookie or something. Is it much more difficult to clear just *.twitter.com cookies?
10:17:12 <flo> probably ~10 lines of code
10:17:37 <Mad_Maks> why are there searchengines packed with instantbird?
10:18:34 <clokep> flo: Just disable them all then (it's just a pref change I assume), if it's an issue we can add code for Twitter (just leave a comment saying why!)
10:19:31 <flo> clokep: https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/attachment.cgi?id=827&action=edit
10:20:48 <flo> clokep: my first idea was to clear just the one cookie that is causing the issue, but its name isn't specified anyway, so I suspect it could change with any redesign of the twitter oauth page, without notice :-|
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10:21:04 <flo> Mad_Maks: why not?
10:21:16 <SolusUmbra> Hi, i'm having alittle bit of trouble with the new messanger
10:21:29 <SolusUmbra> hope someone here can help
10:21:47 <Mad_Maks> flo; i don't see where to use them
10:22:01 <flo> SolusUmbra: Hello. We can't help until you explain what your problem is ;).
10:22:16 <flo> Mad_Maks: they are usable from the context menu inside conversations
10:22:24 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com granted review for attachment 827 on bug 875.
10:22:26 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=875 cri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Unable to register to multiple Twitter account : 'username incorrect'
10:22:29 <flo> it's often useful to search for the meaning of a selected word
10:22:35 <SolusUmbra> well i installed it and put my accounts in, it says they are connected but they arent showing up on the list
10:22:48 <flo> clokep: thanks
10:24:55 <Mad_Maks> flo; ok that is usefull but i don't see  that option in a conversation?
10:25:23 <flo> Mad_Maks: select something, and open the context menu
10:25:38 <clokep> Bah sorry for that extra hunk in there flo. :(
10:25:44 <SolusUmbra> also i was wondering if there was a way to set the different messanger with different setting like away or offine
10:26:07 <Mad_Maks> flo; ah i see it, thanks. sorry
10:26:13 <Mad_Maks> nice
10:27:02 <flo> clokep: so what's the behavior of your new patch for "/ <message"?
10:27:27 <clokep> By the way: upstreaming Sametime stuff @ http://developer.pidgin.im/ticket/14608 (if people are curious)...I should post that in the bug...
10:27:37 <SolusUmbra> got the list figured out now down to the last question
10:27:39 <clokep> flo: Is that "/ "?
10:28:00 <flo> well, isn't / supposed to be a shorthand for /say?
10:28:08 <flo> (or did I miss a part of the discussion?)
10:28:27 <clokep> SolusUmbra: You can change yourself to Unavailable / offline using the green circle at the top of the UI.
10:28:52 <clokep> My patch rejects "/" or "/ ", I forget what it does with "/ foo"
10:29:04 <SolusUmbra> but can u change it for each one?
10:29:27 <flo> clokep: I think it just sends it with the /
10:29:33 <clokep> SolusUmbra: No, an add-on could probably do it.
10:29:44 <SolusUmbra> hmm ok 
10:29:50 <clokep> I must have missed that part of the discussion flo. :-/
10:29:57 <flo> SolusUmbra: it would be nice if you could explain why you want this :)
10:30:36 <SolusUmbra> lol i have a person on my messanger that i dont like to talk to sometimes because the type my fingers off and spam me y im afk
10:30:41 <flo> clokep: well, I don't have a strong desire for / (bug lewellyn seemed to), but if we don't handle it when there's a message, there's no reason to not send it when there's just "/" or "/ "
10:31:01 <flo> SolusUmbra: maybe you just want to disconnect that account then?
10:31:14 <SolusUmbra> i have other person i talk to on it
10:31:47 <clokep> flo: I have a fix, just changing the regexp.
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10:32:11 <flo> clokep: and the aMsg.slice(5) too I assume? ;)
10:32:23 <clokep> Yes.
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10:33:03 <flo> are you attaching it? (I don't want to mid-hair by putting r- on the previous attachment for that :-D)
10:33:19 <SolusUmbra> :( cant find any add-ons
10:33:36 <flo> SolusUmbra: would you like to just ignore that person?
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10:33:55 <clokep> flo: You can minus. Will not mid-air me. Trying it out.
10:33:56 <SolusUmbra> i need to say im offine to them or they will spam me
10:33:58 <flo> or do you need that person to not know you are online?
10:34:23 <flo> how does it matter that they "spam you" if it doesn't appear on your screen?
10:34:46 <SolusUmbra> it does show on my screen
10:35:48 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org denied review for attachment 825 on bug 1020.
10:35:50 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1020 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, IRC sends unrecognized commands to active conversation
10:37:40 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com added attachment 828 to bug 1020.
10:37:41 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 828 on bug 1020.
10:38:18 <clokep> Making good progress on 1.1 wanted stuff. :)
10:38:32 <SolusUmbra> so am i out of luck for the settings part?
10:38:47 <clokep> flo: For help for /say I'd prefer it in a follow up.
10:38:53 <clokep> It's unrelated.
10:39:07 <flo> SolusUmbra: does telling that person that you would rather not have them talk to you when you are marked unavailable work?
10:39:16 <flo> clokep: I agree!
10:39:21 <SolusUmbra> sadly not
10:39:31 <flo> it's totally unrelated, trivial, and doesn't need to be handled for 1.1
10:39:34 <SolusUmbra> thats when they start spamming
10:39:57 <flo> don't they stop if you just don't reply?
10:40:14 <SolusUmbra> lol no
10:41:54 <flo> have you actually tried?
10:42:06 <SolusUmbra> yes
10:42:09 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1036 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
10:42:10 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1036 tri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, /say does not have help information
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10:42:18 <flo> people who continue a behavior when they are *consistently* ignored are very rare ;)
10:42:34 <SolusUmbra> lol glad of that
10:42:49 <SolusUmbra> >_< i couldnt handle 2 of them
10:43:22 <flo> if one out of ten attempts you reply "oh please stop", then you are giving them a strong encouragement to continue
10:44:43 <clokep> Ah the psychological side of #instantbird has come out. ;) (I agree though.)
10:44:58 <SolusUmbra> i end up loging out of my messanger total because its messing up what im working on
10:45:32 <flo> we are working on ways to prevent unwanted interruptions
10:46:11 <SolusUmbra> lol i just installed this one this morning so i'm not sure how it will work 
10:46:26 <SolusUmbra> i just dont want to come back to my screen and see ?
10:46:26 <SolusUmbra> ?
10:46:27 <SolusUmbra> ?
10:46:28 <SolusUmbra> ?
10:46:28 <SolusUmbra> ?
10:46:46 <SolusUmbra> that is the spam i get lol
10:46:51 <flo> I would rather not see that here
10:47:58 <flo> by the way, if you are dealing with someone with obviously abusive behavior, it may be useful to keep a record of the behavior (while avoiding the nuisance by ensuring it doesn't cause sounds/popups/...)
10:49:05 <SolusUmbra> well i better get off i got to get ready to leave lol
10:49:28 <SolusUmbra> everyone have a good day
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10:50:13 <flo> hmm, someday we need to handle that case when twitter keeps giving "Error 401 - Unauthorized" just after receiving the timelines
10:51:19 <flo> I've never seen it outside of my debug build, so I always assumed some of my tests broke something on the test profile and it didn't matter, but it would be nice to figure it out
10:59:23 <clokep> Ah, twitter again?! :(
10:59:43 * clokep needs to go, bye!
10:59:45 <flo> apparently it's when we have an invalid oauth token stored in the preferences
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11:00:52 <flo> so I guess it could happen: 1. because I was tinkering with the twitter code recently. 2. Because of the tests I did with bug 875.
11:00:55 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=875 cri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Unable to register to multiple Twitter account : 'username incorrect'
11:01:18 <flo> but it could also happen if a user cancels the token later from the twitter website
11:01:34 <flo> I think we should catch that error and restart the oauth process
11:02:33 <flo> it may also happen if we start using direct messages, because the token requested before the twitter made some changes to the auth process didn't grant rights for DMs
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11:06:19 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 828 on bug 1020.
11:06:21 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1020 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, IRC sends unrecognized commands to active conversation
11:06:50 <flo> /away
11:06:50 <flo>  
11:06:53 <flo> oops
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11:11:10 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/16877232760e - Patrick Cloke - Bug 1020 - IRC sends unrecognized commands to active conversation, r=fqueze.
11:11:11 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/d0e96467b965 - Patrick Cloke - Bug 894 - Default ICQ settings are wrong, r=fqueze.
11:11:12 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/1f9ddea970ac - Florian Quèze - Bug 875 - Unable to OAuth authenticate multiple Twitter account in a row (disable cookies to fix this), r=clokep.
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11:45:46 <clokep_work> flo: That makes sense, could cause issues like what bug 928 is causing though as we're now asking the user to type in their username on an account that is already set up. :-/
11:45:48 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=928 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Simplify twitter account creation
11:47:57 <clokep_work> How does hg.mozilla.org have links to the bugs in their check-in messages, is that something we can do?
11:50:43 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 1020 to FIXED.
11:50:46 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1020 nor, --, 1.1a1, clokep, RESO FIXED, IRC sends unrecognized commands to active conversation
11:52:04 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 875 to FIXED.
11:52:06 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=875 cri, --, 1.1a1, florian, RESO FIXED, Unable to register to multiple Twitter account : 'username incorrect'
11:55:56 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 894 to FIXED.
11:55:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=894 nor, --, 1.1a1, clokep, RESO FIXED, Default ICQ settings are wrong
12:00:54 <FeuerFliege> stupid German language.
12:00:59 <FeuerFliege>  Instantbird supports many IM protocols and the native clients of each had decided to use a different level of politeness and so the localization files for libpurple are a total mix of formal and informal German.
12:01:25 <FeuerFliege> maybe we should offer two German language Packs ^^
12:01:27 <clokep_work> :(
12:01:57 <clokep_work> We'd need to retranslate all of the libpurple stuff, right?
12:02:12 <clokep_work> I mean you can retranslate parts of it anyway to make it better. :)
12:03:25 <flo> clokep_work: I think they hacked a bit the hg template used to display hgweb
12:03:43 <flo> it's probably something we could do to, if someone (ideally Even) had the motivation to look at it
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12:05:52 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 
12:06:49 <clokep_work> Alright, I can file a bug on it, I guess. ;)
12:07:01 <clokep_work> Do we want to leave bug 684 open?
12:07:04 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=684 enh, --, ---, florian, ASSI, Offer a way to manager the list of followed accounts on twitter
12:07:11 <clokep_work> I'd say we should file a different one for "Twitter on the buddy list"
12:07:14 <FeuerFliege> clokep_work: I started to clear up the files, because I think it is quite confusing if e.g. a button uses informal German but the tooltip formal German.
12:08:43 <clokep_work> FeuerFliege: Yeah, that's a bit strange. Luckily we don't have that issue in English. ;) Well, at least not as part of the actual grammar like it is in German (I believe).
12:13:16 <flo> I don't Nakp has nominated his add-on for review. He needs to go in "developer tools", then click on "Change Status" and on "Nominate for Public".
12:14:08 <flo> *don't think
12:17:08 <clokep_work> Will let him know if he comes back. :)
12:17:11 <flo> clokep_work: hmm, doesn't libpurple have clientLogin enabled even for AIM?
12:17:53 <clokep_work> I do not believe so. At least not when I checked our source.
12:18:09 <clokep_work> OSCAR_DEFAULT_CLIENTLOGIN or whatever was FALSE and that was used as the default for the preference.
12:18:17 <clokep_work> I didn't check in Pidgin though (I don't have it installed anymore.)
12:18:18 <flo> well, our source is already patched ;)
12:18:24 <clokep_work> Ah, is it?
12:18:28 <clokep_work> I didn't know that. :(
12:18:30 <flo> we need to lxr it too :)
12:19:24 <flo> clokep_work: we already had http://pastebin.instantbird.com/955
12:19:48 <flo> so from a Pidgin point of view, your patch just disables clientLogin for AIM
12:20:08 <clokep_work> Which is probably unnecessary and could probably be backed out and just enable clientLogin by default for both.
12:20:52 <clokep_work> Darn and I had gotten something checked in on my first try. ;)
12:22:41 <flo> well, AOL with clientLogin has been very unreliable
12:23:12 <clokep_work> Oh OK.
12:23:52 <flo> hmm, or it work with the Pidgin key but no longer the Adium and libpurple keys, or something like that
12:23:53 <Mic> FeuerFliege: where was this quote taken from (the formal/informal one)
12:27:15 <clokep_work> You can file bugs against l10n now too! ;)
12:33:15 <instantbot> New Websites - hg.instantbird.org (Mercurial/hgweb) bug 1037 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
12:33:17 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1037 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Link "bug xxx" to bugzilla in hgweb
12:37:49 * flo is looking for a personas to try on Firefox
12:38:16 <flo> (to see if I can manage to keep one for more than an hour without being annoyed by the decreased readability of the UI)
12:38:34 <flo> someone should make an Instantbird one (for Firefox)
12:40:39 * flo tries http://www.getpersonas.com/fr/persona/262107
12:41:07 * clokep_work dislikes the idea of personas. ;)
12:41:13 <clokep_work> I like all my stuff to look like the OS.
12:41:32 <flo> I feel the same way.
12:41:51 <clokep_work> Yeah, don't go all Songbird on me here. ;)
12:41:57 <flo> but I'm just trying to see how it looks/works, so that I can understand the thing people are talking about if we ever need to implement that
12:42:15 <clokep_work> Yeah, I gotcha.
12:42:23 <flo> it's pretty obvious that the bottom rounded corners of the OS X tab look ugly when made transparent
12:42:31 <clokep_work> Probably be more useful for us on the buddy list, although the conversation window does have some areas to style.
12:42:41 <flo> and removing the border between the chrome and the content wasn't such a great idea
12:42:44 <FeuerFliege> flo: there are some nice personas, too. I have used a monochrome persona when the fx4-nightly got too much aero glass.
12:43:23 <flo> I think it could be nice if we had a persona per tab group
12:43:42 <flo> at least it would have a purpose: know if you are in your work or your "procrastinate" tab group
12:50:08 <FeuerFliege> Mic: mostly Siezen (formal) and Imperativ (informal) 
12:50:48 <flo> I can now see the whole https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=sw%3A1.1 list without scrolling (the page still has a scrollbar though)
12:51:41 <Mic> FeuerFliege: " Instantbird supports many IM protocols and the native clients of each had decided to use a different level of politeness and so the localization files for libpurple are a total mix of formal and informal German."
12:52:02 <Mic> That sounded like it was a quote from someone reviewing Instantbird
12:52:36 <Mic> Or was that just you mentioning the problem?
12:52:42 <flo> FeuerFliege: I'm not sure it's really the native clients. It may also just be that the various libpurple plugins haven't been worked on consistently ; probably created at different times by different people
12:54:04 <FeuerFliege> Mic: That was just me moaning about my problems with the localization
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13:01:03 <instantbot> New purplexpcom - Twitter bug 1038 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
13:01:05 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1038 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add followed people to the participants timeline
13:01:25 <flo> oh, I convinced you? :-)
13:02:46 <instantbot> New purplexpcom - Twitter bug 1039 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
13:02:50 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1039 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add followed people to the buddy list
13:03:47 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 684 to FIXED.
13:03:49 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=684 enh, --, 1.1a1, florian, RESO FIXED, Offer a way to manager the list of followed accounts on twitter
13:04:00 <clokep_work> Yes. ;) I read the bug again and figured it was awfully vague and almost a meta bug. ;)
13:04:02 <flo> :)
13:04:52 <flo> yeah, and it was already fixed, as the objective was rather clear (in the summary) :)
13:06:11 <clokep_work> Yup! :)
13:06:14 <flo> and now we are replacing a "nice-to-have" bug per 2? ;)
13:06:33 <clokep_work> Hah, are those both still "nice-to-have"?
13:06:41 <clokep_work> We should fix more wanted / blocker bugs and less nice-to-have bugs. :-D
13:07:18 <flo> filling in the participants list is useful for completion, which is "wanted"
13:07:39 <flo> and putting them in the buddy list is useful for direct messages, which I think are "nice-to-have"
13:07:42 <-- FeuerFliege has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1a1pre)
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13:09:16 <clokep_work> But that involves implementing direct messaging too! :P
13:10:01 <flo> it's on https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Roadmap:1.1
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13:11:08 <clokep_work> Ah, would you look at that...
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13:13:41 <flo> I wonder if there's a way to make twitter send us the timezone value in the good locale
13:14:27 <clokep_work> "good locale"?
13:14:46 <flo> the user's locale
13:15:00 <flo> everything else in that tooltip will be either translated or in the author's language
13:15:09 <flo> the timezone seems to be always in english
13:15:25 <FeuerFliege> flo: The “timezone“ is just the name of a City, right?
13:15:36 <flo> FeuerFliege: that's "location"
13:15:50 <flo> the timezone is for example: "Pacific time (US & Canada)"
13:16:05 <FeuerFliege> no I don’t think so, but I’ll check.
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13:16:09 <flo> well, sometimes it's the city too
13:16:13 <flo> I've just seen "Madrid"
13:16:53 <FeuerFliege> Ah, ok. Because I always see ‚Berlin‘ as timezone
13:17:07 <flo> you probably have German friends then ;)
13:17:25 <FeuerFliege> mostly
13:17:26 <flo> I've just seen someone with: "Location: Frankfurt, Germany" and "Timezone: Berlin"
13:18:13 <clokep_work> Ah, yeah. That's kind of sucky. I thought it was "important" information cause it shows whether the person might be awake or not.
13:18:17 <flo> so it seems to be either the timezone (when the country has several timezones, like the US), or the city (the capital?)
13:18:43 <flo> clokep_work: it's important! If it wasn't I would just want to remove it rather than localize it ;)
13:18:44 <clokep_work> There's a lot of timezones worldwide. :( A lot of programs let you pick cities in the US too.
13:19:06 <clokep_work> I know my Thunderbird timezone (Lightning?) is set as America/New_York I think.
13:19:13 <flo> well, we could hope there would be only ~24, but if people put there a City, that makes many more :-/
13:19:21 <clokep_work> There isn't.
13:19:46 <clokep_work> The continental US has 4, but random cities, counties, etc. don't observe Daylight savings, so there's actually a bit more than that.
13:20:07 <flo> aaah, the daylight saving mess :(
13:20:51 <clokep_work> flo: There's http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/calendar/timezones/ I'm not sure if that's useful to us at all.
13:21:24 <flo> so with a persona, the only difference between an active window and an inactive one is that the text in the title bar is a bit greyed out when it's inactive? Pff :(
13:21:46 <clokep_work> Note that the timezone names are at http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/calendar/locales/en-US/chrome/calendar/timezones.properties
13:22:18 <FeuerFliege> timezones should always be UTC+/-[some hours]
13:22:51 <clokep_work> FeuerFliege: Twitter returns the name, not the actual timezone offset.
13:22:54 <flo> FeuerFliege: I think we also receive the offset in seconds
13:23:01 <clokep_work> Oh, do we receive the offset too?
13:23:12 <clokep_work> (Note that there can be half hour offsets, etc. it's not integer hours)
13:23:46 <FeuerFliege> in settings you see ‚(GMT+1) Prague‘ for example
13:24:38 <flo> https://dev.twitter.com/docs/api/1/get/users/lookup see: "utc_offset": -28800,
13:25:01 <clokep_work> Ah, we could probably take that and make it into a timezone if we have the right functions. :-X
13:25:15 <flo> so if we really wanted, we could replace the "timezone" field by a "Local time: <...> [tomorrow/yesterday]"
13:25:29 <flo> but I think (as a user who can read English) I prefer seeing the timezone :-]
13:26:23 <FeuerFliege> flo: the name of the Timezone or UTC+foo
13:26:57 <flo> UTC+foo is unreadable, it's for computers, not humans ;)
13:27:14 <flo> I wrote time bubbles because I don't want to compare timestamps ;)
13:27:20 <clokep_work> A lot of people don't actually know EST is UTC-5 for example.
13:27:22 <flo> so I'm not going to do math to even read them :)
13:27:38 <FeuerFliege> because twitter doesn’t let us select the name of our timezone, but only Cities.
13:27:53 <flo> is there a fixed list to pick from?
13:28:04 <FeuerFliege> Yes
13:28:14 <flo> hmm, maybe we can make it localizable then
13:29:33 <flo> bah, even on their website it's not localized :-S
13:30:09 <clokep_work> flo: Calendar code has a way to take get it I think...(take an offset and get a real timezone out of it).
13:30:16 <clokep_work> But it'd be abunch of code to fix a seemingly simple issue. :-/
13:30:31 <clokep_work> http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/calendar/base/public/calITimezone.idl and http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/calendar/base/public/calITimezoneProvider.idl and other stuff maybe.
13:30:33 * clokep_work is now known as clokep_away
13:30:37 <flo> yeah, I think we should just forget it :)
13:31:02 <FeuerFliege> The city names are not even localized within twitter. If I select German as language for twitter the list still shows me Prague (instead of Prag)
13:31:41 <FeuerFliege> would it be possible to show both the name and the UTC-offset?
13:31:45 <flo> these are the possible values on twitter: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/956
13:33:34 <FeuerFliege> IMHO we should provide it the same way: (GMT+XX:XX) foobar.
13:34:24 <FeuerFliege> because I haven’t heard of some cities on this list and even less I know in which timezone they are.
13:35:59 <FeuerFliege> And some of the city names aren’t unique
13:37:55 <flo> displaying the local time (as I suggested) would also help for the "I've no idea in which part of the world that city is" issue
13:38:27 <FeuerFliege> flo: that will do it too
13:51:27 <clokep_away> Yes, someone file a bug on it? :)
13:51:46 <flo> yes, so that we can archive the discussion and wontfix it ;)
13:52:16 <flo> well, except if someone really has nothing better to do than fixing that :
13:52:16 <flo> )
13:52:19 <clokep_away> Haha. Well I meant the local time / or showing the offset.
13:52:32 * clokep_away is not going to fix it, but we should still show it as a bug.
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14:08:51 <clokep_away> Hey ecaron Did you see bug 1035, I think it'd interest you.
14:08:54 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1035 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Update the Instantbird icon to signify an instant messenger
14:09:48 <flo> if we get a "marketing team", I think it should attempt to get us a wikipedia page back, and to link to it from all the relevant pages ;).
14:10:10 <ecaron> Very interesting bug...
14:11:18 <ecaron> How active is verlkymx in the community?
14:11:43 <ecaron> Also, how public/private should we be in contemplating the new symbol?
14:11:47 <clokep_away> ecaron: First bug I've seen him file AFAIK.
14:11:58 <flo> and helping to improve http://www.mozilla.org/projects/mozilla-based.html so that it gives more importance to applications actually based on the XUL platform would be nice too. (That page is 2 clicks from the www.mozilla.org home page and brings us significant traffic... and could bring much more)
14:12:59 <flo> (I discussed that with the author of the current page, he agreed but doesn't have enough time to work on it in the near future)
14:14:06 <ecaron> flo: I imagine that page is a mess to keep "fair" without going crazy, plus it has a low ROI to Mozilla
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14:14:32 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 
14:15:04 <flo> ecaron: there are probably no more than 10 projects that are both active and based on the XUL platform (= with the extensibility that people love in Mozilla products)
14:15:36 <ecaron> Calling Acrobat Mozilla-Based is a bit of a stretch, right?
14:15:56 <flo> it probably uses parts of the JS engine or of NSS
14:16:40 <clokep_away> Same reason Pidgin was on there.
14:17:27 <ecaron> It is a very diverse list
14:17:28 <flo> I think the applications can in someway install mozilla add-ons should be at the top of the list
14:17:51 <flo> ecaron: yeah, for each item it would be nice to list which mozilla technology is used
14:18:34 <Mic> "15:57:41 - Your account is disconnected and you better go and reconnect it yourself." :(
14:18:51 * Mic thinks this could be the very next bug he'll be looking at.
14:18:53 <flo> Mic: nice system message ;)
14:19:15 <flo> Mic: if you can find *reliable* steps to reproduce, that would be awesome.
14:19:40 <Mic> uuh .. pinged + bold looks .. interesting.
14:19:57 <flo> ah?
14:19:59 <Mic> flo: don't *you* think?
14:19:59 <clokep_away> I think "interesting" deserves a screenshot?
14:20:14 <Mic> It's really really bold
14:20:24 <clokep_away> Ah OK.
14:20:29 <clokep_away> To be expected. ;)
14:20:44 <flo> it doesn't seem any more bold to me
14:20:45 <clokep_away> flo: Should we file a bug about updating that page?
14:21:01 <flo> in which bugzilla?
14:21:33 <Mic> http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/374/boldping.png
14:21:40 <flo> I think offering a diff could be a good start ;)
14:22:08 <clokep_away> flo: One of them? Both of them? :P
14:22:11 <ecaron> There's a typo in the variants for the Bubbles theme - must I submit a bug for it? It says "Grey - Ping" and should be "Grey - Pink"
14:22:17 <flo> I would be tempted to argue that all the applications that are not active and extensible should be removed and listed only on https://developer.mozilla.org/En/List_of_Mozilla-Based_Applications but I think the author likes that there are so many pretty pictures
14:22:25 <Mic> ecaron: that has a bug report already
14:22:44 * ecaron ashamed
14:22:46 <clokep_away> Someone should fix it though. ;)
14:23:09 <clokep_away> bug 874
14:23:12 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=874 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Misnamed variant of the Bubble theme
14:23:18 <ecaron> Mic: I will blame your discussion of ping-displays for making me remember, though
14:25:14 <FeuerFliege> uh? Since when is there a retweet-option in the context menu of a tweet?
14:25:21 <FeuerFliege> nice
14:25:42 <clokep_away> Like two days ago.
14:27:35 <Mic> Is it safe to assume that a user of a MUC could receive private messages as well?
14:28:02 <Mic> We could add a "Send private message" to the context menu of bubbles in MUCs then.
14:29:31 <FeuerFliege> /jion #labs
14:29:38 <FeuerFliege> ups
14:30:01 <Mic> "/jion is not a valid command. Type help to see a list of ..." ;)
14:30:11 <FeuerFliege> ja-haa!
14:30:13 <Mic> rather /help
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14:31:04 <Mic> http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/16877232760e#l2.10
14:31:13 <FeuerFliege> that stuff should not be sent to chat
14:31:54 <clokep_away> FeuerFliege: It was fixed as of 41 minutes ago. ;)
14:31:56 <FeuerFliege> Mic: does that mean this feature is going to be in the next nightly?
14:31:58 <FeuerFliege> ok
14:32:02 <Mic> Yes :)
14:32:18 * clokep_away wonders if we should just handle common misspellings. :-XX
14:32:34 <clokep_away> "/jion doesn't exist! Did you mean /join?" :P
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14:33:53 <clokep_away> So bug 874...what happens if someone is /using/ that variant and we rename it?
14:33:56 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=874 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Misnamed variant of the Bubble theme
14:34:24 <clokep_away> And I might take another look at bug 832, but I could use some pointers on it. :-/
14:34:27 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=832 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Differentiate commands that work only in MUCs for /help
14:34:41 <flo> clokep_away: that's the reason why I haven't fixed it right away
14:34:48 <flo> I didn't want to write the migration code
14:35:07 <clokep_away> flo: Ah, I see. We should have fixed it for 1.0 and said "Oh well, you were using a version < 1.0!" ;)
14:35:29 <flo> was that bug filed before 1.0?
14:35:46 <clokep_away> Uh probably not actually. :(
14:36:11 <clokep_away> No, found two days after the release.
14:37:57 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1040 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
14:37:57 * Mic stole an RFE :P
14:37:59 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1040 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Suggest correct command name for misspelled ones
14:38:49 <Mic> clokep, you see, you need to be quick to get your own 400 bugs filed :P
14:39:09 <Mic> (and I think it's rather 300 than 400 by the way;)
14:40:17 <flo> are you competing to get more filed?
14:40:36 <flo> I can suggest ideas ;)
14:40:47 <flo> are there bonus points if the bug ends up being a release blocker?
14:42:41 <Mic> Sure, and there's no points for RESOLVED INVALID/INCOMPLETE/WONTFIX bugs ;)
14:43:25 <clokep_away> Oh and bonus points for numbers we like too.
14:43:42 <clokep_away> nk bugs or 1024 or so. ;)
14:44:01 <flo> who's filing a bug to implement a counter for these points? ;)
14:44:08 <flo> (there's a risk it could be invalid though)
14:44:19 <flo> Mic: no point for dups either ;)
14:45:19 <clokep_away> Mic: I also thought of looking at edit distance. :)
14:47:49 <flo> if anybody wants to get the blocker bonus, here is one I have: the "more info for this update" links doesn't work.
14:48:16 <flo> we broke it when we enabled http handling for the oauth dialog
14:48:21 <clokep_away> :-(
14:48:52 <flo> and we didn't fix it at the time we fixed all the "Get more emoticons" links we have in the UI
14:49:53 <clokep_away> Is sthere a bug for that at least? To see what to do.
14:50:11 <flo> no bug on file. Hence the possible blocker bonus ;)
14:50:26 <flo> oh, or you mean for the "Get more emoticons" links when we fixed them?
14:50:31 <clokep_away> Yes. :)
14:50:38 <flo> the way we fixed that doesn't apply to the update dialogs
14:50:43 <clokep_away> Oh OK.
14:50:48 <flo> we'll have to find a better fix, and revert those hacks
14:50:55 <Mic> Could it be that the credits on the about dialog are broken?
14:51:25 <flo> uh, that's ugly :(
14:51:35 <flo> probably a missing flex attribute
14:51:53 <flo> that bug probably deserves a blocker bonus too ;)
14:52:36 <flo> I think a better fix could be to somehow extend that binding: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/toolkit/content/widgets/text.xml#286
14:52:50 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1041 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
14:52:52 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1041 blo, --, ---, nobody, NEW, "more info for this update" links don't work
14:53:09 <flo> or maybe to just patch it, if we decide it's ok to have broken links on Linux distribution packages? :-/
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14:53:30 <clokep_away> :(
14:53:43 <clokep_away> Yeah, Linux does some funky things. It'd be really nice to have a Ubuntu package btw.
14:53:51 <flo> the "somehow extend that binding" part isn't well defined ;)
14:54:20 <flo> to get it back yeah. And we need to hurry if we want to have it for 10.10 (or is it already too late for that?)
14:55:04 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1042 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
14:55:06 <instantbot> benediktp@ymail.com added attachment 829 to bug 1042.
14:55:07 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1042 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Credits in About-dialog only taking up a small fraction of the available space
14:55:11 <flo> I don't think linux distributions care much about the links in our update dialog though (so we should keep the current hacks in place and patch that file for our builds)
14:55:13 <clokep_away> 11.10? ;)
14:55:20 <flo> that could be an acceptable quick hack
14:55:30 <flo> yeah 11.10, it's probably a bit late for 10.10 :)
14:56:57 <flo> Mic: you are attributing to me typos I didn't make ;)
14:57:29 <Mic> What do you mean?
14:57:55 <Mic> Oh, i see
14:58:02 <Mic> Sorry :)
14:59:14 <clokep_away> We should update to the newer style about windows. :)
14:59:25 <Mic> Yes, the new look is great :)
14:59:33 <flo> that would remove the credits list though
14:59:50 <flo> Not sure how much people care about having their name listed there
15:00:13 <flo> I like the way the new dialog checks for updates though :)
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15:01:36 <clokep_away> Yes, it's nicely done. :)
15:03:33 <clokep_away> Btw do we need to add other people to the credits or like about:license (I'm thinking like...we include the meanwhile library now)
15:04:02 <flo> I think http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/layout/base/nsIStyleSheetService.idl#73 could be a way to fix these links all at once
15:04:07 <flo> (I mean, to extend the binding)
15:05:01 <flo> I don't think so. meanwhile is covered by one of the licenses already included in about:licence, right?
15:06:48 <clokep_away> GPL.
15:11:22 <clokep_away> (Also we could include a link to the website for contributors if we want to include that, I think that's what Mozilla does too.)
15:13:18 <Mic1> bye
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15:56:41 <instantbot> New Websites - addons.instantbird.org (Remora) bug 1043 filed by michal.stanke@mikk.cz.
15:56:43 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1043 nor, --, ---, raynaudquentin, UNCO, localized AMO
15:58:02 <clokep_away> Hmm...Thunderbird RESTful API experiment: https://bitbucket.org/dmose/tb-at-rest
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16:13:35 <flo> "Quit: Instantbird 0.3a1" in #maildev. Someone needs an update ;)
16:14:28 <flo> hmm, or maybe it's a linux distribution package? :-S
16:18:33 <clokep_away> Probably a Linux distro, yeah. :-/
16:20:14 <flo> maybe someday we will see there "Quit: Thunderbird 12" ;)
16:20:30 <clokep_away> Hah.
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23:03:35 <clokep> Hello!
23:04:54 <Mook_as> ehllo!
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