#instantbird log on 09 12 2011

All times are UTC.

00:00:26 <flo> clokep: bug 1027
00:00:27 <kaie> given that the hacker obviously targeted communications, not money, chat protocol connections are a target, too. but I don't know if any certs for such protocols were obtained
00:00:30 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1027 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Allow to turn off the "double click to reply to <someone>" feature
00:00:45 <flo> I thought you were saying that because of my comment in that bug less than 5 minutes before :)
00:01:03 <clokep> Awesomebar found it for me. :-D
00:01:51 <clokep> Well google's cert was one of the ones that had an issue, right? I believe GTalk uses the same one as Gmail.
00:03:03 <flo> current nightlies are based off Firefox 6.0.2
00:03:39 <aleth> (still thinking about words) Should the Contacts window still be titled Contacts window now it also has conversations in it? Especially as the contacts bit is titled 'Contacts' too
00:03:53 <flo> but obviously that doesn't help ensuring most users are safe
00:04:06 <flo> aleth: no :(
00:04:18 <clokep> It should probably just be titled "Instantbird".
00:04:49 <clokep> The question with releasing a security update is whether it's worth the work before we'd release 1.1 anyway.
00:05:15 <kaie> flo, what's the base branch for instantbird 1.0 ?
00:05:28 <kaie> you could consider an update that only updates NSS
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00:05:52 <clokep> Yes, of course. But it still needs to be created and distributed and updated to, etc.
00:05:59 <kaie> true
00:06:01 <flo> at this point, if we wanted a security update, we should fix the 4 blockers and then ship the code currently in the nightlies, and decide that's 1.1
00:06:04 <clokep> Instantbird 1.0 is Mozilla 4 I believe.
00:06:21 <flo> clokep: Mozilla 2.0 (= Firefox 4)
00:06:28 <kaie> ok
00:07:21 <kaie> if you don't do chemspill updates, then maybe the project I'm working on might be helpful for instantbird, too
00:07:42 <kaie> I made an addon, still experimental, to push CA removals without the need for a software update
00:07:56 <kaie> but still, users would have to install that ;)
00:08:19 <flo> well, in theory we can do chemspill updates. In practice, that's difficult :(.
00:08:32 <clokep> Ah, I read that blog post...didn't realize it was you.
00:09:08 <aleth> Well then given that change, why have a term for "hidden conversations"? Just have them be "Current conversations" that appear in the IB window. Just conversations.
00:09:12 <kaie> https://kuix.de/ca-knockout/ clokep I'm surprised you already saw that :)
00:09:30 <flo> kaie: I saw that already too. In #maildev
00:09:31 <clokep> aleth: But it's not all conversations.
00:09:38 <clokep> Yeah, I saw it in #maildev.
00:09:42 <kaie> ok
00:09:49 <clokep> But apparently didn't read who said it. ;)
00:11:06 <aleth> clokep: But you _could_ list all conversations there. Why not? Differentiate by shade of grey if need be. Also gives you unread indicators for the case that the conv window is minimised, as a side effect. 
00:11:43 <clokep> aleth: You could, but that's not the point. ;)
00:11:44 <aleth> If you click on one, it opens. If there's already a tab for it, activate it.
00:11:50 <clokep> You'll need to wait for Mook's add-on for that. :P
00:12:07 <clokep> Oh, flo: one thing not on the list...organization of the hidden conversations stuff?
00:12:07 <aleth> clokep: I'm not suggesting this would be better - just an idea :p
00:12:13 <clokep> By account or alphabetically or something.
00:12:47 <flo> alphabetically would be good enough for 1.1 I think
00:12:49 <aleth> clokep: I do think at the moment hidden conversations are a very useful halfway house, design wise
00:13:00 <clokep> Yes. :)
00:15:28 <aleth> clokep: In a sense having all conversations listed would be more like an OS taskbar... some entries are minimized, some are not, but all windows appear
00:16:09 <lewellyn> aleth: erm...
00:16:13 <aleth> On the other hand its unneccessary
00:16:25 <lewellyn> so you're suggesting always showing all my irc conversations along anything else?
00:16:37 <aleth> lewellyn: no
00:16:50 <lewellyn> they show up in hidden conversations now
00:17:12 <lewellyn> (which i keep wishing i could minimize
00:17:38 <clokep> I think there's a bug about that lewellyn. :)
00:17:39 <lewellyn> when my hidden conversations are up, i can't see my buddies :/
00:17:48 <aleth> lewellyn: the idea (not sure whether I am in favour btw) is to list all conversations in hidden conversations, hence removing the need for the "hidden" distinction
00:18:23 <lewellyn> aleth: i have 100 or so irc conversations. i don't necessarily want them merged with the half dozen or so non-irc conversations
00:18:33 <aleth> lewellyn: but that's a different issue
00:18:42 <aleth> that's organisation and sorting
00:18:59 <lewellyn> but they shouldn't be considered the "same thing" in my book *shrug*
00:19:03 <lewellyn> if i hid them, i want them hidden.
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00:26:21 <lewellyn> http://i.imgur.com/uJwm7.png shows why i find conversation management lacking btw. :/
00:27:30 <clokep> lewellyn: Bah why does Vertical Tabs look so funky for you? Do you have extra styles applied to it?
00:27:47 <lewellyn> yes
00:28:02 <lewellyn> otherwise it's impossible for my eye to track after being up too many hours :)
00:28:03 <clokep> Oh ok! :)
00:28:24 <lewellyn> i'm not kidding about the 100+ tabs open at any time, you know :)
00:39:49 <flo> lewellyn: you don't seem to be our "average user" ;)
00:40:01 <lewellyn> i never claimed to be.
00:40:15 <lewellyn> but making things "worse" for me means making them outright unusable :/
00:40:16 <flo> lewellyn: and the scrollbars in the Contacts window seem really strange. Probably some broken/outdated CSS in a skin.
00:40:27 <lewellyn> yeah. i've learnt to deal with the skin :/
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00:42:41 <clokep> Yeah, the scrollbars in the conversation window are broken too. :P They work on the default theme though.
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00:56:32 <lewellyn> yeah. the theme's a bit buggy. but i haven't had the time to try writing my own yet.
00:57:05 <lewellyn> it's one of those "yeah, someday" things. of course, i guess i could try upping the install.rdf of the one i used to like
00:57:40 <lewellyn> this is LittleChat btw
00:59:37 <lewellyn> oh. i guess it HAS been broken a long time (the theme i liked previously)
00:59:40 <lewellyn> Works with:
00:59:40 <lewellyn> Instantbird: 0.2b2 – 0.3a1pre
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01:18:51 <clokep> Can't we get adorable icons like this for our nightly builds? :P http://ccgi.standard8.plus.com/blog/archives/541
01:34:30 <flo> maybe? ;)
01:37:57 <flo> Good night!
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02:31:20 <kaie> flo, FYI when you wake up, the automatic update works
02:47:44 <kaie> and regarding the question, whether that dialog should be overlayed and hidden - we must ensure the CA import dialog remains functional as is - we cannot allow web sites to silently install CA certs if this addon is installed
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03:18:29 <kaie> just in case you want to test automatic update yourself. install http://kuix.de/ca-knockout/ca-knockout-0.2.8.signed.xpi - and then check for updates, will go to 0.2.9
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06:30:51 <BBasil> How to run Instantbird_1.0 minimized in the tray icon? // Как запускать Instantbird_1.0 свернутым в значек в трее ?
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08:02:40 <flo> kaie: sure, if the dialog is hidden, it should be only for certs that the add-on is installing, not certs from random websites
08:07:16 <BBasil> sorry ???
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08:10:44 <flo> BBasil: I'm replying to something kaie said several hours ago ;)
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08:11:47 <BBasil> :-)))
08:12:08 <BBasil> :-(((
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08:21:51 <flo> BBasil: I'm not sure if what you are asking about the tray icon. If you are asking how Instantbird can be started minimized, it's currently not implemented (would be easy to do in an add-on).
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09:11:08 <BBasil> flo: Thank you. 
09:11:08 <BBasil> A pity ...
09:12:50 <lewellyn> BBasil: if you're asking if you can close/minimize the contacts window and have it go to the tray, that is already there.
09:13:53 <BBasil> I'll wait for add-on :-)
09:15:48 <BBasil> Alter interesuet Start with OS (CrunchBang + E17)
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10:30:03 <flo> I wonder if we should attempt to detect/guess the entities on tweets received from the search request
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10:36:22 <clokep> Do they not have entities in them? Is there no way to turn it on?
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10:38:52 <flo> clokep: no :(
10:39:23 <flo> "The Search API does not support entities." https://dev.twitter.com/docs/tweet-entities
10:39:41 <clokep> flo: https://dev.twitter.com/discussions/1513
10:40:19 <clokep> Wait, but we're using the streaming API for searches also?
10:40:50 <flo> "The entities node will only appear when the Tweet contains a URL." "Other tweet entities like user_mentions and hashtags will not be included at this stage."
10:40:52 <flo> pfff :(
10:41:20 <flo> clokep: we use the search API here: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/purplexpcom/src/twitter.js#413
10:41:33 <flo> and already have to do some fix up on its results: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/purplexpcom/src/twitter.js#442
10:43:02 <clokep> Right. :-/
10:43:13 <clokep> Would be nice if they unified their API. :(
10:45:29 <flo> yeah...
10:46:23 <clokep> Well finding hashtags and user mentions probably wouldn't be super difficult, and we have code for links already...
10:46:31 <clokep> But obviously they'd have the shortened link.
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10:57:20 <flo> https://github.com/mzsanford/twitter-text-java/blob/master/src/com/twitter/Regex.java can be a source of inspiration for regexps to use I guess
10:57:46 <flo> we don't really need to extract the links. It will be done at display-time anyway
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11:03:15 <flo> /awat
11:03:18 <flo> grr
11:03:23 <kaie> flo, yes, I'm just not sure how to do that reliably
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11:51:17 <clokep_work> Well that's good flo, since it seems that finding links would be the worst part while hashtags / replies wouldn't be as bad. :)
12:21:54 <clokep_work> Hmm...so we can probably just look for retweeted_status and use that instead for the necessary fields...
12:22:44 <clokep_work> (As in you could sho wit as the original person that said it, etc. and not who RTed it, if you wanted to.)
12:27:44 <flo> we still need to show why it appears in the timeline
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15:23:46 <clokep_work> Good find Mic. :)
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15:24:21 <Mic> Even better: http://oembed.com :)
15:24:28 <Mic> For the content preview thing at least :)
15:27:38 <Mic> In short: that's an API supported by some major websites that identifies links that you throw at it and returns information like the path to an image, it's dimensions and author, .. 
15:29:49 <clokep_work> You read PMO. ;)
15:30:26 <Mic> Yes, that's where I saw it :)
15:32:40 <Mic> Is the findbar layout also broken for you?
15:33:29 <Mic> The icons and their labels are displayed vertically next to each other for me
15:33:34 <Mic> I think we had that once before
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16:20:03 <Mic> The findbar thing is bug 862.
16:20:06 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=862 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Findbar on conversations has a bad size on Windows Vista
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16:58:50 <clokep_work> I thought I saw something about them fixing the findbar recently. I'm not sure if it's broken for me though Mic.
16:59:09 <clokep_work> But yes, we had it a while ago as you found...
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17:22:07 <Mic> Do you remember a bug on BMO about that?
17:22:13 <Mic> I haven't found one yet..
17:27:01 <clokep_work> I remembered seing one but I don't think it was actually related. :-/ 
17:33:40 <clokep_work> Ah OK so https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=627059 is what I remembered, but it was a Fennec bug.
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17:46:11 <flo> I hope our findbar patch isn't responsible for it :-S
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17:59:12 <SilverSurfer> Hi How would I go about securing a nick on moznet ?  Thanks to all in advance for their reply ...
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18:11:55 <DGMurdockIII> moznet?
18:17:14 <SilverSurfer> Hi, DGMurdockIII thanks for replying ... yes, I would like to register & secure a nick on irc.mozilla.org 
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18:17:37 <DGMurdockIII> ok
18:17:41 <DGMurdockIII> just a sec
18:18:16 <Mook_as> I think you need to talk to nickserv directly, for now
18:18:30 <DGMurdockIII> 2(SilverSurfer2): On the Mozilla IRC server (and on some others) you can protect your nickname with a password. Type /query NickServ to open a conversation with the bot in charge of that service, then help to ask it how you can use it.
18:20:15 <SilverSurfer> DGMurdockIII: I tried that but there weren't any instructions that I could see to go about registering my nick ...
18:20:34 <Mook_as> /msg help nickserv
18:20:43 <Mook_as> /msg nickserv register blahblah
18:21:24 <SilverSurfer> Hi Mook_as, Thanks I'll try that ... :)
18:21:40 <DGMurdockIII> . dose this and it will give you instructions /query NickServ help
18:24:32 <clokep_work> The proper message I think is /msg nickserv help register ;)
18:25:41 <Mook_as> I assume help will lead you to help register ;)
18:26:55 <clokep_work> Well /msg help nickserv is asking the user with a nick of "help" about "nickserv", so my point was you want to ask "nickserv" about "help" :)
18:27:06 <clokep_work> (I know some IRC servers have "help" set up, but moznet does not I don't think.)
18:28:04 <Mook_as> oh, right, yeah, that was just me being stupid. bah!
18:28:29 <DGMurdockIII> https://wiki.mozilla.org/IRC#Password-protecting_your_nickname
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19:08:15 <SilverSurfer> DGMurdockIII, Mook_as, & clokep_work: Thanks fellas  for the assist, with it I succeeded.
19:09:04 <SilverSurfer> It was much appreciat'd. Thanks !
19:09:38 <clokep_work> SilverSurfer: You're welcome! I hope you're enjoying using Instantbird. :)
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19:10:40 <Mook_as> SilverSurfer: you might want to update your firefox, Mozilla stopped supporting it (and I don't think it's protected from the DigiNotar mess)
19:11:30 <SilverSurfer> Mook_as: Thanks. DigiNotar mess ?
19:12:10 <Mook_as> SilverSurfer: somebody managed to issue 500+ SSL certificates, including for google.com... so SSL connections may be unsafe.
19:12:49 <Mook_as> though I suspect in practice you're less likely to be in danger than, say, Iranians.
19:13:38 <SilverSurfer> clopek_work:  I am, thanks ... but one concern ... I noticed that pword is visible in prefs file ... in future instantbird releases could this be hidden ?
19:15:11 <SilverSurfer> Mook_as: Ok, thanks for the update ... I do intend to update soon ... just havn't gotten 'round to it yet ... :|
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19:19:00 <clokep_work> SilverSurfer: We do have a bug on it...bug 434 (although as a side note: most IM programs store your password in clear text in a file some where)
19:19:03 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=434 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Use toolkit password manager
19:19:21 <SilverSurfer> Hey guys, Do I need to keep the confirm email aftr registration's been completed ?
19:19:38 <clokep_work> You shouldn't need to.
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19:24:34 <clokep_work> You can CC yourself if oyu're interested in any progress, but it's something we want but haven't planned yet.
19:26:43 <SilverSurfer> clopek_work: K, thanks.
19:27:28 * flo thinks someone should edit https://wiki.mozilla.org/IRC Especially the "Getting_IRC_software" and "Project_Channels" sections
19:34:52 <clokep_work> Quick summary: SilverSurfer PMed me asking if deleting his account would then delete the password from the prefs.
19:35:13 <clokep_work> And I asked why he's so intent on not saving his password (public computer, shared, other reason) to which he responded he's on a shared computer.
19:35:27 <clokep_work> Although if you have different accounts it shouldn't matter. :)
19:35:41 <clokep_work> But yes, it would be nice to encrypt/not store the passwords.
19:36:44 <SilverSurfer> ... but wouldn't any1 with access 2 the computer b able 2 then access that prefs file ...
19:38:59 <clokep_work> Separate user's shouldn't be able to access each other's files, although an administrator/root/superuser could.
19:39:56 <flo> is that on linux?
19:40:25 <SilverSurfer> flo: no.
19:40:38 <aleth> SilverSurfer: if all else fails, you could stick your profile inside a truecrypt volume ;)
19:50:05 <clokep_work> SilverSurfer: Really it comes down to that it's something we want, but it's not currently supported, but we'd love for someone to implement it. ;)
19:52:10 <SilverSurfer> Ah, ok ... just thot I'd mention it ... keep up the good work ... :)
19:58:28 * flo wonders if we have a way to know if some of our users are from Iran
20:07:25 <clokep_work> Check the update pings?
20:07:32 <clokep_work> For IP address ranges in Iran. :-S
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20:38:39 <SilverSurfer> clopek_work: Look'd @ bug filed under 434 ... no mention of viewable pwords tho ...
20:40:11 <clokep_work> SilverSurfer: If we use the toolkit manager it would move the passwords into the system that Firefox/Thunderbird uses instead of storing them in your preferences.
20:41:03 <clokep_work> And the first comment talks about passwords being in clear text...
20:41:41 <SilverSurfer> clopek_work: srry, mayb I hav the wrong link ...
20:41:58 <clokep_work> The one linked to above is correct.
20:42:10 <clokep_work> The report is rather technical, but I think it's what you're asking for. Where are you looking?
20:43:27 <flo> on bmo maybe? :-S
20:44:58 <clokep_work> SilverSurfer: The proper URL is https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=434
20:45:01 <instantbot> Bug 434 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Use toolkit password manager
20:46:32 <SilverSurfer> clopek_work: Did a search for it on bugzilla ... hav since scroll'd back up for your link ... my apologies
20:46:49 <clokep_work> Alright. :)
20:47:00 <clokep_work> What bug were you on (out of curiosity)?
20:48:57 <SilverSurfer> clokep_work: srry abt mispell of your nick ... dyslexic ... 'lol 
20:50:13 <SilverSurfer> clokep_work: Search'd for Bug 434 brought up -> https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=Bug+434
20:50:16 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=434 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Use toolkit password manager
20:50:53 <SilverSurfer> clokep_work: Thanks for the correct link ...
20:53:09 <SilverSurfer> clokep_work: So you will eventually use the same toolkit manager as FF/Thunderbird ?
20:54:37 <clokep_work> Bah that really should give the correct result, if you had searched for just "434" then it would have worked fine.
20:54:44 <clokep_work> SilverSurfer: That's the plan eventually.
20:56:09 <SilverSurfer> clokep_work: Ok, thank-you ... srry for the mix-up ...
20:57:09 <clokep_work> Not a problem. :)
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22:42:43 <Helena> what is instantbird
22:43:25 <flo> Helena: http://www.instantbird.com/
22:46:05 <Helena> ok
22:46:10 <Helena> ziet er goed uit
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22:48:28 <Helena> anyone talking on here
22:48:43 <EionRobb> flo: I think you meant http://lmgtfy.com/?q=instantbird ;)
22:49:00 <flo> EionRobb: yeah, or just read the topic ;)
22:49:10 <aleth> a bot?
22:49:33 <flo> on chatzilla?
22:50:04 <Helena> cool
22:50:16 <Helena> thats really cool!!
22:51:58 <EionRobb> I have a question about instantbird: why should it take so long to compile :(
22:53:59 <Mook_as> because building mozilla takes forever :'(
22:55:29 <EionRobb> what if you made a plugin that loaded in libpurple plugins, without having to be rewritten for instantbird :)
22:57:18 <flo> there are almost no code changes, it's mostly a recompile of the plugin ;)
22:57:32 <EionRobb> and there lies the problem :)
22:57:54 <EionRobb> unless.... could I write a wrapper for it in javascript?
22:58:11 <flo> for what?
22:59:08 <flo> a javascript wrapper to make code compiled with mingw compatible with code compiled with MSVC, given that several of data types don't even have the same number of bits for both?
22:59:34 <EionRobb> yeah, to load in the dll/so
22:59:52 <EionRobb> just like how google did it with gears for firefox
23:04:30 <flo> I still don't understand what you are requesting (or if you are just dreaming out loud)
23:06:36 <EionRobb> a bit of dreaming, a bit of requesting
23:06:48 <EionRobb> just trying to find an easier way to load in plugins without having to compile the mozilla junk
23:07:13 <flo> write them in JS :)
23:07:21 <flo> you won't have anything to compile
23:07:28 <flo> and it will work directly on all the 3 OSes :)
23:07:42 <EionRobb> roflcopter :D
23:08:20 <Mook_as> or if you need to have binaries for some odd reason, js-ctypes - you still need to compile one shared lib each, but at least there's nothing mozilla about it
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23:10:51 <EionRobb> now we're getting somewhere
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23:13:30 <flo> if someone had a lot of motivation to make life easier for people compiling libpurple plugins for instantbird add-on, I think it would be possible to hack our build system so that it builds and uploads a minimal SDK (containing just what's needed to build a libpurple plugin) with releases (and maybe even nightlies)
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23:14:53 <flo> all you really need is the libpurple/glib/libxml2 header files, a handful of mozilla header files (those required to build xpcomModule.cpp that is statically linked into the prpl), and a few .lib/.so files
23:23:45 <flo> EionRobb: I did try to make instantbird load unmodified libpurple plugins to accomodate linux distribution packagers, but it didn't work all that well :(. See bug 414 for an example of how broken it ends up.
23:23:49 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=414 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, --enable-purple-plugins doesn't work
23:25:21 <EionRobb> looks like it almost works :)
23:28:30 <flo> yeah, "almost". We pushed the experiment far enough to understand it will never be reliable.
23:28:41 <flo> and that's linux only of course.
23:29:05 <hicham> it won't be reliable of course
23:29:07 <hicham> evident
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23:33:15 <flo> Good night
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