#instantbird log on 08 30 2011

All times are UTC.

00:09:15 <flo> does this seem to match what has been discussed here for 1.1 https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Roadmap:1.1 ?
00:09:21 <flo> I tried to summary
00:09:34 <flo> please let me know if I've missed something important :)
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00:32:03 <aleth> actually I can't remember when Instantbird last interrupted me :)
00:32:49 <clokep> Shouldn't bug 1000 have a bunch of blockers on it then? :P
00:32:52 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1000 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Minimize user interruptions
00:33:21 <flo> aleth: you don't have spammed AIM accounts? ;)
00:33:36 <flo> http://crash-stats.instantbird.com/report/index/9ab3d8e4-c97d-4b99-ba41-fbdcc2110824 has a pretty obvious cause
00:34:27 <aleth> flo: thankfully, no AIM, so spam is very rare
00:35:13 <aleth> In fact I can't remember a single instance on XMPP
00:42:26 <clokep> I usually get MSN/ICQ spam usually.
00:44:28 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 999 to DUPLICATE of bug 307.
00:44:30 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=999 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO DUPLICATE, remember hidden converation on buddy list on restart
00:44:31 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=307 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Restoring session after restart
00:46:42 <flo> Good night :)
00:47:35 <clokep> Goodnight.
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01:34:35 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1001 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
01:34:37 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1001 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, New messages merge with existed desaturated bubbles
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02:31:07 <clokep> flo: Did Colorize break?
02:36:51 <clokep> I also got exp.exec is not a function at http://hg.instantbird.org/addons/file/tip/shownick/content/shownick.js#l103 (perhaps _getRegExp returned null?)
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03:16:03 <Nakp> yo
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03:17:33 <Nakp> hey dudes... I have an emoticon set not yet reviewed or approved :(
03:17:51 <Nakp> it's been there since moths ago!
03:18:05 <Nakp> july 17th to be honest xD
03:30:04 * Nakp waits impatiantly
03:36:01 <Nakp> flo, Morian...
03:36:14 <Nakp> whom of you was supposed to review 'em? :(
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05:09:31 <Mook1> huh. got disconnected. came back. except not #developers?
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09:32:15 <flo> in case Nakp comes back, there's no emoticon set pending review. If he is sure he has requested review and the theme is still not reviewed, it would be nice to at least give the URL to the theme on the addons website so that we can check what happened ;).
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10:19:11 <Mic> I think the dull context bubbles don't look that good for some colors
10:20:44 <Mic> (blue for example)
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10:31:12 <clokep> And yellow. ;)
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10:34:28 <aleth> What do they look like if you adjust lightness rather than saturation?
10:34:47 <Mic> Even though the grayish smileys are awesome :)
10:35:02 <aleth> yes :)
10:35:03 <Mic> Darker? ;)
10:35:47 <aleth> I see your point, lighter bubbles might look more prominent than they should...
10:35:55 <aleth> Hard to predict
10:37:41 <aleth> Might be worth a try though - or a combination of that with desaturation
10:38:08 <Mic> Yes, indeed 
10:38:29 <flo> hmm, should the separator just be a system message? "The above messages have already been read in a previous session." ?
10:40:04 <aleth> imho that's unnecessarily verbose
10:40:37 <aleth> a simple thin red line right across the screen is what xchat does, works well
10:41:02 <flo> there's nothing simple in that, it would have to be implemented in each message theme.
10:41:08 <aleth> oh
10:41:24 <flo> + a red line is extremely catchy for the eye, compared to a system message that is usually in an easily ignored color.
10:41:44 <aleth> Well I would not insist on the red ;) that's just xchat
10:42:42 <clokep> Don't we want something catch so when you scroll back u p you can quickly find the spot you should start reading from?
10:42:59 <aleth> That was the idea
10:43:06 <Mic> Do we want to scroll down if the messages aren'T read yet?
10:43:31 <aleth> I suppose you could use a blank system message as a spacer
10:43:54 <aleth> Can't one draw a line and let the theme decide on the colour?
10:43:56 <Mic> What about scrolling down so far that one or two messages of context are still readable and the conversation is on the right spot to catch up from?
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10:46:31 <flo> Mic: do you want that when there are 1000+ unread messages?
10:46:57 <aleth> or draw a line in the system message colour? That would be themed already and should fit in well
10:47:24 <aleth> What I like about the line idea is that it is unobtrusive and yet visually separating
10:47:33 <flo> clokep: "Don't we want something catch so when you scroll back u p you can quickly find the spot you should start reading from?" well. The current look (on Bubbles) of context message does that for me. So I see the separator mostly as a way to explain what the difference in appearance means + justify splitting the bubble that has both new and context messages
10:48:28 <flo> aleth: if you have some HTML/CSS knowledge, I would encourage you to read a bit about how message themes work. I'm afraid "draw a line in the system message colour? That would be themed already" doesn't make any sense :-S
10:48:58 <aleth> sorry... that's good to know. I have no CSS skills
10:51:51 <clokep> flo: True. I don't know if the line is actually necessary to explain "why" the bubble is split, I would think the two being different colors would explain it
10:51:56 <flo> aleth: by the way, suggesting something without having any idea of how it would technically be implemented is usually not bad (it's better to separate user interaction and coding concerns when thinking) and is welcome, but asserting that something is simple or is already done when it isn't is not a good idea ;)
10:53:24 <aleth> flo: sorry, I meant visually simple, not simple to implement, which of course I cannot judge
10:54:05 <Mic> flo: no, but I'd maybe like it when there are only a few new ones
10:54:48 <flo> aleth: ok, sorry for misunderstanding then :).
10:54:51 <Mic> Changing between two different behaviours would be confusing, most likely?
10:55:15 <flo> Mic: I think I would like if it could scroll to the first ping actually
10:55:52 <flo> and provide a way to jump right to the next ping
10:56:39 <Mic> Pings are not shown using a separate class for styling, are they?
10:56:57 <clokep> I'd also like it if "read" messages (based on having a tab open for a certain amount of time and then putting that tab to the background) caused the messages to become context messages.
10:57:35 <flo> we discussed animating read messages into context messages after 5 minutes or so
10:57:45 <Mic> oh, they are .. :)
10:58:04 <clokep> Ah I must have missed that / forgotten that then. :)
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10:58:21 <Mic> Maybe it's easy to go through the elements and scrollIntoView them depending on some rules...
10:58:22 <clokep> Is there a bug on it?
10:58:22 <aleth> clokep: or maybe when switching between tabs, tabs that lose focus become context?
10:58:38 <Mic> .. anybody volunteers to write an extension to actually try the different behaviours? ;)
10:58:38 <flo> clokep: we didn't know how to do it without hacky JS code though :(
10:58:42 <Mic> lunch time.
10:58:46 <clokep> aleth: Yes, that's what I meant (but stated poorly), but only tabs that lose focus and had focus for a certain amount of time though.
10:59:23 <aleth> clokep: A combination of the two criteria would probably be ideal... no focus + timeout
10:59:39 <flo> how the tab that lose focus matter? Wouldn't read messages in a focused tab become context messages after a while too?
10:59:42 <aleth> clokep: i.e., treat such tabs essentially like hidden convos
10:59:46 <clokep> flo: Hacky = timers? That's unfortunate.
11:00:04 <clokep> flo: No, because the main tab always has focus (even though I might not be reading it).
11:00:26 <clokep> Anyway I'll be back in a bit.
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11:00:31 <flo> clokep: worse. The current context effect is done with an SVG filter. We had no idea of how to animate it, except having a dozen or so filters with different values, and switching between them with JS code :(
11:01:12 <flo> what do you mean by "the main tab always has focus"? Are you somehow saying "focus" when meaning "selected"?
11:01:39 <flo> when I say "focused" tab, I mean a tab that is selected in a window that is focused at the OS level.
11:02:04 <aleth> When the conversation window is covered by another window (e.g) you wouldnt want unread messages there to become context just because they have been sitting there for a while
11:02:15 <aleth> This applies only to the tab with focus
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11:03:26 <aleth> Ah, you are saying in this case the selected tab would not have focus. Definitions...
11:05:03 <aleth> I still think the issue applies. E.g. have the conversation window open and have a telephone conversation... you wouldn't want to come back and find unread messages turned into context
11:09:43 <aleth> Regarding the separation issue - how about a message styled like the "6 minutes" time elapsed notifications (ie, not in a bubble) consisting solely of a downward arrow ▼  (http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/25bc/index.htm) ?
11:10:06 <aleth> (or some similar symbol)
11:12:06 <flo> how would people guess the meaning of that arrow?
11:12:55 <aleth> I don't know, either it would look obvious when you see it (good design) or it wouldn't (bad design)
11:14:29 <aleth> I'm not even sure it would look good - just trying to come up with something within the current style which is visually catchy yet not too obtrusive
11:20:13 <aleth> Maybe a system message like you suggest would be enough, since the different shading already provides visual separation. I suppose I have a tendency towards minimalism in design...
11:25:02 <aleth> The other criterion I was implicity thinking of was something easily spotted when scrolling
11:25:52 <Mic> clokep: worse. The current context effect is done with an SVG filter. We had no idea of how to animate it, except having a dozen or so filters with different values, and switching between them with JS code :("
11:26:09 <Mic> Oops.
11:26:53 <Mic> A fullquote then .. ;) I don't think I meant to say that we definitely need to use JS to switch between them.
11:28:04 <Mic> I haven't tried putting them into an animation yet, maybe that works, even though it's not animatible (?)
11:28:33 <Mic> That is: maybe the filter sticks around until it is replaced by another in a different keyframe
11:35:53 * Mic didn't know that it's possible to join several channels at once using the "Join chat" dialog.
11:36:45 <Mic> A comma-separated list works for IRC at least.
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11:54:22 <clokep_work> So I realize that was pretty vague, by "main tab" I mean the tab I've left focused (even if I'm not actually using Instantbird).
11:55:06 <clokep_work> Yes, I agree it needs to be when the the window also has focus from the OS.
11:55:15 <clokep_work> (That wasn't implied to me by our previous discussion.)
11:56:39 <clokep_work> Mic: a comma separated list works for IRC since the contents of what you type is just sent to the JOIN command, which (for IRC) takes a comma separated list. ;)
11:58:01 <clokep_work> So pretty much my point of also marking things as context if I switch tabs is just to say "I've read this, don't show it to me again."
11:58:48 <clokep_work> (Even if less than the 5 minutes, or whatever time is chosen, to force messages to become context messages.)
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12:30:13 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1002 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
12:30:15 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1002 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Smartly mark messages of open conversations as context messages
12:30:41 <clokep_work> Well I didn't find a bug on the discussion, so I filed one. ;)
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13:11:08 * flo hasn't received the feedback he expected on https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Roadmap:1.1
13:11:43 <flo> especially, are there things we have already almost said we would do that aren't listed? :-S
13:12:07 <aleth> does not mention hidden conversations despite those already being implemented?
13:12:27 <aleth> or is that "conversation handling"
13:13:30 <aleth> also, making the tray icon persistent has been implemented/fixed
13:20:39 <flo> that's conversation handling, yes :)
13:21:34 <clokep_work> Do we care about things like "saved searches" for Tiwtter flo?
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13:22:00 <flo> isn't that more or less what the track keyword feature is for already?
13:22:31 * flo things bug 998 is "INVALID - non sense" :(
13:22:33 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=998 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, suggestion
13:22:43 <flo> *thinks
13:24:25 * flo would like to know why some SSL certificates are invalid with his default Firefox profile, but valid with more recent profiles :-/
13:25:13 <clokep_work> flo: Yes, I guess so...I was thinking maybe we should grab them from the user's Twitter page and show them each in a separate tab?
13:25:29 <flo> would be nice
13:25:48 <flo> I don't think that's a priority for 1.1 though
13:26:16 <clokep_work> (Plus also taking our "tracked keyword" feature and pushing it as a saved search maybe? :P)
13:26:20 <clokep_work> OK. :) Just wanted to bring it up.
13:26:29 <clokep_work> Seems OK besides that.
13:26:41 <clokep_work> I can work on the RT/Reply stuff once we have an idea for a UI. :-/
13:29:10 <flo> I'm afraid explaining with enough details for it to be implementable the UI idea I have for Reply would take almost as much time as just implementing it
13:29:27 <flo> for RT, my idea is to push forward the actionable message idea Mook started
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13:32:23 <flo> oh well, let's try anyway. For reply to, I think it should be an action on the message (probably the default action = the one trigerred by a double click) that would cause @username<space> to appear in the input box + "Replying to: <username>: <quote of the tweet>" in the status bar.
13:32:45 <flo> emptying completely the textbox would remove that from the status bar (= this is the way to cancel I was looking for)
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13:33:27 <clokep_work> OK.
13:33:28 <flo> that behavior would be explicit when the status bar is visible, and would mostly make sense when it's not (= the replying to field of the posted tweet would usually be good)
13:35:51 <flo> that requires: 1. Finishing the action message stuff (both the XPCOM part on which Mook has already made a very significant portion of the work, and the UI stuff) 2. Hacking significantly the way we display in the status bar, so that prpls have more freedom to tinker with it. 3. adding a way for prpls to receive metadata alongside a message that is being sent.
13:36:51 <clokep_work> Yeah, that's a lot of changes...
13:38:05 <flo> none of the other UI ideas I've had make sense / seem acceptable.
13:39:57 <flo> hmm, I've an idea to avoid giving the metadata
13:40:25 <clokep_work> Also, a reply doesn't really need the @username to be prepended, so would that be striped?
13:40:32 <flo> we can just make the twitter code listen for the sendTyping calls and reset the inReplyTo value when there are 0 characters
13:40:55 <flo> isn't it a common practice to put it?
13:42:13 <clokep_work> I don't think it's actually part of the message when you do a "real" reply, but maybe I'm forgetting the specs they give. :-/
13:42:23 <flo> it seems my crash report didn't attract much interest yesterday in devel@c.pidgin.im
13:42:31 <clokep_work> I guess you probably do prepend it + give the metadata to Twitter that says it's in reply to xyz.
13:42:38 <flo> we will figure it out anyway ;)
13:42:42 <clokep_work> Yeah, no one seemed to care. :(
13:43:03 <flo> Good thing I don't care either about yahoo :P
13:45:45 <clokep_work> Hah.
13:45:56 <flo> I've never used it
13:46:01 <clokep_work> I'll clean up my other Twitter patch and get that in though, it'll be a step in the right direction for Twitter. :)
13:46:05 <flo> like ICQ. No one uses it in France.
13:46:17 <clokep_work> I used to use Yahoo w/ a few people...haven't in a long time...(still sign in though ;))
13:47:34 <flo> sounds like AIM for me ;). I used it when I discovered IM. All the people I know in France who used it have abandoned it now.
13:48:13 <clokep_work> Yeah, that was Yahoo/MSN for me for a bit.
13:48:43 <flo> I haven't really used MSN for months, if not years
13:49:25 <flo> the real interactions tend to be on Gtalk/Facebook (+ irc for people here)
13:50:13 <clokep_work> Yup. A shame that the only way XMPP is taking off is via GTalk/Facebook. :P
13:50:46 <flo> especially Facebook :-D
13:51:36 <flo> and linux is doing the same with modem/routers where "nobody" knows there's an operating system ;).
13:52:34 <clokep_work> Btw with facebook, one of my friends couldn't get it to work...apparently she never made a Facebook username and assumed that by "username" it was just the part of the email before the @. :-/
13:52:54 <clokep_work> Their whole set up is just a mess.
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13:54:19 <flo> clokep_work: so you told here to read the FAQ? ;)
13:54:20 <clokep_work> Is that timeline supposed to include things we already fixed btw? :P
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13:54:36 <clokep_work> Yup! :)
13:54:47 <flo> it's supposed to include the important items, especially those I shouldn't forget
13:55:10 <flo> but if we have already fixed important things that don't go in "improved stability" and should be listed, feel free to edit the page :)
14:00:49 <aleth> If the Facebook FAQ problems applies so often, could one not catch those error messages and display the appropriate info from within ib, automatically?
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14:06:44 <clokep_work> Also for Twitter: add a way to handle following/followers (not necessarily in a message context, but from the contact list)
14:07:00 <clokep_work> But perhaps that's not 1.1 worthy. :)
14:07:57 * flo agrees
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14:11:25 <clokep_work> flo: Is bug 875 true?
14:11:28 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=875 cri, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Unable to register to multiple Twitter account : 'username incorrect'
14:11:45 <clokep_work> I think it's a differnet issue (the stupid checking of the Twitter username...which we should probably remove?)
14:12:19 <flo> it's possible and would suck. I've never tried to reproduce
14:15:48 * clokep_work only has one Twitter account.
14:16:14 <flo> I've only one test account
14:16:39 <flo> I obviously will need another one :)
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15:06:44 <flo> I'm taking a bunch of the easy bug that depends on bug 978
15:06:47 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=978 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Tracking bug for "Hiding conversations"
15:06:48 <flo> *bugs
15:08:02 <Mic|web> flo: do you have a particular date in mind for the release of 1.1?
15:08:11 <flo> september
15:09:12 <Mic|web> Could be a nice thing: "discover this network" for IRC .. a way to view a list of channels, the number of users and topics .. like MIbbit has it: http://clientsearch.mibbit.com/client/channels/Mozilla
15:12:02 <flo> while tab-ing through the UI elements of the Contacts window, there are 3 things that take focus beside the 2 lists. Given that there are 4 clickable things (user icon, display name, status type, status text), I wonder which of the 4 are the 3 that can take keyboard focus.
15:12:16 <flo> and that probably needs some improvement anyway ;)
15:13:28 <flo> but I have a fix bug 982, that will be enough for now
15:13:31 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=982 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Make "hidden conversation" list keyboard accessible
15:19:26 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1003 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
15:19:28 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1003 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, "Discover this network" for IRC (list channels, topics,..)
15:24:47 <Mic|web> flo: have you looked through the list of bugs that were wanted/nice-to-have for 1.0?
15:24:58 <flo> no :)
15:25:10 <Mic|web> Maybe there was something you'd like to see shipping asap
15:26:11 <flo> wouldn't it be in 1.0 then? ;)
15:26:36 <flo> I think there was rich text in outgoing messages.
15:26:53 <Mic|web> Not necessaril, since "shipping is also a feature"
15:26:56 <Mic|web> ;)
15:26:58 <flo> I don't think I've seen even one complaint for that since the release
15:27:13 <flo> facebook, gmail, twitter, etc... don't support that. So maybe people forgot about it :)
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15:31:00 <clokep_work> Mic|web: We have a bug about searching IRC channels already I think.
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15:31:23 <clokep_work> We still have an open bug from 1.0 I think (finish the list of notifications).
15:32:31 <flo> ah, the documentation for add-on developers :(
15:32:39 <clokep_work> Yes. :-/
15:32:57 <aleth> bug 500
15:33:00 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=500 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Autocomplete / drop down for chat rooms in Join Chat menu
15:33:23 <Mic|web> clokep_work: I can't find it.
15:33:36 <Mic|web> oh, there it is :)
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15:33:48 <flo> For bug 988, what would you think of having a single scrollbar for both sections at once?
15:33:50 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=988 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, A long list of hidden conversations can make the contacts section unusable
15:34:41 <Mic|web> Bug 500 is to assist users who already know what they want?
15:35:13 <Mic|web> clokep_work: the "remembering vs recognizing".. thing
15:35:23 <clokep_work> Mic|web: Not exactly what you're suggesting...but it could be seen as the same.
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15:35:49 <clokep_work> Not necessarily, it could "autocomplete" to descriptions, etc.
15:36:01 <clokep_work> I guess you can't just "browse" then without some sort of keyword.
15:36:05 <clokep_work> Let me read your bug first though. :P
15:36:09 <clokep_work> (Before I comment.)
15:36:19 <clokep_work> flo: Yes, but I think making one or both collapsible would help too.
15:37:21 <flo> both could be collapsible I guess
15:39:34 <clokep_work> (Maybe it's unnecessary though...)
15:39:56 <clokep_work> Did we file a bug yet about sorting the hidden conversations list? (Or even just discussed what the sorting should be?)
15:40:12 <aleth> it's quite a small window, so a single scroll bar seems appropriate
15:42:25 <flo> clokep_work: we haven't. I wondered about how we should sort a few minutes ago
15:42:46 <flo> aleth: I agree. I hate scrollbars, so the less I can put of them, the happier I am :).
15:44:06 <aleth> flo: yes, the one thing I would like to have from unity are those hidden scrollbars :)
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15:45:01 <Mic|web> The contents of the conversation list aren't really static (the items and their order change at the moment everytime you open/hide a conversation) and that's why I think it would not make sense to keep the viewport on a particular spot
15:45:25 <Mic|web> so we don't need a way to scroll it separately in my opinion
15:47:01 <clokep_work> I agree. :)
15:47:06 <clokep_work> (And please sort alphabetically.)
15:48:54 <Mic|web> Alphabetical sounds like a good idea for the start + a way for extension to customize that if someone disagrees?
15:52:58 <flo> does that require adding all the transition code that we have for contacts? :-X
15:53:43 <flo> just doing the expand/collapse animation would probably be enough though
15:53:55 <Mic|web> What is the other?
15:54:00 <Mic|web> Fading out the name?
15:54:33 <flo> yes
15:54:48 <Mic|web> I think the problem with the contacts was that they might come back quickly and the animation should stop in the middle and don't do the collapse/expand animation
15:55:03 <flo> yes
15:55:10 <flo> and also, you want to see which contact disappears
15:55:15 <Mic|web> Do we need this for the conversations?
15:55:26 <flo> unlike for conversations, which tend to disappear only when the user interacts with them
15:55:26 <clokep_work> No, user interaction is required to bring it back, no?
15:55:52 <aleth> An alternative: You could sort alphabetically while grouping channels on the same server
15:56:06 <aleth> but maybe that's too much
15:56:52 <Mic|web> aleth: if it is customizable by extensions anyone can have what he likes best (if he's willing to spend time on it)
15:57:50 <clokep_work> Ah, we should add that sorting method for buddies to for 1.1, I think it's a quick fix (I just keep forgetting to code it up. :()
15:57:56 <flo> aleth: I created the Conversations part with a header at a higher level than the contact groups, in the hope that we could have something displayed like the contact group to group conversations by network
15:58:08 <flo> (I think all irc.mozilla.org conversations should probably be grouped together)
15:58:29 <flo> I don't think we are going to implement all of that for 1.1 though
15:58:55 <aleth> flo: neat
15:59:31 <Mic|web> CSS animations can have several keyframs/steps that animate different properties, that could help here.
16:00:19 <Mic|web> We'd still need to remove the item after it was hidden
16:00:32 <flo> Mic|web: CSS animations may help to cleanup some of the CSS transition + JS code of the Contacts list :)
16:01:23 <Mic|web> Transitions are no good when an element is freshly inserted and should do someting visually
16:02:20 <flo> yeah, even though we managed to hack around that ;)
16:02:39 <Mic|web> Yes, we set and removed an attribute iirc ..
16:05:32 * clokep_work wonders if we want to do wanted, nicetohave, etc. flags?
16:05:40 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1004 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
16:05:42 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1004 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Replace CSS transitions with CSS animations where appropriate
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16:09:27 <clokep_work> So what really is the difference between as "CSS transition" and a "CSS animation"?
16:09:37 <clokep_work> I wasn't really able to figure it out when reading the documentationa bout them. :-/
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16:12:38 <clokep_work> Is it just 2 state vs. multistate?
16:12:57 <Mic|web> You can also repeat animations but not transitions
16:13:59 <Mic|web> And they seem to work when the element didn't have a "old styling" that could serve as starting point for a transition
16:14:36 <Mic|web> You define a from (0%) and to (100%) state for animations, while transitions only come with "to (100%)", so to speak
16:14:53 <clokep_work> Ah I see.
16:15:00 <clokep_work> So animations are generally just more useful? ;)
16:16:17 <Mic|web> I haven't tried  but I guess a transition might be a special case of an animation (not repeating, no starting properties defined, no extra steps but 100%, ..) 
16:18:43 <clokep_work> So we can make marquees again? Is this where the web is going?
16:19:13 <Mic|web> No, the specs say that you're not allowed to create marquees
16:19:33 <Mic|web> Same for blinking.
16:19:36 <Mic|web> ;)
16:19:52 <clokep_work> :) I secretly hope you're not kidding. :P
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16:20:45 <flo> but you are allowed for non-US characters ;)
16:22:11 * flo goes away (kayak for an hour or so :))
16:22:15 <Mic|web> Should MUC participants be animated on the list when joining or leaving
16:22:17 <Mook_as> Mic is kidding, otherwise text-decoration: blink wouldn't exist ;)
16:22:38 <flo> Mic|web: sure :)
16:23:08 <Mic|web> Have fun kayaking, btw
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16:25:14 <Mic|web> No more lost ideas :)
16:25:14 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1005 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
16:25:17 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1005 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Animate joining/leaving participants of MUCs on the participant list
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16:27:37 <clokep_work> What was the fix for speeding up the MUC list btw? It's a libpurple thing, right? (Not a presentation thing)
16:28:20 <Mic|web> I think it's a presentation thing, let me find the bug
16:28:39 <Mic|web> Bug 276
16:28:41 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=276 min, --, ---, benediktp, ASSI, Nicklist painfully slow
16:30:26 <clokep_work> Right.
16:30:33 <clokep_work> I thought he mentioned something about it recently, but perhaps now.
16:30:36 <clokep_work> s/now/not/
16:30:42 <Mic|web> Yes, he did
16:30:55 <clokep_work> That blocks a lot though. :-/
16:32:32 <Mic|web> You can go through the last few days, looking for "executeSoon", I'm sure you'll find it then
16:33:45 <clokep_work> Ah, thanks for the string. :)
16:34:55 <clokep_work> Yes, it's http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/110826/#m549
16:35:01 * clokep_work thinks we should add the logs to lxr.
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16:35:45 <clokep_work> Hmmm...I wonder if that even happens w/ my JS IRC.
16:36:06 <clokep_work> I think I lazily add people to the room as I get each individual message with nicks (i.e. I don't wait for the nicklist ended command).
16:36:17 <clokep_work> (Maybe greedily, not lazily? :P)
16:37:17 <Mic|web> Large rooms like #ubuntu on freenode take a moment to load wit the libpurple IRC, can you try to see if there's a difference with yours?
16:38:54 * clokep_work will when he gets home.
16:39:25 <Mic|web> Good point ;)
16:39:29 <Mic|web> Bye!
16:39:52 <Mook_as> so, how do I use your js IRC impl instead of the libpurple one? :)
16:40:03 <Mook_as> (please tell me it doesn't involve checking things out from hg)
16:40:48 <clokep_work> (Figure you're limited to 510 characters per message, the command + server is gonna be 50 characters, each nick is probably 5 - 6 characters long + the space separated list...that leaves room for like 75 nicks.)
16:41:01 <clokep_work> Mook_as: It involes checking things out from hg currently. :)
16:41:08 <clokep_work> There's a few bugs I need to fix before it's really "usable".
16:41:25 <clokep_work> (I'm having a bug right now where it's failing to reconnect after a disconnect, which I /thought/ I had fixed...)
16:41:35 <clokep_work> (+ my SSL connection seems broken right now)
16:42:04 <clokep_work> Once those two things are fixed I think it should be generally "usable", then I need to strip/parse formatting tags and it should be on par with libpurple.
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16:43:57 <clokep_work> I haven't dove back into it yet unfortunately. :( I'm hoping to after I get the Sametime garbage worked out (and maybe clearing one or two other bugs from my list).
16:44:41 <Mook_as> no worries, you're still doing more work than I am :p
16:45:22 <clokep_work> Bug 507 occasionally gets XPIs...well was occasionally...the ones on there right now are probably crashy (at best).
16:45:25 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=507 enh, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Implement IRC in JavaScript
16:45:48 <Mook_as> does AIO support beta addons?
16:46:10 <clokep_work> I don't think so.
16:50:13 <Mook_as> ooh, the diginotar changes are on the release hg repos now
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16:55:16 <clokep_work> diginotar?
16:55:23 <clokep_work> digital signed no tar?
16:55:57 <clokep_work> Ohhh, the issue with the signed certificate?
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16:57:36 <Mook_as> yeah. see http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-release/
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16:59:33 <clokep_work> Hm, interesting.
16:59:45 <clokep_work> The whole CA cert model seems weird to me, but maybe I Just don't understand it. :)
17:00:12 * Mook_as wonders what http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-release/rev/43636529bf9d#l1.44 is about
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18:05:43 <flo> clokep_work: I don't think it freezes with the libpurple plugin if we open the conversation before the nick list has been fully received.
18:06:13 <flo> but when reopening a conversation tab, we have the full list all the time when calling getParticipants
18:08:49 <clokep_work> Oh OK, so we'd need to do something anyway.
18:08:56 <flo> Mook_as: the "Dutch government" probably doesn't want to pay for a new certificate and its deployment ;)
18:09:10 <Mook_as> haha
18:09:17 <flo> clokep_work: it's clearly a bug in the UI
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18:12:13 * clokep_work is wondering about stealing it from Mic.
18:12:29 <clokep_work> But curious whether it should be a tree or not. (That's probably the "correct" way?)
18:12:39 <flo> no tree :)
18:13:02 <flo> just keep it like it is, but insert executeSoon calls
18:15:12 <Mook_as> or if you want to be really fancy, fake it with your own scrollbar / viewport impl. (that's probably overkill though)
18:16:15 <clokep_work> So you mean pretty  much a richlistbox which only renders the viewable stuff Mook_as? :P
18:16:22 <Mook_as> yep :p
18:16:35 <Mook_as> (I did it recently for some komodo bits, except I used a <grid>)
18:18:03 <clokep_work> Oh? Want to do it with richlistbox then? ;)
18:19:22 <flo> Mook_as: that was the point of using a tree: it displays only what's visible
18:20:26 <flo> Mook_as: I'm seriously considering that for the message history area though, as you probably already know ;)
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18:24:29 <Mic> clokep_work: no need for stealing anything anymore;)
18:25:57 <clokep_work> Mic: But you being assigned it was giving me a good reaosn to not even think about working on it unless I was really bored. :P
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18:32:41 <flo> clokep_work: is there anything left to do on your sametime patch by the way?
18:34:10 <Mook_as> yeah, and the problem with trees is that it's so restricted :) (it would _probably_ be okay for the participant list, though, if you can get the color stuff nailed down)
18:35:37 <flo> Mook_as: it's possible to change the color with CSS rules, but that's so painful...
18:36:24 <flo> but not being able to use most CSS properties and XBL makes trees unfriendly ;)
18:37:15 <clokep_work> flo: I have to look over it again, I think I need to write two or three lines of code / throw a debug statement in there.
18:37:56 <flo> would be nice if it could be finished and landed in the next 10 days or so :)
18:38:28 <clokep_work> I'll try to get it done tonight (and if I can't work out the backward compatible pidgin garbage, then what I have should work fine), although I can't test of course. :-X
18:40:56 <clokep_work> Is there anything else in my plate that really needs to get done in the next few days?
18:41:02 <clokep_work> I can prioritize.
18:41:13 * clokep_work is also free all day tonight. ;)
18:41:18 <flo> there's no rush :)
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18:45:34 <clokep_work> OK. :)
18:45:51 <clokep_work> I'm going to try to redo that Twitter patch again (bug 850), could you perhaps comment on it with my quesiton though?
18:45:54 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=850 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Twitter should start from last known tweet
18:47:45 <-- aleth has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1a1pre)
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18:54:01 <clokep_work> (Pretty much, do you want the code in there that opens the timeline via Join Conversation menu or not.)
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19:51:56 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 1006 filed by thefivepoints@hotmail.com.
19:51:57 <instantbot> thefivepoints@hotmail.com added attachment 794 to bug 1006.
19:51:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1006 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Contact list names are cut off
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20:10:21 <flo> clokep_work: keep that code for the join chat thing, it's good.
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20:10:59 <flo> my concern is that if we land that patch, then finishing the conv handling stuff and turning it on by default more or less becomes a release blocker
20:12:24 <clokep_work> We could always back it out. ;)
20:12:45 <clokep_work> Or we could always open a blank conversation maybe?
20:13:16 <clokep_work> (Perhaps with a system message "No new content available" or something similar.
20:13:17 <clokep_work> )
20:22:48 <flo> we should be able to find some "context messages" though ;)
20:23:52 <clokep_work> Hmm...true. :)
20:25:18 <clokep_work> That could be a follow up though?
20:27:42 <clokep_work> Time to go home!
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20:36:14 <flo> yes, follow-up, whatever. You seem to care more than I do about this code/issue. The code is good. Let's land it, and if people are upset, we can still back-out or add a hidden pref for it later
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20:54:33 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 1006 to DUPLICATE of bug 935.
20:54:36 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1006 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO DUPLICATE, Contact list names are cut off
20:54:37 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=935 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, User Interface Problems With Scaled DPI Settings
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20:57:52 <myk1> hmm, no /whois support
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21:05:28 <flo> will anybody hate me for this http://pastebin.instantbird.com/926?
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21:20:56 <flo> well, I mean a working version of that of course ;)
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21:22:58 <clokep> flo: Yes I care about it because every time I sign on it bothers me. :P
21:23:37 <flo> ah, you get dozens of notifications on your screen? :-D
21:23:59 <clokep> Yes.
21:24:19 * clokep doesn't care about that change.
21:24:42 <clokep> Although do we prefer |if (!convs.length) {|?
21:26:54 <flo> I do, but I remember Mic dislike it
21:26:56 <Mic> I find that stuff misleading
21:27:04 <Mic> :D
21:27:35 <flo> and my question was more about whether it's OK to break the API just because I dislike the current API and am too lazy to write 2-3 additional code lines to use it
21:28:07 <clokep> I don't think anyone else uses that API.
21:28:10 <clokep> I'm OK w/ it.
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21:29:09 <Mic> My favourite is the double exclamation mark, though
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21:35:50 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com added attachment 795 to bug 850.
21:35:51 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com cancelled review?(florian@instantbird .org) for attachment 739 on bug 850.
21:35:52 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 795 on bug 850.
21:35:53 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=850 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Twitter should start from last known tweet
21:42:43 <flo> here is the full patch http://pastebin.instantbird.com/927 (bug 997)
21:42:46 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=997 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Unread message warning on quitting the program doesn't count new messages in hidden conversations
21:45:02 <flo> I wonder if this (fixing the count) is good enough or if we need to try to do something clever when the unread conversations are hidden
21:45:22 <clokep> It looks like it would work.
21:45:43 <flo> it does work
21:46:09 <flo> but if the unread messages are in hidden conversations, won't the user be confused that the prompt is attached to a conversation window?
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21:49:01 <clokep> Yes. :-/
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21:51:48 <flo> and ensuring the contacts window is visible is more complicated than it seems
21:52:01 <flo> if it's closed, I can't reopen it synchronously on Mac
21:52:27 <flo> the state of that window may depend on the mintrayr code on other OSes
21:53:11 <Mic> Good night.
21:53:21 <clokep> Good night Mic.
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21:53:34 <flo> oh well, it'll be good enough for now
21:53:44 <clokep> Can we just do center of the screen or is that too blocking?
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21:55:09 <flo> on mac it will attach to the foremost window if none is specified, and seemes to go at the center of the screen only when nothing is visible that it could attach to
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21:55:31 <flo> on Windows I think the message will be at the center of the screen anyway
21:56:41 <clokep> Yes, I think i tis.
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22:06:51 <flo> clokep: the last change of your new patch isn't desired :-P
22:07:18 <flo> out of curiosity, what are you working on that lives after classID and that you removed to make the diff? ;)
22:07:21 <clokep> Oops, sorry. :(
22:07:41 <clokep> NOthing that I can recall.
22:08:50 <clokep> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/928 if you need it then. ;)
22:09:09 <clokep> Hmmm....yeah I'm not sure what that could be from.
22:09:27 <flo> I've already removed that comma locally ;)
22:09:32 <clokep> flo: Is there libpurple API documentation somewhere?
22:09:42 <flo> yes
22:09:45 <flo> but lxr is better
22:10:39 <flo> http://developer.pidgin.im/doxygen/dev/html/group__core.html
22:10:41 <clokep> Alright.
22:11:09 <flo> it's just doxygen extracting the comments in the headers and generating HTML
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22:12:40 <clokep> Oh OK. Thanks. :)
22:12:46 <flo> well, I guess it's possible to prefer what doxygen produces, depending on what you got used to reading
22:14:56 <clokep> Hah.
22:15:00 <clokep> Yeah, ended up on lxr.
22:15:03 <clokep> It's searchable. ;)
22:15:11 <flo> + clickable
22:15:22 <flo> to find all the use examples
22:16:18 <clokep> Yup!
22:16:22 <clokep> Thanks. :)
22:17:16 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 795 on bug 850.
22:17:19 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=850 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Twitter should start from last known tweet
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22:22:12 <clokep> :)
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22:30:36 <clokep> OK, Sameitme is mostly working.
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22:48:53 <clokep> flo: These are my changes for sametime.c right now: can you skim over them and seem if they're reasonable? (I've tested them as much as I can with debug statements...) http://pastebin.instantbird.com/929
22:51:08 <flo> line 121 of the pastebin. Why?
22:51:44 <clokep> Why did I remove the g_free(user)?
22:52:00 <clokep> I copied http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/libpurple/protocols/irc/irc.c#354
22:52:07 <clokep> And that didn't have a g_free(user).
22:52:13 * clokep is really bad w/ memory management.
22:52:44 <flo> line 117 doesn't seem voluntary
22:53:22 <clokep> What? Line 117 is a whitespace change (which I'll fix).
22:53:55 <flo> :)
22:54:23 <clokep> So, I should put the g_free back in?
22:54:28 <flo> so the code to read the usersplit was already there and you had nothing to do + this is backward compatible without any effort?
22:54:31 <flo> yes, please.
22:55:17 <clokep> The code for the username split was already there, yes. I just had to add the part that actually adds the split in the init function.
22:55:26 <clokep> (And I think it's backward compatible, yes.)
22:55:39 <flo> sounds good :)
22:56:32 <clokep> EionRobb: Do you think you could take a look at http://pastebin.instantbird.com/930 and see if it looks reasonable to add a username split to Sametime (while hopefully maintaining backward compatibility with old accounts)?
22:56:34 <clokep> Thanks flo. :)
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22:56:48 <clokep> (+ a bunch of MSVC changes, but those are simple.)
22:57:02 <clokep> OK I'm going to cook dinner then and make a new Sametime patch.
22:57:08 <EionRobb> why me? :)
22:57:24 <clokep> Cause you've made like 50 protocols and have experience with libpurple...which no one else in here does. :-D
22:57:50 <EionRobb> lol
22:57:57 * clokep is hoping to upstream the changes...
22:58:04 <EionRobb> that was my next question :)
22:58:13 <flo> :)
22:59:06 <EionRobb> wow, I've never seen the  { .data = buf } syntax before for structs
22:59:39 <clokep> That code is old. :-X
23:01:17 <EionRobb> can multiple sametime servers run on the same host on different ports?
23:01:32 <EionRobb> if so, you might want to consider adding the port as a user_split too
23:01:46 <flo> EionRobb: it's C99 and doesn't compile on MSVC. I made the changes in libpurple to remove that where necessary.
23:02:38 <flo> EionRobb: I think the port is fine as an advanced option. It has a default value that won't prevent a connection attempt :).
23:02:54 <clokep> EionRobb: I have no idea honestly.
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23:03:06 <clokep> (But you could make that argument for IRC or XMPP, etc. Couldn't you?)
23:03:29 <EionRobb> clokep: fair enough :)
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23:04:27 <EionRobb> clokep: after looking over the patch, the only thing I would be concerned about is that it still uses purple_account_get_string(account, MW_KEY_HOST... to get the host, rather than using the user split
23:04:57 <flo> EionRobb: it does that only if the ":" character isn't found in the username string
23:05:30 <flo> that prpl used to have the usersplit we are adding back, and the parsing code has never been removed (it was kept for backward compatibility)
23:05:33 <EionRobb> ah ok... that bit isn't in the patch :)
23:05:45 <flo> yes. I hesitated too while reading that. :)
23:06:23 <EionRobb> so the purple_account_get_string stuff should be taken out for the host?
23:06:47 <clokep> Only if we want to break backward compatibility.
23:06:59 <EionRobb> libxmpp also uses purple_account_user_split_set_reverse(split, FALSE); when creating the splits... I don't know if that's needed here though?
23:07:13 <EionRobb> could you copy the account_get_string value into the split/username?
23:07:31 <clokep> That's done in mw_plugin_init
23:07:36 <clokep> (See the very end of the patch).
23:07:44 <clokep> Well...it's kind of done I guess.
23:07:59 <clokep> I wasn't sure if it's possible to add it to the split, that would make more sense, yes...
23:08:01 <clokep> Hmmm...
23:08:38 <EionRobb> modifying the username might affect logging though... might as well leave it :)
23:08:41 <EionRobb> patch looks good :)
23:08:54 <clokep> Thanks. :)
23:09:48 <flo> clokep: so is that damn prpl ready for check-in tonight? :)
23:10:09 <clokep> flo: Yes.
23:10:21 <clokep> One last question though...
23:10:45 <clokep> line 119 of http://pastebin.instantbird.com/930 is a string change...how do handle that in the .properties file?
23:11:52 <flo> I'll need to re-run the convert script
23:13:10 <clokep> Alright.
23:20:42 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com added attachment 796 to bug 102.
23:20:43 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 796 on bug 102.
23:20:44 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102 enh, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, (Re-)Add support for the Sametime protocol.
23:26:51 <clokep> There ya go flo. ;) I'll put up a new diff soon.
23:26:55 <clokep> (From libpurple)
23:27:15 <clokep> But the only file I've touched is sametime.c, which I just had you look at. :)
23:28:53 <flo> I don't understand why I can't receive mouseevents on the label that shows the unread count
23:29:15 <flo> I would like to have a hand pointer there, and a single click to open the conversation, like for chat bubbles on contacts
23:29:42 <clokep> Isn't the binding essentially the same as a buddy? Why would the mouseover be acting differently?
23:29:48 <clokep> (Maybe missing a clickthrough or something?)
23:30:19 <flo> I tried removing it the (mousethrough="always" attribute), it didn't help
23:30:30 <flo> I tried setting -moz-user-focus to normal. Didn't help either.
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23:31:19 <clokep> :-/ Those were my quick ideas.
23:35:37 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com added attachment 797 to bug 102.
23:35:40 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102 enh, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, (Re-)Add support for the Sametime protocol.
23:35:49 <clokep> OK, got that patch done. Do youw ant me to look over what you have flo? See if I see anything incorrect?
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23:36:40 <flo> clokep: I've just commited the working parts of my patch. The single-click thing on the unread count will have to wait.
23:36:44 <flo> but thanks! :)
23:36:56 <clokep> Alright! :)
23:37:04 <clokep> That's more of a papercut than anything. ;)
23:37:43 <Mook_as> there's a mousethrough="never", perhaps that will help
23:39:31 <flo> Mook_as: that was very likely what I was looking for! thanks! :)
23:55:18 <flo> apparently there's a public sametime server here https://greenhouse.lotus.com/gh_next/lotusgreenhouserequests.nsf/MainDocumentSelf?openForm
23:55:26 <flo> (sametime.lotus.com)
23:55:47 <flo> I can at least go as far as receiving an "Incorrect Username/Password" error message in the account manager
23:55:47 <clokep> Oh?
23:56:48 <flo> are we landing this tonight?
23:56:53 <flo> if so we need to email translators ;)
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23:57:12 <clokep> I'd like to land it so we can get people to test it. :P
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23:57:53 <clokep> YOu think they'd give me an account if I said "I want to test an IM application for Sametime support"? :P
23:58:06 <flo> you can try
23:58:43 <flo> I filled the form with "test" in all field, except the email address where I put a jetable.org email, and the "message" field where I wrote "testing a sametime plugin" :-P
23:59:04 <flo> they promised I would receive an email shortly, but I haven't received anything :-S