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Just ask your question. 22:38:41 <zix> I have two questions: 22:38:55 <zix> 1) Is Instantbird have Java/Javascript technology inside it? 22:39:30 <flo> we have a lot of javascript code 22:39:46 <zix> 2) I'm searching for a module/add-on to securise InstantBird like OTR for Pidgin. Is there anything like that for Instantbird? 22:39:56 <zix> lot of javascript? oh ok :( 22:40:04 <flo> why ":("? 22:40:27 <zix> because i'm not a fan of java/javascript about security. 22:40:30 <zix> :) 22:40:43 <flo> sounds very strange to me. 22:41:00 <flo> poor C code is much more vulnerable than faulty JS code 22:41:01 <zix> why? 22:41:12 <zix> you're right. sure. 22:41:53 <zix> about second question, can you help me? (add-ons) 22:42:21 <flo> there's no OTR add-on for Instantbird yet. The people requesting it don't seem interested in making it happen. 22:43:13 <flo> by the way, is there anything beside the name that makes you think java and javascript are similar? 22:43:27 <zix> so there is no way actually to securise our conversations on instantbird? 22:43:38 <flo> define "secure" ;) 22:43:44 <zix> no i know it is not the same. just wrote it fast :) 22:43:54 <flo> what's your concern? Which threat are you defensing against? :) 22:44:07 <zix> encrypted. 22:44:19 <-- hunsly has quit (Ping timeout) 22:44:25 <zix> It just the base for me to encrypt my conversations, like closing the door of my appartement with a key. 22:44:36 <flo> are you afraid of being spied by the server you connect to, or by people on your own network? 22:45:16 <zix> nothing is sure on internet, so it's better to get a good security. 22:46:30 <flo> that doesn't answer my question. 22:47:20 <zix> i've answered: nothing is sure on internet. It's a question of common sens, like taking a condom for sex, a key for your appartment etc. 22:47:47 <zix> You don't encrypt anything, no vpn, no protection, no firewall etc? 22:48:18 <flo> your communications are only as secure as the weakest element in the pipeline. From my point of view, the biggest hole is the technical abilities of the average correspondent. If you encrypt your conversations, their may still be a key logger, or even another family member looking at the screen. 22:49:30 <flo> zix: I connect to the server through SSL. It's the *default* setting in Instantbird for Google Talk. You don't need any "security add-on" for that. I've no idea of how secure the technology used by the people on the receiving end of my communications are. I have to live with it. 22:49:42 <zix> sure, but what is your point of view? no security like there is no 100% sure security?... 22:50:18 <zix> ok so there is ssl made by defaut inside instantbird for xmpp? nothing to activate inside instantbird? 22:51:04 <flo> nothing to activate, it's there even for the completely clueless people. :) 22:51:12 <zix> lol ok :) 22:52:01 <zix> hope there will be a security add-on like otr for pidgin but ssl is already a good minimum thing. better than windows live messenger :) 22:52:59 <flo> I asked you if you are afraid of being spied on the network (= internet, then SSL is the right thing) or by the server (do you think Google is bad, or whatever, ...). Protecting from the server is impossible without an unbearable usability reduction cost (yes, I do want people with android phones to be able to read my messages). 22:54:00 <zix> yes google is definitly bad. but it's not about google (i don't use google talk, prefer xmpp but not inside google talk). 22:54:19 <flo> not all xmpp servers support SSL 22:54:20 <zix> i'll maybe open an xmpp server (home computing) for me) 22:54:58 <zix> yes, unfortunately... and it's for this reason that having an add-on like OTR could be good. 22:55:23 <flo> good only if you control both ends of the communication (almost like if you are talking to yourself ;)) 22:55:42 <zix> Not a fan of Android too.... :D Not open source, not honnest. Like google. 22:56:01 <flo> android not open source? 22:56:06 <zix> sure, the other person must install OTR but it's simple: you ask her to do it. 22:56:35 <zix> No, they decided, since Android 3.0 to give the source 6 months after the final releases. 22:56:43 <zix> It's their new contract. 22:57:02 <zix> But like a lot of people are still using Android... they can do it. 22:57:13 <flo> you know that requiring people to change passwords regularly for "security reasons" usually cause a significant portion of the affected people to just put a postit note on the screen with the new password, right? ;) 22:57:58 <flo> installing OTR on the computer of someone who isn't educated to understand good security practices won't give much additional security 22:58:00 <zix> I prefer Replicant. Android in 100% open source ( http://replicant.us ) like Trisquel which is based on Ubuntu but 100% really freedom software ( http://trisquel.info ) 22:58:25 <flo> but anyway, if you want to port OTR for Instantbird, you are welcome to do it and I'll definitely help if you have technical difficulties while doing so :) 22:58:37 <zix> sure, knowing practices is essential. Having add-ons is not enough. 22:59:00 <zix> I'm not a programmer, or i would do it with pleasure. :) 22:59:49 <flo> I would really like if Instantbird could detect that it is talking to another Instantbird and automatically turn on encryption in these cases. Detecting reliably the client is unfortunately not possible on most protocols. 23:00:34 <zix> yes it would be great. 23:01:01 <zix> xmpp is a great protocol, hope everybody will use it and with security add-ons inside the softwares. 23:01:30 <flo> xmpp is great for that, because of its extensibility 23:02:06 <zix> it is possible to follow twitter inside instantbird but identi.ca too like it use xmpp (or juick.com too ). 23:02:13 <flo> we had a google summer of code student this summer who rewrote the XMPP plugin to have it in JavaScript instead of the C based libpurple plugin. Our goal is to make the plugin extensible so that we can benefit from the protocol's extensibility 23:02:33 <zix> yes 23:02:34 <zix> If i unactivate the flash and javascript plugins inside instantbird, will it cause some bugs? 23:02:49 <zix> and silverlight plugin 23:02:55 <flo> you should really try to avoid confusing java and javascript 23:03:28 <flo> all these plugins are useless, you can disable them 23:03:44 <zix> yes, sorry :) 23:03:52 <zix> i mean java plugin 23:04:12 <flo> out of curiosity, is there any reason why you care so much about security? Political troubles in your country maybe? 23:05:47 <zix> no, just i know how much 1984 is here.... if you see what i mean. I have lot informations about the laws, the technics etc, and so i know that nothing is sure, but i don't think it's a reason to do nothing about security :) 23:05:48 <zix> I still didn't find THE solution for me. 23:06:17 <zix> Found Torchat ( http://code.google.com/p/torchat/ ) which is good but no voice and no video. 23:06:27 <zix> Found Retroshare but it doesn't work... 23:06:41 <flo> it seemed you are using a microsoft operating system. Seems surprising if you care that much about security ;). 23:07:22 <flo> (or is there now a silverlight plugin that decently work for a non-MS system?) 23:07:23 <zix> Yes, i know but i'm searching to change everything. It's hard to leave windows and going on an other OS from monday to tuesday. 23:07:31 <zix> It take time to find the good alternatives. 23:08:01 <zix> no, using windows, i know it's a same :D 23:08:06 <zix> shame 23:08:57 <flo> I've done that transition over the course of several months. Replacing progressively all the Windows-only software I used by cross platform software. This way I'm free to switch again if I don't like the OS I currently use 23:09:17 <zix> yes 23:09:28 <zix> i'm interested about virtualisation 23:09:36 <zix> seems to be a very good solution for me 23:09:40 <flo> Firefox, Thunderbird, Instantbird (Pidgin at the time, but which doesn't work well on Mac), OpenOffice and a few others are all good for that ;) 23:09:51 <zix> yes :) 23:10:17 <zix> i'm searching to have free software, but it's still a little hard 23:10:20 <flo> yes, keep a virtualized Windows inside your linux installation, so that the very few tasks that can't be done natively and don't work with wine don't require a reboot 23:10:24 <zix> and interested about free hardware too. 23:10:45 <zix> i was thinking to use WINE or REACTOS about Windows things. 23:12:34 <flo> a real Windows in a virtual machine is more helpful for some tasks (typically, helping over the phone a friend/family member who still uses Windows, to find the exact names of menu items that should be clicked, ...) 23:13:01 <zix> sure, but i really want to eliminate windows once for all. 23:13:31 <zix> there is Qemu too. 23:13:34 <flo> get rich, buy some bombs and drop them on redmont then :-P 23:13:43 <zix> :D yes, i would. 23:13:54 <zix> Steve Jobs is in train to leave. Good thing. 23:14:05 <zix> Which Stallman could take the control! 23:14:08 <flo> honestly, the only frequent usage I have of Windows is to check reports of Windows-only Instantbird bugs and try to debug them. 23:14:09 <zix> It would be great! :D 23:14:18 <zix> yes :) 23:18:01 <zix> You are a programmer of instantbird? 23:18:11 <flo> I created it. 23:18:19 <zix> oh ok. :) 23:18:24 <zix> hard work :) 23:21:42 <flo> vicnet: it seems http://instantbird.org/fr/ could benefit from some proof reading ;) 23:21:51 <zix> It would be a good thing to implement inside instantbird some serversnames (with ssl) to create an xmpp login inside instantbird. Coccinella is doing it, PSI and PSI + too. I see the gmail server is here by default but having a list of servers would be good. 23:23:00 <flo> that would be nice yes. Low priority though, as I think we can reasonably assume that users who have a non-gtalk/facebook xmpp account know what they are doing and are likely able to type the servername 23:23:46 <flo> zix: by the way, if you like what we are doing and want to help/join us, the page I just gave vicnet a link to lists lots of ways to get involved. You may be interested in reading it ;) 23:24:26 <zix> sure, but it would help beginners to understand the differents aspects of xmpp. Lots if people are using facebook chat and gtalk without knowing xmpp/jabber. It's a paradox which is sad i think. 23:24:44 <zix> Sure, i will watch it 23:25:15 <zix> But, are you english, american? 23:25:38 <flo> I don't see that as sad. xmpp is a technologies. Lots of people are on the web without knowing what http means. I don't see that as sad but as success of the technology that is simple and reliable enough that it can be used by everybody :) 23:25:46 <flo> I'm french. 23:25:54 <zix> mais je suis francais aussi 23:25:54 <zix> mdr 23:26:02 <zix> on parle anglais depuis tout à l'heure! :D lol 23:26:09 <flo> it's usually better to talk here in french so that everybody can understand 23:26:19 <flo> errr, English of course 23:26:26 <zix> ok :) lol 23:26:52 <flo> we are not the only french people here ;) 23:27:39 <zix> I'm using the http://free.korben.info/index.php/Clients_de_messagerie_instantanée page to try to find the good client for xmpp and sip ( free.korben.info/index.php/Téléphonie_(Fixe,_Mobile,_Internet)_&_Co ) 23:27:49 <zix> Yes, english is the base. 23:28:12 <vicnet> flo: I'll take a look at it tonight ;) 23:28:22 <flo> vicnet: cool, thanks :) 23:29:02 <vicnet> although "tonight" has already passed for you, pretty much 23:29:05 <vicnet> :D 23:30:21 <flo> zix: maybe you can add Instantbird to that wiki page? :) 23:33:10 <zix> i wanted to do it 23:34:01 <zix> but as you maybe read, on the top of the page it is wrote that only the messengers which have enough security can be put on it 23:34:01 <flo> :) 23:34:20 <zix> cause there are a lot of messengers and the wiki korben is about internet, free software and security. 23:36:12 <flo> zix: "TLS/SSL"? ;) 23:37:58 <zix> sure, but a lot of messengers have tls/ssl for xmpp, and korben listing all these messengers would make a very very long list, like on http://wiki.jabberfr.org/ 23:38:11 <zix> and wiki jabber already exists :) 23:38:26 <zix> and i think instantbird is on wiki.jabberfr.org 23:40:34 <zix> found: http://wiki.jabberfr.org/Instantbird 23:41:15 <zix> Very empty :( i didn't see it. 23:43:12 <flo> I wonder how come http://wiki.jabberfr.org/Clients lists "Digsby" for Linux/Mac. 23:45:05 <flo> someone should get Instantbird added to the list on http://xmpp.org/xmpp-software/clients/ 23:45:12 <flo> but anyway, it's late. Good night! :) 23:58:22 <zix> sorry i leave my computer. 23:58:38 <zix> but instantbird is listed