#instantbird log on 08 20 2011

All times are UTC.

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10:50:06 <igorko> clokep i dont see thise strings in english faq
10:50:17 <igorko> those*
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12:18:33 <flo> igorko: apparently something got out of sync on the en-US repo :(.
12:18:38 <flo> The changeset on the website is https://hg.instantbird.org/websites/www.instantbird.com/rev/8a2c82745808
12:19:39 <igorko> пще ш
12:19:42 <igorko> got it
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13:37:04 <Mic> Hi
13:39:01 <clokep> Good morning Mic!
13:39:35 <Mic> Goor morning, clokep. I hope you aren't too hangover after this bottle of gin and a keg of whatsoever ;)
13:40:15 <clokep> Hahah, more of a pizza hang over.
13:40:28 <clokep> I did have a chocolate cake shot though, which was intersting.
13:46:14 * flo has finished putting back all the glasses on the AMI :)
13:46:17 <Mic> https://wiki.instantbird.org/File:GreyscaleConvContent.png
13:46:43 <Mic> flo: you don't need to take them out for cleaning, did you know? :P
13:47:07 <Mic> Too bad, seems the wiki didn't like my css copy/paste on the comment for this file
13:47:48 <flo> with brand new sliders
13:48:10 <clokep> Mic: YOu can put &lt;pre&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt; tags around code &lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/pre&gt;.
13:48:14 <clokep> I htink that's the proper combination at least.
13:48:21 <flo> I probably won't have fresh air in the ear any more while driving :)
13:48:33 <Mic> Thanks :)
13:48:47 <flo> and the sound of vibrating glasses should be dramatically reduced :)
13:49:59 <clokep> I can't imagine vibrating glass being a good sound.
13:51:00 <Mic> I guess I'd always be afraid that something breaks while driving if I heard such a sound constantly
13:52:05 <Mic> I think it's obvious from the image what I did.. not sure if it makes sense though since we already have the icon on the buddy image for this
13:52:41 <Mic> And it's a bit overeager .. even selected text will have a grey color (independently from the system colour)
13:55:57 <clokep> It'd probably be nicer to just partially gray the background color (maybe even of only that user?)
14:01:20 <Mic> Styling messages of a certain user isn't easily possible.
14:03:04 <Mic> I tried adding a different class for each user once though (ie turned the user name into something that is a valid css class name)
14:03:58 <Mic> That would at least allow to identify blocks that contain the user's message (a rather bad solution but I didn't have a better idea)
14:07:22 <Mic> The screenshot on the wiki was for a different case: it was supposed to show that you can't interact in this conversation any more (you left the channel, the other user is offline, or the account disconnected).
14:07:45 <Mic> It would have to take into account the possibility to send offline messages (i.e. the user being offline is no longer a problem)
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14:14:36 <clokep> True.
14:14:47 <clokep> And I know you can't style certain users...there's a bug about it in fact. ;)
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14:51:02 <Mic> Bye ... no gin, but wine at the riverside is good enough ;)
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15:21:01 <clokep> Hmmm...sounds like a date. ;)
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16:48:28 <deOmega> good day :)
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19:48:43 <deOmega> after looking at the  progress made by Firefox , Thunderbird... I am wondering how long it will be before traditional themes are a thing of the past.
19:49:21 <flo> deOmega: hello :)
19:49:30 <deOmega> I am finding myself less and less intrigued by what themes offer over the basic  glass features
19:49:36 <deOmega> Hi flo
19:50:00 <flo> + with a release every 6 weeks, they will be extremely painful to maintain ;)
19:50:22 <deOmega> true :)
19:50:31 <flo> + there's persona for the users who just need to feel that their Firefox is not like the Firefox of their neighbors
19:50:54 <deOmega> I like that option and that really does all one needs
19:51:08 <flo> feeling it's different?
19:51:38 <deOmega> NO, i mean what the personas offer
19:51:51 <deOmega> ha, was not yelling there
19:52:36 <deOmega> speaking of which... i have two  questions out of curiousity:
19:53:45 <deOmega> Mic and flo:  Is there a chance of giving an option to have full glass at the top of IB?  I know he had it in the early trials but then padded the area.
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19:54:10 <flo> is that for the conversation window or the buddy list?
19:54:17 <deOmega> 2.  how far is it from the possibility of iB being compatible with personas
19:54:40 <deOmega> Both. C window and buddy list
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19:56:38 <flo> deOmega: for the conversation window, I think it's https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=771
19:56:42 <instantbot> Bug 771 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Make aero conversation tabs look like Firefox 4 tabs
19:56:59 <flo> for the buddy list, I think the padded area is needed for readability
19:57:32 <flo> not completely sure. I don't use Win7 (+ my Win7 VM doesn't support Aero :-D).
19:59:05 <flo> deOmega: about personas. It's probably relatively easy technically. Just needs someone seriously motivated and with some decent CSS skills to look at it.
19:59:07 <deOmega> btw flo.  on a different topic.  I started trying to produce a chart of my liking representing the downloads history, but i must say, it was turning out to be more work than I thought it would be.  I will revisit it at some point.
20:00:01 <deOmega> OK, Thank you
20:00:28 <flo> (it's hard to be motivated for something one will never use)
20:01:31 <deOmega> regarding readability: I thought of that but it seems that Fidelity has  worked around that.  let me see is i can post what i mean
20:01:56 <deOmega> LOL.  firefox, not Fidelity
20:02:14 <deOmega> My brain is mush more often than not
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20:03:57 <clokep> The difference between glass for us and Firefox is we wanted to put actual text on the glass, which is why Mic put that padding there...so it was readbla.e
20:04:47 <flo> clokep: except on the conversation window ;à
20:04:51 <flo> *;)
20:05:02 <clokep> Yes, well I was referring to the contact list.
20:05:08 <clokep> :)
20:05:16 <clokep> The conversation window I'd like to have full glass behind the tabs...
20:05:29 * flo wonders if he will have some help to review Varuna's code
20:06:15 <clokep> I can help you review Varuna's code, yes. ;) If that's what you're asking.
20:06:50 <flo> you can probably find at least half of my nits, yes :)
20:07:02 <flo> I'll still need to read and understand it all
20:08:03 <deOmega> http://i54.tinypic.com/wl6e03.jpg
20:08:06 <clokep> Right,
20:08:09 <deOmega> there sis what i mean
20:08:24 <deOmega> you know, i really hate there codes one has to put in all over teh place.
20:08:54 <clokep> deOmega: Doesn't like tabs on top apparently. ;)
20:09:31 <deOmega> haha
20:10:05 <deOmega> because i go through my tabs more frequently than i do my bookmarks etc, so they are in closer reach
20:10:16 <deOmega> more in focus
20:13:14 <deOmega> so, i realize they  basically have a strip where there will be text
20:13:41 <clokep> Hmm...yeah I guess they do.
20:13:47 <clokep> I'm downloading Varuna's code
20:13:56 <clokep> (Well pulling the repo again.)
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20:15:14 <deOmega> they did same for tbird
20:16:25 <flo> there's no way to add a buddy, is there?
20:17:33 <clokep> In XMPP-JS? I haven't tried running it yet.
20:17:55 <clokep> Wondering if I should read part of the spec or just assume I know the vague gist of it. ;)
20:17:57 <flo> I'm reading the code ;)
20:18:53 <flo> I've read http://www.amazon.com/XMPP-Definitive-Real-Time-Applications-Technologies/dp/059652126X/ a year or so ago.
20:20:37 <clokep> What animal is that? :P
20:20:48 <flo> an XMPP? :-P
20:21:07 <deOmega> by the way, i thought that bug regarding tabs was handled.  I figured the tabs are now like Firefox.  Good thing i am not a developer or else so many things would be undone .. i mean, fixed :).
20:21:09 <flo> it's not an instantbird, that's for sure! :-D
20:22:16 <deOmega> flo: do you have a pc you would like to install windows 7 aero on?
20:22:44 <deOmega> to experience the full effect of it?
20:22:46 <flo> deOmega: certainly not :-D
20:23:10 <deOmega> ok :(
20:23:13 <flo> deOmega: Windows on fullscreen has a vomiting effect on me ;)
20:23:29 <deOmega> oh wow
20:23:32 <flo> I don't need to experience the full effect of it, keeping it in a window is better :-)
20:23:32 <clokep> flo: jsProtoHelper diff: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/902
20:23:44 <deOmega> Are macs really THAT good?
20:24:08 <clokep> It all depends on what you're comfortable with IMO.
20:24:41 <deOmega> have you had experience with both  clokep?
20:25:26 <flo> deOmega: on the macbook the OS tends to take about 60 days to get so screwed up with me using it that it's better to reboot. On Windows that was about daily at the time I could still stand it...
20:25:27 <clokep> deOmega: Yes, most of the girls I hang out w/ use Macs, so I use them on occasion.
20:26:03 <clokep> I do have to say MacBook Pros have an awesome trackpad...
20:26:10 <clokep> Except I don't use trackpads. ;)
20:26:23 <flo> clokep: because you don't have a good trackpad ;)
20:26:29 <clokep> Cause I like trackpoints.
20:26:34 <clokep> ThinkPads FTW.
20:26:46 <deOmega> I have not had such experiences.  I keep running from apple products, dunno why but i get a trapped feeling..  Wife bought me an Itouch when they first came out and i  had her return it.
20:26:53 <flo> just because of the trackpad + the awesome power plug, I wouldn't consider any other hardware for a laptop
20:27:05 <deOmega> lol
20:27:17 <clokep> "awesome power plug" the magnetic thing?
20:27:32 <flo> yeah
20:27:42 <deOmega> Well, I am curious again i guess
20:27:46 <flo> can't count the number of times I would have destroyed the laptop already without that
20:27:51 <clokep> I have no problem with MacBooks (and Mac Minis are pretty awesome too), but I wouldn't go near anything that runs iOS (iPads, iPhones, iPods, etc.)
20:28:19 <clokep> Yes, that's a pretty neat feature. :) Unfortunately the other side of the plug  doesn't fit well in many plugs (at least in the US), it always overlaps the adjacent outlet.
20:29:24 <deOmega> This is alll interesting to me
20:29:56 <flo> clokep: that plug is so US-centric (the European plug is a lot worse: not foldable)
20:30:18 <clokep> :( So it's a big block + a big plug sticking off of it? That's kind of gross.
20:30:58 <clokep> Looks like jsProtoHelper just needs to be updated, I don't see any changes, but there might be some...
20:31:05 <flo> looks like this: http://i.ebayimg.com/18/!B6NP%28E!!Wk~$%28KGrHqN,!ikEyeUS6y!IBMwob9m,Ww~~0_35.JPG
20:31:26 <flo> so I use the power cord instead (http://img.alibaba.com/wsphoto/v0/469390263/EU-plug-volex-power-cord-for-macbook.jpg)
20:31:29 <clokep> Bah. Can you get the ones that have a cord on them?
20:31:37 <clokep> Ah, yea. Those are nice. :)
20:31:54 <flo> not as good to put in the backpack
20:32:09 <flo> but the small one is just unusable in most power outlets
20:35:14 <flo> clokep: I can't notice any change either, except the useless comment at line 353 of your pastebin
20:35:45 <clokep> Ah, yes.
20:35:47 <deOmega> ok, i need to get off of this thing for the day.  Have a wonderful weekend guys.
20:35:58 <clokep> I'm trying to get a diff on the socket code...but line endings are different and it's giving me garbage.
20:36:05 <clokep> Bye deOmega!
20:36:15 <flo> deOmega: have a nice week-end :)
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20:36:43 <flo> clokep: do you have the dos2unix tool available on your command line?
20:37:24 <clokep> No, doesn't seem to be part of MozillaBuild.
20:37:31 <clokep> My editor should be able to do it...
20:49:24 <clokep> What's a good way to make comments? Just in an email?
20:53:47 <flo> I don't know :(
20:53:54 <flo> email is always acceptable
20:53:59 <clokep> Alright. :-/
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20:54:12 <clokep> I just feel like there must be a better way to review code. :-D
20:54:22 <flo> it maybe possible to use the github stuff for that, but I'm not sure of how we can find them later, especially if the code changes/moves
20:54:53 <flo> I share that feeling
20:58:20 <flo> clokep: do you remember if he has replied to my request for a list of things supported by the libpurple plugin but not by his code?
20:59:16 <flo> if he did, it's in a different email thread. In this thread I can only find "I'll look into this and reply tonight."
20:59:40 <clokep> flo: This is all he said http://pastebin.instantbird.com/903
20:59:50 <clokep> Oh, you're right.
20:59:55 <clokep> He didn't give a comparison to libpurple.
20:59:59 <DGMurdockIII> hey guys i heard you talking about talking about wanting to try to figer out how to tell if a gtalk person is on cell
21:00:31 <flo> talking about talking about wanting to try? wow :-P
21:00:43 <clokep> DGMurdockIII: I filed a bug about it.
21:00:49 <clokep> If you have information please add it to the bug. :)
21:01:09 <DGMurdockIII> link me to the bug please
21:01:34 <DGMurdockIII> i can help you guys test its i have gtalk on android
21:02:01 <clokep> bug 972
21:02:04 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=972 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Mark GTalk users on Android as "mobile"
21:02:08 <clokep> A bunch of people do.
21:02:18 <clokep> But no one did any work on it, just noting that it /doesn't/ work. :-D
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21:08:43 <DGMurdockIII> ok
21:15:44 <clokep> We probably can't do anything until we have a separate XMPP protocol anyway.
21:18:07 <flo> may not be so far away
21:23:32 <clokep> There's like no comments. :-X
21:26:48 <flo> high level comments are the harder to make, they come only once you have figured it all out, not when just doing a quick pass over the code :(
21:27:48 <clokep> Mmhmm.
21:43:27 * BinaryOutcast is now known as MattATobin
21:45:44 * clokep is going to need to look up some basic info on XMPP.
21:48:46 <DGMurdockIII> Google rolled out a new version of their servers that changed the way they use XML namespaces within XMPP
21:49:18 <DGMurdockIII> 2(clokep2): http://xmpp.org/xmpp-protocols/rfcs/
21:52:37 <DGMurdockIII> http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Google%20Mobile/thread?tid=7bd93c283e6fb7db&hl=en
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21:57:48 <clokep> Ah that's pretty lame. I didn't realize the client was a field in XMPP. :(
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22:02:44 <Mic> What was the thing with the Windows look by the way?
22:02:59 <clokep> What?
22:04:02 <Mic> It seems you discussed the look on Windows today (Glass behind tabs, on the Contact list, ..)
22:05:04 <Mic> Was there anything interesting? It seems to be mixed with all the other conversations going on..
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22:06:23 <clokep> Ah, not really. deOmega was just wondering if we could do the full glass I guess.
22:09:07 <Mic> I'd really like to have the Firefox look (like the Add-on manager has it)
22:11:14 <Mic> Glass behind the tabs, babyblue-gradients on the tabs + conv-top-info, statusbars styled like the add-on bar of Firefox, Instantbird-button to get rid of the menu, status-area styled with the babyblue gradient and rounded corners on the top (like the top of a tab..)
22:13:36 <DGMurdockIII> 2(clokep2): I posted that info on that forum on the bug report
22:17:17 <clokep> I saw, thanks.
22:19:30 <DGMurdockIII> http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0286.pdf
22:19:57 <DGMurdockIII> about XEP-0286: XMPP on Mobile Devices
22:20:05 <DGMurdockIII> that what that pdf is
22:22:09 <Mic> Oh and .. can we recruit someone for CSS work, please? ;)
22:24:06 <Mic> How different from Firefox does the IB themes look on OSs other than Windows?
22:24:28 <DGMurdockIII> i thnk that would be possable just post a request on the blog
22:24:33 <DGMurdockIII> http://www.deepdarc.com/2008/02/14/mobile-xmpp/
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22:26:12 <DGMurdockIII> 2(clokep2): http://www.deepdarc.com/2008/02/14/mobile-xmpp/
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22:39:13 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 973 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
22:39:15 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=973 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Adopt Firefox Standard/Strata 'babyblue' theme
22:39:40 <Mic> So we don't forget about this.. feedback is welcome of course.
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22:53:01 <Mic> nn
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22:59:36 <flo> Pidgin 2.10 has been released apparently
22:59:55 <clokep> I see.
22:59:58 <clokep> Not out for Windows yet.
23:00:03 <clokep> I wonder what the changes were...
23:00:43 <jefm> you can check the changelog in viewmtn
23:01:05 <jefm> It's mostly bug fixes and minor tweaks
23:02:54 <jefm> http://developer.pidgin.im/viewmtn/revision/file/93051ef2d941be32785c5fbb788ae3b0a0935b4d/ChangeLog
23:03:33 <clokep> Yeah I was on the changelog on the wiki: http://developer.pidgin.im/wiki/ChangeLog
23:10:09 <clokep> Hey flo. I'm getting link errors when trying to build SIPE, any chance you could skim over my Makefile and ensure I'm not doing something really stupid? :)
23:10:48 <flo> can you pastebin the errors?
23:10:54 <flo> + the makefile
23:11:11 <clokep> Yup, of course. :)
23:13:08 <clokep> Errors: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/904 and Makefile: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/905
23:14:24 <jefm> I've yet to get instantbird to build on freebsd, do you know anyone that has
23:15:29 <clokep> jefm: I haven't heard of anyone trying (at least in the last year or so), but flo would know if anyone tried before that. :)
23:16:07 <clokep> And I'm sure people will be wiling to help...people who udnerstand building (not me. :P)
23:16:16 <jefm> I had to modify client.py because some things work differently
23:16:42 <flo> jefm: I did in 2008 I think.
23:16:56 * clokep wonders if Instantbird, Mozilla or libpurple is failing to compile...
23:17:01 <jefm> I couldn't get the mozilla stuff to compile
23:18:02 <jefm> There's a lot of patches that get applied to get xulrunner (or whatever it is now) to work on freebsd, would it be possible to use 
23:18:08 <flo> the build system is a fork of the thunderbird build system, so if Thunderbird compiles, you can probably find inspiration there for what needs to be changed
23:18:25 <jefm> ah good
23:19:53 <flo> clokep: "EXTRA_LIBS      += -liconv -lgmime" isn't a correct syntax for Windows
23:20:08 <jefm> I don't suppose there's a way to use an already installed libpurple and whatever mozilla libraries
23:20:23 <clokep> flo: What is the correct syntax then? :-D
23:20:33 <clokep> I thought I found that in another makefile. :-/
23:20:42 <flo> do iconv.lib and gmime.lib exist?
23:20:59 <clokep> Yes.
23:21:22 <clokep> They're under objdir/purple/libraries/gmime/gmime.lib and .../libraries/iconv/iconv.lib
23:21:58 <flo> ok, then see how libxml2 is used :)
23:22:42 <flo> jefm: already installed libpurple, no. You can use the existing xulrunner (but you need to be careful to have a version of the instantbird source code that matches the xulrunner version)
23:23:03 <jefm> that might be easier
23:23:25 <flo> maybe :)
23:23:30 <jefm> is there some reading somewhere about that?
23:23:37 <flo> back in 2008 it worked almost out of the box on FreeBSD
23:23:40 <clokep> flo: Like http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/libpurple/protocols/jabber/Makefile.in#45 ?
23:24:39 <jefm> hmm
23:25:00 <flo> clokep: I'm afraid it would rather be http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/libpurple/Makefile.in#69
23:25:14 <clokep> Ah, I see.
23:25:25 <clokep> That's a lot uglier. :P
23:27:14 <flo> bah... that's just some sugar above: SHARED_LIBRARY_LIBS += ../libraries/glib/glib.lib ../libraries/xml2/xml2.lib
23:29:35 <clokep> Hah, yeah.
23:30:05 <clokep> Now I'm getting make[3]: *** No rule to make target `../libraries/gmime/gmime.lib', needed by `sipe.dll'.  Stop.
23:30:53 <clokep> But gmime.lib already exists.
23:32:09 --> deOmega has joined #instantbird
23:34:37 <deOmega> hi MIc.  I have uploaded a few things for you, just in case they can spark any ideas.  The first one is an idea how  the contact list can  be 'glassified' :)   I assume u would use the same semitransparent background you have around 'file tools help'
23:35:03 <deOmega> http://i54.tinypic.com/15pjvhx.jpg
23:36:03 <flo> clokep: replace ../ with ../../../
23:36:33 <deOmega>  the next two are of Firefox.  I have  my tabs on the bottom so I do not get the baby blue... and this is how it looks compared to tabs on the bottom that shows the baby blue:    http://i55.tinypic.com/2mngcvl.jpg
23:36:34 <flo> (you are in libpurple/protocols/sipe/)
23:36:44 <deOmega> sorry flo
23:37:29 --> werwolf has joined #instantbird
23:37:58 <deOmega> looked quiet here before decided to post.  Anyway, i do not know what Mic may get from all of this noise, but hopefully it  amounts to useful input
23:38:51 <-- deOmega has left #instantbird ()
23:41:49 <clokep> AH, maekse sense. :)
23:43:27 <clokep> Hmm...the linker errors are back.
23:43:30 * clokep needs to wash dishes.
23:49:18 <clokep> Yeah flo. Getting those same linker errors again. :-/
23:50:08 <DGMurdockIII> the irc changes look nice
23:50:55 <flo> clokep: the same, or fewer of them?
23:51:03 <clokep> More of them I think. ;)
23:51:11 <flo> nice :-P
23:51:21 <clokep> One second.
23:51:25 <clokep> Need to dump it to a file.
23:51:46 <DGMurdockIII> Could not read chrome manifest file 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Instantbird\extensions\{972ce4c6-7e08-4474-a285-3208198ce6fd}\chrome.manifest'.
23:51:55 <clokep> Yes, more of them. :)
23:52:12 <flo> an, we should try to remember to push the fix to get rid of that warning before the next release :)
23:53:07 <clokep> diff of the make logs: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/906
23:53:14 <clokep> Hah, do we even have a bug filed on it?
23:54:31 <DGMurdockIII> instead of just geting rid of thw warning can you just fix the problem
23:56:31 <clokep> getting rid of the warning == fixing the problem
23:58:52 <flo> DGMurdockIII: there's no real problem, that warning is just noise
23:59:24 <DGMurdockIII> ok
23:59:35 <DGMurdockIII> then what about
23:59:39 <flo> clokep: so that got rid of a significant part of your errors ;)
23:59:44 <DGMurdockIII> update.instantbird.org : server does not support RFC 5746, see CVE-2009-3555