#instantbird log on 07 22 2011

All times are UTC.

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00:34:35 <GeekShadow> anyone alive ?
00:36:10 <Mook_as> I'm just about to go home, does that count? ;)
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00:45:12 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 939 to DUPLICATE of bug 926.
00:45:14 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=939 enh, --, ---, nobody, RESO DUPLICATE, Make New Windows Pop-Under Instead Of Pop-Up
00:45:15 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=926 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Suppress new message window.
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11:44:37 <clokep_work> Hello
11:53:13 <clokep_work> So what's the setting name for that guy to be able to change his GTalk port? ;) I'm guessing it's options.port, but who knows if libpurple did something that made sense...
11:53:57 <clokep_work> I wonder if we should add back the advanced options for that and Facebook...after all they are the /advanced/ options, which should only be touched by advanced people. ;)
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11:59:40 <clokep_work> Ah, I found it: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/libpurple/protocols/jabber/libxmpp.c#296
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19:24:59 <LiquidRain> So how do I get out of a webpage that's opened in an IM window?
19:25:55 <LiquidRain> and can I change it so that sites open in my browser?  is there something in about:config for that?
19:35:49 <Mook_as> LiquidRain: IIRC, that's a bug and it _should_ open in your browser
19:36:11 <LiquidRain> Haha.  Fair enough.  I'll right-click+copy instead for now.
19:36:12 <Mook_as> gah, lxr.i.o isn't mxr, I can't search for the string "array" in all idl files
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20:13:33 <clokep> LiquidRain: It's a bug that's already been fixed. :)
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20:13:49 <clokep> Mook_as: Yes, it's not. :( We should bug Even/flo about that.
20:14:29 <Mook_as> bug bug bug. bug bug.
20:14:45 <Mook_as> (it sounded a lot more interesting in my head.)
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20:15:19 <clokep> Sounds to me like someone is ready for the weekend. ;)
20:16:14 <Mook_as> oh, that was on Wednesday.
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20:36:51 <Mic> Maybe I figured out the problem with the not reconnecting accounts :)
20:37:25 <Mic> (after standby/energy saving mode)
20:37:31 <clokep> Oh? What'd you do?
20:39:05 <Mic> Or maybe I didn't, I need to check and I better do that without the headache I currently have ;)
20:40:18 <Mic> bye
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21:31:57 <myk> instantbird has a disorienting habit of moving conversations very slightly upwards over time
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21:59:11 <clokep> myk: It's actually done on purpose to show the passage of time, http://blog.instantbird.org/n42-introducing-time-bubbles.html
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22:01:26 <myk> clokep: hmm, interesting
22:01:46 <myk> clokep: i like the idea of indicating the time between messages by putting space between them
22:02:04 <myk> clokep: but it isn't necessary for messages to inch up the screen to do that
22:02:12 <clokep> How are you to do it then?
22:02:20 <clokep> I find it a little strange if I'm staring at my IM window.
22:02:29 <clokep> But I don't really ever do that, so it's not a big deal to me.
22:02:31 <myk> clokep: when the next message comes in, add the right amount of space above it
22:02:54 <clokep> But it also shows you the amount of time since the last message was received. :)
22:03:02 <myk> clokep: since the previous message already jumps upward at that point, it doesn't create any additional movement to add the space at that point
22:03:53 <Mook_as> oh, that's the actual message moving, and it's not just me going crazy
22:04:11 <clokep> Right, but you'd lose the information about how much time occurred between the last message and "now".
22:04:15 <myk> clokep: yes
22:04:27 <clokep> (Btw I'm not saying I love it either, just making sure you understand the concept properly, which you do. :))
22:04:55 <clokep> I know someone suggested that you just leave it until 5 minutes, at which point you pop in the 5 minute time and update that.
22:06:37 <myk> i do see the logic of moving messages up over time
22:07:03 <myk> although it's strange that it happens over the course of about 30 seconds or so, after which there is no movement until the five minute mark
22:07:38 <myk> for me the problem is just that it makes me nauseous
22:08:03 <clokep> It happens in the beginning faster than slower, it's actually logarithmic in time.
22:08:14 <clokep> Nauseous?
22:08:19 <myk> yes, nauseous
22:08:20 <clokep> You said you keep your window maximized, right?
22:08:23 <myk> yes
22:08:48 <clokep> Right, I've never tried it maximized, I could see that would be quite a bit more distracting.
22:09:03 <clokep> (There's a version of theme that doesn't do it, if you're interested.)
22:10:36 * Mook_as wonders if the animation is done with css
22:10:37 <myk> hmm, maybe i'll try Simple: Dark
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22:12:22 <myk> clokep: i know it sounds strange, and i'm quite willing to believe that i am an aberration, but small movements like that actually sicken me; i'm not speaking metaphorically when i use the word nausea to describe them :-)
22:13:00 <clokep> myk: I believe you. :) You might want to check out Simple Bubbles: https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/274 it's quite literally the theme before we added the time bubbles aspect to it.
22:13:22 <clokep> Mook_as: It's done w/ JavaScript I believe, Weren't CSS Animations not available until 5.0?
22:13:41 <Mook_as> clokep: oh, right, ib is (also) on 4
22:13:52 <myk> clokep: thanks, i'll give it a shot
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22:13:59 <clokep> Nightlies are on 5.0 currently.
22:14:13 <Mook_as> ah. then we can't be gecko-version-buddies ;)
22:14:24 <clokep> Komodo is 4.0 now?
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22:14:43 * clokep always finds it annoying that the About menu doesn't say. ;)
22:14:52 <Mook_as> 7.0a2 and later are gecko 2.0, yeah
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22:15:31 <Mook_as> I'm sure you can find a navigator.userAgent somehow ;)
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22:15:46 <clokep> Yeah, but I don't want to put that much effort in.
22:15:51 <Mook_as> hehe
22:15:55 <clokep> I'm trying to motivate myself to re-read the CTCP spec.
22:16:07 <Mook_as> ah. good luck
22:16:07 <clokep> But it being >100 F outside is making it difficult.
22:16:13 <myk> clokep: has anyone given any thought to a dark version of simple bubbles? i'm a big fan of dark themes
22:16:34 <myk> also, relative timestamps!
22:17:37 <clokep> myk: Not that I know of. I think we'd accept a variant that is dark though if someone is interested. ;)
22:17:48 <clokep> You could try filing a bug and maybe someone would be interested in doing it.
22:17:56 <clokep> (As you said you don't hjave much time.)
22:18:27 <myk> clokep: good idea, will do!
22:19:39 <clokep> What's the "proper" way to take arbitrary text (that might contain HTML) and make it into text? (I.e. essentially replace > and < with &gt; and &lt;)
22:19:46 <clokep> Is it really just to do the two replacements?
22:21:05 <Mook_as> I'm going to guess you don't want str.split("").map(function(c) "&#" + c.charCodeAt(0) + ";")
22:24:16 <clokep> Probably not. :)
22:26:29 <werwolf> not sure now, is not enought to use <pre> ?
22:26:48 <werwolf> or <code>
22:27:28 <clokep> werwolf: Not for display, I actually need to escape it since I need HTML to come through as plain text for IRC...but then add in my own HTML for the escape chars that exist.
22:27:59 <Mook_as> see what cz does? they manage to do something...
22:28:02 <DGMurdockIII> http://www.dontfeartheinternet.com/
22:28:20 <werwolf> clokep: they use use &lt; &gt; only
22:28:50 <werwolf> then
22:29:07 <werwolf> which are tags delimiter
22:29:42 <clokep> Mook_as: Yeah, I could do that. :) I try to not look at their source, it's so hard to read. :-X
22:29:42 <werwolf> &lt;
22:29:50 <clokep> werwolf: Yes, I think that's all I have to do, thanks for agreeing. :)
22:30:06 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 940 filed by myk@mozilla.org.
22:30:08 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=940 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, dark version of (Simple) Bubbles theme
22:30:11 <werwolf> but it comes over as & l t ;
22:30:16 <werwolf> not as <
22:30:22 <clokep> Right, because the & is escaped to &amp;
22:30:42 <werwolf> then use search and replace
22:31:21 <myk> before i file a bug about relative timestamps, i'd be interested in what the relevant decision-makers think
22:31:30 <myk> i suppose that's flo 
22:33:52 <clokep> myk: I'm not sure what you mean, but probably flo would be the one.
22:34:24 <myk> clokep: a relative timestamp is one like: "a few seconds ago", "five minutes ago", "three hours ago", and "yesterday"
22:34:50 <myk> clokep: usually, when i look at a timestamp, it's to see how long ago a message was written
22:35:06 <myk> clokep: currently, determining that requires me to do math
22:35:29 <clokep> Yes, flo was attempting to show that via the distance between bubbles so you wouldn't need to do math.
22:35:39 <myk> clokep: first, i look at the timestamp; second, i look at the current time (sometimes i skip this step if i know the current time already); and third, i calculate the difference
22:35:50 <clokep> (And it does give relative time stamps there, not sure what the simple bubbles are)
22:36:25 <myk> clokep: simple bubbles gives me absolute timestamps like 15:28:01
22:36:36 <myk> clokep: but distance between bubbles doesn't actually work for this purpose
22:36:53 <clokep> Why not?
22:36:56 <myk> clokep: because i'm not trying to tell the difference between two messages
22:37:06 <myk> clokep: i'm trying to tell the difference between one message and "now"
22:37:19 <clokep> Ah, I see.
22:37:32 <clokep> Unfortunately doing it that way means that you have to constantly be updating each message's time.
22:37:58 <clokep> But it's certainly a common action to do I would think.
22:38:03 <myk> clokep: yes, or, since the Bubbles themes don't show the time by default, only calculate the timestamp when showing it
22:38:08 <clokep> flo is away right now so he won't be answering you I don't think. ;)
22:38:22 <clokep> The showing right now is CSS though I think.
22:39:07 <myk> clokep: sure, although that's just an implementation detail; step one is to figure out what the appearance/behavior should be; step two is to figure out how to implement it!
22:39:17 <clokep> Yup.
22:39:54 <clokep> :)
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22:40:08 <clokep> flo does read the logs though so he'll probably get back to you.
22:43:48 <clokep> (Btw I hope you don't think I'm being argumentative at all, just trying to understand the reason behind you want things instead of just saying "Oh, we can do that.")
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22:45:51 <myk> clokep: don't worry, i'm quite familiar with good UX design, so i know that you can't just assume that users know what they want or what's best for them :-)
22:47:14 <clokep> myk: Good, afterall I don't want to seem like we don't love our users. ;)
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22:47:48 <myk> clokep: to the contrary, you guys are great about responding to user questions here in this channel
22:48:19 <clokep> Thanks, we try. :)
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23:32:36 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com added attachment 754 to bug 758.
23:32:37 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 754 on bug 758.
23:32:38 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=758 min, --, 1.1a1, clokep, RESO FIXED, Clean up jsProtoHelper
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23:44:19 <Mook_as> you added a patch to a closed bug? :)
23:45:05 <clokep> Yes. :P
23:45:27 * clokep tries to keep the bug population under control.
23:45:55 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com cleared the Resolution 'FIXED' from bug 758.
23:45:56 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=758 min, --, 1.1a1, clokep, REOP, Clean up jsProtoHelper
23:45:58 <clokep> Don't want them to proliferate too much.
23:46:15 <clokep> Speaking of which...we should probably start taking bets on when we'll reach 1k. ;)
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23:48:26 <Mook_as> with the way you're reusing them, 2015? :p
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23:52:07 <clokep> Well that and Mic and I could pretty much decide since like 1/2 of the bugs are filed by one of us. :P
23:54:36 <clokep> OK...well only 347 out of 940.
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