#instantbird log on 06 29 2011

All times are UTC.

00:19:34 <flo1> Good night
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00:48:20 <clokep> Mic...you definitely need to reduce the logging in Buddy Status. :P
00:48:32 <clokep> Apparently Norton thinks we're a virus. :( The installer.
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01:02:55 <EionRobb> what software are you using to build your installer?
01:03:59 <clokep> Same stuff Mozilla uses.
01:04:06 <clokep> (Aka Idk. :))
01:10:07 <EionRobb> I only ask because I've had issues with my NSIS-built installers being flagged as trojans/viruses for years
01:11:29 <clokep> Right. I think it might NSIS, I'm just not sure.
01:12:22 <EionRobb> The GIMP had the same problem until they started signing their binaries
01:12:58 <clokep> Yup, it's NSIS: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/installer/windows/nsis/
01:13:06 <clokep> Right. Mozilla signs theirs. I don't think we do.
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02:13:37 <clokep> Bleh so as much as I don't want to say it...I really do need file transfers every once in a while. :( I don't even care if I can send them, just accepting them is enough.
02:16:02 <clokep> I love when people say "Oh, I can't use this until you enable blah blah"...as if all we need to do is flip a switch. :P
02:18:43 <EionRobb> really they're just saying "I can't use this because I'm too scared to switch"
02:22:26 <clokep> Yup. :(
02:22:36 <clokep> Did you ever get any of your protocols to compile btw?
02:23:27 <EionRobb> haven't written the IB wrappers for them, no.  I've been dealing with the christchurch earthquakes instead
02:23:57 <clokep> Ah OK.
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07:12:31 <dontpanic> I love you instantbird!
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07:40:30 <Mic> Good morning
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08:07:41 <Mic> Typewith.me or whiteboard integration would be an awesome demonstration for the extensibility of the platform
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09:22:10 <pingu> er.....excuse me, if I want to start a translation, what should I do first?
09:23:54 <pingu> wiki say I need to tell you in order to setup environments.
09:25:38 <pingu> I hope I can help translate instantbird to Traditional Chinese (zh_TW).
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09:27:31 <fqueze_> hello :)
09:28:42 <pingu> hello
09:34:31 <Mic> Hi pingu, welcome to the Instantbird channel :)
09:35:26 <fqueze_> am I not welcome? :-X
09:40:11 <pingu> sorry, I'm not familiar with IRC, and my writing skill not very good....
09:41:03 <fqueze_> heh, I was just kidding ;)
09:41:12 <fqueze_> I'll give you what you need to start translating
09:42:22 <pingu> after take a look, there is a zh_CN translation, may I ........what should I say? branch from there?
09:42:35 <fqueze_> see the first point of https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Translation/FAQ :)
09:43:36 <fqueze_> pingu: the zh_CN translation has never really started, so you may as well start with a clean repository
09:45:52 <pingu> fine, just sent information you need to the email the artical told?
09:47:06 <pingu> there is a little problem. In Asia, IRC user are very rare, most time I won't be here....
09:47:43 <fqueze_> it's ok.
09:48:17 <fqueze_> you don't have to be here. It's just the most convenient way to get a quick answer to a question ;)
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10:08:03 <flo> pff, people complaining about instantbird using 40MB of RAM.
10:08:23 <gerard-majax> I think you can limit yourself to « people complaining »
10:08:24 <gerard-majax> :)
10:08:28 <flo> if at least they were complaining for an amount of RAM that makes sense to be upset of (over 100MB at least...)
10:08:40 <flo> gerard-majax: heh :)
10:08:58 <flo> but sometimes they complain for useful reasons that we can fix. But 40MB... it's just silly
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10:13:36 <clokep> I eat 40 MB for breakfast. ;)
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10:13:57 <rikki> im using over 6gb right now
10:14:22 <rikki> so i don't know why anyone would complain over 40mb unless they are on very low end systems
10:15:50 <clokep> Ah I got a response about the one article, he updated the URL and changed InstantBird to Instantbird. :)
10:15:59 <flo> great :)
10:17:19 <clokep> rikki: I think it's people use really low end systems and expect programs to not try to "move past them" into the future. :-/
10:17:49 <rikki> yea that is what im thinking as well
10:18:12 <clokep> If this will effect us, idk, but they're planning on upping Mozilla to use MSVS 2010 for Firefox 8. Just a heads up. ;)
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10:19:28 <rikki> here is just an "idea" we could for systems running at very low quality to lets say switch to a console only UI
10:19:48 <clokep> That'd be a lot of work. :-/
10:20:03 <rikki> yes it would but that is why i said it as a "idea"
10:20:08 <flo> rikki: and pretty useless
10:20:19 <rikki> yea but it would be interesting the resposnse
10:20:26 <flo> because the people who want the least RAM usage also want the greatest and coolest features
10:20:34 <flo> (otherwise they wouldn't be complaining in the first place)
10:21:05 <rikki> agreed but thats why i would want to switch them to a console only interface to almost teach them a lesson
10:21:21 <rikki> how ever this isn't a proposal for a reason
10:21:29 <clokep> Hahah. I could get behind that. ;)
10:21:37 <clokep> (The teaching them a lesson part.)
10:22:14 <flo> and people wanting console UIs (typically geeks) are often on high end systems :)
10:23:12 <rikki> i used console as an example, wasn't sure of any other UI that would impair that type of persons ability to use the software 
10:24:20 <flo> I'm looking at the referrers that bring people on our website
10:24:30 <flo> it's surprising how many people come from googleing "instantbird"
10:24:54 <flo> are HTTP links deprecated? Or is it really possible that they saw a news about us that doesn't have a link?
10:25:18 <rikki> just out of interest got the browser stats?
10:25:31 <flo> no
10:25:43 <flo> I don't have any stats yet
10:26:00 <clokep> flo: A lot of people probably didn't look for a link, read the first paragraph of an article and then googled for it.
10:26:09 <rikki> hmm damn just wondering considering i had 9 netscape hits on my site yet its barely google indexed
10:26:11 <flo> I'm just grepping the apache logs as they come
10:26:30 <clokep> I think a lot of our RAM usage just comes from running the Mozilla stuff anyway, not necessarily from the UI...
10:26:41 <clokep> So pretty much if they have low system resources we should just redirect them to Finch.
10:26:54 <flo> I think we can do better
10:27:07 <flo> first at startup 5-10% is a pure waste from libpurple
10:27:29 <flo> then we could arguably consume less memory when no window is visible
10:27:56 <clokep> P.S. I ran JS-IRC all night last night with no issues. :) (Not even a message that was failed to be handled technically, but I had some CTCP garbabge in some messages)
10:27:59 <flo> (if we had the ability to hide conversations and display them only when needed, rather than filing browsers with them even when they aren't used)
10:28:08 <flo> + actually closing the buddy list instead of minimizing
10:28:12 <clokep> Right.
10:28:26 <flo> + using a mozilla version with memory compartments, so that memory is actually released when closing a window
10:28:30 <clokep> Would things like limiting the use of plug-ins reduce ram usage?
10:28:41 <flo> you mean disable the add-on manager?
10:28:55 <clokep> I mean disable plug-ins from the add-on manager.
10:29:01 <clokep> (plug-ins in the technical sense...)
10:29:11 * clokep is thinking of that article on PMO yesterday...
10:29:15 <flo> I don't think they suck any memory until they are actually used at least once
10:29:22 <flo> which one? :)
10:29:22 <clokep> Like acrobat, silver light, flash, etc.
10:29:37 <clokep> The one complaining about the usage of plugins vs. extensions vs. add-ons.
10:29:45 <clokep> Terminology-wise.
10:29:54 <flo> we even have some people coming from searching "instantbird" in bing :-D
10:30:13 <flo> oh right. It was just a random complaint :)
10:31:26 <clokep> I don't care if people use ask jeeves to find us. ;) As long as they find us.
10:31:42 <rikki> wait isn't a good portion of the code of instantbird made up of just the UI backend code from mozilla?
10:32:37 <clokep> But we also run the backend through the XPCOM framework.
10:33:25 <rikki> so if we did make a dummy code to replace it, we would remove a good portion of the memory usage?
10:33:37 * clokep isn't sure.
10:33:39 <flo> replace what?
10:33:46 <clokep> Maybe someone could start porting the UI to android to fin dout. ;)
10:34:00 <rikki> the UI code in the mozilla framework
10:34:20 <flo> I'm sure if we used real birds to send real sheets of papers, we would use less RAM  (even though we would leak more bird poo ;)) :)
10:34:44 <flo> clokep: oh, that's another of the "big" things I wanted to start ;)
10:35:12 <rikki> i would help but ah im not too keen on learning about native for android
10:35:21 <flo> it's in XUL
10:35:31 <flo> nothing native (that would be pointless, we would lose the extensibility)
10:35:50 <rikki> no but wouldn't we also have to port the mozilla framework to some extent?
10:36:03 <clokep> Firefox exists for Android.
10:36:14 <rikki> not for all phones
10:36:50 <clokep> http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/mobile/platforms/
10:36:56 <clokep> Seems like an awful lot to me. ;)
10:37:54 <rikki> hmm so they only support the most expensive Huawei phone
10:39:51 <clokep> Probably the ones w/ more RAM + better CPUs.
10:40:41 <rikki> yes but you shouldn't need a dual core processor 512mb ram to run a single instance of firefox
10:41:06 <clokep> I don't know, I can't confirm or deny that.
10:41:39 <flo> rikki: it's doesn't need 512mb of ram, but a phone having that ram
10:41:59 <rikki> yea i know what you mean
10:42:06 <flo> because on android the applications are almost never closed, + the system itself consumes a significant amount of ram already ;)
10:42:47 <flo> and my phone, which is already 1 year old, is in that list of supported hardware ;)
10:42:48 <gerard-majax> rikki, firefox runs fine on my HTC Desire Z !
10:42:59 <gerard-majax> in fact it should work on any armv7
10:43:10 <rikki> i've got a Huawei IDEOS U8150
10:43:29 <rikki> i would expect it should be able to handle the framework in some form, not very well but it should be able to
10:46:03 <clokep> Well the website stayed up, right? :) That's good.
10:46:18 <flo> or it means almost nobody came
10:46:48 <flo> our efforts to get journalists to talk about us don't seem to have been very successful :-/
10:46:52 <clokep> I thought of that too. :P
10:46:59 <clokep> :-/
10:47:10 <clokep> We can hope they're just trying the software? P
10:47:59 <flo> we can hope whatever we want, but it doesn't change the end result
10:48:38 <rikki> ahh what did i miss?
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10:52:27 <flo> http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fr&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.baixaki.com.br%2Fdownload%2Finstantbird.htm "Cons: - Twitter screen is very colorful" Ahah! :)
10:53:25 <rikki> nice
10:55:12 <flo> I'm always surprised by how many websites have sameless copies of other articles (often without mentioning the source)
10:55:46 <rikki> most people do that just to add more content on their site
10:56:04 <rikki> which means more visitors
10:56:58 <flo> *shameless
10:57:33 <rikki> although google is trying to prevent that luckily
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10:59:47 <Mic> The german minister of defence had shameless copies in his PhD work too (well, almost everything was copy/pasted :D), he was sacked at the beginning of the year  and is in hiding since then :D
11:00:03 <Mic> Just as sidenote ;)
11:01:41 <flo> :)
11:02:27 <flo> away for lunch.
11:02:36 <aleth> how many downloads have you had so far?
11:04:28 <rikki> im actually not sure why people would bother stealing others work and saying its their own, it sorta defeats the purpose seen its not new and doesn't help any one
11:05:27 <aleth> its possibly just to get pageviews up without having to create their own content
11:05:51 <rikki> i was meaning for anything at all
11:05:52 <rikki> but yea
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11:41:49 <igorko> Hi. can i get download statistic for ukrainian 1.0 ?
11:42:18 <igorko> so interesting...
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11:48:18 <Mic> flo, clokep_work: I wouldn't expect journalists to read it, test it and write something to post within a day.
11:54:12 <flo> Mic: that's why we gave them ready to use screnshot and a ready to copy/paste press release ;)
11:54:36 <flo> igorko: not yet.
11:55:17 <flo> http://www.lffl.org/2011/06/instantbird-10-rilasciato-alternativa.html
11:57:41 <flo> pingu: thanks :)
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12:04:49 <flo> oh, I found one person with a real reason to complain about memory usage: http://i.imgur.com/Y29kM.png
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12:05:07 <flo> (not of Instantbird though :))
12:07:28 <rikki> lmfao
12:07:31 <flo> http://www.reddit.com/r/opensource/comments/ibi6o/instantbird_10_released_crossplatform/ 95 positive votes there. That's starting to be interesting. Can we do anything to improve that?
12:09:59 <flo> http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Cross-platform-IM-client-InstantBird-goes-1-0-1270008.html someone who took a few minutes to read our recent blog posts before posting! :)
12:11:21 <clokep_work> :)
12:11:36 <pingu> what a familiar scene.....such a huge memory usage=w=
12:12:35 <flo> actually, looking at the referrers of the incoming HTTP requests on our website is better than googling "Instantbird 1.0" to find website talking about us ;)
12:13:03 <rikki> hmm, flo maybe we should try and leverage instantbird on facebook more
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12:13:12 <flo> rikki: please do :)
12:13:29 <rikki> im wondering could we make facebook more integrated
12:13:38 * clokep_work hides.
12:13:45 <rikki> like we have chat, but how about messages
12:13:50 <rikki> wall
12:14:13 <flo> oh, I thought you meant posting download links to all your friends :)
12:14:29 <rikki> that may give us the leverage enough to get people to use IB over having a tab open for it constantly
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12:14:39 <rikki> o i already suggest it where needed
12:14:53 <clokep_work> "Despite the name, the project is completely independent of, and not sponsored by, the Mozilla Foundation; however the developers appear to share Mozilla's commitment to user-respecting software and hope to emulate Mozilla's example." ah-ha Someone really does read! :)
12:15:55 <rikki> so think it would be possible to integrate it more?
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12:16:18 <clokep_work> Yes. I think it's a question of if we want to.
12:16:32 <rikki> thats more what i was included but yea
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12:17:33 <flo> yeah, as for most other things, it's mostly a matter of "is anyone caring enough to actually start working on it?"
12:18:11 <rikki> i'll have a look into existing implementations but i won't actually do it
12:19:53 <igorko> gyus 
12:19:53 <igorko> if (doc instanceof HTMLDocument)
12:19:53 <igorko>    {
12:19:53 <igorko>       // register mouse handlers
12:20:19 <igorko> should i change HTMLDocument for Instantbird?
12:20:23 <clokep_work> rikki: Yeah, even if we had some ideas about how to fit the stuff in I might be interested in looking at it. It's on my to-do list eventually to relook at Facebook stuff.
12:20:30 <flo> I don't understand how our website can still be so fast with a load average of over 30 on the server
12:20:43 <flo> igorko: no
12:20:59 <igorko> hm. But somewhere it doesn't work...
12:21:12 <flo> igorko: but it would help to know what you are trying to do, and if you could pastebin larger example of code (rather than pasting in the room)
12:21:13 <gerard-majax> flo, it depends on how the load is computed :)
12:21:27 <flo> gerard-majax: the standard unix load
12:21:42 <gerard-majax> how many cpus ?
12:21:48 <flo> gerard-majax: which is the number of processes waiting to start.
12:22:01 <flo> 1 (and a sucky one. Celeron 2.0Ghz I think)
12:23:19 <rikki> flo if you guys need to use my server for e.g. continuous build i can help
12:24:12 <igorko> flo http://pastebin.com/Ei5fetZ6 it's addon engine. It doesn't work in Instantbird. It should create popup with translation accordingly to some mouse events
12:24:30 <igorko> works in ff5
12:24:56 <clokep_work> You'd need to register it with each conversation that gets loaded.
12:25:31 <igorko> how? :)
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12:25:55 <flo> igorko: do you see the logged messages?
12:26:21 <igorko> what logged messages
12:26:29 <igorko> i don't understand
12:26:45 <flo> all the gd12debug.log calls
12:27:17 <rikki> just taking a look into fbql im thinking using the facebook js API would allow us to get the information about a user
12:27:48 <igorko> no i don't see nothing in console
12:28:41 <igorko> here is http://pastebin.com/tD8evkUh debug.js
12:28:44 <igorko> small
12:28:58 <clokep_work> rikki: It should relatively easily, we can use their REST API (whatever they call it I forget), I think decide on a UI concept is the more challenging part (personally). ;)
12:29:03 <flo> igorko: I think you need to change the code at lines 8-12
12:29:15 <clokep_work> Although we'll need to deal with their OAuth garbage...blah.
12:29:31 <flo> clokep_work: we've already had some training for that ;)
12:29:38 <rikki> hmm, im thinking of using a chat dialog as the wall
12:30:07 <flo> yeah, like we do for twitter
12:30:53 <rikki> messages we can do the same type of thing as well, except one for a list and then a (hideable) one for the message
12:34:48 <clokep_work> Could work, but we'd have the same issue as Twitter of, how do you reply to specific messages or "Like" a message, etc. :P
12:35:24 <rikki> hmm is there a way to extend current chat tabs?
12:35:26 <flo> do you find twitter actually usable in Instantbird currently?
12:35:47 <rikki> i don't use twitter
12:35:49 <flo> I've never really used twitter, so I'm not really sure if it's twitter or our UI for it that I find unusable
12:35:50 <clokep_work> I find it mostly usable, but I need to use Thunderbird/the website to do some random things (RT mostly).
12:36:17 <clokep_work> The other issue I have is that tweets tend to come in very fast and reading them in a little chat window can be difficult.
12:36:31 <clokep_work> But people use Twitter in so many different ways, it's hard to find a UI for all of them.
12:37:42 <clokep_work> Bugzilla is....so....slow...
12:40:06 <clokep_work> Should we change the "contact us" link on https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Translation to be team@instantbird.org, the one on the contact page is contact@instantbird.org (i.e. it's public), or does that not matter much?
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12:41:56 <flo> clokep_work: I wondered the same thing this morning
12:42:10 <flo> on the other hand, we request that they allow us to make their email address public
12:42:16 <flo> but yeah, team sounds better
12:43:29 <flo> how long does it take you to get a bugzilla page?
12:43:38 <flo> It just took me over a minute to load the front page :(
12:44:50 <rikki> flo, would the downloads be slowing down the page load?
12:45:00 <flo> not at all
12:45:08 <flo> we offloaded them to googlecode.com :)
12:45:17 <rikki> ahh thats what i was gonna check lol
12:45:36 <flo> that's slowing down the server is: 1. Processing crash reports. 2. The add-on website which is implemented is extremely unefficient ways.
12:45:43 <clokep_work> flo: It took a few minutes to get to the main page and then 30 seconds to load each bug or so.
12:46:34 <clokep_work> flo: We know Google Code gives download counts per file, right? :)
12:46:43 <flo> ah?
12:46:49 <clokep_work> http://code.google.com/p/instantbird/downloads/list
12:47:01 <rikki> hmm out of interest have we considered putting ads on the site?
12:47:40 <clokep_work> I'm going ot change that link to team.
12:48:26 <flo> ok, everybody can have the download stats they are interested in
12:49:04 <flo> it's pretty clear that: 1. we don't have enough donwloads yet. 2. We already have way more than 0.1 had on its first day when it put down our server at the time.
12:50:25 <rikki> i only suggested ads so that we could get a VPS or something to offload the processing to
12:50:39 <flo> it's surprising that some .win32.zip files have a non-0 download count (there's no link for them at all)
12:50:50 <flo> rikki: what's a VPS?
12:51:00 <rikki> virtual private server from memory
12:51:08 <rikki> cheaper then paying to rent a server
12:51:13 <flo> we already have 2 dedicated servers
12:51:22 <flo> that we pay (real money) to rent
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12:52:09 <rikki> o, hmm maybe i'll have to have a good think about if i can do a redesign of a web service then or something
12:52:26 <rikki> so that the site can load faster
12:52:37 <flo> which site?
12:52:44 <rikki> thats it idk yet
12:53:00 <clokep_work> flo: I have a total of 3067  downloads though.
12:53:02 <flo> you are confusing me :)
12:53:18 <flo> clokep_work: is that count listed anywhere?
12:53:19 <rikki> sorry about that, which web service is operating poorly then?
12:53:27 <flo> the add-ons website
12:53:31 <flo> it's a giant piece of crap
12:53:39 <clokep_work> flo: No. I put it into excel and summed a column. ;)
12:53:56 <rikki> so would you have any issues with having a java web server to handle that?
12:54:11 <flo> that would be slower, wouldn't it?
12:54:19 <rikki> what do you currently have?
12:54:25 <flo> it's PHP
12:54:34 <rikki> not from memory
12:54:39 <flo> the new version is in python. No idea of its quality.
12:54:48 <flo> but no, we don't want to have anything to do with java
12:55:00 <rikki> then i can't help
12:55:48 <clokep_work> It'd be nice to upgrade to the new one and use what other people are working on instead of rolling our own stuff too. :(
12:56:45 <rikki> but do we need all the features offered?
12:58:37 <rikki> sorry if im getting a bit up front and all, its sorta nearly 1am and this is the only way im gonna be able to stay awake
12:59:50 <clokep_work> I'm not sure if we need ALL of them, but maybe most of them. :)
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13:01:05 <rikki> thats one reason why i offered to write a replacement, another is i know i could get better performance using the framework i use
13:01:34 <clokep_work> Fair enough. It's appreciated. :) I'll defer to flo on this one. ;)
13:02:25 <-- igorko has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.0)
13:02:25 <clokep_work> Bah there doesn't seem to be a way to just give the total downloads.
13:02:28 --> igorko has joined #instantbird
13:02:36 <clokep_work> I mean we could script it easy enough, but you'd think it just has that.
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13:03:03 <Mic> Do we have to worry that people start filing bugs on the google code issue-tracker?
13:03:25 <clokep_work> Mic: We can actually disable that if we wanted to.
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13:14:03 <flo> Mic: are there bugs there already?
13:14:14 <clokep_work> No.
13:14:27 <clokep_work> flo: We should de-promote MinTrayR on the add-ons site I think.
13:14:53 <flo> right.
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13:17:12 <pingu> /help
13:19:03 <clokep_work> pingu: Uhh...did that command not work? :-/
13:19:13 <pingu> no
13:20:27 <pingu> just because I'm not sure should I use raw or not...
13:20:36 <clokep_work> What are you trying to do?
13:21:08 <clokep_work> The raw command just tries to not handle HTML formatting, I believe.
13:21:19 <clokep_work> The /help command shows the available commands.
13:21:26 <clokep_work> So you can do /help raw and it'll tell you. ;)
13:21:55 <pingu> did IRC server handle /help command?
13:22:21 <pingu> or just libpurple?
13:22:43 <flo> "This is starting to annoy me, which means that this will get fixed. Yay." if only that could be true for all the things that annoy me ;)
13:22:47 <clokep_work> Instantbird is handling the help command, it's not part of libpurple, and it works for any protocol.
13:23:16 <clokep_work> pingu: I don't think IRC servers have a "help" command built in, some might via services though.
13:23:22 <clokep_work> flo: Pick the easy bugs like I do. ;)
13:23:51 <flo> I thought I was supposed to stay away from them to keep opportunities for contributors to start ;)
13:24:40 <flo> seriously though, the more I use a crappy connection (= my 3G connection from the phone) and the more I have to reconnect often, the more I'm upset by those stupid pointless IRC tabs.
13:25:05 <-- igorko has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.0)
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13:27:06 <flo> hmm, that bugzilla slowness may very well fit in the "This is starting to annoy me, which means that this will get fixed. Yay." category though
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13:28:00 <clokep_work> What will fix that?
13:28:38 <clokep_work> flo: JS-IRC seems to be working OK for me. ;) But I want to run a few more days before I give my stamp of approval. I can add an option to not show the server tabs. :P
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13:29:56 <flo> clokep_work: I want to turn off crash report processing
13:30:11 <igorko> any ideas why instantbird includes Ukrainian spellchecking by default?
13:30:16 <flo> as long as we accept them, we can just store them and process them in a few hours or days when things will be quieter
13:30:24 <flo> igorko: shouldn't it?
13:30:28 <igorko> for Ukrainian locale of course
13:30:41 <igorko> where it get's dictionary
13:31:55 <clokep_work> Ah, I didn't realize we could store them indefinitely like that. :) Neat.
13:32:01 <clokep_work> Won't tell us our top crashers though! :P
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13:36:41 <flo> igorko: if a dictionnary has a licence compatible with the Mozilla tri-licence, it's included automatically in localized builds.
13:36:56 <flo> If not the dictionnary needs to be packaged separately as an add-on that people have to install
13:36:59 <igorko> i see
13:37:17 <flo> igorko: see https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Dictionaries
13:37:27 <flo> https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Dictionaries#Ukrainian_.5Buk.5D
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13:40:05 <cartman> hey
13:40:18 <cartman> is there a way to get a build of Instantbird against mozilla-central?
13:41:27 <flo> if you want to build it yourself, that should be possible (if you are ready to fix the issues that you will notice)
13:42:10 <cartman> they changed font rendering in mozilla-central and it looks better on Linux now
13:42:13 <cartman> thats why I wanted
13:42:18 <cartman> I can try to build it :/
13:43:13 <flo> don't expect it to work "out of the box"
13:43:19 <flo> you may want to wait for us to update
13:43:31 <flo> (probably later this week, or next week in the nightlies)
13:43:50 <cartman> good enough for me
13:43:59 <cartman> instantbird looks cool, wanted to try it :)
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13:45:46 <cartman> is there any plan to integrate jingle support for audio/video though ?
13:46:10 <flo> yes, but not a plan including an "expected date of arrival" ;).
13:46:12 <igorko> i just installed dictionary addon , that doesn't have instantbird ID in setup file. How could this be?
13:46:25 <flo> it's marked compatible with the toolkit
13:46:36 <igorko> i see
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13:46:41 <cartman> flo: I see :)
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13:55:54 <kelopez> hey
13:56:04 <clokep_work> Hello.
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13:56:39 <kelopez> somehow this computer booted itself into ImB
13:58:25 <clokep_work> ...?
13:59:07 <kelopez> the computer turned on by itself
13:59:26 <clokep_work> Ah, that's a little freaky. :)
13:59:27 <igorko> bug 344
13:59:32 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Figure out what to do with the "Show offline buddies" feature and offline accounts
13:59:33 <igorko> testing addon
13:59:56 <kelopez> Adonis
14:03:09 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 869 filed by aletheia2@fastmail.fm.
14:03:15 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=869 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Contacts window forgets screen position when closed
14:04:52 <-- igorko has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.0)
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14:05:33 <igorko> yay I have 8 addons on Instanbird :)
14:06:47 <igorko> but google dictionary doesn't work :(
14:07:25 <clokep_work> Only 8?! Psh. ;)
14:07:34 <igorko> hehe :)
14:08:14 <clokep_work> flo: So if I wanted you to help me w/ this SIPE stuff somewhat...what is the best way for me to show you what I have, etc.? Just point you to the source I've downloaded and such and share my makefiles w/ you?
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14:08:23 <kelopez> there should be a way to install add-ons from Instantbird itself
14:08:24 <clokep_work> I mean I could make a patch, but it'd probably be MBs. :P
14:08:32 <clokep_work> kelopez: There is, open the add-ons manager. ;)
14:09:01 <kelopez> no
14:09:03 <kelopez> I mean
14:09:04 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 868 filed by michal.stanke@mikk.cz.
14:09:07 <kelopez> browsing the addons
14:09:11 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=868 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, no way to change the spellcheck dictionary
14:09:15 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 870 filed by aletheia2@fastmail.fm.
14:09:20 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=870 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Single click (not double click) on tray icon should toggle the Buddy List
14:09:46 <clokep_work> You can search for them. Idk if it let's you browse as well.
14:10:03 <kelopez> no
14:10:15 <kelopez> in the get addons page it gives you a link
14:10:39 <kelopez> BUT
14:10:44 <kelopez> you gotta search for them
14:11:07 <clokep_work> Ah, I see.
14:11:10 <clokep_work> Yeah that's unfortunate.
14:11:16 <kelopez> lemme show you a pic
14:11:16 <kelopez> xd
14:11:45 <kelopez> http://i.imgur.com/wscR5.png
14:12:55 <clokep_work> Yup.
14:13:22 <igorko> https://addons.mozilla.org/uk/firefox/addon/smileysidebar/ <--- this should be ported ;)
14:13:47 <kelopez> https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/276 and this should be implemented w/o addons :P
14:14:00 <flo> clokep_work: hmm, a link to a source. Your makefile. Maybe a patch of the changes you made in the file from the source?
14:15:13 <igorko> kelopez huh? Tab Complete 1.0 works
14:15:16 <clokep_work> kelopez: There's a bug open about it, no one has done it yet. Put a patch if you'd like it in the core.
14:15:18 <kelopez> yes
14:15:22 <clokep_work> igorko: Then port it. :P
14:15:31 <kelopez> oh no patches D:
14:15:33 <igorko> i'll try
14:15:35 <clokep_work> flo: OK! I think I wrote a blog post with all the sources actually. ;)
14:15:43 <kelopez> anyway
14:15:51 <kelopez> I'm gonna put me in the cc list :P
14:15:59 <kelopez> I don't know how to speak in C
14:16:02 <kelopez> D:
14:16:16 <kelopez> it's bug 205
14:16:25 <kelopez> I said
14:16:26 <kelopez> bug 205
14:16:33 <kelopez> silly bot
14:17:01 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=205 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Auto-complete nicknames in multi-user chats (MUCs)
14:17:17 <kelopez> slow bot is slow
14:17:23 <clokep_work> "how to speak in C"? It would most likely be done in JavaScript, not C.
14:17:41 <kelopez> oh yeah
14:17:41 <kelopez> silly me
14:17:49 <flo> kelopez: bugzilla is slow.
14:17:57 <kelopez> I noticed
14:18:09 <flo> where do you think the bot gets its info from? ;)
14:18:14 <kelopez> but it's not your fault
14:18:22 <kelopez> who hosts your servers
14:18:29 <flo> we reduced the crash report processings
14:18:38 <flo> only 1 crash processed at a time instead of 4 before
14:18:45 <flo> that doesn't seem to affect the result much :(
14:18:51 <kelopez> aw
14:19:24 <kelopez> who are these guys Dedibox
14:19:28 <kelopez> VPS?
14:19:38 <fqueze_> it's Illiad (free.fr)
14:19:42 <fqueze_> it's a dedicated server
14:19:49 <kelopez> oh
14:20:00 <aleth> Where do I turn on OTR encryption? Or is that automatic when 'Connection security" is set to "Require encryption"?
14:21:48 <clokep_work> aleth: There is no OTR encryption.
14:21:53 <kelopez> ... ye
14:21:58 <kelopez> ... yet *
14:22:03 <aleth> ah
14:22:53 <aleth> is it not in libpurple? :(
14:23:03 <clokep_work> No, it's not part of libpurple.
14:23:21 <kelopez> it's implemented as a plugin for Pidgin ;)
14:24:03 <aleth> Yes, Pidgin has it
14:24:20 <clokep_work> As a plugin.
14:24:43 <aleth> Yup
14:25:47 <igorko>  [img]http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/remake/bb.gif[/img] 
14:25:55 <igorko> hm- that's bad
14:26:44 <igorko> clokep_work dav addon :(
14:26:49 <igorko> it uses images
14:26:49 <clokep_work> What's bad?
14:27:15 <igorko> it uses images and as i see Instantbird doesn't support them
14:27:52 <aleth> aha, the plugin uses libotr
14:28:00 <clokep_work> No, it's just inserting BB code. It'd need to be changed to insert the smiley code instead.
14:28:07 <clokep_work> Plus install the smileys. :)
14:28:44 <clokep_work> aleth: Yup! Something we're interested in...just more important things getting in the way. :P
14:29:04 <aleth> clokep_work: sure, np
14:29:37 <flo> people blogging about ib 1.0 all seem to show twitter
14:29:57 <flo> I wonder if that's because it's the only way they find to show a non-empty window that doesn't show anything private
14:30:32 <clokep_work> I noticed that too.
14:30:55 <clokep_work> And I'm guessing that's the reaosn...or because you can put your account in it and it won't sign you off other places (although XMPP does that too...)
14:30:58 <kelopez> smile://:P
14:30:58 <kelopez> :P
14:31:08 <kelopez> smile protocol
14:32:11 <aleth> Are you satisfied with #downloads so far?
14:32:34 <-- flo has quit (Ping timeout)
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14:40:13 <igorko> could someone help me? http://pastie.org/2140033
14:40:37 <igorko> that bar is opened by clicking on button. How to open that bar by default?
14:44:33 <clokep_work> igorko: I'd guess you could execute toggleSidebar('viewSmileySidebar'); as part of the init function, but there's probably a better way to do this.
14:44:49 <aleth> set viewSmileySidebar to be true as default setting? or better, save its value to about:config?
14:45:45 <igorko> so i should remove this  <menupopup id="viewSidebarMenu">
14:45:45 <igorko> 		<menuitem key="key_openSmileySidebar" observes="viewSmileySidebar"  />
14:45:45 <igorko> 	</menupopup>
14:45:48 <igorko> ?
14:46:37 <Mic> He's dead, Jim :(
14:47:15 <Mic> Even: Bugzilla's complaining that it can't connect to the database .
14:48:09 <igorko> hm- i dunno xul :(
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14:48:14 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 
14:49:10 <aleth> I don't think removing that would help
14:49:23 <flo> so even www.ib.com doesn't work anymore?
14:49:55 <aleth> igorko: why not look at the code of some other add-on that has similar behaviour to what you want?
14:50:42 <aleth> :o did you get slashdotted?
14:51:07 <flo> oooh! lifehacker !
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14:51:35 <clokep_work> Ah, about time. :)
14:51:52 <clokep_work> Ah-ha! Someone I /didn't/ email, wrote it. :P
14:52:05 <igorko> aleth i can't find addon with similar behavior that works in instantbird :(
14:52:55 <clokep_work> igorko: There's an add-on that has smilies and adds them when you click on them.
14:53:18 <igorko> hm i'll try to find
14:53:25 <clokep_work> Short article...but it's on lifehacker so should get some hits.
14:53:29 <clokep_work> It's by patrickjdempsy.
14:53:35 <clokep_work> igorko: ^ ^
14:55:19 <igorko> i found somehing similar in mozilla wiki
14:55:28 <igorko> https://developer.mozilla.org*
14:57:11 <flo> we will switch to http://www2.instantbird.com/ in less than 5 minutes (DNS propagation time)
14:57:44 <clokep_work> :)
14:58:13 <aleth> so lifehacker took you down? or was it not connected to anything in particular
14:58:58 <flo> we were already overloaded
14:59:12 <flo> it was just the final additional touch
14:59:57 <flo> does it work for you now?
15:00:13 <Mic> flo: what about redirecting half of the requests to the other server?
15:00:27 <flo> the first server has just finished rebooting and already has a load of 30
15:00:43 <flo> so I think moving all requests is a better solution
15:00:58 <flo> I'm a bit worried I don't have a third server ready though
15:02:32 <aleth> flo: its back up
15:02:37 <clokep_work> flo: If it gets real bad we can link to the Google Download site directly, unless you'd much rather not do that?
15:02:49 * clokep_work is not going to touch instantbird.* for a while, reduce the load. ;)
15:02:51 <flo> clokep_work: link from where?
15:03:17 <flo> I have ready with our SSL cert on it to be able to close any website of the first server in case of extreme load
15:03:42 <clokep_work> flo: Uhh...idk unless we comment / ask people to change links. :)
15:03:59 <fqueze_> they would take a day to react and change the link
15:04:10 <fqueze_> hmmm, I think I left www-staging on the first server
15:04:18 <fqueze_> (but it only redirects to www anyway)
15:04:44 <flo> do both ib.com and www.ib.com work?
15:05:06 <clokep_work> www.instantbird.com works...
15:05:10 <clokep_work> Other is loading still.
15:06:14 <clokep_work> instantbird.com works but is very slow.
15:06:34 <clokep_work> Well there was just like 250 downloads in 3 or 4 minutes so...
15:07:19 <Mic> So far a total of 3570 downloads from Google.
15:08:29 <Mic> just fyi
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15:11:05 <elazar> Is the Add-Ons area of the site down?
15:11:22 <clokep_work> elazar: Everything is very slow right now.
15:11:52 <elazar> clokep_work: Lifehacker just posted about Instantbird. Perhaps that's why? :)
15:12:06 <clokep_work> elazar: Yes, we noticed. And it's probably why. :)
15:12:46 <sonny> http://lifehacker.com/5816618/instantbird-is-a-lightweight-cross+platform-instant-messaging-app-with-sharp-looks
15:12:57 <sonny> flo, your face is gonna be very famous :p
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15:17:27 <flo> is ib.com still slow?
15:17:45 <Mic> Most of the opinions I've seen in comments and on Twitter are good :)
15:17:59 <flo> the load is about 2 on the "new" server, and 8 on the old one
15:18:11 <Mic> It's fast again
15:18:23 <aleth> ppl seem to make up their mind very quickly about whether they like it or not
15:18:40 <flo> is the add-ons website down? Should we just close it?
15:19:30 <elazar> I still don't seem to be able to hit add-ons.
15:19:35 <elazar> White-screens.
15:19:40 <clokep_work> Yeah I think it's dead. :(
15:20:53 <Mic> I think it's loading for nearly a minute now .. that's as good as dead :S
15:21:29 <flo> would you prefer seeing : instead?
15:22:22 <clokep_work> I think it might be better flo.
15:22:32 <clokep_work> Although...then we can't recover afterward. :(
15:22:33 <Mic> Put an apostroph in the title ;)
15:22:56 <aleth> Btw, on the Get Add-Ons page, it says "What are Add-ons? ... When you're connected to the internet, this pane will feature some of the best and most popular add-ons for you to try out". I don't think that statement is true? Might be worthwhile to put a link to the add-on site there instead, or point people at the search bar
15:23:50 <flo> clokep_work: recover what?
15:24:02 <flo> Mic: in the title?
15:24:40 <clokep_work> flo: Recover after the load goes down.
15:24:50 <Mic> The "servers" in the page title is standing for "server is" isn't it?
15:25:10 <flo> servers are
15:25:22 <Mic> ok, then "are" is missing ;)
15:26:17 <flo> should be "closed" in 5 minutes
15:26:21 <flo> (dns propagation)
15:30:01 <flo> https://addons.instantbird.org/ what do you see for this page?
15:30:52 <cartman> Over capacity!
15:30:57 <flo> cool :)
15:31:02 <flo> and it appears immediately?
15:31:05 <cartman> yeah
15:31:10 <flo> perfect! :)
15:31:19 <flo> we have a load of 66 on the first server
15:33:58 <kelopez> over 9000
15:34:08 <flo> ?
15:34:21 <Mic> hehe
15:34:45 <clokep_work> This comment scares me a lot: http://lifehacker.com/5816618/instantbird-is-a-lightweight-cross+platform-instant-messaging-app-with-sharp-looks?comment=40501818#comments :(
15:35:05 <Mic> "What does the scouter say about the load level? -- It's OVER 9000!!!", that's a reference to an older Internet meme
15:35:35 <Mic> It's "power level" in the original and you can find thousands of videos on this on Youtube, flo.
15:35:59 <flo> clokep_work: which comment? The one about meebo?
15:36:15 <clokep_work> Yes. Idk. I don't want a website having all the logs of all my conversations. :(
15:36:33 <ironhead> not to mention they store all your passwords
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15:36:53 <ironhead> the whole concept of web based IM scares me
15:36:54 <aleth> clokep_work: I totally agree. But I also know lots of people who have switched to Meebo, they have done so because it is 1) crossplattform 2) multi-IM-service 3) have good log view/search
15:37:01 <aleth> you have 1 & 2 covered already
15:37:01 <riduidel> Hello
15:37:04 <Mic> As long as it's not Facebook;) 
15:37:12 <aleth> Most people are not very privacy-aware
15:37:15 <riduidel> I've just installed InstanBird 1.0 on Windows
15:37:20 <Mic> (Now this is a reference to something really, really recent;)
15:37:26 <aleth> if anything they are like "but its https"
15:37:33 <riduidel> And i've a question regarding Growl
15:37:51 <Mic> Hello riduidel
15:38:21 <riduidel> Documentation indicates there is support for Growl, but seems to be restricted to MacOS
15:38:38 <clokep_work> Growl is only on Mac OS. :)
15:39:04 <riduidel> However, there is a version of Growl for Windows
15:39:09 <riduidel> http://www.growlforwindows.com/gfw/
15:39:16 <riduidel> And I use it on a daily basis
15:39:17 <riduidel> So
15:39:35 <riduidel> How hard would it be to integrate that in your plans ?
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15:39:48 <clokep_work> I'm sure an extension could be made to support that.
15:39:57 <clokep_work> We do support pop ups though on Windows.
15:40:16 <ironhead> clokep_work: indeed a really nice feature too :)
15:40:37 <clokep_work> It can be turned on in the General tab of the preferences.
15:40:38 <riduidel> But doesn't the extension already exists for Mac ?
15:41:07 <clokep_work> No, there's build in support for Growl via the Mozilla framework that we use.
15:41:09 <Mic> riduidel: the Mozilla codes does this for us.
15:41:18 <Even> whoa
15:41:20 <Mic> clokep mid-aired me again ;)
15:41:21 <clokep_work> For Windows and linux it uses pop ups that come from the corner of the screen.
15:41:28 <Even> At least we can say it's a big success for Ib to achieve this.
15:41:29 <riduidel> Yes, i've seen that
15:41:32 <clokep_work> Mic: I mid-aired you? I hvaen't touched bugzilla in hours.
15:41:46 <Even> Since 0.1 no release achieved to get the server near the state it is now.
15:41:51 <Even> I'm looking at the logs.
15:41:53 <riduidel> so you mean it's not an instantbird bug, but a Mozilla one ?
15:41:54 <Even> It's just amazing.
15:41:58 <clokep_work> riduidel: For growl for windows, I'm sure something could be made, but I'm not sure exactly how difficult it would be. :)
15:42:03 <clokep_work> It could be either.
15:42:21 <trockenasche> hey people! i'm just trying the new Instantbird and want to install some addons but the addon site dosen't work???
15:42:23 <clokep_work> Do you know if there's say a Thunderbird extension that supports Growl for Windows? If so it'd be trivial to support us (most likely)
15:42:30 <Even> The thing takes Megas at an impressive speed.
15:42:32 <clokep_work> trockenasche: Yes, y'all took our site down! :P
15:42:34 <Even> It's all text!
15:42:58 <Even> Well, as a matter of fact, we had to turn it down.
15:42:59 <trockenasche> thanks, now i know
15:43:07 <clokep_work> It'll hopefully be up soon-ish.
15:43:18 <Even> The server is really not up to the task :)
15:43:20 <riduidel> According to this page (http://www.growlforwindows.com/gfw/apps.aspx) Growl for Windows supports Thunderbird, Firefox, and Pidgin (all through plugins)
15:43:22 <clokep_work> Well Even's right, we turned it off. Was taking too much load.
15:43:24 <Even> I'm sorry for this ^^
15:43:44 <clokep_work> riduidel: Ah, if you can find that plug-in, I'm sure it could be adapted for Instantbird then! :)
15:43:45 <trockenasche> don't worry
15:44:03 <clokep_work> (Personally I'm not really interested in this, but I'm willing to help you, if you are. :))
15:44:53 <Even> oO
15:45:01 <Even> I happened to succeed in loading the bugzilla main page :)
15:45:04 <Even> That's a progress :P
15:45:16 <Mic> clokep_work: I guess it could be replacing the alert service. If it really does, it is only a matter or repacking it for Instantbird.
15:45:37 <Even> Well, I believe that during the next 2 or 3 days, a lot of Ib sevices will be kept down.
15:45:43 <Even> At least for now.
15:46:03 <Mic> riduidel: I'm checking it right now
15:46:30 <Even> We might have some brand new servers in a few months. Maybe it's the last time we take such a blow.
15:46:40 <Even> Maybe not.
15:46:59 <Even> It's still hard to keep up with this much people. Looks like a ddos to me :)
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15:48:58 <clokep_work> Mic riduidel Should be doable to port, doesn't just replace the service like what would make sense though.
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15:56:43 <riduidel> @clokep_work didn't totally understood your last message
15:57:32 <Mic> They'd gotten support like it is on Mac if they had added a (most likely small and easy) component that they didn't for some reason
15:58:03 <flo> is bugzilla usable again?
15:58:07 <Mic> So they only have download notifications
15:58:25 * clokep_work is now known as clokep_away
15:58:32 <riduidel> arf
15:59:10 <Mic> I guess the solution would be to write and add this component.
15:59:21 <riduidel> does it means it's inferior to what pidgin or adium (they both are able to send notifications on each message, and notification on coming/exiting contacts, whatever the protocol is)
16:00:00 <Mic> No, we were only discussing capabilities of the Firefox addon
16:00:56 <riduidel> oh, sorry
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16:01:18 <Mic> ah, I hope I haven't scared him/her away .. :S
16:06:18 <elazar> aleth: Re: logs, the performance of the view log window isn't so great with people you speak with often. :\
16:06:22 <elazar> In Pidgin, that is.
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16:15:54 <aleth> elazar: When I try to get them to "convert" away from Meebo, they usually say "Meebo lets me view and search my logs in one place independent from where I access it". Quite apart from usability, that's genuinely hard I think for a local client to replicate
16:16:07 <aleth> but am agreed about the pidgin log viewer...
16:16:35 <elazar> aleth: Ah, insofar as Meebo is concerned, I can see the convenience of it being centralized.
16:16:53 <aleth> It's a convenience if you use a couple of different devices
16:17:29 <elazar> aleth: Perhaps an "it just works" portable version would placate those concerns?
16:17:52 <aleth> It's integrating the logs thats hard
16:18:06 <elazar> Obviously not as convenient as having it be "in the cloud," but about as close as you can get without the capability to persist logs in a central store.
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16:18:22 <aleth> I do think IB "just works", its just not a feature it can have easily
16:20:32 <aleth> In principle you could add an option to put the log folder somewhere where it can be synced by a third party cloud service, but it's probably hard to make this a feature that "just works" for the novice, and without collisions etc. 
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16:29:44 <aleth> Plus you would have to implement encryption of the logs in IB to ensure privacy
16:30:43 <flo> was there anything important said here in the last hour? (I was busy with the servers)
16:33:06 <aleth> there was a discussion about the doability of a growl for windows plugin, and about if one could replicate features that keep people on Meebo
16:33:19 <aleth> anything else i missed
16:33:47 <clokep_away> Re: Encrypted logs served in the cloud...we're hoping to have something like Firefox Sync that could maybe do this? But logs take up a lot of space...so maybe not. :)
16:34:34 * clokep_away is now known as clokep_lunch
16:35:19 <flo> just for info, the current load is 2 on the main server (from which we took of the main website and closed the addons website. Bugzilla, wiki, ... remain) and 1 on the second server (blog + www.ib.com/org + overcapacity message)
16:36:05 <aleth> wow, I forgot about FF Sync. Of course that could do the job, in principle :)
16:36:50 <clokep_lunch> I think everyone that comments on all these blogs hasn't actually tried it. :P
16:37:07 <Mic> I experimented with Sync but it never got far
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16:37:12 <aleth> I use it
16:37:42 <aleth> They have a much better implementation of adding new devices these days
16:37:54 <flo> clokep_lunch: because the download count isn't changing much?
16:38:47 <clokep_lunch> flo: No, because they say "Oh well, can it really be better..." type statements.
16:39:01 <clokep_lunch> Like..."can you really compare this app to adium? adium offers almost any type of customization and the amount of communication protocols it supports is pretty big. what does this offer to really consider a switch?"
16:39:10 <clokep_lunch> He didn't even read the LifeHacker article, much less our own articles.
16:39:16 <clokep_lunch> Certainly didn't try it.
16:39:22 <aleth> on the lifehacker post there are some comments that look like Trillian ads
16:39:32 <clokep_lunch> Yes. I saw that too.
16:40:32 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 871 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
16:40:36 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=871 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Scrolling the conversation content when the input box is selected
16:42:22 <Mic> aleth: I meant I started to make Sync compatible with Instantbird.. it's rather complicated imo but someone (Wladimir Palant?) had a good blog posting on this :S
16:42:47 <clokep_lunch> Yes, it was Wladimir Palant.
16:42:59 <clokep_lunch> ABP guy. ;)
16:44:11 <flo> Mic: it seems you managed to use bugzilla then ;)
16:44:14 <Mic> Bugzilla is usable again as you might have noticed ;)
16:44:48 <aleth> Mic: It's a great idea. Good on you, I would have thought it would be really difficult. Mozilla might not even mind the load on their servers unless Instantbird _really_ takes off?
16:45:17 <Mic> I don't remember what their terms of usage say on this.
16:45:19 <flo> aleth: if it _really_ takes off, they will can to say "Mozilla Instantbird" anyway ;)
16:45:27 <aleth> haha :)
16:45:35 <flo> *will want
16:48:14 <flo> "according to my activity monitor, adium currently sits at 45MB. someone on the previous comments says instantbird is running on his computer at 65MB. " that's a totally stupid comment
16:49:14 <Mic> We just need to make it more awesome.. to get a sort of Apple-effect: being able to sell them anything for any price :P
16:49:51 <clokep_lunch> flo: The original comment is in there somewhere...."Installed it and activated AIM and Google Talk. Fired up task manager and it says it is om nomming 66 meg of memory. Digsby &/or pidgin runs at under 30 meg, and trillian runs around 15 meg. So maybe InstaBird is not so lightweight after all... "
16:50:20 <flo> yeah, but it's completely stupid to compare memory usage without having the same number of accounts
16:50:35 <Mic> It's completely stupid in general
16:50:49 <flo> instantbird takes almost always over 100MB for me. But I use it with 20 accounts at once, and lots of conversations...
16:51:30 <flo> if I take Pidgin with only 1 account and a 2 lines conversation, I would be really really surprised to see it take more memory :)
16:51:45 <clokep_lunch> Yup! :)
16:52:19 <flo> another massively retweeted article: http://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/463571:youve-got-firefox-in-my-pidgin-instantbird-10-launches
16:52:37 <Mic> We should create typewith.me integration/whiteboard integration/content preview (watch Youtube videos and stuff inside of conversations, right where the link was posted) and awesomeness like this and then ask: now what about your Pidgin/AIM/Trillian? Do you really care for memory usage now when a platform allows such great stuff?
16:54:05 <clokep_lunch> "Take, for example, notification of Nick use in IRC. Most clients are configured to notify users when their nick is used in conversation or at least make it easy to configure this. That's not a feature Instantbird comes with by default. You can add this with an Add-on — but it seems to me that should be a core feature of any IRC/IM client." is just wrong. :(
16:54:07 <flo> "I did notice a few minor features were missing or required Add-ons to get working. Take, for example, notification of Nick use in IRC. Most clients are configured to notify users when their nick is used in conversation or at least make it easy to configure this. That's not a feature Instantbird comes with by default." WTF???
16:54:14 <flo> ahah :)
16:54:33 <clokep_lunch> I'm pretty sure the description says to make other words seem like your nick.
16:54:53 <clokep_lunch> Paragraph after that is totally wrong too.
16:55:01 <flo> we should definitely email for a fix of that article!
16:56:39 <clokep_lunch> You want to do it, or would you like me?
16:56:46 <clokep_lunch> (You probably should. I have a meeting in 10 minutes.)
16:57:12 <flo> ok, I will
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17:00:39 <clokep_lunch> I do like that he specifies trying it only on Linux though. :)
17:00:59 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 872 filed by aletheia2@fastmail.fm.
17:01:06 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=872 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Incorrect text on "Get Add-ons" page
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17:06:33 <clokep_lunch> Sametime we just don't support cause you need to download the dev kit, right?
17:14:15 <flo> sent
17:15:08 <flo> clokep_lunch: we removed Sametime for 0.1.2 because it depends on another library that was too lazy to package + there wasn't enough usage for it to be worth it.
17:15:28 <flo> It would definitely be possible to package Pidgin's sametime plugin as an addon, or to integrate the plugin again in the future.
17:15:31 <flo> If we decide we care.
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17:16:45 <flo> there are more and more people following the "instantbird" twitter account
17:16:57 <flo> should we post there to ask that people vote for us on digg / slashdot ?
17:22:57 <flo> I've added some rewrite rules so that URLs like  https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/263 displays the "over capacity" message too instead of a 404 error.
17:28:22 <Mic> aleth: we have different content for the get-addons-page but it gets lost under some circumstances .. what you see in this case is the Firefox text iirc.
17:28:54 <Mic> The customized text indeed include a link to the addons-page.
17:28:59 <Mic> *includes
17:30:34 <flo> there's not enough info in bug 872 to know how to reproduce/fix the issue
17:30:38 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=872 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Incorrect text on "Get Add-ons" page
17:31:47 <Mic> And didn't we have another bug on this already? Atleast I remember talk about this problem in here..
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17:32:30 <flo> last time we saw a similar report, it was caused by a broken localization of our customized page
17:32:43 <flo> but in the report it seems to be an en-US instantbird, so definitely not the same bug...
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17:34:22 <aleth> I'm not sure what information I could add to allow you to fix the issue - what would you like to know? There is no indication it is even trying to load a webpage.
17:34:25 <Mic> I think it was something like "works the first time when opening the addon manager, broken when opening it the next time".
17:34:45 <flo> do we have a bug filed for the "no way to reopen timeline" issue?
17:34:53 <Mic> I just tried and it worked the first time and the next time it was broken
17:35:01 <Mic> Can anyone confirm this?
17:37:05 <flo> hey, if I post a comment on a gravatar-enabled blog, will people notice that my avatar is the same as the image on the picture of the post? :-D
17:38:31 <cartman> hahah
17:38:35 <Mic> Hopefully :)
17:38:50 <cartman> yesh its that instantbird guy :P
17:41:50 <Mic> bbl, watching women's soccer worldcup now :)
17:42:28 <aleth> flo: you might become an internet meme
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17:46:32 * flo remembers when he talked to Even Sunday about getting an emergency plan to react in case our server gets seriously overloaded and he replied I was just dreaming and wasting time.
17:46:35 * flo smiles.
17:48:42 <cartman> flo: I am surprised you are not under Mozilla umbrella
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17:50:47 <flo> cartman: lots of people share this sentiment ;).
17:51:41 <cartman> because when I first heard of ib I thought it was evolved from chatzilla
17:51:51 <cartman> which was under Mozilla umbrella for long
17:52:24 <flo> and which doesn't evolve (quickly) ;à
17:52:26 <flo> *;)
17:55:50 <cartman> it was mostly crap :D
17:56:57 <flo> it's not politically correct for me to say that :-P
17:57:13 <cartman> LOL
17:57:30 * cartman saw it first in 2000 :P
17:57:37 <cartman> something
17:57:46 <cartman> I guess its dead now
17:58:06 <flo> nah, it's still the same
17:58:35 <cartman> :D walking dead
17:58:43 <flo> I'll go eat something. Will try to be back in about an hour.
17:58:49 <flo> Don't break our servers in the meantime please!
18:00:01 <flo> emailing me may work to reach me during that time
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18:05:23 <clokep_lunch> flo: Yes there's a bug about not reopneing the timeline I believe I filed it.
18:05:26 <clokep_lunch> Well I think there's a bug.
18:05:53 <clokep_lunch> And no, we did not evolve from ChatZilla and I'll leave it at that. :P
18:06:32 <clokep_lunch> Did we email that linux.com author? :)
18:08:26 <flo> I did
18:08:51 <clokep_lunch> Just following up. ;)
18:08:55 <clokep_lunch> That was a fast hour btw.
18:09:00 <flo> clokep_lunch: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/842
18:09:25 <flo> I'm arranging another mirror for our main website "just in case" we get even more load
18:10:10 <flo> and now I'm really going to eat.
18:10:16 <flo> Back later
18:12:45 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 873 filed by ezequiel.bruni@gmail.com.
18:12:48 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=873 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Facebook Status Update
18:14:19 --> deOmega has joined #instantbird
18:14:44 <deOmega> Goood  day birders!
18:15:01 <Mic> Hi deOmega :)
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18:16:14 <deOmega> i see there is an over capaciuty problem,  and a mention by lifehacker
18:16:23 <clokep_lunch> They might be related. ;)
18:16:40 <deOmega> :)
18:30:04 <deOmega> regarding growl for windows.. I think Geekshadow  has experience with that  :)
18:30:36 <deOmega> I am pretty sure he did something like that for songbird
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18:33:08 <clokep_lunch> Oh? Interesting.
18:33:35 <clokep_lunch> Yeah I'm pretty sure Mic is correct though that you should be able ot just replace the component and boom you're done and everything for every Moz app will work.
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18:48:51 <Mic> instantbot: uuid
18:48:52 <instantbot> ec67a730-00b2-40c4-b4fb-8321ff0f6e12 (/msg instantbot cid for CID form)
18:51:29 <deOmega> Snarl and Growl basically the same, no?
18:52:03 <clokep_lunch> Snarl != Growl for Windows
18:52:35 <deOmega> ok
18:52:51 <clokep_lunch> But I have no idea either way. :_D
18:52:52 <clokep_lunch> :-D
18:53:55 <clokep_lunch> Bah I'm clearly no longer at lunch.
18:53:57 <deOmega> enlightening either way :0
18:53:59 * clokep_lunch is now known as clokep_work
18:54:11 <deOmega> hahaha
18:54:25 <deOmega> someone is not usiing their status reminder addon?
18:54:53 <clokep_work> Someone is using Mibbit. ;)
18:55:06 <clokep_work> Although With JS-IRC I want to add a "Change nick when away" option.
18:55:18 <deOmega> lol
18:56:11 <deOmega> status reminder is really pretty cool
18:56:34 <clokep_work> Yes, it should be in core. ;)
18:58:05 <deOmega> yeah,  you know, so many things used to give me a headache with messaging.. one of them is that i had to   get better discipline.. however, many of them were helped with IB.  SO  i am grateful
19:00:10 <deOmega> hey clokep, make an addon to show ridiculously low memory usage, to help out those concerned.
19:00:38 <deOmega> I never understood why people make it  such an obsession if yoru computer and the  app is working fine
19:01:49 <clokep_work> :P
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19:01:55 <clokep_work> I mean I guess if you're playing games and stuff.
19:02:01 <clokep_work> But you can't IM and play games at the same time?
19:02:02 <clokep_work> So...
19:02:15 <deOmega> ha, one of teh programs i use everyday, just noticed, it is using over 400,000k
19:03:08 <Mic> Maybe it's just the Pawlow reflexes.. they see a new application and boom, there it is.. start complaining about memory usage.
19:03:32 <deOmega> BUt if you are gaming and so close to teh threshold that u worry about so little.. then .. maybe a new pc is in order
19:06:23 <clokep_work> Mmmhmm.
19:07:19 <deOmega> however.. i do not mean to be insensitive to  others' predicament... just seems like there is a lot of worry where there ought to be none.. reading these  posts.... and most of them  seem to be from Firefox enthusiasts, yet, they are not appreciating the similar flexibility  features in IB.
19:07:45 <deOmega> I do not see how it can be compared to Pidgin.. and someone wanted no borders etc...  i am sure they can make that
19:07:47 <deOmega> oh well
19:07:50 <flo> deOmega: hello :)
19:08:13 <flo> while walking I thought "hey, it's surprising that deOmega is missing to the party!" ;)
19:08:32 <clokep_work> Haha.
19:09:09 <deOmega> haha, i got the alert about the server being down, so  first thing i did was check lifehacker feed... saw it and thought....  it's time.
19:09:36 <flo> http://siliconangle.com/blog/2011/06/29/instantbird-feels-like-instant-messaging-in-your-birthday-suit/
19:12:38 <deOmega> now, THAT is a  darn nice read!!!
19:13:30 <flo> it's always nice when people take the time to actually read before writing ;)
19:14:34 <flo> bah, that linux.com article is still not fixed :(
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19:21:47 <deOmega> i gather everyone  wants to see teh stats page for tomorow?
19:22:07 <deOmega> *for today.. tomorrow
19:23:06 <kelopez> I don' tknow
19:25:29 <deOmega> so basically teh servers have to be shit down until the demand eases, or  throttled?
19:25:56 <flo> deOmega: which stats page?
19:26:03 <flo> you mean the update pings.
19:26:04 <flo> ?
19:26:08 <flo> it will probably be low
19:26:13 <deOmega> update pings
19:26:22 <deOmega> oh, why is that?
19:26:23 <flo> the first request is at minimum 24 hours *after* the previous one (or the installation)
19:26:30 <flo> so you need 2 days to see a difference
19:26:50 <deOmega> ah
19:27:00 <flo> tomorrow we will see people who installed 1.0 yesterday
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19:27:30 <deOmega> ohh.  interesting
19:28:51 <flo> by the way, yesterday's count (the value that appeared today) was low (half what we usually have).
19:29:07 <clokep_work> It usually seems to oscillate though I noticed. :)
19:29:13 <deOmega> I noticed that..
19:29:48 <flo> I assume this is because our early adopters (enthusiasts!) saw the release announcement and either installed 1.0 themselves, or clicked "check for updates" (manual update checks are not counted because we have no idea of how many time a day an user checks so it's meaningless)
19:29:59 <flo> clokep_work: it's lower during week-ends
19:30:41 <clokep_work> Yesterday wasn't a weekend. ;)
19:30:47 <flo> and the week-end touches Friday and Monday because of timezone difference (we should try to count on the day it was in the timezone of the person doing the request, rather than the day it was for Instantbird's server if we wanted to eliminate the week-end effect on Monday and Friday's data)
19:30:47 <clokep_work> I meant it seems to oscillate daily too.
19:31:04 <flo> clokep_work: I've just explained my supposition about yesterday
19:31:33 <clokep_work> Ah. I didn't take the Mon-Fri into account, maybe that's what I was seeing in fact.
19:32:21 <deOmega> interesting indeed
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19:35:36 <flo> oh, about:mozilla was today? We should have sent something :-/
19:36:17 <clokep_work> I thought it was at the end of the week?
19:37:20 <flo> I thought it was yesterday and too late anyway :-S
19:41:40 <flo> oh, you replied to our love letter? :)
19:41:48 <clokep_work> Yup!
19:41:56 <clokep_work> I didn't have too much to say besides "Thanks" a bunch of times.
19:42:50 <flo> yeah, just sending some love back :)
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19:44:22 <deOmega> hey,   so in the  emails you all receive...   i saw a great offer about  loaning someone some money.  am I the only one  who  sent in my information?
19:45:01 <flo> is the website slowing down again?
19:45:23 <flo> I see a load of 9 :-S
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19:47:24 <clokep_work> flo: Well I just got a "Erreur 1030 : "Got error 28 from storage engine" (lors de la recherche des posts)" on the blog.
19:48:08 <flo> crap
19:48:28 * deOmega stating for the record i was kidding, but amazed  that teh  spams is still there in the emails.
19:48:46 <flo> that's the disk being full
19:50:29 <clokep_work> Yeah, google Groups kind of suck at letting spam in.
19:53:16 <flo> and I suck at getting a server fixed :(
19:59:53 <clokep_work> :-/
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20:01:42 <igorko> so qnyone ready for porting smiles addon :)  ? I was able to add button to menu for opening panel but button didn't work...
20:01:55 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 874 filed by silnce@me.com.
20:02:00 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=874 min, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Not a biggie..
20:03:09 <igorko> it should be changed to grey pig :) lol
20:03:21 <flo> I don't understand how gzipping a 300MB log file (which now weights only 26MB) reduced the available disk space by 26MB :(
20:04:21 <flo> the blog is back
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20:04:39 <flo> I moved all the apache logs into a different partition
20:05:11 <clokep_work> :)
20:05:31 <flo> and the load of that server seems to be going down
20:05:40 <clokep_work> And it sounds to me like that should have save 274MB. ;)
20:06:27 <flo> what's troubling is now I only have 143MB available on /
20:06:38 <flo> even though I moved out a lot more of old logs :-S
20:07:13 <flo> just in case we get in trouble again: http://www3.instantbird.com/
20:07:48 <flo> instantbot agreed to share his server with another copy of our website ;)
20:07:51 <instantbot> flo: Sorry, I've no idea what 'agreed to share his server with another copy of our website ;)' might be.
20:08:11 <clokep_work> Ah, that was nice of him.!!
20:08:28 <flo> Morian actually owns the server and did the work ;)
20:09:55 <kelopez> another server(s)?
20:10:35 <kelopez> I could host a mirròr :P
20:10:39 <kelopez> mirror *
20:14:27 <flo> if you want to, you just need to unpack http://queze.net/goinfre/ib-1.0-websites.tgz somewhere
20:14:41 <flo> and configure 2 vhosts for it of course
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20:20:12 <deOmega> have agreat evening  guys and congratulations again.  
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21:03:41 <harisund> Are the contents of the profile folder the same across all platforms? I would like to put my profile folder on Dropbox, and use them on any platform I use .. possible? 
21:06:00 <gmoro_> perhaps firefox sync integration ^ :)
21:11:40 <harisund> Could you please explain? I do not understand !!
21:12:14 * flo has just installed tab complete
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21:12:41 <flo> if anybody here complains about the lack of tab completion and is disappointed of not getting it from the currently down add-ons website, it's here: http://queze.net/goinfre/tab_complete-1.0-instantbird.xpi
21:12:48 <aleth> flo: re missing disk space savings, might be due to the size of the blocks on the drive? they can be quite large and if the alignment is unlucky...
21:13:03 <aleth> tab complete is great
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21:14:55 <moonhead> hey guys.  i just installed this from the debian sid repo.  it looks great, but i cannot send a message.  i can receive messages, however.  enter just seems to be a carriage return in my input box.  am i missing a setting or something somewhere?
21:17:05 <aleth> harisund: good question
21:17:59 <aleth> I am not a developer, but I suspect it would work for the log folder at least, as long as you dont have 2 instantbirds running at the same time
21:18:05 <flo> moonhead: can you look in the error console if you see an error?
21:18:11 <flo> (hi! :))
21:18:36 <flo> harisund: I would say it's almost the same (= I would not be surprised if it worked. But you may have some issues)
21:18:40 <moonhead> hi flo.  thanks for responding.  i'll see what i can find.
21:19:15 <flo> anyway, if you put your profile folder on dropbox, ensure you don't have several instances of Instantbird running on the same profile but on different machine, it would almost certainly corrupt files of the profile
21:21:22 <moonhead> flo, there may be a couple of errors that are relevant.  i'll pastebin.
21:23:00 <moonhead> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/844
21:23:18 <aleth> Btw if anyone complains about how they would prefer certain windows to be borderless or without titlebar or whatever, and they are on linux, this is achievable in KDE (and in compiz on gnome) by defining the appropriate setting for that window. Though am not sure why you would want to...
21:23:24 <flo> moonhead:  :(
21:23:47 <flo> the conversation binding is completely broken in the installation you have.
21:23:49 <flo> do you have add-ons?
21:24:00 <moonhead> flo, no addons.  just straight off repo.
21:24:17 <flo> then they shipped something that doesn't work at all I'm afraid :(
21:24:57 <moonhead> hmm.  i suppose i could compile source mahself
21:25:13 <moonhead> not to mention the sound is broken too
21:25:40 <flo> could this be an issue of running a 32bit binary on a 64bits OS?
21:27:25 <moonhead> hmm,  it is a 64 bit os
21:27:32 <moonhead> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/843
21:28:26 <flo> so you installed Instantbird 0.2 ?
21:30:48 <moonhead> haha.  apparently i did.  i wasn't paying attention.  i just saw the 1 out front
21:32:27 <aleth> that would have been a really quick repo update
21:32:37 <moonhead> agreed.
21:32:56 <flo> Mic: do we have a bug on the missing accesskey on the menus?
21:33:01 <flo> *accesskeys
21:40:41 <Mic> Are profiles really exchangable over OS?
21:41:47 <Mic> I remember seeing absolute path values in a file somewhere there?
21:42:05 <Mic> What accesskeys should be missing on the menus, flo?
21:42:17 <flo> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content/menus.xul#71
21:42:22 <flo> "File" has an accesskey
21:42:38 <aleth> Mic: the log folder (which is key) should be fine, right? its just plain text
21:42:38 <flo> but "addbuddy", "joinchat" and lots of others don't
21:42:47 <flo> aleth: yes.
21:42:55 <Mic> flo, I just saw it
21:43:06 <Mic> That's bad, I can't remember noticing this before
21:43:29 <aleth> and why would you want to sync anything other than the log folder
21:43:45 <flo> aleth: the accounts, password, contact list tags, etc...
21:44:00 <aleth> oh ok
21:45:45 <aleth> I definitely vote for the Firefox Sync solution for that one
21:45:52 <aleth> if its doable...
21:46:05 <Mic> flo: unfortunately it's rather ugly .. 
21:46:33 <Mic> iirc we'll need to reassign the ids for accounts/contacts/ ..
21:47:04 <Mic> If anything goes wrong there then you really broke your profile :(
21:51:15 <flo> what's ugly?
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21:57:18 <aleth> somebody else unwittingly suffering from bug 872: https://twitter.com/#!/bbgameruk/status/86178694195978240
21:57:22 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=872 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Incorrect text on "Get Add-ons" page
21:58:02 <flo> what would you all think of making a trivially small HTML page a link to the XPI file of each really interesting add-on. So that people don't miss on the ability to have add-ons for 1.0?
22:00:36 <aleth> you mean, to host on a different server?
22:00:46 <flo> on the "over capacity" page
22:00:48 <aleth> or for people who come in here?
22:01:43 <aleth> do you think the overcapacity will last that long?
22:02:26 <flo> do how know how many websites will copy/paste the lifehacker news?
22:02:42 <aleth> i have no idea
22:02:42 <flo> (I don't!)
22:03:33 <aleth> so you are asking, does anyone else have hosting space for addons?
22:03:43 <flo> no
22:04:02 <flo> I'm asking if people if worth spending our time creating that page
22:04:09 <flo> +think it's
22:04:22 <flo> (and maybe if someone is volunteering for it :))
22:05:48 <aleth> I don't know, after all it can't give the a overview to anyone wanting to browse the range of addons etc
22:06:05 <aleth> might be better for people to come back later and see it properly
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22:07:37 <aleth> I think I'd say host the whole addons site somewhere else, temporarily, or not at all
22:09:53 --> hunsly has joined #instantbird
22:10:14 <aleth> In a way it's not so bad - it suggests to who sees it that there is a buzz around this release.... lots of demand...
22:11:49 <EionRobb> can you host the addons on google sites?
22:15:07 <flo> we can host them ourselves
22:15:13 <flo> we aren't out of bandwidth
22:15:27 <flo> the over capacity problem is more related to CPU resources ;)
22:16:13 <flo> aleth: "host the whole addons site somewhere else" that's a HUGE task. It's a very complicated website
22:17:01 <aleth> right, I kinda suspected that...
22:22:45 <Mic> Good night
22:23:00 <Mic> And good luck with the servers
22:23:56 <Mic> Remind me of the 'ugly' tomorrow, flo
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22:28:11 <hunsly> hi
22:28:15 <hunsly> launchpad.net translate?
22:28:29 <flo> hunsly: hello :)
22:32:21 <clokep> flo Mic harisund aleth I would guess that you can share the profile across OS, I used to do this with Thunderbird+Lightning (with a hacked together multi-OS lightning), it *should* be OK, as long as you let it sync first, etc.
22:33:41 <flo> I'm not sure it's really worth replying to that person on twitter who says instantbird sucks because it uses the Mozilla build system
22:34:10 <clokep> As much trouble as I had with it...it's probably one of the easier build systems I've used.
22:34:15 <clokep> But I'm going to go with "not worth replying" :)
22:35:15 <flo> all of that because it includes libraries instead of picking those that may be available in the system
22:37:43 * clokep is thinking of how to give you a bunch of makefiles...
22:37:54 <flo> do you use dropbox?
22:38:10 <clokep> I do in fact.
22:38:16 <flo> maybe you could implement file transfer, and then send me the files over XMPP? :-P
22:38:16 <clokep> One second though.
22:38:25 <clokep> Hahah.
22:38:52 <flo> (I would probably hate receiving a makefile through XMPP file transfer by the way :-D)
22:38:59 <clokep> I was thinking of just throwing them into a subfolder of the experiments repo actually. ;)
22:40:12 <flo> posts on PMO that don't finish some of their tags suck :(
22:40:24 <flo> maybe someday we should include <!-- at the end of a post? :-P
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22:46:18 <clokep> flo: http://hg.instantbird.org/experiments/file/c14657168bf3/sipe
22:47:23 <krewdoyle> Hello everyone, I'm fairly new to Linux but I have a system running Windows 7 and Linux Mint on separate partitions. Is there a way to synchronize profiles/logs between these partitions? I'm not very familiar with using the command line and such.
22:48:11 <clokep> If there's a shared directory, etc. you could in theory point the profile there, but somethings might breka.
22:48:41 <aleth> Sharing the log files should be unproblematic as you wont be using Linux and Windows at the same time
22:48:50 <krewdoyle> Oh yes, I have a third partition to store data (documents, photos, videos etc.)
22:49:53 <flo> aleth: even if using them at the same time, I don't think there would be any problem. The files all have a timestamp in their name + we only append data to them.
22:50:00 <aleth> Not sure IB has a way to customize the location of the log file dir though
22:50:16 <clokep> You can customize the location of the profile.
22:50:20 <flo> aleth: the file that would really be problematic if used from several locations at once would be the contacts database IMHO
22:50:32 <aleth> But then you are sharing the whole profile, which is more risky
22:50:44 <flo> aleth: if you are on linux, a symlink is enough to customize the location of any dir ;)
22:51:15 <aleth> flo: sure ;) I was trying to answer krewdoyle
22:51:37 <aleth> but actually you make a good point, it would be enough to symlink the dir in linux to the windows partition
22:52:27 <flo> apparently there's some significant demand for better logs and sync'ing them :)
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23:01:17 <krewdoyle> If I customize the location of the profile to a shared directory accessible from both partitions, are the logs stored there as well?
23:03:28 <clokep> Yes.
23:04:32 <krewdoyle> Thanks a lot for the quick replies! I'm off to try it out
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23:07:14 <flo> clokep: http://queze.net/goinfre/instantbird-1.0.download-count.txt
23:07:19 <flo> updated every hour
23:07:42 <clokep> Is there supposed to be just one number there? ;)
23:07:50 <clokep> (As in, is that every hour from now on out?)
23:08:14 <flo> it's the sum of all the numbers on the google page
23:08:20 <clokep> OK! :)
23:08:21 <flo> I just decided you no longer need Excel ;)
23:08:46 <flo> and my 1 line shell script to get this value is extremely fragile :)
23:09:02 <flo> but as long as it works for a day or two, that's OK with me :)
23:09:15 <clokep> Hahah, nice. :)
23:09:21 <clokep> Excel was just convenient! Copy &amp; paste, sum. :)
23:09:25 <clokep> I almost used MATLAB.
23:11:49 <aleth> talk about overkill...
23:12:13 * aleth has used mathematica as a pocket calculator too
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23:14:36 <aleth> What do you think about the idea (for an add-on) for a buddy list inside the conversation window (maybe as a dropdown from the tab bar)? 
23:15:18 <aleth> Hmm probably impractical when you have too many contacts
23:15:41 <flo> aleth: what's the goal/use case?
23:16:40 <aleth> flo: one less window floating around
23:16:55 <flo> why don't you just minimize it?
23:16:59 <aleth> I do
23:17:13 <aleth> Am not sure it's a good idea, hence my question
23:17:43 <aleth> It would definitely not be good as the only option
23:18:30 <aleth> Maybe a contact list in an app tab...
23:21:12 <flo> so why does this script creates a correct file when run from my terminal, and an empty file when run from cron? :(
23:21:41 <aleth> does it depend on things in .bashrc?
23:24:29 <flo> the $PATH environment variable apparently
23:24:43 <flo> I added the full path to curl and now it works with an empty environment
23:26:05 <flo> ok, now it really works
23:26:10 <flo> and over 7000 already :)
23:27:03 <aleth> wow thats good going
23:27:55 <clokep> :)
23:28:27 <clokep> So if half of them try it and 20% of those keep it, we'll have doubled our population. ;)
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23:34:11 <flo> which still means not that many people
23:34:19 <flo> we need to do better
23:34:23 <flo> especially on localized builds!
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23:39:41 <deOmega> :).. I am excited to see the demands for 'better' logs :).  It really is an important piece to  communicating.
23:40:43 <deOmega> But, though I do not have a need for  fancy access.. i have the need for  global search, and pulling up the log without having to  select a name first :)
23:41:48 <deOmega> 7k is nice bump
23:44:55 <flo> deOmega: 7k downloads, not users ;)
23:45:11 <flo> usually only half the downloads result in someone actually trying it.
23:45:24 <flo> and people trying it don't necessarily keep it for more than a few minutes
23:46:07 <aleth> you could count update pings? see how many 1.0 copies are in use?
23:46:16 <deOmega> but  i am  assuming that exposure.. even someone testing it..  will lead to more mentions and subsequent users.
23:46:24 <flo> aleth: not until 24hours after installation
23:46:28 <flo> we do count update pings
23:47:01 <flo> aleth: http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/stats/
23:47:20 <aleth> neat
23:48:01 <aleth> quite a spike in august, what happened then?
23:48:09 <aleth> s/spike/slope change
23:48:11 <flo> the effect of the lifehacker post won't be visible there until Friday
23:48:26 <flo> aleth: the 0.2 release in mid-july
23:48:41 <flo> 0.1.3 was... well... not really usable ;)
23:49:54 <flo> anyway... I should already be in my bed and dreaming and I'm still at the office... "time" to go.
23:49:58 <deOmega> where is morian? Isn't school out?
23:50:27 <flo> good evening/night :) (don't break the servers while I'm away/asleep!)
23:50:38 <clokep> Goodnight!
23:50:41 <deOmega> night flo
23:50:53 <deOmega> addons site is still down, no?
23:51:00 <flo> we closed it
23:51:15 <flo> to ensure the bugzilla and wiki stays usable
23:51:25 <deOmega> i do not understand. ah, ok
23:51:35 <deOmega> how long, until tomorrow?
23:51:50 <aleth> night!
23:51:52 <flo> until we feel it's safe to reopen
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23:52:14 <deOmega> either way, sound slike a godo problem to have.. on one hand
23:52:27 <aleth> just saw a rss entry that there will be significant memory usage improvements in FF7
23:52:42 <aleth> that might feed through to you too eventually?
23:52:55 <clokep> Some of it I'm sure.
23:52:59 <aleth> (for those who think 40M is too much ;)
23:54:25 <aleth> hard to predict, hard to care
23:54:54 <deOmega> Alright guys, have a great evening too, i am  finished coding for the night
23:56:00 <clokep> Coding?! What're you coding up? ;)
23:56:31 <deOmega> haha, i cannot even make up a lie
23:56:38 <deOmega> i was trying too
23:57:01 <deOmega> clokep:   have a great evening  :)
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23:57:29 <clokep> Goodnight! Let us know if you need some help.