#instantbird log on 06 27 2011

All times are UTC.

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07:12:15 <Mic> Good morning
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07:13:03 <Mic> pff, the rightmost button doesn't seem to be the "I don't care about the update"-one :D
07:29:40 <Mic> There's a "Comment successfully added. It won't be visible on the website until an administrator reads it." shows on top of the page when writing a comment on the blog. It looks out of place since it moves the page header around.
07:30:07 <Mic> Ah, I will file a bug instead.
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07:34:15 <instantbot> New Websites - www.instantbird.org bug 854 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
07:34:17 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=854 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Blog: "comment added" notification
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08:17:08 * flo wonders if he should be worried by the screenshot situation
08:28:14 <Mic> Are so little screenshots ready so far?
08:28:23 <Mic> Sorry, I couldn't help  :(
08:28:36 <Mic> *few
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08:45:27 <flo> Mic: only a part of the winaero screenshots are on www-staging.
08:45:36 <flo> no idea of the state of the others
08:46:03 <flo> ("others" here means the few winaero that are missing, + the XP/Mac/Ubuntu ones)
08:46:57 <flo> the raw images I took from my macbook are at http://queze.net/goinfre/ib-1.0-screenshots/
08:47:32 <flo> I have the raw ubuntu images vicnet took in my email box (I was CC'ed on the email to FeuerFliege)
08:47:50 <flo> these images all need some editing
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08:52:00 <flo> I wish I had a command line tool that would take an image, make the color of the top-left pixel transparent, including alpha transparency (so that the shadow looks good) and then crop the image to remove the parts that end up fully transparent
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08:58:42 <Mic> Do you add the shadows or are they on the screenshot already? What is this about making the top-left pixel transparent? I don't understand..
08:59:45 <flo> I would like a tool that would automatically keep the shadow but remove the white backgroun
08:59:45 <flo> d
08:59:55 <Mic> I think it can be done
09:00:02 <flo> http://blog.instantbird.org/images/userIconPlaceholder.png for images like this for example
09:01:05 <Mic> Not only for shadows but for Aero glass too.
09:02:33 <flo> I don't have any aero glass screenshot needeing that
09:02:52 <flo> the screenshots FeuerFliege has uploaded already have a good transparency I think
09:02:58 <flo> and I can't edits images I don't have ;)
09:06:23 <Mic> What if we'd had a system that would allow to define "scene"s (something simple: an object that holds a list of windows defined by their window-class (you only need to use the window manager to find them) and a list of attributes to set on them (height, width, position), that could take the screenshots and dump them into the profile folder (maybe zipping all resulting images into one file already?)
09:06:45 <Mic> This would make things considerably easier in my opinion.
09:07:11 <flo> + would be fully cross-platform and able to run on the buildbot slaves ;
09:07:12 <Mic> (On windows you can trigger a screenshot via an API and receive the screenshot on the clipboard)
09:07:14 <flo> ;)
09:07:37 <Mic> Taking two screenshots with different background colors allows to capture transparency as well.
09:07:39 <flo> on mac/linux you just need to use a command line tool to take a screenshot
09:07:47 <flo> and you give it the path of where you want it saved
09:08:22 <Mic> If I'm not mistaken, the color of the pixel is calculated by "val = (background pixel value) * (1 - opacity) + (foreground pixel value * opacity)" for each color component
09:09:42 <Mic> You take one on white and one on black background, take the difference (white screenshot value) minus (black screenshot value) for each pixel and normalize it to white (255) that's the opacity of this pixel
09:10:35 <Mic> You can then calculate the output image. Lots of pixel work but I think it's what html:canvas is for.
09:11:19 <Mic> *"and that's the opacity"
09:12:18 <Mic> The black and white background would be a fullscreen window with the respective background color that is shown placed below the scene
09:12:29 <Mic> Ah, so many ideas .. :D
09:14:52 <flo> ok ^^
09:15:00 <flo> oops, wrong window
09:16:46 <flo> ok, I'm going to drive to the office. Back in an hour or two. I hope I'll gave good surprises (new locales ready on the website? More screenshots on www-stating?) waiting for me by then :)
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11:08:23 <FeuerFliege> sry for the delay with the screenshots. I will upload a few over the next few hours (have less time than I thought) and I will finish the rest this evening after work.
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12:15:52 <FeuerFliege> flo: hi
12:15:58 <flo> hello :)
12:17:32 <flo> so you think you will have time to finish it all today? :)
12:27:41 <clokep_work> Hmm...the name is repeated 3 times, but I feel like that screenshot just doesn't illustrate it well. :-/ (With multiple tabs you can at least see the separation a bit more.)
12:27:48 <clokep_work> But I wonder if we really do need the extra name & dot.
12:28:12 <flo> that screenshot is the worse case and shouldn't have end up on the blog
12:28:27 <flo> that's what you get when preparing posts in the middle of the night without proofreading... ;)
12:28:31 <flo> *worst
12:31:41 <clokep_work> Mmhmm. We can change it if we wanted. ;)
12:32:14 <flo> we would better prepare what's next
12:32:18 <flo> the screenshots of the website
12:32:20 <flo> the blog posts
12:32:26 <flo> I need to post today the announce of the version number change
12:32:42 <flo> it will appear right in the middle of a giant troll about Mozilla's rapid release system :(
12:35:51 <clokep_work> Bleh. :-/ But we're not doing the same thing as them from last time I remember talking abou tit?
12:36:29 <flo> we don't actually know what we are going to do. But we need to announce "something".
12:37:50 <clokep_work> :)
12:37:55 <FeuerFliege> flo: screenshots will be finished today
12:38:14 <flo> do you have everything that you need for all the OSes?
12:55:14 <flo> http://techcrunch.com/submit-profile/ hmm, do you think it's more efficient to use the "News Tips" part (and sending something anonymously) or to fill the "Submit your profile" form?
12:55:56 <FeuerFliege> flo: I think I have everything
13:01:14 <FeuerFliege> As far as I get it the pix should float to the right corner, but they don't. You can see it best with a mac useragent
13:01:54 <flo> which page?
13:02:13 <FeuerFliege> feature
13:02:30 <FeuerFliege> http://www-staging.instantbird.com/features.html
13:02:42 <flo> I don't see the problem
13:02:48 <flo> is it specifically on a picture?
13:03:25 <FeuerFliege> mom
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13:06:57 <flo> I'm not sure if I've explained this yet or not (or if this was something you could guess), but for the picture for "Smart contacts" where there's currently "FIXME" written, I thought we would show an expanded contact. http://queze.net/goinfre/ib-1.0-screenshots/Image%2091.png was taken for that.
13:08:24 <FeuerFliege> I know.
13:08:30 <flo> :)
13:10:43 <FeuerFliege> http://files.florian-janssen.de/rightcorner.png
13:10:53 <FeuerFliege> look at the right corner of the pix
13:11:10 <FeuerFliege> ah not corner but edge
13:11:27 <FeuerFliege> esp. conversations in tabs
13:22:29 <flo> hmm, I don't see what's wrong exactly :-S
13:23:19 <instantbot> New Websites - www.instantbird.com bug 855 filed by michal.stanke@mikk.cz.
13:23:23 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=855 maj, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, website font
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13:27:10 <igorko> hi
13:27:34 <igorko> have question: should i set up Firefox for developing extensions? or instantbird?
13:30:28 <instantbot> New Websites - www.instantbird.com bug 856 filed by michal.stanke@mikk.cz.
13:30:32 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=856 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, make protocol links "localizable"
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13:42:50 <FeuerFliege> so smart contact pix uploaded
13:43:23 <FeuerFliege> i think only screenshot homepage and windows xp are missing
13:43:49 <flo> I'll need to change the html of the press-images page it seems :)
13:44:13 <flo> I think I'll add a "press-image-0.2" page to keep the old screenshots "possibly visible"
13:44:41 <flo> would you like to have a similar page for your DE screenshots, or do you plan to just email them to potentially interested journalists?
13:45:29 <FeuerFliege> it would be nice to have it there
13:45:39 <FeuerFliege> i must go
13:45:56 <FeuerFliege> for a few hours, i will finish the rest at home
13:46:00 <FeuerFliege> bye
13:46:59 <FeuerFliege> btw I called the smart contact pix [OS]-smart-contacts.png
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13:47:23 <flo> sounds good, thanks!
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13:51:18 <igorko> flo could you add combobox to site for language changing?
13:51:27 <igorko> to main page
13:51:40 <igorko> "for noobs" tm
13:51:49 <flo> maybe
13:51:57 <flo> is the language misdetected for you?
13:52:16 <igorko> in chrome it works. In maxthon it doesn't
13:52:31 <flo> maxthon is a piece of crap :(
13:52:51 <flo> but as it's based on IE (another piece of crap), the problem may exist for lots of people :(
13:54:34 <igorko> yep IE8 doesn't detect language
13:56:01 <flo> igorko: can you test something for me?
13:56:11 <igorko> sometimes using crap is usefull ;) (because i made test ;))
13:56:20 <igorko> what?
13:56:33 <flo> go to http://www-staging.instantbird.com/test.php with that IE, and tell me what's in the line "HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE " of the "Apache Environment" table
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13:59:35 <aleth> Hi! Newbie question: how do I install add-ons? i.e. where do I put the .xpi file?
13:59:58 <aleth> Tried unpacking it into subdirs of the extensions directory, no success
14:00:24 <flo> from the add-on manager
14:00:58 <aleth> how?
14:01:03 <flo> click the button next to the searchbox, then "Install Add-on from file..." in the menu
14:01:19 <igorko> flo HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE  uk-UA  
14:01:20 <aleth> ah, thanks
14:01:34 <flo> thanks! does "UA" mean anything to you?
14:02:19 <flo> igorko: can you also give me the result for the browser that worked (Chrome I think?)
14:03:04 <aleth> I don't suppose it would be possible to set up firefox so it adds those files to instantbird automatically when downloaded?
14:03:19 <aleth> would be more discoverable
14:03:29 <flo> aleth: currently no. In the future maybe. I would like if this could "just work" ;)
14:04:04 <igorko> uk is language code, UA is County code. It's doubled language definition according to http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/gettext.html
14:04:24 <clokep_work> Wouldn't be too bad to do, we just need to use a custom protocol handler. We hsould file a bug about that...
14:04:27 <flo> igorko: I know the AB-CD code meaning, thanks
14:04:53 <flo> it's just that for uk I would expect it to be uk-UK (we have es-ES, fr-FR, ...)
14:05:14 <igorko> chrome gives HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE	uk-UA,uk;q=0.8,ru;q=0.6,en-US;q=0.4,en;q=0.2
14:05:16 <aleth> Another thing I struggled with was getting into this chatroom. Of course I know IRC, but I naively expected opening the irc://... link from the instantbird about page with instantbird would open this chatroom window
14:05:26 <aleth> Instead it fails to do anything - not even an error message
14:05:44 <igorko> language- UKrainian. Country- UkrAine
14:05:46 <aleth> This despite the fact irc.mozilla.org does not require signup
14:06:14 <flo> igorko: ok, thanks :)
14:06:26 <aleth> For people with no IRC experience they will have no easy way of reaching you for support questions and/or suggestions
14:06:46 <igorko> firefox gives the same result as chrome- HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE 	uk,ru;q=0.8,en-us;q=0.5,en;q=0.3 
14:06:58 <flo> I'll try to fix our algorithm to decide that if the browser wants "AB-CD" and we don't have "AB-CD" but we do have "AB", then "AB" is better than a "en-US" fallback
14:07:00 <igorko> hm- nope- little different
14:07:10 <flo> igorko: it's configurable in the preferences
14:07:28 <flo> the Firefox/Chrome behavior is the expected behavior. IE is being stupid here
14:08:15 <flo> this is supposed to be a list of languages the user is likely to understand, with decreasing preference. Listing a single value is lame.
14:08:22 <flo> I'll try to fix this on our side anyway
14:09:02 <clokep_work> aleth: We haven't implemented protocol handlers yet, so irc:// or other links (for other protocols) will not work.
14:09:41 <clokep_work> It's something we want (we have a bug about it), but it hasn't been done yet.
14:09:42 <aleth> You could maybe put a menu item in the Help menu - "Join support chat" or such
14:09:53 <aleth> (as a workaround)
14:10:21 <flo> bug 855 really sucks
14:10:28 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=855 maj, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, website font
14:11:57 <igorko> flo btw maxthon should use both webkit and Trident by i still don't know how to switch them :)
14:12:04 <igorko> but i*
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14:13:01 <clokep_work> aleth: Perhaps. You can pretty easily create an account for IRC though, although I guess we don't really provide the IRC account configuration on the website.
14:13:09 <igorko> time to google it :)
14:14:32 <aleth> clokep_work: yes indeed, and it is not hard - if you have done it before. It just took a bit of digging to discover where the support chatroom was, and less experienced users might fail at this
14:14:38 <aleth> Another bug (?) I ran into was logging into freenode.net. I am not sure what the password one can specify in the IRC account options is good for. It certainly doesn't take care of NickServ, unfortunately (which has to be done manually)
14:14:55 <clokep_work> aleth: Yes, it takes care of NickServ.
14:15:37 <clokep_work> IRC can request a password for the server, it sends that field as it. Some servers (moznet and freenode) forward that onto NickServ, so it'll auto-auth you.
14:16:20 <aleth> Aha, great! How do I get that to work?
14:17:13 <aleth> Currently I have a password set, but I still get a window from NickServ asking me to typ /msg NickServ ... on connect
14:17:44 <clokep_work> And then it should immediately (well, maybe a few seconds after) say you've been authorized. (I forget the exact wording.)
14:17:56 <clokep_work> (Ah, it's "Password accepted - you are now recognized.")
14:18:01 <clokep_work> It takes a few seconds sometimes.
14:18:38 <clokep_work> But it SHOULD work. :) I use it with a few different freenode accounts + moznet + one other server.
14:20:07 <aleth> Hmm. It does not seem to. Instead there is the message "(notice) irc is not a registered nickname."
14:20:34 <igorko> flo yep- after mode changing maxthon says HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE  uk  and translation works
14:20:45 <igorko> so it's stupid trident :(
14:20:59 <clokep_work> aleth: Then you haven't registered with nickserv yet! :)
14:21:09 <aleth> oh yes i have
14:21:10 <clokep_work> Type /msg nickserv help register
14:21:21 <aleth> After all, if I identify manually it works!
14:21:59 <clokep_work> Then I don't know what's going on, but it sounds like a nickserv problem. Instantbird isn't sending that notice message, the nickserv is.
14:22:31 <aleth> My nickname isn't "irc" either ;)
14:22:57 <clokep_work> Right.
14:23:14 <aleth> I suspect something in the command that Instantbird (0.3 beta) sends is incorrect, for some reason
14:23:16 <clokep_work> I've never seen this behavior before though. I'd probably need a network capture to see exactly what's going on.
14:23:40 <clokep_work> It abides by the specifications. Do you know if it works in Pidgin?
14:24:03 <clokep_work> Unfortunately ever server handles stuff differently. :-/
14:24:07 <aleth> Yes, pidgin is fine
14:24:55 <aleth> I do get a "(notice) This nickname is registered..." message before the "irc is not a valid nick" message
14:24:57 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 857 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
14:25:02 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=857 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Automatically install add-ons from website
14:25:30 <clokep_work> Hmm...I'm not sure what could be happening then, unless you set the account up in a strange way, but there aren't that many options for IRC!
14:25:37 <clokep_work> We use the same backend as Pidgin btw, so if it works in one, it should work in the other.
14:26:05 <aleth> very strange
14:26:13 <aleth> Anyway, other than that am loving Instantbird!
14:26:16 <aleth> Great design.
14:27:50 <clokep_work> :) Thanks!
14:28:06 <clokep_work> Not that I touch the UI. ;) But still.
14:28:11 <flo> Thanks.
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14:29:23 <aleth> Oh, and "Log in/Log out" on Jabber transport contacts is missing, but you will be aware of that...
14:29:45 <clokep_work> What do you mean?
14:30:40 <aleth> Right-clicking on such a contact in pidgin gives a context menu with "Log in" and "Log out"
14:32:59 <clokep_work> What do you mean by "such a contact"?
14:33:51 <flo> clokep_work: a "transport contact" ;)
14:34:32 <flo> a non-XMPP buddy, but visible thanks to an XMPP gateway (which neither Pidgin nor Instantbird support, as we already have built-in support for these protocols)
14:36:30 <clokep_work> flo: Ah, I see. I didn't realize that XMPP had some way of telling clients that a user is logged in via a transport! Hence my confusion.
14:36:37 <aleth> Well, for example msn transports (unneccessary with instantbird of course, but still) one has registered with at the jabber server show up as contacts in Pidgin (and in Instantbird too)
14:37:52 <aleth> Such transports to servers can be present in the contact list, but one is not logged in until one, well, logs in
14:37:58 <clokep_work> Bleh the search on trac sucks.
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14:38:45 <aleth> The non-XMPP buddies flo mentions are a separate thing (though related in the case of transports which are gateways)
14:39:55 <clokep_work> I'm not sure about this aspect, you'll have to see if flo knows. :)
14:39:58 <aleth> There are a lot of jabber transports out there, though I am not sure how many people use them...
14:42:40 <flo> I'm not interested in jabber transports, sorry ;)
14:43:21 <aleth> It was just something I noticed. I certainly wouldnt ask anyone to spend much time implementing them...
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14:45:06 <flo> aleth: feedback is welcome anyway. It may help us to understand faster what the next person with the same thing says :)
14:45:30 <aleth> Sorry I don't know anything much about the interna of jabber transports either... 
14:45:41 <flo> it's ok :)
14:45:50 <aleth> Regarding the IRC Nickserv issue, I have just checked the logfile and it says "Conversation with NickServ at Mon 27 Jun 2011 03:08:18 PM CEST on nickname@irc.freenode.net (irc)". This suggests "irc" is supplied as the nick rather than "nickname". 
14:46:09 <flo> by the way, I may not be as friendly/helpful as usual. I'm quite stressed by all the work that remains for the release ;)
14:46:43 <clokep_work> aleth: Does it actually say "nickname@irc.freenode.net" or did you replace your real nickname by "nickname"?
14:46:54 <aleth> I replaced my real nick there
14:47:04 <aleth> Just to abstract it out and be clear 
14:47:10 <aleth> Is there anywhere in particular I must enter the nick in "Accounts"? I have put it everywhere I can think of
14:47:28 <clokep_work> Your nick is part of the account creation...
14:47:33 <aleth> yes
14:47:47 <aleth> So why does it transmit (irc) rather than (aleth)?
14:47:50 <clokep_work> That's the only place it needs to be entered.
14:47:59 <clokep_work> So the account name is <your nick>@irc.freenode.net
14:48:00 <aleth> At least I am assuming that's whats going on, given the error messager
14:48:11 <clokep_work> I'm not convinced it does, I would need a network capture.
14:48:11 <aleth> Yes, thats what I did
14:48:26 <clokep_work> And I don't know. :) I did not write any of the libpurple code that we use hah.
14:48:41 <clokep_work> If it works with Pidgin (and I know it's working for lot sof people here), it SHOULD work.
14:48:56 <aleth> Odd.
14:48:56 <clokep_work> But I don't have an Instantbird with me right now to check my logs to see if it's the same. :-/
14:49:06 <clokep_work> One second.
14:50:39 <clokep_work> I can't connect, my firewall is blocking it.
14:50:58 <aleth> Thanks for trying!
14:51:23 <aleth> Anyway, one other thing ;) if I could vote for one feature request: a log viewer would be great
14:51:25 <clokep_work> If you want to follow a bug I'll check when I get home tonight. :)
14:51:33 <clokep_work> (I can check anyway...but I might forget. :-D)
14:51:49 <clokep_work> aleth: There is a (in need of love) log viewer!
14:51:52 <clokep_work> Right click > view logs.
14:52:01 <clokep_work> (Is the easiest way to get to it at least.)
14:52:12 <aleth> Hey, thanks!
14:52:32 <aleth> Right click on the tab, rather than the user name 
14:52:44 <aleth> That's why I didn't find it
14:52:49 <clokep_work> Right clicking in the contact list works.
14:53:02 <clokep_work> Or on the tab.
14:53:09 <aleth> Yes, excellent.
14:53:16 <clokep_work> Not sure what you mean by "user name" in this context, you mean at the top of the conversation?
14:53:21 <aleth> yes
14:53:33 <clokep_work> Hmmm...yes, that should probably work.
14:53:43 <aleth> The large bit with the avatar and everything
14:54:09 <clokep_work> Yup yup, would make the UI not as clean, but maybe there should just be a button to open the logs there....
14:54:19 <clokep_work> s/would/wouldn't/
14:54:31 <aleth> Maybe not a button, but an entry in the context menu?
14:54:54 <clokep_work> Yeah, that would be good. File a bug? :) (https://bugzilla.instantbird.org)
14:54:59 <aleth> At present there does not seem to be a context menu
14:56:07 <Mic> There isn't one yet.
14:57:19 <Mic> I was missing something else on the bar a while ago but I can't remember what it was..
14:58:15 <flo> yes please, file a bug :)
14:58:37 <Mic> ah, I think it was "copyable" status messages.
14:59:07 <flo> clickable URLs in it maybe?
14:59:39 <Mic> I think someone had a funny message set and I wanted to copy it. Same problem with links, though
14:59:46 <clokep_work> Clickable URLs I do think we have a bug about! :) But I would really like that.
15:00:07 <Mic> Bug 813 ..
15:00:13 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=813 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Allow to copy status text from the "conv-top-info"
15:00:23 <Mic> .. seems I even filed this :)
15:01:50 <Mic> I'll file the clickable urls too
15:03:43 <flo> the clickable url bug has "interactive" in its summary
15:04:29 <clokep_work> bug 735
15:04:35 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=735 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Links in topic notification bar should be clickable
15:04:37 <Mic> Too late:S
15:04:42 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 858 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
15:04:49 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=858 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, URLs should be clickable in the status text of the user info bar
15:05:45 <Mic> Bugzilla is slow today :(
15:06:03 <flo> it will probably be worse tomorrow ;)
15:06:10 <clokep_work> That's a good thing though, right? :)
15:06:34 <Mic> Hmm, the bugs are all slightly different, though
15:06:35 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 858 to DUPLICATE of bug 735.
15:06:42 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=735 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Links in topic notification bar should be clickable
15:07:05 <Mic> One is about the tooltips, one about the user info and one about clickable URLs
15:08:37 <clokep_work> Bah I hate when I mid-air myself. :(
15:08:47 <clokep_work> The one I dupped it into is the same bug as far as I can tell.
15:11:18 <clokep_work> You can reopen it if it's different, but they seem exactly the same to me (minus the terminology differences, which I just fixed).
15:11:23 <Mic> Ah, you midaired me on the same bug .. I wanted to update the summary 
15:14:39 <clokep_work> Yup, I did update the summary. :)
15:14:52 <clokep_work> At a different time than my comment unfortunately. :(
15:14:54 <flo> I'm already at the third iteration of the patch to fix the language detection on the website :-D
15:14:54 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 859 filed by aletheia2@fastmail.fm.
15:15:03 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=859 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Add context menu to 'conv-top'
15:15:17 * clokep_work is reading people rant about the rapid release cycle.
15:18:11 <Mic> Any discussions with Asa D. participation? They're sometimes fun to read .. even though it might cast a poor light on Mozilla, imo;)
15:18:48 <flo> clokep_work: do you have some spare time? ;)
15:19:02 <clokep_work> Mic: Pretty much all with him, yes.
15:19:06 <clokep_work> flo: Only while my code is compiling.
15:19:26 <clokep_work> Although lunch pretty soon too.
15:19:31 <flo> I've some blog posts to write/draft ;)
15:21:45 <aleth> I have seen some of this debate too, sadly I don't think mozilla comes out of it too well, despite personally liking the idea of a faster cycle.
15:24:01 <clokep_work> flo: Yes, I can look at those. Which ones in particular? I could use some feedback on the "press release" too.
15:24:04 <clokep_work> I had some friends read it though.
15:25:05 <flo> igorko: I've just pushed my changes to our language detection algorithm in an attempt to workaround IE's brokenness. Could you please retest and confirms the website is correctly displayed with the uk locale? :)
15:25:32 <flo> clokep_work: do you know in which format we/you are going to send it?
15:25:56 <flo> are we making a PDF? A plain text email? Putting this on the website, and sending a link?
15:26:00 <clokep_work> flo: A PDF might be more "professional" but everyone hates PDFs. ;)
15:26:27 <clokep_work> I think putting it on the website, sending a plaintext email (+ offering a link saying, "You can find this at....") might be best.
15:27:08 <flo> how much do we want to customize what we send?
15:28:03 <flo> I thought it could be a good idea to find all the journalists/bloggers who have already talked about us (or "competitors") and comment on how we are now on these points
15:30:49 <clokep_work> We could do that. As part of the "press release" or as an addendum?
15:33:17 <flo> in the email giving the link to the PDF/webpage? :)
15:33:21 <flo> as an encouragement to read
15:35:13 <clokep_work> Hmmm...I think if we were to do specific comments on those points it would just be in the email, not on the website somewhere.
15:35:28 <flo> that's what I said :)
15:35:58 <clokep_work> Ah, I misunderstood then!
15:36:33 <clokep_work> So the email would be "Dear blah-blah, You've written a post about Instantbird before (link). We just wnated to inform you that Instantbird 1.0 has been released..."
15:36:37 <clokep_work> I'm going to do this in a separate document. ;)
15:38:13 <flo> I think my release announcement post tomorrow will include most of the first half of the instantbird.org page
15:39:06 <clokep_work> flo: Bottom of http://typewith.me/gq7dCewJJi
15:42:10 <flo> most of this sounds good
15:42:18 <flo> I think you forgot to mention that it's crossplatform
15:42:59 <flo> if you look at what lifehacker wrote (http://lifehacker.com/313545/instantbird-01-is-like-firefox-for-chat) "There are tons of great instant messaging applications available, but one nagging problem in the IM world is that there's no great, fully cross-platform chat app (unless you count Meebo)."
15:43:26 <clokep_work> Fair enough. :)
15:43:43 <clokep_work> I kind of added it to the top paragraph, not sure it sounds great though. :-/
15:47:36 <clokep_work> Ah, "Although Instantbird is cross-platform, we strive to present a native look-and-feel to the user interface." sounds a lot better. :)
15:47:52 <flo> +fully
15:47:57 <flo> fully cross-platform :)
15:48:13 <clokep_work> Added it.
15:48:14 <flo> (it's just marketing  bullshit, I know :))
15:49:09 <-- Tonnes has quit (Ping timeout)
15:49:45 <clokep_work> Yup!
15:50:30 <clokep_work> Do oyu have a list of sites / how ot submit to them somewhere before I start making one?
15:52:28 <flo> I've an awesomely awful fix for bug 856
15:52:31 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=856 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, make protocol links "localizable"
15:52:43 <flo> clokep_work: I don't have a correctly written one
15:52:50 <flo> but I know a few sites I want to send something to
15:53:10 <flo> if you start something I can paste what I have :)
15:53:13 <clokep_work> Alright, the only one I remember is "Lifehacker"
15:53:21 <clokep_work> It's in that same document at the bottom. ;)
15:54:10 <flo> we can email 2 different specific people (the one who talked about ib 0.1 and the one who recently wrote that Pidgin is the best but sucks in places where we don't) + the generic tips address for lifehacker
15:56:15 <clokep_work> Alright.
16:04:48 <flo> would also be interesting to find who wrote about disby
16:04:52 --> Tonnes has joined #instantbird
16:05:46 <flo> ok, it's Whitson apparently
16:06:27 --> mokush has joined #instantbird
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16:12:03 <clokep_work> OK! It's lunch time now.
16:12:08 <clokep_work> We would like to email them tomorrow I assume?
16:12:23 <flo> today
16:12:35 <flo> apprently they prefer knowing the info before it's public
16:12:52 <flo> (to get that "I have a scoop" feeling)
16:12:55 <clokep_work> Oh, OK.
16:13:32 <clokep_work> If that press release type info seems OK, then should I HTML-ify it for you and you can put it up on the site somewhere?
16:13:59 <flo> sounds good :)
16:14:19 <flo> any idea of how one gets something on slashdot?
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16:16:35 <flo> ah, I forgot techcrunch in that list.
16:17:14 <flo> they care only about startups (which includes Digsby) so if we want to be featured there, what we send *needs* to talk about the business side of the project in addition to the software side.
16:17:22 <clokep_work> I think for /. you just post it?
16:19:19 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 856 to FIXED.
16:19:20 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=856 enh, --, ---, nobody, RESO FIXED, make IRC protocol link "localizable"
16:23:23 <aleth> how about distro fanboy sites? eg. omgubuntu
16:23:55 <flo> will you email them for us? :)
16:29:33 <clokep_work> flo: I put the HTML-ified version up there. I can email the HTML doc too if that's easier.
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16:31:30 <flo> "an instant messaging client should be an extension of the user " isn't this wording odd?
16:31:36 <aleth> Looked it up for you: "Application developers, PR folks and anyone with a vested interest in a product they’d like to see on OMG! should mail us directly contact [at] omgubuntu [dot] co [dot] uk"
16:31:57 <aleth> As I am neither an ubuntu user nor a dev I don't think I'll email them myself ;)
16:32:07 <clokep_work> flo: I don't think so, but I'll look at it again.
16:32:30 <flo> you wrote both "ad-free" and "ad-less" isn't this repetitive?
16:33:25 <flo> that probably needs <strong> tags to emphazise the ideas and have people skip the blahblah
16:33:39 <clokep_work> Where's the "ad-less" one?
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16:33:57 <clokep_work> Ah, I see it.
16:34:01 <clokep_work> Which would you prefer removed?
16:34:09 <flo> I don't know
16:36:23 <flo> how do we post that / give them screenshots to use?
16:36:34 <flo> given that the new localized website won't be online yet
16:37:06 * clokep_work isn't sure.
16:37:13 <clokep_work> I added some <strong>s btw.
16:38:07 <clokep_work> Perhaps we should make it into a PDF and send it out. :-/
16:38:48 <flo> that's terrible for images (they need the links)
16:39:24 <clokep_work> Can we place it in a location that just won't change?
16:39:50 <flo> http://www.instantbird.com/press/ was designed for that
16:40:11 <flo> http://www-staging.instantbird.com/press/screenshots/
16:43:25 <clokep_work> Can we put it as http://www.instantbird.com/press/1.0-press-release.html or something?
16:43:47 <clokep_work> (Or is there a larger issue I'm not seeing here?)
16:43:51 <clokep_work> I need to go to a meeting in a minute.
16:44:05 <flo> they need to have access to the 1.0 version of the screenshots
16:45:41 <clokep_work> Right, which aren't done yet.
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16:46:10 <flo> the world sucks during release days ;)
16:46:30 <flo> am I the only one finding this image absolutely horrible: http://www-staging.instantbird.com/press/screenshots/1.0-findbar.png ?
16:46:34 <clokep_work> Yes, I'm seeing that now. :(
16:46:46 <flo> how come the label are under the icon on a second line?
16:47:00 <clokep_work> That doesn't happen for me.
16:47:10 <clokep_work> Not that I've ever noticed at least.
16:47:22 <flo> we can't show that :(
16:47:35 <flo> + the 1-line size of the top-conv-UI is ugly on Win7
16:47:50 <flo> I don't know why both icons are mis-centered vertically
16:48:13 <flo> but that image is really... bleah...
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16:52:54 <clokep_work> :-/ The top-conv-UI isn't terribly misaligned.
16:52:56 <clokep_work> But yes.
16:53:12 <flo> it looks totally unpolished ;)
16:54:26 <clokep_work> They won't notice. ;)
16:54:29 <aleth> Am not a Windows user, but is that tab-like background behind the tab normal? Looks superflous
16:54:31 * clokep_work is now known as clokep_meeting
16:55:52 <flo> aleth: sure, but it's hard to remove ;)
16:57:58 <aleth> Then having 2 tabs open in that screenshot might improve things ;)
16:58:26 <aleth> Or use the preferences option to hide the tab altogether when only a single tab is open
16:59:18 <aleth> Then the misalignment sneakily disappears ;)
17:05:08 <Mic> This screenshot is really aweful :(
17:05:18 <flo> ah, we agree! ;)
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17:24:12 <Mic> I updated Buddy Status to work with the next release, should have done so easier though :s
17:24:49 <Mic> *earlier
17:24:59 <clokep_work> Ah-ha, you can add it to that press release then. ;)
17:25:49 <igorko> Mic update it at adons site
17:25:53 <igorko> pleaseeee
17:27:01 <Mic> It's already there, you can find it on the "see all versions" page
17:27:31 <Mic> clokep_work: what do you mean?
17:28:29 <flo> Mic: it needs a review?
17:28:40 <flo> igorko: does the language detection work well now?
17:28:54 <igorko> let's try
17:28:55 <Mic> flo: it's in the sandbox, yes
17:29:16 <flo> is it waiting for a review or are you intentionally keeping it there?
17:29:20 <Mic> Do you get diff's for older versions by the way
17:29:25 <flo> we do
17:29:43 <flo> (at least something that works correctly ;))
17:29:53 <flo> (it's quite stupid that we get them file by file though)
17:30:43 <igorko> flo site rocks now
17:30:55 <Mic> It says "in sandbox, pending review"
17:31:12 <Mic> I'm not keeping it in the sandbox intentionally. Maybe I missed a button somewhere again?
17:32:07 <Mic> You only need to nominate the first version and updates are automatically requested to be public, don't they
17:38:09 <Mic> Thanks, sorry again for you having to bother you with it while you have enough on your plate already
17:39:38 <flo> is <big> a valid HTML tag?
17:39:57 <flo> Mic: I should mark it as "trusted" (that grants review automatically for the updates)
17:40:18 <clokep_work> flo: I think it's deprecated.
17:40:52 <flo> can I have some very quick feedback on this blog post http://typewith.me/ALfWto266J ?
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17:45:21 <clokep_work> flo: Looks pretty good, I found that one sentence very confusing which I changed / broke up, let me know when you finish that last paragraph?
17:46:18 <flo> I think I'm done
17:48:35 <clokep_work> flo: OK. I'm done.
17:49:29 <flo> "1.0: Simple, usable and extensible user interface." hmm, that on our old roadmap looks pretty nice
17:49:35 <flo> I'm going to try to include it in the blog post
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17:51:44 <clokep_work> :)
17:51:47 <flo> https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Roadmap
17:51:59 * clokep_work was about to go to that page.
17:52:17 <flo> I've just done the housekeeping there ;)
17:53:08 <igorko> Nictabam also should be updated before release...
17:53:18 <flo> is it still useful?
17:53:30 <igorko> why not?
17:53:49 <igorko> ah- yeah there is another addon...
17:53:52 <igorko> show nick?
17:53:53 <clokep_work> douglaswth released an extension called "Tab Complete" which is similar.
17:54:03 <igorko> cool
17:54:06 <igorko> let's see
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17:54:13 <clokep_work> + it completes commands.
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17:54:39 <igorko> buddy status rocks ;)
17:54:45 <igorko> Mic you too ;)
17:55:45 <igorko> i don't see Tab ** addon on sie :(
17:55:50 <igorko> site
17:56:16 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 860 filed by aletheia2@fastmail.fm.
17:56:18 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=860 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Add reading position marker line to (IRC) chat window
17:56:42 <flo> http://blog.instantbird.org/
17:57:08 <clokep_work> aleth: I have like half an extension done that does that. ;)
17:59:21 <Mic> The blob post on typewithme looks good :)
17:59:42 <flo> Mic: it's already on the blog ;)
18:00:06 <Mic> You mid-aired me catching up the logs then ;)
18:00:13 <Mic> *up on
18:00:25 <aleth> :)
18:00:29 <igorko> found...
18:00:43 <aleth> flo: a "usable ... user interface" ?
18:00:46 <flo> the awesomebar is really slow/stupid when we start relying on it :(
18:01:06 <igorko> flo but i can't find Tab Complete via search
18:01:16 <igorko> on add-ons site
18:01:28 <igorko> found in google- and it is there
18:01:33 <clokep_work> aleth: Unfortunately I haven't worked on it in a really long time, been busy doing other things. But it's good to know other people are interested in something like that (motivates me to work on it).
18:02:01 <flo> aleth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usability
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18:03:38 * flo has a nice instantbird-1.0.src.tgz file
18:03:39 <Mic> Let's wait for the trolls then
18:03:41 <aleth> flo: I understand, it just sounds a bit like faint praise (who designs an unusable user interface on purpose)
18:03:45 <instantbot> Just appeared in Blog@instantbird.org - http://blog.instantbird.org/ :
18:03:46 <instantbot> http://blog.instantbird.org/n47-version-number-change.html - Version number change
18:04:16 <flo> Mic: you mean the version-number-trolls? :)
18:04:28 <aleth> flo: but thats /nitpicking
18:04:33 <clokep_work> aleth: You should see some of the UIs I deal w/ at work then. ;)
18:05:02 <aleth> of course there are unusable UIs ;) but I bet they claim otherwise...
18:05:55 * Mic must not post examples. I must not post examples. I must not ..
18:06:25 <flo> examples of trolls? or of unusable UIs?
18:06:48 <igorko> someone please port google_dictionary_and_google_translate for Instantbird
18:06:51 <Mic> Neither?  ;) (I was referring to the UIs btw)
18:06:54 <igorko> addon
18:07:17 <clokep_work> igorko: Can you do it? :)
18:07:22 <flo> I've no idea of what I'm supposed to do next
18:07:37 <aleth> now for a new instantbird release every 6 weeks ;)
18:07:46 <flo> but I suspect it's "start sending emails once we have figured where we can put the files / have good screenshots online"
18:07:53 <aleth> 2.0 is due next month
18:07:55 <flo> aleth: that's not what I wrote
18:08:08 <igorko> i have red how to setup dev environment for addon wriing- it's so complicated :)
18:08:11 <aleth> flo: was not meant to be serious ;)
18:08:16 <flo> I wrote "much more frequently" ;)
18:08:21 <clokep_work> flo: Yes, let me know if you need/want me to send any emails, although I'd feel a bit strange sending them from a @gmail account.
18:08:30 <clokep_work> igorko: It's not too complicated, a lot of the steps are unnecessary.
18:08:39 <flo> clokep_work: want clokep@ib.org ?
18:09:09 <clokep_work> Yes, that'll work. It's just a forwarder?
18:09:14 <flo> yes
18:09:17 * clokep_work isn't sure he wants another email address to check. ;)
18:09:18 <aleth> flo: was just worrying about all your enterprise customers ;)
18:09:30 <clokep_work> HHaha. :)
18:10:04 <flo> Mic: while I'm at it, do you want mic@ib.org ?
18:10:19 <flo> aleth: :)
18:10:46 <Mic> I'm not sure what I'd need it for at the moment but I guess it doesn't hurt either ;)
18:10:55 <igorko> Mic How about link bugzilla update?
18:11:11 <igorko> just for gecko sepport
18:11:17 <igorko> support
18:11:23 <Mic> Now before I've mowed the lawn.
18:11:24 <Mic> bbl
18:11:26 <Mic> *Not
18:12:35 <flo> ok, I'll go get dinner. I hope after it I'll have an idea of "what's next" in my "todo" list :-D
18:12:36 <Mic> Ah, flo, I'd be glad to have such an address, I could use it wherever I'm using my other address here so far
18:12:42 <Mic> :)
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18:19:13 <clokep_work> Mic: At the very least it's a forwarder that you can change to point to your current address...while bothering flo. ;)
18:21:43 <kelopez> I just installed Instantbird
18:21:45 <kelopez> it's awesome
18:22:16 <clokep_work> kelopez: Glad you like it! :)
18:22:19 <igorko> good to hear
18:22:37 <kelopez> brb
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18:23:37 <GeekShadow> seems like instantbird have the "firefox numbering" fever now :D
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18:23:43 <kelopez> ok
18:27:10 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 861 filed by aletheia2@fastmail.fm.
18:27:11 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=861 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Tray icon should change to signal unread messages
18:27:16 <clokep_work> GeekShadow: Not quite, did you read the article?
18:27:38 <GeekShadow> I must say quickly ;)
18:27:45 <GeekShadow> will read more 
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18:29:55 <clokep_work> aleth: bug 749 is the icon disappearing when the buddy list is open.
18:29:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=749 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, System Tray Icon should persist even when Buddy List is open
18:31:29 <aleth> ah, sorry, I did try to search for dupes
18:31:40 <clokep_work> It's OK! :) Not always easy to find.
18:31:45 <clokep_work> I just happen to remember that one.
18:32:18 <aleth> Tray icons must be a pain to handle (at least I guess they are probably platform-specific)
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18:34:37 <clokep_work> Yes, they're especially a pain since the Mozilla stuff doesn't really do any of it for us.
18:35:01 <clokep_work> We actually ended up just integrating the minimize to tray revived xtension.
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18:37:12 <igorko> gimme please someone link to releasecandidates
18:37:19 <igorko> can't find
18:38:04 <clokep_work> igorko: http://ftp.instantbird.org/instantbird/releases/1.0-candidates/
18:38:18 --> kelopez has joined #instantbird
18:38:38 <igorko> thanks
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18:43:16 <clokep_work> No problem.
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18:51:19 <clokep_work> Who here is running a nightly for IRC? (Or the 1.0-candidate)
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18:55:12 <FeuerFliege> I hate open end meetings :(
18:58:14 <Mic> Let's hope it finishes before this does http://nyan.cat/ (be careful, it has sound!)
18:58:23 <igorko> someone should add mail notofications to Instantbird so i can remove google talk :)
18:58:47 <clokep_work> igorko: There's a bug about it. :P No one has implemented it yet though.
19:00:49 * clokep_work sometimes feels like we have bugs for everything. ;)
19:04:47 <Mic> Bug 169
19:04:50 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=169 enh, --, 0.2b1, romain, RESO FIXED, Change default actions on the "Account manager dialog"
19:05:15 <Mic> I think this was one of my first .. ah, only 170 of them by then.
19:07:29 <clokep_work> Your first bug filed?
19:07:30 <igorko> one guy asked me about adding instantbird to linux distro repo. Can we do it? eg create repo ror ubuntu etc
19:07:39 <igorko> flo*
19:08:01 <clokep_work> I think it's in Ubuntu repos already.
19:08:11 <igorko> really?
19:08:15 <igorko> heh
19:08:49 <igorko> i'll try
19:08:50 <clokep_work> Well 0.2 was.
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19:12:12 <igorko> yes- 0.2 is there
19:12:32 <igorko> i hope you guys will add 1.0 to repo
19:12:59 <clokep_work> I think chriscoulson was our maintainer, but I think he said he won't have time to do it anymore.
19:16:08 <clokep_work> igorko: So if someone is interested in doing it, yous huld have them stop by at some point and talk to flo ( I was only like half here during that conversation, not sure exactly the result).
19:17:18 <aleth> what's instantbird written in? javascript?
19:17:47 <igorko> xul
19:17:58 <clokep_work> aleth: Mozilla stuff is a hodgepodge of languages, libpurple is mostly (all?) C, Instantbird is C, JavaScript and various other stuff.
19:18:02 <igorko> protocols in javascript afaik
19:18:05 <clokep_work> No, only the interface is written in XUL.
19:18:12 <clokep_work> No, only Twitter is in JavaScript.
19:18:12 <igorko> ah i see
19:18:17 <igorko> lol
19:18:45 <igorko> i was definetelly wrong ^)
19:18:51 <igorko> :)
19:19:29 <aleth> thanks
19:19:39 <clokep_work> aleth: https://www.ohloh.net/p/instantbird/analyses/latest lists the languages. ;)
19:20:09 <aleth> Actually that might make the tray icon stuff easier, there are C libraries for that kind of thing
19:20:37 <clokep_work> If you want to compile them and interface to them via xpcom.
19:21:12 <clokep_work> aleth: This is the tray code we're using: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/components/mintrayr/
19:25:25 <aleth> maybe looking at the code for something like this would be useful? http://sourceforge.net/projects/googsystray/
19:26:50 <aleth> i thought there would be libraries but I must eat my words as I cannot find any
19:28:10 <clokep_work> :)
19:28:20 <clokep_work> There's a better Mozilla library out there, but it wasn't updated to the version we were using.
19:29:17 <aleth> I mean there are gtk or kde specific ones but that is no help
19:30:44 <clokep_work> Part of the problem on Linux is there's not definitive way to do it.
19:31:00 <aleth> yeah
19:31:08 <aleth> I think ubuntu has its own thing now too
19:31:40 <clokep_work> Yeah, Unity has something separate.
19:32:04 <aleth> pre-unity even, libappindicator
19:32:15 <aleth> Btw I notice the Error console has a bundle of error messages all of the type: 
19:32:15 <aleth> "Error: Got a NOTICE on AUTH, which does not exist
19:32:15 <aleth> Source File: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/raw-file/e4232086e0e0/purple/libpurple/protocols/irc/msgs.c
19:32:15 <aleth> Line: 1201
19:32:15 <aleth> Source Code:
19:32:15 <aleth> irc: irc_msg_handle_privmsg"
19:32:48 <clokep_work> Yeah, I think that always happens.
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19:36:43 <flo> clokep_work: "I think he said he won't have time to do it anymore." such a nice unscary way to sum up that discussion ;)
19:37:25 <clokep_work> flo: I tried to be as vague as possible so I couldn't be held responsible for getting my info wrong. ;)
19:37:37 <flo> it's very good! :)
19:37:38 * clokep_work is advertising Instantbird in #maildev.
19:37:53 <clokep_work> Well I didn't bring it up, just implying it's > Miranda.
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19:40:22 <flo> FeuerFliege: I added the <img> tags for the 1.0 press images, so it should be easy to see where an image is missing.
19:40:44 <flo> it seems you have done some great work with the screenshots! :)
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19:41:54 <flo> FeuerFliege: there's just one screenshot that looks like it should be taken again: the one with the findbar looks really very bad. :-/
19:42:19 * clokep_work wonders if the window was too small in that screen shot?
19:43:12 <Mic> oh, oh .. I'm seeing this here too with the findbar
19:43:19 <Mic> On a large window.
19:44:21 <flo> I'm definitely not seeing this on Mac, so if it's the only way to have something with a decent appearance, I would replace it with a Mac screenshot :-D
19:45:10 <Mic> Looks ok on the log viewer though
19:45:26 <Mic> I'll file a bug
19:46:17 <flo> clokep_work: I'm still thinking about the way to send the images to journalists
19:47:10 <flo> the best thing I have in mind currently (which sucks) is to wait for the screenshots to be finished, and then put a press-image-1.0.html page on the current website (without any link pointing to it), so that the page is kept when we update the site tomorrow
19:47:34 <clokep_work> flo: OK. Let me know if you figure it out. ;) I'm leaving work in about an hour and can send stuff after that, which will unfortuntaely be rather late here.
19:48:27 <flo> I'm completely confusing on what we should do about it.
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19:48:50 <flo> and I promised to translators that I would send that to them before so that they can send it localized at the same time as we send it to en-us journalists.
19:48:51 <flo> :(
19:48:52 <clokep_work> That seems like the best option to me too.
19:49:00 <clokep_work> We could delay until Thursday?
19:49:12 <clokep_work> Not ideal, but just throwing it out there.
19:49:18 <flo> we just announced "tomorrow"
19:51:01 <clokep_work> Touche.
19:51:34 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 862 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
19:51:35 <instantbot> benediktp@ymail.com added attachment 727 to bug 862.
19:51:37 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=862 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Findbar on conversations has a bad size on Windows Vista
19:52:53 <flo> ah, the first comment on that blog post is a positive one :)
19:54:40 <clokep_work> :)
19:54:45 * clokep_work assumed it was going to be from deOmega. ;)
19:55:49 <flo> that would have been a VERY POSITIVE one ;)
19:56:15 <Mic> I like deOmega's attitude to Instantbird a lot :)
19:56:29 <Mic> He's always so enthusiastic.
19:56:47 <flo> it's heart warming to see him coming, especially when I'm sad and upset because of some present issue :-D
19:58:27 <Mic> "I hope this works out for you. If nothing else, more competition (for Pidgin and Empathy) has to be a good thing in the "marketplace".". :D
19:58:50 <clokep_work> Except I don't think they care what anyone else does.
19:59:02 <clokep_work> They just do whatever they think is "right"
19:59:16 <flo> isn't this what we are doing too? ;)
19:59:48 <clokep_work> Well...we at least pay attention and say we don't like how they do things. ;)
19:59:51 * tymerkaev_away is now known as tymerkaev
20:00:03 <Mic> "We don't aim to be the most popular IM client, only to make the web a better place. If our competitors have to improve their clients to keep up, then it's only to the benefit of all users on the web... "
20:00:15 <Mic> I start sounding like the Mozilla guys, don't I ? ;)
20:00:18 <FeuerFliege> flo: I pushed a better version of the findbar pic
20:00:26 <clokep_work> Mic: Yes. :P
20:01:11 <flo> Mic: except we don't care about the *web* (and that's exactly the reason why Mozilla isn't funding us I think :-D)
20:01:45 <Mic> Ah, I should have said "Internet" here
20:01:54 <Mic> I'm mixing that up so often :S
20:02:42 <flo> FeuerFliege: thanks. But you are still having that very ugly 2 lines findbar
20:04:40 <FeuerFliege> That is the findbar I see even on a maximized window 
20:05:04 <flo> that's sad :(
20:05:43 <FeuerFliege> and the theme doesn't matter, bubbles findbar is the same.
20:07:09 <flo> do you see the same on XP ?
20:08:51 <FeuerFliege> yes it is the same on win7 aero, win7 non areo and win xp
20:09:29 <FeuerFliege> am I the only one with this findbar? I use the 1.0 RC 
20:11:15 <clokep_work> FeuerFliege: Mic also said he has it.
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20:11:38 <flo> FeuerFliege: should I push a Mac screenshot instead then?
20:11:59 <Mic> I filed bug 862 on this already, attaching your 1.0-findbar screenshot, FeuerFliege
20:12:02 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=862 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Findbar on conversations has a bad size on Windows Vista
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20:13:59 <flo> here is what I have: http://queze.net/goinfre/ib-1.0-screenshots/Image%2092.png
20:18:09 <FeuerFliege> I faked it now:
20:18:09 <FeuerFliege> http://www-staging.instantbird.com/press/screenshots/1.0-findbar.png
20:18:40 <FeuerFliege> .findbar-container .toolbarbutton-icon {visibility:collapse !important}
20:18:40 <FeuerFliege> in the userChrome.css 
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20:20:45 <flo> I don't think that's how it's supposed to look either
20:21:00 <flo> the icons used to be on the same line as the text of the buttons
20:24:24 <flo> the release directory is ready on the server and weights 1.8GB.
20:25:15 <Mic> What about photoshopping the image?
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20:27:10 <flo> is it really impossible to just use the mac image and fix the bug later?
20:27:17 <flo> (rather than showing a lie)
20:27:40 <aleth> clokep_work: you were asking about who was running the nightly -- i am 
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20:28:31 <FeuerFliege> i do not get it working :( 
20:28:54 <FeuerFliege> I will now edit the XP pix first
20:29:31 <FeuerFliege> flo: push the mac picture it looks really better
20:30:12 <flo> ok :)
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20:42:52 <aleth> There does not appear to be a link to the latest source code on instantbird.com
20:43:21 <aleth> The only link I can find is to the 0.3b1 version here http://www.instantbird.com/download-0.3b1.html
20:43:56 <aleth> This is a shame - is there no github link or whatever you use?
20:44:13 <clokep_work> aleth: http://instantbird.com/download-all.html has the source too.
20:44:23 <clokep_work> We don't use github, we have our own hg server somewhere.
20:44:44 <clokep_work> http://instantbird.com/faq.html#getthesource might be what you want?
20:45:08 <aleth> Wow, now that's what I call hidden
20:45:27 <aleth> You might want to add a link to that on the main download page ;)
20:45:34 <aleth> Thanks!
20:45:40 <clokep_work> It's on the main download page?
20:45:43 <clokep_work> There's a whole section on it?
20:46:25 <aleth> The link here http://www.instantbird.com/download-all.html goes to the 0.2 source
20:46:59 <clokep_work> Right, because 0.2 is the current release. ;)
20:47:16 <aleth> But if you wanted to look at the source, wouldn't you want to look at the latest code? ;)
20:47:37 <aleth> (Unless of course your purpose is to build the thing - of course you need both)
20:47:56 <flo> aleth: source tarballs are for people wanting to build the software of the download page themselves
20:48:06 <flo> if you only and to *look* at the source, you don't want to download it
20:48:13 <flo> the source code is indexed on http://lxr.instantbird.org/
20:48:25 <flo> *only want
20:49:02 <aleth> Ah, thanks, that's what I was looking f!
20:49:06 <clokep_work> And if you really want to develop, etc. we expect peopel to look a bit further. instantbird.com stuff is generally for "users" (I guess)
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20:50:51 <aleth> Was not meant as a criticism - I just couldn't find it. The NickServ thing is bugging me...
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20:51:24 <clokep_work> Yeah, sorry. Just trying to finish some work before I go home!
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21:03:20 <clokep_work> Goodnight, good luck with the release tomorrow. :)
21:06:32 <kelopez> a new release?
21:07:03 * clokep_work let the cat out of the bag. =-o
21:08:22 <kelopez> nyan
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21:09:08 <Mic> nyan nyan ;)
21:09:53 <Mic> kelopez: if you read the latest blog posting (the one about version numbers) you'll get a hint on the release and its date ;)
21:11:53 <kelopez> ok
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21:21:28 <Mic> We had a new maximum on update pings on June, 16th: 667
21:21:38 <FeuerFliege> ok, which pix are still missing?
21:22:01 <FeuerFliege> i think homepage-screenshot for mac and linux and that is it, right?
21:22:25 <Mic> That's 16 more than at the beginning of the year when Instantbird was featured as program of the month on some Mozilla page
21:24:56 <flo> FeuerFliege: looking
21:25:57 <flo> 1.0-*-screenshot-homepage-big.png seem to need an update
21:26:03 <flo> the it's the same file as for the homepage :)
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21:28:17 <flo> it seems the resize algorithm as produced a rather bad smaller version of the XP homepage screenshot
21:28:53 <flo> "Tom Smith" is unreadable there
21:29:28 <flo> on the smaller windows-trouble-free.png image it looks better, that's strange
21:29:57 <FeuerFliege> I will redo it
21:35:06 <Mic> Good night, I hope everything goes fine for the release (and for you that it doesn't take too long)
21:35:57 <flo> It's tomorrow ;)
21:36:55 <Mic> 'Tomorrow' starts in 24 minutes in central europe ;)
21:40:26 <Mic> Good night now
21:40:29 <flo> I'm afraid the files won't be uploaded by that time
21:40:45 <flo> I'm mirroring the release folder on sourceforge "just in case" we get out of bandwidth tomorrow
21:40:58 <Mic> Good idea
21:41:26 <flo> it seems that at the current rate it will take at least an hour
21:41:49 <flo> good night :)
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22:07:19 <flo> update to sourceforge finished :)
22:10:40 <flo> *upload I meant
22:11:00 <kelopez> instantbird is f*ng awesome
22:12:23 <kelopez> flo why in Polish?
22:12:38 <flo> why not?
22:12:42 <kelopez> ah
22:12:51 <kelopez> I guessed sf.net/projects/instantbird
22:12:52 <flo> I guess I don't understand your question
22:13:16 <kelopez> and the green download button said "Download instantbird-1.0.pl.win32.zip (14.6 MB) "
22:13:21 <kelopez> but later I saw the folders
22:13:23 <kelopez> and brb
22:13:23 <kelopez> xD
22:15:18 <FeuerFliege> finally. All pix ready to go :)
22:15:20 <flo> apparently we can put 4GB of stuff on code.google.com
22:15:43 <flo> that would probably be better than sourceforce, as I don't think google puts ads before people can actually download the files
22:16:01 <kelopez> I'm watching a new release coming to live :')
22:16:13 <kelopez> your thoughts are right flo
22:16:40 <kelopez> anyway I already downloaded Instantbird 1
22:16:57 <kelopez> brb
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22:18:05 <kelopez> back
22:18:13 <flo> kelopez: I guessed that (that you couldn't wait for the release)
22:18:20 <kelopez> lol
22:18:34 <kelopez> I used this software for less than 24 hours
22:18:43 <flo> please don't give away the link (it really hurt the project to have people download the binary without having an opportunity to see the release notes first)
22:19:06 <kelopez> ok
22:19:45 <kelopez> so flo you're tha "master mind" on this software?
22:20:07 <flo> I'm the founder.
22:20:40 <kelopez> nice
22:20:44 <kelopez> nice to meet you
22:22:50 <flo> FeuerFliege: that looks great! :)
22:23:48 <flo> it seems only images/screenshots/multi-protocol.png still needs an update (to add a twitter icon)
22:24:50 <kelopez> I still see Instantbird 0.2 :impatient:
22:25:23 <flo> what are you trying to see?
22:25:44 <kelopez> the 1.0 screenshot
22:25:46 <kelopez> XD
22:27:20 <flo> you wouldn't have to look very far to find them
22:28:16 <kelopez> ok I understand
22:28:20 <kelopez> I'll have to wait :P
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22:37:09 <kelopez> wut
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22:45:12 <flo> just found on twitter:  "Hate the difficulty of Miranda, the ugliness of Pidgin, the bugs of Empathy and the ads in Trillian? Try Instantbird! : D"
22:46:35 <aleth> i wholeheartedly concur :)
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23:17:40 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 
23:18:57 <clokep> aleth: I have "Got a NOTICE ON *, which does not exist" and a "Got a NOTICE on AUTH, which does not exist" for each of my IRC accounts, but nickserv worked OK.
23:19:08 <flo> clokep: I'm almost done editing the press release to turn it into a webpage that I would like :)
23:19:32 <clokep> flo: Awesome! :) Hopefully didn't need to make too many changes.
23:20:05 <flo> I'm just currently struggling to add 2 lines explaining our business story without actually telling anything about it :-D
23:20:21 <flo> (to meet the techcrunch "we are talking only about startups" thing ^^)
23:20:54 <clokep> Yes, I can't help ya there. :-/
23:21:25 <aleth> clokep: I have no idea why it fails either. From a brief look at the code, as far as I can tell there is nothing there, it only calls libpurple, as you mentioned earlier. Is it possible my local distro version of libpurple is not new enough?
23:21:59 <clokep> aleth: Ah, I suppose it's possible. You can check in Help > About for the libpurple version.
23:22:44 <aleth> 2.7.11
23:22:58 <clokep> Google code download stuff works pretty well flo.
23:23:14 <flo> but we can only upload files one by one
23:23:28 <flo> though it's a script, so I can make another script on top of it to call it once for each file ;)
23:23:48 <clokep> aleth: Same version as me. I'm not sure. :( You could try using wireshark to see what's actually going over the wire, but hopefully w'ell replace the IRC w/ another implementation soon.
23:28:06 <aleth> clokep: oh well, it's only an inconvenience. Thanks for your help.
23:29:14 <clokep> You're welcome! :)
23:29:44 <clokep> You could always write a script to respond automatically to that request. ;)
23:30:07 <flo> clokep: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/834 does that make sense?
23:30:16 <aleth> heh ;)
23:30:22 * clokep reading.
23:31:05 <clokep> Yes except "The company-qualify infrastructure deployed to build"
23:31:09 <clokep> Idk what that's trying to say.
23:31:15 <flo> by the way, another idea to find journalists to contact: look in google news for articles about pidgin/digsby
23:31:21 <flo> *quality
23:31:26 <clokep> Alright.
23:31:38 <flo> I dislike that word but couldn't find anything to say
23:32:01 <flo> I wanted to say "much less crappy than what other similar projects have to depend on"
23:32:35 <clokep> "company-quality"?
23:32:40 <clokep> Is that what you mean?
23:33:02 <aleth> "state-of-the-art"?
23:33:34 <aleth> "cutting edge"? ;)
23:33:46 <clokep> (I think you wanted to replace the f in qualify with a t in other words. :))
23:34:51 <flo> clokep: I already said that :-P
23:35:04 <flo> 01:31:19 - flo : *quality
23:35:13 <clokep> Ah, sorry. was putting sauce on the oven while reading.
23:35:17 <clokep> (Not always a good combination btw. ;))
23:35:24 <clokep> s/oven/stove/
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23:36:46 <clokep> douglaswth: You should mark you Tab Complete as non-experimental, so people can find it.
23:36:48 <flo> hmm, what should "please download the 1.0 release" point to?
23:37:15 <clokep> The download page? :)
23:37:22 <clokep> (Is that created yet?)
23:37:39 <flo> on the new site, yes
23:37:49 <flo> on the old one were we are backporting that... bleah
23:38:05 <flo> download-1.0.html can work I guess
23:38:20 <clokep> Uhh....Firefox remove the protocol from the URL bar? WTF?
23:38:24 <flo> wow, we forgot to mention it's LOCALIZED!
23:38:44 <flo> clokep: I've heard they also want to remove the version number ;)
23:39:32 <clokep> flo Oh, good one.
23:39:39 <clokep> And yes...I need to add that protocolback.
23:40:38 <aleth> Have heard they are thinking about removing the whole URL bar 
23:41:00 <flo> and the browser too!
23:41:46 <aleth> ultra lightweight
23:42:57 <aleth> :)
23:43:29 <aleth> I think the logic is that "normal people can't make sense of URLs anyway"
23:43:53 <clokep> Bullshit.
23:44:14 <clokep> Well maybe not totally.
23:44:17 <clokep> But not all their users are dumb.
23:45:04 <clokep> Set up my ChatZilla source searches now. :)
23:46:36 <aleth> yeah, I agree. At least you would likely end up with two kinds of browsers, one based on "apps" and one what we are used to.
23:47:55 <clokep> Yeha, well anyway. i don't want to bikeshed about Firefox, we can do that tomorrow. :)
23:47:59 <aleth> I can definitely see why chrome would go down that route. Their URL bar is already a google search
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23:48:54 <flo> ok, that page looks nice
23:51:36 <deOmega> Came in  to make a quick comment.  Though I  can appreciate folks giving feedback about  a product from a distance, I am blown away by the comment  regarding 'user icons', where the person seemed to have had a strong opinion, but  have yet to try the product.  THAT is  astounding to me.
23:52:36 <deOmega> By the way, trying to give you guys  room  since u have so much work to do for the release.  If i can be of help with anything, just email me at jahkae@gmail.com
23:52:59 <flo> do you have experience reading press-release?
23:53:20 <deOmega> all day long.. business  press releases
23:53:20 <flo> and guessing if they will produce useful results(give journalists a willingness to write about us)?
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23:54:39 <hicham> bonsoir Monsieur flo
23:54:51 <flo> hey :)
23:55:06 <deOmega> first line is sending the  right message,  but should include.. one sec
23:55:18 <hicham> review request is revived
23:55:28 <hicham> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=649826
23:56:31 <deOmega> that line should give a clue that you have a lot of improvements
23:56:55 <-- flo has quit (Input/output error)
23:56:56 <deOmega> as opposed to a version bump and  locales
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23:59:23 <flo> deOmega: do you think most people who will see this have already seen Instantbird before?