#instantbird log on 06 24 2011

All times are UTC.

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00:18:34 <flo> Good night
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04:42:58 <Mook> can I configure ib to minimize instead when I hit the close button? (without going to the tray)
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05:00:07 <FeuerFliege> Mook: Not that I am aware of.
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06:35:09 <Mic> Good morning
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07:10:14 <FeuerFliege> hi
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08:47:50 <Mic> Sometimes "idle" is sticking on ICQ contacts, even though they're active :(
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09:14:06 <flo> hello :)
09:14:47 <flo> I wonder why software download websites expect I would be interested in knowing that as a result of their tests it appears that Instantbird doesn't contain any virus. :-S
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09:28:31 <flo> the list of the images that need an update on the website for the release: http://www-staging.instantbird.com/screenshots-to-update.html
09:29:19 <flo> Mic: you were willing to make the aero versions I think?
09:29:35 <flo> I can provide an easy to install (a simple .xpi) already configured Fake.
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10:13:44 * flo is on the french 1.0 rc :)
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10:20:29 <clokep> Hmm...I think the reply in bug 839 misses some of the point of Instantbird.
10:20:31 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=839 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, User data (name and icon) not fetched or shown in contact list upper part
10:21:23 <flo> not more than users who want a quick way to disconnect a specific account.
10:21:56 <flo> they are all people using different accounts to represent different identifies of the same person.
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10:22:13 <clokep> Mook: I think you want something like https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/minimize-on-start-and-close/ for Instantbird, I'm not sure if just hacking the install.rdf on that extension will work or not. (Personally I use it to minimize Tb on start up, not to minimize on close)
10:22:46 <clokep> If Mic can't provide aero screenshots, I should be able to.
10:23:46 <flo> that sounds interesting :)
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10:24:02 <flo> if I think we will need an option to minimize at startup when we add an option to auto-start
10:25:09 <clokep> Probably.
10:25:18 <clokep> That extension is essentially "Minimize to tray for Windows 7"
10:25:30 <clokep> I.e. "Don't minimize to tray, but I still want to click the close button"
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10:26:19 <Mic> flo: ok
10:26:34 <flo> has anybody tried the release candidate?
10:26:54 <Mic> (I'd take the screenshots, I meant)
10:27:15 <flo> they should be taken from the release candidate of course ;)
10:27:22 <clokep> ANd checking...that extension should be able to work with a hack to install.rdf + chrome.manfiest.
10:27:43 <flo> :)
10:27:53 <Mic> Ah, sure :D
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10:27:59 <clokep> It's been downloading slowly for me...
10:29:18 <FeuerFliege> hi
10:29:26 <Mic> Where can I get the Windows release candidate?
10:29:42 <Mic> http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/nightly/latest-1.0/ ?
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10:30:03 <clokep> Mic: http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/releases/1.0-candidates/2011-06-23-12-instantbird/
10:30:04 <Mic> hmm, there's only Mac builds
10:30:04 <FeuerFliege> http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/releases/1.0-candidates/2011-06-23-12-instantbird/
10:30:12 <clokep> Is where I got it at least.
10:30:18 <Mic> thanksm clokep, FeuerFliege
10:30:22 <flo> Mic: haven't you received my email from yesterday evening?
10:30:47 <clokep> Switching over to it...
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10:31:16 <clokep> Hmm....Join Chat, Nictabum and Buddy Status are incompatible.
10:31:33 * clokep laways forgets what the real icon looks like.
10:32:11 <FeuerFliege> clokep: of cause.
10:32:12 <Mic> I got it, flo. The only thing I remembered from it was "localization" .. 
10:32:30 <Mic> .. the link was in there, indeed.
10:32:42 <flo> the title started with "Instantbird 1.0 (was 0.3) - release candidates"
10:33:34 <clokep> Mic: Join chat can possibly just be bumped, I know we discussed this before, but I forget the results. :)
10:33:47 <FeuerFliege> flo: I have read this part „it was added“ about 4 times till i got it.
10:33:51 <Mic> I'll make sure it works, one way or another
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10:34:14 <flo> FeuerFliege: uh?
10:34:26 <flo> I've read that 4 times and still don't get what you mean :-S
10:34:58 <FeuerFliege> in your mail: “It's in 11 locales ('it' was added
10:34:58 <FeuerFliege> since 0.3 beta).”
10:35:34 <clokep> As in "italian"
10:35:39 <clokep> It took me a couple tries to get it too.
10:35:46 <clokep> (I think it == italian at least)
10:35:49 <flo> sure
10:36:12 <flo> I hope our italian translator got it the first time :)
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10:37:55 <Mic> flo, I've got nothing to do but to run "Fake" then?
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10:38:24 <flo> to have the fake conversations displayed, yes
10:38:44 <clokep> On a fresh profile. ;)
10:38:48 <flo> but if you look at http://www-staging.instantbird.com/screenshots-to-update.html, you will see taking the images is quite a bit of work anyway
10:38:49 <Mic> Does it take the screenshots too? ;)
10:39:11 <flo> Mic: that would be too good to be true ;)
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10:40:07 <Mic> Does it align the windows as displayed on the screenshots or do I have to do that perfect to the pixel myself?
10:40:18 <flo> you have to do it yourself
10:40:28 <flo> and you'll probably need to edit the add-on too
10:40:56 <flo> by default it has the content for this image: http://www-staging.instantbird.com/images/screenshots/macosx-screenshot-homepage.png
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10:41:06 <flo> for some others images, some parts need to be removed
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10:41:59 <flo> hmm, not completely sure if I really care if we have all the conversation for http://www-staging.instantbird.com/images/screenshots/cross-platform-big.png or not
10:42:04 <flo> it may be easier to just keep it
10:43:14 <flo> are there shadows behind windows on Windows? If so, are they kept in the screenshots when using alt+print screen?
10:43:45 <Mic> No shadows as it seems
10:43:54 <FeuerFliege> flo: why _alt_+print?
10:44:06 <Mic> It only copies the window, nothing else
10:44:20 <FeuerFliege> ah
10:45:23 <FeuerFliege> there are shadows they are lost if you use alt+print
10:45:24 <clokep> Just change your background to white and do a regular print screen?
10:45:54 <fqueze_> maybe, yes
10:46:09 <fqueze_> not sure how we make the white area transparent after the fact, but I assume GIMP can do that :)
10:46:27 <clokep> Possibly, the shadowed area would be hard.
10:46:50 <clokep> Snipping tool doesn't do it either. :(
10:46:52 <fqueze_> vicnet: are you taking care of the ubuntu screenshots?
10:47:56 <vicnet> I can give it a try in a moment :)
10:49:20 <harlock> i was wondering about otr encryption
10:49:33 <flo> anybody handling the XP screenshots would also be welcome of course ;)
10:49:37 <Mic> I guess a different background color than white would be better? Should be easier .. I think the shadow only varies the saturation and or lightness but not the hue and that's what you'll use to figure out which parts should be transparent
10:49:46 <flo> and if someone has a Mac and wants to do those too, it's great too :)
10:50:37 <Mic> So you take let's say light green and see which areas are affected (like green screens for movies)
10:51:02 <vicnet> that's what I was thinking of trying, Mic
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10:51:11 <Mic> :)
10:51:19 <flo> aren't your aero glass parts showing the green then?
10:51:25 <clokep> Mic: Bright magenta? ;)
10:51:36 <vicnet> although I'm not sure I have the expertise to make it happen…
10:51:42 <clokep> flo: Yes, they would.
10:51:48 <flo> anyway, if you manage to handle all the transparence edits too, it's even better :)
10:52:04 <flo> vicnet: you probably know google enough to get it to work :)
10:52:05 <Mic> Yes, but I haven't thought it through all way yet ..
10:52:41 <vicnet> flo: right, I'll see what I can come up with :)
10:53:03 <Mic> Could be awesome .. if you exactly know the hue of the background color, you might even be able to make the glass part semitransparent? ;)
10:53:21 <Mic> So there'd be a Mac window beneath Windows Glass in the end? ;)
10:53:47 <flo> then I need someone to handle website localizability, coordinating the l10n efforts once it's localizable, someone sending the announcements to the news websites, and posting the announce on the blog, and I can go in vacations now :)
10:53:49 <Mic> (it would loose the blur, though)
10:54:16 <flo> Mic: fix that with -moz-box-shadow? :-D
10:55:09 <Mic> Maybe it's easier to add the shadow using a box shadow or some photoshop editing
10:56:32 <clokep> I think what we need is http://lmgtfy.com/?q=aero+screenshot+shadow ;)
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10:58:43 <Mic> Ok, let me google and download some scarewa.... random tool for this :P
10:58:51 <harlock> is there any chance to put this feture into instanbird?
10:59:31 <clokep> harlock OTR you mean?
10:59:36 <clokep> Eventually...if someone does it. :P
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11:00:02 <harlock> off the record
11:00:07 <harlock> encryption
11:00:10 <clokep> I think it's part of "the plan", but someone still needs to do it.
11:00:56 <flo> until we have a way to auto-detect that it can be turned on, it's of limited value.
11:01:00 <flo> Would be a great add-on anyway :)
11:01:10 <flo> lunch time, back later! :)
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11:01:46 <vicnet> bon appétit
11:03:32 * Mic got an idea .. : see remarks-section: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms646304%28v=VS.85%29.aspx
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11:03:51 <Mic> with some js-ctypes hacking, it might be possible to trigger the screenshot and fetch it from the clipboard right after
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11:05:57 <clokep> There's extensions fore Firefox which automatically take screenshots and save them...
11:06:09 <clokep> Bbl
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11:06:14 <FeuerFliege> Mic: http://www.donationcoder.com/Software/Mouser/screenshotcaptor/index.html
11:07:18 <FeuerFliege> i just tried it. It captures a wandow with shadow and transparency.
11:07:20 <Mic> will check it out later, need to get the grill going for a barbecue , bbl
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11:59:53 <flo> clokep: if these firefox extensions only screenshot the webpage, it's similar to what I did for the preview of the converted adium message themes and doesn't help us as this method (copying the window to a canvas) can only take the inner part of the windows (not the frame, and certainly not the shadow)
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12:02:41 <clokep_work> flo: Some of them take the chrome too.
12:04:24 <clokep_work> The only one I remember using is Fireshot, and that was to get web pages though.
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12:05:18 <flo> clokep_work: the Firefox chrome can be taken too. it's just a xul window instead of an HTML one
12:05:28 <flo> it's the OS-drawn frame that we can't get
12:06:02 <flo> well, now that on Windows the close/minimize/... buttons are drawn by gecko too, it may not matter anyway
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12:07:29 <clokep_work> flo: Oh, I see. I didn't realize that.
12:08:10 <flo> screenshoting the chrome this way could be useful for some automated regression tests by the way
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12:13:56 <clokep_work> Yeah, I think Firefox does that actually?
12:14:05 <fqueze_> it's too bad that just when I try 1.0rc, I have 100% CPU usage... :(
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12:18:53 <fqueze_> I suspect some brokenness in the xmpp prpl, as the CPU usage goes down for a few seconds when the Gtalk server closes the connection
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13:08:53 <flo> I should definitely try http://blog.mozilla.com/nnethercote/2011/01/07/memory-profiling-firefox-with-massif-part-2/
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13:20:40 <FeuerFliege1> how can you run “Fake”? Is it an addon?
13:22:17 <flo> yes
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13:23:11 <flo> or on a debug build you just export "FAKE" in the environment
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13:28:10 <FeuerFliege1> flo: where can i find the addon?
13:28:39 <flo> if you convince me that you have an actual need for it, in your email inbox.
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13:31:09 <flo> using it (after unpacking an localizing it) to produce localized screenshots that you would provide for locale news website would certainly count as an actual need ;)
13:31:19 <flo> *unpacking and
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13:33:25 <flo> how do these release notes sound http://www-staging.instantbird.com/release-notes.html ?
13:34:12 <FeuerFliege1> flo: []Sounds like something I could do ;)
13:35:14 <flo> fair enough, check your inbox
13:36:33 <deOmega> Contact merging: If you talk to the same person on multiple IM networks you can now combine THAT BUDDY NICK from each network into a single contact.
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13:37:30 <flo> deOmega: hello :)
13:37:35 <FeuerFliege1> flo: the release-note sounds good to me.
13:37:53 <flo> they will be harder to change once people start translating them
13:37:57 <deOmega> flo:  good morning
13:38:48 <deOmega> I have some problems  comprehending some of the stuff regarding the contact list .. though  they may seem simple to you buys.  the change i suggested is an example
13:38:58 <FeuerFliege1> deOmega: good to hear, that it isn’t that clear in English, too.
13:39:43 <flo> deOmega: is it hard to understand in the release notes? in the blog post (we explained all that in details yesterday)? both?
13:40:43 <deOmega> are you going to  post that right now  flo, as i have some pressing eventsfor a few mins here.  if you  coudl  wait 300 mins or so wouldlike togive  feedback
13:41:20 <flo> the blog post was posted yesterday.
13:41:40 <flo> the release notes will be translated, starting this evening, to be visible on the website next week
13:41:45 <deOmega> I meant this one..
13:41:46 <deOmega> http://www-staging.instantbird.com/release-notes.html
13:42:49 <deOmega> as for the  blog about contact list.. I felt I had to try hard  (I think) let meget my brain  converted in a bit lol
13:43:39 <FeuerFliege1> flo: i think the blog is better to understand (at least for me, with English not as my mother tongue)
13:43:52 <flo> what about adding a link to the blog post?
13:44:01 <flo> it's clearly easier to understand when there are pictures :)
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13:49:34 <FeuerFliege1> flo: it would be easier with pictures. I think the problem is that the words can stand for both a person and a account/nick/protocol specific contact (I don’t find the right word).
13:49:51 <flo> I'm afraid there's no right word.
13:50:11 <flo> we tried hard to find one several times already
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14:14:01 <deOmega> flo.. was this released already?  posted to teh blog?
14:14:14 <deOmega> http://www-staging.instantbird.com/release-notes.html
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14:52:30 <deOmega> anyoen has alink to teh pastbin that IB uses?
14:55:06 <deOmega> flo, I think that  you can use 'person' in many cases as opposed to using the term buddies when addressing the buddy list.   imo, buddy tends to leave it too technical and  can be ambiguous at times with regards to what it is addressing.
14:55:15 <flo> deOmega: it's in the topic
14:55:35 <flo> what we call "contact" is a person.
14:55:56 <flo> a buddy is not a person, it's, depending on the protocol, a screenname, email address, number, ...
14:56:26 <deOmega> ah, my theme buries them
14:57:09 <flo> we have no "plain english" word for what we call "buddy" internally because it totally depends on the protocol
14:57:33 <flo> the right word is "screename" for AIM, "address" for MSN/Google talk, "ICQ number" for ICQ, ...
14:57:38 <deOmega> ok, let  me try something
15:02:13 <deOmega> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/823
15:02:27 <deOmega> does that convey what i am trying to say?
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15:08:54 <flo> deOmega: that's find with me. Not worse than before at least :).
15:12:18 <deOmega> I am adding some more.  sorry, i am doing this as usual intermittently
15:12:42 <flo> I can't give you my full attention either anyway ;)
15:15:39 <clokep_work> deOmega: The blog post we're referring to: http://blog.instantbird.org/a45-better-contact-list.html
15:18:28 <deOmega> ok, i do not know if i have to post it again to show my updates  so i am posting again  :).. i am sure one could just refresh :)    http://pastebin.instantbird.com/825
15:18:37 <deOmega> Otherwise,  i think it is fantastic
15:18:43 <clokep_work> You can't refresh, it gives a new number.
15:19:25 <deOmega> clokep_work: I read that one  already, let me revisit if i had problems with it
15:19:42 <clokep_work> deOmega: OK, well that's what they were referring to earlier. :)
15:20:41 <deOmega> :(.. i was commenting on this :   8:33:28 AM - flo: how do these release notes sound http://www-staging.instantbird.com/release-notes.html ?
15:21:43 <flo> right.
15:22:26 <deOmega> clokep_work: 99.9% of my comments were geared towards that with  minor reference to the  blog you pointed out
15:22:31 <flo> well, there isn't much point in discussing the wording of a blog post that people have already read, so I figured you were looking for improvements in the release notes which hadn't been proofread yet.
15:22:59 <deOmega> correct
15:23:21 <flo> though I must admit I was confused for a few seconds by your first comment which I first thought was about the blog post.
15:23:47 <deOmega> ah, and for that I apologize 
15:26:15 <clokep_work> AH, OK. :)
15:27:04 <deOmega> To be honest,I suspect that   people familiar with this type of work would read  what you had up  very clearly. But  because i am a novice, so many things are not as clear  (though I spend much time in here.. you then ask the question, where is his brain when he is here)
15:28:03 <clokep_work> We don't make our blog posts for ourselves though. ;) We want anyone to be able to read 'em.
15:29:16 <deOmega> but being in here also may work against me..  sometimes you may make a simple statement and i  look for more than there is.. if you say the buddy list is red.. i will assume it is some sort of technical danger zone or something, as opposed to  mic just making a red buddy list lol
15:29:56 <flo> well, if we say "the tree is green" it may have a technical meaning ;)
15:30:08 <flo> but I know nothing special about the buddy list being red.
15:30:49 <deOmega> But at least, if i can offer you guys anything, it is the perspective of a relative simpleton.
15:31:04 <deOmega> flo: lol
15:31:36 <Mic> Ah, I am the guy who makes things red? Intersting .. :D
15:31:37 <flo> I tend to rather say that the waterfall is green, which may be even more confusing than the tree being green :)
15:31:58 <flo> Mic: no, you unpack things! :-P
15:33:46 <clokep_work> "closed on Mac without Instantbird quitting and reopened from the Dock." does not make sense, it needs a semi-colon or something in there.
15:33:59 <clokep_work> "closed on Mac without Instantbird quitting; it can be reopened from the Dock."
15:35:51 <clokep_work> "Instantbird 0.3a2 is based on libpurple 2.7.11 and Mozilla 2.0.1 which" ...not sure if the 0.3a2 is hardcoded or generated automatically, but it should be 1.0
15:36:14 <clokep_work> Only "Known Issue" I know if is that you can't reopen the Twitter timeline manually.
15:37:11 <flo> and I've just discovered that it takes 100% of my CPU and hundreds of MB of my memory ;)
15:37:25 <flo> but I assume that's a known issue we don't really know :)
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15:45:49 <Mic> hmm, the window positions are not persisted properly when restoring a previously minimized window after unlocking a Windows session again
15:46:31 <FeuerFliege> flo: in fake.js there is a system message “Flo has gone away.”
15:47:02 <FeuerFliege> i cannot find it in the locales. I think i have tomatoes on my eyes :(
15:47:52 <flo> it's around line 274
15:48:04 <flo> doesn't your editor has a search feature? :)
15:48:54 <clokep_work> Are they hard coded? I haven't checked out the extension yet.
15:53:08 <flo> nothing is "hard coded" when you have a single file, you just edit whatever you want to change :-P
15:54:17 <clokep_work> I meant that FeuerFliege might not be looking at the fake.js file and might be looking in the standard locales stuff?
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16:03:01 <Mic> Have a nice day
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16:03:14 <Mic> I'll get the screenshots ready. 
16:03:45 <Mic> Are there any additional information on the screenshots that I was missing (all I know is the website with all systems and all images listed)
16:05:22 <Mic> If not I'll extract the image and window sizes + positions from the old screenshots and redo it as closely as possible
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16:08:13 <flo> Mic: you can just place the old screenshot in firefox and place the window above it to resize to the same size and relative position, then hide Firefox before taking the screenshot :)
16:08:31 <flo> I'm not aware of anything else. If there's something else, only idechix knows about it. :(
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16:12:54 <Mic> Good evening
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16:13:04 <flo> good evening :)
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16:16:38 <igorko> please change channel topic ;)
16:16:50 <clokep_work> Why?
16:16:55 <clokep_work> IIt's not released yet.
16:17:01 <igorko> read it first
16:17:10 <igorko> topic i mean
16:17:23 <igorko> Try Instantbird 0.3 beta! :)
16:17:49 <igorko> write Try Instantbird 1.0RC ;)
16:17:56 <flo> no
16:18:25 <clokep_work> Bah Pidgin 2.9.0 is released.
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16:18:52 <flo> as expected
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16:19:18 <mistraven> hello, i finally found some place where people are actually discussing instant bird :)
16:19:20 <igorko> it wold be better to port pidgin to QT...
16:19:24 <igorko> would*
16:19:45 <flo> mistraven: out of curiosity, where have you tried first?
16:19:51 <flo> (hello !)
16:20:34 <clokep_work> igorko: Why would we port it to QT? The whole idea is that it uses the Mozilla stuff and we gain a lot by it.
16:20:46 <flo> clokep_work: don't feed the trolls please :)
16:20:46 <clokep_work> I'm pretty sure there are libpurple interfaces for QT anyway.
16:20:48 <igorko> i mean not you
16:20:51 <clokep_work> Hello mistraven. :)
16:20:55 <mistraven> flo: well i tried looking on the website to see if there was a forum or something, i'm not used to chatting on irc
16:21:01 <clokep_work> Right. I'm going to go feed myself!
16:21:05 <igorko> i mean pidgin would look better if ported to Qt
16:21:05 * clokep_work is now known as clokep_lunch
16:21:16 <clokep_lunch> igorko: Depends if you're using GNOME or KDE. ;)
16:21:23 <flo> clokep_work: bon appetit! :)
16:21:29 <mistraven> but even on the website it took a while for me to find the irc address
16:21:36 <clokep_lunch> mistraven: Yes, we don't have a forum. There's a bug open for it though. ;)
16:21:43 <clokep_lunch> Where did you look first? So we can add it there!
16:21:47 <igorko> clokep_lunch it looks crappy in windows...
16:22:10 <flo> igorko: if you want to discuss Pidgin, this is not the place
16:22:20 <igorko> ok ;)
16:23:15 <mistraven> well, there could be some more information on the website, there is not much there explaining how to use different features of the application
16:23:58 <mistraven> but since it is still in early development it is to be expected
16:24:20 <flo> which feature needed explaining?
16:24:21 <mistraven> i figured more information will come later
16:25:10 <mistraven> well, i have tried to figure out how to start a multiuser chat using msn, i'm not sure if this is supported yet but i found some text suggesting it would be
16:25:20 <flo> it's not supported
16:25:39 <mistraven> aha
16:25:40 <igorko> someone should add Vkontakte to Instantbird(a lot of peaple sit in that Social network)
16:25:53 <igorko> it's jabber afaik
16:26:51 <mistraven> in the options panel of instantbird under the tabs-tab there is a checkbox for grouping multi-user chats in a separate window
16:27:20 <igorko> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vkontakte read the Popularity section
16:27:46 <flo> mistraven: the IRC room where you currently are is a multi-user chat ;)
16:28:26 <mistraven> aha, yes it is, although i didn't think of it that way :)
16:29:07 <flo> by the way, you can talk in MSN multi-user chats, but just not start them
16:29:49 <mistraven> hmm, that is good to know :)
16:30:03 <mistraven> thanks for confirming that
16:30:28 <igorko> "Vkontakte, like many other major social networks, uses the XMPP protocol as its basis for its chat and presence service."
16:30:35 <deOmega> does that apply to googletalk also? 
16:30:51 <flo> deOmega: gtalk uses XMPP, yes.
16:31:21 <mistraven> are there any plans for including a function to start multi-user chats on other protocols that support it?
16:31:22 <clokep_lunch> Unfortunately the terminology across IM network is very different, i.e. a msn chat room == xmpp multi-user chat == irc channel, etc.
16:31:37 <flo> mistraven: it's supported on most protocols already
16:31:41 <deOmega> hmm, i usually sign into googletalk  web based for conferencing.  did not know ib would allow
16:32:01 <flo> it's just a bit more difficult on MSN because instead of joining a room, you just add people to a conversaiton so that it creates one
16:32:21 <mistraven> aha
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16:33:43 <mistraven> it's okay, apart from that i have had no problems with instantbird, most things work very well for me
16:33:53 <flo> :)
16:34:04 <mistraven> :)
16:34:36 <deOmega> hmm, i would like some more information n on the google multi-user chat  whenever one has time please.  Interesting
16:35:18 <deOmega> mistraven:  may i ask which version of IB you are using?  I cannot tell
16:35:22 <flo> deOmega: I don't know if google talk supports creating MUCs, but it definitely can join MUCs hosted on other XMPP servers
16:35:40 <clokep_lunch> I don't think you can create GTalk MUCs on the MUC network.
16:35:42 <flo> deOmega: you use the "Join Chat" menu item, like for IRC
16:35:51 <mistraven> deOmega: i'm using 0,3b
16:36:50 <deOmega> Thanks guys.   
16:37:12 <deOmega> mistraven:  cool, was trying to see how many of the new work you are seeing
16:38:25 <clokep_lunch> I meant on the GTalk network there, I htink they have to be on the federated network.
16:38:51 <deOmega> just a note: I am not a developer or anything, just a user/observer :)
16:39:06 <clokep_lunch> But I don't really remember how GTalk works. :P So...
16:39:37 <mistraven> deOmega: i usually like trying beta products and new features, it is nice to see what kind of features are coming in the future
16:40:14 <flo> mistraven: you may like nightly builds :)
16:40:29 <deOmega> Yeah, I am also intrigued by it.   I find it to be helpful in spotting future trends.
16:40:47 <mistraven> deOmega: well i might, but i haven't tried...
16:41:13 <deOmega> on flo's note, i find IB's nightlies to be pretty stable... those are what i use.
16:41:29 <mistraven> deOmega: at the moment i'm using IB for msn, irc and facebook-chat
16:41:36 <flo> :)
16:42:17 <deOmega> mistraven: I use it for twitter, facebook, irc, gtalk, yahoo, aim, and msn
16:43:14 <clokep_lunch> No one uses QQ or Gadu-Gadu!? Come on. :P
16:43:35 <deOmega> clokep_lunch: i am not familiar with those 
16:43:47 <mistraven> apart from msn, facebook and irc i also use skype and gtalk for video-conferencing, although video isn't supported in IB
16:45:11 <deOmega> I see.  I do not do video chats but for conferences, i  use googletalk or an IRC channel
16:45:29 <flo> clokep_lunch: I don't think they work
16:45:34 <flo> (in Instantbird I mean)
16:45:34 <clokep_lunch> deOmega: I was expecting you to, they're used in China and Poland, respectively.
16:45:42 <clokep_lunch> *wasn't
16:45:49 <mistraven> i looked at the roadmap and found out that video and voice isn't planned until version 1.0
16:46:05 <clokep_lunch> Yes, video is not supported in Instantbird, (or in libpurple, which we use for most protocols).
16:46:11 <clokep_lunch> Ah-ha! Flo you should have updated that. ;)
16:46:19 <flo> mistraven: the roadmap says "after 1.0"
16:46:21 <deOmega> LOL...  thanks for adding  wasn't lol.. i was taken aback initially.
16:46:27 <mistraven> true :)
16:46:34 <clokep_lunch> Oh OK, we're still safe then. :)
16:46:38 <flo> 1.0 is very soon ;)
16:46:44 * clokep_lunch might look into Skype soon. . .
16:46:57 * flo is tired of that localizability thing
16:47:58 <mistraven> well you are doing some good work on the client anyway :)
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16:48:53 <deOmega> mistraven: please consider trying out the nighty and tell them what you think :)
16:50:15 <mistraven> i might :)
16:50:51 * flo has a fully localized homepage! :)
16:51:15 <flo> all in french
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16:51:28 <flo> including the tricky parts (download button, share links, footer, ...)
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16:52:18 <mistraven> localization is a pain
16:52:53 <mistraven> i once made a website in 3 languages complete in swedish, norwegian and english
16:53:03 <mistraven> it was a nightmare
16:53:10 <flo> the things that you do even though you know you'll never use them (I'm French but can read English) are boring ;)
16:53:15 <igorko> Flo http://s54.radikal.ru/i144/1106/12/c79bcc2eaec4.jpg
16:53:20 <igorko> flo*
16:53:37 <flo> igorko: is this an add-on you just made?
16:53:40 <igorko> i was talking about this
16:53:53 <igorko> no it's only composed image :)
16:54:06 <flo> there's an add-on for something similar I think
16:54:33 <igorko> should go
16:54:36 <igorko> see ya
16:54:36 <flo> igorko: have you tried the "show nicks" add-on by the way? :)
16:54:52 <igorko> seems i didn't
16:54:59 <igorko> i'll watch later
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16:55:33 <clokep_lunch> There's https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/234
16:58:27 * clokep_lunch doesn't ever remember connecting to "concrete.mozilla.org" before.
16:58:46 <flo> I discovered it yesterday too
16:58:55 <flo> what happened to gravel.mozilla.org?
16:59:10 <clokep_lunch> I usually ended up on sand.mozilla.org
16:59:22 <clokep_lunch> (See the theme? :P)
16:59:23 <flo> you are in the US
16:59:34 <clokep_lunch> Yup. Was sand the US one and gravel the international one?
16:59:40 <flo> no
16:59:40 <clokep_lunch> Well non-US one?
16:59:45 <flo> Sand is San-Jose
16:59:55 <flo> gravel was in NL
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17:00:01 <flo> (so Europe)
17:00:03 <clokep_lunch> Ah, I see.
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17:00:11 * clokep_lunch wonders whree concrete is.
17:00:23 <flo> traceroute it? :)
17:01:08 <mistraven> flo: just found your reply to nick plugin
17:02:18 <deOmega> slpeaking of which, i would like to suggest vertical tabs be featured as an addon on the release page :)
17:04:43 <clokep_lunch> flo: It ended at xe-0-0-1.core1.phx1.mozilla.net []
17:04:59 <clokep_lunch> (Hop before that was phoenix-az.us.xo.net)
17:05:04 <clokep_lunch> Sounds like it's in Phoenix. :)
17:05:24 <flo> :)
17:12:39 <clokep_lunch> And Sand is in San Jose, yes. And ...gravel seems to be in Mountain View?
17:13:26 <clokep_lunch> Well that one wasn't as clear, so oh well. ;)
17:17:27 <FeuerFliege> flo:  no i didn't meant that. I want to use the exact wording as it would appear on the screen. [sorry had to go earlier]
17:17:57 <FeuerFliege> i found the line in none of the locales only here: http://lxr.instantbird.org/pidgin2.6.3/source/libpurple/plugins/statenotify.c#65
17:18:11 <flo> oh, ok
17:18:47 <clokep_lunch> FeuerFliege: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/locales/en-US/conversations.properties I believe has it.
17:19:03 <flo> clokep_lunch: right :)
17:19:13 <FeuerFliege> so it is possible that this string is not localized?
17:19:21 <flo> no
17:19:23 <FeuerFliege> clokep_lunch: no.
17:19:52 * flo notices he replies just a plain "no" way more often than usual today :)
17:19:55 <FeuerFliege> clokep_lunch: there is only the ‚is now‘
17:19:58 <FeuerFliege> part 
17:20:29 <flo> FeuerFliege: what about just using the de build to talk to yourself and changing your status to see which string it should be? :)
17:21:04 <clokep_lunch> FeuerFliege: It's possible that string isn't actually in Instantbird and it's an old string. ;)
17:21:27 <flo> oh, yeah
17:21:33 <flo> we changed it :)
17:22:27 <flo> I guess faking the status change would be better than faking the system message :)
17:22:30 <flo> more future proof :)
17:22:39 <clokep_lunch> FeuerFliege: You found a bug! :)
17:22:46 <FeuerFliege> yeah!
17:23:35 <flo> localizing the website and writting only the en-US translation is even more frustrating
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17:36:30 <mistraven> btw, how do i hide a contact in the contact list?
17:37:05 <clokep_lunch> "hide a contact"?
17:37:11 <mistraven> oh i just figured it out
17:37:14 <clokep_lunch> You can remove them?
17:37:23 <clokep_lunch> Is that what you mean?
17:38:44 <FeuerFliege> we can hide contacts? 
17:38:58 <mistraven> hmm, i dunno maybe, i put the tag other contacts on the contact i wanted to hide, and then removed the earlier group tag
17:39:27 <clokep_lunch> They should show up in the "Other Contacts" tag then, which is at the bottom of the buddy list.
17:39:35 <clokep_lunch> Either that or you found a bug. ;)
17:40:27 <mistraven> yep it does show up in the "Other Contacts" tag, but i just minimized that one so that i won't be bothered by seeing it
17:40:55 <FeuerFliege> clokep_lunch: there is a bug :( 
17:42:20 <clokep_lunch> mistraven: Ah, yes. You're using it correctly then! :) Just making sure it popped up.
17:42:29 <clokep_lunch> FeuerFliege: What bug? Or file a bug report. ;)
17:44:44 <FeuerFliege> I have an online contact. I have connected two tags. I set the one tag to hidden/invisible (or whatever it is in en-US) and than I remove other visible tag from the contact. This contact is now really hidden (other contacts group doesn't pop up)
17:44:47 <mistraven> clokep_lunch: yeah, well i did find another bug now though
17:45:32 <FeuerFliege> clokep_lunch: I just checked if it is possible to reproduce. 
17:45:55 <clokep_lunch> FeuerFliege: File a bug report please.
17:46:21 <FeuerFliege> clokep_lunch: thist time i will do it right away ;)
17:46:33 <FeuerFliege> this time
17:46:33 <mistraven> clokep_lunch: when i removed the last contact from one of my tags the tag should vanish from the list, instead it stays in the list with a white space under it
17:47:59 <clokep_lunch> mistraven: That does sound like a bug. :( I'm not sure if it was fixed or not. Can you file a bug report at http://bugzilla.instantbird.org please? :)
17:48:06 <clokep_lunch> flo Do either of those sound familiar ^ ^
17:48:54 <mistraven> i'm editing a screenshot at the moment
17:49:59 <FeuerFliege> clokep_lunch: how is the group of untagged contacts named in en-US?
17:50:43 <clokep_lunch> "Other Contacts" I think is what you're thinking of. But I'm not sure if that's "Untagged contacts" or not.
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17:52:51 <flo> clokep_lunch: "it stays in the list with a white space under it" that's definitely the reason why we added timers ;)
17:53:04 <flo> that's fixed in nightlies/the release candidates
17:53:30 <flo> contacts without any tag are put by libpurple in the "Buddies" group
17:53:53 <clokep_lunch> flo: Ah, that's the same bug (the whitespace one), I wasn't sure.
17:54:15 * flo drives home and will continue the localizability work after dinner
17:54:22 <flo> back later, good evening! :)
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17:54:27 <clokep_lunch> ;night
17:56:43 <mistraven> kk, good to know it is fixed in later versions :)
17:57:13 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 852 filed by do.not.deliver@gmx.de.
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17:57:22 topic changed by sand.mozilla.org to "Ask questions about Instantbird (http://www.instantbird.com) here|Try Instantbird 0.3 beta! :) |News: http://blog.instantbird.org/ |Nightlies: http://nightly.instantbird.im/ (testing purpose only) |IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/ |Pastebin: http://pastebin.instantbird.org/"
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17:57:46 <FeuerFliege> I killed instantbot :(
17:57:59 <FeuerFliege> bug 852
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17:58:58 <FeuerFliege> https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=852 I hope you’ll get what I mean.
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18:14:48 <clokep_lunch> FeuerFliege: What do you mean by a "not visible tag"? Do you mean one that you've already "x"-ed out so that it's contents go into "Other contacts"?
18:15:08 <FeuerFliege> clokep_lunch: yes
18:15:18 <FeuerFliege> i did it with the context menu
18:16:17 <clokep_lunch> OK.
18:28:29 <instantbot> do.not.deliver@gmx.de added attachment 726 to bug 852.
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18:29:51 <FeuerFliege> clokep_lunch: But it works with x-ing, too.
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20:55:29 <flo> that bug makes me sad :(
20:55:34 <flo> but thanks for reporting anyway! :)
20:55:44 <flo> it's just too bad we haven't noticed it 2 days before
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21:51:05 <FeuerFliege> flo: Too bad that this bug was found so close to the release. But it is not too bad, tags are not changed that often and after a restart the contact is where it should be. 
21:51:30 <FeuerFliege> btw I have the localized screenshots ready.
21:51:32 <flo> you don't need to restart
21:51:44 <flo> just hiding and showing back the tag is enough
21:52:12 <flo> and yes, it's not bad enough to deserve a respin. Just frustrating to have missed that.
21:53:27 <FeuerFliege> shit happens :)
21:54:51 <FeuerFliege> has mic made the en-US screenshots already?
21:57:00 <FeuerFliege> windows is a bitch when it comes to capture a window with semi-transparent shadows.
21:58:05 <FeuerFliege> good night, it is almost tomorrow ;)
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21:58:48 * flo wonders how come one of his AIM accounts suddenly gets spammed by a bot pretending to be a 24 years old bored female wanting to be watched on a webcam.
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22:59:51 <Mic> FeuerFliege: you hid your menu bar too as it seems from the STR screenshot you posted in bug 852. How do you like it? Is it the scroll-in css code for userChrome.css that I pastebined a while ago? I really like it and it starts looking unfamiliar when having the menu bar there by default ;)
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23:01:42 <flo> Mic: heh, I hadn't noticed. (there's no menubar inside windows on mac ;))
23:02:09 <flo> I saw/understood what you meant when talking about the non-rounded corners of the window when there's no status bar though :)
23:02:33 <Mic> Unfortunately there's no easy solution for the non-rounded corners
23:02:44 <flo> ah?
23:03:55 <Mic> The textbox on the conv window is resistent to change and the richlistbox can have rounded corners, even though the contents don't respect it and draw a few pixels (1?, 2?) over the corners.
23:04:53 <Mic> Putting an extra space there would lose half the space gained by hiding the status bar so this is not really an option either
23:05:13 <Mic> (c.f. the account manager top for an example of the latter)
23:05:44 <flo> of course, the server doesn't have the same version of PHP as I do, and nothing works once uploaded :(
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23:06:26 <Mic> No en-US screenshots yet, btw
23:06:59 <Mic> I need to go to bed, I'll try to do it first thing in the morning
23:07:32 <flo> I need to sleep too.
23:07:36 <Mic> good night
23:07:48 <flo> I'd really like to send something that works so that translators can start working on the site :(
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23:25:36 <flo> the website with the home page localized to French: http://www-staging.instantbird.com/fr/
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23:46:52 <flo> I think the changes I pushed today to the website give enough examples of how things work for anybody to take over the remaining pages if someone has spare time.