#instantbird log on 06 23 2011

All times are UTC.

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07:02:33 <Mook> haha, saw my name in the credits, and my first thought was "what the hell did I do" :p
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07:12:17 <Mic> Good morning
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07:36:08 <Mic> clokep: "Link Bugzilla" still works, I just checked. Even though I don't think there's any need for this, at least when it is so little customizable as it is.
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07:42:29 <Mic> The security category on AIO is also empty. Do we even have an idea what sort of extensions we'd expect to use this?
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08:34:17 <flo> hello :)
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09:09:46 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 675 to FIXED.
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09:09:47 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=675 nor, --, 0.3, florian, RESO FIXED, Sign off transition not starting/finishing
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09:17:51 <flo> would it be a good idea to include before the respin a trivial patch to silence out this warning: Could not read chrome manifest file '.../Instantbird.app/Contents/MacOS/extensions/{972ce4c6-7e08-4474-a285-3208198ce6fd}/chrome.manifest'. ?
09:19:04 <flo> I'm sad I didn't catch it yesterday
09:19:16 <flo> but it's stupid to have that change as the last item in the changelog :-D
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10:19:57 <clokep> Good morning!
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10:31:50 <flo> clokep: hello :)
10:33:00 <clokep> Do we just need to include a chrome.manifest in there to silence that? :P
10:33:31 <flo> yes, include an empty file
10:33:42 <flo> that's what was done for thunderbird/seamonkey
10:33:55 <flo> but it's too late, we are building a second set of release candidates already :)
10:34:12 <clokep> Oh, haha.
10:34:16 <clokep> It can be in 1.1 then. ;)
10:34:26 <clokep> Or the third set , when something elese gets messed up.
10:34:42 <flo> pssst, no :-P
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10:37:45 <clokep> You never know! :)
10:39:08 <flo> we are generating a massive amount of partial update files this time ;)
10:39:26 <flo> for the linux build: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/815
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10:40:34 <clokep> Wow.
10:41:15 <clokep> The 0.2a1 must just replae every file.
10:42:50 <flo> 0.1.3 and are there too ;)
10:42:57 <flo> and for windows it will go as far as 0.1.2
10:43:44 <clokep> Ah, yes. :)
10:43:57 <clokep> I assume if you want to switch languages you have to do a full install?
10:44:19 <flo> yes
10:45:30 <flo> the list of files currently being uploaded for linux: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/816
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10:56:10 <flo> too bad that it failed to upload these files :( (I've stopped and restarted it)
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10:56:37 <clokep> Restarted the uplad or the whole build?
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10:57:17 <clokep> If it was the build you should've snuck that file in there. ;)
10:57:22 <clokep> I hav eto go though! Bye.
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13:15:18 * flo restarts the Mac build :(
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13:20:38 <flo> The total amount of data uploaded by the linux build is 468M!
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13:58:33 <clokep_meeting> That's a lot of data!
14:00:44 <clokep_meeting> Why'd the Mac fail? Couldn't upload again? :-/
14:01:14 <flo> kernel panic -> reboot
14:02:17 <flo> and Windows failed because of some missing files (trivial mistake, fixed) and then failed again because its disk is full. Even is currently retriggering by hand only the final steps.
14:03:57 <clokep_meeting> The phrase "kernel panic" always makes me laugh. :)
14:04:07 <clokep_meeting> Seems like none of our builds ever go smoothly. :(
14:05:15 <flo> if we had better hardware with lots of disk space rather than crappy VMs and second hand macs, and good enterprise qualify internet connections rather than crappy "home" ones, things would work right much more frequently ;)
14:05:42 <flo> *quality
14:08:55 <clokep_meeting> Fair enough.
14:09:34 <flo> by the way, the kernel panic of the mac machine have always happened (since I own that machine). It's random, about once a month (enough to be annoying, not enough for any attempt to locate which of the memory chips are faulty to be successful).
14:14:48 <clokep_meeting> Ah, I had something similar on my old desktop. It turned out to be the memory slot though (well something on the mother board).
14:16:02 <flo> if we knew which slot is faulty, we could just use another ;)
14:16:45 <flo> there are lots of them. I think that machine was designed to support up to 16GB (which was a huge amount in 2004 or 2005 when it was new)
14:17:25 <clokep_meeting> Move them all to new ones. :-D
14:17:47 <flo> with brand new memory modules?
14:17:52 <flo> just to be sure? :)
14:18:06 <clokep_meeting> Aka, jus tbuy a new computer.
14:18:11 <flo> there are currently 2.5 GB installed
14:18:34 <flo> I wondered if buying 4GB (and removing the 4 existing modules) would help get us faster (and more reliable builds!)
14:18:53 <clokep_meeting> Perhaps. :) RAM is relatively cheap too.
14:18:54 <flo> but yeah, buying a computer that could run 10.6 and build 64bit versions would be useful
14:19:28 <clokep_meeting> I have 4 GB and my build completes relatively fast (for Windows), but that might also have to do w/ my SSD and Core i7 processor. ;)
14:19:45 * clokep_meeting has been meaning to buy another 4 GB stick...
14:20:01 <clokep_meeting> Did you ever update the Roadmap on the wiki btw? ( I thought you had said something about editing...)
14:20:12 <flo> I haven't 
14:20:36 <flo> I'm currently trying to write a blog post about all the changes in the contact list
14:21:02 <clokep_meeting> Ah OK. Let me know if you need proof reading.
14:21:15 <flo> thx :)
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14:37:48 <igorko> when releasing?
14:38:08 <flo> when ready
14:39:05 <igorko> i see :)
14:39:22 <igorko> i noticed just today that ff5 is out :)
14:42:27 <flo> it's hard to explain contact merging without having a word for "buddy"
14:43:03 <clokep_meeting> Yes. :-/
14:43:35 <clokep_meeting> Well, a buddy is like a phone #, and each contact can have multiple buddies (i.e. phone #s) ;)
14:43:50 * clokep_meeting is thinking about the IRC blog post as well a bit.
14:43:57 <clokep_meeting> IRC / extensions / whatever.
14:44:06 <flo> "buddy" is no where in the UI, so I would rather not use that word at all
14:44:21 <flo> (or when it is, it's a mistake that we should fix after the release)
14:44:37 <flo> I suspect in some locales "contact" and "buddy" have been translated with the same word anyway
14:45:15 <clokep_meeting> You could use "screenname" or "username" or something? Maybe? :-/
14:45:37 <flo> screenname is AIM specific
14:45:52 <flo> on most protocol it's an email address or a number
14:46:18 <flo> I'm going with "way to contact the person", which is irritatingly long
14:49:53 <clokep_meeting> Right. Yeah that's pretty long.
14:53:02 <flo> http://typewith.me/OoTuliOGtv
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14:57:50 <flo> and now of course I need to fix fake for the screenshots :-/
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15:08:05 <clokep_meeting> flo: Good luck! I made some changes, nothing major. Except the terminology is a bit confusing in parts I think.
15:08:08 <clokep_meeting> I'm not sure there's a way around that.
15:08:45 <flo> I'm trying to create a staging website to display what I'm working on for 0.3/1.0
15:17:04 <igorko> hm i see in roadmap this for 0.3 :Add a notification (systray) icon
15:17:18 <igorko> and we have icon but not notification
15:17:49 <clokep_meeting> igorko: Whether it's on the roadmap or not, nothing new is being added.
15:17:59 <clokep_meeting> And that's meant to be read as "notification icon" or "systray icon". :)
15:18:15 <igorko> these two are different things
15:18:55 <flo> they are not :)
15:19:44 <igorko> notification icon means that it should notify about something. Does it?
15:20:13 <flo> well, ok...
15:20:25 <flo> I'll fix the roadmap later :)
15:20:56 <igorko> anyway notifications are implemented :)
15:21:19 <igorko> but i also wish to have buddy status ;)
15:22:01 <flo> feel free to add that :)
15:22:37 <igorko> i'm noob in coding ;)
15:22:54 <flo> beginning is the best way to start ;)
15:22:58 <igorko> i know it "fundamentally"
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15:24:21 <clokep_meeting> igorko: Sure a notification is a different thing, but those icons (near the clock) are both known as "system tray icons" and "notification icons" (since they can create notifications), we don't currently create any, but the terminology is still a "notification icon" to some.
15:24:43 <igorko> agree
15:24:55 <igorko> that's why roadmap sucks :)
15:25:06 <clokep_meeting> Buddy Status doesn't use the notification icon to do notification anyway. ;) It uses the toaster pop ups.
15:27:22 <clokep_meeting> And yes, roadmaps suck. :-/ Unfortunately it's what users always ask about.
15:27:51 <clokep_meeting> Bah I don't like where this entry is going. I'm going to trash it.
15:29:32 <clokep_meeting> I'll just look at the FAQ instead! :)
15:30:53 <flo> it's too bad users don't complain for unexpected events
15:31:32 <flo> we offered (without knowing about it) major updates today from 0.2 to 0.3b1 to 72 users.
15:31:48 <clokep_meeting> :(
15:31:54 <clokep_meeting> Good thing that 0.3b1 is stable.
15:31:59 <flo> right!
15:32:07 <clokep_meeting> Has that been occurring since 0.3b1 was released?!
15:32:10 <flo> I've stopped the update service
15:32:38 <flo> no, since Even emptied and recreated the major update table this morning when we attempted to have partial update files for 1.0 release candidates
15:33:09 <clokep_meeting> Ah, OK. Well they'll get a nice surprise then. ;)
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15:33:40 <flo> note sure if we should post a "we are sorry" thing on the blog or just ignore it
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15:35:39 <flo> I've stopped all updates for now
15:39:52 <clokep_meeting> Right.
15:40:55 <flo> here is the log of all mistakenly downloaded updates: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/819
15:41:08 <flo> (49)
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16:08:34 <flo> ok http://www-staging.instantbird.com/
16:08:54 <flo> this auto-updates at each commit on the repository
16:09:07 <clokep_meeting> Nice. :)
16:09:24 <clokep_meeting> The FAQ looks OK btw, Idk what we'd say about Twitter in it...
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16:39:29 <flo> it's fun to play with Fake
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16:39:55 <flo> you can invent new friends, completely mess up the buddy list, etc... have a perfectly ordered list :)
16:40:26 <clokep_meeting> Isn't the list perfectly ordered anyway? ;)
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16:41:53 <flo> clokep_meeting: people there all have a display name that makes sense ("their" first name) :)
16:42:21 <clokep_meeting> Ah.
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16:47:03 <flo> clokep_meeting: "[is this supposed to say tags?]" not sure. We can't "move" a contact out of a tag anyway ;)
16:47:39 <flo> that could be read as moving them on the server (especially in the facebook case)
16:47:42 <flo> I think group is ok
16:47:54 <clokep_meeting> True.
16:47:56 <clokep_meeting> OK. :)
16:47:56 <flo> uh, it has just disappeared ;)
16:49:24 <flo> "Any contacts which haven't been associated with any" is "contact" really plural here?
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16:52:17 <flo> "[is "accounts" the proper term here?]" do you have a better one? :)
16:52:33 <flo> "buddy" :-P ? "items" ?
16:52:56 <clokep_meeting> Yeah, I don't know.
16:52:59 <clokep_meeting> Accounts works OK.
16:53:08 <flo> I think the screenshot will talk
16:53:22 <clokep_meeting> Yup.
16:53:23 <flo> or at least, people will look at it instead of the end of the sentence
16:53:32 <clokep_meeting> I played with the "Any contacts" bit some more...
16:54:04 <flo> s/Any contacts/Contacts/ ?
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16:56:46 <clokep_meeting> Yes, it can be written that way now. :)
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16:58:02 <clokep_meeting> Should that be "with a special "Other Contacts" tag" instead of "in a"?
16:58:14 <clokep_meeting> It's my understanding you can't really be "in" a tag, since it's not a group. ;)
16:58:23 <clokep_meeting> Why is this such a hard concept to explain? :P
16:58:34 <flo> it's a group and a tag
16:58:55 <flo> it's hard to explain because words are overloaded ;)
17:00:48 <clokep_meeting> Yes, which doesn't really work well. :)
17:05:56 <flo> ready to post? :)
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17:06:25 <clokep_meeting> I didn't see anything else to change. :) The pictures will help it a lot.
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17:06:45 <flo> they are not as great as I would like
17:06:53 <flo> it's hard to screenshot popup menus
17:07:27 <flo> and I would have liked to have some tooltips but that's even harder (the hotkey to screenshot hides them, so the only way is to screenshot with a timer...)
17:07:48 <clokep_meeting> Right. :-/
17:08:02 <clokep_meeting> Well hopefully it gets people trying some stuff with them.
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17:09:22 <flo> http://blog.instantbird.org/a45-better-contact-list.html
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17:11:56 <flo> boo, crashed :(
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17:15:36 <instantbot> Just appeared in Blog@instantbird.org - http://blog.instantbird.org/ :
17:15:37 <instantbot> http://blog.instantbird.org/n45-better-contact-list.html - Better contact list
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17:36:12 <flo> Good evening :)
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18:25:09 <Mic> good evening
18:25:53 <igorko> hi
18:26:07 <igorko> Mic what about buddystatus?
18:26:18 <igorko> does it work already?
18:26:32 <igorko> gimme gimme ;)
18:28:38 <Mic> I'm still testing it but it seems to work fine so far. No buddy/user icons though .. I can't help but thinking they just look crappy
18:30:01 <Mic> Maybe it's the combination crappy alert-popup-look + usally crappy look of resized user icons that repell me
18:31:39 <Mic> hmm, maybe someone implemented an alternative nsIAlertService that is able to display several notifications/alerts simultaneously but I doubt it ..
18:31:49 <Mic> If it was goodlooking it would be a plus ;)
18:32:36 <Mic> (this was not exactly related to the thing before but alerts hiding other alerts is also annoying)
18:32:54 <clokep_meeting> I doubt anyone ever reimplemented nsIAlertService.
18:33:57 <clokep_meeting> Isn't the user icon the same as it's displayed in the conversaiton though? Size wise I mean.
18:35:05 <Mic> bbl
18:35:10 <Mic> Yes, btw
18:35:32 <Mic> but this doesn't help either :P
18:36:36 <clokep_meeting> Just meant it's ugly all around. ;)
18:43:24 <Mic> haha :D
18:43:36 <Mic> I'm allergic to ugliness ;)
18:47:45 <clokep_meeting> Hah, that's fair enough. :) Just saying most people probably think it looks ok? :)
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19:35:00 <flo> :(
19:35:08 <flo> timeout on the upload of the mac build :(
19:36:14 <flo> only 7 files were missing :(
19:40:06 <flo> wait. Buildbot *thinks* it has killed the process, but actually the machine is still uploading :)
19:49:01 <clokep_meeting> :) That's good...I think.
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19:53:18 <clokep_meeting> Bah you can just delete my comment then flo. :P It's practically the same as yours.
19:53:47 <flo> ah, you were aggressively reloading the page to get the comments?
19:54:25 <clokep_meeting> Nope, just happened to notice them while taking a break from trying to read some horrible code here.
19:54:40 <clokep_meeting> But you replied faster. ;)
19:55:17 <flo> I took my time
19:55:28 <flo> but I read the comments way before validating them ;)
19:55:49 <flo> I got busy in the meantime looking at WTF was happening to my dear mac builder ;)
19:56:15 <flo> it sucks that we have such a crappy internet connection in the building of my new office :(. Come on, a timeout of 7200s should be enough...
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19:58:22 <flo> clokep_meeting: I wondered what that "get ACCESS DENIED" was about
19:58:36 <flo> could it be that this user received a major update prompt?
19:59:11 <flo> I hesitated between saying that if this was what happened we are sorry, or ignoring it because it would be very confusing if this was not the cause :)
19:59:37 <clokep_meeting> That's an awful long timeout, sorry to hear the connection sucks.
19:59:49 <clokep_meeting> I'd guess that they got the update prompt and it denid them. Idk what else it oculd be. :-/
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20:01:33 <flo> that part doesn't really make sense though. As the part of the update system that I disabled is the one that causes the prompt to appear, not the actual download of the updates. :)
20:04:23 <flo> for the connection's discharge: it has uploaded over 700MB (out of 814) before the timeout. That's already a fair amount of data pushed to the network for an "home" connection.
20:05:13 <flo> it's just too bad they put some standard ADSL plan on a set of offices filled with software developers...
20:05:15 <clokep_meeting> Hmmmm...maybe he tried going to the FTP page?
20:05:56 <clokep_meeting> That just returns a 404 though.
20:07:26 <flo> some people are clever to find incredibly strange ways that they believe to be "normal" to access some files ;)
20:07:47 <flo> it's just too bad they don't explain which "normal" way they picked when they then report an error
20:08:29 <clokep_meeting> PSh, users. Such a pain in the neck.
20:09:07 <flo> yeah, almost as painful as computers
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20:17:46 <flo> cool, another issue with the update system :(
20:19:35 <clokep_meeting> What's the issue now?
20:19:45 <clokep_meeting> Bah actually, I need to get going.
20:19:47 <clokep_meeting> Goodnight!
20:23:47 <flo> something related to partial updates that doesn't seem to work when we have several locales for the same buildid
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21:43:59 <FeuerFliege> Hi, I get an Error 403 (access denied) when checking for updates
21:55:29 <flo> I disabled the update system until we can fix a serious error in it
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22:26:16 <flo> FeuerFliege: I've reenabled it except for the 0.2 releases
22:33:40 <flo> the nice thing when hacking Fake is that an additional ugly hack really doesn't matter :-D
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