#instantbird log on 06 22 2011

All times are UTC.

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01:13:50 <instantbot> New purplexpcom - General bug 850 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
01:13:52 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=850 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Twitter should start from last known tweet
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01:21:15 <instantbot> New purplexpcom - General bug 851 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
01:21:18 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=851 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Twitter commands
01:21:38 <clokep> flo: I don't think either of those bugs would block 0.3 btw, just filing stuff before I forget. :)
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01:51:55 <clokep> Hmm...I also got some 400 errors from Twitter just now...
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08:05:45 <flo> hello :)
08:06:04 <flo> clokep: any way to reproduce these "error 400"?
08:10:41 <flo> just out of curiosity, I've just tried to run ./update-libpurple.sh
08:11:09 <flo> here's what attempting to merge looks like: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/810
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10:13:10 <clokep> Lots of rejects.
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10:20:07 <flo> I was trying to see if there are security fixes that we should take
10:20:29 <flo> but there's nothing I can understand in the MSN changes
10:21:27 <clokep> Sounds like a 2.9.0 will be released soon anyway. ;)
10:21:41 <flo> an 1.0 too ;)
10:23:46 <clokep> :)
10:25:46 <clokep> Oh bah, no one replied on that bug, did they?
10:25:55 <flo> what remains: add a workaround for the CSS transition brokenness, update the credits, (+ probably dropped: investigate the spellchecker brokenness in the de build that FeuerFliege reported, investigate and fix an strange issue when merging+detaching a buddy several times from a contact... I don't have clear steps to reproduce :()
10:27:27 <clokep> I'm a little nervous to suggest this...but the CSS brokenness...is there any chance updating Mozilla will fix that?
10:27:33 <clokep> I know we haven't really found a bug for it though...
10:28:23 <flo> why being nervous about it? It would be great to remove the workaround once we are on Mozilla 6 :)
10:28:52 <flo> or 7. Don't know yet how many we want to skip.
10:30:27 <flo> another transition bug I dislike, with trivial steps to reproduce:
10:30:33 <flo> select a contact.
10:30:47 <Mic> Do you have a release date in mind already, flo?
10:30:50 <flo> press frantically the left and right arrow keys on your keyboard several times.
10:31:05 <flo> notice that when you stop, you have about 1 change out of 3 to have some duplicated buddies in there
10:31:23 <Mic> I really want to have Buddy Status ready by then but I'm rather busy atm. Knowing a date would help to plan..
10:31:25 <flo> Mic: my first target (already missed I'm afraid) was tomorrow.
10:31:31 <Mic> eek
10:31:36 <flo> the second target is next tuesday.
10:31:45 <flo> after than, ASAP.
10:31:53 <clokep> I can't reproduce that...
10:31:56 <Mic> Ok, should do
10:32:27 <flo> clokep: or sometimes you have less buddies there than you should
10:32:38 <flo> it also affects the "dummy buddy" (the drop target)
10:32:43 <clokep> flo: Ah, I saw it on one of the transitions anyway, guess I just didn't end on the right one. :)
10:32:55 * Mic got a duplicated buddy
10:33:18 <flo> basically you need to start the opposite move before the previous transition is done
10:33:31 <flo> that's probably a bug in our code, not the CSS engine though :)
10:34:19 <Mic> hmm, I just merged another buddy (from a dumm contact) into my real contact with several other buddies and the dummy contact with one buddy in it didn't go away :(
10:34:34 <flo> error in the console?
10:34:49 <Mic> Scratch that, I'm using an old nightly
10:35:04 <Mic> it was the sign-on-in-closed-group-bug
10:35:14 <flo> that was known to be broken if the dummy contact was shown in the "Other contacts" tag
10:35:46 <flo> the "sign-on-in-closed-group-bug" only cause blank lines to remain, not the whole contact
10:36:14 <flo> hmm, I guess now that I've talked about that other transition bug, I can't pretend anymore I don't know about it? :-]
10:36:35 <Mic> The contact is only hidden during the blank line bug, not removed iirc
10:36:55 * clokep is updating to fix Twitter.
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10:37:18 <Mic> The duplicated buddy after the left-right-bug is usable like any other
10:37:26 <Mic> (e.g. "show logs")
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10:41:20 <Mic> I'm also getting the drop-here-message on dummy contacts with the left-right-bug (rather open/close)
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10:42:17 <flo> I'm not getting the fix to push to make that bug disappear though ;)
10:42:17 <Mic> (since it happens too when clicking the open/close icon fast enough)
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10:45:57 <clokep> We should at least file that as a bug. :)
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10:48:12 <flo> I think I know what the problem is :)
10:49:58 * Mic doesn't like the unrounded corners when the status bars are missing on both the conversation window and the blist :(
10:52:12 <flo> Fix: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/811
10:52:59 <flo> this seems like something we can take even very late, right? ;)
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10:58:30 <clokep> :) Nice.
10:59:19 <flo> for the credits I don't remember who we decided to add. Only you and Mook?
11:06:02 <clokep> And one other person I think.
11:06:21 <clokep> You said maybe Mitchell Field.
11:06:29 * clokep is late.
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11:11:38 <FeuerFliege> hi
11:12:19 <FeuerFliege> thanks for fixing the twitter bug :)
11:14:31 <FeuerFliege> Who can review add-ons? And is there a way for you to contact the owner of the old german dictionary add-on?
11:15:25 <FeuerFliege> it would be nice if there is a working dictionary when instantbird will be released.
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11:48:46 <flo> FeuerFliege: Even is usually the person reviewing addons
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12:04:01 <clokep_work> What else is there to do then for release? Release notes, etc. type stuff?
12:17:48 <flo> the release notes will be almost a copy paste from the beta
12:17:55 <flo> we need the localized website
12:18:10 <flo> a (preferably) localized press release (or whatever we want to send to journalists)
12:18:35 <flo> all the new screenshots for the website
12:18:53 <flo> there are also several things I would like us to blog about
12:19:14 <flo> we need to make most add-ons on AIO compatible with 1.0
12:19:18 <flo> (especially message themes)
12:19:36 <clokep_work> OK, so a lot. :)
12:20:52 <clokep_work> What are the topics you'd like to blog about?
12:20:54 <flo> if anybody feels like drafting what we can send to journalists, that will be appreciated
12:21:16 <clokep_work> I was wondering if you have an example of what you'd like to send kind of?
12:21:44 <flo> Tags. Contacts. User icons. Version numbers. IRC add-ons.
12:22:00 <flo> I already know which ideas I want to express in each of these posts
12:22:17 <flo> but actually writing them, and taking the screenshots take an awful amount of time ;)
12:23:51 <flo> clokep_work: no. We should avoid copying typical things that will look boring. It shouldn't look like we are sending them ads. They should get some enthusiasm out of receiving/reading it (feeling "wow, that's interesting for my readers"). They are extremely lazy (or under extreme time pressure, but the result is the same), so there should be a lot of "ready for copy/paste" material in there.
12:25:32 <flo> it should probably state why we are better than competitors (but without actually mentioning them). That is, show that we are good where they suck. (no ads, efficient use of space on the screen, respect the user, limiteless extensibility, ...)
12:25:53 <flo> invite them to contact us if they want more info
12:26:08 <flo> (and to try instantbird themselves of course)
12:26:50 <clokep_work> Alright.
12:26:57 <clokep_work> Maybe I'll start drafting that up a bit.
12:27:14 <clokep_work> AH, we never did do a blog post on Tags/Contacts, did we? :(
12:27:19 <flo> probably express also how we are different (the community blabla Mozilla serves us all the time :-D)
12:27:41 <flo> we've never talked about that
12:27:42 <clokep_work> "IRC add-ons"? I hope you're not referring to my stuff. :P I'm not sure that's in a bloggable state.
12:28:57 <flo> I meant colorize, reply to nick, nickatab (or whatever Mook's add-on is called), and highlight (+ maybe nickserv killer, but I don't like it)
12:29:26 <clokep_work> Ah, OK. You meant the MUC extensions! :)
12:29:38 <flo> things that make IRC usable
12:29:42 <clokep_work> Yup.
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12:30:33 <flo> the idea is to both attract IRC users (especially in the mozilla community) and show add-ons actually exist and extensibility is not just an empty promise
12:31:40 <clokep_work> Makes sense. :)
12:32:20 <clokep_work> It definitely takes time to write this stuff, but it seems like you have a good idea...maybe you could do some outlines and let people fill in the gaps? Like filling in dinosaur DNA with frog DNA, ya know?
12:32:28 <flo> for the "press release", I'm not sure if we want to send a PDF or just a small text to paste in a form on there websites or email directly
12:33:02 <flo> clokep_work: I could. It's pretty hard to write a text that makes perfect sense for the post without having the screenshots though :(
12:33:30 <clokep_work> :-/ You could do <insert screenshot of blah blah here>
12:34:08 <clokep_work> The extensions one we probably have a bunch of screenshots for...but with an old instantbird, which isn't good.
12:34:52 <flo> all the screenshots that require showing the contact list almost imply hacking fake to create them
12:35:21 <clokep_work> Or having a bunch of just join a test room on moznet  with extra names.
12:35:30 <clokep_work> bunch of USE, not just.
12:35:35 <flo> by the way, for the release we also need to fix/improve fake to provide good screenshots. It currently doesn't support user icons, user display name, or contacts with several buddies
12:36:01 <clokep_work> Bah OK>
12:36:22 <flo> all of that is completely boring :(
12:36:52 <flo> well, except if we had in the team someone how is genuinely excited by communicating
12:36:57 <flo> but I'm not that person.
12:37:09 <flo> *who
12:38:27 <clokep_work> I get excited about talking to people one-on-one about this kind of stuff. :) Not "blasting" it out to lots of people/
12:39:12 <flo> it's much more exciting when *seeing* the reaction of people
12:39:19 <flo> for me at least
12:39:32 <flo> especially if I can get feedback and extract improvement ideas out of that
12:41:05 <clokep_work> Yup! :) I've mostly convinced my friend to switch from Digsby to Instantbird.
12:41:23 <clokep_work> The new tabs look was the kicker I think. :) The only thing he wants now is a quick way to (dis)connect accounts.
12:42:54 <flo> "/offline" ?
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12:44:26 <clokep_work> Individual accounts.
12:44:27 <flo> FeuerFliege: do you have any idea of why the dictionnary doesn't work in the beta?
12:44:57 <flo> (I've just verified that the french dictionary works in the French beta, so it seems to be something specific to the de locale)
12:48:51 <flo> or is it somehow taking a french dictionary from my system? :-S
12:49:58 <FeuerFliege> flo: I think it is because no dictionary is in the de-localization :-S
12:50:12 <flo> is there one in the Firefox localization?
12:51:58 <FeuerFliege> I didn't know how to include it. Mom I will check it
12:52:19 <FeuerFliege> flo: no it is a separat
12:52:21 <flo> if there's one for Firefox, we should pick it up automatically (or we have a bug)
12:52:24 <FeuerFliege> addon
12:52:43 <flo> so when you install a Firefox de, you don't have a de dictionary bundled with it?
12:53:29 <FeuerFliege> it seems so. But let me check it quick (i use fx7 and maybe it is added in the release versions)
12:53:46 <clokep_work> Why would it not be included? (o_O) That sems rather silly.
12:53:59 <flo> https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Dictionaries doesn't list anything about german
12:54:13 <flo> clokep_work: license incompatibility
12:54:32 <FeuerFliege> a french firefox build has a french dictionary?
12:54:38 <flo> FeuerFliege: yes
12:54:57 <FeuerFliege> no dictionary with fx5
12:55:12 <FeuerFliege> ok, than it is not your fault ;)
12:55:19 <flo> cool!
12:55:20 <clokep_work> flo: Ah, OK. Licenses really bug me. :P
12:55:26 * clokep_work just wants to write code.
12:55:54 <flo> clokep_work: lawyers just want us to pay them for writing nonsense ;)
12:56:32 <flo> FeuerFliege: so what's the situation on the add-ons website w.r.t that dictionary again?
12:57:49 <FeuerFliege> the version on addon.instantbird.org dosen’t work with instantbird 0.3
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12:58:24 <flo> why?
12:58:30 <flo> is it just the install.rdf thing?
12:59:30 <FeuerFliege> No, i have the check disabled. I saw no way to get in contact with the owner of this addon so i uploaded a patched (just added instantbird to install.rdf) version of the latest AMO-version.
13:00:04 <flo> don't we have his email?
13:00:46 <FeuerFliege> it is not public, that is why i asked if you can contact him.
13:01:36 <FeuerFliege> it is this user: https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/user/14
13:02:11 <flo> that website is such a piece of crap
13:02:28 <flo> the only way to look at a user in the "User manager" part is to "Enter at least 4 characters of the user's e-mail address for auto-completion."
13:03:24 <flo> ah, on the page you linked I have a tiny "edit user" link
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13:19:52 <Mic> clokep_work: does your LJ protocol work by the way?
13:20:12 <clokep_work> Mic: Yes, if I wasn't super lazy and would update the component registration. :P
13:20:22 <clokep_work> It's just a protocol override to XMPP. We should just include them all. ;)
13:20:23 <Mic> It wouldn't be much but at least the "protocols" category wouldn't be empty on AIO then
13:21:04 <Mic> May we can upload the omegle plugin as well
13:21:05 <flo> isn't Omegle already there?
13:21:23 <Mic>  Not that I'd see it
13:21:39 <flo> I remember lowering the maxVersion so that it doesn't auto-update because it caused some startup failures that I haven't been able to understand
13:21:46 <Mic> https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/browse/type:1/cat:2
13:21:55 <flo> "Twitter is over capacity. Please wait a moment and try again." :(
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13:22:32 * clokep_work thought Omegle was "experimental" anyway?
13:22:43 <Mic> Do we need to show the "fail whale" somewhere? ;)
13:23:01 <clokep_work> Yes please. :)
13:23:09 <Mic> bbl
13:23:12 <flo> I'm removing the "(unofficial)" from our twitter application
13:23:16 <clokep_work> https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/search?q=omegle&cat=1%2C2 shows it, but it's experimental.
13:23:24 <flo> as we are less and less likely to ever use the official (xAuth enabled) one
13:23:37 <clokep_work> That's probably why it isn't showing up under the category.
13:23:43 <clokep_work> Yes, I agree.
13:24:43 <flo> I've renamed "Instantbird" to "Instantbird (xAuth)" and I'm failing to rename "Instantbird (unofficial)" to "Instantbird", as that twitter whale loves me too much
13:25:26 <flo> ah, done. Not sure why the logo ended up cropped though :-S
13:28:38 <clokep_work> http://typewith.me/gq7dCewJJi is what I'm working on.
13:28:41 <flo> ok, I sent a smaller logo this time
13:28:42 <clokep_work> It's very rough right now though.
13:29:49 <flo> :)
13:30:56 * flo is looking for the least likely to be broken by a stupid error way to add a setTimeout call for that transition
13:31:38 * clokep_work wonders if you should branch first. :-X
13:31:58 <clokep_work> I guess we could always back it out after and hope there's a better way. :)
13:32:00 <flo> you mean include that crap only in the branch?
13:32:20 <flo> that would prevent all nightly testings during the remaining days prior to release
13:34:56 <clokep_work> Ah, good point.
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13:47:45 <flo> crap, I forgot to commit my previous changes for the buddy animation
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13:52:46 <clokep_work> Got both of them in the same commit? :-/
13:52:59 <flo> I reverted my new changes
14:06:46 <flo> how long after the expect time should I force finish a transition?
14:07:09 <flo> *expected time of completion
14:08:43 <clokep_work> What is the expected time to completion?
14:08:49 <clokep_work> Another 10%? 20% of the time?
14:09:38 <flo> for fading is 1.4s (.4 + 1s before starting)
14:09:50 <flo> for showing/collapsing, it's .2s
14:11:04 <clokep_work> Maybe something like 0.1s and 0.05s then? Those might be too long even.
14:11:10 <clokep_work> 0.1s is pretty noticeable by the eye.
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14:11:40 <flo> even 0.2 is not enough to ensure my timers are never called (when the bug is not reproduced)
14:15:13 <clokep_work> Hmmm...I'm not sure.
14:15:57 <flo> 1s is enough. It won't prevent the animation from looking awful when the bug happens, but at least the contact won't be stuck there as a blank line
14:17:18 <clokep_work> Yes.
14:18:51 <flo> "Note: The "transitionend" event doesn't fire if the transition is aborted because the animating property's value is changed before the transition is completed." would be nice if that could actually work
14:19:25 <flo> but when my timer fires before the transition completes, I receive the transitionend event anyway, which makes the second set of the animation terminate immediately
14:19:55 <clokep_work> So...is that a bug then? ;)
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14:35:02 <flo> there are probably several bugs
14:35:14 <flo> now I'm trying to understand how come I'm starting 7 timers when displaying 5 contacts
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14:35:38 <flo> one of these timers is canceled for some reason
14:35:45 <flo> 5 transitions finish normally
14:36:03 <flo> and the last timer fires... "later" and I've no idea of why it's there
14:37:36 <flo> that's with one of my AIM test account
14:37:47 <flo> with my null-prpl account, things work perfectly :)
14:41:04 <flo> ah, some contacts are reordered when the animation has barely started, because they contain several buddies which don't sign on in the "right" (= preference) order
14:42:33 <clokep_work> That's ugly. :(
14:43:19 <flo> contacts are a fantastic invention :). It makes everything complicated :-D
14:43:32 <flo> or was it animations? :-D
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14:50:28 <clokep_work> Animations I think. :)
14:50:42 <flo> or sorting the buddy list ;)
14:50:56 <flo> everything was so simple when things could stay where they arrived
14:52:08 <clokep_work> I wonder why I sit in #chatzilla sometimes...it just frustrates me. :-/
14:52:36 <flo> ah?
14:54:09 <clokep_work> Just very disrespectful to users coming in and asking for help, blame all their issues on "the browser".
14:54:28 <clokep_work> (But they're a consumer of it, yes you might not like the changes they make, but you were bound to them when you made ChatZilla as an extension to Firefox!)
14:55:26 <clokep_work> Whenever people ask about features the response is "Oh, I don't care about that. I wouldn't accept that change."
14:55:44 <flo> can we make a bot PM'ing a recommendation to try Instantbird to each user leaving that channel without a solution? :-D
14:56:10 <clokep_work> Hahah. Yesterday I wanted to reply in #pidgin that we had a feature someone was asking for. ;)
14:56:23 <flo> it's tempting sometimes ;)
14:56:37 <flo> I've done my best to resist
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14:59:59 <clokep_work> Yeah it's just annoying that they're all like "OMG CZ is perfect, any issue you have is the browser!" :P
15:00:20 <clokep_work> Someone just suggested that CZ needs to be rearchitected and people didn't like that. :(
15:00:43 <clokep_work> Which I suppose is reasonable...but still. They gotta know that the code is pretty old and could use some updating. If not...idk what to say.
15:00:51 <clokep_work> Anyway, I have a reasonable press like release up now.
15:00:59 <flo> given how clean the code we tried to borrow was, I suspect it needs to be fully rewritten (or forgotten)
15:01:16 <clokep_work> flo: I believe that was the summary of my blog post, no? :)
15:01:22 <-- igorko has quit (Ping timeout)
15:01:31 <flo> that their code is a piece of crap?
15:01:39 <flo> it's a common feature anyway ;)
15:01:42 <clokep_work> Yes!
15:02:01 <clokep_work> I've been tempting to try to steal their ident server, but I'm scared what it looks like inside. :(
15:02:22 <flo> is it worth adding some lxr support for it? (or is it on mxr already?)
15:02:25 <clokep_work> Every once in a while I go "Oh I wonder how CZ handles this response..." and I check...and usually can't figure it out at all.
15:02:31 <flo> I think we should include adium someday
15:02:41 <clokep_work> It is not in mxr, I would actually kind of like lxr of it though.
15:02:57 <clokep_work> (I don't think it's in MXR? Let me check.)
15:02:59 <flo> and I would really like to have the pidgin trunk
15:03:13 <flo> but my mtn->hg conversation attempts have always failed
15:03:23 <flo> so I decided to wait for them to officially switch
15:03:39 <clokep_work> Which has been going on for ages haha.
15:03:52 <flo> bah...
15:03:55 <clokep_work> It could be useful to also include Adium, yes.
15:04:05 <flo> I rarely understand anything in there code
15:04:15 <flo> *their
15:04:26 <flo> (Objective-C is not my "favorite" language, obviously)
15:04:35 <flo> but it's sometimes useful to know at least if they are using something or not
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15:07:33 <clokep_work> Right.
15:07:47 <clokep_work> Could also lxr an update version of pidgin if we wanted to?
15:08:12 <-- rikki has quit (Connection reset by peer)
15:08:19 <flo> it hasn't changed much in the last 6 months
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15:09:06 <clokep_work> Real time chat in the browser w/ video or something: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebRTC
15:13:05 <Mic> hmm, it seems to be 'Google'
15:13:40 <clokep_work> Yes, although Mozilla and Opera are mentioned in the blog, etc.
15:14:01 <Mic> I meant that I don't like that they've got their fingers in everywhere
15:16:23 <clokep_work> Oh, yes. SkyNet.
15:17:22 <flo> things start to have in saner ways, but I have added around 50 lines of code :-/
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15:17:29 <flo> *behave
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15:34:19 * clokep_work feels like he's writing a manifesto.
15:34:33 <flo> we already have one on ib.org ;)
15:36:11 <flo> florian@instantbird.org is ok for the contact info at the end, I think journalists prefer having a single person to contact rather than an "obscure" entity
15:39:22 <clokep_work> Yes, I agree.
15:39:58 <flo> they tend to like phone numbers, too :-/
15:40:26 <clokep_work> :(
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15:50:47 <flo> I'm adding 30 lines.
15:51:22 <flo> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/812
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15:53:42 <clokep_work> That's pretty ugly. :-/ But at least mostly confined to one area.
15:54:50 <flo> at first I thought adding the state setter + the clearTimeout call in _transitionEnd would have been enough.
15:55:36 <flo> but the state setter was called too often because of the reordering issues I attempted to explain
15:56:30 <flo> and having to check aEvent.propertyName is just sad. I've not even been able to verify that this test actually works (but at least it doesn't break the common case)
15:57:11 <flo> and if it doesn't, it's not a disaster, it will just cause the collapsing animation to finish immediately when the fading animation was force-finished by the timer
15:58:06 <flo> if nothing seems wrong in that patch, I'll push it, with the credit additions, and start working on the branch + release candidates, changelog, ...
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16:01:55 <clokep_work> I don't see obviously wrong, but it's code I'm very unfamiliar with. :-/
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16:12:10 <Mic> omg, reconnect-after-standbye even worked this time :)
16:13:34 <clokep_work> I don't thinka nything changed to fix that?
16:14:30 <flo> "an instant messaging client should be an extension of the user" is this really what you wanted to write?
16:14:35 <Mic> Isn't it a problem with the network lib not getting that the connection was restored?
16:17:18 <clokep_work> Yes.
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16:17:23 <clokep_work> to flo, I have no idea to Mic.
16:17:54 <clokep_work> Feel free to change it. I'm going to eat.
16:18:23 <flo> I'm not ready to really work on this yet
16:18:23 <Mic> I'm adding some comments also, should hopefully have a different color so it's easy to find
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16:25:11 <clokep_work> It should Mic. :)
16:25:19 <clokep_work> I'll read 'em in a bit..
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16:26:35 <Mic> Do I have to save the text once I'm finished? I guess not?
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16:27:09 <flo> just keep the tab open if you are afraid of losing anything :)
16:27:17 <flo> what's Mook's name again? :-D
16:28:29 <flo> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=543158 seems to have the answer
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16:44:59 <clokep_work> He seems to keep his name well hidden. :P
16:47:05 * flo reads https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:release_process
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16:57:45 <clokep_work> FeuerFliege: I filed that Twitter bug we were having btw. :)
16:57:57 <clokep_work> (The old updates one.)
17:02:35 <flo> http://buildbot.instantbird.org/waterfall :)
17:04:12 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/ee83e4547a98 - Florian Quèze - Update the credits for 0.3.
17:04:13 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/84f6b7c61d5d - Florian Quèze - Avoid race conditions in buddy animations when expanding/collapsing contacts.
17:04:14 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/089e3aea6349 - Florian Quèze - Set version number to 1.0, change default revisions in client.py and add shipped-locales.
17:04:15 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/ca16aba596fb - Florian Quèze - Bug 675 - Add timers to ensure contact CSS transitions always finish.
17:05:35 <FeuerFliege> clokep_work: oh sry. I totally forgot to file it after my meal.
17:07:24 <clokep_work> FeuerFliege: It's fine, I got it. :)
17:08:25 <FeuerFliege> instantbot19:04 “Set version number to 1.0”
17:08:25 <FeuerFliege> Don’t forget to change the max-version limit on addons.instantbird.org
17:08:45 <clokep_work> FeuerFliege: Already been changed. :)
17:08:56 <FeuerFliege> clokep_work: perfect!
17:09:05 <flo> I've not changed anything on the trunk, so nightlies will stay 0.3pre for a few more days
17:09:13 <clokep_work> 1.0.* is in there (and has been for a bit I believe)
17:11:47 <clokep_work> Oh no, you're leaving us behind?! :(
17:11:55 <clokep_work> Leaving us on 0.3 rather.
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17:12:31 <flo> I couldn't decide if the trunk needed to be 0.4a1pre, 0.4pre, 2.0a1pre or 2.0pre :-D
17:13:22 <clokep_work> Bike shedding. :P
17:13:30 <clokep_work> OR 1.1a1pre? ;)
17:14:23 <FeuerFliege> flo: go mozilla style 
17:14:29 <FeuerFliege> 7.0apre
17:15:16 <flo> or we can decrease the number for each release. 0.9a1pre :-P
17:16:32 <FeuerFliege> no. It will be 4 (chosen by fair dice roll)
17:16:54 <flo> 0.9a4pre then? :-P
17:17:08 <FeuerFliege> :D
17:17:14 <flo> or is that the number of release candidate sets we will have to make?
17:17:45 <FeuerFliege> na 4 is just the standard random number
17:17:46 <FeuerFliege> http://xkcd.com/221/
17:17:47 * clokep_work hates version #s.
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17:18:04 <flo> clokep_work: there's link bugzilla (or whatever it's currently called) that should be in that IRC-addons post :)
17:18:53 <flo> clokep_work: I take it you love version numbers for the licenses then? :-P
17:19:39 <clokep_work> flo: Version numbers for licenses are very evil!
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17:20:15 <clokep_work> Does that mean I'm writing the IRC-addons post too? :P
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17:20:27 <flo> no, just that you asked the question earlier
17:20:34 <flo> but feel free to write it! :)
17:20:50 <clokep_work> I should probably update Auto-Link. :-/
17:20:55 <clokep_work> I don't run it anymore, so Idk if it even works. :-X
17:21:24 <flo> I've no ideas of how many add-ons I run/have written/need to update
17:21:34 <flo> I'm always under the impression that I don't use any add-on
17:21:42 <flo> until I look at the add-on manager :-D
17:21:50 <clokep_work> I have at least a handful, yeah.
17:21:53 <flo> things that are well integrated are easily forgotten
17:22:45 <flo> I use: Colorize, Highlight, Omegle (hmm, not really used), Reply To Nick, Show Nick (I should really fix it!), Status Reminder, Time Bubbles (hmm, I can remove the add-on I guess :))
17:24:13 <clokep_work> Yeah I removed Time Bubbles a while ago! :)
17:24:25 <clokep_work> Does Show Nick not work anymore?
17:24:46 <FeuerFliege> disconnect all still works (just need a max-ver update)
17:26:31 <clokep_work> Disconnect All isn't really necessary though?
17:27:32 <flo> Show Nick sure works :)
17:27:38 <clokep_work> flo: Is my memory correct that we eventually want the statusbar of the buddy list to show what protocols are connected with a menu of actions or am I making that up?
17:27:52 <flo> but it's never been prefect (it fails on nicks containing some special characters)
17:28:16 <clokep_work> Oh? I did not know that.
17:28:19 <flo> I agree except for the menu.
17:28:23 <clokep_work> Can you make it case insensitive while you're at it?
17:28:29 <clokep_work> :)
17:28:35 <flo> you can if you fork :-P
17:28:37 <clokep_work> (Although I guess that's not true for all protocols)
17:29:01 <clokep_work> What's the point of them? Just to show what you have or to show what's online also or?
17:29:12 <FeuerFliege> clokep_work: i use reconnect all to trigger autojoin ;)
17:29:27 <flo> you mean of the status bar?
17:29:52 <flo> I want it to show the status (online, offline, offline with error).
17:30:02 <flo> currently we show the account manager only if none of the account is connected
17:30:19 <flo> so if you have an account that fails to connect, it's hidden if some other account successfully connected
17:30:25 <clokep_work> Right, but would you be able to quickly connect/reconnect from it?
17:30:34 <flo> no :)
17:30:35 <clokep_work> (Seems like you should be able to.)
17:30:38 <flo> you would have a tooltip
17:30:44 <flo> explaining the status/showing the error
17:30:47 <clokep_work> Maybe I should save this conversation for next Wednesday. :P
17:31:04 <flo> and double clicking would open/focus the account manager with that account selected
17:32:00 <flo> allowing quick (dis)connect of specific accounts is not a feature I want to make trivially easy to access, so it will be left for add-ons, except if someone can provide a really very good reason why we should do it by default.
17:33:11 <clokep_work> Fair enough.
17:33:24 <flo> people who say they often need to connect/disconnect specific accounts very rarely want it. It's just a side effect of a missing important features
17:33:30 <igorko> "Set version number to 1.0" W00t?
17:33:34 <igorko> i don' get this
17:33:37 * clokep_work will just make an addon that double right click. ;)
17:33:51 <clokep_work> That didn't make sense, but I think you get what I'm going for.
17:33:53 <flo> clokep_work: sure, addons are great for quick workarounds
17:34:05 <flo> even when the UI is crappy
17:34:22 <flo> if we include something we don't like we will have people wining when we will try to remove it.
17:34:45 <flo> igorko: what's the problem? :)
17:34:59 <igorko> what means 1.0 ?
17:35:07 <igorko> why not 0.3 ? 0.4?
17:35:23 <igorko> oh- it's branch
17:35:25 <igorko> i see
17:35:25 <flo> it means "stop telling us you can't try it because 0.* is not stable"
17:36:17 <flo> igorko: we will have a blog post explaining that decision, but it will be very close to the release (the day before maybe?)
17:36:17 <igorko> i though t next will be 0.4
17:36:34 <igorko> ok, whatever
17:36:35 <igorko> :)
17:37:19 <igorko> so there will be no 0.3?
17:37:22 <flo> hmm, what should we do with https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Roadmap ?
17:37:29 <flo> igorko: 0.3b1 and then 1.0
17:37:40 <igorko> what a huge step :)
17:37:54 <flo> 0.2 should have been 0.5
17:39:39 <clokep_work> flo: That roadmap is a mess anyway. :(
17:39:48 <igorko> it would be better to implement file transfer first :(
17:39:49 <clokep_work> But we can just edit the #s, move stuff around I think.
17:40:24 <flo> if I merge 0.4 1.0 and After 1.0 into "Next" and put there all the things we dropped, how does that sound?
17:40:57 <flo> igorko: finding someone who cares about them would be nice :)
17:41:07 <igorko> where is my smiles panel!!! ;)
17:41:11 <clokep_work> flo: Maybe a "Next" and an "Eventually"?
17:41:16 <flo> ahah
17:41:19 <flo> what's the difference?
17:41:31 <clokep_work> "Next" is stuff we care about more than "Eventually" :-D
17:41:45 <flo> that's not explicit
17:41:57 <flo> there are things I care a lot about that may not be done that soon
17:42:11 <flo> "Simple, usable and extensible user interface. " I think we already have this.
17:42:32 <flo> we would probably need a wikipage explaining why file transfer is not implemented yet
17:42:55 <clokep_work> Yes. :-/ Or a blog post?
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17:43:19 <flo> hmm
17:43:49 <flo> I'm not sure people would have a good reaction to a post saying "we haven't done it because it sucks, and seriously, who cares anyway?"
17:44:11 <flo> by the way, it seems pretty clear that some people (especially non-coders) tend to care about it
17:44:22 <flo> it's a bit like webcam support
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17:47:43 <clokep_work> Yes. I've had a lot of friends tell me they really want it.
17:48:33 <igorko> lets add to instantbird fast link for filesovermiles etc :)
17:48:50 <flo> if they want it because they feel the need to have it but don't have the need to actually use it, we can do like Pidgin, a button for that, that doesn't actually work if you attempt to use it :-D.
17:49:26 <igorko> it was joke ;)
17:50:46 <clokep_work> I don't know the last time I wante to use file transfer honestly. :-/
17:50:58 <clokep_work> I just email or dropbox etc.
17:52:06 <clokep_work> We could put it in the FAQ? :P
17:52:08 <flo> the last time I wanted to use it, it didn't work
17:52:18 <clokep_work> Which probably needs to be updated btw...at least w/ some Twitter stuff.
17:52:50 <flo> all the next times I actually used it, I really wished I could pretend not having received the file, as I didn't really want the file in the first place and was annoyed by the popup asking me to give a folder to save it
17:53:09 <flo> yeah, someone should edit the FAQ :)
17:53:37 <clokep_work> Do you have a list somewhere of stuff to do? Just making sure we don't forget!
17:53:49 <flo> not really
17:54:00 <flo> (nothing online at least)
17:55:47 * clokep_work was thinking more of a post it note on your monitor.
17:56:06 <flo> I use Things on my macbook
17:56:11 <flo> + papers on the desk
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17:56:38 <flo> (I have the blog post ideas/drafts on paper for example, wrote them during breakfast)
17:56:51 * clokep_work likes to make real lists so he can cross them out.
17:57:02 <flo> :)
17:57:28 <flo> The only item that I still have in Things related to 0.3 is "localized website" (which actually has sub items)
17:57:42 <clokep_work> Eek.
17:57:53 <flo> others are checked/postponed
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18:05:59 <clokep_work> Well the only things on the roadmap we missed were the richtext stuff and passwords in the password manager.
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18:11:07 <flo> ok, away for dinner. Back later
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18:13:25 * Mic uses Skype for file transfers because it just works.
18:13:52 <Mic> "I don't run it anymore, so Idk if it even works. :-X" same for "Link Bugzilla". I'll try if it works and let you know for the IRC blog posting, clokep
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18:23:18 <clokep_work> Thanks Mic! :)
18:24:45 <-- yan has quit (Ping timeout)
18:27:27 <clokep_work> But yeah, Instantbot links me enough that I don't need Link bugzilla.
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18:27:33 <clokep_work> instantbot: botsnack!
18:27:34 * instantbot smiles
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18:30:25 <clokep_work> Also Mic, yes you don't need to save. Saves automatically. :) I think I'm done w/ it at this point. Gonna email it to myself though.
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18:55:36 <clokep_work> I need to go do some errands, will be back later!
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20:47:59 <Mic> Good evening again :)
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20:51:21 <clokep> Hello.
20:52:02 <clokep> Linux release failed? :(
20:52:39 <flo> timeout on the upload
20:52:59 <flo> they all need a respin anyway :(
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20:57:23 <clokep> Oh? What's up?
20:58:19 <flo> the update system didn't make the builds generate partial update files
20:58:38 <flo> I want partial updates at least from 0.2 and 0.3b1 (I don't really care about the others)
20:59:05 <clokep> Ah, yes. :)
20:59:08 <clokep> That would help.
20:59:56 <flo> I'm not sure a partial update from 0.2 would save much bandwidth though, as almost everything has probably changed (there was no omni.jar at the time, + all binary files have significant changes...).
21:07:43 <clokep> Haha. Yeah, probably.
21:13:44 <instantbot> mnguye23@uic.edu set the Resolution field on bug 849 to FIXED.
21:13:46 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=849 blo, --, ---, nobody, RESO FIXED, Startup Crash, Safe-Mode works
21:24:45 <flo> :)
21:25:40 <flo> however, "since things are now working it would appear something has been fixed." is bullshit. It would rather indicate that the crash is random, because the driver is really poor.
21:26:03 <flo> Or that the whole system is unstable (what about that "overclock black list" crap?) :-D
21:26:34 <flo> "auto-overclock blacklist" (to have the exact quote)
21:28:52 <flo> anyway, I shouldn't blame users :)
21:29:20 <Mic> Good night
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21:32:38 <clokep> Haha, yeah. Just glad that it works! :)
21:35:28 <flo> the next time someone has the "doesn't work, but works on safe mode and it's a fresh profile" issue we will know to tell him to disable graphic acceleration :)
21:38:54 <flo> the more I edit that website, the more php-generated pages we have
21:39:02 <flo> I dislike code duplication, even when it's HTML code :)
21:43:33 <clokep> Yup, too much stuff to edit.
21:43:42 * clokep doesn't understand why commands stopped working in IRC.
21:43:57 <flo> when?
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21:44:51 <flo> it would be nice to include the locale in the quit string :)
21:45:25 <clokep> In IRC-JS. ;)
21:45:26 <clokep> Sorry.
21:45:43 <flo> the "too much stuff to edit." would be really terrible once all those are localizable strings of course ;)
21:45:44 <clokep> "include the locale in the quit string"?
21:45:57 <flo> if it's a localized Instantbird
21:46:13 <flo> "flo left the room (Quit: Instantbird 1.0 fr)."
21:46:25 <clokep> Oh, I see.
21:46:58 <flo> that was just some random idea, it may not actually be a good idea (privacy, ...)
21:47:09 <clokep> I'm not sure why we would want to do it anyway?
21:48:41 <flo> I don't know either :)
21:48:57 <flo> we definitely can have way better ways to do stats about the localized builds usage
21:48:59 <clokep> Hah OK.
21:49:14 <clokep> Yes, I think so.
21:49:36 <clokep> We should strip the "Quit: " and replace it with a localized version though.
21:50:25 <flo> sure. We already agreed on that I think.
21:50:33 <clokep> Yup.
21:53:12 <flo> do you know what you want to change in the FAQ ? :)
21:54:00 <clokep> Not really. I haven't thought about that yet.
21:54:37 <flo> it seems we will have edits to do on the website until the very last moment
21:54:42 <flo> so a string freeze probably won't be possible there
21:55:42 <flo> I don't think we will fully localize the website. It seems localizing the release notes of previous versions would be a pure waste.
21:55:58 <clokep> That does seem to be a little useless, yes.
21:56:04 <flo> (with maybe an exception for 0.2 for the locales in which it was available)
21:56:21 <flo> but we can do that later if someone actually cares about it (I don't)
21:58:39 <flo> I don't know if I should try to include "[en]" tags at the end of links pointing to non-localized pages or if that's also a complete waste of time
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22:47:27 <flo> Good night :
22:47:28 <flo> )
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23:39:11 <clokep> instantbot: uuid
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