#instantbird log on 06 03 2011

All times are UTC.

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00:19:03 <deOmega> ah, Windows  +D  did not work.   here are the steps...
00:21:38 <clokep> Windows+D shouldn't work.
00:21:45 * clokep is now known as clokep_away
00:22:38 <deOmega> With multiple windows opened, Select 'show desktop'.. then work with something on the desktop.. say, open the trash can amd close it.  Then try restoring all teh windows again.  I have had no luck trying the options suggested.  Thanks for the input today.
00:22:47 <deOmega> hi clokep
00:23:22 <deOmega> I tried windows +M and windows +D   
00:23:36 <deOmega> and windows+ shift + M or D
00:23:41 <clokep_away> Windows+M to close evreything, open something else, Windows+Shift+M to open stuff up should work.
00:23:57 <deOmega> ok
00:27:48 <deOmega> AH,  i think i will remove the desktop shortcut as that seems to mess that up
00:27:59 <deOmega> but yep.. IT works that way!  THIS is awesome!
00:28:04 <deOmega> Thank you very much
00:29:43 <deOmega> too bad i cannot remove it so it does not tempt me haha.   have a great evening Clokep!
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00:30:45 <clokep_away> Goodnight.
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01:19:09 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com added attachment 689 to bug 680.
01:19:11 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 689 on bug 680.
01:19:12 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=680 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Localize Twitter code
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08:09:30 <waynenguyen> Hi, is it possible to minimize the conversation to trace also? (without closing the conversations)
08:11:27 <waynenguyen> *tray
08:11:30 <Mic> No, (not yet?)
08:12:03 <waynenguyen> Thanks Mic :) maybe i'll try an add-on about it.
08:12:26 <Mic> Eventually flo would like that conversation windows could be close altogether
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08:14:19 <waynenguyen> Yeah, I mean minimize the conversation windows. Hmm is "close altogether"  different from minimize?
08:16:17 <Mic> Close means that the window completely goes away, minimize means that it is hidden
08:16:40 <Mic> MintrayR only hides the taskbar item and displays the icon in the tasktray instead if I'm not mistaken
08:16:55 <Mic> (Our minimize to tray solution is based on MinTrayR)
08:17:50 <waynenguyen> Thanks Mic. Got it.
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08:26:05 <flo> hello :)
08:29:32 <Chaz6> G'day
08:37:44 <Chaz6> So when's instantbird arriving for maemo and meego? P)
08:39:18 <Mic> Plan is to buy Nokia first :P
08:39:37 <Chaz6> Cool :)
08:39:47 <flo> Is someone interested in developing for these platforms?
08:40:28 <rikki> depends on if maemo interests me
08:40:30 <Chaz6> I'll see if i can set up a build for it
08:40:40 <Chaz6> Meego would be better, meaemo is pretty dead now
08:41:43 <rikki> if it was ported wouldn't the GUI have to be redesigned to make it easy to touch based devices though?
08:42:08 <Chaz6> A little bit of tweaking perhaps
08:42:10 <flo> sure, someone would need to develop a suitable UI
08:42:16 <Chaz6> Perhaps could deliver it as an extension
08:42:20 <flo> but that's needed for Android too
08:43:07 <rikki> i can help with a redesigning if someone does do it
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09:11:38 <flo> I don't understand how this could possibly work: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/themes/accounts.css#92
09:11:54 <flo> the file has only 7 "endif" for 8 ifdef
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09:27:21 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org denied review for attachment 688 on bug 819.
09:27:23 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=819 tri, --, ---, benediktp, ASSI, Triple border at the bottom of the account list in the account manager
09:41:34 <instantbot> benediktp@ymail.com added attachment 690 to bug 819.
09:41:35 <instantbot> benediktp@ymail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 690 on bug 819.
09:41:36 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=819 tri, --, ---, benediktp, ASSI, Triple border at the bottom of the account list in the account manager
09:41:54 <instantbot> benediktp@ymail.com added attachment 691 to bug 820.
09:41:56 <instantbot> benediktp@ymail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 691 on bug 820.
09:41:57 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=820 nor, --, ---, benediktp, ASSI, Illegible inactive menubar on contactlist, followup to checkin 97a9f46c57db (bug 620)
09:43:28 <flo> Mic: that new patch in bug 819 is easier to read :). Is it just a patch version of my suggestion or have you actually verified that it works? :)
09:43:50 <Mic> I tried it
09:44:42 <Mic> I was doing bug 820 anyways, so everything was already opened and loaded and it was only a few edits
09:44:47 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=820 nor, --, ---, benediktp, ASSI, Illegible inactive menubar on contactlist, followup to checkin 97a9f46c57db (bug 620)
09:46:19 <flo> Mic: OK, cool :) Thanks
09:47:19 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 690 on bug 819.
09:47:22 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=819 tri, --, ---, benediktp, ASSI, Triple border at the bottom of the account list in the account manager
09:47:29 <instantbot> benediktp@ymail.com added attachment 692 to bug 820.
09:47:32 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=820 nor, --, ---, benediktp, ASSI, Illegible inactive menubar on contactlist, followup to checkin 97a9f46c57db (bug 620)
09:48:47 <flo> :)
09:48:51 <flo> I was about to request a screenshot
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09:50:53 <Mic> It's readable on both of my two screens now. Let's hope I don't have too weird screen settings ;)
09:52:49 <flo> what does #blistMenubar > menu:-moz-window-inactive {  color: GrayText; } do? Isn't the menu text already of this color for inactive windows?
09:55:49 <Mic> No, it's lighter than this color and more difficult to read
09:56:55 <flo> ok :)
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10:02:52 <instantbot> benediktp@ymail.com added attachment 693 to bug 820.
10:02:54 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=820 nor, --, ---, benediktp, ASSI, Illegible inactive menubar on contactlist, followup to checkin 97a9f46c57db (bug 620)
10:03:36 <Mic> Here's the comparison between the different text colors/looks
10:05:36 <Even> Mic, I looked at the result.
10:05:39 <Even> it's really better.
10:05:55 <Even> But I think you should lower the transparency too.
10:06:01 <Even> The readability it not that great.
10:06:35 <Even> I think it's cool but we should put more emphasis on readability than coolness :)
10:07:04 <Mic> That's why I added the text shadow to all the elements on the header, not only the menu bar
10:07:21 <Even> I know, but it's still not enough.
10:07:28 <Even> Or so I believe.
10:07:33 <flo> do we have the same issue with the text in the status bar of inactive conversation windows?
10:08:38 <Even> No, the transparency is much better there I believe. And the text is black.
10:09:00 <flo> I think the background color/transparency is exactly the same there
10:09:07 <Mic> it is
10:09:11 <flo> but yeah, it's possible the text doesn't turn gray when the window is inactive
10:09:29 <Mic> It's black no matter if the window is active or inactive
10:09:35 <flo> ok
10:09:56 <Even> yeah, there is no problem there, thout Etienne says it should be less transparent there too.
10:10:00 <Even> He dosn't quite like it.
10:10:06 <Even> But who cares what I thinks ? :P
10:10:08 <Even> *he
10:10:12 <Even> I too for that matter :)
10:10:29 <Even> The one who does the patch should do as he feels, I'm only commenting :P
10:11:27 <Mic> I don't think it can please everyone but I'll try that it is as many as possible ;)
10:13:14 <flo> Even: unfortunately, it seems the reviewer(s) have a say too ;).
10:13:30 <Even> I'm not one :D
10:13:43 <Even> And you are the reviewers... And I believe you don't care tha much : you hate Windows :p
10:13:51 <Mic> One thing I see quite often, even though i don't like it at all is the black desktop color with the dark window borders
10:14:20 <Mic> nevertheless it should look good on such settings
10:14:42 <Even> Well, even without using a dark desktop, you can have a wallpaper that as much dark.
10:14:48 <Even> Should still looks good.
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10:19:02 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org added attachment 694 to bug 680.
10:19:03 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org requested review from clokep@gmail.com for attachment 694 on bug 680.
10:19:04 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=680 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Localize Twitter code
10:19:09 <flo> ah, clokep, just when I needed you! :)
10:19:12 <flo> (hello!)
10:19:16 <clokep> Hello. :)
10:19:20 <clokep> Ah something needed tweaking?
10:19:35 <flo> "needed" is a bit strong here ;)
10:20:07 <clokep> Yes the string bundle stuff sucks. And has really weird capitalization of it's functions which I got wrong at least 10 times.
10:20:40 <flo> I hate having to build an array AND provide its length ;)
10:20:55 <clokep> That too. :)
10:21:35 <clokep> Bah that you put that into jsProtoHelper?!
10:22:01 <flo> hm?
10:22:19 <flo> it's not more jsProto unrelated than ClassInfo or setTimeout
10:23:02 <clokep> True. :) Just more for me to move out eventually. ;)
10:23:14 <flo> but if you want it in its own module, it's possible too
10:23:40 <flo> that would allow me to use it everywhere in the UI where I need stringbundles but don't want to replace the DOMWindow implementation of setTimeout
10:24:11 <flo> do the helper code in itself and the helper API look reasonable?
10:26:05 <clokep> Yes. I was just trying to reaad up on defineLazyGetter. :)
10:26:32 <Mic> On dark backgrounds it would be so nice to have a lighter border at the outside of everything than the darker that we currently have
10:26:42 <clokep> My only other question about it is whether you could use it twice on the same page to load two different bundles, but that's not an issue right now.
10:27:25 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com granted review for attachment 694 on bug 680.
10:27:28 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=680 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Localize Twitter code
10:27:34 <flo> you would just need to call l10nHelper several times and keep the result in different variables
10:28:34 <flo> all "XPCOMUtils.defineLazyGetter(this, "_", function() l10nHelper("chrome://purple/locale/twitter.properties")); does is really this._ = l10nHelper("chrome://purple/locale/twitter.properties"); the first time some code attempts to use this._
10:30:53 <clokep> Right. :)
10:33:40 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org cancelled review?(florian@instantbird .org) for attachment 689 on bug 680.
10:33:41 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=680 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Localize Twitter code
10:34:18 <flo> booh, bugzilla didn't want me to mark a patch as r+ and obsolete at the same time :(
10:34:42 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 689 on bug 680.
10:37:08 <clokep> Haha, bugzilla causes pain sometimes. :P
10:38:35 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 819 to FIXED.
10:38:38 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=819 tri, --, 0.3a3, benediktp, RESO FIXED, Triple border at the bottom of the account list in the account manager
10:38:58 <clokep> Mic: What's the third image in that last one you uploaded? "Default inactive"? I'm not sure what that means.
10:39:08 <clokep> Is that the OLD inactive or with the patch inactive?
10:39:16 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 680 to FIXED.
10:39:18 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=680 nor, --, 0.3a3, clokep, RESO FIXED, Localize Twitter code
10:39:33 <flo> clokep: inactive window, without the color: GreyText of the patch
10:39:51 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/5ea81eb82790 - Patrick Cloke - Bug 680 - Localize Twitter code, r=fqueze.
10:39:51 <Mic> flo asked whether the default color of text on inactive menu bar was the same as GrayText
10:39:52 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/2c7509660b28 - Benedikt Pfeifer - Bug 819 - [Aero-only] Remove triple border at the bottom of the account list in the account manager, r=fqueze.
10:40:25 <clokep> Oh OK.
10:41:06 <Mic> *if
10:42:07 <flo> Mic: are you going to try today to tweak the background opacity as Even suggested? If not, I'm ok with taking the current attachment as is.
10:45:18 <Mic> Rather not .. I'd be content to find a fix for bug 818 today
10:45:21 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=818 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Automatic input textbox resize broken by checkin 97a9f46c57db (bug 620)
10:46:34 <flo> have you had any luck with moving the border to the splitter instead of the deck?
10:46:34 <Mic> The bad thing is that the splitter has a grey background color and putting the border there makes it darker than it were on the white background (assuming that this is actually the explanation)
10:46:52 <flo> ah
10:48:36 <flo> can you try adding .conv-bottom { -moz-box-sizing: content-box; } in the CSS?
10:51:45 <flo> hmm, it's possible playing with that CSS property would allow us to both fix the bug you have, and to remove the _TEXTBOX_VERTICAL_OVERHEAD crap in conversation.xml (that would make the code much more robust and readable)
10:52:38 <flo> I'll experiment a bit with that this afternoon if you don't beat me to it :)
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11:01:45 <Mic> I don't think I can try today .. i'll be away for the rest of the day
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12:25:23 <flo> I just played a bit with Google Chart Tools: http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/stats/
12:27:36 <Chaz6> Neat
12:27:45 <Chaz6> Randomly, here's a very pretty stats visualization - http://superfad.com/missioncontrol/
12:28:27 <clokep_work> Cool. :) Always interesting to see release dates on there too I think.
12:29:01 <flo> yeah, and now it's an auto-updating chart, no need for me to do anything for you to enjoy up to date data :)
12:30:45 <clokep_work> Oh, yay. :)
12:31:21 <flo> Chaz6: you page tells me "Sorry, your browser doesn't support WebGL Please try with Chrome, Firefox 4" (I'm on Firefox 4)
12:31:39 <clokep_work> Oh hey, so one of my friends can connect to Facebook Chat and receive messages, but cannot send outgoing messages. She was using Adium, I had her try it in Instantbird and same thing. Any idea what's up w/ that?
12:31:48 <flo> you still need to bug me about adding download counts there too though :)
12:32:08 <flo> what do you mean by "cannot send outgoing messages"?
12:32:44 <flo> it already happened to me that the facebook XMPP gateway was overloaded, and I could receive messages immediately, but the messages I sent were delayed by a few minutes (5 or 6 IIRC).
12:33:50 <clokep_work> I mean if she sent me a message from Facebook I never received it (but it showed up for her, but I expect that to not mean much).
12:34:34 <flo> did it show up for her on the facebook website?
12:35:27 <Chaz6> flo: well i think that's pretty self-explanatory :)
12:35:36 <Chaz6> It might not be your browser
12:35:44 <Chaz6> Could be no 3d support 
12:35:52 <flo> probably the display driver, or something
12:35:54 <clokep_work> flo: I do not think so.
12:35:56 <Chaz6> *nodnods*
12:36:00 <Chaz6> Sorry i didnt read your second message just then
12:36:05 <clokep_work> Yeah, the drivers are probably black listed.
12:36:14 <clokep_work> (Mine didn't work either.)
12:37:17 <flo> clokep_work: well, maybe you'll need to do a JS proto connecting to facebook via their OAuth API so that you can have that friend talk to you ;).
12:37:38 <flo> if she's someone you care a lot about, it may be a great motivator for figuring out how facebook works :).
12:38:09 <Chaz6> It's a shame t hey dont bother including a software renderer
12:39:16 <clokep_work> flo: We usually use AIM or GTalk, she uses it for other people. :P I don't care if she can talk to them. ;)
12:39:21 <clokep_work> But it's on ym list of things anyway.
12:39:31 <clokep_work> (The Facebook OAuth API.)
12:40:02 <flo> a todo list is the best place to put things so that we don't feel too bad about not doing them ;)
12:42:22 <clokep_work> I filed a bug on it. ;) Bug 538
12:42:26 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=538 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Reimplement Facebook chat
12:42:33 <clokep_work> Oops, Mic filed that one actually.
12:42:34 <clokep_work> Not me.
12:43:32 <clokep_work> But I probably should make a to do list somewhere...
12:43:37 <flo> bugzilla is even better: someone else's "maybe to do" list :)
12:44:35 <clokep_work> I mean my todo list isn't that long right now: work on bugs for 0.3, fix up vertical tabs for 0.3, finish reformulating the IRC stuff I'm doing, compile SIPE, work on IRC. :P
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12:45:50 <flo> :)
12:47:04 <FeuerFliege> hi
12:47:22 <clokep_work> Hello.
12:47:46 <clokep_work> Btw I was wondering -- does AIO show the most popular extensions btw? We should ensure the ones we control are ready for 0.3 when it's released.
12:48:08 <flo> FeuerFliege: hello.
12:48:47 <flo> so if I understood your email correctly, Sven keeps being the locale manager for "de", and wants you to be able help easily by directly pushing your changes to the repository? :)
12:49:15 <flo> clokep_work: that's a nightmare. Especially for the 200 or so converted message themes.
12:49:36 <flo> I'm trying to motivate Even to find a solution as quickly as possible to bump their compatibility ;)
12:49:52 <FeuerFliege> flo: yes.
12:50:00 <flo> which username do you want?
12:50:17 <flo> Loki? FeuerFliege? 
12:50:46 <clokep_work> flo: Yeah, message themes might be an issue...I was thinking more of Buddy Status, Vertical Tabs, other ones a  lot of people use that are (semi-)actively maintained.
12:50:49 <FeuerFliege> Oh did i wrote the mail with my Loki-Alias? Sorry
12:50:57 <FeuerFliege> FeuerFliege would be nice
12:51:02 <flo> ok!
12:53:07 <flo> FeuerFliege: I just emailed you a password
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12:53:43 <deOmega> Good day .
12:53:55 <clokep_work> Hello.
12:54:10 <FeuerFliege> flo: thx
12:54:54 <flo> FeuerFliege: you should be able to push to the de repository. If you make important contributions there, don't forget to add your name in credits.dtd (if you want your name to be visible in the about dialog)
12:54:58 <flo> FeuerFliege: you are welcome :)
12:55:02 <flo> deOmega: hello :)
12:55:33 <deOmega> This morning for some reason, IB would not connect.  I looked in my account manager and I could not select anything there....
12:56:14 <clokep_work> deOmega: Any errors in the console?
12:56:14 <deOmega> SO i restarted it a couple times trying to figure out  what the heck is going on.   All that was coming up was my buddy list saying.. OFFLINE
12:56:41 <flo> were you connected to the Internet?
12:57:21 <deOmega> Turns out all i had to do was select ONLINE. lol
12:57:48 <flo> do you have an add-on that remembers the last status and restores it at the next startup?
12:58:01 <deOmega> THing is.. I never selected offline.  SO that did not occur to me
12:58:11 <deOmega> yes i do.  from skeledev
12:58:13 <flo> typing "/offline" is enough
12:58:35 <FeuerFliege> flo: I will try to push a small changeset as a test. And if everything works fine my target for this weekend is > 90%. 
12:58:40 <flo> have you changed the value of the "When Instantbird starts:" preferences (General tab, in the "startup" group)
12:59:17 <FeuerFliege> when will 0.3 released?
12:59:19 <flo> FeuerFliege: it gets more interesting when you reach 100%, because then you receive an xpi file that you can install to test your work :)
12:59:23 <flo> when it's ready
12:59:25 <clokep_work> Or hit "offline" in the jump list. ;)
12:59:32 <flo> clokep_work: ahah!
12:59:45 <clokep_work> FeuerFliege: But hopefully string frozen soon (with a beta release)!
12:59:48 <deOmega> ha. no, i did not change anything
12:59:52 <flo> FeuerFliege: we plan to release a localized nightly soon (early next week if possible)
13:00:23 <deOmega> Speaking of which.. . do we still need that  remember status message addon?
13:00:26 <flo> errr, I meant beta
13:00:39 <clokep_work> deOmega: If you're on wireless it's possible you didn't have a connection when Instantbird first booted, then your status was kept each time you restarted.
13:00:46 <FeuerFliege> flo: no merge? Fx builds fine with ~90%. I’ll see how far i get on this weekend.
13:00:46 <flo> deOmega: the feature hasn't been integrated yet
13:00:58 <FeuerFliege> bye!
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13:01:19 <flo> FeuerFliege: we currently don't merge incomplete locales. That may change for Instantbird 0.3+
13:01:32 <flo> (not sure he reads the logs :-|)
13:01:46 <deOmega> clokep_work: OK.  I am not concerned about it  really though, especially since i resolved it, however, i was wondering  what the outcome may be if it happened to someone not as tech savvy as myself lol
13:02:28 <clokep_work> Hopefully they release it says "Offline" and they change it to "Available" :)
13:02:38 <deOmega> hahahaha
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13:05:18 <clokep_work> *realize
13:06:06 <deOmega> I like that mike is addressing the  color of the toolbar menu color  on the inactive buddy list.  Though it is  cool indeed... i wondered if it should be the standard as opposed to a customized feature.
13:06:16 <deOmega> sorry  Mic
13:06:45 <clokep_work> How would it be customized?
13:06:55 <deOmega> text color
13:07:11 <deOmega> I do not know.. i figure someone   woudl do it in a theme or so
13:07:37 <deOmega> And i like it, but   though I like it, i just wondered if it should be standard/default
13:08:06 <clokep_work> Something has to be standard default!
13:08:18 <clokep_work> And right now you can't see them on a black background so it needs to be changed. :)
13:08:25 <clokep_work> It could pretty eaisly be changed in a theme though, yes.
13:08:45 <deOmega> correct .  I agree on all you just said
13:08:53 <deOmega> (I think that is what i was saying)
13:08:59 * flo is writing a blog post to explain the rational behind time bubbles
13:10:43 <deOmega> I honestly think that Mic has done  an awesome job.   Truly has transformed IB for windows users.
13:11:13 <deOmega> a softer and sexier experience :)
13:11:57 <flo> "Try the new Instantbird, for a softer and sexier experience!" :-D
13:12:19 <Chaz6> Alright sex me up
13:12:20 <deOmega> Where can i get it????
13:14:19 <Chaz6> Is it normal that i can never find any extensions through Tools->Add-ons->Search? (on nightly)
13:14:54 <clokep_work> Chaz6: Yes, the website hasn't been updated for that functionality.
13:15:44 <clokep_work> "a softer and sexier experience"? I think we'll need some more protocol plug-ins, maybe a new icon (Foxkeh esque) and a clickthrough 18+ only thing. :P
13:16:28 <clokep_work> flo: Good luck explaining that!
13:16:39 <deOmega> lol
13:16:59 <clokep_work> Chaz6: See bug 529
13:17:02 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=529 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, update addons.instantbird.org integration in the add-on manager to follow mozilla 2 changes.
13:17:16 <flo> clokep_work: is it for the clickthrough 18+ that you wish me good luck explaining that?
13:17:31 <clokep_work> Nah, I meant the time bubbles. :)
13:17:38 * clokep_work is curious how many people would even notice.
13:17:47 <flo> if they don't it's good!
13:18:07 <flo> the idea is to attempt to get back those who run away with the previous Bubbles theme :)
13:18:23 <clokep_work> :)
13:18:36 <flo> and maybe to show some not-yet-users that we care about user experience (yeah, softer, etc...)
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13:22:49 <deOmega> what is supposed to be in the statusbar on the buddy list?  Things to come?
13:23:02 <flo> yes
13:23:06 <clokep_work> Yes, "things to come".
13:23:07 <deOmega> OK
13:23:14 <clokep_work> How much has the user interface changed from beta 2?
13:23:20 <clokep_work> The top of the conversation UI I know.
13:23:25 <clokep_work> And the buddy list UI?
13:23:29 <clokep_work> And the Firefox 4 tabs?
13:23:30 <flo> writing the release notes?
13:23:40 <flo> the user icons?
13:23:43 <clokep_work> Trying to convince my friend to use Instantbird over Adium. :)
13:24:03 <clokep_work> But she "like[s] the interface of adium better".
13:25:04 <flo> if she doesn't mention anything specific, it probably means "what I have works fine, don't bother me with something else"
13:26:58 <deOmega> You know though Clokep.. that is a great milestone for IB.. the day your friend is won over  :)
13:27:41 <clokep_work> Probably. :)
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13:28:00 <clokep_work> HAHAHAH
13:28:08 <clokep_work> deOmega: Apparently "adium is… softer?"
13:28:37 <deOmega> OK, so we will work on the sexier... publish images of hello kitty.  lol
13:29:44 <flo> clokep_work: a friend of mine went back to using WLM instead of Instantbird because Instantbird destroyed her modem (I'm not really sure of how she can believe Instantbird is more likely responsible than the storm that evening but...).
13:30:22 <clokep_work> flo: :) People don't understand technology.
13:30:38 <flo> really? :-D
13:39:54 * clokep_work is filing an old bug we talked about.
13:41:21 <deOmega> I keep pondering asking this question so i may as well toss it out
13:42:13 <deOmega> Any thoughts to giving the white areas on IB an offwhuite color.. that is..  Non-standard from the os white.. so it stands out more?
13:43:03 <deOmega> part of it is  my lack of tolerance for bright white on my eyes, however, so there is some bias here.
13:43:54 <flo> which white areas?
13:45:15 <deOmega> such as the background on the buddy list..
13:46:51 <deOmega> where the names are
13:50:16 <deOmega> I should add that  it  does not affect me, because i have my system default changed.. but just a thought I always wanted to toss out  for what it may be worth.
13:52:18 <clokep_work> It can be affected by the system default, so I don't think we should hard code it to something different.
13:55:19 <deOmega> OK,    Just been meaning to toss it out there for whatever it may be worth.
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14:00:26 <clokep_work> Yup, of course. :) Thanks.
14:00:37 <clokep_work> If it couldn't be set by the system, I'd think maybe...but otherwise you want it to match other windows.
14:02:37 <flo> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/730
14:03:22 <clokep_work> I'll read that in a second.
14:03:35 <clokep_work> We need to make sure we have people read it who haven't had you explain it too though!
14:04:08 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 823 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
14:04:10 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=823 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Localize new account selection screen for "popular accounts" of the locale
14:04:30 <flo> I think the screenshots will make this much more understandable
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14:05:27 <clokep_work> Hopefully that makes sense. :) (the bug I just filed)
14:05:37 <deOmega> clokep_work: I really see your point.  Thanks.
14:08:47 <clokep_work> deOmega: No problem, thanks for the feedback. :)
14:09:53 <flo> clokep_work: by "We need to make sure we have people read it who haven't had you explain it too though!", did you mean to ask deOmega to read my draft? ;)
14:12:56 <clokep_work> Possibly. :) And anyone else in this room.
14:12:58 <deOmega> what draft?
14:13:07 <clokep_work> The pastebin from above.
14:13:16 <clokep_work> I'm reading it now.
14:13:44 <deOmega> If i need to read something, i can  fit it in today.. ok..  what am i looking for.. clarity?
14:14:19 <deOmega> ok, i would assume so.
14:15:54 <clokep_work> flo: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/731
14:16:32 <clokep_work> Some changes, mostly grammar / making things sound slightly different.
14:16:43 <clokep_work> But I think it offers good insight into how you came up with the theme. :)
14:16:48 <clokep_work> I think screenshots will ehlp a lot.
14:20:01 <deOmega> nice job on the original and the edit :)
14:22:34 <deOmega> I have minor suggestions, but  dunno how to highlight the changes i would make.. and they are really  grammatical
14:22:53 <deOmega> so will try   them by lines.
14:23:08 <flo> deOmega: you can edit it in the textbox at the bottom of the page
14:23:14 <flo> and then we can look at the diff
14:23:25 <deOmega> Oh  lol
14:23:28 <deOmega> I knew that :)
14:27:41 <deOmega> give me amoment..  multitasking 
14:35:06 <deOmega> You know  man
14:35:27 <deOmega> This is really impressive writing
14:37:36 <deOmega> (I review  papers fairly often , so this is not an empty compliment)   
14:38:15 <deOmega> This brings out a lot of Flo's personality
14:39:07 <flo> deOmega: "This brings out a lot of Flo's personality" I think this is something you can apply about the software itself by the way ;).
14:39:23 <flo> (and it's not necessarily only a compliment)
14:41:32 <deOmega> i am reading it intermittently.. sorry...  but it is so gripping that I would  delay my other tasks if it was not money on the line lol
14:41:59 <flo> lol
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15:06:04 <deOmega> Ok, http://pastebin.instantbird.com/732
15:06:29 <deOmega> I  truly look forward to seeing this with teh images
15:06:49 <deOmega> and yeah i know.. reflection/reflexion  :)
15:07:01 <flo> if you have a nightly, you can just try it ;)
15:07:31 <deOmega> I have anightly .. is that why it  jumps around now and then?
15:07:56 <deOmega> i noticed with that  message style .. i tried it yesterday.. it   sorta blinks now and then
15:08:40 <deOmega> I did not change much of what you said.    But it really convest a lot to teh point of selling the theme
15:08:47 <deOmega> the  style
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15:09:33 <deOmega> *conveyts
15:09:53 <deOmega> **conveys lol
15:10:27 <clokep_work> Yes, I left reflexion as well. :)
15:11:18 <flo> I don't know what less technical alternative for "pretty print" we could use
15:11:33 <clokep_work> Just link to the wikipedia article. ;)
15:11:36 <flo> I hesitated between "pretty print" and "serialize", as both seemed technical
15:13:52 <deOmega> Let me see  what woud make sense to me lol
15:14:39 <deOmega> on that same line..  cange in useD to in use
15:15:11 <deOmega> *change
15:19:57 <deOmega> so after looking up prettyprint... maybe make it one word so that non-techies know it is something techie and not  an error (I assumed it  was an error at first)
15:21:22 <flo> wikipedia's article's first paragraph seems pretty clear :)
15:24:13 <deOmega> either case flo.. that is really  very nice writing that could even attract developers like clokep and mic :)
15:24:14 <clokep_work> You can always put it in quotes too "pretty print" to show it as a specific term.
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15:25:13 <deOmega> clokep_work: makes sense.  I agree
15:28:11 <deOmega> because it is also very likely that most who will read that will be more aware than i am. I believe that most people like me  would just like to know that it works.. and the details behind how it works may be too overwhelming.  However... that is still a nice and informative read for anyone for anyone inclined
15:28:51 <flo> deOmega: whether it works or not totally depends on the user ;)
15:29:07 <deOmega> I did not realize how much  went into the bubbles theme
15:30:49 <deOmega> this text entry thing still does not auto  expand :)
15:31:24 <flo> I just spent the last hour fixing that
15:32:30 <deOmega> ah .. thank you
15:32:39 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org added attachment 695 to bug 818.
15:32:40 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=818 maj, --, ---, florian, ASSI, Automatic input textbox resize broken by checkin 97a9f46c57db (bug 620)
15:32:47 <deOmega> lol
15:33:49 <flo> given how black-magic like this code is, I assume nobody wants to review https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/attachment.cgi?id=695&action=diff ? :-D
15:35:54 * clokep_work passes.
15:35:57 <flo> do we agree that bug 793 doesn't require any new string?
15:36:00 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=793 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Twitter timeline should have a topic / icon
15:36:13 <clokep_work> I can't see why it would add any strings.
15:36:26 <flo> so do we care about it for the beta?
15:36:52 <flo> it looks really bad for twitter timeline screenshots though
15:36:52 <clokep_work> Probably not.
15:37:17 <flo> and if we fix bug 792, it will be even worse
15:37:19 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=792 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Need empty text for topics
15:37:30 <flo> "This room has no topic" isn't really appropriate for twitter
15:42:58 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 691 on bug 820.
15:42:59 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=820 nor, --, ---, benediktp, ASSI, Illegible inactive menubar on contactlist, followup to checkin 97a9f46c57db (bug 620)
15:45:59 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 820 to FIXED.
15:46:02 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=820 nor, --, 0.3a3, benediktp, RESO FIXED, Illegible inactive menubar on contactlist, followup to checkin 97a9f46c57db (bug 620)
15:46:40 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 818 to FIXED.
15:46:42 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=818 maj, --, 0.3a3, florian, RESO FIXED, Automatic input textbox resize broken by checkin 97a9f46c57db (bug 620)
15:49:32 <flo> I hesitate between dropping the 3 remaining beta-wanted bugs, or writing to localizers that we are mostly frozen but may still add a few (counted on the fingers of a single hand) strings.
15:50:08 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/dca75317ad29 - Florian Quèze - Bug 818 - Change the way the 'textbox vertical overhead' is computed in the textbox sizing algorithm so that it still works when the conv-bottom deck has a border.
15:50:10 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/4e858fa2022e - Benedikt Pfeifer - Bug 820 - [Aero only] Improve readability of the menu bar and status selector text, r=fqueze.
15:55:26 <clokep_work> How difficult would it be to do? It's two more API calls + watching for your own Tweets in the timeline?
15:58:12 <flo> 2 API calls?
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16:19:54 <clokep_work> 2 Twitter API calls.
16:20:02 <clokep_work> One to get your status, one to get the icon.
16:20:07 <clokep_work> Or maybe we have them already? I'm not sure.
16:20:16 <flo> I don't know
16:20:37 <flo> I think we receive (and drop) some data at the begining of the streaming connection
16:21:27 * deOmega wants  icons in his message style, but teh bubbles idea is exciting
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16:38:52 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org added attachment 696 to bug 743.
16:38:54 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=743 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Larger and more discoverable drop targets for merging buddies into contacts
16:39:19 * tymerkaev_away is now known as tymerkaev
16:40:13 <flo> https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/attachment.cgi?id=696 thoughts?
16:41:25 <clokep_work> Should it be aligned w/ like the "Unknown" text (horizontally) so it's "part" of the contact?
16:42:26 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org added attachment 697 to bug 743.
16:42:30 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=743 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Larger and more discoverable drop targets for merging buddies into contacts
16:42:40 <flo> clokep_work: I can try that :)
16:44:17 <clokep_work> That would show up for any contact w/ only one buddy?
16:44:30 <flo> yes, when clicking the "expand" button
16:44:40 <clokep_work> Ahyes, I just found that part of the code. :)
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16:50:53 <flo> so now the question is... is it good enough to land?
16:52:03 <clokep_work> The only issue I could see is if people don't lke having it on EVERY expanded view, even if they have more of that contact...but there's no reason to expand the view if there's only one buddy. :)
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16:53:16 <flo> by the way, there are known bugs that we can address (or not) in follow ups. For example, it doesn't reappear after detaching a buddy if there were only 2
16:55:24 <clokep_work> Ah, I see.
16:55:31 <clokep_work> That's OK I think though.
16:55:36 <clokep_work> They at least know they can combine them?
16:55:52 <flo> yeah, the point is mostly to improve the feature's discoverability
16:56:12 <clokep_work> I think we should land it, see if we get feedback from the beta.
16:56:34 <flo> see tomorrow if it's horrible on anything bug Mac ;)
16:57:14 <clokep_work> Hah.
16:58:02 <flo> I think it should be OK though :)
16:59:10 <flo> so only bug 792 remains with a needed string
16:59:13 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=792 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Need empty text for topics
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17:04:32 <clokep_work> :) Awesome. And that should be a relatively simple bug.
17:20:31 <flo> not as simple as it seems :(
17:24:34 <flo> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/733 looks OK?
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17:35:47 <clokep_work> flo: Looks OK to me.
17:45:09 <flo> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/734 email for localizers
17:46:34 <flo> anything I forgot to mention there?
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17:50:17 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/88ff717f390e - Florian Quèze - Bug 792 - Need empty text for topics.
17:50:18 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/ab2d37fb5d7b - Florian Quèze - Bug 743 - Larger and more discoverable drop targets for merging buddies into contacts that currently have only one buddy.
17:51:57 <deOmega> Godo stuff  flo  :)
17:53:30 <deOmega> regarding the bubbles theme timestamps by the way.. there are times when  seconds matter to me.. but it is very rare
17:54:54 <flo> hence the tooltip texts
17:54:54 <deOmega> The good news is if i need to see the seconds, i could just copy and paste the entry
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17:55:24 <deOmega> OH .. :).. and that :)
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17:55:42 <deOmega> so much  man
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17:58:13 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 792 to FIXED.
17:58:15 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=792 min, --, 0.3a3, florian, RESO FIXED, Need empty text for topics
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17:58:35 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 743 to FIXED.
17:58:37 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=743 enh, --, 0.3a3, florian, RESO FIXED, Larger and more discoverable drop targets for merging buddies into contacts
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18:01:05 <clokep_work> flo: That email sounds OK.
18:01:14 <flo> already sent anyway ;)
18:01:34 <flo> I'm very late already
18:03:39 <flo> Good evening
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19:43:57 <deOmega> Have a great weekend all.  Taking a much  needed vacation.   Good luck on the launch.
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21:48:33 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 824 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
21:48:35 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=824 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Finetune Aero theme
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