#instantbird log on 05 16 2011

All times are UTC.

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09:14:59 <Mic> hmm, no idea what I did wrong with the invisible status then.. maybe it was more a problem with testing than with the status itself? :S
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09:49:48 <flo> hello :)
09:50:41 <flo> Mic: it's possible there's a bug. I just said that the cause wasn't obvious by code inspection ;)
09:51:43 <Mic> ah, ok. I've got to go though.. I can file a bug later to remember that there might be something hiding
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12:03:46 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 785 filed by duy.nghoang@gmail.com.
12:03:47 <instantbot> duy.nghoang@gmail.com added attachment 621 to bug 785.
12:03:48 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=785 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Close tab option doesn't work properly when using the tab drop down button
12:06:52 <clokep_work> Ah, I had misunderstood your description last time waynenguyen. I haven't tried to reproduce it that way.
12:07:35 <waynenguyen> clokep_work: I see :D
12:07:55 <Mic2> I just confirmed it on Win XP with a current nightly
12:10:51 <clokep_work> Yeah, maybe the click handler is just giving the wrong tab reference.
12:13:53 <flo> aaaah, I misread it too. I didn't even know it was possible to open a context menu for a menuitem...
12:13:59 <waynenguyen> Yeah, because the open in new window option behaves that way too.
12:14:07 <flo> that seems silly, but I guess some people might find this useful (if it works right of course)
12:14:57 <flo> the brokenness of the image in the button you click to open the menu is interesting too
12:16:56 <waynenguyen> flo: Which brokenness? 
12:17:27 <flo> the icon you click to open the all tabs menu. https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/attachment.cgi?id=621
12:17:48 <flo> it should be vertically centered. On your screenshot it's at the top and we see a part of another version of the icon.
12:20:09 <waynenguyen> Ah I see
12:22:29 <flo> bah, it's broken even without clicking it. I see that too on my Win7 VM
12:22:30 <flo> :(
12:23:02 <waynenguyen> It doesn't like that in Mac? :)
12:23:22 <flo> it's very different on Mac of course
12:23:33 <flo> but I tested and fixed it on Windows (XP)...
12:24:32 <Mic2> It looks the same as for waynenguyen for me (on Windows XP!)
12:25:20 <flo> I definitely don't have enough RAM to run XP and 7 at the same time :(
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12:40:02 <flo> Mic2: I can't reproduce on XP
12:43:28 <Mic2> We're talking about this, aren't we? http://imageshack.us/m/215/9141/ibtablistbutton.png
12:43:48 <flo> yes
12:44:38 <Mic2> That's on XP SP3, Luna Silver Theme
12:45:26 <flo> it's possible by debug build isn't updated correctly
12:49:28 <Mic2> I've got the following problem at the moment: I'm using the windowWatcher service to catch opened and closing windows and want to look up the windowType of them
12:49:33 <Mic2> How do I do that? :S
12:49:43 <flo> where are you stuck?
12:49:47 <Mic2> It returns an nsIDOMWindow
12:50:44 <flo> you can try win.document.documentElement.getAttribute("windowtype") where "win" is your nsIDOMWindow
12:54:05 <Mic2> Thanks, this seems to work on closing windows at least. On opening it returns |null|, maybe it's too early when receiving the notification :S
12:55:30 <flo> maybe you can check the URI instead? (if that's acceptable for your usecase)
13:01:25 <clokep_work> Is this for that same extension you were working on last time? (The changing in the aero preview?)
13:01:37 <clokep_work> s/changing/changing status/
13:03:34 <Mic2> clokep_work: yes, I wanted to check how to  watch for windows with a certain windowType (doesn't really apply here as it seems)
13:03:48 <clokep_work> Oh, I see.
13:04:11 <Mic2> I lose the AeroStatus buttons when minimizing to tray, I suspected the window would get destroyed and reopened but this doesn't seem to be the case
13:04:28 <Mic2> I'm not receiving such notifications when minimizing or restoring
13:04:47 <Mic2> Maybe I need to go through mintrayr to see what's going on here :S
13:06:09 <clokep_work> Good luck. ;)
13:06:15 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org added attachment 622 to bug 731.
13:06:17 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=731 nor, --, ---, florian, ASSI, Sounds should work even when the buddy list is closed.
13:06:24 <flo> anybody want to review that patch? :)
13:06:29 <clokep_work> Are you able to see when the preview is shown? Can you rebuild right before it is shown every time.
13:07:21 <flo> Mic2: mintray currently just hides the taskbar entry when the window is minimized, the window is actually closed only on Mac.
13:08:34 <flo> I wish we could actually close it (= the buddy list) on all OSes when it's not visible, to save resources.
13:08:49 <Mic2> clokep_work: no, I only initialize it once, getting the buttons for a certain window and customizing them. That's it..
13:09:03 <clokep_work> flo: That patch is destructive I assume to "messenger.options.playSounds.message" preference, just want to make sure you know that.
13:09:24 <flo> destructive?
13:09:28 <clokep_work> (I.e. if someone already customized that pref, they'll lose the customization.)
13:09:39 <clokep_work> Oops.
13:09:43 <clokep_work> I mean to the "messenger.options.playSounds" pref. :)
13:09:58 <flo> it's "migrated" magically: if they disabled sounds, we keep blist sounds disabled. If they had it enabled, we keep messaging sounds enabled. :-P
13:10:09 <clokep_work> Oh? Where's that happen?
13:10:16 <flo> ahah :)
13:10:30 <flo> the new default value of the preferences ;)
13:10:36 <clokep_work> Oh, that's the defaults, yes. :P
13:10:54 <clokep_work> Yeah, not a big deal. :) Just wanted to bring it up!
13:11:30 <flo> we may upset a few haters with that change. It may be worth relnot'ing it.
13:12:27 <clokep_work> Yes, probably. Not worth confusing the code with checking both prefs IMO.
13:12:49 <clokep_work> Did you work around that issue with the encoding using the browser window not loading about:blank fast enough?
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13:13:26 <flo> not really
13:13:48 <flo> when about:blank is not loaded yet in the browser, the (mac only) code returns the XUL DOM window instead of the HTML one.
13:14:21 <clokep_work> OK. :)
13:14:32 <flo> (= not worse as what we have right now)
13:14:58 <clokep_work> Looks OK to me, but I didn't give it a thorough review.
13:15:05 <clokep_work> The sound stuff is much cleaner though.
13:15:37 <Mic2> Should we have finer categories for the sounds? I remember someone being annoyed by sounds for outgoing messages ("I know when I'm sending a message"). At the moment there's only blist and message as it seems.
13:15:59 <flo> but I don't think that issue is worth worrying about, as it can only happen if some protocols receive messages (or write in conversations for some reasons) before an about:blank page can load (that's only a few (~9 in my testing) event loop spins). So a prpl is extremely unlikely to have time to exchange any data over the network during that time.
13:15:59 <clokep_work> You can replace it w/ a blank file. :-D
13:16:17 <flo> I had the issue during my testing with the JS Test protocol plugin, which doesn't use the network at all.
13:16:55 <flo> Mic2: I think the issue is rather that our current sounds suck.
13:18:16 <flo> you should unconsciously receive the feedback that the message was sent, not hear a sound being played in the speakers.
13:18:27 <Mic2> Ah, ok
13:18:51 <Mic2> Quote of the day, taken from bug 503: "The natural human aspects must be taken into consideration and sounds must
13:18:51 <Mic2> reflect the actions and soothe the ears." ;)
13:18:54 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=503 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Improving Sounds
13:19:50 <flo> and for the incoming messages, studies has shown that hearing a sound before having the visual interruption actually reduces the cognitive load of the interruptions (like if you hear footsteps in the corridor, you are less surprised and interrupted by someone knocking on your door).
13:20:14 <flo> I don't believe our current BEEEP sound achieves this benefit at all.
13:20:27 <clokep_work> It's better than a system beep.
13:20:28 <Mic2> I've read this as  well, I think they're doing it this way on the desktop notifications on Ubuntu..
13:20:40 <clokep_work> Probably be good if someone fades in somehow? And cuts off if the conversation is focused.
13:22:22 <Mic2> I'm not sure I understand?
13:22:29 <flo> I guess I would like to have a good sound designer play with this :).
13:22:38 <Mic2> The sound would stop when the conversation is focused?
13:22:42 <flo> the topic is very bikeshedding prone though :-/.
13:23:38 <clokep_work> Yes, it is.
13:24:05 * clokep_work thinks telephones should learn from this too.
13:30:20 <flo> ebeil:hg.instantbird.org florian$ hg ci -m "Bug 731 - Sounds should work even when the buddy list is closed, be asynchronous, and be controlled by 2 separate preferences for messaging and buddy list events." instantbird/
13:30:30 <flo> oops
13:30:45 <flo> why is the backspace key so close to the return key? :-/
13:32:53 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 731 to FIXED.
13:32:55 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=731 nor, --, 0.3a3, florian, RESO FIXED, Sounds should work even when the buddy list is closed.
13:34:44 <clokep_work> Only one more enhancement to go. :P Then the rest are "bugs".
13:36:09 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/18219ad5caf0 - Florian Quèze - Bug 731 - Sounds should work even when the buddy list is closed, be asynchronous, and be controlled by 2 separate preferences for messaging and buddy list events.
13:36:09 <flo> what's the enhancement?
13:36:54 <flo> it's hard to tell which one you are talking about in https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Roadmap:0.3
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13:38:34 <Mic2> I wonder if it's good to combine a change in the logger with a new feature..
13:39:04 <Mic2> .. I know it's only using the hiddenWindow thing now but it's completely unrelated otherwise
13:39:44 <flo> I guess I could/should have put all the hiddenwindow changes in a separate commit.
13:40:46 <clokep_work> flo: I meant on the bug list, sorry.
13:40:51 <clokep_work> And it's the top of the conversation UI.
13:41:34 <clokep_work> Oh btw my buld never finished yesterday. It hung and I had to kill make.exe. :-/ Any ideas? :-D
13:41:56 <flo> you said it's with Linux that you have had bad experiences? :-P
13:42:39 <clokep_work> Well general user experience wise, yes.
13:45:00 <Mic2> How bad can the user experience be with a color terminal, completion and a command history? scnr
13:45:25 <flo> Mic2: actually, the terminal is more or less the reason why I don't use Linux everyday :-D
13:46:22 <Mic2> I've been playing around with bug 620 recently and I'm not sure how much Glass we should add. It tends to get more difficult to read the more glass there is
13:46:25 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=620 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Maybe Instantbird could look nicer using Glass on Windows Vista and 7
13:46:51 <flo> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=336238 is what I really miss when switching from the macbook to Ubuntu for development work.
13:48:21 <flo> Mic2: I think we will want to use the Instantbird button to get rid of the menubar, and then use glass for the status selector, and maybe the status bar. Probably not for the contact list itself.
13:49:24 <clokep_work> I think I'll try not running it on all my cores, If eel like I remember someone saying something about that.
13:49:43 <clokep_work> And I agree, glass behind the menubar / status selector and behind the tabs of the conversation.
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14:04:27 <clokep_work> Using Mook's way of doing the Instantbird button it's really just an overlay that loads only for certain systems...it should be pretty easy to just put the code into the tree as long as it works OK.
14:06:21 <clokep_work> Actually it's not an overlay, it's just a CSS document that gets added.
14:26:12 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/9e6ff75a97bc - Florian Quèze - [Mac] Dragging the tab strip should move the conversation window.
14:26:13 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/7f1f36534832 - Florian Quèze - Follow-up to bug 334, correctly reapply the empty text when no display name has been entered.
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14:42:15 <Mic2> bye
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14:47:56 <flo> Good evening :)
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15:39:21 <clokep_work> So the reply I sent was sent ONLY to the mailing list by mistake. I resent it directly to him in case he isn't on the mailing list. Kind of confusing how we have it ste up. :-/
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16:51:55 <DGMurdockIII> hey will anmatited icon work with instantbird
16:52:34 <DGMurdockIII> animated *
16:52:38 <clokep_work> DGMurdockIII: If the file type is supported...maybe. :)
16:52:46 <clokep_work> I don't see why not if it doesn't need to be converted.
16:52:51 <clokep_work> If it needs to be converted...I'm not sure.
16:52:58 <clokep_work> Try it and let us know?! :-D
16:53:22 <DGMurdockIII> i'll se if i can try
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16:55:42 <DGMurdockIII> when i have the icon set i will only see ii by hovering over the person name to see it right
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17:00:45 <DGMurdockIII> 2(clokep_work2): it work when you add it you can see the animation but if you try to view the icon on a buddy you dont see the anmation
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17:01:10 <DGMurdockIII> hi
17:37:23 <DGMurdockIII> Error: Unable to open buddy icon from dgmurdockiii@hrtc.net!
17:37:23 <DGMurdockIII> Source File: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/raw-file/669cbabc7507/purple/libpurple/protocols/msn/user.c
17:37:23 <DGMurdockIII> Line: 343
17:37:23 <DGMurdockIII> Source Code:
17:37:24 <DGMurdockIII> msn: msn_user_set_buddy_icon
17:54:08 <clokep_work> DGMurdockIII: Oh the tooltip doesn't animate it? Interesting.
17:55:03 <DGMurdockIII> nope
17:56:26 <DGMurdockIII> 2(clokep_work2): if you would like to add me you can see for youself DGMurdockIII on AIM or dgmurdockiii@hrtc.net on msn and yahoo messanger
17:57:09 <clokep_work> I'm not on Instantbird right now, so I can't check, sorry. :(
17:57:31 <DGMurdockIII> 2(clokep_work2): ok
17:58:00 <DGMurdockIII> and it show a black bacround on the icon
17:58:58 <clokep_work> I had that happen to me because I grabbed a png with a clear background...and the alpha channel is incompatible w/ networks that don't support png (/ gif?) so it gets made black...not ideal. :(
18:01:10 <clokep_work> Any idea what a better thing we could do in this situation is?
18:01:19 <clokep_work> II feel like it should at least be a white background and not a black one. :-/
18:01:54 <DGMurdockIII> yeah
18:02:17 <DGMurdockIII> here is the icon im using http://www.badassbuddy.com/Badass_Buddy_Icons/Firefox_Buddy_Icon/?se=1
18:02:39 <DGMurdockIII> i just used it for a test
18:03:02 <clokep_work> I used the Instantbird icon from lxr to test. :)
18:04:43 <DGMurdockIII> link
18:06:57 <clokep_work> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/branding/release/mozicon128.png
18:08:04 <clokep_work> Well it's actually: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/branding/release/mozicon128.png?raw=1
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18:14:58 <DGMurdockIII> but is it animated
18:16:43 <clokep_work> Oh, no.
18:16:47 <clokep_work> It just has a transparent background.
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18:22:21 <DGMurdockIII> hey mic
18:22:35 <Mic> Hello DGMurdockIII
18:22:51 <DGMurdockIII> how have you been
18:23:18 <DGMurdockIII> been a while
18:23:25 <Mic> I'm fine thanks, and you?
18:23:59 <DGMurdockIII> same just testing out the new icon feature
18:24:54 <Mic> It's nice, I really like it! :)
18:26:18 <DGMurdockIII> it works when adding them but when looking at them in the tooltip there a black backround behind the icons
18:28:21 <clokep_work> DGMurdockIII: Only if you add an icon with transparency!
18:28:22 <Mic> hmm, maybe this happens when a gif or png with transparency is converted to jpeg, which doesn't support it
18:28:50 <DGMurdockIII> and also you cant see the animation from animated icons in the tooltip
18:28:53 <clokep_work> Mic: I'm 90% sure that's what happens.
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18:29:19 <DGMurdockIII> (%clokep_work) I had that happen to me because I grabbed a png with a clear background...and the alpha channel is incompatible w/ networks that don't support png (/ gif?) so it gets made black...not ideal. :(
18:29:27 <Mic> jpegs don't support animations either
18:29:37 <DGMurdockIII> gif do
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18:29:50 <Mic> Or with a bit of luck you can get animated png's working somehow
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18:30:26 <Mic> Even though there's a filesize limit for buddy icons  on many networks as it seems .. I guess you're likely to hit it with animated icons
18:30:56 <DGMurdockIII> 2(Mic2): add this icon as you icon http://www.badassbuddy.com/Badass_Buddy_Icons/Firefox_Buddy_Icon/?se=1
18:30:56 <DGMurdockIII> 2(micahg2): add this icon as you icon http://www.badassbuddy.com/Badass_Buddy_Icons/Firefox_Buddy_Icon/?se=1
18:31:24 <Mic> I'm not on a recent enough nightly at the moment, I'll try later maybe
18:31:41 <clokep_work> Mic: I don't think PNG does animation?
18:31:48 <clokep_work> Or there's a variety of incompatible formats that don't work.
18:32:10 * clokep_work knows Mozilla doesn't support MNG. :)
18:32:12 <Mic> Oh, there's Mozillas unofficial aPNG format .. which should work .. for us :P
18:32:47 <clokep_work> Hah!
18:33:04 * clokep_work highly highly doubts anything else would understand it.
18:33:24 <Mic> Try this on your Firefox: chrome://global/skin/media/throbber.png
18:33:55 <DGMurdockIII> we shold have a page on wiki for what each im network and there pefacation like what they support for icon and stuff so it easy to go back to it and look at it
18:34:20 <clokep_work> Mic: Aha, I didn' tknow that was a png. :)
18:34:39 <clokep_work> DGMurdockIII: Yes, we should. Pidgin has it in their FAQ but it's confusing. Should just be a table.
18:34:43 <clokep_work> I'll make one. . .
18:34:52 <clokep_work> If you give me a good name for it. :)
18:34:57 <clokep_work> "Buddy icon file format support"?
18:35:15 <DGMurdockIII> i thnk it shold be more than just that
18:35:30 <clokep_work> What else would it include?
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18:36:03 <DGMurdockIII> like what features they support
18:36:56 <clokep_work> Oh...hmm...yes...could do that I suppose.
18:37:16 <Mic> good luck
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18:37:20 <clokep_work> "Protocol features support"
18:37:29 * clokep_work is sure this is somewhere on Wikipedia. ;)
18:37:30 <DGMurdockIII> and list how there URI scheme seach works
18:37:49 <clokep_work> I Have that all in a file somwhere.
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18:54:42 <clokep_work> DGMurdockIII: https://wiki.instantbird.org/Protocol_features_support
19:00:04 <DGMurdockIII> ok
19:01:39 <DGMurdockIII> http://www.ycoderscookbook.com/
19:05:48 <clokep_work> What's that link?
19:05:57 <clokep_work> I copied them out of the libpurple source code btw. And just updated it w/ a whole lot more.
19:06:37 <DGMurdockIII> http://developer.pidgin.im/raw-attachment/wiki/ThirdPartySmileyThemes/yahoo_10.zip
19:07:02 <DGMurdockIII> Yahoo! Coder’s Cookbook (YCC) where you can find all things relating to Yahoo! Messenger. This site is dedicated to professional explanations and discussions revolving around Yahoo! Messenger and the protocols that drive it
19:07:12 <clokep_work> But why are you sending it to me?
19:07:29 <clokep_work> Add the info to the wiki if it's there. :P
19:07:43 <DGMurdockIII> the Protocol_features_support need yahoo
19:08:02 <DGMurdockIII> nvm
19:08:49 <DGMurdockIII> sorry did not see you updated the page
19:08:58 <clokep_work> Yeah, I sent the link before I finished. Sorry.
19:09:05 <DGMurdockIII> that ok
19:09:30 <DGMurdockIII> also could you put if they support anmated icons
19:10:56 <clokep_work> I don't know if they do or not.
19:11:05 <clokep_work> I would assume if they support gif they do?
19:12:21 <DGMurdockIII> ok
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19:16:12 <clokep_work> Not really sure what else would go on there besides buddy icons?
19:16:23 <clokep_work> Maybe formatting, but Instantbird doesn't support any outgoing formatting yet. :P
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19:21:58 <DGMurdockIII> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahoo!_Messenger#URI_scheme
19:26:33 <DGMurdockIII> 2(clokep_work2): what Protocol is Null
19:30:53 <clokep_work> It's the internal libpurple protocol that doesn't do anything. ;) Hence, null.
19:37:54 <clokep_work> So not really necessary to put on there, but I did anyway...
19:40:52 <DGMurdockIII> I just had a friend on google talk that was using pidgin see if he could see my icon and he could see the anmated one but it was just static
19:41:00 <DGMurdockIII> for him
19:41:32 <clokep_work> Yeah I'm not sure how many programs have support for animated icons. The really old AIM did I know.
19:41:34 <DGMurdockIII> I see it in the icon box as a anmated gif icon like the icon supposted to be
19:41:50 <DGMurdockIII> i now pidgin dose
19:43:28 <clokep_work> It's possible it got converted to a different format before upload? I haven't checked flo's code to know how that works.
19:46:30 <DGMurdockIII> ok
19:49:21 <clokep_work> Wait...you said a Google Talk buddy?
19:49:34 <clokep_work> Google Talk only suports png, which doesn't support animation.
19:49:38 <clokep_work> DGMurdockIII: ^ ^
19:49:43 <clokep_work> So...it most likely wouldn't wokr.
19:50:04 <DGMurdockIII> he could see my icon
19:50:28 <clokep_work> Right, it gets converted to a PNG and only the first frame is used.
19:50:37 <clokep_work> That's what happens when you convert animated gifs to non-animated images.
19:52:10 <DGMurdockIII> Google Talk uses an older version of what would later become the Jingle proto
19:54:03 <clokep_work> Google Talk uses XMPP with the jingle extension, but is actually incompatible w/ Jingle, yes. Idk if that means it supports more icons though.
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19:57:56 <clokep_work> Apparently XMPP you HAVE to give png, but can also give other things: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0084.html#proto-meta
20:01:44 <DGMurdockIII> myspace im is supported in instantbird
20:01:59 <clokep_work> Yes, but the buddy icon isn't.
20:08:43 <DGMurdockIII> oh ok
20:09:01 <DGMurdockIII> i'll be back later
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21:47:17 <flo> the play is over :). I'm tired!
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21:54:13 <flo> for what is worth, I would expect animated PNG to be transmitted over XMPP but not be animated when shown in Instantbird.
21:54:29 <flo> I don't think MSN supports any image format that supports animated icon
21:55:40 <flo> AIM/ICQ support gif. I believe if you use as your icon an animated gif file that otherwise matches the AIM spec (at most 50*50px and 7kB) and so doesn't need to be converted, it would stay animated and be animated in the tooltips.
21:56:10 <flo> I would not recommend using animated icons (because it's disturbing for the other users) but I think it can work.
21:57:18 <flo> er, I meant 64*64 when I said 50*50 above
21:58:13 <flo> http://img.badassbuddy.com/buddies/96x96/badassbuddy_com-firefox.gif can't work on AIM because it weights almost 15kB and AIM limits to 7kB.
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22:33:21 <flo> Good night! :)
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