#instantbird log on 04 04 2011

All times are UTC.

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00:26:53 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com added attachment 576 to bug 507.
00:26:55 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=507 enh, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Implement IRC in JavaScript
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01:29:15 <bumpaw> I have a couple of emoticon themes enabled, but can't view them as a toolbar.
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01:31:42 <bumpaw> Am using Stratini Instant theme and also have MSN-Smileys available but not visible.
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01:34:44 <bumpaw> I'm guessing that you have to manually type the text codes in like (z) and :(
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01:46:15 <clokep> bumpaw: Yes, you have to manually type them in, we don't have a toolbar for inputting things into the textbox yet. (Regardless of whether it's a custom smiley theme or not.)
01:47:02 <bumpaw> clokep:  OK thanks! Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.:)
01:47:21 <clokep> You're welcome.
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09:56:35 <Mic> Good day
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10:12:12 <flo> Mic: it should be proposed automatically only during the first run. It should be possible later from a menu, if the user is actually looking for that feature
10:12:58 <Mic> Ah :)
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11:00:08 <Mic> Might sound silly but how do I open a window with a certain chrome url from a bootstrapped addon?
11:02:54 <flo> Mic: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/modules/imWindows.jsm#160
11:04:23 <Mic> Ah, thanks, this works :)
11:11:09 <Mic> bye
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11:42:39 <ChrisThomas> Hey
11:43:00 <ChrisThomas> I wanted to discuss something about facebook chat
11:43:04 <ChrisThomas> Anyone?
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13:20:19 <waynenguyen> flo: will the import wizard need to prompt for password from the user? I think it needs to right?
13:20:41 <waynenguyen> except for the Pidgin case.
13:21:30 <clokep_work> Depending how stuff is encrypted, etc. it could need to. :-/ (Or in those cases you could just import the account and let it prompt for a password on connect?)
13:23:31 <waynenguyen> Yeah that's what I thought. How about the Pidgin accounts? Because we can get the password from it.
13:24:23 <clokep_work> Than we should import it I think.
13:24:42 <clokep_work> (Also, don't forget the passwords don't have to be there. :))
13:25:44 <waynenguyen> Thank you clokep_work
13:28:08 <clokep_work> How difficult has it been to find settings for otehr programs?
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13:31:02 <waynenguyen> As for now, I am able to find the all the accounts for Google Talk , Yahoo, and Pidgin (which has the password). I am moving to MSN :)
13:31:05 <flo> waynenguyen: the importer should try to get all the passwords that are stored on the system
13:31:23 <flo> if the user wasn't prompted on each connect for a password, it shouldn't be prompted for a password by instantbird
13:32:43 <waynenguyen> I see, thansk flo.
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15:08:53 <flo> Mic: do you still have some code around for bug 343?
15:08:56 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=343 enh, --, ---, benediktp, ASSI, Sort buddies alphabetically
15:19:45 <jdt> Hi flo, I want to ask some question about "indexed logs" idea for GSoC. As Thunderbird allows user to turn Gloda on/off, should Instantbird does the same thing?
15:20:45 <jdt> I am also not sure if Instantbird has any support for compression or I should import another library?
15:26:14 <clokep_work> jdt: I don't know much about the indexed logs stuff, but what are you attempting to compress?
15:27:37 <jdt> flo suggests me to look for Firefox sync and compression of data. He wants to save disk space and bandwidth
15:29:30 <clokep_work> So you're just trying to compress a file?
15:31:06 <jdt> maybe one or two database files.
15:31:48 <clokep_work> Hmm...I know there's zipping functionality, but Idk if that's what you're really after ot no.
15:31:53 <clokep_work> "after or not"
15:34:06 <jdt> It is Instantbird's functionality or OS's. I think that what I need.
15:34:44 <jdt> "Is it Instantbird's functionality or OS's ?"
15:35:44 <clokep_work> It's built into xulrunner.
15:36:00 <clokep_work> nsIZipReader or something is what I'm talking about, but again Idk if that's applicable.
15:36:05 <clokep_work> Check MDC.
15:36:32 <jdt> thanks a lot!
15:37:15 <clokep_work> Do database files zip well? I've never tried. :)
15:39:00 <jdt> I also don't know :)
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16:52:43 <Mic> flo: most likely not. I really should start attaching WIPs to bugs,  no matter in which state they are
16:54:47 <Mic> My computer broke a while ago and I haven't attempted recovering anything yet..
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18:57:46 <flo> Mic: :(
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18:58:37 <flo> clokep_work: I think it would make more sense to zip the already-indexed and stored in a blob, but not yet sync'ed conversations. Not the database file.
18:59:00 <flo> that was for jdt too of course, but he doesn't seem to be here anymore
19:01:31 <clokep_work> flo: Probably. As I said I don't really have a feel for how to go about doing the indexed logs in general so...I'm really not much help even for ideas. :-D
19:04:13 <flo> Last time I really thought about it, my "best idea" (which may turn out as not actually usable when trying to implement it) is to remove the system messages from conversations, so that no new thing appear in a conversation when people are not actually talking.
19:04:13 <flo> Store the messages of ongoing conversations in a table.
19:04:13 <flo> Store all the events in another table (so that we can reinsert the system messages when displaying a conversation again from the logs).
19:04:13 <flo> When a conversation is closed (explicitly, or by a few minutes without any message, or a day change in MUCs), create a blob with it. Index it. Zip it. Store the resulting smaller blob in a tab of archived conversations, and sync the content of that table.
19:04:42 <flo> s/a tab/a table/
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19:30:02 <clokep_work> That seems really complicated. :(
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19:43:51 <jdt> Hi ,flo. I may misunderstand your idea. However, after I read MDC about Gloda, I found out something. Gloda is not a data store, it is an index and it can recompute everything from the .msf files and the actual message body (using mbox format)
19:44:10 <flo> clokep_work: is it more complicated that the problem is, or is it just the problem that is complicated? Is what I said enough to understand or is it confusing?
19:44:23 <jdt> so we do not need to zip the index
19:44:48 <flo> jdt: if you haven't read the log of what I said in the last hour, please do :)
19:45:08 <jdt> I did :)
19:46:18 <flo> jdt: Gloda would be used only for the " Index it." part of what I described. (of course I described only how the data would be stored, not how they would be searched :))
19:46:59 <flo> if I recall how Gloda works correctly, the index would be a separate SQL table, that we would use for fast search, but not sync.
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19:48:53 <jdt> yes. It's true. My plan is to store messages in mbox format like most email clients do. and use Gloda to index it. and Gloda will not be synced but recomputed when needed.
19:49:31 <jdt> Last time I thought that the conservations should be store in another database :(
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19:51:22 <flo> why the mbox format?
19:51:39 <clokep_work> mbox == bad
19:51:58 <clokep_work> Thunderbird wants to switch away from it, for reference.
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19:52:25 <jdt> oh, really?
19:53:34 <jdt> SO you want to use SQLite to store all the messagges?
19:53:41 <flo> jdt: so why would you store in mbox format?
19:54:28 <jdt> while doing research, I found out that Thunderbird use it
19:54:51 <jdt> I thought it's good :p
19:55:46 <clokep_work> mbox has a lot of issues, you can read the wikipedia article on it for some: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mbox
19:57:58 <flo> jdt: it's a format designed for emails, isn't it? :-P
19:58:49 <jdt> yes, it is. But I think that it's simple enough to use for IM
19:59:55 <flo> clokep_work: do you know if the Thunderbird folks have wrote some documents on the wiki about their plans to replace it?
20:01:03 <clokep_work> flo: They're working on a "pluggable message store" right now so multiple implementations could be used.
20:01:11 <clokep_work> And the one they're prototyping it with is maildir.
20:01:17 <clokep_work> Give me a minute.
20:01:39 <clokep_work> flo: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Pluggable_Mail_Stores
20:02:47 <clokep_work> flo: pluggable interfaces: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=402392 and maildir: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58308
20:03:20 <clokep_work> There's a user repo with the code I think?
20:03:42 <clokep_work> But probably not helpful for us. :)
20:06:11 <clokep_work> Ah, yeah there is one: http://hg.mozilla.org/users/bienvenu_nventure.com/plugstore/ if someone is interested. :)
20:06:47 <clokep_work> Although if we're indexing stuff, etc...it might make more sense to just throw it all into a big file and compress the file instead of also putting blobs into a database?
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20:12:43 <flo> clokep_work: the idea with the blob is that it's the atomic encryptable and compressable unit for sync'ing ;)
20:13:41 <clokep_work> Oh, right. For syncing you'd want it that way...but...wouldn't you have to resync the whole database file everytime stuff changes?
20:13:58 <clokep_work> ("sync" as in if it's stored on multiple computers)
20:14:38 <flo> you would transfer the list of blob ids, and then get all the ones you don't have locally. Or only the recent ones (depending on disk space preferences maybe)
20:14:50 <clokep_work> Ah, OK. :)
20:15:04 <clokep_work> I was thinking more of a webdav type sync.
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20:15:33 <flo> I'm not sure if sync supports doing it this way, but I suspect it does, as it would be nonsense to transfer the whole Firefox history at each synchronization
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20:18:54 <clokep_work> It probably does. Mic would most likely know.
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20:31:43 <flo> clokep_work: thanks for the info about the Thunderbird pluggable message store.
20:32:03 <clokep_work> flo: No problem! Is it useful to us at all? ;)
20:32:08 <flo> the requirements in the proposal on the wiki look like something close to what we would need
20:32:29 <jdt> I think I get the idea now :) But I still have one question. Is synchronization of log inside the scope of GSoC project? same question for importing/exporting logs.
20:32:44 <flo> but then, the things about not breaking the world, keeping the same URL formats for messages, etc... make me think it's likely to be very thunderbird-specific :(
20:33:15 <flo> jdt: exporting is trivial.
20:33:24 <jdt> The requirement is only "keep in mind when working"
20:33:31 <jdt> :)
20:34:20 <flo> for synchronization and importing, "yes and no". It's important to show that the new storage system will work well for these cases, but completing it is probably too much work for an 8 weeks project.
20:35:28 <flo> jdt: the real requirement is to ensure the mentor believes the student took the project seriously and worked correctly on it ;).
20:36:39 <flo> jdt: oh by the way, when I said "the requirements in the proposal on the wiki look like something close to what we would need", I was talking about https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Pluggable_Mail_Stores, not GSoC ;)
20:38:05 <jdt> ok, so what we will use? blobs in database for maildir?
20:38:53 <jdt> or maildir?
20:40:05 <clokep_work> jdt: flo means the theoretical requirements in there, not the technical requirements (correct me if I'm wrong).
20:40:33 <flo> /me is completely confused
20:41:18 * clokep_work is going home. ;)
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20:42:03 <jdt> how to make the *** thing :p
20:43:28 <flo> time for me to go too!
20:43:47 <flo> Good night! :)
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20:44:02 <jdt> good night!
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22:39:20 <clokep> Hmm...anyone else on Win 7 w/ the latest nightly?
22:40:46 <clokep> The expand/collapse icons are funky.
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