#instantbird log on 03 09 2011

All times are UTC.

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03:20:48 <clokep> If anyone wants to read about all the junk I've been dealing w/ thinking about the IRC specs: http://clokep.blogspot.com/2011/03/so-called-irc-specifications.html
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05:59:58 <Mook> clokep: yeah, it's the same code, just poked at more, IIRC. and yes, that's _old_. roughly speaking, just before instantbird ;)
06:01:52 <Mook> clokep: also: Silver's back recently; might be interesting to have a chat with him (over in #chatzilla) about how everybody hates the "specs" that is IRC ;)
06:04:16 * Mook still feels weird using IRC as an asynchronous public messaging system
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09:04:28 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 726 filed by raynaudquentin@gmail.com.
09:04:29 <instantbot> raynaudquentin@gmail.com added attachment 555 to bug 726.
09:04:30 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=726 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Invisible contacts in the "new" buddy list
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09:19:44 <Mic> hello
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09:27:30 <Even> hello :)
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10:12:57 <flo> Hello :)
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10:18:34 <Mic> hello
10:19:11 <Mic> How's everything going? I couldn't follow the logs closely lately
10:23:27 <flo> you probably wanted to see http://queze.net/goinfre/update-pings-2011-03-07.png then :)
10:25:03 <flo> also http://queze.net/goinfre/update-pings-and-downloads-count.png (in blue is the same thing: update pings. Since the 0.2 release). In red the downloads. We had about 35,000 downloads since the 0.2 release.
10:26:52 <flo> summary: our user base keeps growing slowly, but our retention rate (people who become active daily users after a download) is low (around 2% if my calculation is correct. For comparison, Firefox in 2007-2008 had about 25%).
10:35:08 <Mic> Thanks :)
10:35:32 <Mic> Two percent actually keeping it.. that's not much :(
10:35:47 <flo> we don't know how many actually start it at all
10:35:57 <flo> for Firefox only about 50% of the downloads lead to someone starting it
10:36:11 <Mic> What a waste of traffic
10:38:51 <flo> I've been wondering yesterday how we can know what cause people to not keep it
10:52:31 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 727 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
10:52:51 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Provide an easy way to send feedback
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11:14:33 <Mic1> *test*
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11:16:56 <Mic2> The webpage for the bug report you filed opened in the conversation view
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11:17:24 <flo> any idea of why?
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11:18:38 <clokep> Anything in the error console?
11:19:09 <clokep> I just got a "this.buddies[name] is undefined" error. :-/
11:19:34 <Mic2> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/588
11:19:54 <flo> clokep: it's not a rare error ;)
11:20:10 <clokep> Isn't it bad? :P
11:22:31 <flo> clokep: it happens when for some reason some code of the conversation tries to get the color of a nick before that nick is added to the displayed nick list
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11:23:08 <flo> Mic's error looks serious though
11:23:18 <flo> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content/convbrowser.xml#803
11:23:45 <flo> it seems we should call event.preventDefault/stopPropagation *before* the loadUrl call which apparently can throw
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11:24:49 <Mic> I'm getting this problem everytime I click a link now
11:24:59 <Mic> Can anyone try it too?
11:25:06 <flo> Mic: no
11:25:07 <Mic> I'm on Windows 7 at the moment
11:25:12 <flo> but I can fix it for the next nightly if you want
11:25:25 <flo> I just said:
11:25:26 <flo> 12:23:13 - flo: Mic's error looks serious though
11:25:26 <flo> 12:23:23 - flo: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content/convbrowser.xml#803
11:25:26 <flo> 12:23:50 - flo: it seems we should call event.preventDefault/stopPropagation *before* the loadUrl call which apparently can throw
11:26:05 <Mic> Do you need a bug report for that?
11:26:07 <flo> Mic: I suspect there's something messed up in your system's default browser selection.
11:26:26 <Mic> Ah, let me try something
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11:27:50 <flo> Mic: If we agree http://pastebin.instantbird.com/589 is the right fix, I can just push it without a bug.
11:28:58 <clokep> Hmm....according to the Pidgin mailing list Google SoC is interested in more first time organizations? ;)
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11:29:29 <flo> clokep: I read that too
11:29:51 <Mic> I can't open urls from the start /run menu either (which works fine on another user), so something is indeed broken there
11:30:07 <Mic> Brought up a real bug though ;)
11:30:16 <flo> if the fix looks right I'll push it today
11:31:20 <flo> clokep: I received a mostly positve reply for my request to do SoC as part of Mozilla though
11:32:02 <flo> The reply said they would be happy to have us hoin GSoC as part of Mozilla for projects which have a certain level of "reusability" in other Mozilla communication projects.
11:32:38 <flo> so JS protocols and Account import would fit the criteria, but not Android Instantbird or Sync for Instantbird.
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11:33:31 <Mic> flo: I will have a look later, I need to go for a while
11:34:15 <flo> I was wondering if I should send a similar request to Pidgin developers, but for different projects (I know they accepted several projects creating new UIs above libpurple in the past, so maybe they would like the Instantbird for Android idea)
11:36:51 <clokep> Possibly.
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11:37:23 <clokep> Mozilla might accept something like System Tray support then, as long as it ould be chceked into toolkit. ;)
11:37:30 * clokep isn't receiving messages again. :-/
11:38:07 <flo> do you have a server with a reliable connection that you can tunnel your IRC connection into?
11:41:27 <clokep> No, I'm directly connect to the internet.
11:41:33 <clokep> Seems to only happen when I SSL. :-/
11:41:44 <clokep> Wish I knew why though. (Outgoing seems fine. :P)
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11:47:18 * clokep will be back soon.
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12:46:21 <clokep_work> Hello. :)
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14:02:57 <clokep_work> This would be kind of awesome to support for commands: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nettalk.png
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14:50:35 <clokep_work> #ChatZilla never seems too interested in talking. :P
15:09:43 <flo> clokep_work: if we get a SoC student for a JS protocol, would you like to mentor it?
15:11:26 <clokep_work> Yes, although I'd have to fall back on you sometimes.
15:11:38 <flo> ok :)
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15:18:49 <clokep_work> So Skype having big banner ads in it makes me think they wouldn't like other programs having direct access to the protocol. :-/
15:19:22 <flo> if they make the user experience crappy, users will switch :)
15:20:31 * flo wonders if the "Voice and video" project fits the mozilla reusability criteria
15:21:35 <flo> I guess playing with the microphone, the webcam and audio/video codecs is reusable in any communication application
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15:43:14 <clokep_work> Yeah, actually it's just one banner ad on the "Home Screen" o rsomtehing, which I don't even view, so that's OK w/ me. ;)
15:43:24 <clokep_work> "Voice and Video" is pretty general. :)
15:43:50 <flo> not like digsby who put it "in the conversation window because they care about not cluttering the buddy list"? ;)
15:44:31 <flo> clokep_work: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Community:SummerOfCode11:Brainstorming#Instantbird
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15:47:00 <clokep_work> flo: Account import could also import from Thunderbird / OS address books?
15:47:41 <flo> you mean detect if Thunderbird knows a gmail address and its password?
15:48:21 <clokep_work> I meant from the address book, there's a field for instant messaging names...but I guess we wouldn't know which account to connect to that from. :-D
15:48:53 <flo> Isn't syncing the address book part of the Sync project? :-D
15:49:08 <clokep_work> Yes, I guess that makes more sense. :)
15:49:20 <clokep_work> Idk about detecting gmail accounts, that wouldn't make sense I don't think.
15:49:44 <clokep_work> For JS protos, should we add a comment that Twitter / IRC have already been implemented.
15:49:48 <flo> "hey, your email address is a gmail one, go chat with it! :P" :)
15:50:08 <flo> hmm. Feel free to add that :).
15:50:33 <flo> But if a student says he want to implement IRC or twitter... it means he hasn't read our blog, so probably doesn't care much about the project anyway
15:53:06 <clokep_work> It should be easy to "store and sync" logs on the remote server, not just store them?
15:54:00 <clokep_work> Eh whatever, it's fine. :)
15:54:29 <flo> yes. Feel free to edit if you want. The title is "easily search-able and sync-able storage" so I guess some interested student will guess :)
15:57:42 <clokep_work> Not many random submitted ideas. :-X
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16:03:14 <clokep_work> See the Unified Communications add-on SoC idea on there? ;)
16:03:29 <flo> I'm not sure of what that's supposed to be
16:03:39 <clokep_work> Me neither.
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16:11:07 <clokep_work> I uploaded my implementation of a socket now, but It's kind of MPL? I have to see if Ir eally used any code from him or not. :-X
16:13:12 <flo> do you know which parts are MPL?
16:14:54 <clokep_work> Most of the actual code is tri-licensed (CZ originally which was relicensed to tri, and a lot of it was rewritten be me as well), but the object concept is definitely from the MPL'd file.
16:15:23 <flo> email the author maybe? :)
16:15:32 <clokep_work> For the diff: http://hg.instantbird.org/experiments/diff/d4326febed80/modules/mozSocket.jsm
16:15:35 <clokep_work> I did a couple days ago. :)
16:15:46 <flo> and no reply?
16:15:47 <flo> :-S
16:16:00 <clokep_work> Not yet.
16:21:56 <clokep_work> Is the :-S for the diff or the email?
16:23:43 <flo> the "a couple days ago" ;)
16:24:52 <clokep_work> It wasn't last night, but the night before right before I went to bed.
16:24:58 <clokep_work> Idk what timezone he's in, etc.
16:25:32 <clokep_work> Firebot told me he was last seen 49 weeks ago. :-X
16:42:38 <clokep_work> Atlhough who knows if that's a "real" email address he has there too. :-/
16:43:43 <flo> maybe google the real name?
16:43:51 <flo> or add him as friend on facebook? :-D
16:45:19 <clokep_work> :P Googling his handle first.
17:00:12 <clokep_work> Well he made a slashdot post yesterday. So he's alive. ;)
17:00:40 <flo> ahah :)
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17:01:27 * flo pushed the fix for Mic's bug
17:02:10 <flo> Good evening :)
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17:02:54 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/a10138b04637 - Florian Quèze - Avoid loading external links inside the conversation when the external browser is misconfigured.
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20:25:52 <clokep_work> flo: Why is bug 39 assigned to you? It sounds more like a WONTFIX to me?
20:25:55 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39 enh, P5, ---, florian, UNCO, Extending XMPP (transport, service discovery) support via additional software.
20:26:36 <flo> I was the default assignee for "Instantbird (UI)" and "purplexpcom" before I created the nobody account.
20:26:50 * clokep_work doesn't know what to reply on bug 685. :( "Do it yourself if you want it?" :P
20:26:54 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=685 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add Google Talk (XMPP) to SMS transports
20:27:37 <flo> so, assigned to me without the "ASSIGNED" status is not really assigned
20:27:48 <flo> clokep_work: https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=@florian
20:28:19 <flo> isn't bug 39 "implement XMPP in JS" (+ a big troll sitting in there :-D)? :)
20:28:23 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39 enh, P5, ---, florian, UNCO, Extending XMPP (transport, service discovery) support via additional software.
20:28:59 <flo> clokep_work: do you need to reply anything at all in that bug?
20:29:59 <clokep_work> Yes, I think #39 is that. (I'll walk away slowly.)
20:30:06 <clokep_work> Nah, I guess not. I can just let it rot. :-D
20:30:40 <clokep_work> I think bug 61 depends on bug 102. ;)
20:30:43 <flo> we can file a clean bug and mark the troll as duplicate once ready :)
20:30:44 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61 nor, --, ---, florian, UNCO, Sametime: buddy list not loaded fully after connect
20:30:45 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102 maj, --, ---, florian, NEW, Sametime protocol support is lost.
20:31:00 <flo> can we make a meta "who cares?" bug? ;)
20:33:01 <clokep_work> Please. :) I'm gonna unassign all those bugs then.
20:33:06 <clokep_work> (And get rid of the priority?)
20:33:49 <flo> they have a priority too?
20:33:57 <clokep_work> Some have a P5 priority.
20:34:06 <clokep_work> (All really old ones.)
20:34:09 <flo> bah... have we ever used the priority field in any way?
20:34:24 <flo> I just mass changed them to unassign me :(
20:34:34 <flo> I should have changed that in the same bugspamail :-S
20:35:56 <clokep_work> It's fine. ;) And I don't think we ever have used it.
20:36:04 <clokep_work> We don't even use blocking flags AFAIK. :P
20:36:39 <flo> are there still active (requestable) blocking flags?
20:36:47 <clokep_work> I don't think so.
20:39:10 <Mathnerd314> I count 307 bugs... how many LOC is Instantbird?
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20:39:30 <clokep_work> "LOC"?
20:39:42 <Mathnerd314> lines of code
20:39:53 <clokep_work> There's 347 bugs open.
20:40:02 <clokep_work> Mostly enhancements. :)
20:40:41 <flo> oh man, why am I looking again in libpurple's blist.c :(
20:41:00 <flo> each time I see how many "remove" calls there are in functions named "*_add_*" I feel sick :-S
20:41:05 <Mathnerd314> clokep_work: right, I forgot to include unconfirmed bugs
20:41:37 <flo> Mathnerd314: are you trying to calculate a bug count per line of code? :-D
20:41:47 <Mathnerd314> yeah...
20:42:13 <flo> is it better to have more or less bugs per LOC? :)
20:42:23 <Mathnerd314> less, I think
20:42:46 <flo> if we have less, it means we have huge amouts of code doing nothing useful (so causing no bug) :)
20:43:14 <flo> if we have more, it means we have an active community of bug reporters :)
20:43:19 <clokep_work> There's also a variety of ways to calculate a line of code, no?
20:43:25 <DGMurdockIII> is mic MIA
20:43:31 <clokep_work> (comments, white space, whether { } count.)
20:43:45 <clokep_work> Mic has been pretty busy I think? But he reads the logs when he can?
20:43:47 <Mathnerd314> clokep_work: bytes
20:44:35 <flo> MIA means?
20:44:58 <DGMurdockIII> missing in action
20:45:25 <clokep_work> Bytes? Haha. :) 1/3rd of that is probably the MPL license then. ;)
20:45:27 <flo> DGMurdockIII: ok. No, he reported an useful bug this morning ;)
20:45:55 <DGMurdockIII> k
20:46:15 <flo> well, the bug wasn't useful. The report was. :)
20:46:19 <Mathnerd314> clokep_work: it's just out of curiosity
20:47:09 <flo> Mathnerd314: you can try to calculate it if you like :)
20:47:27 <flo> it's probably relatively easy with find and wc
20:47:41 <clokep_work> Yeah, I'd be curious (especially if you have something to compare to?), was just making a (bad) joke.
20:49:41 <DGMurdockIII> i like the new comic bubble when i click or hover over someone on the buddy list
20:49:41 <Mathnerd314> flo: close https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=27 ?
20:49:44 <instantbot> Bug 27 maj, P5, ---, nobody, UNCO, Error loading purplexpcom with SELinux
20:49:45 <clokep_work> I'm sure that someone has a script to do it. :P
20:56:42 <flo> $ (find instantbird/ purple/ -name '*.js' -o -name '*.jsm' -o -name '*.xml' -o -name '*.xul' -o -name '*.manifest' -o -name '*.cpp' -o -name '*.idl' ; find purple/purplexpcom/src/ -name '*.h' )|xargs cat |wc -l
20:56:44 <flo>    39108
20:58:02 <flo> ah, I forgot CSS files
20:58:25 <flo> $ (find instantbird/ purple/ -name '*.css' -o -name '*.js' -o -name '*.jsm' -o -name '*.xml' -o -name '*.xul' -o -name '*.manifest' -o -name '*.cpp' -o -name '*.idl' ; find purple/purplexpcom/src/ -name '*.h' )|xargs cat |wc -l
20:58:26 <flo>    44719
20:59:00 <clokep_work> Why wouldn't you just include all files? What are you trying to ignore? Images?
20:59:09 <clokep_work> You forgot .h files.
20:59:14 <flo> libpurple
20:59:27 <clokep_work> Ah, got it. :)
20:59:53 <flo> and also, various useless files in my local copy (.js~, ...)
21:00:08 <clokep_work> ~130 lines per bug.
21:00:09 <flo> I did count .h files
21:01:59 <flo> do FIXED bugs count? :)
21:02:46 <clokep_work> I think it's current bugs only. ;)
21:03:40 <flo> 	void (*update)(PurpleBuddyList *list,       PurpleBlistNode *node);       /**< This will update a node in the buddy list. */
21:03:40 <flo> 	void (*remove)(PurpleBuddyList *list,   PurpleBlistNode *node);       /**< This removes a node from the list */
21:03:46 * flo hates that kind of documentation :(
21:05:43 <clokep_work> I was just saying that earlier to my team at work. :)
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21:06:00 <clokep_work> computeArea(vertices) % Computes the area
21:06:04 <clokep_work> No, really? :P
21:06:05 <flo> what? That documentation that doesn't document anything is crap, not documentation? :)
21:06:13 <clokep_work> Yup.
21:06:34 <flo> clokep_work: actually, the _add_ function that actually removes the buddy could really need a better documentation than "add the buddy" ;)
21:07:48 <DGMurdockIII> im still geting that update bug
21:08:58 <DGMurdockIII> https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=641
21:09:01 <instantbot> Bug 641 min, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Failing to apply update immediately because "Instantbird is still running", before: "instantbird Aut
21:09:04 <DGMurdockIII> that one
21:09:42 <flo> that blist.c file could really benefit from a rewrite :-/
21:11:06 <clokep_work> DGMurdockIII: I randomly get it, but there's no pattern. :-/
21:11:15 <clokep_work> flo: s/blist.c/libpurple/ ;)
21:11:39 <DGMurdockIII> 2(clokep_work2): same
21:12:05 <clokep_work> I probably get it...once a month? Maybe a little more...I get it occasionally with Fx and Tb too though.
21:12:16 <flo> clokep_work: uh, yeah... Some parts are more acceptable than others though :).
21:14:50 <clokep_work> So Even has disappering buddies now, right? I  no longer seem to be having that problem with the "new" buddy list.
21:15:43 <flo> I really prefer bugs that have steps to reproduce ;)
21:20:09 <flo> "It's a safe assumption that SOMETHING called this function." uh. Sure :)
21:22:04 <clokep_work> Comparing to Pidgin's blist?
21:22:58 <flo> Pidgin blist doesn't handle what I'm trying to fix
21:23:10 <flo> it never shows buddies of disconnected accounts
21:24:13 <flo> I'm trying to receive a signal when a buddy of a disconnected accounts ("unknown" status in Instantbird, nothing accessible from the UI in Pidgin) becomes a disconnected buddy of a connected account
21:27:19 <clokep_work> Ah.
21:27:40 <clokep_work> This to fix Even's bug?
21:28:51 <flo> no. It's to display the status name (if there's no status text) in the second line of selected contact.
21:30:13 <flo> I have a fix, except that "Unknown" doesn't change to "Offline" when the account is connected.
21:30:40 <flo> the lack of signal in that case was a known bug of the js blist, but it wasn't visible in the UI yet :)
21:31:11 <clokep_work> Ooooo. I see. :)
21:38:53 <flo> waah, the statusType getter is executed 9 times when the account is disconnected, and 16 times when the account connects (if the buddy is online)!
21:48:08 <clokep_work> That sounds like a lot. :)
21:48:22 <clokep_work> I hope it at least caches the value or something.
21:48:36 <flo> it calls into libpurple
21:48:47 <clokep_work> Ohhhh, so no. We can't.
21:49:05 <flo> when the value is correctly cached, my printf doesn't appear :)
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21:55:34 <flo> bah, the _updateStatus method of the buddy prototype calls it at least 4 times for each status change :-S
21:55:52 <flo> Chaz6: hello. Welcome back :)
21:56:19 <clokep_work> All part of libpurple though? They couldn't just store it? ;)
21:56:41 <Chaz6> Hey flo! Thanks :)
21:56:44 <flo> no, I'm in imContact.js
21:56:50 <flo> *imContacts.js
21:57:00 <clokep_work> Ah well...I guess you can't blame libpurple then. :-D
21:57:35 <flo> I would need a very strange logic for that :)
21:58:56 <flo> I'm not sure if I should fix that or not. It doesn't make much sense to optimize something if we haven't been annoyed by its slowness before
21:59:29 * clokep_work doesn't know.
21:59:35 <clokep_work> I'm gonna head out. Bye.
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23:39:08 <flo> Good night
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