#instantbird log on 03 07 2011

All times are UTC.

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09:26:58 <flo> Good morning :)
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11:36:34 <clokep> When I move someone to a different group on XMPP the buddy keeps reverting after a restart. :-/
11:41:43 <clokep> No error on the console.
11:42:00 <flo> if it's facebook, it's expected
11:42:12 <flo> otherwise, it depends on the server's capabilities I think
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12:15:15 <flo> updated version of http://queze.net/goinfre/update-pings-2011.png : http://queze.net/goinfre/update-pings-2011-03-07.png
12:15:56 <Even1> wow
12:16:05 <Even1> The 600 bar seems well acquired now ^^
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13:15:21 <clokep_work> flo: No, it's jabber.org account.
13:15:40 <clokep_work> I could always remove them and re-add them I guess. ;)
13:16:38 <clokep_work> Yeah, 600ish people. :) I wonder what caused that jump from 550 to 6xx in early January.
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13:25:00 <flo> clokep_work: I just made another chart: http://queze.net/goinfre/update-pings-and-downloads-count.png
13:25:26 <flo> in blue the update pings, in red the downloads. It starts around the 0.2 release.
13:26:00 <clokep_work> Interesting.
13:26:14 <clokep_work> Fewer downloads now, but definitely more people keeping it.
13:26:31 <clokep_work> Does that downloads include from nightly testers or just from released packages?
13:26:56 <flo> automatic updates are not included
13:28:06 <flo> I'm wondering how it's possible to have only 600 update pings per day when we have between 80 and 200 downloads everyday.
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13:38:50 <flo> there were about 35,000 downloads on that period
13:39:49 <clokep_work> But only 600 users, still?
13:39:54 <flo> update pings
13:40:06 <flo> that's probably about 1500 daily users
13:40:40 <clokep_work> Does it not ping everyday?
13:40:42 <flo> if my calculation is right, we have had a 2% retention (people who download and then become active daily users) rate on that period
13:41:16 <flo> it will ping everyday only if Instantbird is connected 24/7, which is most likely not the case
13:41:48 <flo> I would like to know how many people who have downloaded it have actually started it at least once
13:45:33 <clokep_work> Oh, true. I'm sure a lot of people don't even start it.
13:45:33 <clokep_work> At least a few of those downloads are me. :)
13:46:09 * flo reads https://wiki.mozilla.org/Retention "Currently, approximately 50% of the people who download Firefox actually try it and about 50% of those people continue to use it actively."
13:49:45 <clokep_work> So that's a 25% download to retention rate.
13:49:54 <flo> for Firefox in 2007
13:50:01 <clokep_work> I see.
14:19:03 <clokep_work> I like that socket code from MSNMsgr, but it's MPL.
14:20:01 <clokep_work> It needs to be stripped of some MSN specific stuff too, but that's not very hard. :)
14:20:31 <flo> is there much useful code that you didn't already have?
14:20:52 <flo> if the code is interesting, we can ask the author about the license
14:21:06 <clokep_work> He didn't write it, he adapted it.
14:21:17 <clokep_work> Looking at it...I'd rewrite large portions of it anyway.
14:21:41 <clokep_work> Idk how the license would work if I just "base" it on it, but essentially reformat and redo parts of it.
14:26:36 <flo> it would be MPL
14:26:51 <flo> do you know what he adapted it from?
14:27:48 <clokep_work> The Original Code is JSIRC Library, The Initial Developer of the Original Code is New Dimensions Consulting, Inc.
14:27:58 <clokep_work> And the first contributor is Robert Ginda, rginda@ndcico.com, original author
14:28:05 <clokep_work> That website doesn't exist though.
14:28:18 <clokep_work> (I hav ea feeling the company is "vaporware")
14:28:57 <flo> that's the chatzilla author, isn't it?
14:29:14 <clokep_work> I'll check.
14:29:30 <flo> hmm, or Venkman
14:29:39 <flo> or both
14:29:55 <clokep_work> Yes.
14:32:16 * clokep_work is wondering if he can find that file in ChatZilla code somewhere.
14:39:12 <clokep_work> Since if we find the same file it'll be tri-licensed in there. :)
14:42:53 <clokep_work> Found it -- It's http://hg.mozilla.org/chatzilla/file/d5c0d1565064/js/lib/connection-xpcom.js
14:43:09 <clokep_work> So what do we do if someone took code that used to be MPL, forked, then the original code goes tri? ;)
14:45:46 <clokep_work> I'll have to contact Stephen Clavering I guess, who is the one that rewrote it for MSNMessenger.
14:45:56 <clokep_work> He made it all into a nice object instead of a bunch of confusing objects haha.
14:50:32 <clokep_work> Or I might just redo it from the ChatZilla stuff anyway, it has support for a few more general things than his.
14:50:36 <clokep_work> (I.e. binary or text streams.)
14:54:33 <flo> I hope you will be more lucky in your code reuse than I was for twitter and oauth :)
14:54:56 <flo> *luckier
14:55:15 <clokep_work> By "reuse" I think you mean "take large portions of this, delete, rename, copy & paste and reformat"....maybe. :(
15:03:07 <flo> I mean "save time" ;)
15:05:44 <clokep_work> I think it will save time. :)
15:09:08 <flo> looking at existing twitter and oauth code didn't save time at all for me ;)
15:13:38 <clokep_work> Idk about "save time", but it'll let me understand the necko code better and what can be done with it.
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15:30:05 <clokep_work> I hate how everything in Chatzilla creates every method separately as <Class name>.prototype.<method name> = function<prefixed method name>(...) {...}, makes it hard to track what's part of what. :(
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15:40:56 <clokep_work> I don't like forking files though since then I won't know if they change something / fix a bug / make it better.
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16:10:07 <clokep_work> I found the revision that relicensed the code. :)
16:10:32 <flo> ah :)
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16:11:00 <clokep_work> Which I'm gonna paste in here so I don't lose it. :) http://hg.mozilla.org/chatzilla/diff/96ec1e0f10ff/js/lib/connection-xpcom.js
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16:34:48 <clokep_work> Found another implementation: http://www.mozdev.org/source/browse/jslib/libraries/network/socket.js?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fx-cvsweb-markup
16:35:01 * clokep_work wonders why there is no good abstracted socket object in the Mozilla codebas.
16:35:36 * flo wonders the same about the systray icon ;)
16:38:15 <clokep_work> Is that what you're looking into now?
16:39:21 <flo> no
16:39:31 <flo> the soc2011 idea page is what I should be doing ;)
16:42:37 <clokep_work> Ah, what are you working on then?
16:43:26 <flo> did we have new ideas to add to that page, or should I just rephrase the existing content?
16:45:01 <clokep_work> Perhaps list some example protocols for JS protos?
16:46:11 <clokep_work> Do you remember where the weave code is stored? I can't find it and lxr keeps bugging out on me.
16:46:29 <flo> "Instantbird is at the beginning of its development and has an urgent need for a test suite." ahah. I guess it wasn't that urgent after all :-D
16:46:58 <flo> probably in a "sync" folder ;)
16:47:19 <igorko> guys fast pasting of nickname with first latter(s) and tab in planned?
16:47:28 <igorko> is planned* ?
16:47:47 <flo> I think there's an add-on for that
16:47:55 <igorko> hard to work without this feature 
16:48:42 <igorko> i saw only by double-clicking on nickname. But as you know that nickname must already be used in chat for clicking on it
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16:50:21 <flo> igorko: https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/264
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16:50:48 <igorko> oh cool Thanks
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16:57:46 <clokep_work> I found it, never mind. :)
17:00:40 <clokep_work> flo: Found another socket implementation in fireftp
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17:00:42 <clokep_work> http://www.mozdev.org/source/browse/fireftp/src/content/js/connection/dataSocket.js?rev=1.57;content-type=text%2Fx-cvsweb-markup
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17:01:02 <flo> do you have a quota for how many you can find per day? :)
17:01:22 <clokep_work> They're all too specific though. :)
17:02:39 <igorko> can't install that add-on
17:02:47 <igorko> nothing happens
17:03:21 <clokep_work> We have a bug about that. Yes. :-/
17:03:50 <clokep_work> We should ping mook about buming the max version.
17:03:56 * clokep_work is now known as clokep_food
17:04:23 <igorko> can someone remember me how to disable add-on version checkung?
17:04:40 <igorko> that string name
17:11:12 <igorko> already found in logs
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17:15:39 <flo> http://www.instantbird.org/soc2011.html thoughts? :)
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17:25:41 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 548 on bug 679.
17:25:43 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=679 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Add license header to browserRequest.*
17:28:46 <flo> ahah, I'm glad I tested that patch before pushing it
17:29:05 <flo> "XML Parsing Error: not well-formed Location: chrome://instantbird/content/browserRequest.xul"
17:29:36 <flo> the XML parser is being stupid, it fails to parse the file when there's a character in the "wrong"(=unexpected) encoding, even when it's in a comment
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17:35:26 <flo> ahah, and "<?xml version="1.0"?>" needs to be before any comment in the XML file, otherwise the parser is angry at you
17:41:29 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 725 to FIXED.
17:41:34 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=725 tri, --, 0.3a2, florian, RESO FIXED, In Message Styles preview are emails shown instead of nicks
17:42:10 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 699 to FIXED.
17:42:12 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=699 nor, --, 0.3a2, florian, RESO FIXED, [Mac only] Conversation tabs no longer have a close icon
17:48:03 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 679 to FIXED.
17:48:05 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=679 nor, --, 0.3a2, clokep, RESO FIXED, Add license header to browserRequest.*
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17:50:19 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/2bb56b783838 - Florian Quèze - Bug 725 - usernames are shown instead of aliases in message theme previews, r=clokep.
17:50:20 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/07d8cda33fa0 - Patrick Cloke - Bug 679 - Add license header to browserRequest.*, r=fqueze.
17:50:21 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/129c2dcbc28c - Florian Quèze - Bug 699 - [Mac only] Conversation tabs no longer have a close icon.
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18:04:30 <clokep_food> flo: Oops, what was the character? Your name? Stupid XML parser.
18:04:36 * clokep_food is reading the SOC file.
18:04:38 * clokep_food is now known as clokep_work
18:04:39 <flo> yes, my name
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18:12:06 * clokep_work is glad to knock another bug off his list.
18:12:12 <clokep_work> Even if it's uninteresting. ;)
18:12:32 * flo removed 3, including 2 blockers ;)
18:15:40 * flo has sorted the project ideas by name after removing the useless "Create a", "Build a" prefixes
18:24:47 <clokep_work> There's five unstarted instant messaging apps on mozdev (xing, gaimxul, reach, mozalive, mozsn), and four inactive ones (msnmsgr, MonkeyX, aimfire and aimfox).
18:27:23 <clokep_work> The aim one actually has a real implementation via the TOC protocol (which is documented by AOL.)
18:27:40 <flo> is TOC still supported?
18:28:40 <clokep_work> I think so.
18:28:44 <clokep_work> TOC2
18:34:02 <clokep_work> There was also a "Jabberzilla" at one point.
18:50:05 <clokep_work> Also, the SOC doc looks good. I can't think of any others right now.
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19:19:32 <clokep_work> Would system tray support and/or better Win7 support be good SoC type projects?
19:20:02 <flo> won't we implement that before SoC begins?
19:20:26 <flo> but yeah, "better OS integration" could be a good SoC project
19:25:48 <clokep_work> I guess we will if it's to be in 0.3 and we want to release in the next six months. :P
19:35:42 <flo> ooh, someone is working on https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=585069 :)
19:50:21 <flo> Good evening :)
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20:08:36 <clokep_work> We can't do that already? Weird.
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22:42:43 <clokep> Skype is adding ads (at least in the US) it seems.
22:43:53 <sonny> clokep, audio ads oo ?
22:43:57 * tymerkaev_away is now known as tymerkaev
22:44:23 <clokep> sonny: No real info: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110307/ts_alt_afp/usitcompanytelecominternetskype
22:44:55 <sonny> "by channeling voice, video and text conversations over the Web" -_-
22:45:24 <clokep> Yup.
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