#instantbird log on 03 04 2011

All times are UTC.

00:12:18 <sonny> hello :)
00:12:22 <sonny> comment tu vas?
00:18:33 <flo> sonny: you are talking to 18 people here ;)
00:18:48 <sonny> woah sorry
00:18:49 <clokep> Hi.
00:18:55 <sonny> wrong tab!
00:19:18 <sonny> mhh
00:19:27 <sonny> not wrong tab, spectrum bug
00:19:35 <clokep> What's up?
00:19:59 <flo> clokep: he's going to explain why he's not using Instantbird to talk to us ;)
00:20:47 <sonny> :-D
00:26:41 <clokep> haha.
00:26:49 <clokep> A lot of people in here don't seem to use Instantbird...at least for IRC. ;)
00:27:02 * clokep has a random tab on Firefox that won't disappear. :(
00:27:21 <sonny> clokep, do you have the bartab addon?
00:27:23 <flo> clokep: that will change once you will turn Instantbird into the best IRC client ever ;)
00:30:09 <clokep> Nope I don't sonny.
00:30:19 <clokep> flo: My goal is to make it the /easiest/ to use.
00:30:27 <clokep> I know IRC took me a really long time to figure out.
00:30:32 <clokep> I want it to act like any other protocol.
00:30:45 <clokep> Instead of having all these text comands, etc. to learn.
00:30:48 <flo> clokep: by the way, are all the IRC bugs you filed things that you plan to work on or just placeholders for future discussions if anybody is ever interested in these features?
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00:31:35 <flo> clokep: "easiest" may be some way to define "best" ;). For some people at least :).
00:32:48 <clokep> flo: They're ideas I've had that I either want to add or extensionize, but I figured I'd put them up in case someone wants to work on them.
00:32:53 <clokep> But I plan to do them all "eventually".
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00:38:34 <clokep> And yes, in my case "easiest" is "best".
00:38:44 * clokep wishes he had started with a protocol that had a real specification.
00:39:35 <flo> heh, you can stop (pause) once you have reached a point where it's as good as the current libpurple plugin, and then play with XMPP
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00:40:19 <flo> clokep: sonny would probably like that ;)
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00:40:44 <clokep> But then I have to deal w/ XML. :P
00:41:04 <sonny> :)
00:41:15 <clokep> I'd love to look into Skype...but....we all know the issues. :(
00:41:25 <flo> I think sonny and his team decided to convert the XML to JSON with regexp before parsing it with the JSON parser
00:41:30 <sonny> for our XMPP lib we are parsing XML to JSON
00:41:31 <clokep> I also want to take Rainbow and make a IP address based protocol that gives video over a socket. ;)
00:41:49 <sonny> but for you guys I recommand you to use E4X
00:42:14 <sonny> or our lib :p
00:43:05 <clokep> I've never used E4X, I've seen it before though.
00:43:07 <clokep> What is your lib sonny?
00:43:21 <clokep> What is your lib for anyway? I know you're interested in XMPP, but never really got what you guys do with it.
00:44:03 <flo> clokep: sometimes (especially when I see how crappily it's currently implemented), I would like to try to implement MSN in JS. And then support voice and video so that we can claim (and show!) we are better than other existing multiprotocol clients :-D
00:44:36 <sonny> clokep, for the moment it's only support Mozilla socket but we plan to support websocket/BOSH as transport
00:44:42 <sonny> and node socket
00:44:54 <sonny> the idea is to have a generic XMPP lib for JavaScript
00:44:57 <clokep> Does MSN have decent documentation (somewhere)?
00:45:08 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/80b1aaf9488c - Florian Quèze - Bug 698 - Fix appearance of contact buttons and of droptarget highlight on Windows.
00:45:16 <clokep> Also...I think I've built the most comprehensive set of IRC documentation on the web. :-X
00:45:44 <sonny> and a generic API
00:45:48 <sonny> s/generic/common
00:45:58 <clokep> sonny, so it's just an XMPP lib? So we could probably write a protocol around it and use it to pass the actual information? That sounds easy. :)
00:46:18 <sonny> clokep, yes but it's not finished :)
00:46:18 <flo> clokep: you still need to review the code before using it ;)
00:46:37 <flo> and probably rewrite parts of it ;)
00:46:43 <sonny> probably ;-)
00:46:55 <sonny> clokep, do you have a bitbucket account?
00:47:23 <flo> clokep: there's probably no decent MSN documentation, but there's enough documentation to be able to at least start
00:47:33 <clokep> sonny: I do have one.
00:47:49 <sonny> clokep, great, would you like to take a look at the lib?
00:48:22 <flo> and once you have the authentication (which is SSL'ed) working, you can reverse engineer the rest which is in "plain text" (not really readable but probably "guessable" once you have understood the basics of the protocol's "logic")
00:48:26 <clokep> Sure. :)
00:48:36 <clokep> Idk how to give you my account info? Is it my openID address or...?
00:48:54 <sonny> clokep, it's your bitbucket login
00:49:50 <clokep> clokep in that case. ;)
00:51:36 <sonny> test
00:51:41 <sonny> !
00:51:48 <sonny> clokep, can you send me a private message?
00:51:52 <sonny> on IRC
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00:54:18 <sonny> bad gateway
00:54:20 <clokep> sonny: I've been having trouble receiving IRC messages sometimes. :-/
00:55:25 <clokep> I'm trying w/o SSL to see if that helps...
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01:00:10 <clokep> flo: Default XMPP server is gtalk? That's kind of weird considering there's a separate gtalk account type. ;)
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01:03:42 <flo> clokep: I made that change before we added gtalk in the list
01:03:57 <clokep> Oh OK.
01:04:09 <flo> and I think the protocol override currently doesn't change anything to these default values
01:05:15 <flo> sonny: by the way, are you going to opensource your lib soon?
01:12:05 <sonny> flo, Don't know but you can use it
01:12:23 <sonny> flo, you have read/write access on the repo
01:12:25 <flo> if we use it, it's instantly open source ;)
01:12:43 <sonny> flo, well you probably will not use the entirely lib
01:12:43 <clokep> They have a socket object done already flo. ;)
01:12:55 <flo> clokep: exactly the file I was reading ;)
01:12:58 <clokep> I have a connection listener on mine though which they do not.
01:14:01 <clokep> Although there's "mozSocket" "socket" and "websocket" :P
01:14:02 <sonny> I hope you'll be able to use it
01:14:34 <sonny> we also are working on BOSH
01:21:31 <sonny> well we just decided to release it
01:21:38 <sonny> (the lib)
01:23:34 <flo> cool :)
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01:30:28 <clokep> Just pinged mixedpuppy about those license files again. ;)
01:31:46 <flo> clokep: thanks :)
01:41:21 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com added attachment 546 to bug 679.
01:41:23 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 546 on bug 679.
01:41:24 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=679 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Add license header to browserRequest.*
01:42:21 <clokep> Should be an easy review. :)
01:42:47 <flo> the LICENSE file in the repo is MPL1.1 only?
01:43:02 <clokep> Yes. :-/
01:43:04 <clokep> I hope that's OK.
01:43:30 <flo> it's not
01:43:36 <flo> MPL and GPL are incompatible
01:43:39 <clokep> Bah.
01:44:16 <clokep> I guess I should ask for it to be tri-licensed?
01:44:16 <flo> (that's the whole point of tri-licensing the files. If they were compatible we would just use only the MPL)
01:44:47 <flo> yes.
01:44:59 <flo> We can accept only tri-licensed code, or more permissive licenses (MIT, BSD, ...)
01:45:18 <clokep> Personally I'm all for the "I don't give a shit what you do w/ my code license"
01:45:45 <clokep> flo: I pinged him in #maildev, I'll be back in a few minutes though.
01:45:47 <flo> "as long as you don't claim I'm responsible for your modifications" ;)
01:46:18 <clokep> He said it's fine and to remind him tomorrow. He's on his way out.
01:47:23 <flo> ok, cool :)
01:48:03 <flo> I wonder if instantbird/theme/browserRequest.css needs a license header too. I think it was originally copied from the add-on too, but I'm not sure any line is still the same in it :-D.
01:51:18 <flo> ok, it's almost the same as oauth.css, it needs a header too
01:52:20 <clokep> CSS get's C++ style comments?
01:52:21 * instantbot frowns at clokep
01:53:24 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org denied review for attachment 546 on bug 679.
01:53:26 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=679 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Add license header to browserRequest.*
01:53:29 <flo> just look in another CSS file? ;)
01:53:37 <clokep> :p
01:53:41 <clokep> You don't use comments. ;)
01:53:51 <flo> license headers are still there :-P
01:54:00 <clokep> True.
01:54:07 <flo> it's /* */, not //
01:57:15 <clokep> Got it. :)
01:57:19 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com added attachment 547 to bug 679.
01:57:21 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=679 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Add license header to browserRequest.*
02:00:42 <clokep> Hmm....their mozSocket might be too specific for us. :-/
02:00:46 <flo> is "Mozilla Messaging" becoming a product?
02:00:54 <clokep> It's an organization.
02:01:06 <clokep> Split from Mozilla Foundation or whatever.
02:01:14 <clokep> http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/
02:01:21 <flo> http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/mail/test/mozmill/folder-tree-modes/test-custom-smart-folder.js#1 another header for comparison
02:01:23 <clokep> Or more likely: http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/about/
02:01:38 <flo> is he a mozilla employee?
02:01:49 <clokep> I don't think so.
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02:12:52 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org denied review for attachment 547 on bug 679.
02:12:53 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=679 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Add license header to browserRequest.*
02:13:53 <flo> enough nitpicking for the night. Good night! :)
02:15:26 <clokep> 'night.
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02:19:09 <Facu_T> hello
02:19:11 <Facu_T> one question
02:19:21 <Facu_T> is there a way to change one's nickname in msn?
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02:21:33 <Facu_T> sorry
02:21:36 <Facu_T> did anyone answer?
02:21:41 <sonny> no
02:22:06 <Facu_T> oh ok
02:23:48 <clokep> By nickname do you mean the "server alias"?
02:24:36 * clokep doesn't really know -- doesn't use MSN. :(
02:24:54 <Facu_T> i mean the name that my contacts see on their contact list
02:25:05 <clokep> Oh, the friendly name or whatever it's called.
02:25:14 <clokep> I'm not sure, sorry. :-/
02:25:24 <Facu_T> oh, no problem
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02:37:41 <Facu_T> i think its called display name
02:38:35 <Facu_T> or friendly name
02:42:00 <clokep> Mmhmm.
02:42:15 <clokep> I know you can set an "alias" in the options, but idk if that changes anything on the server. :-/
02:42:42 <Facu_T> nope
02:42:46 <Facu_T> i already checked with a friend
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03:13:11 <DetroitLibertyPenguin> is there anyway I can get IB to make noise when I recieve a message, but not when a buddy logs on or off? 
03:13:36 <clokep> You can probably delete the sound files?
03:14:52 <clokep> Apparently it's controlled by the theme? So I guess you could do that too. ;)
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03:30:37 <Andrew93> Hello all
03:35:58 <Andrew93> Hello?
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03:46:09 <Andrew93> Hello again
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06:35:01 <iLobster> Greetings
06:39:13 <iLobster> Last nightly fixed wrong icon at "Start a conversation" button in contact list but "Expand" button's icon is completely lost now: http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/3354/buddylist2.png (mouse cursor is pointing right under "Start a conversation" but is not visible on this screenshot)
06:40:21 <iLobster> OS is Windows 7 64-bit
06:44:34 <iLobster> on Windows XP "Expand" button's icon is visible
06:50:11 <iLobster> screenshot of Windows XP buddy list: http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/3104/buddylist2xp.png
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11:20:57 <clokep> Hm...so on Windows I now see the little chat bubble....but I don't see the chevron to expand the contact still.
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17:19:09 <flo> the expand/collapse icon not visible on Win7 was just a stupid packaging error (yeah, yet another packaging error :-/). I forgot to add them in the aero section of the jar.mn file
17:19:38 <flo> thanks for reporting it :)
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17:49:07 <clokep_work> You're welcome. ;)
17:57:12 <flo> it wasn't _only_ directed to you, you were the third to report it ;).
17:57:12 <clokep_work> The only thing I don'tl ike about contacts so far is that if a friend is marked "away", buton Facebook it'll pop up with Facebook as the buddy of choice to IM them w/. :(
17:57:24 <clokep_work> And I understand why, just not liking it.
17:57:33 <flo> It's great to see nightlies really work for testing and we are notified of issues as soon as they appear :)
17:57:34 <clokep_work> Hahah. I know, I didn't read the logs before saying that. :)
17:58:40 <flo> you have a timezone disadvantage to report very visible issues in the newest nightly ;)
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17:59:52 * Mic just had an idea: what about areweawesomeyet.com? It's not taken yet .. ;)
17:59:55 <flo> I was a bit concerned by more or less the same problem. I thought about it for IRC, where the status are very underdeveloped ...
18:00:26 <flo> Mic: any idea of the data source to use? ;)
18:00:49 <Mic> hmm, it could just say "NO." until we can think of something ;)
18:01:12 <flo> it would say "YES" once we have enough money to recruit our first intern ;)
18:01:20 <clokep_work> Right. :( IRC, Facebook, MySpace maybe.
18:01:29 <clokep_work> Interns are free.
18:01:39 <flo> uh?
18:01:53 <Mic> There are paid internships here in germany
18:02:13 <flo> 360euros/month is the legal minimum for interns in France
18:02:20 <clokep_work> I was mostly joking. :(
18:02:40 <clokep_work> Most engineering interns are paid. Architecture interns have to be paid in the US...uhhh...business and finance, etc. are almost never paid in the US.
18:03:33 <flo> in France they are paid only if the internship lasts at least 3 months
18:03:52 <clokep_work> Interesting.
18:03:53 <flo> (or if the company wants to pay of course...)
18:04:09 <clokep_work> I like student projects better, they pay to be allowed to do it. ;)
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18:04:26 <flo> Google summer of code is nice too ;)
18:05:16 <clokep_work> Yes, is Instantbird even elgible for that?
18:07:55 <clokep_work> And for a while I had a timezone avantage since I was still awake when they finished. :) But now I go to bed early haha
18:08:18 <flo> heh
18:09:11 <flo> We applied several times and got refused each time. The main reason was "there was too many good applications", the secondary reason was "you should work with Mozilla" or "how is it different from Pidgin/Adium which are accepted?"
18:10:42 <flo> I'm not sure if this year we want to apply again separately or try to convince people at mozilla to take our ideas in their idea list (I tried last year and got a "no, too many mozilla applications already" and again this year and the reply was "maybe yes, we could discuss it").
18:10:47 <flo> the application deadline is soon anyway
18:11:16 <clokep_work> Right. I just wasn't sure. :)
18:11:27 <clokep_work> I wasn't sure if there were like size reqs or anything.
18:11:36 <clokep_work> Be good to piggy back on mozilla/pidgin I guess?
18:12:14 <flo> I don't know where our old ideas lists are. It seems they got lost when we upgraded the website for 0.2
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18:15:46 <clokep_> Ah I see.
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18:17:45 <flo> ahah, they are in the hg repository :)
18:20:15 <flo> https://hg.instantbird.org/websites/www.instantbird.org/raw-file/548c83dc9abf/soc2008.html
18:20:16 <flo> https://hg.instantbird.org/websites/www.instantbird.org/raw-file/548c83dc9abf/soc2009.html
18:20:16 <flo> https://hg.instantbird.org/websites/www.instantbird.org/raw-file/548c83dc9abf/soc2010.html (apparently we were out of ideas, we just explained in more details some of the project ideas)
18:21:34 <clokep_> Should I just skip the 09 ideas then?
18:21:44 <flo> you can :)
18:22:40 <flo> Ubiquity seems dead so we can forget that
18:22:58 <flo> the mobile version would be interesting on Android. Windows Mobile is now pointless
18:23:03 <clokep_> As is WinMo. ;)
18:23:04 <clokep_> Yes.
18:23:12 <clokep_> Test suite would be very nice.
18:23:22 <clokep_> Except then I'd have to commit tests also. :)
18:23:42 <clokep_> Account import is cool, in particular once we have logs.
18:23:47 <flo> we would have to find machines to run the tests!
18:23:55 <clokep_> Whiteboarding would be absolutely awesome.
18:24:11 <clokep_> The build machine' can't run them? :-/
18:24:23 <flo> I'm not sure we want to keep "logging" as a summer of code idea, as I've already mostly decided how it should be implemented.
18:25:20 <flo> I guess it depends on which tests we use and how long the whole test suite takes to complete :).
18:25:35 <clokep_> JavaScript protocols? ;)
18:25:58 <flo> that's still valid. We should just specify that it should not be IRC or twitter ;)
18:26:23 <clokep_> Yes, of course.
18:30:42 <flo> what's the use case for whiteboarding by the way?
18:31:44 <clokep_> Being awesome. :)
18:31:54 <clokep_> I would have found it very useful at school actually.
18:32:01 <clokep_> Or even when we have UI discussions on IRC.
18:32:04 <flo> I prefer having the webcam on MSN to be awesome :-P
18:32:26 <clokep_> Video support would be more awesome, yes.
18:32:30 <clokep_> But Whiteboarding is neat too. :)
18:32:39 <flo> I'm not even sure how difficult that is
18:32:52 <clokep_> Video on MSN?
18:33:36 <flo> Mozilla is somehow already able to use the webcam, Songbird people worked on using gstreamer, aMSN already supports that feature so we know at least some open source implementation exists to take inspiration.
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18:34:16 <clokep_> Mozilla...webcam -- are you referring to Rainbow extension? If not...I'd like to know what you're referring to. :)
18:35:08 <flo> wasn't there an <input type="photo"> at some point so that Firefox mobile can upload a photo of you taken from the Phone's webcam instead of a file from the disk?
18:35:49 * clokep_ goes to Bing that.
18:35:59 <clokep_> (Yes, I use Bing. ;))
18:36:11 <flo> with IE
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18:37:15 <flo> what's http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/layout/forms/nsICapturePicker.idl ?
18:37:54 <flo> there's also a device: protocol
18:37:57 <clokep_> Initialize the camera picker widget
18:38:19 <clokep_> I see.
18:39:26 <flo> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/netwerk/protocol/device/
18:40:04 <clokep_> flo: https://github.com/mozilla/oauthorizer/blob/master/LICENSE#L447
18:40:23 <clokep_> Tri-license.
18:40:23 <clokep_> I'll update the patch at home.
18:41:44 <clokep_> I see.
18:41:44 <clokep_> So what does Rainbow do differently than this stuff?
18:41:46 <flo> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=507749
18:41:57 <flo> I feel like DGMurdockIII pasting some random links :)
18:42:19 <flo> I don't know what Rainbow is :-S
18:43:42 <flo> clokep_: the new license file is much better (for us at least ;)) :)
18:45:42 <clokep_> flo: https://mozillalabs.com/rainbow/
18:47:03 <flo> apparently there are many license headers that don't have the line break after "The Initial Developer of the Original Code is" when it's "Mozilla" or "Mozilla corporation" and not the name of an individual.
18:50:43 <clokep_> I usually only add it if it goes over 80 chars on the line
18:51:14 <flo> yeah, ok, forget the comment I wrote in the bug :)
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18:58:04 <flo> http://mozillalabs.com/messaging/2011/03/03/new-ubuntu-integration/ that seems very interesting :)
19:03:35 <clokep_> There seems to be no documentation on the "device" stuff or the capture picker stuff.
19:04:14 <flo> it seems Rainbow is to enable web content (HTML from webservers) to use the webcam and microphone
19:04:24 <flo> isn't the code the documentation? ;)
19:04:28 <flo> diner time, back later
19:04:57 <clokep_> Ah I see.
19:06:08 <clokep_> Great comment: // Because no capture providers are implemented at the moment capture will always be null and this function will always fail
19:12:50 <clokep_> Seems like https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=451674 will actually add support for it.
19:13:20 <clokep_> (And that sounds an awful lot like what Rainbow is trying to do? :P)
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19:33:56 <clokep_> Also looks Linux only.
19:33:59 <clokep_> OK I'm done now. ;)
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22:26:31 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/99f1e4bad760 - Florian Quèze - Bug 698 - merge buddies into contact: package expand.png and collapse.png for aero too.
22:26:58 <flo> Good night! :)
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