#instantbird log on 03 02 2011

All times are UTC.

00:06:45 <clokep> So blog post...you think we should wait for contacts?
00:08:10 <flo> no idea.
00:08:17 <flo> do you have enough material for an interesting status update?
00:09:58 <flo> we will probably post on the blog for contacts (but that doesn't necessarily mean it has to be in a status update post), when the association will be created (should be next week, though I'm not sure we can publish that until we are ready to accept donations... which will be a few weeks later once we have a bank account for it), when the mailing list will become public (I'm tired to be the only one responding to user support resquest ;))
00:10:41 <clokep> I don't know if I do or not. I'll have ot think about it.
00:11:53 <flo> we can post about anything (interesting add-ons, preview of whatever we are preparing, demo of a feature we have had for a long time but never showed, ...)
00:12:10 <flo> it's sad that we've never posted about the "magic copy&paste" in conversations
00:13:57 <flo> I'm not even sure all the posts planned in https://wiki.instantbird.org/User:Fqueze/0.2_Launch have been posted
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00:15:06 <clokep> Is there a lot of traffic on the mailing list?
00:15:18 <clokep> Is the association multi-national or whatever?
00:15:43 <flo> I would say about 5 emails a week + our replies
00:17:00 <flo> Good question. I don't think anything would block non-french people from being part of it.
00:17:19 <flo> but I'm not sure it's very important.
00:18:37 <flo> we create it mostly so that we have a separate bank account for Instantbird, so that we can pay all the costs from it, and accept donations (and adsense and amazon affiliate revenues, which currently are about $0).
00:18:43 <clokep> I was thinking more donation wise as opposed to it being in French or not. ;)
00:19:52 <flo> I think we will have a paypal link somewhere
00:20:21 <flo> I would like to explore the idea of creating something similar to the "I heart Miro" Firefox add-on.
00:20:48 <flo> so that people can donate without paying anything
00:21:03 <clokep> What is that?
00:21:29 <flo> it basically adds the <insert your name> referral tag to any Amazon URL that doesn't contain any referral tag yet.
00:21:56 <clokep> Ah, cool.
00:21:58 <flo> so that 5% of all you buy from amazon goes to the non profit of your choosing
00:22:15 <clokep> I buy a lot on Amazon. ;)
00:22:22 <flo> so do I
00:22:55 <flo> 5% of my annual book orders pays at least one month of one server :)
00:23:45 <clokep> Too bad you didn't have that before...5% of my text book orders would've paid a fe wmonths probably.
00:23:51 <clokep> (I spent around $1000 last semester...)
00:23:56 <clokep> But alas I've graduated.
00:24:49 <flo> 5% of that is about $50 -> 36€. That's one month of what Even pays for our main server
00:25:06 <clokep> Mmhm.
00:25:36 <flo> (dollars are cheap :-/)
00:25:39 <clokep> $50 a month?! That's pretty ridiculous...
00:25:59 <clokep> I think the site I ran was $98 a year or osmething?
00:26:12 <flo> it's not a site, it's a server
00:26:32 <flo> dedicated. With unlimited data transfer
00:28:29 <clokep> Ah, true. You're right.
00:28:39 <clokep> That included unlimited transfer actually. :)
00:28:44 <flo> it's pretty cheap in fact
00:29:05 <clokep> Forgot that it needs a dedicated service with shell access and stuff I assume.
00:29:30 <flo> we are considering upgrading to a more beefy server soon (and a little more expansive too)
00:30:29 <flo> the new one would have 4 CPU cores, a few GB of RAM, 2TB of disk space, and 1Gbps bandwidth
00:32:26 <flo> it's currently 1 CPU core of 2Ghz, 1GB of RAM, and 2*160GB of disk space, with a 100Mbps connection
00:32:42 <clokep> Ah, I see.
00:32:51 <clokep> That's a big upgrade.
00:33:25 <flo> it doesn't change the price very much, because we still pay the same price as when it was new for the old machine ;)
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00:34:34 <flo> AIO is pretty CPU intensive. And we have many services running from the same server.
00:36:15 <flo> and nightlies take a lot of disk space! Most of our server down times recently have been because the hard disk was full.
00:36:40 <flo> I'll probably archive old (2008, 2009) nightlies on DVD anyway :)
00:37:05 <flo> I don't think they are used often enough to be worth keeping on the main server
00:37:18 <clokep> I doubt anything used before the 0.2 released is used.
00:37:55 <flo> we still get crash reports from 0.1.2 :-S
00:38:43 <flo> but I doubt we will ever want to support that :)
00:39:34 <clokep> Hahah, yes. They're 2 versions out of date now? 3?
00:40:05 <flo> 0.1.3 and 0.2 (if we don't count micro versions)
00:40:46 <flo> it was the first version with auto-updates and crash reporting :)
00:40:56 <flo> and the first version with a build system that just works
00:42:11 <flo> I remember it took me a week to build 0.1.1 :-D. (needed to build mozilla, libpurple and purplexpcom/ instantbird/ separately using different build systems, and to put the parts together... on each OS).
00:43:36 <clokep> Ouhc. :(
00:43:41 <clokep> That's pretty painful.
00:44:30 <flo> and packaging wasn't automated either of course :)
00:45:08 <flo> it feels so good to have a build on each commit and a nightly every night on each OS without doing anything ;).
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00:46:27 <clokep> Well almost every night. ;)
00:46:52 <flo> the waterfall is all green. I don't know what you are talking about :-P
00:48:24 * clokep just got an IM sound and doesn't have any IMs. :(
00:48:39 <flo> that's bad :(
00:48:42 <clokep> It's also possible I'm hearing things.
00:49:16 <flo> I've had conversations that failed to open a few times. Of course, I could never reproduce...
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00:50:04 <flo> Morian: "Instantbird encountered a serious error and cannot start, we apologize for the inconvenience." I love that dialog :).
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00:52:09 <clokep> Missing errors stink. :( Very hard to debug.
00:53:28 <flo> clokep: by the way, I tend to not report the strange bugs I notice, because I'm very often on half rebuilt debug build that are unreliable, so I tend to assume (maybe too often) that it's because my build is crappy that it doesn't work.
00:53:47 <clokep> OK.
00:54:21 <clokep> I think my conversations that failed to load are to do with my connection w/ IRC dying...which might be from me having too many connections to the same IRC severs open.
00:54:26 <flo> Nightlies are not supposed to be that broken (always rebuilt from scratch).
00:55:13 <flo> if that's the mozilla server, it refuses new connections with an explicit error message, it doesn't drop the old ones. (except if that changed recently).
00:55:44 <flo> if it hasn't changed, there's a limit of 3 connections from the same IP.
00:56:42 <clokep> Yes, sometimes I have more than that. ;)
00:58:25 <flo> detach buddy works
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01:05:52 <flo> there are so many animations in the buddy list that it's almost fun to play with it :)
01:07:16 <clokep> Hahah. :) Is the rest all landing at once or piece meal again?
01:07:35 <flo> the rest?
01:08:05 <clokep> The rest of the contacts blist stuff.
01:08:11 <flo> I'll land all my buddy list changes at once (I still need to fix reordering of buddies, and drag&drop)
01:08:28 <flo> the conversation wrapper and conversation UI change will be the third part
01:08:36 <flo> and after that I think the rest will be in follow ups
01:08:45 <clokep> OK!
01:09:06 <flo> want to review the patch? :-P
01:11:17 <clokep> Haha, probably not. :-X I'll read it over if you'd like.
01:11:38 <clokep> For Sockets...woiuld you like them to be able to add multiple different delimiters and have multiple listeners, etc.? I'm ont sure how useful that is.
01:12:00 <flo> haven't we decided they should not handle delimiters at all?
01:13:01 <clokep> Oh, right.
01:13:08 <clokep> OK. Then another question. :)
01:13:24 <clokep> You had suggested a read method, I think just adding a listener would make more sense.
01:13:40 <clokep> Since wouldn't you want to always just be told when new data is available?
01:14:18 <clokep> If it's about separating it into a certain # of bytes, I believe you can set the socket to do that automatically.
01:14:27 <clokep> And we should take it as a param when you create the socket?
01:14:31 <flo> if you know how much data you need to do anything useful with it, you most likely don't want to read anything until at least that amout of data is available
01:14:59 <clokep> Alright, I need to check into the code again then.
01:15:03 <flo> ah, I didn't know we could do that directly on the socket
01:15:47 <clokep> The input and output stream take a "segment size" and "segment count" parameter.
01:15:55 <clokep> I believe those are ferring to the bytes that are read at once.
01:16:11 <clokep> i.e. you can always read 512 bytes, but 0 (= infinite) segments
01:16:13 <flo> the example is a bit stupid, but imagine the socket is for a file transfer and you know the size of the file. You probably don't have anything to do with the data until you have received the whole file, but knowing how much data has been received is useful to update a progress UI
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01:16:52 <clokep> Hmmm....OK.
01:16:56 <clokep> I'll think about it a bit more.
01:17:34 <flo> (the example is stupid because you probably still want to copy the already available data to a file on the disk)
01:20:59 <flo> I'm not sure of what we *really* need because I haven't read enough of the OSCAR/MSN/Yahoo documentations to know what's really useful and what could theoretically be needed but won't actually be used.
01:21:22 <flo> so maybe just keep it as simple as you can and we will still be able to add more stuff if needed when implementing other protocols.
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01:37:08 <clokep> I'll probably keep it simple.
01:37:14 <clokep> Right now I'm trying to get the event sink to work.
01:37:21 <clokep> So we can get status messages on the connection.
01:37:24 <clokep> Kind of important. :)
01:40:37 <flo> do you know how you can handle the proxies yet?
01:41:17 <clokep> I just need to pass it a proxy object.
01:41:25 <clokep> My implementation is set up for it, I just pass it null right now though.
01:42:07 <clokep> See: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/XPCOM_Interface_Reference/nsISocketTransportService#createTransport%28%29
01:42:26 <clokep> It just takes a nsIProxyInfo object.
01:42:37 <clokep> Is there a "default" proxy in the UI somewhere I should be using?
01:44:32 <clokep> flo: In order to set the event sink it asks for an "nsIEventTarget" which is apparently supposed to be a thread of some sort...I don't suppose you have any ideas? :-D
01:44:52 <clokep> I tried "null" (which lets it use any thread?) but that threw errors about javascript trying to access a different thread.
01:45:09 <flo> you probably need to get the current thread
01:45:13 <flo> (the UI thread)
01:46:23 <clokep> Alright. Is that the "NS_GetCurrentThread" I see floating around, or is that a C thing only?
01:47:04 <clokep> Apparently there's a thread manager I can use. Nvm.
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01:48:28 <clokep> OK, this might be a silly question..but how do I find what the class is for Components.classes to get an instance of an object?
01:49:43 <flo> you mxr the interface name and filter on .js files ;)
01:50:15 <flo> I don't remember it, but the way to get the current thread in JS is used a lot in unit tests, so you are sure to find it :)
01:50:28 <clokep> I can usually find it in sample code...but is there a better way? :)
01:51:06 <flo> if it's not documented, I don't think you can do any better than looking at some code that works.
01:54:24 <clokep> Hmm...so I'm no longer getting errors, but I'm not getitng messages either haha.
01:54:51 <flo> is it an improvement? :)
01:57:20 <clokep> Neve rmind. I'm just dumb.
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02:07:32 <clokep> I have it using the listener properly but it's not calling my specified callback, so just trying to debug.
02:07:38 <clokep> You were right -- I found it in a unit test. :)
02:11:17 <flo> :)
02:12:20 <flo> it's a good replacement for setTimeouts of 0ms because 0ms is actually a few ms to avoid webpages freezing the UI with infinite immediate execution
02:12:59 <clokep> Makes sense. Are we using it Instantbird?
02:15:00 <flo> no. setTimeout is shorter to write
02:15:13 <flo> so I guess we won't use it until we put it in some utils jsm file :)
02:15:56 <clokep> Hahah, fair enough.
02:16:28 <flo> I hope we don't have enough setTimeouts of 0s for the difference to be noticeable :)
02:18:42 <clokep> Hmm...should the UI be the "currentThread" or the "mainThread" or do I need to like get it by ID?
02:19:41 <clokep> Oh I don't think you can even get one from an ID. :-/ Hmmm...
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02:22:01 <clokep> Got it working, seems I have to have it on the thread from the IRC stuff.
02:22:12 <flo> the UI is on the mainThread, which is most likely the currentThread too when you are executing JS code without having explicitly requested a new thread
02:26:46 <clokep> Yay, it's working. :-D
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02:39:54 <clokep> So it seems that just by the status listener we can see the percentage of a file transfer that is complete.
02:46:01 <flo> so, my drag&drop code is complete. How many bugs do I have? :)
02:46:15 <clokep> flo: I have http://pastebin.instantbird.com/580 but I can't access this.base cause it's in the wrong scope, is there some way that I can handle that?
02:47:38 <flo> "this" is wrong?
02:48:53 <flo> if you try onTransportStatus: (function(...) {...}).bind(this) does it work?
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02:57:24 <clokep> flo: No, it doesn't. (Woudln't "this" still be the _sink object in that case?)
02:57:25 <clokep> How many bugs are there?
02:58:19 <flo> severals
02:58:24 <flo> already removed a few of them
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03:03:50 <clokep> I can't wrap my head around this right now. I'll look at it again tomorrow.
03:05:55 <flo> probably what I should do too :)
03:06:22 <flo> it's so easy to mess up +1 and -1 in a code moving items in an indexed list...
03:10:18 <clokep> Yes. It is.
03:10:30 <clokep> At least indexing starts at 0 in Javascript and not 1 like in MATLAB. :(
03:11:12 <clokep> Ah, OK I think it worked!
03:11:17 <clokep> But my connection is too fast to tell. :-[
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03:36:45 <flo> I know approximately where my bug is (someone in 3 to 5 lines of code) and how to reproduce. I'll check that tomorrow :).
03:36:47 <flo> Good night! :)
03:37:06 <flo> s/someone/somewhere/
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17:04:43 <flo> hello
17:05:56 <igorko> hi there
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17:22:50 <flo> apparently pidgin developers have fix for the MSN adding issue (http://developer.pidgin.im/viewmtn/revision/info/bc63343ea80150622360ff3bdbf293a8d12eb670)
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18:04:18 <flo> bah, i just found a bug, and when looking at the related code, there was already a big FIXME comment about the issue :-D
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19:06:53 <clokep_work> That'll be good if they have an MSN fix. :) Lots of people asking about it.
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19:18:14 <clokep_work> I guess you should fix your FIXME comments first. ;)
19:18:25 <clokep_work> The pidgin guys releasing a version w/ that patch?
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19:20:20 <flo> clokep_work: it's hasn't been tested well yet apparently
19:20:52 <flo> clokep_work: do you remember if there was a way to reproduce the broken contacts displayed after failed css transitions?
19:21:32 <flo> was there a bug about it where I could read again what we know about this issue? (I think I have a similar issue and may be able to fix all of that at once :))
19:28:21 <clokep_work> There's a bug, let me find it.
19:28:40 <clokep_work> bug 675
19:28:43 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=675 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Sign off transition not starting/finishing
19:28:59 <flo> looking :)
19:29:00 <flo> thanks
19:32:01 <clokep_work> But no, no "good" way to do it...although it seems to happen when I open a group as a user is signing on / off?
19:32:04 <flo> the issue I just had with buddies is that if we remove the buddy before the add transition has started at all, transitionend will never be fired
19:32:32 <flo> so we never remove the DOM node
19:32:50 <flo> and that broken useless DOM node causes all sorts of unexpected issues
19:33:57 <clokep_work> I think that's what my issue was too, two transitions over lapping in some way.
19:35:00 <flo> the only solution I see right now is adding a setTimeout at the same time as the remove transition, to cleanup if for some reason the remove transition has never actually started
19:35:22 <clokep_work> Can you stop a transition?
19:35:36 <clokep_work> Like "stop all transitions, then start this other one"?
19:36:50 <flo> the problem is that the remove one won't start because the add one has never started (and so the height is still 0, which means no animation is needed at all)
19:38:30 <clokep_work> Oh I see. :(
19:39:38 <flo> hmm, maybe I can be more intelligent and directly fully remove the DOM node if we are still in the expand transition.
19:40:01 <flo> that would be a bit uggly if the expand transition has started, but it shouldn't be that common :)
19:43:47 <clokep_work> Hmm...can you check the height, if it's 0,just remove it, otherwise queue the transition?
19:44:35 <flo> maybe :)
19:44:58 <flo> I must admit I'm not really motivated by that detail right now though ;)
19:46:28 <clokep_work> Just put a FIXME comment. :)
19:47:11 <flo> heh, yeah... :-D
19:49:18 <flo> hmm, the code is a bit different for contacts, it should already handle the case of expand-not-started correctly :-S
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20:03:23 <clokep_work> Copy it and use that then? :)
20:05:36 <clokep_work> It'd be nice to be able to search the blog. ;)
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21:49:21 <clokep_work> You know if we ever do email notifications we could definitely pipe memoserv into that...
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22:13:31 <Mic2> clokep_work: hooking memoserv into notifications sounds awesome. I might even start using it then ;)
22:13:58 <clokep_work> I use it at work to tell myself things at home. ;)
22:14:15 <Mic2> I use emails for that ;)
22:14:31 <clokep_work> I don't want to email my home email from my work email. ;)
22:14:53 <clokep_work> I'm gonna go though. I'll be back in a couple hours
22:14:59 <Mic2> To keep your home email private under all circumstances?
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22:15:10 <Mic2> have a nice day
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23:14:04 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org added attachment 544 to bug 698.
23:14:06 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=698 nor, --, ---, florian, ASSI, Provide a way to merge contacts
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