#instantbird log on 02 25 2011

All times are UTC.

00:04:36 <clokep> :)
00:09:41 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org added attachment 541 to bug 698.
00:09:43 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=698 nor, --, ---, florian, ASSI, Provide a way to merge contacts
00:11:22 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org added attachment 542 to bug 698.
00:12:15 <flo> I think this first part is pushable without causing painful regressions (except for the unexpected ones of course :)).
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00:19:23 <clokep> Hahah.
00:19:30 <clokep> I'd like contact support. :)
00:19:45 <flo> you mean you want it tomorrow?
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00:23:19 <flo> at this point it's just a way to reduce the clutter in one's buddy list. It doesn't do anything useful w.r.t. conversations
00:24:28 <clokep> Right.
00:24:32 <clokep> I have a big buddy list. :)
00:25:39 <flo> I'm not sure how we can make a discoverable UI for it
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00:29:01 <flo> are contacts worth another alpha as soon as they have a correct UI? :)
00:29:38 <clokep> I think it would depend if anything else is done yet?
00:29:55 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/9afcfbd70e11 - Florian Quèze - Bug 698 - provide a way to merge buddies into contacts, part1: back-end and minimal UI.
00:31:59 <flo> I'm not sure of how much work we have left on twitter to claim we offer a decent UI for it :)
00:32:52 <clokep> Hmm....it works OK for me so far. ;)
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00:34:00 <flo> good night! :)
00:34:20 * sonny playing with spectrum, very nice
00:34:23 <sonny> flo, good night :)
00:35:27 <clokep> 'night.
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00:36:19 <clokep> What's spectrum?
00:36:34 <flo> clokep: http://spectrum.im/projects/spectrum/wiki
00:36:58 <clokep> Interesting.
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00:38:29 <sonny> best XMPP gateway ever
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00:39:07 <clokep> I've never had a use case for XMPP gateways.
00:39:59 <sonny> clokep, not needed on a multi-protocole client ;-)
00:40:20 <clokep> Haha, of course. :) What do people use them for though? Multi-protocol clients are very prevalent.
00:46:53 <clokep> Is it just to get past firewalls kind of?
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09:33:48 <Mic> Hello
09:34:37 <mepine> hello
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13:22:41 <clokep_work> Hello.
13:23:07 <Mic> hi
13:23:41 * clokep_work started work on CTCP commands last night.
13:24:11 * Mic can't access all his usual stuff because hsi computer crashed a week ago :S
13:24:28 <clokep_work> Oh no. :( Did you lose it or just waiting for it to be fixed?
13:24:57 <Mic> Waiting for my money to fix it myself ;)
13:25:06 <Mic> *to be able to
13:26:18 <clokep_work> Haha, well at least it's fixable. :) Hopefully you have money soon.
13:26:29 <Mic> I hope it's fixable ;)
13:27:11 <Mic> Working on a pretty new laptop at the moment, so it's not that bad :D
13:27:20 <Mic> I like the window previews on Windows 7
13:27:45 <clokep_work> Yes, it's convenient. :) I just don't like when IE/Fx does it on a per tab basis.
13:28:17 <Mic> Works well with two or three tabs but not more
13:28:26 <Mic> I tried it and changed back
13:29:31 <Mic> I'm trying to build my first js component and it seems I suck at it
13:30:15 <clokep_work> Want me to take a look at it?
13:30:39 <Mic> No, not yet
13:30:50 <Mic> I haven't tried all the things I wanted yet
13:31:04 <Mic> I'll ask when I run out of ideas
13:31:09 <clokep_work> I always just mess up the registration parts, :(
13:33:18 <Mic> It's listed in Components.classes
13:33:22 <Mic> That's good I guess?
13:35:38 <clokep_work> Haha, yes that's good.
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13:51:08 <Mic> Found the problem :)
13:52:07 <Mic> I moved the manifest file to another folder and .. the paths in there are relative.
13:52:16 <clokep_work> Ah, that would do it.
13:52:26 <clokep_work> The manfiest is always what does it. :(
13:54:08 <clokep_work> Is this the text to speech stuff or something new?
13:55:08 <Mic> No, that's on my broken computer
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13:56:24 <Mic> It's a buddy name autocomplete provider
13:56:35 <Mic> It should match input to buddy names and offer suggestions
13:57:05 <Mic> It doesn't fetch the buddies yet but it worked with hardcoded values for the first time a moment ago
13:57:11 <clokep_work> Ah, that could be handy.
13:57:28 <clokep_work> Fetch buddies from the buddy list or the participants or?
13:57:41 <Mic> The buddy list for now
14:01:12 <clokep_work> Cool. What's the use case?
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14:03:37 <Mic> No idea ;)
14:04:07 <Mic> Well, not quite. I think of extending the join chat extension
14:04:36 <Mic> You might get a panel with a text box and you can quickly open a new conversation by typing a few letters of the buddy name
14:05:57 <clokep_work> "join chat extension"?
14:06:07 <clokep_work> I thought that just let you double click the tab strip to join chats?
14:07:09 <Mic> yes, so far
14:07:24 <Mic> Maybe I need to rename it then
14:07:27 <Mic> ;)
14:07:43 <clokep_work> Mic: I'm guessing you've seen the discussion in bug 630 (since you're CC'd). ;)
14:07:46 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=630 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Unable to send an IM to someone not on your buddy list
14:11:30 <Mic> I haven't followed it closely, will catch up on it later
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14:16:28 <clokep_work> The mock ups are pretty nice in it. :) I really like the opening a tab to open a conversation.
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15:55:02 <flo> Hello :)
15:55:11 <clokep_work> Hi.
15:57:33 <flo> no major unexpected regression from the merge contact landing? :)
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15:58:22 * clokep_work hasn't used it yet.
15:58:32 <clokep_work> But deOmega hasn't popped in yet. ;)
15:59:01 <flo> ahah
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16:12:01 <clokep_work> Working on more of the UI or on to something else? It'l be awesome when I can have one conversation split over multiple protocols.
16:12:31 <flo> I'm working on the UI on the buddy list
16:12:55 <clokep_work> Ah, being able to access a Contact's buddies and such? Sounds painful. :-X
16:13:11 <flo> it would have been nice to create the UI for tags at the same time, but I'm not sure anymore that we will have that in 0.3
16:13:18 <flo> adding a tag is trivial
16:13:40 <flo> but removing one is something I don't know how to do, especially when the protocol plugin is not able to move the buddy on the server
16:14:21 <clokep_work> Are tags used to move buddies on the server? I thought they were an Instantbird only thing?
16:15:05 <flo> each accountBuddy has a tag, which represents the group the buddy is in on the server stored list
16:15:38 <flo> and the contact (which contains buddies which contain accountBuddies) inherits all the tags from the account buddies + has a list of Instantbird-only tags.
16:16:25 <clokep_work> Ah, I see.
16:16:40 <clokep_work> So what happens if you want to delete the accountBuddy tag is your question?
16:17:18 <flo> when we remove a tag from a contact, if it's a local tag it's trivial. If it's a tag inherited from an account buddy, we need to move that buddy to a different group (which should be chosen among the tags the contact already has)
16:18:09 <clokep_work> Eek.
16:18:26 <flo> clokep_work: my exact problem is: what do we do if libpurple accepts to move the buddy into a different group but fails to update it on the server, and at the next login it receives the server list with the old group, and moves the buddy back into that old tag
16:18:53 <flo> (Facebook's list is not editable from the XMPP gateway for example)
16:18:56 <clokep_work> Throw an error? :-D
16:19:15 <clokep_work> In that case, can you not allow the tag to be removed?
16:19:20 <flo> at the next login? Isn't that a bit late? How do we even know it's an error?
16:19:32 <clokep_work> Does libpurple report that failure?
16:19:53 <flo> not sure.
16:20:21 <flo> I also hate what happens on MSN. (when libpurple is asked to move a buddy on MSN, it actually copies it to the new tag and keep it in the old tag too)
16:21:45 <clokep_work> Bah, is that an MSN bug or a libpurple bug? Did we check pidgin's bug tracker for it?
16:22:03 <flo> the only solution I currently see to be able to pretend things work is to add a list of tags the user does not want to ever see again on each contact. That's so hackish that I don't want to implement it without thinking about it for a few months to be sure I don't find something better :-D.
16:22:31 <flo> clokep_work: libpurple is currently not able to add any new contact on MSN, so I guess moving badly is not that big of an issue ;)
16:23:10 <clokep_work> Hahha, right. :)
16:23:15 <flo> I don't know if I've checked the bug tracker. I would like to try to reproduce in Pidgin before claiming too loudly that it's a libpurple issue
16:23:17 <clokep_work> I mean, who really uses MSN anyway? ;)
16:23:45 <flo> I suspect the "good" solution to my problem is to reimplement facebook with the OAuth API, and MSN in JS.
16:25:24 <clokep_work> With the OAuth API or just making the JSON calls to the end points?
16:25:50 <flo> I don't understand the question
16:27:27 <clokep_work> For Facebook, I think you can just call the actual URLs, but not use OAuth (just get a cookie after "logging in") OR you can use the OAuth / official APIs I guess? I didn't think they supported chat over OAuth.
16:27:56 <clokep_work> But I haven't really looked at it.
16:28:44 <flo> by actual URLs, do you mean reverse engineering the website, or is there an HTTP API for chat?
16:38:09 <flo> wasn't there a bug and a patch somewhere to display the status message inside the buddy item in the buddy list?
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16:49:54 <flo> I wish I knew better how to do a XUL markup that behaves like I want when resizing :(
16:56:53 <clokep_work> bug and patch for status message in the buddy list? Isn't it there already?
16:57:28 <clokep_work> For "actual URLs" I mean this: http://imfreedom.org/wiki/Facebook like what you did with Omegle.
16:57:50 <clokep_work> I only know the one way to do it with the standard xul attribute.
16:58:48 <flo> clokep_work: status message of each buddy
16:59:20 <flo> I would like to have for each buddy: (in black)<Display name> - (grey text)<status message>
16:59:44 <clokep_work> Oh, Mic showed some demos w/ that.
17:00:20 <flo> and I can't find a way to crop the status messages without cropping the display name, and still crop the display name when there isn't enough space for it
17:01:54 <clokep_work> bug 225 :)
17:01:57 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=225 enh, --, 0.2, nobody, NEW, Display more information in the buddy list
17:03:13 <flo> thanks
17:06:34 <clokep_work> There's also a https://wiki.instantbird.org/File:BuddyEnhanced.png which isn't linked in there btw. ;)
17:07:17 <clokep_work> But in terms of your resizing issue, I hvae no idea. :( Ask in #developers?
17:12:10 <clokep_work> I'm guessing the WIP in that patch doesn't even come close to applying anymore.
17:12:34 <flo> yeah, and it isn't all that interesting in what it does
17:15:15 <flo> bah, I just got it working :-D
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17:15:37 <clokep_work> Congrats. :)
17:15:48 <flo> the way to make it work: 1. Give up (after trying lots of things). 2. Type some broken code. 3. Notice it does the exact opposite of what you want. 4. Reverse it.
17:16:32 <flo> I'm not sure we can apply that method successfully all the time though :-D
17:17:24 <clokep_work> Hahaha. Awesome. :)
17:18:46 <flo> it clearly shows I didn't understand the meaning of the flex attribute before.
17:19:05 <flo> I thought the higher the value, the more space it would get.
17:19:43 <flo> but it's just the higher the value, the more flexible (so more space if some useless space exists, or more cropped if space is missing)
17:21:13 <clokep_work> I assumed it meant the higher the value the more space it got also. :(
17:21:36 <flo> so we both learnt something! :)
17:21:57 <flo> I would not be surprised if what we thought was what's documented ;)
17:24:09 <clokep_work> Yup! :-D Although I try to stay away from UI. ;)
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17:27:04 <clokep_work> I'm pretty sure it is actually. :-/
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17:36:43 <clokep_work> Or that's at least how one of the tutorials presents it?
17:38:54 <flo> I remember it took me quite a bit of time to understand that "crop" only does something if "flex" is there too.
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17:42:10 <clokep_work> There's a bunch of kind of weird relationships like that.
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17:57:21 <clokep_work> So interestingly enough Microsoft Office Communicator doesn't work with SIP/SIMPLE directly, it has a modified version...someone made a pidgin plug-in for it, might try to compile it for Ib.
17:58:32 <clokep_work> I noticied in the upgrade libpurple thing it destroys the libjingle library in Pidgin, do we not use that?
18:08:07 <flo> it's only for voice and video
18:09:40 <clokep_work> Ah, OK. :)
18:09:49 <clokep_work> We have a bug on that. ;)
18:09:52 <clokep_work> (I filed it. :P)
18:11:57 <flo> I'm not sure we want to implement it through libpurple
18:12:17 <flo> their stuff currently works only on Linux on XMPP.
18:12:23 <clokep_work> I actually filed it with information on that Mozilla labs experiment that supports voice/video.
18:12:33 <clokep_work> Yeah, I know. That's pretty lame IMO.
18:12:35 <flo> :)
18:13:02 <flo> I'm not going to give my opinion on it. You can guess ;).
18:13:46 <clokep_work> That libpurple needs a rewrite? :P
18:37:21 <clokep_work> flo: Did you ever hear from that person at FOSDEM about a contact at Skype?
18:37:55 <flo> he tried to ping a few people and hasn't received any reply (yet)
18:40:12 <clokep_work> Oh OK.
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21:40:15 <clokep> Hi. :)
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21:53:59 <clokep> flo...I think I found a bug in your contact stuff. :(
21:54:58 <clokep> Just dragged my friend's gmail account from "Buddies" group onto his AIM account under "School Buddies" group and they merged...(I think?) but now his AIM account shows up in both places.
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22:22:56 <clokep> Or maybe that's how it's supposed to work? It adds it at both tag locations?
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22:38:17 <flo> clokep: they are a single contact, which has all the tags of all buddies included
22:40:26 <clokep> OK, so it'll appear in all the "groups" which are also tags?
22:41:27 <flo> a group is a tag of an account buddy.
22:43:50 <clokep> Got it.
22:44:08 <clokep> So to make them appaer in only one group I'd have to remove one tag / rename the tags...which can't be done in the current UI? :)
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22:47:45 <flo> clokep: I think the "move" command (from the context menu) will remove the tag
22:48:03 <clokep> OK.
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22:49:17 <flo> right. When you move a contact, it replaces the from group in all account buddies that have it by the to group.
22:49:57 <flo> well... this feature is already broken (in the cases we discussed earlier today), so maybe we can expose it with the tag ui without adding more brokenness :-S
22:51:58 <clokep> Bah I'm only getting like half of your meessages. ;_/
22:52:11 <clokep> :-/
22:52:23 <clokep> But yeah some sort of UI would be good. :-D
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22:57:59 <flo> which half is lost?
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23:03:19 <clokep> Most of the incoming messages I haven't been getting.
23:03:32 <clokep> I'm guessing it's my connection though. :-/
23:05:35 <flo> ah, I thought you meant what I said wasn't clear enough
23:05:53 <flo> so you see the messages in the instantbot log only?
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23:08:52 <clokep> Yes in the log only. :(
23:09:00 <clokep> So I'm refreshing it every few minutes.
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23:46:58 <hicham> http://assiste.com.free.fr/p/virus/virus_pebcak_pelcec.html
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23:52:02 <flo> Good night
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