#instantbird log on 02 23 2011

All times are UTC.

00:02:40 <flo> clokep: by the way, weren't you using a complicated query to list open bugs? https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=OPEN works ;)
00:09:23 * clokep just uses the link at the bottom of his page
00:09:30 <clokep> But thank you. :)
00:13:04 <flo> I use the address bar in Firefox, with search keywords
00:13:17 <flo> "ib OPEN" "ib sw:0.3", ... ;)
00:13:28 <clokep> I use bio as my keyword.
00:13:35 <clokep> ib searches lxr
00:13:40 <clokep> ibf searches lxr with file names.
00:13:57 <clokep> wio searches the wiki. ;) Idk if I have others.
00:14:13 <flo> I have b -> bmo, ib -> bio, lxr -> lio, mxr -> mxr (mozilla-central), cxr -> mxr (comm-central)
00:14:25 <flo> file -> mxr (mozilla-central, file names)
00:15:10 <flo> I also have idl -> text of idl files on mozilla-central (but for some reason I haven't completely figured out yet, the query doesn't give the results I expect)
00:15:50 <clokep> :(
00:15:52 <flo> I also have "hg" to query something in our hg repository :)
00:16:08 <clokep> I use mc mcf, cc and ccf as mozilla-central and file, and comm-central and file.
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00:16:25 <flo> makes sense :)
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00:17:15 <flo> is there a reason you use mibbit at work?
00:18:16 <clokep> We use Windows Communicator, I didn't feel like installing another IM client.
00:18:44 <clokep> Unless Instantbird does SIP?
00:18:56 <clokep> (I think that's what Windows Communicator does?)
00:19:24 <flo> isn't that a modified version of MSN?
00:19:47 <clokep> Windows Communicator? Idk, it works with our corporate address book and stuff though.
00:19:48 <flo> Instantbird does SIP, it's the "SIMPLE" protocol in the list
00:20:38 <clokep> Maybe I'll give it a try then. ;)
00:20:48 <flo> I've never tried it
00:21:38 <clokep> I noticed that the skin for bonjour, meanwhile, silc and zephyr (which 3 of those I've never heard of) are commented out, what's w/ that?
00:22:21 <flo> I think we removed these protocol plugins for 0.1.2
00:22:38 <clokep> Ah OK, they're standard libpurple though?
00:22:43 <flo> If I remember well, they all depend on external dll files
00:22:50 <flo> yes, they are part of libpurple
00:23:07 <clokep> Ohhhh, I see.
00:23:40 <flo> I wasn't in the mood of packaging these dll files/make the build system build them at the time.
00:23:45 <flo> and then we forgot about them
00:23:57 <clokep> Ah, I see.
00:24:26 <flo> I think the dll for bonjour is closed source and (C) Apple.
00:24:50 <flo> If I understood correctly, zephyr only exists inside MIT
00:24:54 <clokep> Probably. It's probably on Mac's automagically though?
00:25:03 <clokep> Zephyr is used at MIT and I think Stanford and that's it hah.
00:25:14 <clokep> And those networks are slowly being replaced w/ IRC/XMPP.
00:25:18 <flo> (so almost as useless as Netsoul ;))
00:26:15 <flo> netsoul exists only inside the french engineering school Even and myself (and a few others sometimes here) studied at
00:26:45 <instantbot> New purplexpcom - General bug 714 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
00:26:46 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=714 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Show "Signed on since" in tooltips for AIM
00:27:02 <clokep> Ah, I see. So we won't worry about zephyr until a random MIT students want it.
00:27:13 <flo> and implements it
00:27:43 <flo> for netsoul the best thing would probably be to reimplement it in JS (it's a trivial text based protocol) and put it on the add-ons website
00:28:09 <clokep> Ah, I see.
00:28:34 <clokep> Should there be a "Twitter" component for purplexpcom? ;)
00:28:39 <instantbot> New purplexpcom - General bug 715 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
00:28:41 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=715 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add supports for tooltips in jsProtoHelper
00:29:01 <clokep> What was that third bug you wanted me to file? One about showing when a user wa slast signed on?
00:29:06 <clokep> Or was that part of the OSCAR one.
00:29:25 <flo> I remember only 2
00:29:40 <clokep> OK. :)
00:33:12 <clokep> I didn't even realize tooltips weren't done in jsProtoHelper yet.
00:33:12 <flo> hmm. I should probably already be asleep.
00:33:34 <flo> there's also "  accountExists: function() false, //FIXME" ;)
00:35:26 <clokep> Psh we don't file bugs for FIXMEs ;)
00:37:25 <flo> right, we have too many of them (http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/search?string=FIXME)
00:38:45 <flo> Good night! :)
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03:04:09 * clokep wants to shoot the people who wrote the CTCP spec.
03:05:22 <Mathnerd314> really? I have a gun...
03:08:37 <clokep> It's pretty awful.
03:08:44 <clokep> It's also multiple protocols within another protocol.
03:09:54 <clokep> I'll figure it out eventually. ;)
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03:22:55 <Mathnerd314> hmm, I guess the internet isn't as full of raging homicidal maniacs as I expected it to be...
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03:24:26 <clokep> Well the kicker is that it isn't standardized. :-X
03:26:44 * Mook tries to figure out what a standardized raging homicidal maniac would be
03:27:09 <Mathnerd314> http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/rfc/ctcpspec.html seems rather clear
03:27:18 <Mook> oh, dear, ctcp
03:27:40 <Mook> (I haven't touched it myself, but I've been around when Silver was trying to explain some of it...)
03:29:16 <Mathnerd314> or maybe http://www.kvirc.de/docu/doc_ctcp_handling.html
03:30:34 <clokep> The newest spec is actually on a site that seems to be done.
03:30:43 <clokep> But it's here: http://hg.instantbird.org/experiments/raw-file/6e7fccec42e0/doc/ctcp.html
03:30:51 <clokep> It's not /that/ bad.
03:30:56 <clokep> It's just another layer of parsing.
03:31:05 <clokep> So I have to go, oh we got a PRIVMSG? OK, cool.
03:31:11 <clokep> Is it a standard message or a CTCP message?
03:31:14 <clokep> OK, now parse that.
03:33:42 <clokep> I'll probably just make a ctcpParser object though and gthen call it. ;)
03:34:27 <Mook> ah, yeah, I remember now - it was in the file transfer resume bug
03:34:50 <clokep> Yes, the DCC part I'm not looking forward to.
03:36:11 <Mathnerd314> what about SASL?
03:36:20 <clokep> I'm not familiar with that.
03:36:23 <clokep> What is it?
03:37:49 <clokep> Hmm...I found it.
03:37:53 <clokep> Is there a real spec for it?
03:38:35 <Mook> huh, how does SASL and CTCP intersect?
03:39:14 <clokep> Not at all.
03:40:54 <clokep> I'll add it to my list of docs though.
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03:50:02 <clokep> Found another spec too -- IRC Capabilities. :(
03:50:06 <clokep> So many extensions!
03:50:07 <clokep> Blah.
03:50:09 <clokep> Goodnight.
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11:53:19 <Sertion> Hi
11:54:08 <Sertion> I'm trying to figure out how this all works, and I think I'm almost done, but one thing confuses me.
11:55:18 <Sertion> blist.xul calls gBuddyListContextMenu.something many times, but in blist.js it's declared as null, but at the same time there is a BuddyListContextMenu object
11:55:41 <Sertion> where does that g come from?
11:55:45 <Sertion> Is it the same thing?
12:05:14 <Sertion> I have to go now, but I'll look in the log later. Thanks in advance!
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12:43:40 <clokep_work> Sertion: The g just means it's a global variable.
12:44:23 <clokep_work> I'd guess that on load gBuddyListContextMenu instantiates a new BuddyListContextMenu object, but I'm not positive without checking the code.
12:44:31 <clokep_work> Which I'll do in a bit. :)
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13:31:14 <Mic2> clokep_work: you were right on Sertion's question
13:31:21 <Mic2> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content/blist.xul#70
13:32:03 <clokep_work> Yay. :) Awkward place for that code though.
13:32:28 <Mic2> hmm? It's created anew each time the context menu opens..
13:34:32 <clokep_work> Oh, I see.
13:39:05 * clokep_work just found like 6 other IRC extensions he'll now want to implement.
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13:41:19 <Mic> Which ones?
13:41:28 <clokep_work> IRC Whiteboard
13:41:32 <clokep_work> DCC2
13:41:38 <clokep_work> Turbo DCC
13:41:46 <clokep_work> I have to check if /how much they're used first.
13:41:52 <clokep_work> There's also XDCC? But I don't think that's used anymore
13:48:46 <Mic> Couldn't find DCC2 on the german wikipedia, so i guess it's not notable? ;)
13:49:15 <clokep_work> Mic: http://www.dcc2.org/
13:49:25 <clokep_work> I think it's more of "no one uses this, but it'd be good to actually have a standard" :)
13:49:34 * clokep_work might email them or whatever.
13:50:39 <Mic> hmm, are you planning to support file sending and receiving via dcc anytime soon?
13:50:52 <clokep_work> Not until Instantbird does.
13:51:59 <Mic> Yes, I think the users should see no difference between sending files on different services
13:52:12 <Mic> so I guess we need a file transfer API first ..
13:52:49 <clokep_work> Exactly! And I know flo wants a back up before enabling stuff (i.e. an HTTP version)...we'll need it eventually.
13:52:52 <Mic> I had a look at the Fx download manager code, to see if it would be possible to hook other download sources into it
13:52:57 <clokep_work> That might not be a 0.3 feature though. ;)
13:53:43 <Mic> I'm not sure that it is really feasible though
13:54:17 <clokep_work> I think it might be good to have it just in the conversation, you get a request you click "Accept" and then a download bar appears and start downloading...but you'll still need a way to access those later I guess.
13:54:22 <clokep_work> (i.e. the DL manager)
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13:56:18 <Mic> I'd like to have a whiteboard btw.. can be useful sometimes
13:56:46 <clokep_work> Mic: http://www.visualirc.net/tech-wboard.php ;)
13:56:54 <clokep_work> We'd need a Whiteboard API though.
13:56:58 <clokep_work> XMPP also supports a whiteboard.
13:57:04 <clokep_work> Should be easy enough w/ SVG?
13:57:25 <Mic> Or canvas..
14:00:37 <clokep_work> Oh right, forgot about that. :)
14:02:15 <clokep_work> Now /that/ would be a good student project.
14:02:27 <Mic> hmm, Fx's tab preview on Windows 7 is cool if you don't have too many tabs opened :)
14:03:06 <Mic> I wonder how you provide the images for this .. maybe we could have somethign similar, with the user name in a large font and the last message displayed there?
14:03:39 <Mic> A single bubble with the last message filling the preview area?
14:03:46 <clokep_work> Mic: I believe you just provide an image, so we can do whatever.
14:03:53 <clokep_work> You can also put media keys on the bottom, etc.
14:04:34 <clokep_work> ./s/keys/buttons
14:04:38 <Mic> An input box and a send button maybe?
14:05:01 <Mic> I think this could be a nice toy ;)
14:05:08 <clokep_work> I'm not sure we can do that, but that would be awesome. :)
14:05:18 <clokep_work> There's an MSDN article about it somewhere obviously haha.
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14:08:44 <Mic> hmm, the whiteboard thing sounds like a good project indeed, you have a bit of everything. UI integration, canvas stuff, interacting with some APIs, ..
14:10:34 <clokep_work> Bah found another one -- IRCX http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-pfenning-irc-extensions-04
14:11:07 <clokep_work> (Microsoft IRC extension! Interesting.)
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14:44:47 <clokep_work> So there's DCC, updated to become CTCP, then there's like a slightly updated CTCP that doesn't have a different name, a partial draft for CTCP/2, then there's Turbo DCC, eXtended DCC and finally DCC2.
14:44:49 <clokep_work> All of which do the same thing.
14:44:53 <clokep_work> And are mostly the same.
14:47:48 <Mic> That doesn't really sound like fun
14:48:15 * clokep_work should make an Instantbird-DCC-special-uber-awesome file transfer for IRC. ;)
14:48:42 <clokep_work> No, it won't be fun.
14:48:47 <clokep_work> I think they're all compatible though?
14:49:13 <clokep_work> Like Turbo DCC does a special thing where you tell it "T" for the size and it won't throttle the connection and that's the only thing it does.
14:49:18 <clokep_work> And CTCP replaces DCC.
14:49:34 <clokep_work> DCC2 is totally separate actually, the commands start w/ DCC2.
14:49:54 <clokep_work> So it's really the CTCP/updated CTCP/CTCP2 I need to figure out.
14:52:08 <Mic> Is there a reason why one might want the one but not the other extension?
14:52:49 <clokep_work> Compatibility with other clients.
14:53:10 <Mic> but in general it's 'the more the better'?
14:53:29 <clokep_work> Yes.
14:53:55 <clokep_work> DCC2 is actually a big deal, it adds SSL/TLS encryption and such.
14:54:55 <Mic> hmm
14:55:19 <clokep_work> But DCC2 isn't finalized so I definitely won't be implementing that one. ;)
14:55:38 <clokep_work> It's the same question I had w/ IRC in general, do I do /just/ the newer version or try to do both.
14:55:48 <clokep_work> I went w/ just the newer since it should be mostly backward compatible.
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14:57:47 <clokep_work> I'll only worry about CTCP and it's first update right now, so I can get action messages working.
14:57:54 <clokep_work> (And maybe bold and colors. ;))
15:03:18 <clokep_work> I think my architecture will be to make a few parsers that either pass back true or false after each, and placed in the proper order it should handle allowing only certain subsets.
15:03:49 <clokep_work> And it can optionally pass back an "unparsed" message part.
15:04:48 <Mic> So you go through the parsers until you find one that matches?
15:05:10 <clokep_work> Yes.
15:05:42 <clokep_work> So it'd be (for example if I wanted all of them...) CTCP2 --> CTCP --> DCC --> RFC 2412 (I think that's the number?) --> RFC 1493
15:05:49 <clokep_work> Although I wouldn't implement them all separately.
15:06:10 <clokep_work> (The two RFCs are practically the same, the second just cleans it up and adds a few features.)
15:08:26 <clokep_work> And say CTCP has an IRC message encapsulated (which I think can happen?)
15:08:48 <clokep_work> Then CTCP returns true w/ an unparsed message, then message then goes back up to the top of the chain and starts over.
15:10:48 <Mic> ah, ok
15:12:57 <clokep_work> Does that make sense at least?
15:13:02 <clokep_work> (I want to make sure it doesn't sound totally crazy.)
15:17:16 <Mic> I know too little about it to give a good comment here
15:22:20 <clokep_work> OK. :)
15:25:34 <Mic> If there are no ambiguities for parsing then I can imagine that it's a good way to do it
15:25:55 <clokep_work> What do you mean by ambiguities? Like if it could be either type of message?
15:27:23 <Mic> That it needs to be clear which parser has to be used
15:28:51 <Mic> hmm .
15:29:47 <Mic> Scratch that for now .. 
15:30:01 <Mic> I guess flo would give better comments on this anyways
15:30:50 <clokep_work> Yeah, maybe he'll be on later.
15:36:42 <Mic> bye
15:36:44 <clokep_work> Or I can just do it and let me fail review 15 times. :)
15:36:49 <clokep_work> Bye.
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22:35:39 <flo> Good evening :)
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22:36:57 <flo> any progress on the raging homicidal maniac standardization process? :)
22:39:58 <Mathnerd314> I'd guess no, because there aren't many around
22:40:15 <Mathnerd314> and they aren't very receptive to questioning
22:41:24 <Mathnerd314> but I haven't met many, so I wouldn't know :-)
22:42:45 <flo> I hope you won't have to meet many ;)
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22:52:25 <clokep> Hey flo. :)
22:53:04 <clokep> No, I haven't killed anyone yet. :) Wanted to though.
22:53:38 <clokep> Coming close though.
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23:09:01 <instantbot> albin.jacobsson@gmail.com added attachment 535 to bug 616.
23:09:02 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=616 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Input box styling regression from 30e06bddc097
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