#instantbird log on 02 22 2011

All times are UTC.

00:47:44 --> clokep_js has joined #instantbird
00:47:54 <-- clokep has left #instantbird ()
00:48:11 --> clokep has joined #instantbird
00:48:11 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 
00:49:10 <-- clokep_js has left #instantbird ()
00:49:29 <-- clokep has left #instantbird ()
00:49:44 --> clokep has joined #instantbird
00:49:44 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 
00:50:02 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a2pre)
00:50:13 --> clokep has joined #instantbird
00:50:13 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 
00:55:15 <-- clokep has left #instantbird ()
00:55:26 --> clokep_js has joined #instantbird
00:55:40 --> clokep has joined #instantbird
00:55:40 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 
01:03:16 <-- clokep_js has left #instantbird ()
01:06:30 --> clokep_js has joined #instantbird
01:06:38 <-- clokep has left #instantbird ()
01:06:46 --> clokep has joined #instantbird
01:06:46 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 
01:07:03 <-- clokep_js has left #instantbird ()
01:37:06 --> Mathnerd314 has joined #instantbird
02:37:20 <-- DetroitLibertyPenguin has quit (Ping timeout)
02:38:39 --> DetroitLibertyPenguin has joined #instantbird
02:45:05 --> tymerkaev has joined #instantbird
02:46:48 --> mepine has joined #instantbird
02:56:33 <-- GeekShadow has quit (Quit: The cake is a lie !)
03:16:22 <-- tymerkaev has quit (Ping timeout)
03:22:47 --> Mook has joined #instantbird
03:35:19 <-- mepine has quit (Ping timeout)
03:35:46 <-- Wolfy|Sajber has quit (Connection reset by peer)
03:38:43 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a2pre)
04:15:43 <-- hicham has quit (Client exited)
04:23:35 --> tymerkaev_away has joined #instantbird
05:00:00 * tymerkaev_away is now known as tymerkaev
05:23:08 <-- tymerkaev has quit (Ping timeout)
06:22:32 <-- rikki has quit (Ping timeout)
06:30:38 --> rikki has joined #instantbird
07:22:01 --> yoh has joined #instantbird
08:00:19 * auscompgeek is now known as unstable
08:02:02 * unstable is now known as auscopgeek
08:02:08 * auscopgeek is now known as auscompgeek
08:03:03 <-- Mook has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2/20100222071121])
08:05:29 <-- rikki has quit (Connection reset by peer)
08:16:34 --> Ornthalas has joined #instantbird
08:25:27 --> rikki has joined #instantbird
08:39:34 <-- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout)
08:40:46 <-- Ornthalas has quit (Quit: KTHXBYE)
08:54:48 <-- linuxwizard has left #instantbird ()
09:16:22 --> Even1 has joined #instantbird
09:17:00 <-- Even1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a2pre)
09:17:13 --> Even1 has joined #instantbird
09:21:18 <-- Even1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a2pre)
09:21:27 --> Even1 has joined #instantbird
10:44:17 <-- yoh has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
11:03:07 --> GeekShadow has joined #instantbird
11:14:38 <-- Gizmokid2005 has quit (Ping timeout)
11:16:35 --> Gizmokid2005 has joined #instantbird
11:17:08 --> clokep has joined #instantbird
11:17:08 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 
11:42:54 <-- clokep has quit (Connection timed out)
11:43:10 --> clokep has joined #instantbird
11:43:10 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 
11:47:23 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a2pre)
11:49:30 --> tymerkaev_away has joined #instantbird
11:49:59 * tymerkaev_away is now known as tymerkaev
11:54:17 --> kaie has joined #instantbird
12:00:20 --> Wolfy|Sajber has joined #instantbird
12:04:57 --> yoh has joined #instantbird
12:38:54 --> Mic2 has joined #instantbird
12:39:19 <-- Mic2 has quit (Quit: Mic2)
12:39:32 --> Mic has joined #instantbird
12:39:32 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 
12:39:37 --> clokep_work has joined #instantbird
12:39:38 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep_work 
12:45:01 <clokep_work> Mic: Thanks for the bugs. :) I fixed them all I think.
12:45:07 <clokep_work> I had one question for you though if you have a minute?
12:45:14 <Mic> Go ahead
12:45:38 <clokep_work> You said that when you entered the room, you were then given half op but the UI didn't update. I fixed that.
12:45:44 <clokep_work> You also mentioned that it happened w/ flo?
12:46:03 <clokep_work> Looking at the code it seems like it should work though.
12:47:20 <Mic> Yes, I think so. I'll pay attention next time and see if it happens again
12:47:56 <Mic> Should it work for op in general or should it just work for others (not me)?
12:48:02 <clokep_work> OK. I also worked out the issue with the kick code, that one was just me being dumb. ;)
12:48:22 <clokep_work> Mic: It should work for op in general, halfOp wasn't in there though (I must've missed it).
12:49:05 <Mic> Let's try somewhere else. Can you join #test1234?
12:56:42 --> sonny has joined #instantbird
13:08:42 <clokep_work> Thanks for all the help though. I hope to whip it into shape next weekend and start implementing some of the updates that were released for IRC.
13:19:52 <Mic> Couldn't you use one function for raw and quote btw?
13:20:48 <Mic> Like with query and msg?
13:23:31 <-- DGMurdockIII has quit (Quit: get satisfied! • :: core-networks.de ««« (Gamers.IRC) »»» gamersirc.net ::)
13:23:55 <clokep_work> Mic: Are you looking at the newest check-ins?
13:24:00 <Mic> Yes
13:24:21 <clokep_work> I could, yes. I originally thought it was going to be like a one line statmeent anyway....but then realized it wasn't and never changed it. :(
13:25:58 <Mic> gtg, have a nice day
13:28:20 <clokep_work> Bye.
13:28:36 <clokep_work> (So anyway, that's on my todo list to combine those into a function.)
13:38:04 <-- Mic has left #instantbird ()
15:36:30 <-- yoh has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
16:14:17 <-- sonny has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner])
17:00:05 <-- Even1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a2pre)
17:58:23 <-- Even has quit (Input/output error)
18:32:23 <-- DetroitLibertyPenguin has quit (Ping timeout)
18:36:51 --> DetroitLibertyPenguin has joined #instantbird
19:15:28 <-- DetroitLibertyPenguin has quit (Ping timeout)
19:21:28 --> linuxwizard has joined #instantbird
19:52:25 --> DetroitLibertyPenguin has joined #instantbird
20:36:55 <-- chrisccoulson has quit (Connection reset by peer)
20:38:17 --> chrisccoulson has joined #instantbird
20:42:47 --> DGMurdockIII has joined #instantbird
20:44:24 <DGMurdockIII> hey
20:45:11 <DGMurdockIII> dose anyone now if amsn use it own implmentation of the msn prototcal or use a thirdparty one?
20:45:26 <DGMurdockIII> http://www.amsn-project.net/
20:54:36 <clokep_work> DGMurdockIII: No idea, you figure it out?
20:55:06 <DGMurdockIII> id really like it know
20:55:28 <DGMurdockIII> and if i do i'll let you guys know
20:56:09 <clokep_work> It's all written in tcl?
20:56:14 <-- auscompgeek has quit (Quit: FATAL ERROR: afrosdwish detected)
20:58:17 <DGMurdockIII> aMSN is available for any system that supports Tcl/Tk 8.4 or higher
20:58:25 --> Glards has joined #instantbird
21:00:04 <clokep_work> I'm pretty sure they have their own library.
21:00:40 <clokep_work> Why do you ask? :)
21:03:45 <DGMurdockIII> what ever they use to implement msm i thnk could be nicem to use for instantbird
21:04:59 <clokep_work> DGMurdockIII: Check out http://www.amsn-project.net/wiki/FAQ#I_have_another_question.2C_can_you_help_me.3F They have IRC on freenode.
21:09:15 <-- tymerkaev has quit (Ping timeout)
21:09:59 <DGMurdockIII> i found out it there own implementation
21:16:28 <clokep_work> Ah cool, it'd still need to be shoe horned into the libpurple interfaces + you'd need to see if Tcl/Tk can be used w/ Mozilla?
21:16:59 <DGMurdockIII> papyon
21:17:08 <clokep_work> What?
21:17:10 <DGMurdockIII> they recamened
21:17:17 <DGMurdockIII> recamened
21:17:20 <clokep_work> I'm not familiar with that, what is it?
21:17:27 <clokep_work> (recommend :))
21:17:42 <DGMurdockIII> recommended
21:18:03 <DGMurdockIII> http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Papyon
21:18:35 --> Ornthalas has joined #instantbird
21:18:43 <DGMurdockIII> papyon is the library behind the msn connection manager : telepathy-butterfly. It is a fork of the unmaintained pymsn msn library. papyon uses the glib mainloop to process the network events in an asynchronous manner.
21:21:50 <clokep_work> Interesting.
21:24:08 --> flo has joined #instantbird
21:24:08 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 
21:24:23 <flo> Good evening :)
21:25:02 <clokep_work> Hey flo.
21:25:06 * clokep_work is about to leave.
21:26:01 <flo> it seems your IRC implementation starts to have users? ;)
21:26:14 <flo> or beta testers at least :)
21:27:41 * flo is puzzled by this comment on the blog "Use protocols as extension was a great idea, for sure. But I'm realy worried about how to implement Twitter. I think that maybe better to implement it as in Trillian. No Doubt that the format of the implementation of Twitter in Trillian is the best."
21:28:59 <clokep_work> How does Trillian do it anyway?
21:29:11 <clokep_work> It embeds it in the blist somewhere?
21:29:29 <clokep_work> Yes some beta testers, but seems I gave them a very broken toy. :(
21:30:15 <flo> I just replied "Have you seen that Instantbird 0.3 alpha 1 has twitter support by default? Could you please tell us more about what's worrying you exactly? And maybe about what's different in the way Trillian handles twitter?"
21:31:24 <flo> clokep_work: if it worked perfectly the first time with absolutely no visible difference from the libpurple implementation, playing with the toy would have been no fun ;)
21:32:14 <clokep_work> Hahah, true. :)
21:32:20 <clokep_work> OK I need to go home.
21:32:22 <clokep_work> Bye.
21:32:24 <-- clokep_work has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
21:41:19 <DGMurdockIII> 2(flo2): i thnk digsby handles twitter better than trillian
21:42:10 <DGMurdockIII> can you post twitter message from instantbird once you have twitter set up
21:42:19 <flo> of course
21:42:53 <flo> I don't know neither what digsby does nor what trillian does for twitter by the way
22:18:06 <sabret00the__> Why is there such emphasis on twitter integration. Stats show that IM clients are in the vast minority of clients used
22:21:34 <flo> sabret00the__: what's your question exactly?
22:21:50 <flo> and which stats are you referring to? :)
22:25:10 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org denied review for attachment 531 on bug 710.
22:25:12 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=710 enh, --, ---, albin.jacobsson, ASSI, Dark variant of the Simple skin
22:25:59 <flo> I'm afraid I bikeshedded in that bug even more than Mic did. :-S
22:30:38 <sabret00the__> flo: http://www.twitstat.com/twitterclientusers.html
22:30:41 <sabret00the__> brb
22:30:46 <-- sabret00the__ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
22:30:56 --> sabret00the has joined #instantbird
22:32:29 --> Mathnerd314 has joined #instantbird
22:36:25 <flo> sabret00the: what do these stats indicate exactly?
22:37:16 <sabret00the> That users generally have a dedicated client for using twitter outside of their instant messengers
22:37:26 <flo> "users" = ?
22:37:43 <flo> the method to collect the data seems very obscure or unreliable
22:37:59 <flo> which users are these stats about?
22:40:20 <flo> I may be wrong, but it seems to me that these stats are about the other clients used by people using a specific ("twitstat") client.
22:42:58 <sabret00the> as far i know, it's got nothing to do with who uses twitstat, but it's a fair question nonetheless
22:44:04 <flo> it says "Twitter client usage for all accounts tracked by @twitstat." and "Twitter Client used of tweets tracked by @twitstat, based on 2867 unique user/client combinations. If someone uses multiple clients, they will all be counted."
22:47:18 <instantbot> albin.jacobsson@gmail.com added attachment 533 to bug 710.
22:47:20 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=710 enh, --, ---, albin.jacobsson, ASSI, Dark variant of the Simple skin
22:50:32 <-- DGMurdockIII has quit (Quit: get satisfied! • :: core-networks.de ««« (Gamers.IRC) »»» gamersirc.net ::)
22:56:19 <-- Glards has quit (Quit: leaving)
23:06:09 --> clokep has joined #instantbird
23:06:09 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 
23:06:18 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org added attachment 534 to bug 699.
23:06:19 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=699 nor, --, ---, florian, ASSI, [Mac only] Conversation tabs no longer have a close icon
23:09:28 <-- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout)
23:11:09 <clokep> I actually thought the majority of Twitter users used the website or texting, but I don't think Twitter has ever released offiicial stats and...using a subset of 2867 users is certainly not thorough.
23:12:07 <flo> clokep: it's 2867 users/client relations. So even less users.
23:12:24 <clokep> Hah, either way it's bad. :)
23:12:26 <flo> and the stats are based on the number of messages. So you get a list of the most spammy twitter clients :)
23:15:04 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 710 to FIXED.
23:15:06 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=710 enh, --, 0.3a2, albin.jacobsson, RESO FIXED, Dark variant of the Simple skin
23:15:50 --> hicham has joined #instantbird
23:16:04 <flo> I haven't answered sabret00the's original "Why is there such emphasis on twitter integration." question. It's because I (we?) believe the users who use twitter are also the most likely to help us spread Instantbird through word-of-mouth marketing.
23:17:01 <clokep> There's pretty good traffic on Twitter about Instantbird, usually a few a day at the least. :)
23:17:13 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/fb7ccbb54b64 - Albin Jacobsson - Bug 710 - Dark variant of the Simple skin, r=idechix.
23:17:14 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/a74e6f9487b5 - Florian Quèze - Focus the buddy list richlistbox when loading the blist window so that CSS transitions don't prevent offline buddies from being visible when the window appears.
23:18:49 <flo> clokep: I hope we will have a lot more after 0.3 is released and we officially support twitter in a stable version :)
23:20:17 <clokep> I hope so too. :)
23:20:34 <clokep> flo: Did you reimplement the "raw" command?
23:21:49 <flo> I  don't remember. lxr it? :)
23:22:38 <clokep> I don't think so.
23:23:31 <clokep> No, it is: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/purplexpcom/src/imCommands.js#52
23:23:44 <clokep> I don't think that worked when I tried it. :-/
23:24:13 <clokep> PRIVMSG #instantbird Test!
23:24:23 <clokep> Maybe it's not quite /that/ raw. ;)
23:24:55 <flo> it just bypasses escaping HTML entities
23:25:30 <clokep> Ah OK. :)
23:25:49 <flo> did you expect something different?
23:26:04 <clokep> I couldn't remember exactly what it does.
23:26:14 <clokep> I think the IRC query one is supposed to send the raw command to the server.
23:29:34 <flo> I'm starting to wonder if it wouldn't be better to push my merge-contacts WIP and work on a better merge UI separately.
23:29:57 <clokep> So that we can see if contacts work for more people? ;)
23:30:13 <flo> I don't want to push it as is because it would put in blist.sqlite things that wouldn't be completely compatible with the way I will order them
23:30:46 <flo> but maybe... just implement the backend (without UI) for buddy ordering inside a contact, and then push it
23:32:09 <flo> I started trying to implement a UI for that feature today, and I reached the conclusion that I need to change very significantly buddy.xml
23:35:22 <clokep> Yuck.
23:35:26 <flo> keeping the conversation when the used buddy changes will be interesting too... :) I'll need a conversation object that exposes to the UI an imIContact instead of a purpleIAccountBuddy. But the conversation object the protocol code sees can only contain a purpleIAccountBuddy (it shouldn't have to know anything about contacts).
23:35:57 <clokep> Random question, is my memory correct in that we at one point removed a bunch of stuff that is shown in the tooltips for buddies?
23:37:18 <flo> so there'll probably be a UI-visible conversation object, and a protocol-visible conversation object. And some JS code between them, to swap the protocol conversations when needed. I think that code will have to display some system messages like "... is now talking to you using ...". So maybe we should take the opportunity to put there all the join/left messages too :).
23:37:32 <flo> "a bunch of stuff". Any example you remember?
23:37:55 <flo> We have a bug to cleanup the tooltip and remove a lot of useless/broken/confusing stuff, but it's not fixed.
23:38:40 <clokep> flo: How long AIM users have been signed in.
23:39:20 <clokep> I could /swear/ it used to be there, but it's not anymore?
23:39:46 <flo> it's possible we removed that, yes
23:39:51 <flo> it uses to be hardcoded inside the tooltip
23:40:01 <flo> I thought we moved it into the OSCAR specific code
23:40:33 <clokep> I don't know. I just don't see them. :(
23:40:42 <flo> it's possible I dropped that during the js-blist rewrite
23:41:06 <flo> because that was protocol specific and had nothing to do in the purpleIAccountBuddy interface
23:41:27 <clokep> OK.
23:41:50 <clokep> I thought there was a way for accounts to add random stuff into the tooltip though? As a list of pair:values
23:42:16 <flo> no, not as part of the js-blist commit
23:42:26 <flo> (I'm checking the hg blame)
23:42:58 <flo> sure, there's a way to do that. That's why I dropped that proto-specific value and said it should be handled in the OSCAR code
23:43:09 <clokep> flo: What is http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/purplexpcom/public/purpleITooltipInfo.idl then?
23:43:51 <flo> an item of the list the protocol returns
23:44:05 <flo> each item can be either a key:value pair, a separator, or a section header
23:44:21 <flo> s/key/label/
23:44:58 <clokep> OK.
23:45:08 <clokep> I'll file a bug about it. :)
23:45:32 <flo> about the lost "logged in"? or adding supports for tooltips in jsProtoHelper?
23:45:52 <flo> it currently throws NS_ERROR_NOT_IMPLEMENTED when hovering a buddy from a JS protocol (except if the protocol code handles it)
23:46:24 <clokep> Yeah, those might be good.
23:47:09 <flo> did the plan of fixing the backend of ordering and then pushing the buddy-merge code sound good or too scary?
23:47:47 <clokep> It sounds OK to me, as long as it'll be fixed soon. :)
23:48:00 <clokep> Couldn't users always just rearrange the buddies inside the contact after that gets pushed also?
23:48:44 <flo> the position is an integer
23:49:00 <flo> the code I currently have puts 0 for all position values
23:51:00 <flo> after the UI is added, it will be easy to reorder buddies inside a contact. But I'm not sure the code will like having several buddies with the same position value. It should not cause huge problems, but is likely to make the ordering unpredictable across all the buddies with the same position value
23:51:02 <clokep> Ah, I see.
23:51:21 <clokep> Why not just make the position the length when it gets added?
23:51:38 <flo> if I fix the backend before pushing, any merged/adopted buddy will be added at the last position (position value = length)
23:51:51 <clokep> That's what I was thinking.
23:52:53 <flo> 0 will be an acceptable value. That's required for backward compatibility by the way, because currently when adding an alias to a buddy, it creates a contact with a single buddy in it to store the alias string.
23:53:13 <flo> (and 0 is the default value)
23:54:27 <clokep> I see.
23:56:09 <flo> I'm almost surprised that we still have the SQL schema that was created during summer 2007, and that it's still usable without major problem. :)
23:58:43 <clokep> Good planning on your part I suppose?
23:59:24 <flo> I knew SQL migration code is painful, so I designed the buddy list with contacts and tags before starting the implementation :)