#instantbird log on 01 26 2011

All times are UTC.

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09:53:55 <flo> Good morning :)
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10:03:54 <yoh> hello flo 
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13:07:27 <deOmega> good morning 
13:07:55 <flo> hello :)
13:08:02 <deOmega> Looks like Firefox is actively addressing the hardware acceleration issues. 
13:08:08 <deOmega> http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.platform/browse_thread/thread/7d8b5549c467008d?pli=1
13:08:49 <deOmega> so seems like maybe i ought to  consider upgrading my hardware drivers
13:14:05 <deOmega> 24  participants in chat :)
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13:14:49 <flo> deOmega: yeah, and some active contributors are not currently here ;)
13:15:14 <deOmega> flo: very nice
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13:43:38 <deOmega> i noticed that the envelopes on the icons were removed on the nightly
13:44:21 <deOmega> this is evident  in the systemtray as well as  if the program is NOT pinned to the taskbar on windows
13:44:53 <deOmega> however, when it is pinned to the taskbar.. the envelopes return... minor comment of course
13:45:22 <flo> are you seeing the icon of the buddy list instead?
13:45:50 <deOmega> ohh
13:45:57 <deOmega> You are right.. makes sense
13:46:29 <deOmega> that is what i am seeiing 
13:46:35 <deOmega> thank you
13:47:10 <flo> no problem :)
13:48:02 <deOmega> have a great day.. i need to reboot and get to work
13:48:31 <flo> thanks. See you later :)
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14:27:43 <clokep> Good morning.
14:27:47 <flo> clokep: hello
14:28:27 <flo> clokep: there's a trivial way to get progress info on an XML Http Request. There's an onprogress event handler. I don't know how I missed that before :).
14:28:38 <clokep> Haha. :) I see.
14:28:50 <clokep> I never got around to looking into it -- packing everything you own takes a long time. :(
14:28:57 <flo> (and as you have probably guessed, I'm working on using the streaming twitter API)
14:29:16 <clokep> Nice! :-D
14:29:48 <flo> clokep: sometimes it's more about packing the good memories and trashing the bad ones than about real "things"
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14:30:50 <clokep> For me it's been mostly organizing things + buying furniture / everything one needs for an apartment. ;)
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14:31:32 <flo> for me, it took a lot of time to move all the services that were hosted on my home server
14:31:37 <clokep> flo: Did BenB email you?
14:32:20 <flo> I don't think so. Maybe. I got an email from someone who can't see MSN contacts, and one requesting we add the file transfer feature
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14:34:00 <clokep> Oh OK, let me clean a log up to send you then if you don't mind?
14:41:07 <flo> clokep: reading
14:43:15 <clokep> OK.
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14:50:50 <flo> hmm, I should find a pretty convincing reply to "what Instantbird does should be FF add-ons" before FOSDEM :)
14:51:14 <clokep> Yes, but that's from the suite guys and they want everything in Firefox.
14:51:41 * clokep is going to look atthe buddy list for js-protos today.
14:51:53 <flo> I guess I should talk more with KaiRo at FOSDEM :)
14:52:51 <flo> for what is worth, my office is in Villeneuve d'Ascq, near Lille
14:56:21 <clokep> I'll keep that in mind. :)
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15:24:56 <flo> ahah, first new message that is added in the conversation because of something received on the stream :)
15:26:27 <clokep> Congrats.
15:32:12 <flo> uh, the REST API sends most recent messages first. The current timeline has messages in reverse order :-/.
15:32:31 <flo> it's visible now that I've fixed the timestamps of individual messages (the timestamp used to be Date.now() ;))
15:32:53 <clokep> Can you just reverse the array when it comes in?
15:33:10 <flo> yes.
15:33:17 <flo> I'm not sure if that's enough though
15:33:47 <flo> and should I reverse only that array, or all the things I get (will this be reversed for messages from the stream too if several arrive at once?)
15:39:44 * flo added a .reverse() for now
15:44:18 <clokep> Hopefully that magically works.
15:44:25 * clokep is looking up info on the Xbox API.
15:44:29 <clokep> Which doesn't exist. :9
15:44:30 <flo> it very well pretends to work at least ;)
15:44:56 <flo> I still need to do at least the error handling
15:45:06 <flo> (not sure how to debug that :-S)
15:46:17 <flo> and we need to decide what should happen if the timeline conversation is closed, and how to reopen it
15:48:51 <clokep> For an initial cut we could just use thejoin chat dialog.
15:49:30 <flo> so if the user closes the conversation I close the stream, or would we reopen the conversation each time a new message appears on the stream?
15:50:06 <clokep> Oh. Hmm...I like htat idea actually.
15:50:23 <clokep> Although it'll be annoying if I don't want to see Twitter ATM so I "close it" and it keeps reopening up.
15:50:41 <flo> you would need to disconnect the account from the account manager to get rid of it
15:54:33 <clokep> Right.
15:54:39 <clokep> That sounds fine to me then.
15:54:42 * flo tried adding "track=firefox" to the request, and now sees a lot of tweet flowing by
15:57:05 <flo> hmm, so how am I supposed to deferentiate between a tweet that I have in the stream because it's in my user's timeline, and a tweet I have because of a tracked keyword?
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16:01:42 <clokep> :-\ You probably can't.
16:01:51 <clokep> Could also be in both btw.
16:02:01 <flo> that's "nice"
16:02:15 <flo> so if the user tracks keywords, I have to display those tweets in the same timeline?
16:04:06 * clokep isn't sure.
16:21:07 <flo> boo: JavaScript error: , line 0: uncaught exception: [Exception... "Component returned failure code: 0x8000ffff (NS_ERROR_UNEXPECTED) [purpleIAccount.password]"  nsresult: "0x8000ffff (NS_ERROR_UNEXPECTED)"  location: "JS frame :: resource:///modules/jsProtoHelper.jsm :: <TOP_LEVEL> :: line 193"  data: no]
16:21:39 <clokep> line 0? awesome. :) I hope that's not my bad.
16:22:00 <flo> probably mine
16:22:12 <flo> doesn't matter anyway as if it's yours I did review it ;)
16:23:48 <flo> clokep: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/534 looks OK?
16:24:10 <flo> uh, what's that "account_create" name :-/
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16:25:16 <clokep> C&P error?
16:25:27 <clokep> But yes, that seems to make sense.
16:25:32 <clokep> What proto doesn't have a password?
16:25:32 <flo> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/535 same with a few names fixed
16:25:44 <flo> twitter ;)
16:25:46 <flo> or Omegle
16:26:09 <clokep> Twitter has a password. :P But I guess we don't save it.
16:26:25 <flo> yeah...
16:26:31 * flo mumble something about OAuth ;)
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16:30:02 <flo> tracking "Google" is a good way to get a lot of junk
16:30:32 <clokep> I would bet. Or track bit.ly. ;)
16:31:48 <flo> I got a few: JavaScript error: file:///[...]/dist/InstantbirdDebug.app/Contents/MacOS/components/twitter.js, line 248: JSON.parse
16:31:56 <sabret00the> flo: did you manage to read back through the logs at all? if we can head in the direction of bug 663. I'd like to see it have a high priority so we can start adding the dependencies for all the bugs that would depend on it.
16:32:00 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=663 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Implement alerts tab on buddy list for notifications and alerts
16:32:14 <flo> so I added a try/catch with a dump to show me the input that causes parse errors... and no more error of course ;)
16:32:49 <flo> sabret00the: hello.
16:32:57 <clokep> :) try-catch is always fun.
16:33:03 <sabret00the> afternoon :)
16:33:17 <flo> I think a few (3 ?) people commented in the bug where you previously attached that mockup and said there wasn't enough horizontal space in the buddy list to put tabs there
16:34:26 <sabret00the> The fefault installation has the window wide enough, that said, we can undoubtedly use 16x16 icons for the tabs.
16:34:59 <flo> what are you trying to achieve with tabs by the way? Are you trying to show more information or to hide it somewhere the user will have to click to see it?
16:35:01 <sabret00the> Based on the notion that there's not enough horizontal space for tabs/menus/etc. We really can't do anything with the buddy list and that blocks all progression for IB
16:35:47 <flo> all progression? ;)
16:36:30 <sabret00the> For a user like me. I don't check my buddy list much. That said, I do check notifications all the time. there needs to be a centralised space for them and we need vertical space in ways in which we lack an abudance of horizontal space
16:36:55 <sabret00the> most progression bug 151 for example
16:36:58 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=151 enh, --, 0.3, nobody, NEW, Create a Tray Icon. SINGLE-click on tray icon opens and closes Instantbird.
16:37:01 <clokep> Bah that just pinged me. :( Haha.
16:37:17 <flo> so you don't care about the status updates of your buddies?
16:37:23 <sabret00the> bug 628 i meant
16:37:27 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=628 nor, --, ---, mook.moz+bugs.instantbird, ASSI, Unable to accept IRC invite
16:37:53 <sabret00the> I have no need to worry about the status updates of my buddies. all clients accept offline messages now
16:38:25 <clokep> Certain networks still don't support that I think.
16:38:28 <sabret00the> and i run tweetdeck, so if they have anything worth generally saying, it'll be on their twitters and/or facebooks
16:38:36 <flo> sabret00the: by the way, what were you trying to show with the conversation window part of your mockup?
16:39:14 <sabret00the> aim, msn, yahoo, icq and google talk accept offline messages AFAIK
16:39:51 <clokep> Can I interject for a second though?
16:39:54 <flo> (if you want to have a discussion with someone, being about to send offline messages is irrelevant)
16:39:57 <sabret00the> Wasn't showing anything with that. It was my idea for the redesign of the conversation window, but had no relevance in that mockup. I just never cropped the image.
16:40:01 <flo> s/about/able/
16:40:22 <flo> clokep: sure
16:40:33 <flo> warning: I have to go in about 5 minutes.
16:40:37 <clokep> I think really you just want some listing of all "events" or "alerts" or whatever you want to call it that occur, and it needs to be added to the UI, and you're suggesting adding it to the buddy as a horizontal tabbed interface sabret00the.
16:41:01 <clokep> I think we agree that it's important to show those, but just aren't sure if that UI is the best way to do it, correct flo?
16:41:40 <sabret00the> I agree with you flo. In most cases, I'd see if they were on/offline from my buddy list. however if i want to send them a message. i'll send it anyway. i don't need that list viewable 100% of the time. Especially when I can use it for other stuff and have it a single click away
16:42:09 <flo> clokep: I'm not sure yet of the exact use case sabret00the takes as his point of view.
16:42:17 <sabret00the> that's exactly what i'm suggesting clokep
16:43:10 <sabret00the> Buddy window = two tabs. First tab = contact list. Second tab = alerts/events
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16:44:45 <sabret00the> I've recently been trying to get a few people to switch to Instantbird and they've refused because they use their IM client for notifications first and foremost, checking who is online isn't on their priority list.
16:44:55 <flo> sabret00the: if you don't care about the status of your contacts, why not closing the buddy list, and displaying the list of events in a tab of the conversation window?
16:45:57 <sabret00the> that would make no sense. it's illogical
16:46:28 <sabret00the> my conversation window generally have four/five tabs open of the people i speak to the most.
16:47:49 <flo> sabret00the: "that would make no sense. it's illogical" I don't agree if course ;).
16:48:23 <sabret00the> Well the buddy window is for global information. the conversation window is for conversation information.
16:48:28 <flo> checking a list of events and checking an IRC chat rooms where you don't talk much is almost the same thing
16:48:45 <sabret00the> if i can't control the aspects of accounts from a conversation window, why would i expect to see account information there?
16:49:29 <sabret00the> it depends on what your definition of events if though flo. in my case, it's buddy requests and mail notifications.
16:51:03 <sabret00the> those things are tradionally shown on the buddy window rather than the conversation window for good reason.
16:51:03 <flo> I've got to go. Good evening
16:51:18 <sabret00the> Have a good evening flo.
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17:29:40 <Mic> hello
17:30:00 <clokep> Hey Mic.
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17:32:18 <Mic> Instantbird as add-on to Firefox? Why not? Would bring it a step closer close to be a all-purpose-coffee-cooking-baby-sitting-database-management-grocery-list-management-program :P
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17:32:56 <Mic> Sometimes I wonder if it would be better to sell it as "app platform" ;)
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17:33:09 <clokep> Hahaha.
17:43:31 <Mic> I don't want to start this discussion again (leaving now anyways;), but:
17:44:14 <Mic> Even if the event list would be on a tab, you could still detach it and resize it to resemble your buddylist
17:44:34 <Mic> even without the buddylist then! ;)
17:44:51 <clokep> Oh Mic, I looked up info about XBL stuff.
17:45:00 <Mic> ..?
17:45:15 <clokep> Someone made an API but it uses SOAP calls...which Mozill ahas a library for I think.
17:45:19 <clokep> (Xbox Live)
17:45:38 <clokep> But there's also a "community developer program" which has an API you have to apply for: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/community/developer/
17:45:42 <Mic> Ah, XBL = XBox Live here :)
17:46:00 <clokep> Yes, not "XML Binding Language" sorry. ;)
17:46:24 <clokep> And you can also get some info from the gamercard: i.e. view-source:http://gamercard.xbox.com/en-US/Major%20Nelson.card but not online info or friends.
17:46:53 <Mic> I'll look at it later, I've got to leave for a while
17:47:07 <clokep> Bye! :) I can file a bug if you want me to put what I've learned.
17:47:11 <clokep> Or a wiki page or whatever.
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