#instantbird log on 01 24 2011

All times are UTC.

00:04:01 <clokep> Been a lot of talk on twitter about Instantbird the last few days.
00:06:32 <The_Tick> doesn't mean much
00:06:36 <The_Tick> :)
00:07:10 <clokep> Yes, I know. But a bit more buzz than had been in the past.
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03:58:06 <clokep> If I do this.__proto__.someFunction...what is "this" inside that function? ;)
04:18:15 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com added attachment 496 to bug 661.
04:18:18 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=661 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, JavaScript accounts do not automatically set containsNick field on messages
04:18:29 <Mook> clokep: whatever was to the left of the dot when you call it
04:18:55 <Mook> (unless using Function.prototype.bind, Function.prototype.call, or Function.prototype.apply)
04:19:02 <clokep> Thanks Mook. :-\
04:19:08 <clokep> I tried .call and it didn't help my situation. :P
04:19:16 <clokep> Maybe bind will...I'm not familiar with that one.
04:19:30 <Mook> well. I don't know what your situation is just yet, so we'll just have to leave it at that ;)
04:19:44 <clokep> See the attachment I just added ^^
04:20:29 <DGMurdock> http://code.google.com/p/gource/
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04:22:55 <Mook> you just want to call the previous one in the chain?
04:23:04 <Mook> DGMurdock: old. as in, years.
04:24:22 <clokep> Mook: Yes. :)
04:24:48 <Mook> clokep: hmm, this.__proto__.writeMessage.apply(this, Array.slice(arguments)); doesn't work?
04:24:53 <clokep> Pretty much the Chat has the Conversation has a proto, I want to preprocessor the stuff then call the Conversation one.
04:24:58 <Mook> oh, actually, that would loop
04:25:07 <Mook> gimme a minute
04:25:25 <clokep> Yes I found that. Although I tried this.__proto__.writeMessage.call(this, aWho, aMessage, aProperties), but same thing.
04:25:27 <clokep> OK. :)
04:26:17 <Mook> hmm. I forget. does arguments.callee still work?
04:26:33 <clokep> I have no idea what that is. :-\
04:27:15 <clokep> MDC says deprecated.
04:27:45 <Mook> check if http://pastebin.mozilla.org/976677 works?
04:28:02 <Mook> err, but duplicate lines 2 and 3 with the condition reversed
04:28:14 <Mook> so more like http://pastebin.mozilla.org/976678
04:28:48 <Mook> err. more like http://pastebin.mozilla.org/976679 - I need to actually read before clicking on the submit button :(
04:29:31 <Mook> if you give the function a name, you can get away from the arguments.callee usage.
04:30:00 <DGMurdock> 2(Mook2): the link i posted is old? or most people now about it
04:30:00 <DGMurdock> 2(Mook_as2): the link i posted is old? or most people now about it
04:30:37 <clokep> Like if it were writemessage: function blah(...)?
04:31:38 <clokep> It That seems to work, but I'm not relaly sure I understand it...?
04:32:08 <Mook> DGMurdock: ugh. please stop that silly duplicated pinging. you know which nick you were talking to.
04:32:41 <Mook> clokep: the first loop, skips everything above you (if somebody else extended the prototype change)
04:33:17 <Mook> the second loop, skips yourself (since the person extending the prototype chain might not have supplied their own writeMessage, you need to loop, still)
04:33:44 <Mook> by the end of the two loops, |proto| is one past you on the prototype chain. so call writeMessage on it.
04:33:51 <DGMurdock> mook, all i did was do this mook: then my client did that
04:34:11 <Mook> DGMurdock: then please get a non-dumb client
04:34:38 <clokep> Thanks for the comments Mook. ;)
04:34:54 <Mook> hint: if CTCP version results in non-ASCII characters that are not due to a non-English language... you probably want a different client.
04:35:23 <Mook> clokep: does it make sense, though? :)
04:37:22 <clokep> Mook: I think so. . .Just need to figure out about naming it now?
04:38:03 <Mook> yep
04:38:12 <Mook> in your example, |blah| would work, I think
04:38:23 <Mook> (you don't need the name to be visible outside of that function)
04:38:24 <DGMurdock> mic, did you ever figger out anthing that could fix the update bug i reported
04:38:50 <clokep> OK. :)
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04:49:53 <clokep> Hmm....the code doesn't loop anymore but my function doesn't seem to run either. ;)
04:53:45 <clokep> Yay it works. :) Thanks a lot Mook!
04:54:19 <Mook> :D you're welcome
04:54:45 <Mook> was there a bug? (well, probably yes, given that I had to try 3 times to get something I didn't actually test...)
04:55:33 <clokep> Yes...the bug was me changing the file in my checkout of Instantbird trunk instead of in my extension. ;)
04:55:36 <clokep> So...the bug was me.
04:55:37 <DGMurdockIII> im still here
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05:02:41 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com added attachment 497 to bug 661.
05:02:42 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 497 on bug 661.
05:02:43 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=661 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, JavaScript accounts do not automatically set containsNick field on messages
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05:09:43 <clokep> And I think it's about time for bed. :) 'night!
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07:54:16 <igorko> hi
07:54:34 <igorko> why nightly are builded only for macosx?
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10:02:40 <flo> hello :)
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10:08:06 <Mic> igorko: because building failed for the other systems? ;)
10:12:41 <Mic> Seems like something hung on Mac (killed after timeout) and on Windows it can't find something
10:14:06 <flo> Mic: the mac build worked :)
10:14:17 <flo> the upload timeouted on linux
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10:20:18 <Mic> umm, I meant the leftmost column ;)
10:20:23 <Mic> Linux then
10:31:47 <Mic> Right now conversation content is treated no different than a webpage. Is this good or bad?
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10:33:11 <Mic> e.g. should it allow to mark whole messages instead of selecting the text in them?
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10:40:50 topic changed by sand.mozilla.org to "Ask questions about Instantbird here. Official website: http://www.instantbird.com. Latest release: 0.2. Read http://blog.instantbird.org/. Nightlies: http://nightly.instantbird.im/ (testing purpose only), IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/. | ICQ troubles-> http://tinyurl.com/ICQError"
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10:49:18 topic changed by sand.mozilla.org to "Ask questions about Instantbird here. Official website: http://www.instantbird.com. Latest release: 0.2. Read http://blog.instantbird.org/. Nightlies: http://nightly.instantbird.im/ (testing purpose only), IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/. | ICQ troubles-> http://tinyurl.com/ICQError"
10:49:18 * ChanServ sets mode +v instantbot 
10:49:56 <flo> Mic: sure, we already use the clicked node to decide if we are on a link or not.
10:50:07 <flo> but we can also use some of the magic copy paste code to get the message object :)
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10:50:23 <flo> lunch time
10:53:17 <Morian> instantbot: status
10:53:18 <instantbot> Morian: I have 1 factoids in my database and 1 bot friend to help me answer questions. Since the last reload, I've been asked 0 questions, performed 1 edit, and spoken with other bots 0 times.
10:53:19 <instantbot> Morian: I've been up 4 minutes.
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10:57:06 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org denied review for attachment 497 on bug 661.
10:57:07 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org added attachment 498 to bug 661.
10:57:14 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=661 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, JavaScript accounts do not automatically set containsNick field on messages
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11:46:57 <flo> ah, the windows build error is a real error
11:59:23 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/1f47e22aede0 - Florian Quèze - Avoid the 'strncasecmp undefined' build error on Windows.
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14:22:03 <Mic> hi
14:22:23 <Mic> instantbot: how are you?
14:22:24 <instantbot> Mic: fine thanks! I've been up 3 hours so far!
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14:38:35 <sabret00the> Is there a way to display avatars in the buddy list?
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14:47:25 <Mic> sabret00the: not yet
14:47:52 <Mic> There's a bug to improve the buddy list, maybe this feature is in its scope
14:47:54 <sabret00the> Is there a bug number for it Mic?
14:50:30 <Mic> Bug 225
14:50:33 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=225 enh, --, 0.2, nobody, NEW, Display more information in the buddy list
14:51:12 <Mic> (I wanted to suggest you search for "buddy list" yourself but there are about a hundered bugs)
14:55:34 <sabret00the> haha. thanks for the linkage.
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15:13:03 <clokep> So many things for improvement.
15:13:30 <Mic> "win!" :)
15:13:46 <Mic> Was just walking around in my room when I heard your message :)
15:14:12 <Mic> I set it to read it out loud when I'm away or idle (chances are good that I'm in my room anyways:)
15:15:27 <clokep> Oh, you got it working?! Awesome!
15:17:16 <Mic> yes, even though the voices are awful ofcourse
15:17:58 <clokep> Hahaha, of course. :) Congrats though.
15:18:40 <Mic> Reading a checkin or bug summary is even worse ;)
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15:24:04 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com added attachment 499 to bug 661.
15:24:06 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 499 on bug 661.
15:24:07 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=661 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, JavaScript accounts do not automatically set containsNick field on messages
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17:26:15 <sabret00the> Can we not present the options, account management and addon management in the same window but as tabs?
17:27:33 <clokep> It's probably possible, I'm not sure if it's wanted necessarily.
17:29:32 <Even> I think it might not be such a bad idea though.
17:29:48 <Even> Narrowing the number of windows is not a bad thing.
17:30:01 <clokep> Yes, I agree. :) We'd just have to make sure it all fits in together.
17:30:46 <Even> And it's the tendency Fx4 is showing. One of the goals of Ib is to be more than familiar to Fx users. This lead me to the track "we should tend to go in the same direction"
17:31:01 <Even> But yes, we have to try it out and validate it works out.
17:31:50 <clokep> Yes, the account manager could probably be part of the options window, while some of the tabs in the options window could probably be part of the addons window, etc.
17:31:50 <Mic> I think there are plans to make the options dialog "in content" like the add-on manager is.
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18:43:47 <sabret00the> I've got to submit an updated mockup of the menus, so while i'm there I might just attempt to do a mockup of in-content account management too. I doubt options is needed as the Firefox checkins on the matter will probably handle that.
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18:44:10 <sabret00the> Also is there no way to access the IB password manager?
18:45:50 <clokep> sabret00the: They're just stored in the preference system currently.
18:46:22 <flo> sabret00the: "I doubt options is needed as the Firefox checkins on the matter will probably handle that." I don't understand that part.
18:47:01 <flo> clokep: by the way, are there any changes needed in jsProtoHelper to add the "nick" attribute?
18:47:05 <sabret00the> Well Firefox.next (probably 5) will move the entire options dialog to a tab.
18:47:41 <sabret00the> Thus I doubt anyone needs any inspiration in regards to what it should/might look like for Instantbird
18:48:04 <clokep> flo: Uhh....Probably. :) nick probably needs to be added to the Conversation object.
18:48:26 <flo> does this become a new required _init parameter?
18:48:46 <clokep> I'm not sure how libpurple defines the nick. :-\
18:48:59 <flo> sabret00the: the problem is that Firefox is typically used in fullscreen, and Instantbird tabs are in relatively small windows
18:49:28 <flo> clokep: it's the way you appear for other people in the chat room
18:50:06 <clokep> Right. Is it provided when a new conversation i s built by libpurple?
18:50:09 <flo> (when I said "fullscreen", I meant maximized windows)
18:50:25 <sabret00the> That's true flo and was my thinking about the Addon Manager earlier. That said, it'll be far easier to scale their iteration down than it would be to go in a completely different direction.
18:51:15 <flo> "scale their iteration down"?
18:51:22 <sabret00the> here are two mockups of what they have planned: http://www.stephenhorlander.com/images/blog-posts/incontent-ui/win7-preferences-base.jpg http://www.stephenhorlander.com/images/blog-posts/incontent-ui/win7-preferences-network.jpg
18:52:26 <sabret00the> I was sayin it's far easier to make those more compact with tweaking the css, than it is to completely redesign the same interface.
18:52:53 <sabret00the> Especially while trying to maintain familiarity
18:53:32 <flo> clokep: it's initialized at http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/libpurple/conversation.c#413
18:53:54 <flo> sabret00the: not changing anything is even easier ;)
18:54:20 <sabret00the> haha :P
18:55:11 <flo> clokep: and jabber overrides it at http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/libpurple/protocols/jabber/presence.c#629
18:55:12 <clokep> flo: Yes, I see. I'm not sure how we'd transition that, I guess we could give another variable to init.
18:55:50 <clokep> I see, I guess I'm confused at whether it should be done automatically or if the protocol needs to supply the nick. :)
18:56:02 <flo> I hate "documentation" like that: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/libpurple/connection.h#428
18:56:41 <clokep> :) I gathered all that from the function name haha.
18:56:49 <flo> clokep: I tend to think we should attempt to find a sane default automatically, and let the protocol code override later (like for XMPP where it can be different in each room)
18:57:04 <flo> clokep: exactly! That "documentation" is a waste of everybody's time
18:57:54 <flo> do we have something that looks remotely like a "display name" in the account implementation?
18:58:57 <flo> I assume this.name wouldn't be right for IRC?
18:59:28 <clokep> No, it's not.
19:00:04 * flo is out of ideas
19:00:16 <clokep> flo: http://hg.instantbird.org/experiments/file/533b8fada2c7/components/ircProtocol.js#l187
19:00:41 <clokep> But that's for the account.
19:00:56 <clokep> So I can just pass that along in an init function, but I'm not usre if that's the proper way to do it.
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19:05:07 <flo> clokep: so you would take something like http://pastebin.instantbird.com/529 ?
19:06:03 <clokep> flo: Yes, that works fine for me.
19:06:27 <flo> hmm, do we have all the parts yet to be ready to push that? :-D
19:07:03 <clokep> I think so. :)
19:08:30 <flo> by the way, I used apply and arguments in my example because it's shorter and makes it obvious that the arguments list is the same in the same order
19:08:49 <flo> (it's common to add an argument and forget to copy it somewhere...)
19:09:04 <clokep> OK, that's fine. :) I just wasn't sure what would happen with directly editing aProperties and stuff.
19:09:08 <flo> I don't care much either way either
19:09:33 <flo> aProperties is an object, so the object is modified, and the parameter (a reference to the object) stays as is
19:09:40 <clokep> OK. :)
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19:11:16 <flo> and I'm not so sure about whether it's OK to be modifying that object
19:13:14 <clokep> It shold be probably be let properties = aProperties first, then do my check, then pass it all on.
19:13:37 <flo> what would that change?
19:13:50 <clokep> You're not modifying the object anymore, no?
19:13:56 <flo> properties would still be a reference to aProperties and the object would be modified
19:14:22 <flo> "properties = aProperties" would copy the reference, not copy the object
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19:15:22 <flo> if you want to leave the original object untouched, you can do: let properties = {containsNick: true, __proto__: aProperties};
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19:18:04 <clokep> Hmmm...OK. Do we want to do that?
19:18:22 <flo> I don't know :-S
19:18:55 <clokep> A benefit of working directly on the properties object is the caller nows what the "real" properties are that the conversation is displaying.
19:21:13 <flo> the unintended consequence is the effect if the caller uses the same properties object for a bunch of consecutive messages :-/
19:21:39 <clokep> True.
19:21:42 <flo> no caller do that currently, but there's no explicit reason to not do it
19:23:13 <clokep> We could directly set containsNick like I was before, so it'd get set to true/false every time.
19:23:59 <flo> yes
19:24:08 <flo> that way the protocol code cannot mess with it anymore
19:24:23 <flo> but I don't see a good reason for it to do that
19:24:59 <flo> add-ons may want that on the message object (like the Highlight add-on currently does), but protocol plugins... uh?
19:27:09 <clokep> Right. :-\
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19:27:15 <clokep> Sounds to me like we should just copy the object.
19:27:30 <flo> ok for http://pastebin.instantbird.com/530 ?
19:29:27 <clokep> flo: Yes, as long as it works. ;)
19:29:55 <flo> I don't have any thing to test it with
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19:31:37 <clokep> I don't have anyway to test the interface at the moment though.
19:32:06 <Mic> clokep: TTS just said something like "glow-kepp" for your name; I guess that's rather not the right way to pronounce it? ;)
19:32:34 <clokep> No, cloke-p, cloke is like the English word cloak.
19:32:45 <clokep> It's Irish or English or something, or so I'm told. ;)
19:33:36 <clokep> flo: I can test the jsProto stuff. I have to go for a few minutes. I'll be back in like a half hour.
19:33:47 <flo> you can also test it in the next nightly ;)
19:33:59 <clokep> Hahah. OK. :)
19:36:48 <flo> Mic: any reason why you wanted a vowel in bug 659?
19:36:51 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=659 min, --, ---, benediktp, ASSI, Missing accesskey for "Sign-on at startup" checkbox
19:40:15 <Mic> I thought I saw something like "prefer a vowel if one is available" but I guess "S" might be much better than any vowel there
19:40:43 <flo> if S isn't used yet, I think I would prefer S
19:42:14 <flo> S works (on Mac at least)
19:43:01 <Mic> It's not used elsewhere on the dialog, let me check the notification bar
19:43:31 <flo> we have a new windows nightly, yay! :)
19:44:15 <Mic> Looks good
19:44:39 <Mic> Can anyone request to rebuild a nightly btw? There's a dialog somewhere iirc
19:44:42 <Mic> *form
19:45:00 <flo> Even and myself can
19:45:49 <flo> ok, I'm commiting it with the S
19:45:57 <Mic> ok
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19:47:31 <Mic> "How to pick an accesskey letter": https://developer.mozilla.org/en/XUL_Accesskey_FAQ_and_Policies
19:47:48 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org granted review for attachment 492 on bug 659.
19:47:50 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=659 min, --, ---, benediktp, ASSI, Missing accesskey for "Sign-on at startup" checkbox
19:47:53 <Mic> I guess I know what we can check first next time
19:48:28 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 659 to FIXED.
19:49:18 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org cancelled review?(florian@instantbird .org) for attachment 499 on bug 661.
19:49:28 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=661 nor, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, JavaScript accounts do not automatically set containsNick field on messages
19:49:49 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/3c80407cffcb - Benedikt P. - Bug 659 - Missing accesskey for 'Sign-on at startup' checkbox in the accounts manager, r=fqueze.
19:49:50 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/82123845bacf - Florian Quèze - Bug 661 - JavaScript protocols should handle the containsNick attribute of messages automatically, r=clokep.
19:50:00 <Mic> I feel a bit bad about all these two-lines patches I do ;)
19:50:59 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 661 to FIXED.
19:52:03 <flo> Mic: I feel very bad about all these several lines long patches I don't review because two-line patches are much more pleasant to read and comment on ;)
19:52:36 <flo> each time I start looking at bug 628 I get distracted ;)
19:52:42 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=628 nor, --, ---, mook.moz+bugs.instantbird, ASSI, Unable to accept IRC invite
19:54:28 * flo apologies to Mook (who will probably read the log) for not working harder on this review :-(.
19:54:32 <flo> Good evening
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20:25:00 <Mic> bye
20:25:04 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2)
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22:50:31 <sabret00the> how do i access about:crashes for ib? I've been getting a ton lately
22:52:57 <clokep> Error Console > Type "openDialog("about:crashes");"
22:53:29 <sabret00the> thanks clokep
22:53:36 <clokep> No problem. :)
22:53:41 <clokep> We have a bug about adding it to the menus.
22:54:08 <sabret00the> Also, having just seen bug 628, a more elegant notification than popping up a chat window might be to implement them in the alerts tab i proposed for the buddy list.
22:54:11 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=628 nor, --, ---, mook.moz+bugs.instantbird, ASSI, Unable to accept IRC invite
22:57:35 <clokep> sabret00the: I believe that flo mentioned about wanting to do something like that.
23:02:25 <sabret00the> ah, i was attempting to read the patch and thought i saw that notifications were in theconversation window.
23:07:59 <clokep> They are.
23:08:08 <clokep> But during a discussion yesterday we were talking about various places to put them.
23:08:18 <clokep> One suggestion was in the bottom half of the conversation window.
23:17:43 <sabret00the> For me that doesn't make sense. With all the plans we have for Instantbird. It makes more sense to put them in the alert tab. That way you can highlight the tab on the buddy list window and also show there's a notification on the tray icon.
23:18:47 <clokep> I don't really see how it's different...but comment on the bug perhaps?
23:18:50 <sabret00the> Showing the notification on the tray icon is parity-pidgin. and showing it in a centralised notification seems to be the best ux design that also caters for scalability of the project as a whole.
23:20:55 <sabret00the> I was wondering if I should do so, but I know flo reads the chat logs, we'd really need the green light on the notification tab before we start trying to designate content to go there.
23:22:44 <clokep> sabret00the: Commenting in bugs is a bit more "permanent" in my mind though. I don't see how having it in the tray icon bug is related to the tab?
23:24:50 <sabret00the> Well the tray icon is a must anyway. A tray icon should flash for new messages by default and special alerts like chat invites. However in the case of invites, upon clicking the tray icon it should open the buddy list on the alert tab so the user can see the alert and act accordingly
23:27:39 <sabret00the> Most notifications which the tray would display would require the alert tab. chat invites, buddy requests, mail notications, account notifications (i.e. "you've been signed out by someone signing in from another computer, reconnect?")
23:29:31 <clokep> Right, but I see that as two separate things. The alert tab or whatever...and then the UI for opening it.
23:41:55 <sabret00the> The alert tab would be open all the time, just as a background tab to the buddy list. we'd simply append a number to the end of the title to indicate new alerts. maybe even change the colour as per Firefox App Tabs.
23:42:31 <sabret00the> Having the tray icon open the tab upon being clicked when there's a notifcation present would be the hard part.
23:42:52 <sabret00the> So in that regard, they're two separate things.
23:43:11 <sabret00the> But they are very closely aligned to each other.
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23:49:21 * Mathnerd314 pops in
23:49:35 <Mathnerd314> anything easy to do?