#instantbird log on 01 20 2011

All times are UTC.

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14:33:39 <sabret00the> Whatever happened to the project to switch from libpurple to javascript? Is it still limited to IRC or have trials started to port it for the other protocols?
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14:45:54 <flo> sabret00the: other protocols will be implemented in JS, but only if there's someone to maintain them
14:46:25 <flo> XMPP (Jabber, Google talk, ...) is likely to end up in JS because it's a protocol that is well specified and nicely extensible.
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15:06:42 <sabret00the> Thanksfor the info flo. I was just wondering as it seems quite an exciting change. Especially the switch from libpurple which seems to have a monopoly in regards to multi-protocol clients.
15:07:24 <flo> as far as I know, neither Kopete nor Miranda use libpurple
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15:12:42 <clokep> sabret00the: Also I haven't really worked on the IRC aspect of protocols recently...more on the backend necessary to implement them...
15:13:37 <clokep> ...speaking of which, flo did you ever take a look at the proxy stuff?
15:13:47 <sabret00the> flo: Ah, I thought Miranda used libpurple, was just trying to check on that actually.
15:14:12 <clokep> Although sabret00the if you're interested in what progress has been made on the backend, I just wrote a blog post about it.
15:14:19 <flo> clokep: not yet.
15:14:30 <clokep> Also Trillian does not use libpurple nor does Digsby AFAIK.
15:14:33 <sabret00the> clokep: ah, good to know. I just an assumption that you was sticking with implementing irc fully.
15:14:39 <flo> I may look at it in a few hours, but can't promise it ;)
15:15:09 <flo> clokep: I mentioned only open source alternatives ;)
15:15:12 <clokep> That's fine, was just looking at my dependency graph and trying to sort stuff out.
15:15:42 <clokep> sabret00the: Yes, I've been sticking to mostly IRC as a protocol, but been extending aspects of the backend when I need to do things that aren't implemented. :)
15:15:51 <clokep> Sort of paving the road before I drive on it type of thing. ;)
15:16:16 <flo> clokep: by the way, was my last comment in the twitter bug helpful?
15:16:17 <sabret00the> having just checked on pidgin.im only adium, apollo im, eqo, finch, meebo, palm, pidgin, telepathy-haze, spectrum and us knowingly use pidgin
15:16:37 <clokep> But that's a lot. :)
15:16:48 * clokep wishes there was a good market share number for IM clients.
15:18:03 * flo wishes Instantbird was in the top 5 in these numbers, and at least top 3 for multi-protocol clients ;)
15:18:20 <clokep> flo: It was, really the UI is what I've been thinking about.
15:18:39 <flo> is using the join chat dialog stupid?
15:18:42 <sabret00the> Trillian managed to grow their marketshare incredibly well by implementing sync and rolling out apps on all major im's. it's a dream of mine for instantbird, but that would be post 1.0
15:19:10 <clokep> flo: I might look into whether you can use XHR to 'stream', you might have to open a socket actually?
15:19:23 <clokep> And the join chat dialog isn't stupid, but it's very...non-obvious.
15:19:23 <sabret00the> I can see Instantbird doing well. it's already a good client, it's biggest competition will be both miranda and pidgin
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15:19:38 <clokep> Can we just add something to the File menu maybe?
15:19:52 <flo> sabret00the: from my point of view, the real competitor is Digsby
15:21:31 <flo> clokep: I was wondering if there was a way to follow the progress of the data transfer and for that to have a direct access to the nsIChannel and then an nsIInputStream... Maybe I'm dreaming ;)
15:21:52 <flo> sabret00the: can you elaborate a bit on what Instantbird should do to make your dream come true? ;)
15:22:42 <clokep> flo: What event occurs when you need to check the data? Or does a certain character just go by or what...?
15:23:25 <flo> from what I remember of the doc, \r separates all parseable blocs
15:23:37 <sabret00the> I hadn't given much Digsby much thought, it had a big buzz a few years back but not so much any more.
15:23:40 <flo> the messages can contain \n, but never \r
15:24:13 <clokep> Got it. :)
15:24:35 <clokep> A lot of people use Digsby, it seems to be a bit easier for the "average" person? ;-\
15:24:54 <clokep> flo: You can get read-only access to the nsIChannel in use...
15:24:56 <flo> and they do aggressive marketing
15:25:20 <flo> which makes it easier for average users to get aware of its existence
15:25:31 <sabret00the> And flo, my dream is to see Instantbird with apps for Blackberry, Android and iPhone with sync chat logs and contact lists.
15:26:36 <flo> sabret00the: we are interested in supporting Android.
15:26:45 <flo> and we will definitely have sync someday
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15:29:22 <clokep> flo: This seems to do what we need? http://www.kylescholz.com/blog/2010/01/progressive_xmlhttprequest_1.html
15:30:29 <sabret00the> I'm really looking forward to sync. I think that if it's possible to implement all of the protocols in javascript, the ease of portability will ease.
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15:30:39 <clokep> I'll look into it in a few minutes, but I need to do a few things first. :)
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15:31:53 <flo> sabret00the: portability to what?
15:31:55 <sabret00the> the only client i've considered over instantbird is trillian 5 and that's more down to the fact that it looks native to windows 7 than it's down to the fact I can sync my clients.
15:32:18 <sabret00the> other mobile platforms
15:32:36 <sabret00the> portability to other mobile platforms
15:32:46 <flo> nah, the problem for other mobile plateform is whether Mozilla is ported to them
15:33:07 <flo> on the iPhone for example, it's impossible because of the Apple licence on the iPhone SDK
15:46:10 <sabret00the> But they did manage to get Home onto the iPhone, would that infrastructure not be enough to port Instantbird, especially if the library is merely javascript?
15:52:27 <clokep> Home is just a native iPhone application that implements the Sync requests.
15:54:45 <sabret00the> Which is ultimately what you'd like an iPhone Instantbird client to do isn't it?
15:55:08 <sabret00the> Apologies if I'm oversimplifying things here.
15:56:08 <clokep> Well, yes. But I'm saying the Firefox Home (or whatever it's called) doesn't use any of the Mozilla code...it's just iOS code or whatever.
15:57:01 <clokep> But we need Mozilla code to connect to accounts, etc.
16:01:24 <sabret00the> ahhhh
16:04:07 <clokep> I hope that makes sense. :)
16:08:37 <sabret00the> It does make sense, but on further thought, it only* provides a problem if you don't have the desktop version installed, thus it can't grab your accounts from the cloud.
16:08:45 <sabret00the> * i saw only but it's a pretty huge thing.
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16:12:24 <clokep> Well...the issue is that we'd have no way of actually connecting to accounts without writing stuff from scratch, so it wouldn't really be cross platform.
16:28:15 <flo> sabret00the: we could as well include a webserver inside the desktop instantbird or the sync server, have a web version of Instantbird (like meebo) and pretend we are compatible with all smart phones at once ;)
16:28:41 <sabret00the> lol
16:33:24 <flo> would probably be a great feature by the way
16:34:29 <flo> and could even be better for mobiles, as I don't really see mobile phones with very unreliable internet access (while moving) keeping connections to a dozen IM accounts at once
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17:22:38 <sabret00the> flo: you're half right. you shouldn't rely on live updates on phones. especially as most users will try and save bandwidth/data by using push notifications.
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18:31:27 <DGMurdockIII> hi
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18:57:12 <DGMurdockIII> hi
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19:22:42 <clokep> DGMurdockIII: Hey, what's up? Did you need something or just saying hi? ;)
19:22:59 <DGMurdockIII> just saying hi
19:23:33 <clokep> K. :)
19:26:38 <Even> This chan is more and more crowded.
19:26:55 <Even> This is a good sign of the overall community growing :)
19:26:58 <clokep> Was 26 at one point last week!
19:27:28 <Even> The other one is AIO that makes better and better scores on its more downloaded addons.
19:27:39 <Even> MinimizeToTray is a good indicator.
19:29:41 <clokep> Yeah, there's a few which have a lot of users I thik?
19:31:05 <Even> yep
19:31:27 <Even> The big one is obviously the later I stated (minimize)
19:31:35 <Even> But buddy instant is also doing quite well.
19:33:03 <Even> *buddy status sry
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19:33:13 <Even> It is at 2590 downloads as of now.
19:33:18 <Even> That is quite good.
19:33:41 <Even> It it maintain a good curve of downloads with approximately 136 downloads per weeks.
19:33:53 <clokep> :)
19:35:52 <Even> And one of the fun thing to look at is what I call the weekly curve. It's repeating a pattern on "major" extensions.
19:38:04 <Even> You have a lot of downloads on Wednesday (the most downloads of the week are usually on this one) and then it goes down little by little until Saturday which is as its lowests, climb a little from there for Sunday, still a little more on Monday, and gets to its lowest of the week there, for Thursday.
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19:39:58 <Even> *disconnected
19:40:10 <Even> Wanted to tell the lowest was on Tuesday, sry.
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19:40:56 <Even> The good part is that it tells the best day to release something is probably on Tuesday evening, so that people sees it is there on the good day.
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19:41:19 <Even> They are probably more likely to find out about it if it's all brand new at this moment.
19:41:25 <Even> Still, it's fun.
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19:44:23 <clokep> Yup. :) I also like looking at daily users...where you can see that people tend not to use IM on weekends.
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20:02:07 * flo would like to understand (and get rid of) that bug about the offline status and automatic reconnection...
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20:27:34 <Mic> Good evening
20:27:53 <Mic> You talk too much btw :P
20:28:08 * Mic goes back to read the logs.
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20:45:46 <Mic> Even: I'm surprised by the increase of active daily users over the last three weeks
20:45:56 <Mic> I went up by ~ 1/4th
20:46:21 <Mic> (That's about the Buddy Status extension by the way)
20:46:57 <flo> Mic: didn't you say we were one of the 2 featured mozilla application of january?
20:47:20 <Mic> Indeed, there was something like that
20:47:57 <flo> http://www.mozilla.org/projects/
20:48:20 <flo> that page is the "Our projects" link in the header
20:49:20 <clokep> Has anyone thought about another blog entry at all? I think it's been a month-ish?
20:49:35 <flo> clokep: I think you did think about it several time already.
20:49:45 <clokep> Yes. :)
20:49:49 * clokep is waiting for more feedback.
20:50:05 <Mic> clokep, flo: about the "contributors"-posting, should be mark some bugs as "good first bug" on Bugzilla (sure, it depends on the level of the contributor) before that?
20:50:49 <flo> if you like :)
20:50:58 <Mic> So we don't have only the list on the posting but something that people can use again to find more if they like
20:51:14 <clokep> That's a good idea Mic.
20:51:36 <flo> by the way, we have 6 student from the university of Evry working "for us" this year
20:51:39 <flo> *students
20:51:41 <Mic> I can look for some more (to the ones we already have)
20:52:00 <Mic> Bugs, not students :P
20:52:23 <flo> 2 of them are going to work on message theme/ emoticon themes editors.
20:53:14 <flo> one will try to implement the "more information in conversations" thing (I thought we had a bug about that, but couldn't find it). The thing that should replace the current topic bar in chatrooms and be in IMs too, with the buddy icon, status message, ...
20:53:22 <Mic> Are they worth it?
20:53:28 <Mic> The editors ..
20:53:58 <flo> I think so.
20:54:18 <clokep> Mic: It's also parity trillian I think? Someone was in here asking about it...?
20:54:23 <flo> The good graphic artists are not necessarily good at packaging stuff, ...
20:54:33 <Mic> I was thinking about that before and came to the conclusion that it's maybe better to mass convert Adium smiley themes
20:54:59 <flo> Mic: that was a 0.2 blocker at some point.
20:55:26 <clokep> flo: Bug 448 (buddy icons, etc.) I think is what you were thinking of?
20:55:31 <Mic> No python btw, if I find the time and concentration to get something done one day I'll try jabascript btw
20:55:36 <flo> then at some point I thought something along the line of "I made the difficult part with message themes conversation, the emoticons are way easier to convert, someone will do it someday, let's release anyway"
20:55:38 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=448 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, User Avatar support
20:56:36 <flo> Mic: by the way, the emoticon theme editor could also be seen as a way to just customize the currently active emoticon theme: "I hate that emoticon, let me disable it"
20:57:02 <flo> as I see it, it should clone the current theme, and let people change the text codes, and add/remove icons
20:57:17 <flo> then export it as a .xpi if the user wants to share
20:58:47 <Mic> What will the other three of the students be working on (to jump back to this)?
21:01:08 <flo> clokep: hmm, the description in bug 448 is a bit confusing. As I understand it deOmega was complaining about the inability to set one's own buddy icon. Could also be bug 206 or bug 108, or maybe it was the ultimate purpose of bug 219?
21:01:13 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=448 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, User Avatar support
21:01:14 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=206 nor, --, 0.3, nobody, NEW, Same Screename from multiple accounts are not shown
21:01:15 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Show buddy icons in conversation windows
21:01:16 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=219 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [meta] Enhance the conversation window
21:01:20 <flo> I guess I should rather file a clean one if I really want a bug for that I mean :)
21:02:02 <flo> Mic: one will work on an add-on displaying the few last messages of the previous conversation when reopening a conversation
21:02:09 <clokep> I need to go buy furniture, I'll be back later. :)
21:02:20 <Mic> That's great :)
21:02:22 <flo> it will be an add-on to workaround our inability to implement that correctly until we have a decent log format
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21:02:52 <flo> it will just keep the last 10 (or so) messages in memory, in case we reopen the conversation.
21:03:10 <flo> and maybe dump that to a json file in the profile every few seconds, so that it still work after a restart
21:03:32 <flo> I have some hope of getting the "undo close tab" feature too ;)
21:03:43 <Mic> I think I filed a bug for this once?
21:04:33 <flo> very possible. But it will be an add-on, it won't really fix anything. Just ease the pain until we can fix it correctly.
21:05:46 <flo> another student said he would work on the "hide buddy" project of the wishlist. (I suspect he has chosen the idea that seemed the easiest to implement and won't work too hard...)
21:06:00 <flo> and I've no idea yet of the project of the last student
21:06:10 <Mic> Suggest the video preview? ;)
21:06:22 <Mic> This would be such a great thing
21:06:49 <flo> wasn't it almost completely working?
21:06:57 <Mic> Yes and no
21:07:07 <flo> or was it blocked by something *I* should fix? ^^'
21:07:27 <Mic> Yes that it worked, and no that I had to disable the content filter for it to work
21:08:19 <Mic> It was showing Youtube videos inline and nothing else so far
21:08:49 <Mic> I'd really like to include other pages like Flickr, Picasa, ... but many of them need stupid keys to access the API
21:08:55 <flo> is there a lot of work to fix it?
21:09:06 <flo> I should start looking at cool stuff to demo at FOSDEM ;)
21:09:31 <Mic> If you disable the content filter it would work
21:09:33 <flo> they all need OAuth?
21:10:40 <Mic> I don't remember if it was OAuth exactly
21:11:06 <Mic> but you need to authenticate to use their API in one way or another
21:11:12 <Mic> Youtube doesn't have this restriction
21:11:20 <flo> The content filter should not be in the way of add-ons, it should only filter incoming content, and add-on authors should have an opportunity to modify message after they have been filtered. Do we have a bug for that?
21:11:28 <Mic> No
21:12:11 <flo> at some point there should be a project on our roadmap "eliminate all the details that are a PITA for add-on developers" :)
21:12:30 <Mic> I think I inserted markup in the raw message and let the html-ification run over it after that (which does the filtering)
21:12:38 <flo> we most likely need to add notifications at several steps of the process of sending/receiving messages
21:12:42 <Mic> Was easier than meddling with a DOM tree ;)
21:13:06 <Mic> I just wanted it to work in one way or another ;)
21:13:58 <flo> hmm, and redesign the purpleIMessage at the same time
21:14:08 <flo> +"interface" ;)
21:15:55 <Mic> If you'd like to show the video thing, let me know. I only need time to work over it again (could even get Flickr and so on API keys, as long as they aren't published anywhere)?
21:16:16 <flo> who cares if they are published?
21:16:34 <flo> it's an add-on, we can change the keys and release an automatic update everyday :-P
21:17:11 <flo> just avoid mentioning your real name when signing up for the keys :)
21:17:33 <Mic> The system is modular, I only have to implement a certain set of methods on an object for a new site (one that finds the reference in the message and one that creates the output/preview)
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22:07:43 <Mic> boeh, I lost the code of contentpreview :S
22:08:02 <Mic> Developping in the global extensions folder maybe wasn't such a good idea after all :S
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22:33:55 * flo just attempted to scan a paper that was actually on the desktop while the scanner was scanning, and wondered for almost 10 seconds why the scanned image was blank :-S
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22:57:04 <Mic> Good thing is: this time it will be restartless and have its own repository :)
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23:55:29 <flo> Good night!