#instantbird log on 12 09 2010

All times are UTC.

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01:03:39 <clokep> flo: While updating that post with the ChatZilla stuff you suggested (Mic, you might want to check it again...)
01:04:00 <clokep> I had a really crazy idea -- I believe you said some people would be interested in using XMPP and possible sharing a library with us?
01:04:19 <clokep> How insane would it be to load a js-protocol into a different XUL app?
01:04:50 <clokep> Writing it, I looked into ChatZilla's code a bit more, it all seems OK, it's just old and doesn't use a lot of newer features.
01:05:07 <clokep> But it's definitely possible we could use a bit more of it maybe / update it?
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01:35:31 * hicham is using standalone cZ for IRC
01:37:43 <clokep> Yeah, it's a good product.
01:41:49 <hicham> it is the only one that supports arabic decently
01:42:33 <clokep> libpurple chokes on it?
01:44:52 <hicham> no, but there are two missing features : ability to set fonts per channel, ability to switch text direction per channel
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01:46:54 <hicham> clokep: http://mauroandres.wordpress.com/2007/08/23/turn-chatzilla-into-an-universal-instant-messaging-client/
01:48:28 <clokep> IRC transport? Intersting.
01:50:42 <hicham> http://img230.imageshack.us/i/screenshotrbe.png/
01:52:16 <clokep> Yeah I used to use Chatzilla.
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08:55:42 <flo> hello :)
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10:00:24 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 615 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
10:00:27 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=615 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, The conversation window should be easily customizable
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10:47:30 <Mic> hi
10:47:39 <flo> hello :)
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10:59:41 <Mic> I guess you saw that I wrote a short announcement for clokep's blog posting, just take it and post it if it's ok with you
11:00:02 <Mic> I'd only need do add a headline for it
11:00:33 <Mic> (umm, which I'm doing right now of course;)
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11:48:48 <flo> Mic: I emailed clokep yesterday evening to suggest that he adds something explaining why we are not reusing code from ChatZilla which also implements IRC in JS.
11:49:14 <Mic> He added that to his blog already
11:49:29 <flo> I know :)
11:52:41 <hicham> after all, you are both using xulrunner :)
11:53:44 <Mic> flo: did you want to point me to the updated post or was there something else about it? 
11:54:54 <flo> hmm
11:55:09 <flo> I need to read the update to his post before knowing what the next step is ;)
11:55:24 <flo> I spent time this morning exchanging emails with the twitter API team
11:55:48 <flo> they are not enthusiasts on the idea of authorizing xAuth for an open source application ;)
11:57:39 <flo> hicham: by the way, do you know how twitter applications packaged in fedora handle the oauth thing?
11:59:27 <Mic> I'm not familiar with OAuth/xAuth and the problems you're having with it, I only saw parts of your discussion with clokep about it
12:00:14 <Mic> Is it one of these private-key-publicly-visible-in-open-source-software problems?
12:00:43 <flo> the one I'm discussing with the API team is just that (or how we can mitigate it)
12:12:44 <Mic> Shouldn't they get this question from time to time anyways?
12:13:03 <Mic> It's hard to imagine that you should be the only one to have it.
12:13:05 <flo> probably :)
12:14:36 <Mic> Isn't that a sort of problem you only need to solve once (on their part)? 
12:14:52 <flo> http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk/msg/b1f049a6f6b87f22
12:15:34 <hicham> flo: I don't know anything about xAuth/oAuth
12:15:44 <hicham> flo : did you have a look at yoono though ?
12:15:49 <flo> that post said "will not be ready for the cut off, unfortunately", the email I received was even clearer: "we will not be releasing an open source-specific solution for OAuth-based applications."
12:17:20 <flo> hicham: looking now
12:25:15 <Mic> Is OAuth the only way to allow access to Twitter at the moment?
12:25:26 <flo> yes
12:26:49 <Mic> And OAuth was created for web-based authentification only, not for Desktop applications 
12:26:56 <flo> yes :)
12:27:52 <Mic> And these people are suggesting to 'just build browser based apps instead'
12:29:14 <flo> or not put the keys in publicly visible places
12:29:19 <flo> like the source code...
12:29:38 <Mic> A binary component with no source code provided?
12:29:53 <flo> I suggested we could do that.
12:30:02 <flo> that would be as insecure as a closed source application
12:30:02 <Mic> I don't like the idea though
12:30:12 <flo> we would provide the source of course
12:30:26 <flo> just... not the key
12:30:27 <Mic> except for the key itself
12:30:39 <flo> and if it's been compiled without the key it would throw NS_ERROR_NOT_IMPLEMENTED or something
12:31:02 <flo> Mic: there's nothing I like about this oAuth mess. It's all about tradeoffs and figuring out what hurts less...
12:32:35 <flo> requesting the developers who want to hack the code to either get a key themselves from twitter or copy the binary component of a nightly into their self-compiled version seems acceptable to me.
12:33:16 <flo> the part that I still don't see is how we can find a solution that works for packagers (linux distributions) that will recompile from the source code
12:34:04 <hicham> so the private key should be compiled within the app ?
12:34:21 <hicham> that is what I understand from what you said
12:34:58 <flo> yeah, it should be available on the compilation machine, and never publicly downloadable (so never visible in a compilation log, or from the tarball with the scripts to build the package)
12:35:52 <hicham> that is retarded as an authentication mechanism then IMHO
12:36:05 <flo> hicham: we all agree on that
12:36:33 <flo> security by obscurity (hiding a key inside a closed source binary) is stupid...
12:36:50 <Mic> Wait, security by obscurity is a recognized and much used security pattern :P
12:37:44 <flo> I still having figured out how yoono can be used
12:37:55 <flo> I set up an AIM account in it.
12:38:36 <flo> each time I try to send a message, I get "The following message could not be delivered" in return
12:40:40 <hicham> so now all opensource twitter clients do not work ?
12:41:56 <flo> http://arstechnica.com/security/guides/2010/09/twitter-a-case-study-on-how-to-do-oauth-wrong.ars/2 says "Most FOSS client developers have simply chosen to embed their keys in their source code with the hope that Twitter won't notice. I was about to give up on Gwibber, but Canonical intervened on my behalf (special thanks to Ken VanDine) and negotiated a compromise with Twitter that will allow Gwibber to continue using the service."
12:46:38 <flo> hicham: you said you have problems with irc in Instantbird. would you like to help us fix them?
12:47:11 <hicham> flo : I am trying
12:48:04 <Mic> How difficult is it to get such application keys?
12:48:58 <flo> it's trivial to get an application key that doesn't have xAuth privileges (you just need to give your application a name and submit the form).
12:49:11 <flo> To get xAuth, you need to email the API team and convince them you really need it.
12:51:00 <flo> hicham: yoono uses the normal oAuth (no xAuth).
12:51:14 <flo> it doesn't matter to them as they have a browser taking a big place in their UI
12:51:40 <hicham> flo : you are using xul as well
12:51:58 <flo> hicham: I hate bad UIs
12:52:17 <flo> and displaying a webpage in the middle of the account wizard or at the first connection of the account is a bad UI.
12:55:37 <hicham> I agree about that
12:55:56 <hicham> yoono is just weird
12:58:36 <Mic> Isn't displaying the idle status sort of useless? As soon as you're typing it will go away anyways.
12:59:08 <Mic> Or is it a sort of warning: if you start typing now then you won't be idle any more ;)
12:59:16 <flo> maybe :)
12:59:25 <flo> or a warning if the idle system fails to "get back"
12:59:42 <flo> I think it happened once or twice, but couldn't be reproduced
12:59:46 <Mic> Something I've never seen before though
13:00:20 <flo> that code (the mozilla idle service) is OS specific
13:00:34 <flo> and relies on OS APIs
13:01:19 <Mic> So far I thought libpurple would handle that
13:01:37 <Mic> Learning never stops ;)
13:02:42 <flo> I was very happy the day I removed that part of libpurple
13:03:30 <Mic> I'll be very happy strolling through this winter wonderland now :P
13:03:31 <Mic> bbl
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14:08:27 <flo> clokep: Good morning :)
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14:23:42 <clokep> flo: Good morning.
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14:28:08 <clokep> flo: That's really disappointing of the Twitter team that they just don't care about FOSS solutions since half the twitter clients are FOSS.
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14:41:37 <clokep> Since when do we care about customizability? ;) Isn't that just "Make an extension"? ;)
14:42:30 <flo> clokep: file a bug to move the prefwindow to an add-on :)
14:42:48 <flo> I've slept on the oauth doc and it all seems clearer now.
14:44:58 <clokep> No no, you just /think/ it's clear. :)
14:45:00 <flo> and I've a working 6 lines function to make the HMAC-SHA1 signature using the platform's code.
14:45:21 <flo> clokep: the doc is still a mess, but I understand what it tries to explain.
14:45:22 <clokep> So the plan is oAuth, forget xAuth again?
14:46:32 <flo> the more I look at the code (oauth.js, twitterHelper.jsm, ...), the more I'm tempted to reimplement all that from scratch.
14:47:29 <flo> I would like to factor out the code related to HTTP requests, and share it with the Omegle protocol plugin.
14:48:39 <clokep> That would probably be good code use.
14:49:03 <flo> and I'm really not a fan of Glazou's coding style :-[
14:49:30 <flo> clokep: sorry, almost forgot your question. I've not fully decided yet.
14:49:43 <flo> It depends on what the API team replies to my latest email.
14:50:11 <clokep> I very much dislike Glazou's coding style.
14:50:45 <clokep> Ah, OK. I wasn't sure if you had given up or not. :)
14:50:46 <flo> but I think the plan will be "implement both xAuth and the standard oAuth, use xAuth in official builds, and oAuth (with an ugly popup containing the twitter webpage) in unofficial and linux builds"
14:51:22 <clokep> Ah, I see. :-\ Should work, but ugly.
14:51:36 <flo> the question is: can we do better?
14:52:06 <clokep> I think having that window pop up in the conversation window would be OK...but some people keep it so small.
14:52:07 <flo> we can also attempt to put the webpage in a hidden frame, find the HTML form, and submit it :-P
14:52:14 <flo> that's very very ugly though
14:53:19 <clokep> I breaks the ToS (I think), but I personally wouldn't really care since their entire system is so flawed.
14:53:34 <clokep> We should be able to find the HTML form and submit it no problem.
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14:53:52 <clokep> And maybe just copy the paragraph and put it in the account creation thing saying "You're authorizing us to log into Twitter blah blah".
14:54:02 <flo> by the way, that whole thing (standard oAuth fallback) only works if we decide it's acceptable to put a not-xAuth-authorized key in the public source code.
14:54:54 <flo> clokep: what about "I understand I'm taking full responsibility for letting Instantbird break Twitter's ToS on my behalf."? :-D
14:55:39 <flo> clokep: "find the HTML form and submit it no problem" there will be a problem if the HTML of the form keeps changing to prevent this...
14:56:03 <flo> if it gets a common practice, someday they will add a captcha to that page
14:56:27 <Even> I have another bug.
14:56:36 <Even> Mozilla2 seems to introduce a lot of problems on Windows at least...
14:56:39 * flo hides
14:56:45 <Even> When the IRC room pops up the status bar is all grey.
14:56:58 <Even> But if I click where the close button should be, it closes correctly.
14:57:02 <Even> It is just not painted...
14:57:04 <Even> It remains grey.
14:57:10 <Even> And it is absolutely always reproducible.
14:57:15 <Even> Just need to open the irc tab.
14:57:20 <flo> clokep: hey, you are no longer alone with your broken topic bar! :)
14:57:44 <Even> I figured it was not some local stuff.
14:58:00 <hicham> is that on 0.3 ?
14:58:12 <flo> hicham: yes
14:58:21 <Even> You just need to see the thing to notice it is related to all the other bugs I posted recently on things not painted as they should be.
14:58:29 <flo> Even: it's possible it was just that the latest windows nightly was built above a bad revision of mozilla central
14:58:40 <Even> Was the same the day before.
14:58:47 <Even> At least on my side :)
14:58:49 <hicham> I haven't seen such things last time I built IB
14:58:53 <flo> Even: the last 2 nightlies failed to upload on both Windows and Linux
14:59:00 <Even> Ah ok...
14:59:06 <Even> Helps a little to understand things.
14:59:18 <Even> Well, I'm starting to HATE those VMs...
14:59:20 <flo> Even: I'm sure you can find someone or something responsible for that upload failure ;)
14:59:34 <Even> oO
14:59:35 <Even> windows is even offline
14:59:41 <Even> STUPID BOT
14:59:43 <flo> just when I managed to fix the mac nightlies, the other 2 broke :-D
14:59:49 <Even> lol
14:59:59 <Even> We are really in a bad shape regarding nightly builds recently.
15:00:11 <Even> It is always failing in a way or another.
15:00:38 <flo> Even: on mac our PPC end-of-life story doesn't look good :(
15:00:54 * Even is not surprised about this part
15:01:32 <flo> I wanted to discuss with you how we can switch back to i386 builds only before we move to i386/x86-64 later once we get a new build machine
15:01:38 <Mic> btw the topic bar is painted properly on Windows XP (build of 20101208)
15:01:54 <Even> I see.
15:02:02 <Even> It's really not a good time for those kind of issues.
15:02:18 <Even> We are dealing with a data failure issue over there.
15:02:21 <Even> Really a mess.
15:02:34 <clokep> Sounds like you guys need a real Windows and Linux machine. :(
15:02:47 <Even> Not really.
15:03:10 <Even> VMs are really not the bothering part.
15:03:12 <clokep> flo: If they add a captcha....we just show the captcha w/ a textbox in our own UI. :)
15:03:13 <flo> clokep: we need a new mac machine
15:03:27 <flo> clokep: we already need to code that for QQ :(
15:03:37 <clokep> Reusable code, voila.
15:03:48 <Even> The boring parts is windows degrading itself and the internet connection that could be quicker and more reliable.
15:03:48 <flo> :-D
15:04:15 <flo> Even: could we host VMs at Ornthalas' place? :-P
15:04:28 <Even> I doubt so very much :P
15:04:43 <Even> The guy is very touchy about noise issues.
15:05:33 <Even> If he can even hear a little a fan, and when I say a little, I mean it. If it is barely audible, he will still complain it is preventing him from sleeping.
15:06:06 <flo> whatever happens he will still complain, so maybe we could ignore the complaints? :)
15:06:13 <Even> So, short of creating a new silent PC able to run two VMs at once without producing a single sound... Not a chance :P
15:06:45 <Even> flo: Well, regarding this part, I doubt the computer will stay on for the correct moments if we try this.
15:06:59 <Even> flo: short of delivering it in a locker of course...
15:07:15 <Even> But lockers with an RJ45 + power connexion impossible to remove are not common :P
15:07:24 <flo> maybe we can schedule it to startup when he's already asleep and cannot notice? :)
15:07:44 <Even> Might decide it will awake him anyway ^^
15:07:59 <Even> I restarted the VMs at least.
15:08:12 <Even> Windows is running since last one didn't even started.
15:09:00 <Even> I tend to think Mozilla trunk is a mess. I doubt they will be able to fix everything for early 2011.
15:09:23 <Even> It leads me to the thought that we have plenty of time before 0.3 release.
15:09:40 <Even> At least if we don't revert back on mozilla 1.9.*
15:10:21 <Even> I'm even wondering if they are really going to be able to make this release.
15:10:30 <clokep> Oh flo: (and Even) even with the layers.accelerate-all set to false, I'm still getting weird painting issues.
15:10:46 <clokep> (Took me a while to figure out -- I kept crashing from that libpurple oscar bug. :P)
15:11:14 <flo> oh, you still have it?
15:11:34 <flo> you should have reminded me to upgrade libpurple just so that the crashes change :)
15:12:56 <hicham> to 2.7.7 ?
15:13:02 <clokep> I figured you wanted to let this one sit a while before they had to release another version. ;)
15:13:04 <flo> yes
15:13:07 <flo> whatever is current
15:14:16 <Mic> Even: they seem to have some serious memory usage issues too, I read a bug report today that said that the latest beta of Fx4 uses about twice the memory than 3.6.12
15:14:50 <Mic> It seems that three or four times things landed that unexpectedly increased memory consumption. And nobody noticed for month
15:15:22 <clokep> Probably because all the developers are now on pretty powerful machines. :-\
15:16:04 <Even> Mic: Well, I heard something on this topic :)
15:16:05 <flo> clokep: apparently it's because the difference is significant only when loading a huge number of tabs and the test suite only uses one for performance tests.
15:16:25 <Mic> Yes, that's why the tests didn't notice
15:16:47 <Mic> Seems to be below noise level on a single tab and no tests are done with more tabs neither
15:17:42 <clokep> Weird.
15:18:00 <clokep> Maybe that's why it runs like crap on my old laptop.
15:18:23 <flo> I think I'll change my laptop to have 8GB of ram to run it :-P
15:18:41 <clokep> My new one has 4 GB and runs it fine. :)
15:18:51 <Mic> Maybe someone should set up canwereleaseyet.com with a bold No. for the time being? ;)
15:18:57 <clokep> And a SSD so i probably wouldn't notice if it was caching to the drive.
15:19:07 <flo> Firefox 3.6 already takes 482MB here and I've only 20 tabs
15:19:13 * clokep is going to work on IRC instead of talking....:P
15:19:20 <flo> Mic: I like the idea! :)
15:19:53 <flo> we could also add "Is the mozilla trunk open for non-firefox-blockers yet.com" ;)
15:20:12 <clokep> Mic: I was thinking, in terms of wanting people on planet to read my post. I think it'd be better to copy it to the Instantbird blog, I'm not sure how many people would "click through" to another blog?
15:20:57 <flo> clokep: I think linking from our blog with a short summary (like Mic proposed) is fine.
15:21:04 <flo> and I like the idea of a planet.instantbird.org
15:21:11 <flo> but we would need to have more people blogging ;)
15:21:13 * hicham have 1GB and firefox runs great
15:21:19 <clokep> I volunteered Mic to blog. :)
15:21:42 <flo> I suspect we could volunteer Even to blog about the issues and changes on our infrastructure
15:21:44 * Mic only has 768MB and it's slow sometimes. Especially with a years old profile
15:21:54 <flo> and I should probably blog each time I release an add-on
15:22:22 <clokep> I started from scratch when I moved my profile to my new computer (i.e. I exported and reimported my bookmarks, etc.) and it actually made a HUGE difference in start up time.
15:22:36 <clokep> flo: Yes, I'd imagine people would be interested in them. :)
15:22:36 <flo> I think there's a difference between what we want to blog as a message from the project, and what I would want to blog as a message from myself expressing only my personal opinion/experiment
15:22:39 <flo> s
15:22:49 <clokep> Add your blog to it?
15:22:49 <Mic> Might be ok, as long as I don't have to become a part of this self-contained piece of the web called 'blogosphere' :P
15:23:13 <flo> clokep: my blog is in french
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15:24:42 <clokep> flo: That's why they have Google Translate!
15:24:59 <flo> clokep: and I posted only once in 2009, and 3 times in 2010
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15:25:14 <clokep> flo: You've posted more than they've updated ChatZilla! :)
15:25:25 <flo> what a great reference ;)
15:28:10 <Mic> clokep: are comments broken or disabled on your blog?
15:28:36 <Mic> "Post a comment" is neither a link nor is there anything that it could be a caption for
15:28:58 <Mic> There's empty space below, though (for me)
15:29:15 <clokep> Mic: They should not be.
15:29:21 <Mic> ABP is the only extension that changes content of pages and disabling it didn't make a difference
15:29:25 <clokep> I've never tried commenting on my own blog. ;)
15:30:06 <clokep> Underneath "Post a comment" there should be a box to write in.
15:30:17 <clokep> (And I'm not signed inso it doesn't have to do with that.)
15:30:37 <flo> uuuh, powerbird's screen is blinking. It alternates between the desktop, a black screen and the screen saver very fast...
15:30:39 <flo> pfff :(
15:32:12 <clokep> flo: Do system messages automatically strip out the source parameter?
15:32:35 <flo> I don't understand the question
15:32:54 <clokep> Like when I type a message it says "clokep: blah blah whatever I typed"
15:33:10 <clokep> If I say system = true, does it just do "blah blah whatever I typed"?
15:33:22 <clokep> Or is it dependent on the message theme?
15:34:13 <flo> dependent on the message theme
15:34:25 <flo> but the sender is rarely an interesting information for system messages.
15:34:46 <clokep> I agree. :) Just curious.
15:40:28 <clokep> Mic: So I see Post a comment a textbox a selet profile drop down a "post comment" and a "preview" button. Then a white space and "Links to this post"
15:41:51 <Mic> There's nothing but a tall white space between "Post a comment"  and "Links to this post"
15:42:04 <Mic> Will look into that later
15:42:10 <Mic> have a nice day
15:42:11 <flo> at least the "share on twitter" button works: http://twitter.com/instantbird/status/12894713338142720
15:43:01 <clokep> Yes. Bah now I need to actually name my blog. ;)
15:44:12 <flo> isn't "clokep's weblog" a name already?
15:44:31 <clokep> Yes, but it's lame. ;)
15:44:36 <clokep> My "JOIN" code works. :)
15:44:45 <Mic> nice
15:45:15 <Mic> So you actually can enter new chatrooms now?
15:45:29 <flo> clokep: how finished do you want to make your code before we start reviewing it together?
15:46:02 <clokep> flo: The one thing I /know/ doesn't work that /really/ needs to work is when people leave rooms.
15:46:06 <clokep> It crashes it right now. :)
15:46:17 <flo> crashes?
15:47:08 <clokep> Yeah, I have some code that's just wrong. I haven't had a chance to look at it yet.
15:47:25 <clokep> So it kills the module or whatever.
15:47:34 <clokep> And I then get disconnected once I stop pinging.
15:47:38 <clokep> Instantbird itself doesn't crash.
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15:48:43 <clokep> That's really the only thing I can think of before we can look over some of it. My question to you would be: do you want me to have it make use of the preferences stuff beforehand? It's still all hard coded.
15:49:21 <flo> not necessarily
15:49:49 <clokep> OK.
15:49:50 <flo> I'm especially interested in seeing what we should factor out in a module shared with other JS protocols
15:50:00 <clokep> The sockets code! :)
15:50:03 <flo> sure
15:50:06 <flo> but maybe more
15:50:06 <clokep> Which I have a bug in still...
15:50:24 <flo> or maybe by looking at the code together we will find things to improve a lot in the js-proto API
15:50:40 <flo> that would simplify your code
15:50:48 <clokep> Perhaps. :)
15:51:32 <clokep> One thing I haven't really thought about handling is...I need to have a list of people on the server and a list in each chat room and sync them some how...
15:58:38 <hicham> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/06/wikileaks_chinese_hacking/
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17:09:13 <clokep> Sorry for signing in a bunch of times in a row. ;) I needed a room with a topic.
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17:10:01 <flo> clokep: you can join #testib and set the topic there to something you like ;)
17:10:33 <flo> #test on irc.freenode.net is good too :)
17:10:49 <clokep> I was using #test on her, instead of #testib.
17:11:13 <flo> is #test used by someone here? I've never tried
17:11:36 <clokep> Nope.
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18:20:40 <Mic> evening
18:30:21 <zachlr> Hello, Mic
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19:50:07 <clokep_away> How's it going?
19:50:27 <clokep_away> Any good Twitter news? :)
19:50:52 <flo> nothing new
19:52:59 <flo> good evening
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21:59:32 * Mic tried Omegle.
22:00:13 <Mic> I think connecting it to Eliza is the only good solution for this
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22:06:30 <clokep> It was that painful? :(
22:07:27 <Mic> "where u from?" "asl?" "age?" "u a horny girl?"
22:07:30 <Mic> So guess what
22:07:47 <clokep> ?
22:07:52 <Mic> I can't imagine people actually think that might work :D
22:10:22 <clokep> And the people that say "yes" are almost definitely not. ;)
22:11:53 <Mic> I had to learn that Omegle sends a warning message if you try to scare someone telling him that "We've got your IP" :D
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22:15:19 <Mic> I don't even want to imagine what the video chat has to be like :(
22:16:37 <clokep> Wait, Omegle has video chat?!
22:16:47 <clokep> I thought it was just a web UI chat thing.
22:17:46 <Mic> I thought I had to chose between text and video on the frontpage
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22:21:20 <Mic> Yes, there's Video chat button on the front page
22:21:33 <Mic> Can't try though, as I don't own a webcam
22:21:45 <clokep> Interesting. I wonder how they do that via a website?
22:22:29 <Mic> Maybe it's Flash
22:22:45 <clokep> Yeah, that's what I'm getting since it just rejected me and I don't have flash. :P
22:23:48 <Mic> Someone not having Flash, that's rather unusual
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22:24:48 <clokep> 64-bit Firefox. ;)
22:24:54 <Mic> Except for Apple users :D
22:25:04 <Mic> *iOS
22:25:08 <clokep> And it's been my experience that 64-bit Flash crashes more than Flash.
22:25:23 <clokep> Plus...The only thing I miss it for is Pandora and my fantasy sports tracker. ;)
22:25:31 <clokep> And occasionally YouTube, but that's only when friends send me stuff.
22:27:02 <zachlr> Anything interesting happening in the world of Instantbird today?
22:28:24 <clokep> Hey zachlr.
22:28:46 <clokep> Today in particular? I don't think so. flo is waiting to hear back about xAuth from Twitter people. I worked on IRC a bit.
22:28:50 <clokep> That's all I know of. :)
22:29:19 <zachlr> xAuth?  I haven't heard of it.
22:31:10 <clokep> Alternate to oAuth that Twitter has for desktop applications.
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22:35:03 <zachlr> I see.  Is ib going to integrate Twitter?
22:35:18 <clokep> It's the plan.
22:35:47 <zachlr> That should be cool.  I don't use Twitter personally; cool idea though.
22:37:01 <zachlr> Is it just for status updates, or does Twitter have some kind of IM within it?
22:37:12 <clokep> No IM within it.
22:37:17 <clokep> But for the updates, messages, etc.
22:37:45 * Mic just had a nice chat with a finnish person on Omegle
22:37:58 <clokep> :) It's possible!
22:38:10 <zachlr> That's what I thought.
22:38:31 <zachlr> Haha, yeah you can find some cool people on Omegle, it just takes a while to find them.
22:38:36 <Mic> I saw a fun thing a while ago
22:39:02 <Mic> It was with the new CEO (?) of Twitter and he couldn't answer the question what the sense of Twitter is
22:39:30 <clokep> How long would it take us being on Omegle to find each other? :P
22:39:51 <zachlr> I've talked to the same person twice before on Omegle.
22:40:11 <clokep> Interesting. :) Must have been a slow night. ;)
22:40:11 <Mic> I was hoping for that when my connection broke
22:40:29 <zachlr> clokep, haha, you've got that right. 
22:40:43 <Mic> We had a nice chat about Shakespeare at this moment ;)
22:40:48 <zachlr> Mic, yeah, broken connections suck.
22:41:07 <Mic> It's "wait, I'd really like to talk to that person again"
22:41:28 <clokep> :(
22:41:33 <clokep> I'll be back later.
22:42:01 <zachlr> Bye clokep.
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23:01:39 * clokep is trying Omegle.
23:03:23 <clokep> Well that quickly digressed into Monty Python quotes.
23:04:14 <zachlr> Hi again, clokep :)
23:04:21 <clokep> Hello.
23:05:55 <clokep> Mic: You read the part I added about cZ?
23:06:02 <Mic> yes
23:07:36 <Mic> Well, it's understandable
23:08:26 <Mic> It's different as well as it only supports IRC and all parts only have to take this into account
23:10:41 <clokep> Yes.
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23:21:13 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 616 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
23:21:14 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com added attachment 413 to bug 616.
23:21:23 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=616 min, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Input box styling regression from 30e06bddc097
23:22:58 <clokep> If anyone is on Vista/7 and wants to confirm that, that would be splendid. :)
23:25:49 <zachlr> clokep, "The image ... could not be displayed because it contains errors."
23:27:58 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com added attachment 414 to bug 616.
23:28:07 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=616 min, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Input box styling regression from 30e06bddc097
23:28:24 <clokep> zachlr: Works this time. :) Idk what happened last time.
23:31:29 <zachlr> What am I looking for again?  Everything looks normal to me in that image.
23:31:55 <clokep> The input box, the top of it has no black line. ;)
23:32:51 <Mic> Did you mix up the paths maybe?
23:33:42 <clokep> Mic: The ones in the bug.
23:33:44 <clokep> ?
23:34:14 <Mic> Give me a second to check
23:34:21 <clokep> One has an extra "aero" in it, but I'm 99% sure they're right.
23:34:21 <zachlr> clokep, I see, mine does look slightly different.
23:34:29 <clokep> zachlr are you on XP, Vista, 7?
23:34:39 <zachlr> Vista, unfortunately
23:34:51 <clokep> Do you use Windows Classic theme or Aero?
23:35:15 <zachlr> Aero, right now
23:35:29 <clokep> Hmm....and you don't see that? Interesting...
23:39:03 <zachlr> Additionally, when active, the textbox has a blue outline.  Maybe yours was black because the window color is black, though.
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23:41:10 <Mic> I see that class declaration in both classic and aero skin btw
23:41:20 <clokep> Hmmm...
23:42:55 <Mic> Maybe you should download a fresh nightly build?
23:44:12 <zachlr> Speaking of nightly builds, I can't seem to access the FTP server.  Is that intentional?
23:44:28 <clokep> No. What're you trying to access?
23:44:30 <clokep> Mic: Downloading now.
23:44:45 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a1pre)
23:44:49 <zachlr> ftp://ftp.instantbird.com/
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23:45:18 <zachlr> <zachlr> ftp://ftp.instantbird.com/
23:45:35 <clokep> Try ftp://ftp.instantbird.org/?
23:45:51 <clokep> Or more likely... http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/nightly/latest-trunk/
23:46:32 * clokep is unpacking omni.jar
23:46:55 <zachlr> Same effect on .org, 530 Login Incorrect. 
23:47:31 <clokep> Maybe you can't access over ftp? I'm not sure. File a bug. ;)
23:47:39 <clokep> I've only ever tried over http.
23:47:44 <clokep> Mic: You're right, it's in both files...
23:48:14 <zachlr> That's what it seems like.  The only reason I wanted to use FTP is for simplicity of automation.
23:48:36 <-- Ornthalas has quit (Quit: KTHXBYE)
23:54:51 <zachlr> Actually I just remembered I can use download.exe, so HTTP is even easier. 
23:55:13 <clokep> What are you trying to automate?