#instantbird log on 12 08 2010

All times are UTC.

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09:21:07 <flo> hello :)
09:27:59 <flo> Mic: I'm already looking closely at Getting Real. Reading it sequentially ;).
09:29:41 <flo> http://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch07_Seek_and_Celebrate_Small_Victories.php would probably apply too
09:30:34 <flo> time to release Status Reminder! :)
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09:37:55 <flo> so many clicks to upload an add-on, fill all the forms with descriptions, ..., upload a screenshot, and get it "public" :(
09:38:48 <flo> ok, https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/263/ :)
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10:03:21 <Mic> hello
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10:29:24 * flo wonders how the people who wrote so much documentation about OAuth for twitter managed to forget to write (or put in an obvious place) the only part that would be useful: what the application should actually send in its request?
10:37:10 <Mic> by the way: if there's enough things to say I'd write a new status update soon
10:39:15 <flo> we've done none of the things listed in "Next" :(
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10:47:39 <Mic> Maybe we could ask clokep if he'd like to write something about js-irc? Why it is done, what the advantages are once it's done, how he is working on it (going through the specs), putting the jsProtocol code to test and adding missing pieces?
10:49:57 <flo> clokep: is http://dev.twitter.com/pages/xauth something new?
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11:42:31 <instantbot> New purplexpcom - General bug 614 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
11:42:34 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=614 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, No feedback when failing to join protected IRC channels
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12:17:42 * flo has just emailed api@twitter.com an xAuth authorization request.
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14:03:24 <clokep> flo: xauth is not something new.
14:04:00 <clokep> But it's essentially the same thing as oauth I think/ I don't remember looking at it too much.
14:04:14 <clokep> I didn't feel like sending a "detailed message to api@twitter.com to request xAuth privileges"
14:06:14 <clokep> Mic: In terms of js-irc, I actually wrote up something for my own blog the other day. ;) It needs a bit more done to it -- that entry was more of "Hey awesome, conversations work." But I've been wanting to do another about how & why, etc.
14:14:08 <Mic> Cool :)
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14:37:34 <flo> deOmega found a bug in my Status Reminder add-on.
14:39:10 <Mic> oh, btw I didn't get the orange for idle to work
14:39:52 <Mic> Even though I blame it on myself messing with your code ;)
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14:43:58 <clokep> flo: My topic bar doesn't work in last night's nightly?
14:44:03 <clokep> Or from your extension.
14:44:23 <flo> what does "doesn't work" mean?
14:45:00 <clokep> A gray box.
14:46:37 <clokep> flo: https://wiki.instantbird.org/File:GrayTopicBox.png
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14:47:58 <clokep> (The x button works though. :))
14:48:01 <flo> clokep: it seems you lose an element of your GUI every day ;)
14:48:36 <clokep> flo: I am running with layers.accelerate-all as false if that matters? I just installed Status Reminder (if that matters.)
14:48:56 * flo hopes the next nightly will fix all that
14:48:59 <clokep> I just found a bug in status-reminder btw. :)
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14:49:10 <flo> clokep: it doesn't color new windows
14:49:17 <clokep> Yes. :) Same one as deOmega?
14:49:21 <flo> yes
14:51:31 <flo> I would like my editor to warn about all the remaining function calls when I change the name of a function and save the file
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15:05:31 <flo> remora is really... interesting. To review an add-on and move it out of the sandbox, I only have to put something in one field, but to review an update of an already public add-on, I have to fill the "comment" field (like before), but also the operating system and the version of the application I used to try the updated add-on.
15:09:58 <flo> clokep: check for updates in the add-on manager and your bug will magically disappear :)
15:10:23 <flo> updates of restartless add-on are almost unnoticeable :)
15:10:28 <clokep> :)
15:10:45 <clokep> That's kind of awesome.
15:14:22 <flo> clokep: I don't remember if we've talked about xAuth already a while ago or not.
15:14:49 <flo> from what I've read on the twitter website, that seems a lot more suitable for Instantbird than the stupid webpage based authentication.
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15:36:02 <Mic> What a pity that it is so difficult to create anything but an almost UI less add-on to be restartless
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15:42:35 <clokep> flo: I don't remember talking about xAuth, but it's possible. :)
15:42:52 <clokep> It might be more suitable -- I had entirely forgotten about it.
15:43:09 <flo> do you know what will be painful in it?
15:43:10 <clokep> Is the work flow pretty much the same? I.e. can we use some of those libraries or just start from scratch?
15:43:16 <clokep> everything? :)
15:43:20 <flo> except it probably still requires a "secret" key... :(
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15:43:50 <flo> I've almost decided to start from scratch, because the oauth.js code is excessively complicated for something that should be simple
15:44:08 <flo> and sha1/md5 should not be implemented in JS but call the native functions that are in the platform
15:44:15 <clokep> True.
15:44:21 <clokep> Oh. I found something interesting the other day...
15:44:40 <clokep> (Speaking of oauth reminded me)
15:44:42 <clokep> http://developer.yahoo.com/messenger/
15:44:45 <flo> I reviewed that code (oauth.js) a few weeks ago, and I no longer understand it...
15:45:00 <clokep> I tried reading oauth.js and gave up relatively quickly.
15:45:21 <flo> "Yahoo! Messenger is the premier instant messaging (IM) platform" what does "premier" mean?
15:46:01 <clokep> "best" or "first", but that's so not true. ;)
15:46:33 <flo> ok, so it means "bullshit" in this case :)
15:46:38 <clokep> Yes. :)
15:47:07 <clokep> But anyway, apparently you can do the entire Yahoo Messenger over JSON apis now.
15:47:26 <clokep> (Including File transfer, etc.)
15:47:34 <flo> I don't think oauth.js does something that requires almost 500 lines of code
15:48:33 <flo> clokep: "The Yahoo! Messenger IM SDK can be used worldwide except for: (1) residents of the United States and Canada and/or (2) sites or applications directed to users in the United States or Canada. " that's an interesting restriction... :-S
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15:48:56 <clokep> Arg. Guess you'd have to make that protocol, not me. ;)
15:49:36 <clokep> But yes. Very weird restriction. I wonder why...
15:50:09 <flo> so I make it and then pretend users from the US should not download it? ;)
15:51:00 <clokep> Well it's not /specifically/ directed to users in the US/Canada.
15:51:15 <clokep> I wonder if they check IPs or anything.
15:51:16 <flo> it's just an en-US version ;)
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15:54:25 <clokep> Ah true. Guess we'lll have to switch to an en-UK version and change all our colors to colours. :)
15:55:36 <flo> en-GB ;)
15:55:41 <clokep> Yeah, whatever. :P
15:55:51 <clokep> Well anyway, it /was/ a pretty cool thing. :)
15:55:57 <clokep> Do you know how long it takes to hear back about xAuth?
15:56:04 <flo> no
15:56:24 <clokep> And I guess you can't do much until you do...?
15:56:30 <flo> I would assume they are in California so they need to wake-up before replying
15:56:55 <clokep> It's 8:00 there. :) Although software developers are pretty lazy...
15:58:47 <flo> yeah, I would not expect anything before another 2 hours at least
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16:03:43 <clokep> flo: When I have your extension installed...the textbox formatting seems correct when I "go away".
16:04:06 <flo> and?
16:04:18 <clokep> Sorry, I mean the splitter formatting.
16:04:25 <clokep> That issue I was having yesterday.
16:04:46 <flo> this seems useful: http://weblog.bluedonkey.org/?p=959
16:07:06 <clokep> So one page of documentation seems to show you everything that twitter has pages upon pages on and doesn't explain well.
16:07:12 <clokep> Well done. :)
16:08:30 <flo> haven't they made it complicated on purpose, so that people use the existing libraries and don't look at the ugly part? ;)
16:11:29 <clokep> Hah, probably. :)
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17:14:35 <clokep> Who runs instantbot?
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17:34:50 <Mic> Morian
17:36:17 <clokep> Morian, the "today" link for the logs is awesome, except the links on the left side (to link back to a comment) then point to something like http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/today/#m54 which is not a real link back.
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17:38:07 <clokep> Mic did you mean bug 613 to block bug 507? Did you mean for it to depend on it? (We really need a "related to" field I think. :))
17:38:10 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=613 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Presence information on IRC
17:38:11 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=507 enh, --, ---, clokep, NEW, Implement IRC in JavaScript
17:39:23 <Mic> I guess 'depends on'
17:39:58 <Mic> I really should stop filing bugs late at night
17:40:47 <clokep> Bah I just wrote a sentence that wasn't english at all.
17:41:16 <Mic> You mid-aired me
17:41:45 <clokep> :)
17:42:49 <clokep> I'm writing a blog post for you Mic. ;)
17:44:14 <Mic> The js-irc thing?
17:44:36 <Mic> Or one: "How to file good bugs reports?" :P
17:44:42 <Mic> *bug
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17:44:57 <clokep> js-irc. I'm certainly not the one to do one about filing good bug reports!
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17:48:17 <Mic> I'm looking forward to read it.
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19:33:34 <clokep> Mic: http://clokep.blogspot.com/2010/12/why-rewrite-irc-into-javascript.html
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20:04:32 <Mic> Wow, that was long
20:05:00 <Mic> Very nice to read
20:05:39 <clokep> I hope it wasn't too detailed / rambling.
20:06:16 <clokep> / that it made sense hah.
20:09:29 <clokep> Glad you enjoyed it though. :)
20:09:45 <Mic> Yes, absolutely
20:11:04 <Mic> I think we should ask flo to put up a small posting on the project blog, saying that one of the contributors has written a detailed comment on his work and put a link to your blog to it
20:11:50 <clokep> If you're doing that, I have to actually name my blog. ;)
20:13:25 <Mic> I think people should read it. I think it gives a good view
20:13:59 <Mic> How you're working on an own project, planning to make it an add-on before it will be included upstream
20:14:45 <clokep> Should just do a planet.instantbird and make you make a blog too. ;)
20:14:48 <Mic> How you get help in case something doesn't work as expected; Mentioning important parts of the project like the repository, bug tracker, channel, ..
20:15:25 <Mic> I've been seriously considering to create a blog. I just don't know yet if there would be enough things that I could write about
20:15:42 <Mic> but maybe that doesn't even matter in the beginning
20:15:46 <clokep> I pretty much had been considering it and figured this was a good enough reason to (I only have three posts :P)
20:19:06 <Mic> What I wanted to say: in my opinion your posting is interesting for people who are more technically interested in Ib
20:19:44 <Mic> It's not about fancy pictures and stuff ;)
20:20:24 <Mic> So I think we should get those technically and Instantbird interested people to your blog to read it
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20:20:51 <clokep> I agree. I.e. something like planet.instantbird.org would be good, but it'd be silly to have only my blog on it. :P
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20:21:38 <Mic> I think there are other blogs with Instantbird related posting, I think I saw something on your page, Morian?
20:21:59 <clokep> Oh, perhaps. :)
20:23:55 <clokep> Well I mean we could write something up for the blog, I'm not sure I'd be the one to do it. Unless I do a quick "Who am I, this is what you might be interested in" type thing.
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20:26:54 <Mic> brb
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20:41:54 <Mic> Yes, might be better to do something like "one of our contributors has written a detailed comment on his current work for Instantbird and if you're interested in technical things about IRC and how to extend Instantbird with a protocol plugin written in JS then you definitely should go and read it" instead of self-advertising ?
20:41:56 <Mic> -?
20:42:14 <clokep> Exactly my thought. :)
20:42:39 <clokep> Just connect all the sentences you said about it and there's a good paragraph. :P
20:43:16 <Mic> Yes, I thought at least the last thing in quotes was quite acceptable
20:57:56 <Mic> https://wiki.instantbird.org/User:Mic/Announcing_clokeps_blog_posting
20:58:10 <Mic> Just an idea
21:19:05 <clokep> Sounds good, I changed it slightly. ;)
21:31:29 <Mic> flo: what do you think about it?
21:31:57 <Mic> Good evening
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