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00:04:21 <-- clokep has quit (Ping timeout) 00:10:01 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 00:10:01 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 01:01:11 <-- micahg has quit (Ping timeout) 01:12:33 <-- Ornthalas has quit (Quit: KTHXBYE) 03:00:12 --> hicham has joined #instantbird 03:04:07 <-- hicham has quit (Quit: اÙسÙا٠عÙÙÙÙ ) 03:06:09 --> micahg has joined #instantbird 03:29:33 --> mepine has joined #instantbird 03:53:17 --> hicham has joined #instantbird 03:57:49 <-- hicham has quit (Client exited) 04:22:27 --> tymerkaev_away has joined #instantbird 05:10:43 * zz_auscompgeek is now known as auscompgeek 05:14:55 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a1pre) 05:19:40 <-- tymerkaev_away has quit (Ping timeout) 06:48:36 <-- mepine has quit (Ping timeout) 06:53:19 --> mepine has joined #instantbird 07:24:21 <-- mepine has quit (Ping timeout) 07:28:07 --> mepine has joined #instantbird 09:52:05 --> Ornthalas has joined #instantbird 10:04:29 * auscompgeek is now known as zz_auscompgeek 10:31:55 <-- chrisccoulson has quit (Connection reset by peer) 10:33:42 --> chrisccoulson has joined #instantbird 10:52:34 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 10:52:35 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 10:52:44 <Mic> hello 11:01:39 <-- Ornthalas has quit (Quit: KTHXBYE) 11:12:35 <-- mepine has quit (Quit: é¨ç·£ä¹) 12:09:54 --> flo has joined #instantbird 12:09:54 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 12:16:45 --> tymerkaev has joined #instantbird 12:18:52 --> hicham has joined #instantbird 12:21:17 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a1pre) 13:19:17 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 13:19:17 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 13:50:02 --> Ornthalas has joined #instantbird 14:03:22 * Mic just closed his Amazon account giving WikiLeaks as reason ;) 14:20:11 * tymerkaev agree with Mic 14:33:04 --> flo has joined #instantbird 14:33:04 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 14:41:44 <flo> I've played a bit this morning with small conversation windows. 14:42:00 <flo> I'm no longer sure we should get rid of the "Always show the tab bar" option 14:42:30 <flo> when detaching a single conversation to a window and making that window very small, the tab bar is useless and a significant waste (compared to the size of the whole window) 14:43:24 <flo> maybe we can still get rid of that setting by auto-hiding the tab bar if there's a single tab and the window is very small, and preventing new tabs from appearing in an existing tiny window. 14:44:21 <flo> I'm not sure if that's a good anticipation of users' desire or a strange complexification of the behavior that would get in the way. 14:44:43 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 610 filed by benediktp@ymail.com. 14:44:46 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=610 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, /me in notification windows 14:48:48 <Mic> flo: someone suggested we should use tabs in titlebar btw 14:49:03 <Mic> I think it was you, sabret00the_ ? 14:49:12 <clokep> flo: I think that's a strange complexification. :) 14:49:44 <Mic> If the tabs would be either in the title bar or no tabs and a normal titlebar we wouldn't lose anything in any case? 14:49:45 <flo> clokep: have you ever used such a small window? 14:52:16 <-- clokep has quit (Ping timeout) 15:00:41 <Mic> How small actually? 15:01:58 <flo> small enough that the tab bar isn't usable and the status bar is a pain 15:03:02 <-- Mic has left #instantbird () 15:03:10 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 15:03:10 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 15:03:15 <-- Mic has left #instantbird () 15:03:21 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 15:03:22 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 15:03:31 <flo> something like: http://queze.net/goinfre/tiny-window.png 15:04:08 <Mic> Not even the simple theme is suitable for this :( 15:05:32 <flo> It's possible I pushed the resizing a bit too far ;) 15:05:48 <flo> but you get the idea, a size where every single pixel counts 15:07:03 <Mic> yes 15:07:23 <flo> I'm not sure of how many users actually do that 15:07:45 <flo> I suspect there will be a lot more if we ever add an "always on top" option 15:08:47 <flo> and there are also those users that put the conversation (and even buddy list!) window full screen... 15:09:06 <Mic> Have you seen this actually? 15:09:10 <flo> I've seen someone using WLM last week 15:09:17 <flo> full screen buddy list 15:09:22 <flo> full screen conversation window 15:09:51 <flo> both of these window with a customized background color and image (and some of the most horrible taste possible to do that...) 15:09:54 <Mic> A few days I ago I argued with clokep about an Instantbird application button and there was the idea to hide the maximize button because it's more or less useless there and saves space 15:10:01 <flo> and a browser (I think it was IE) with facebook chat. 15:10:10 <flo> alt-tabbing between those 3 windows 15:10:35 <Mic> The latter is ok, in my opininon 15:10:51 <Mic> Having to switch between ctrl+tab and tab+tab is a bigger problem in my opinion 15:11:00 <flo> I was 5 meters behind, thinking "wow, if someone told me that can happen, I would probably not have believed it" 15:12:20 <flo> the conversation window was using the full screen, and the text of the messages was barely readable (small red comics sans ms above a pink background I think) 15:14:14 <Mic> Now you're making things up, aren't you? :P 15:14:36 <Mic> No, I've seen such customisation as well 15:14:51 <Mic> And some people even sending their fonts and colors to others :( 15:15:13 <flo> after thinking a bit about it, I thought: we really *need* personna before we can even show Instantbird to these people 15:15:55 <Mic> If you want to target those people: yes 15:16:17 <flo> I think we do 15:17:41 <flo> (and we need twitter for the more technology oriented people who are likely to install Instantbird on the computer of these users) 15:18:41 --> Andrey has joined #instantbird 15:18:59 <-- hicham has quit (Client exited) 15:22:14 <Mic> Maybe we should include a theme with colorful animated gradients :P 15:22:17 <Mic> bbl 15:25:36 <flo> :) 15:36:52 <sabret00the_> Yep Mic, it was me that suggested we use tabs in the titlebar 15:36:57 <flo> aha, it's the patch from https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=600433 that breaks our mac nightlies! 15:48:27 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 15:48:27 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 15:48:41 <clokep> flo: No. I've never used such a small window. 15:49:00 <flo> clokep: so the behavior would not be confusing, you would just *never* notice it 15:49:05 <clokep> :) 15:49:29 <flo> the current pref is confusing because you can wonder what it's for and that's a waste of time ;) 15:50:46 <clokep> I think it should just be get rid of the tabbar if you don't use tabbed windows? 15:52:16 <flo> we should do that automatically and disable the pref checkbox when tabs are disabled 15:52:48 <flo> but the pref is useful for people who sometimes detach a conversation to a separate window, but still want to use tabs in the first window 15:54:03 <clokep> flo: The patch that went in to change the size of the mac splitter...? 15:54:07 <clokep> Did that affect windows at all? 15:54:18 <flo> it shouldn't 15:54:19 <flo> why? 15:54:34 <flo> the splitter should probably be reduced there too by the way 15:54:51 <clokep> I think it looks strange now... 15:54:59 <clokep> One second. 15:55:38 <clokep> (It might also be Vertical Tabs doing it?) 15:56:06 <flo> Mic: I'm about to push 2 changesets. Should I push the string changes too or wait for use to further discuss what we want to do in that bug or another bug about the tabs preferences? 15:56:16 <flo> *us 15:56:47 <clokep> flo: https://wiki.instantbird.org/File:Splitter.png 15:57:23 <flo> you have a customized show nick? :) 15:57:51 <clokep> flo: Yes, it looked really bad with the simple theme. I have the patch on my other computer, but didn't think it was feasible to include at all. 15:58:53 <flo> maybe we should add the HTML markup around nicks by default, and let message themes include something for it or not in their CSS 15:59:45 <flo> clokep: is that screenshot with the default theme? 16:00:02 <clokep> flo: Yes, default theme, but with Vertical Tabs, but I'm 99% sure I don't touch that splitter. 16:00:42 --> kaie has joined #instantbird 16:00:46 <flo> your screenshot looks as if there was a -moz-appearance: none on the textbox, but in the patch it's clearly inside an #ifdef XP_MACOSX block: https://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/30e06bddc097 16:03:19 <clokep> Yes, it seems to be in ifdef XP_MACOSX...hmm...:-\ 16:05:28 <clokep> I'll restart in safe mode, one second. 16:05:33 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a1pre) 16:06:00 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 16:06:00 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 16:06:25 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a1pre) 16:06:37 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 16:06:38 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 16:07:50 <clokep> flo: https://wiki.instantbird.org/File:Splitter-SafeMode.png 16:08:05 <clokep> Mic are you seeing anything like this on Windows? (Are you on the latest nightly?) 16:08:58 <flo> clokep: I've just upgraded my Windows nightly and it looks correct 16:09:11 <flo> the textbox has it's native (blue :-S) border 16:09:22 <clokep> Windows XP? 16:09:26 <flo> yes 16:09:45 <clokep> Could be a difference between XP & 7? 16:09:59 <flo> maybe 16:10:12 <flo> do you see this with a clean profile too? 16:10:28 <clokep> Bah now you're making me try difficult things. ;) 16:10:31 <clokep> Give me a minute. 16:10:32 <flo> someone should create an add-on "start with a clean profile" :) 16:11:14 <flo> clokep: you made me use Windows to verify, that was difficult. :-P 16:12:18 --> clokep_clean has joined #instantbird 16:12:27 <clokep> flo: Same thing with clean profile. 16:12:41 <clokep> Do you want another screenshot? ;) It looks the same. 16:13:31 <flo> tss 16:13:38 <-- clokep_clean has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a1pre) 16:14:31 <clokep> Is it something in the aero theme difference? I'm not sure exactly how all those if-defs work, etc. 16:15:14 <flo> isn't the file the same for aero? 16:15:37 <clokep> I'm not sure. :) Who else uses Windows here? 16:16:08 <clokep> (Also, re bug 609 I'm pretty sure I'm having a painting issue.) 16:16:11 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=609 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, New tab don't show up 16:16:13 * Mic , but I'd need to upgrade Ib and would lose some customized things 16:16:31 <clokep> I disabled d2d, I couldn't find the layers pref. :) 16:16:57 <clokep> Mic: Don't worry about it. :) (Unless you really want to download the zip and run that. ;)) 16:17:25 <Mic> flo: I think it wouldn't really hurt to push the patch, since I have no idea how long it is before we change something there? 16:17:38 <flo> ok 16:18:11 <Mic> I mean in worst case we just have an extra changeset in the repository this way? 16:18:40 <clokep> Also flo I'm on 20101206041818, but that should include the update? 16:20:32 <clokep> flo: I'll take a look at my files and stuff about the textbox in a little while (working on something right now). 16:20:36 <clokep> You can go work on Twitter. ;) 16:24:26 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 611 filed by florian@instantbird.org. 16:24:29 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=611 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Handle the "blank slate" gracefully 16:26:46 <-- clokep has quit (Ping timeout) 16:29:00 --> Even has joined #instantbird 16:29:00 * ChanServ sets mode +o Even 16:29:56 <flo> clokep: I'm afraid twitter will have to wait, I've got to go ;) 16:30:10 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 387 to FIXED. 16:30:15 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=387 tri, --, 0.3a1, benediktp, RESO FIXED, Make wording of "Use separate windows.." setting less ambiguous 16:30:45 <flo> Good evening :) 16:30:53 <Mic> Good evening 16:30:56 <-- flo has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a1pre) 16:32:01 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/63c39fefeaff - Florian Quèze - Fix ppc/i386 Mac universal build by locally backing out 885574b5c18c from bug 600433. 16:32:02 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/aaf9943749ab - Benedikt P. - Bug 387 - Make wording of 'Use separate windows..' setting less ambiguous. r=fqueze 16:32:03 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/a2687b36dadd - Florian Quèze - Auto-hide the status bar of conversation windows when the window's height is very small. 16:33:54 --> kaie2 has joined #instantbird 16:36:15 <-- kaie has quit (Ping timeout) 16:36:15 * kaie2 is now known as kaie 16:37:39 <-- Jan has quit (Ping timeout) 16:38:12 --> Jan has joined #instantbird 16:38:43 * Jan is now known as IRCMonkey44263 16:49:39 * IRCMonkey44263 is now known as Jan 16:49:42 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 16:49:42 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 16:50:00 <Mic> flo: I read a few sections of "Getting Real" and it seems like a good idea to have a closer look. Thanks for sharing 17:04:55 <-- Even has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a1pre) 17:21:27 <clokep> Mic: https://wiki.instantbird.org/Brainstorm:general_brainstorming#Contacts_-_.22level_of_interest.22 ;) Interesting idea, maybe incorporated into Buddy Status? :) 17:23:19 <Mic> I'll check that later (dinner) 17:24:28 <clokep> You wrote it. :) 17:24:36 <-- micahg has quit (Connection reset by peer) 17:27:54 --> micahg has joined #instantbird 17:29:31 <-- skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2) 17:34:27 --> skeledrew has joined #instantbird 17:34:41 <-- micahg has quit (Ping timeout) 17:38:36 <clokep> I've updated a lot of https://wiki.instantbird.org/User:Clokep/Contributors_Blog_Entry if people want to look it over again. It might be a bad time to post it though (mid-December)? 17:39:13 --> micahg has joined #instantbird 17:42:41 <-- tymerkaev has quit (Ping timeout) 17:47:34 <-- Andrey has quit (Connection reset by peer) 18:00:28 <Mic> bah, "Search keyword are intended to be unique" said someone on BMO. What a pity! It would be so nice if you could give the same keyword to several searchs and search google, bing, yahoo at the same time while opening the wikipedia article for the search term 18:01:55 <Mic> bah, "Search keyword are intended to be unique" said someone on BMO. What a pity! It would be so nice if you could give the same keyword to several searchs and search google, bing, yahoo at the same time while opening the corresponding wikipedia article 18:02:26 <Mic> ups, sorry. I was under the mistaken impression that I hadn't posted this yet 18:02:41 <Mic> Yes, the interest in contacts is a nice thing 18:04:53 <Mic> HTML on the wiki is impractical 18:04:53 <clokep> What? 18:05:52 <clokep> Yes, it is. :-\ 18:05:55 <clokep> I used http://htmledit.squarefree.com/ 18:06:59 <Mic> c/p to an html file on my desktop was good enough 18:07:23 <clokep> :) 18:19:38 <-- micahg has quit (Ping timeout) 18:29:24 <Mic> I'm not so convinced of the posting proposal, shouldn't we try to make it really awesome (scnr) so people say "wow, I need to check that out?" 18:29:55 <Mic> Maybe having several parts, one related to bugfixing, one to new features, one for add-on contributions? 18:30:28 <clokep> Possible. I'm reading it over again right now, but mostly just grammar stuff. 18:30:35 <Mic> Spicing it up with a few images, e.g. one like this: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jigsaw.png 18:30:45 <clokep> Yes I think it needs images. 18:30:46 <Mic> And adding a big "Your extension" 18:31:09 <Mic> on one of the pieces, maybe a bit elevated so it looks like there's one more piece going to be added in a moment? 18:31:42 <clokep> Splitting it up might be a good way to do it. 18:31:48 <clokep> Didn't want to make it too long. 18:32:13 <Mic> http://community.wikia.com/wiki/File:Squashed_bug_cartoon.jpg 18:32:29 <Mic> well, the images would need to be awesome though ;) 18:32:49 <Mic> Same style best, but I think we don't have the resources to do such a thing :( 18:33:49 <clokep> Resources to do what such a thing? 18:34:49 <Mic> Just having someone paint a nice picture or icon for a blog posting 18:36:00 <clokep> Oh. Yeah. :-\ I don't think so. 18:36:29 <clokep> What do you think of "We're eager to have new participants join us." is the "We're" OK? 18:43:23 <Mic> Meditate on this, I will ;) 18:43:24 <Mic> bbl 18:48:39 <clokep> Splitting it into sections might be good. 18:48:45 <clokep> Maybe even just splitting the list into three lists? 18:52:43 <-- clokep has quit (Ping timeout) 19:10:00 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 19:10:00 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 19:19:32 <Mic> Yes, I meant moving parts of the list to different sections up there 19:20:06 <Mic> What is bugfixing? What are ideas for extensions? New features .., so on 19:20:25 <Mic> Would be easier to adress common questions to these categories then 19:20:49 <clokep> Wait. I think you're disagreeing w/ me. 19:22:11 <clokep> Hmm...OK. 19:22:24 <clokep> So jus tchanging the list to sections though, not actually including a definition for "bugfixing"? 19:23:23 <Mic> ok, let me be the idea guy once again :P 19:24:28 <Mic> We could have a three column body of the posting, with a related image spanning the column header, some descriptive text and the list with possible tasks below 19:24:56 <Mic> Maybe a "More..." link leading to the wiki article with the extension wishlist for one and something for the others 19:25:12 <clokep> I'm just confused at whether you want to split the list only or the entire article into three separate parts. ;) 19:25:44 <Mic> The one article with three sections, each having its own list of tasks 19:26:05 <Mic> + nice looking + awesome :P 19:26:42 <clokep> Right, right. :p 19:26:57 <clokep> I was debating about splitting it up into groups that have to do with each other (Conversation stuff, Buddy stuff, etc.) 19:27:25 <clokep> But maybe doing it by bugs vs. extensions vs. features might be better. 19:41:23 --> micahg has joined #instantbird 19:55:27 --> hicham has joined #instantbird 20:08:10 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a1pre) 20:08:44 --> Mic has joined #instantbird 20:08:44 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 20:12:56 <Mic> clokep: should we add bug 503 as well? 20:12:59 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=503 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Improving Sounds 20:13:04 <Mic> Would be something completely different 20:13:46 <Mic> Or bug 488 for someone talented with graphics? 20:13:51 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=488 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Missing Commonly Used Emoticon 20:14:46 <clokep> Added them. 20:20:35 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 612 filed by benediktp@ymail.com. 20:20:37 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=612 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Status icon should display if the account of a conversation is connected or not 20:21:04 <Mic> This might be a duplicate but though 20:21:10 <Mic> -but 20:22:11 --> GeekShadow has joined #instantbird 20:24:03 <Mic> ah :S 20:24:07 <Mic> bug 520 ? 20:24:11 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=520 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Unable to tell if a MUC is connected 20:25:10 <instantbot> benediktp@ymail.com set the Resolution field on bug 612 to DUPLICATE of bug 520. 20:25:13 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=612 min, --, ---, nobody, RESO DUPLICATE, Status icon should display if the account of a conversation is connected or not 20:32:18 <clokep> Yup. :) Seems like it'd be easy to fix once we have an image? 21:04:32 <-- micahg has quit (Ping timeout) 21:16:43 --> micahg has joined #instantbird 21:58:11 <Mic> yes, the images are the only problem as it seems 22:25:54 <-- kaie has quit (Quit: Leaving) 22:41:31 <-- clokep has quit (Ping timeout) 22:57:38 --> clokep has joined #instantbird 22:57:39 * ChanServ sets mode +h clokep 23:02:04 <-- GeekShadow has quit (Ping timeout) 23:02:08 --> GeekShadow has joined #instantbird 23:13:14 <-- clokep has quit (Ping timeout) 23:17:13 --> rikki has joined #instantbird 23:35:07 --> Mic1 has joined #instantbird 23:35:08 <-- Mic has quit (Connection reset by peer) 23:40:54 <instantbot> New purplexpcom - General bug 613 filed by benediktp@ymail.com. 23:40:57 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=613 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Presence information on IRC 23:45:44 <Mic1> /users 23:45:48 <Mic1> msg mic