#instantbird log on 12 03 2010

All times are UTC.

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04:11:04 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 607 filed by Prescience500@gmail.com.
04:11:14 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=607 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Support Buddy Pounces
04:58:32 <clokep> I could have sworn we had a buddy pounce bug somewhere already, maybe it was only on the wiki?
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09:34:06 <kuato-AR> hi !
09:34:58 <flo> hello
09:36:40 <kuato-AR> hi flo
09:38:30 <kuato-AR> Is there any working "minimize to tray" addon to use with the 0.3a1pre version ?
09:39:16 <flo> I don't know :-S.
09:40:04 <kuato-AR> @_@
09:40:28 <flo> I'm on Mac and "minimize to tray" doesn't make much sense there ;)
09:41:16 <kuato-AR> {-_-}
09:42:41 <kuato-AR> thanks for you time anyway :P
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10:06:19 <Mic> hello
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10:34:51 <iLobster> Greetings
10:39:11 <iLobster> That application button thingy (https://wiki.instantbird.org/images/5/51/Application_Button.png) looks cool ^^ . Agree that the button is too high, but it's looks cool anyway.
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10:55:24 <Mic> It's only Windows XP that has problems with the height
10:56:07 <Mic> I don't know what should go into this menu. I doesn't make sense to stuff everything just into a different menu
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11:28:47 <iLobster> Why not to transfer all existing menus into button? I mean | File | Tools | Help | that are in horizontal line now.
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11:33:11 * flo wonders if his comment in bug 607 is understandable
11:33:15 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=607 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Support Buddy Pounces
11:35:33 <Mic> :)
11:36:25 <Mic> I imagined something similiar for that (having in mind the trigger/rules in editors of some strategy games, where you can define an action depending on an event and some conditions)
11:36:39 <Mic> The old Stracraft editor had something like this
11:36:51 <flo> the pidgin dialog for buddy pounces is horrible
11:37:01 <flo> it took me several attempts to understand it the first time I used it
11:37:08 <flo> well, it was the gaim dialog at the time ^^
11:38:57 <flo> I'm not sure if we should include that by default if we manage to get a decent UI for it, or if it would still be better to have that as an addon
11:40:15 <iLobster> Am i understand right that that "buddy pounce" is something like script that constantly looking for some special event (if - buddy went online for example) and after that make it work (then format c: for example)?
11:40:28 <Mic> lol
11:41:17 <flo> by the way, something I was wondering: are all the events we should care about coming from buddies?
11:41:54 <flo> I'm sure some people would like to do some action "when my account <account>" connects (especially for IRC), but I'm not sure if we should try to stuff that use case into the same UI or not
11:42:57 * tymerkaev is now known as tymerkaev_away
11:43:23 <Mic> Do you want the rules to have a given pattern?
11:43:47 <Mic> I.e. showing the boxes in advance or successively depending on what the user chose before?
11:44:42 <flo> only when needed
11:45:01 <flo> and I think there would be a "+" (or "or" / "and") button to click to add another condition/action.
11:47:38 * tymerkaev_away is now known as tymerkaev
11:50:48 <Mic> I meant the next box(es) appearing when the user chose from the previous boxes ( might be problematic when the user decides to change some earlier choice to something incompatible with the later choices: would be clean the boxes, save them if the user decides to go back to the first choice, ..?
11:51:16 <flo> save them in a temporary variable
11:51:43 <flo> there was a similar issue in the account wizard with protocols having different advanced options ;)
11:51:50 <flo> if the user goes back and selects another protocol
11:52:14 <Mic> because then we could e.g. add "I" to the list
11:52:41 <Mic> and show a "sign on/off using <account>" piece on that choice
11:54:06 <flo> hmm, Whenever I (using flo@irc.m.o) goes online send "instantbot: how are you?" in #instantbird
11:56:11 <Mic> Yes, for example
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11:57:00 <Mic> allowing to set a status on some event?
11:57:10 <flo> why not?
11:57:17 <hicham> good morning
11:57:21 <Mic> hi
11:57:23 <flo> hicham: hello :)
11:58:16 <hicham> flo : po2prop didn't work to convert purple's po files into mozilla's .properties ?
11:59:01 <flo> did it exist at the time?
11:59:20 <flo> from what I read when I saw your link, it would have done only part of the job
11:59:40 <flo> it would work for the localized .properties file, but not the en-US ones.
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12:26:58 <Mic> "All in One" is very WIP, isn't it?
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12:43:52 <flo> Mic: it was, yes
12:43:56 <flo> I don't know if it still works
12:59:22 <flo> It probably needs some adjustments (simplifications!) after the buddy list rewrite
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13:20:38 <Mic> What about trying to recruit contributors more actively (I'm strictly against shanghaiing though :P)?
13:21:18 <flo> suggestions of ways to do so?
13:21:22 <Mic> Like a blog posting that contains a few tasks that might be easy to accomplish for someone new to Instantbird?
13:21:59 <flo> I think I'll give a high priority in my todo list to "open all the parts of the project that are closed"
13:22:05 <Mic> of course interesting enough to pick them ;)
13:22:08 <flo> I'm especially thinking of the mailing list, etc...
13:22:24 <flo> all the ways I gather information or can do things that are not public
13:23:04 <flo> of course, it raises interesting questions like "what are the requirements to get commit access to the main repository?" "to be a reviewer on addons.instantbird.org?" etc...
13:23:21 <flo> to be able to accept/reject comments on the blog
13:23:37 <clokep> Don't you just need to be "awesome" to do those things? ;)
13:24:02 <Mic> Sure, and don't forget to be awesome, John :P
13:24:41 * clokep is trying to load the logs to see the first half of this conversation.
13:24:41 <flo> and if there are things that we can't open (yet) (obviously there will be some), at least state publicly somewhere (wiki page?) why it's not currently possible
13:24:59 <flo> clokep: there was no first half
13:25:14 <clokep> Oh, OK. :)
13:25:28 <clokep> We would also need a list of things that can be worked on, that's no trivial to make.
13:25:42 <clokep> (And you have to assume you'll be supporting people working on things that don't know what's up.)
13:25:56 <clokep> (Re Mic's idea about a blog post with things to work on.)
13:27:35 <flo> Mic: "of course interesting enough to pick them ;)" this may not be as easy as it sounds.
13:27:49 <flo> do we have any idea of what motivate people to do things?
13:29:11 <clokep> Candy?
13:29:22 <clokep> Generally if people REALLY want a feature it'll motivate them.
13:29:23 <flo> I guess some will have an itch to scratch (= whatever we propose, the only way they can begin is by finding something that hurts themselves in their daily usage), some would love to have their name listed somewhere
13:30:41 <flo> it's somewhat of a paradox, but I'm almost sure that if we lowered the quality of our nightly builds, by landing features before they are polished enough to "fully work", some people would come and sort out the details/polish work for us.
13:31:16 <flo> we have seen a little of that with the new tabs and the pref window for 0.2
13:31:52 <clokep> Interestingly, I was talking to one of my friends who's jobless and told him he should take a look at the bugs list, so I gave him a list and he said they were all either too trivial (and thus not interesting) or too hard.
13:32:28 <flo> nothing is interesting if you are not interested ;)
13:32:51 <flo> we need "self-motivated" people, and that's not so common
13:33:50 <flo> the things people do need to be challenging but doable.
13:34:14 <clokep> I think it might be worth it to make a list of 5 - 10 things that we'd like people to work on though? Throw it up in a blog post (we need to do one anyway?) Perhaps get some Fx add-on authors who are too scared to entire the real application to come help us out? :-D
13:34:37 <flo> we need to ensure we don't take too much fun out of it by giving early the solution of "how it should be implemented", but don't let people waste their time either with stupid implementation ideas that won't fly
13:36:02 <flo> so, how do we make that list? extract the most interesting things from the extension_wish_list?
13:36:59 <clokep> Brainstorm and make another wikipage? :)
13:37:47 <flo> I fear people need to feel it's their own idea to be motivated
13:38:52 <flo> I'm likely to have a (few) student(s) for CoMETE (http://comete.info.univ-evry.fr/) projects again this year, so I need projects for them too
13:39:30 <flo> the buddy pounce thing looks ok for such a project: it's easy to quickly get something that "just work", and then there's lots of details to think about to get a good UI.
13:40:12 <clokep> :)
13:40:25 <clokep> Have one of them work on system tray?  ;)
13:40:53 <flo> is this something that we could use some crappy code for? ;)
13:41:09 * clokep is writing up a blog entry.
13:41:40 <flo> if I need to explain them in details how to do it, then understand crappy code, then fix the code, then fully rewrite it because their implementation sucks... bleah
13:41:54 <flo> I would rather have them work on something that is not supposed to become a default feature soon ;)
13:42:27 <clokep> :)
13:42:39 <clokep> Rewriting the log viewer?
13:42:43 <clokep> Idk how complicated that is.
13:42:51 <flo> that's useless :(
13:43:07 <clokep> I'm out of ideas. ;)
13:43:21 <flo> I'd like to remove it completely from the application :-P
13:43:28 <flo> why would we need a log viewer at all?
13:44:12 <flo> can't the history just scroll back "infinitely" and the findbar search the whole contact history in conversation windows?
13:45:36 <flo> (of course, there are lots of tricky details to address before being able to do that. An interesting one is adding messages at the top of the conversation without breaking message themes)
13:46:05 <flo> another (related to the way we store logs) is having a full text index of all conversations so that we get the search results "immediately"
13:46:27 <clokep> Something like this: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/493
13:46:43 <clokep> That would bea wesome. :) Can we have it limit by date range too though? That's a big help in the current implementation.
13:48:12 <flo> showing the date of each search result in a useful way is obviously the problematic part of that UI proposal
13:49:22 <flo> that may require creating a customized scrollbar that would show the date of the result in a tooltip
13:49:39 <flo> or maybe put something in an area similar to the current nicklist of chats with kind of a timeline
13:50:48 <flo> clokep: I like most of your proposal. But not the very first sentence. We don't want to "add them in the list" ;)
13:51:18 <clokep> Yeah, well. :P It was a first draft. ;) Do you have a better sentence?
13:51:29 <clokep> Maybe just 'help us out' or something?
13:51:34 <flo> join
13:51:51 <Mic> Join / Participate
13:51:57 <flo> We are eager to help new contributors join us
13:52:01 <Mic> It's not only about us getting their help
13:52:06 <Mic> but them getting part of it imo
13:52:38 <flo> yeah, they need to feel they would "be part of something" :)
13:52:45 <Mic> I'd also think it might be good to put some things into context (e.g. like the dependencies on Bugzilla)
13:53:00 <Mic> If this and this and that is fixed THEN we can add this or that great feature
13:53:14 <Mic> So it's small achievable goals on the way to something awesome
13:53:32 <Mic> brb
13:53:42 <flo> I'm afraid there will be lots of "hard details" in the way for several great features. Like what I've just mentioned about the logs.
13:54:10 <flo> things that have been "mostly unexplored" may be easier
13:55:02 <flo> like the systray icon (using js ctypes), adding things to the win7 dock, starting the application at startup automatically
13:58:06 <clokep> flo: Any ideas how to make them feel part of something? :)
13:58:25 <clokep> Mic: What do you mean listing dependencies on Bugzilla? Do you just mean transporting stuff from the wiki so we can show what needs to be done first?
13:58:56 <Mic> These are tasks for programmers who are thirsty for adventures ;)
13:59:24 <Mic> ah, my dictionary says "have a thirst for "
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14:01:29 <felipechile> hello, I want to know how to translate the program to Spanish and upload it to the servers
14:01:37 <Mic> Hi
14:02:26 <felipechile> h
14:02:42 <Mic> flo: what about the spanish locale?
14:02:59 <clokep> Ah apparently we just need to summon contributors. ;)
14:03:03 <clokep> Hello. :)
14:03:15 <felipechile> Hello
14:03:19 <flo> Mic: it will be released in 0.2.1
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14:03:46 <flo> hmm
14:04:48 <Mic> clokep: the dependencies were only an example for a sort of structured task
14:04:58 <flo> I already need to go through all open bugs to triage what is 0.3 blocking/wanted/nice-to-have/ whatever. Maybe I should also add "[helpwanted]" to the whiteboard for bugs that could use external help (= explaining what to do there is not longer than doing it myself)
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14:10:55 <clokep> Mic: Got it. Thanks. :)
14:11:04 <clokep> flo, So where does that leave felipechile then? :)
14:11:21 <clokep> Who left already, never mind. :-D
14:11:24 <flo> clokep: at "left the room (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)."
14:11:31 <clokep> Yes, sorry about that.
14:18:48 <clokep> Cleaned it up a little bit, feel free to edit https://wiki.instantbird.org/User:Clokep/Contributors_Blog_Entry
14:22:21 <Mic> Didn't we have a jumplist bug somewhere?
14:22:46 <clokep> Possibly. I don't know.
14:23:24 <Mic> I'm not sure if I like to link to bug 151 :D
14:23:30 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=151 enh, --, 0.2, nobody, NEW, Create a Tray Icon. SINGLE-click on tray icon opens and closes Instantbird.
14:24:13 <clokep> It has good info, and a lot of junk too. :-\
14:25:24 <Mic> At least we know "An add-on does not suffice. Fixing this bug would suffice" :P
14:26:56 <Mic> tymerkaev: haven't you filed a request about Windows 7 jumplists once ?
14:27:10 <Mic> I really can't find the bug but I think it had one?
14:27:22 <tymerkaev> I can't remember
14:27:24 <clokep> Mic: i looked briefly, didn't find one.
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14:28:41 <tymerkaev> Mic/clokep: you may file this one.
14:29:03 <clokep> Can I call nose goes on that? (Is that a thing outside of the US?)
14:30:08 <flo> I didn't remember that "funny" conversation in bug 151
14:30:11 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=151 enh, --, 0.2, nobody, NEW, Create a Tray Icon. SINGLE-click on tray icon opens and closes Instantbird.
14:32:18 <flo> clokep: the transition from "you're currently an add-on author and haven't quite been able to start working on the main application, here's your chance" to "take a look at our extension wishlist" is a bit strange ;)
14:32:36 <clokep> Yeah, it sounds terrible. It's probably a run on.
14:32:48 <Mic> I don't think that trivial or minor bugs necessarily means that it is an bug that is easy to fix
14:33:15 <clokep> Trivial should be easy to fix. :) I just grabbed one of my bugzilla searches.
14:33:43 <flo> I suspect those that are really completely trivial are already fixed
14:33:54 <clokep> Not all of them I don't think? :)
14:36:09 <Mic> Has anyone used the importance of bugs in Bugzilla seriously btw?
14:36:22 <clokep> I do on occasion. :)
14:36:55 <flo> bug 260 and bug 552 are the only trivial in the sense "easy to fix" that I've seen in that list
14:36:59 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=260 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Pasting in the conversation input box doesn't send typing notifications
14:37:00 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=552 tri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Lower border of messagestyle preview broken
14:37:07 <flo> the others are trivial in the sense "not worth much of our time"
14:37:25 <clokep> Hmmm...OK. We can remove that link.
14:37:39 <Mic> I think I looked into 260 once
14:37:50 <flo> bug 294 !
14:37:53 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=294 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Handle the case where no logs are available
14:37:58 <clokep> bug 405, why did we close that as WONTFIX? I feel like it just needs a bunch done on it before we can actually work on it.
14:38:02 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=405 enh, --, ---, nobody, RESO WONTFIX, Create links on channel names mentioned in IRC conversations
14:38:15 <flo> that's easy to fix now that we are no longer using the libpurple logger
14:39:09 <flo> bug 325 looks fixed :)
14:39:13 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=325 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Unresponsiveness when turning on the display of offline buddies
14:39:18 <flo> and that was certainly not trivial to fix :)
14:39:47 <flo> bug 335 is worth fixing, but we probably need to rewrite all the offline status handling anyway
14:39:51 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=335 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Going offline should stop reconnection timers
14:39:58 <flo> bug 345 looks easy
14:40:02 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=345 tri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Changing the selected emoticons theme should refresh the message theme preview
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14:41:32 <instantbot> benediktp@ymail.com cleared the Resolution 'WONTFIX' from bug 405.
14:41:38 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=405 enh, --, ---, nobody, REOP, Create links on channel names mentioned in IRC conversations
14:41:56 <Mic> flo: can you use emoticon themes other than the current preference?
14:42:31 <flo> bug 460 could be easy if we get all the relevant data first
14:42:38 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=460 min, --, 0.3a1, nobody, NEW, Short some window titles to match in the titlebar
14:42:51 <flo> Mic: I don't think so.
14:42:52 <flo> arg :(
14:43:07 <flo> ok, it's not that trivial to fix
14:43:53 <flo> tymerkaev: could we know what you are cleaning up exactly in bug 585 please?
14:43:57 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=585 min, --, ---, tymerkaev, ASSI, CSS cleanup
14:44:47 <tymerkaev> http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/101123/#m149
14:46:59 <clokep> Be back in a bit.
14:47:39 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 403 to INVALID.
14:47:42 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=403 min, --, ---, nobody, RESO INVALID, Netsoul rfc compliance issue
14:47:55 <flo> tymerkaev: yeah, and especially http://log.bezut.info/instantbird/101123/#m155
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14:50:06 <tymerkaev> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/themes/conversation.css#43 margin: 0;
14:50:15 <tymerkaev> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/themes/conversation.css#39 same
14:50:27 <tymerkaev> #64#65 same
14:51:21 <tymerkaev> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/themes/accounts.css#66 border-radius instead
14:51:39 <Mic> Ah, what about adding it to the bug instead?
14:52:21 <tymerkaev> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/themes/accounts.css#82 missing semicolon
14:53:07 <tymerkaev> #163 - remove this
14:53:38 <tymerkaev> include shared.inc instead for mac styles
14:54:09 <tymerkaev> flo: do you need more examples?
14:56:18 <flo> tymerkaev: ok. As Mic said, that would be better in the bug itself, so that we don't loose track of it ;).
14:56:56 <flo> it you want to remove the -moz prefix on border-radius, maybe you can also do it for box-shadow :)
14:59:01 <Mic> I think lxr could be helpful to spot some of these things
14:59:07 <Mic> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/search?string=margin%3A+0+0
14:59:58 <Mic> Or looking for the "-moz-" prefix to have a list that you only need to look through
15:00:30 <flo> you can also look for all the "0px" :-D
15:00:41 <tymerkaev> I'm already know about any things which have been changed
15:00:59 <tymerkaev> you don't need to say me anything
15:01:09 <flo> but if we do mass changes like that in files that we have just copied (aboutDialog.css, credits.xhtml, ...), I'm not sure we are really improving the situation
15:02:18 <tymerkaev> your opinion?
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15:05:57 <Mic> Seems we have things not localized in the logger: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/components/logger.js#119
15:08:06 <flo> I think this is "part of the log format" ;)
15:10:19 <Mic> Ah, 'a feature') ;)
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17:23:49 <clokep> flo: In terms of mass changing things we copied...have they been updated since they were added to Instantbird? It's possible those things were removed in mozilla-central?
17:24:07 <flo> no. Yes. ;).
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17:25:29 <flo> I've spent literally hours on the CSS of an add-on that just took me 13 lines of code (and less than 20 minutes) to code.
17:26:40 <Mic> Ah? What was so complicated about it?
17:27:05 <flo> the CSS change is a fix for a long standing issue I had in the conversation window. (may be mac-only though)
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17:28:15 <flo> http://queze.net/goinfre/new-add-on.png
17:28:24 <flo> I'm looking for a name for this in order to package it :-)
17:29:03 <clokep> Null Protocol? :)
17:29:04 <flo> It basically changes the background of the textbox to something that should remind the user of the current status, and that it's probably not appropriate to talk while having a "busy" status
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17:29:13 <clokep> Ohhh.
17:29:27 <clokep> You suld do colors like they have in the add-on manager w/ nice stripes and such. ;)
17:29:30 <clokep> Maybe some gradients. :P
17:29:51 <flo> red for busy/away, orange for idle, grey for offline/invisible, transparent (= do not bother the user) for available
17:30:20 <flo> it's just the very first attempt ;)
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17:32:21 <flo> the hard CSS work was getting rid of the native Mac theme of the textbox (which imposes a white background behind the blue focus ring) and recreate it with CSS.
17:33:28 <flo> and this was also an opportunity to shrink the ugly splitter (it wasn't possible before because the native textbox prevented the mouse event from reaching the splitter in the 5 bottom pixels of it)
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17:34:02 <Mic> Something different: do we need a statusbar on the buddy list btw?
17:34:19 <Mic> We're not using it at the moment (beside having the resizer there)
17:35:25 <flo> we still want to put an icon for each account there
17:35:40 <flo> I think so at least :-S
17:36:09 <flo> clokep: do you know how I can find what the new add-on manager does?
17:36:18 <clokep> flo: What do you mean by "does"?
17:36:26 <flo> for the "nice" colors
17:37:08 <Mic> I think I could look up the UI guide which contains color codes and stuff
17:37:19 <clokep> flo: There was a post about it on planet I think?
17:37:20 <Mic> I think jboriss posted it somewhere
17:37:26 <flo> I would prefer code to copy/paste :)
17:37:31 <clokep> http://jboriss.wordpress.com/2010/11/04/add-on-manager-design-update/
17:37:36 <clokep> Ah. Haha.
17:37:38 <Mic> extension.css I guess
17:37:38 <clokep> Let m esee.
17:37:46 <flo> I'm in http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/toolkit/themes/pinstripe/mozapps/extensions/extensions.css#209 already
17:38:22 <flo> oooh, "@media all and (max-width: 800px) {", that's very interesting!
17:39:54 <clokep> flo: Do you want me to find a bug #? :)
17:40:16 <Mic> I think it's the class "addon" and "addon-view"
17:40:22 <Mic> *classes
17:40:39 <Mic> Around here http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/toolkit/themes/pinstripe/mozapps/extensions/extensions.css#486
17:41:39 <flo> a linear gradient repeats itself by default?
17:41:56 <Mic> No, afaik it takes all the space available
17:41:57 <clokep> I think so.
17:42:02 <flo> let me try :)
17:42:09 <clokep> Which means it repeats in one direction ;)
17:42:27 <Mic> Why don't you look at the linear-gradient documentation?
17:43:17 <Mic> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/using_gradients
17:45:12 <Mic> (I was thinking of repeating stripes at the description)
17:46:12 <flo> -moz-repeating-linear-gradient ok...
17:46:15 <flo> (thanks by the way)
17:49:42 <tymerkaev> flo: how to talk with /dev/null?
17:49:43 <tymerkaev> :)
17:50:41 <flo> it's the "JS Test" protocol plugin that is built-in for debug builds
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17:53:04 <flo> finally, I've used the very simple gradients from the add-on manager (no repeating gradient) and it looks very good
17:53:49 <flo> http://queze.net/goinfre/new-add-on2.png
17:54:07 <clokep> :)
17:54:10 <clokep> That looks great.
17:54:15 <flo> just enough to convey the message, but light enough to not hurt the eyes
17:54:31 <flo> it's even tempting to just commit it, instead of packaging an add-on ;)
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17:55:23 <clokep> As long as it's an option.
17:55:55 <flo> yeah, I would need to add a pref for it (hidden in about:config though :-P)
17:56:35 <flo> I already like it a lot! :-]
17:57:00 <flo> It's something I've discussed with deOmega a long while ago
17:57:27 <clokep> Perhaps there should be someway to disable being away from it?
17:57:36 <flo> yeah
17:57:43 <flo> and there should be a descriptive message in the status bar
17:57:45 <clokep> I.e. a little bar ("You're away you shouldn't be typing! Bring me back!")
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17:59:16 <flo> hmm, that would not be "average user" friendly, but we could also just put "/back" in the textbox, so that simply pressing enter changes the status :-D
18:00:13 <flo> any idea of a name I could use to package it?
18:00:55 <clokep> No. :-\
18:01:01 <clokep> Naming is not my strong suit.
18:01:01 <flo> remind status?
18:01:13 <flo> status reminder?
18:01:14 <clokep> Status Reminder, perhaps?
18:01:18 <flo> heh
18:01:36 <clokep> Rememberall? ;)
18:18:40 <clokep> flo: A random question: If I can't figure something out for a bug, is it better to email you or reply in the bug or what. (Assuming you're not on IRC.)
18:18:58 <flo> the add-on version works at the first try, that's... surprising
18:19:46 <flo> clokep: if there's nothing private in the message, it's better to keep it public (so in the bug).
18:20:37 <flo> I'm more likely to reply to an email from the phone though (it's a bit tedious to log into bugzilla ;-))
18:20:39 <clokep> Yeah, just sometimes I can't figure things out. :) Nothing private about any of it, unless showing how much I don't know is private. ;)
18:21:22 <flo> anything that looks bad in http://pastebin.instantbird.com/494 before I commit it into the add-ons repository and go home? :)
18:21:48 <flo> I'm not sure I will release the xpi today
18:22:08 <clokep> There's no status away?
18:22:09 <flo> on Mac I need to fix the conversation CSS before it could look acceptable, so maybe I'll have CSS fixes to do on other OSes too
18:22:26 <tymerkaev> flo: maybe you need help?
18:22:27 <flo> < available is away+busy
18:22:35 <tymerkaev> with css
18:22:42 <clokep> Ah OK.
18:22:42 <flo> tymerkaev: I don't know yet :)
18:24:35 <tymerkaev> flo: just a note, you don't need to put whitespace between rgba/rgb/hsl/hsla values (for example, 0,0,0,.5 instead of 0, 0, 0, .5)
18:24:49 <flo> hmm, the huge shutdown leak should probably scare me
18:25:20 <clokep> tymerkaev: But isn't it easier to read? :)
18:25:30 <flo> tymerkaev: it's more readable with the spaces (and those lines are directly copied from http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/toolkit/themes/pinstripe/mozapps/extensions/extensions.css)
18:25:41 <flo> thanks anyway :)
18:25:42 <tymerkaev> it takes up much space
18:26:19 <flo> tymerkaev: well, if we want to be picky, we can say I should really not put that in the .js file but in a .css file in the theme...
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18:28:10 <tymerkaev> also, 'top' doesn't need anywhere as first word; it's intended behavior for gradients (e.g. top is default value)
18:34:03 * flo goes home
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19:21:43 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com added attachment 408 to bug 526.
19:21:44 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 408 on bug 526.
19:21:46 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=526 enh, --, ---, clokep, NEW, Provide UI to open about:crashes and about:support
19:30:22 <Mic> clokep: the patch doesn't look like it is the right one
19:30:40 <clokep> Mic: I checked it....briefly...
19:31:07 <Mic> But it's the one fixing the add-on manager button on the options window, isn't it?
19:31:13 <clokep> Mic: You're right. :)
19:31:22 <clokep> Opened the wrong one...
19:32:30 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com added attachment 409 to bug 526.
19:32:31 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com cancelled review?(florian@instantbird .org) for attachment 408 on bug 526.
19:32:32 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 409 on bug 526.
19:32:34 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=526 enh, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Provide UI to open about:crashes and about:support
19:32:34 * Mic is wondering why they're hunting WikiLeaks domains. It doesn't make any difference.
19:35:28 <clokep> Thanks Mic. :)
19:35:36 <Mic> Don't mention it
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19:37:28 <tymerkaev> what's "WikiLeaks domains"?
19:38:24 <Mic> Domains of the WikiLeaks website (wikileaks.org, wikileaks.ch, ..)
19:38:55 <tymerkaev> what's WikiLeaks?
19:40:09 <Mic> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikileaks
19:42:00 <tymerkaev> bah
19:43:02 * tymerkaev thinks he need to watch world news
19:45:00 <clokep> You should! They cover the same stuff as Wikileaks, but Wikileaks get's shut down for it, "real" news just make money.
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20:03:57 <Mic> The button looks definitely better when it is not so high :)
20:07:25 <Mic> https://wiki.instantbird.org/File:Application_Button.png
20:07:35 <Mic> The orange is awful, though
20:07:52 <clokep> What color "signifies" Instantbird?
20:08:15 <clokep> The tan-ish color?
20:09:34 <Mic> I used light blue and that green resulting from the yellow lines over the blue planet on the older mockup
20:10:07 <Mic> (Not exactly green of course;)
20:13:16 <Mic> Does the buddy list need a maximize-button btw?
20:14:42 <Mic> I can't think of any situation where a maximized buddy list would be useful
20:14:48 <Mic> At least not in the current form
20:16:58 <clokep> It probably doesn't, can we remove it?
20:18:38 <Mic> Sure, with the new titlebar it is only a mere toolbarbutton 
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21:37:32 <Mic> clokep: I think we have a bug about an own sound theme (we're using Pidgin sounds right now afaik; can't tell for sure since I never used Pidgin)
21:37:58 <clokep> Mic: Aren't we using the sounds that every IM program uses? :)
21:37:59 <Mic> Maybe you could add that, i.e. looking for someone creating a sound theme?
21:38:35 <clokep> For the blog post?
21:38:51 <Mic> Yes, exactly
21:39:16 <clokep> Added it. :)
21:39:28 <clokep> I think we should let this sit for a few days if we can think of other stuff. :)
21:39:32 <Mic> "sounds: advanced choices and preferences " is on the roadmap for 0.3
21:43:02 <flo> the textbox has a native theme on Linux too :(
21:44:28 <Mic> It's ok. Linux people don't care about the look of their GUI anyways :P
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21:45:11 <flo> Mic: come on, you've said that at least as many times as I've said Windows sucks ;)
21:45:35 <clokep> That leaves me to hate on Mac then?
21:45:45 <clokep> It's too shiny and pretty and stuff.
21:46:48 <flo> we still have libpurple that we can hate ;)
21:47:26 <clokep> :) Sorry for the intense amounts of bug spam earlier. :) Uploaded the wrong patch.
21:47:28 <Mic> Shall I try your addon on sucking Window?
21:48:07 <Mic> I meant "Windoze (TM) by Mickey$oft" of course
21:48:09 <flo> not yet
21:48:34 <flo> clokep: ok, I've something for you to hate Mac. We have no "Help" menu on Mac :-P.
21:49:00 <Mic> We can still hate our menus in general
21:49:02 <clokep> flo: Arg, so that wouldn't show up?
21:49:12 <flo> exactly
21:49:31 <flo> Mic: let me hate the way to install and debug add-ons first ;)
21:49:48 <flo> and that -purgecaches command line flags that I keep on forgetting
21:50:49 <clokep> I added -purgecaches to my Komodo Edit command that opens Instantbird. :)
21:52:46 <flo> I have it on my "ib-debug-loop" command on the mac too ;)
21:53:14 <flo> obviously it's each time I go to a different machine / build environment that I forget it ;)
21:59:26 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org denied review for attachment 409 on bug 526.
21:59:31 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=526 enh, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, Provide UI to open about:crashes and about:support
22:01:14 <clokep> flo: What do you suggest for the menu then? :)
22:01:26 <clokep> And I forgot to remove the crashreporter/crashes part.
22:07:11 <flo> I don't really know
22:07:22 <flo> Firefox has it in an "Help" menu on Mac too, but there are other items
22:09:38 <clokep> Hmm...OK. Let me think about it.
22:10:07 <clokep> I have an unrelated request now. :) Sometime soon you think you'll have time to run my IRC stuff? I'm stuck on the same bug for a while now and it's stopping me from doing anything else.
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22:11:07 <flo> ok
22:11:08 <-- clokep_dev has quit (Client exited)
22:12:15 <clokep> When you open a chat (i.e. "JOIN #instantbird"), I get an error that anEnumerator doesn't exist, and I think it has to do with my getParticipants function.
22:12:20 <clokep> But I'm not sure what to od.
22:14:26 <clokep> Doesn't have to be now. :)
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22:21:57 <Mic> The menus are really not easy to group :(
22:22:12 <flo> Mic: let's hate them ;)
22:22:25 <Mic> Let's improve them anyways
22:39:12 <-- hicham has quit (Client exited)
22:47:58 * flo gives up finding a fix for that stupid leak for this evening
22:49:56 <Mic> Maybe we should move the "Accounts" menu item to the first menu and label it the "Instantbird". That's Instantmessaging related enough and unspecific enough to justify the "Exit"  menuitem ;)
22:50:08 <Mic> "Instantbird"-menu
22:52:18 <clokep> The difference between File and Tools is kind of eh.
22:52:41 <flo> there are no files...
22:52:52 <clokep> But there's a file menu. :)
22:54:30 <flo> clokep: I'm testing your code
22:54:39 <flo> what's the username again?
22:54:45 <clokep> Thanks flo. :)
22:54:46 <flo> just the nick or nick@server?
22:54:54 <clokep> nick
22:55:19 <clokep> Yeah I guess it'd be confusing to sign in as clokep_dev. ;)
22:56:11 <Mic> One way to grou them is:
22:56:41 <flo> so, the account manager says "Connecting...", I've a conversation tab "irc.mozilla.org" with a system message "You're now chatting on IRC!"
22:56:52 <Mic> Buddy list related, conversation related, IM related and application related
22:57:16 <Mic> We have one item related to the buddy list itself (Add Buddy...), one related to conversations (Join Chat...) (and missing a way to open a conversation with someone not on your list), two general IM related items (Set Status... and Accounts...) and six general application items (Exit, Add-ons, Error Console, Options..., Check for Updates... and About Instantbird)
22:57:26 <clokep> flo: I'm not sure the account manager ever leaves connecting. It should.
22:57:38 <clokep> Yes, mine says "Connected"
22:59:02 <Mic> I guess I better leave that while you're busy ;)
22:59:09 <flo> clokep: ok. There's a bug related to the offline status. Not interesting for now.
22:59:42 <flo> Mic: aren't "Accounts" related to the application?
22:59:46 <clokep> I know it never sets you back offline if that's what the issue is? :) I figured that should be easy enough, trying to get more "interesting" things to work first.
22:59:50 <flo> and "Set Status"... it's about the user.
23:00:14 <Mic> That's a different way to view it ;)
23:00:39 <flo> clokep: the network manager of my linux system is being stupid and reporting that I'm offline, so the application starts offline... and causes confusing bugs.
23:00:49 <flo> it doesn't make much sense to start "offline with an internet connection" ;)
23:01:11 <clokep> :) Yes, your code can take the blame for that one, not mine. :)
23:01:24 <flo> your code doesn't behave like the other accounts
23:01:36 <flo> so there's probably an issue somewhere
23:01:48 <flo> but as I said, it's "Not interesting for now."
23:01:54 <clokep> Right.
23:02:13 <flo> (by the way, the others account behave stupidly too... but differently :-D)
23:02:26 * flo will soon add "offline status" to the hate list :)
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23:06:57 <flo> clokep: so where are you stuck exactly?
23:07:12 <clokep> Did you get an error when you joined the room?
23:07:22 <flo> more than one
23:07:41 <clokep> Oh? What'd you get? I only have one.
23:07:42 <flo> but some were probably when I tried to switch to the new tab
23:07:46 <clokep> Oh, possibly.
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23:08:04 <clokep> I only get one.
23:08:04 <-- clokep_dev has quit (Client exited)
23:08:12 <clokep> Two rather.
23:08:18 <flo> aEnumerator is null
23:08:22 <clokep> aEnumerator is null Line 44
23:08:22 <clokep> Yes.
23:08:26 <flo> and this._buddies is underfined
23:08:29 <flo> *undefined
23:08:33 <clokep> And this.buddies[name] is undefined.
23:08:39 <clokep> Which I know how to fix and just haven't I think. :)
23:08:48 <clokep> Or no. I don't never mind. My mistake.
23:09:26 <clokep> One of those two is crashing the plug-in though? I think the aEnumerator being null is causing the other one.
23:12:07 <flo> where does that getIter call come from?
23:12:29 <clokep> My version of the jsProtoHelper
23:12:47 <clokep> Line 549 I believe.
23:13:11 <flo> I don't see any getIter call in it
23:13:26 <flo> the line 549 is commented out by the way
23:14:34 <clokep> 546, sorry.
23:14:47 <clokep> But the simpleEnumerator doesn't seem to do that either.
23:14:53 <clokep> In which case I have no idea where it's coming from.
23:15:11 <flo> ok :)
23:15:42 <-- skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout)
23:15:44 <clokep> Hence why I'm stuck. :-D
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23:16:51 <flo> I have another error this time :-D
23:17:09 <flo> aMessage.params[1] is undefined (line 636)
23:17:40 <clokep> What was the message that came in right before that? :)
23:20:04 <flo> clokep: http://queze.net/goinfre/error-jsirc.png
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23:22:22 <clokep> flo: OK, I added a check for the situation, but it shouldn't actually happen. :-\
23:22:33 <flo> it happened a few times in a row
23:22:51 <clokep> Do you have two accounts signed in?
23:22:55 <flo> but I've just got a case where that worked, and I could verify my fix for the aEnumerator is null issue :)
23:23:03 <flo> maybe more
23:23:06 <clokep> I see one being return as testib, and another as test.
23:23:47 <flo> I only have one account of your plugin ;)
23:24:05 <clokep> Ohhh.
23:24:07 <clokep> I know what happened.
23:24:17 <clokep> Something I haven't figured out with sockets yet.
23:24:28 <clokep> I'm continually reading the socket and sometimes it cuts messages in the middle.
23:24:42 <flo> for the aEnumerator is null issue, you need to add a "new" between "return" and "nsSimpleEnumerator" ;)
23:24:56 <clokep> Arg. Thanks.
23:25:32 <flo> and the other error is real too and prevents the nick list from loading ;)
23:25:43 <flo> np :)
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23:36:41 <clokep> test.
23:36:42 <-- clokep_dev has quit (Client exited)
23:36:53 <clokep> that crashed it, yay. :)
23:42:02 <clokep> flo: this.buddies in conversation is.... an imIBuddy?
23:42:14 <clokep> Or an imIAccountBuddy?
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