#instantbird log on 11 16 2010

All times are UTC.

00:04:48 <hicham> good evening
00:09:26 <Mic1> Strange, the catastrophic backtracking article is on top now
00:09:41 <Mic1> I would have betted that I saw it further down on PMO
00:11:06 <Mic1> good night
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01:31:11 <hicham> instantbot: hi
01:31:12 <instantbot> hi hicham
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10:41:56 <Mic|away> Hi
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10:49:19 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 581 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
10:49:21 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=581 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Instantbird (default) is incompatible with Instantbird 0.3a1pre.
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10:58:44 <instantbot> New purplexpcom - General bug 582 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
10:58:46 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=582 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Can't connect to ICQ, "Error: Unknown reason"
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11:09:02 <tymerkaev> Mic: they changed connect server
11:09:16 <tymerkaev> from login.messaging.aol.com to login.icq.com
11:09:46 <Mic> Thanks a lot, it's working now.
11:09:53 <tymerkaev> np
11:12:47 <Mic> I posted your fix on the bug report
11:18:16 <tymerkaev> Mic: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&tl=en&u=http://habrahabr.ru/blogs/im/108214/
11:19:06 <Mic> Ah, exactly, would you like to add that to the bug as well? :)
11:19:17 <tymerkaev> maybe
11:19:35 <tymerkaev> I think it needs to be translated as well
11:28:05 <tymerkaev> maybe this bug is great reason to making 0.2.1 right now...
11:30:24 <Mic> flo is planning to release soon
11:30:49 <Mic> I wrote a status update for the blog and he asked me to include that information in the "Next" section
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12:11:38 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 
12:11:57 <flo> hello :)
12:14:07 <flo> Mic: suggested changes http://pastebin.instantbird.com/463
12:14:16 <flo> everything else looks great to me :)
12:15:05 <tymerkaev> flo: have you seen bug 582?
12:15:07 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=582 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Can't connect to ICQ, "Error: Unknown reason"
12:15:37 <flo> so we need to upgrade to libpruple 2.7.5?
12:15:50 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/8b2df661ca58 - Florian Quèze - Remove useless Makefile in purple/purplexpcom.
12:15:51 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/f92d36895236 - Florian Quèze - Remove the gobject Makefile.
12:15:52 <flo> tymerkaev: yes, just read it.
12:15:52 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/4ec7ae68eb53 - Florian Quèze - Remove obsolete purplexpcom loader.
12:16:10 <tymerkaev> nice
12:16:37 <tymerkaev> shouldn't fix for that be in branch (0.2) ?
12:20:09 <tymerkaev> flo: ?
12:23:15 <flo> maybe, do we know if it is affected?
12:24:15 <flo> I've got to go, sorry
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12:59:16 <Mic> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/466
13:02:23 <Mic> clokep: could you grammar-check the "The Mozilla framework has been [...]"-sentence please? I'm not so convinced of the "has been supporting" in there. It sounds to me as if they started supporting it some time ago and also that it is just a matter of time until it ends (which is not what I want to say;).
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13:33:25 <clokep> re:flo's suggestions for Mic: In the US it's "gradient" not "gradiant" but I'm not sure if that's a spelling mistake or a difference in spelling. :)
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13:34:10 <Mic> It looks like a typo when checking my dictionary
13:36:30 <clokep> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/467 Fixed the supporting stuff and gradient.
13:40:20 <tymerkaev> ah
13:40:48 <tymerkaev> where's my lovely sumobot? :D
13:41:05 <clokep> He got taken out a couple of weeks ago.
13:41:34 <tymerkaev> :(
13:41:34 <Mic> thanks :)
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13:50:28 * Mic likes LaTeX :)
13:51:18 <tymerkaev> Mic: what's LaTeX?
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13:51:40 <Mic> I wonder what it takes to teach MSO or OOo/LibreOffice to show the pagenumbers of the table of contents in roman numbers and the rest in arabic numbers, starting by 1 again after the TOC
13:52:06 <clokep> I'm pretty sure it's really easy to do that in Office.
13:52:06 <Mic> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaTeX
13:52:35 <clokep> I think you just right click > Bullet & Numbering formatting or whatever it's called.
13:53:04 <clokep> You using LaTeX on Windows Mic? With what program?
13:53:05 <Mic> I guess I'll never find out :P
13:53:17 <Mic> No, I'm using it on Linux
13:53:34 <tymerkaev> "Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales"
13:54:06 <Mic> Further down :P
13:55:10 <Mic> Reminded me of this: http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1830262
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14:11:52 <Mic> Welcome, Jan
14:19:49 <Jan> Thanks :)
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14:57:54 <Mic> Jan: if you have any questions, ideas, complaints, just go ahead and ask. If nobody answers it just means that nobody's currently active here; ask anyways and check back later for a response
14:58:00 * Mic is now known as Mic|away
14:58:05 <Jan> Ah, okay. Thanks! :)
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15:19:15 <kaie> very strange... until yesterday I could log in to ICQ just fine. options "ssl", "not client login", "no proxy"... today it failed. I went to www.icq.com and tried to login. password was rejected
15:19:48 <kaie> I was surprised. tried to reset my password. received email. go to icq.com and success, site reports: "passwort changed"
15:20:09 <kaie> but still! login at www.icq.com fails. login using instantbird fails.
15:20:33 <kaie> then I made a fun experiment. I changed instantbird options. "disable ssl", "enable client login".
15:20:48 <kaie> using the OLD password I'm able to login that way. isn't that totally strange and unexpected?
15:21:29 <kaie> (I mean, login to icq account using instantbird works that way, but login to www.icq.com with the same credentials is rejected with incorrect pw/id).
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15:43:32 <clokep> kaie: There's a bug filed abou tit.
15:43:43 <clokep> bug 582
15:43:47 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=582 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Can't connect to ICQ, "Error: Unknown reason"
15:43:58 <clokep> They disabled a login URL it seems.
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16:44:30 <kaie> clokep, thanks. changing to login.icq.com makes it work even with "client login" disabled. I confirm ssl doesn't work. so, the login part is fixed...
16:45:06 <clokep> Yes, SSL doesn't work.
16:46:02 <kaie> unrelated to instantbird, I don't understand why my account behaves weird, i.e. why I (a) can't login to icq.com (reported bad password) , (b) I CAN login to "web icq", and once I do, and click on "setup feeds" links, I AM also logged in to the web site (can change my prefs etc.)
16:46:11 <kaie> weird, but offtopic for this channel
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17:03:45 <sadrick> hey guys
17:03:52 <clokep> Hello sadrick.
17:03:53 <sadrick> a quick question
17:04:07 <clokep> What's up?
17:04:37 <sadrick> i tried to login to icq and "Error: Unknown reason" came up
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17:06:04 <clokep> bug 585 ;)
17:06:05 <clokep> I think?
17:06:06 <clokep> Shoot.
17:06:12 <Mic|web> bug 582
17:06:15 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=582 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Can't connect to ICQ, "Error: Unknown reason"
17:06:16 <clokep> Change the login in the advanced options to login.icq.com
17:08:25 <sadrick> wow :-D
17:08:42 * Mic|web is now known as Mic
17:08:47 <clokep> That work sadrick?
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17:08:58 <sadrick> yes!^^
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17:09:13 <sadrick> i also tried to login with meebo but they seem to have the same problem
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17:10:16 <clokep> Yeah, seems the server changed.
17:10:27 <sadrick> but the weird thing is
17:10:41 <sadrick> i had this problems one or two weeks ago
17:11:06 <clokep> I read somewhere it could just be a DNS issue somewhere? Maybe on the link in that bug?
17:11:08 <sadrick> but at the end of the day it worked agan
17:11:10 <sadrick> again
17:12:18 <clokep> Yeah. I'm not sure.
17:12:44 <Mic> clokep: could you post a how-to-fix on the bug report? (I'm not remembering my Bugzilla password..)
17:12:50 <Mic> *would
17:12:55 <clokep> Mic: no problem.
17:13:06 <Mic> Thanks
17:13:33 <sadrick> hmm i'm able to resolve the domain login.messaging.aol.com and to ping the server behind the domain
17:13:53 <sadrick> this shouldn't be the problem
17:14:26 <Mic> Even: I'm going to put that in the topic, temporarily. Just in case that another user isn't as lucky and no one is around here (if I have sufficient rights to do so)
17:15:03 <clokep> sadrick: I read somewhere the AOL is killing their ICQ stuff (since they sold it)?
17:16:55 <sadrick> i'm wondering what happens with original icq clients
17:17:27 <sadrick> well, who decided to take the domain "login.messaging.aol.com" for icq?
17:18:18 <clokep> AOL bought ICQ a long time ago.
17:18:23 <clokep> And sold it earlier this year I believe?
17:18:30 <sadrick> yeah
17:18:34 <clokep> So the networks were combined at one point? But now they're splitting again?
17:18:42 <clokep> This is all being vaguely remembered, so...
17:18:57 <sadrick> QIP used login.icq.com since years
17:19:06 <sadrick> for years
17:19:07 <sadrick> sorry
17:19:36 topic changed by Mic to "Ask questions about Instantbird here. Official website: http://www.instantbird.com. Latest release: 0.2. Read http://blog.instantbird.org/. Nightlies: http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/nightly/2010/ (testing purpose only), IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/. | If you have troubles logging into ICQ, look"
17:19:50 <Mic> d'oh. Cut off :S
17:19:57 <clokep> :(
17:20:17 <clokep> Just do "ICQ Troubles? See bug 582"
17:20:19 <clokep> Or something.
17:20:45 topic changed by Mic to "Ask questions about Instantbird here. Official website: http://www.instantbird.com. Latest release: 0.2. Read http://blog.instantbird.org/. Nightlies: http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/nightly/2010/ (testing purpose only), IRC logs: http://log.bezut.info/. | ICQ troubles-> http://tinyurl.com/ICQError"
17:22:19 <clokep> That works. :)
17:22:38 <clokep> Now I can be passive aggressive when people ask and just say "See the topic"
17:22:38 <Mic> I like the highlighting feature :)
17:23:16 <clokep> Any IM programs that do something unique?
17:23:23 <sadrick> meebo
17:23:31 <sadrick> and pidgin i read
17:23:36 <sadrick> both using libpurple
17:24:32 <sadrick> but there is still one  question^^
17:24:57 <sadrick> who decided to use login.messaging.aol.com as login server
17:25:43 <sadrick> i'm not entirely sure but i thing icq used the login server "login.icq.com" at least since version 5
17:27:51 <Mic> I have a problem with icq
17:28:02 <clokep> I have no idea sadrick. Other programs use it also.
17:28:04 <Mic> hmm :s
17:28:23 <Mic> c++
17:28:38 <sadrick> but somewere the developers must have got this url^^
17:28:59 <clokep> They probably got it by watching DNS requests from the ICQ client.
17:29:07 <clokep> Mic: What's your issue with ICQ?
17:29:09 <Mic> hmm, didn't Instantbot respond to that even when not aimed at him? I wanted to add such a thing for "icq"
17:29:23 <Mic> instantbot: icq
17:29:24 <instantbot> Mic: If you have problems logging into ICQ ("Error: Unknown reason"), check this link for a possible fix: http://tinyurl.com/ICQError
17:29:43 <sadrick> icq
17:29:48 <sadrick> lol
17:32:32 <clokep> Mic: I think it only responds if you say "What is ICQ?"
17:32:42 <clokep> What is icq?
17:32:47 <clokep> I guess not. :-\
17:32:55 <Mic> Wait a minute
17:35:05 <Mic> hmm, nevermind
17:36:19 <Morian> blah blah blah pidgin blah blah
17:36:29 <Morian> beh ... supposed to work :(
17:36:32 <sadrick> ^^
17:37:10 <Morian> instantbot: status
17:37:11 <instantbot> Morian: I have 171 factoids in my database and 1 bot friend to help me answer questions. Since the last reload, I've been asked 14 questions, performed 174 edits, and spoken with other bots 16 times.
17:37:12 <instantbot> Morian: I've been up 91 days.
17:37:25 <Morian> instantbot: you're getting old.
17:37:28 <instantbot> Morian: Sorry, I've no idea what 'you're getting old' might be.
17:37:57 <Mic> instantbot: tell Mic what icq is
17:37:58 <instantbot> Mic: told Mic
17:40:26 <Mic> good evening
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17:40:52 <instantbot> I am really sorry to be so dumb these days... I ... am in love and it occupies 86.5% of my resources.
17:41:12 <Morian> instantbot: it's ok
17:41:15 <instantbot> Morian: Sorry, I've no idea what 'it's ok' might be.
17:41:16 <instantbot> Morian: it's not ok
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20:32:14 <tymerkaev> chrisccoulson: hi
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21:29:24 <Morian> instantbot: who am i?
21:29:25 <instantbot> Morian: you are my boyfriend.
21:29:43 <Morian> erg flo is not here -_-
21:33:18 <clokep> flo Hasn't been here alld ay I think.
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21:45:56 <Mic> hej
21:46:07 <hicham> hi
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21:51:17 <flo> Good evening :)
21:51:30 <clokep> Morian was just looking for you flo.
21:51:38 <flo> really?
21:51:55 <flo> I've been chatting on Gtalk for at least 10 minutes :-D
21:52:42 <flo> *we've
21:53:08 <clokep> Oh...Yeah it was 20 minutes ago. :)
21:53:08 <hicham> good evening Monsieur flo
21:53:11 <clokep> My bad.
21:53:25 <clokep> That's what happens when you're trying to solve nonlinear systems. :-\
21:53:51 <flo> clokep: you couldn't guess I'm online an chatting with the phone even when I'm "offline" ;)
21:54:11 <clokep> :)
21:54:21 <flo> (by the way, I won't stay a long time this evening, I'm connected using the phone as a wifi access point)
22:09:18 <Mic> hmm, the default server adress is hardcoded in a header file for both AIM and ICQ
22:09:43 <Mic> I guess we need different default adresses for these two now?
22:10:01 <Mic> AIM is working fine with the AOL messaging server
22:13:14 <clokep> I'm also guessing that Pidgin patched it probably. :)
22:14:03 <flo> Isn't this part of the point of libpurple 2.7.5?
22:15:17 <Mic> No idea
22:15:30 <flo> there's a link to the changelog on their frontpage
22:16:03 <Mic> Ah, ok.
22:16:14 <Mic> I never checked anything else than their bugtracker :D
22:16:24 <Mic> *anything but
22:16:53 <clokep> There's an awful lot of hings for a small Aim/ICQ fix.
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22:28:28 <Mic> flo: clokep corrected the posting btw ( http://pastebin.instantbird.com/467 )
22:28:39 <flo> :)
22:28:50 <flo> I was about to ask if it's ready to post
22:28:59 <flo> (I need to finish another email before I can get to it though)
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22:32:28 <clokep> flo I'm gonna read it one last time if that's OK?
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22:37:01 <clokep> Mic: "autocompletion" instead of completion?
22:37:50 <Mic> Selecting or accepting the correct choice requires user interaction, so it's not so "auto" in my opinion
22:38:11 <clokep> Fair enough.
22:38:14 <Mic> We're not taking the job from the user, we only make it simpler to accomplish
22:38:47 <Mic> That's at least why I've been avoiding the "auto-" so far
22:39:51 * flo has just read the post again, and everything sounds great
22:40:07 <flo> I'm just wondering if we should include a note about the way work around the ICQ error
22:40:21 <clokep> flo: Mic: a few more updates http://pastebin.instantbird.com/470
22:40:30 <clokep> flo: Probably!
22:40:33 <flo> but I'm afraid it wouldn't be visible enough to be useful if included inside a post as big as this one
22:40:35 <Mic> wait
22:40:46 <Mic> I fixed the service.jsm link
22:41:02 <clokep> We should probably push out a separate post about that.
22:41:08 <Mic> It look awkward with the other words around
22:41:11 <clokep> Also, I /did/ make a few changes.
22:41:36 <Mic> Wait, let me change the link and repost it
22:42:13 <Mic> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/471
22:42:27 <clokep> Do you want me to make my changes again? from 470?
22:42:39 <flo> man, we really need to improve that workflow :(
22:42:54 <Mic> No, I took your's and changed the link there
22:43:21 <Mic> flo: as long as this doesn't mean that I'd have to use Google Wave again :P
22:44:03 <clokep> We should really just use the wiki i think. :-\
22:44:06 <clokep> And avoid wiki syntax.
22:44:16 <flo> lol
22:46:08 <flo> yeah, I guess it would be better
22:46:25 <flo> even though it would still be far from a good system
22:46:49 <flo> (it should be trivial to see what has been changed since the last visit, and accept/reject changes one by one)
22:48:11 <clokep> :-\ Do you know of any software that does that?
22:48:51 <flo> no :(
22:49:41 <clokep> The nice thing about the wiki is it at least tracks changes, and you can revert them if you want...
22:49:46 <flo> or maybe we should just accept that our status updates will be full or mistakes because it's human to err, and in the future proof read only release notes.
22:50:08 <flo> and have a single person write each post
22:50:16 <flo> so that we stop wasting so much time
22:50:35 <clokep> I think it's good to have one person read over them, but we don't need tons of people to read.
22:50:39 <flo> if there's an error somewhere but every reader understands what we meant, is there a problem?
22:50:46 <clokep> Nope. :)
22:51:34 * flo is looking for a way to post without the post being showed as "Posted by Florian"
22:59:56 <clokep> Mic: Can you check something for me?
23:00:04 <clokep> Apparently ou can use "slogin.icq.com" if you use SSL?
23:01:32 <Mic> Doesn't work
23:01:49 <Mic> I expect that the SSL setting doesn't honour the server field?
23:03:00 <clokep> Maybe.
23:03:45 <flo> so this is ready to post? :)
23:03:48 <clokep> flo: Something along these lines for the ICQ issue: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/472
23:04:34 <Mic> You forgot to escape the double quotes?
23:05:06 <clokep> You're right. :)
23:05:06 <-- GeekShadow has quit (Connection reset by peer)
23:05:08 <Mic> On the alt-text of course
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23:06:11 <clokep> Escaped quotes. http://pastebin.instantbird.com/473
23:08:00 <flo> http://blog.instantbird.org/
23:08:28 <flo> apparently my SQL incantation (Thanks Morian! ;)) to put "Benedikt P" as the poster's name worked :)
23:10:07 <flo> contact@instantbird.org as the email address is intentional, so that you don't get more spam from this.
23:10:14 <hicham> great
23:10:22 <flo> and I don't understand why mysql won't let me put "." after the "P" initial
23:11:33 <Mic> Ah, thanks. It wouldn't really be useful if it ended with me
23:11:44 <Mic> Eventually I'd have to forward it to you anyways
23:11:44 <flo> clokep: you want to escape ">" too. And you probably mean ICQ, not IRC account
23:12:02 <flo> and I really want to open that mailing list to the public
23:12:06 <flo> so you get these emails too if you are interested
23:12:14 <clokep> Arg I copied that from the bug. :(
23:12:38 <clokep> Which > am I escaping...?
23:13:24 <clokep> Found it.
23:14:51 <clokep> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/474 with those fixes.
23:16:26 <instantbot> Just appeared in Blog@instantbird.org - http://blog.instantbird.org/ :
23:16:27 <instantbot> http://blog.instantbird.org/n32-status-update.html - Status update
23:16:31 <flo> clokep: I guess I need to add another poster username in the database ;)
23:18:31 <-- hicham has quit (Client exited)
23:18:56 <flo> clokep: is the last word of the post "effected" or "affected"?
23:22:34 <flo> what would you like to see displayed as the poster name? clokep? Patrick ? Patrick Cloke ?
23:23:20 <clokep> "Patrick Cloke" is good.
23:23:30 <clokep> Uhhh....effected vs. affected I always get wrong. :)
23:23:35 <clokep> Let me ask someone, one second.
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23:25:53 <clokep> flo: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/475 has a few corrections to the last sentence.
23:26:24 <clokep> Should it be in there that all versions need to make this change?
23:27:10 <flo> only the users who see the quoted error should make the change ;)
23:29:58 <clokep> flo: Last version, I swear: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/476 :)
23:30:17 <clokep> I have to go proctor an exam. Be back later!
23:30:38 <flo> ok, let me post that and go to bed :)
23:32:59 <flo> oh crap, I couldn't have the "." after "P" because that column of the database has a stupid 10 characters limit :(
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23:33:37 <Mic> good night
23:34:29 <flo> ok, I used Patrick C. and I'll fix the database table "someday" :-/
23:34:34 <flo> Mic: Good night :)
23:34:43 <Mic> good night
23:36:22 <hicham> flo : how do you compare telepathy framework to libpurple ?
23:36:24 <Mic> ah, that were my fifteen minutes of fame as it seems ;)
23:36:28 <instantbot> Just appeared in Blog@instantbird.org - http://blog.instantbird.org/ :
23:36:29 <instantbot> http://blog.instantbird.org/n33-icq-connection-error.html - ICQ connection error
23:37:06 <Mic> flo: you posted as Florian by the way
23:37:16 <flo> are you sure? ;)
23:37:33 <Mic> Yes, even though it looks differently now :P
23:37:39 <flo> tss
23:38:08 <flo> hicham: can you be more specific in the question?
23:39:28 <Mic> 'Drumbeat' is the new 'awesome' as it seems, seems to be hard to post something without mentioning it
23:39:45 <flo> Mic: then you know what do insert in your next post ;)
23:40:22 <Mic> hey, I even included "awesome" there
23:40:27 <flo> *to
23:40:31 <flo> I've noticed that! ;)
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23:40:46 <flo> are you applying for an intern position? ;)
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23:46:05 * ChanServ sets mode +h Mic 
23:58:16 <flo> clokep: the alt attribute is for img tags only, not a. the & character needs escaping (in URL query paths...), and <ol> cannot be inside <p>.
23:58:29 <flo> (yes, I've just checked what the w3c validator thinks of the latest post)