#instantbird log on 10 22 2010

All times are UTC.

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09:40:34 <Mic|away> morning
09:40:37 * Mic|away is now known as Mic
09:41:04 <hicham> morning
09:42:10 <Mic> ok, I think mine was a broad interpretation of 'morning' .. it's 20 minutes to midday here :D
09:43:00 <hicham> 9:42AM in here
09:44:06 <hicham> are you in germany ?
09:45:07 <Mic> yes
09:45:45 <Mic> So you are two hours west of me then ..
09:46:14 <Mic> well, need to get back to lab, ttyl
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15:32:59 <clokep> How's everyone doing?
15:33:15 <flo> Hey! :)
15:33:33 <flo> My JS blist implementation is doing well :)
15:33:51 <flo> add/remove/move buddy work. (I've just finished the "move" part today)
15:34:15 <clokep> Isn't move just an add and then a remove? ;)
15:34:19 <clokep> That doesn't sound hard. :P
15:34:29 <clokep> But that's good. Can't wait to give it a try.
15:34:33 <flo> I only need to finish the handling of server side aliases and some cleanup before it can land on nightlies
15:34:52 <flo> I may also need to fix what happens to the buddies of a removed account when one deletes an account
15:35:03 <flo> but I may do that a few days after the first landing :-D
15:35:25 <flo> clokep: "Isn't move just an add and then a remove? ;)" not really... Actually, this part is terribly confusing ;).
15:36:09 <clokep> flo: Oh, I wanted to ask you...about how much was changing in jsProtoHelper. But I'm gonna read the patch from the bug first (unless that's horribly out of date?)
15:36:43 <clokep> flo: What's the expected behavior of removing an account? Do the buddies all become unowned by an account or do they get deleted as well? :-\
15:36:53 <flo> jsProtoHelper.jsm, 140 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)
15:37:08 <flo> clokep: I don't know the expected behavior :(
15:37:15 <flo> which makes it harder to "fix"
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15:37:45 <clokep> :-\
15:37:52 <flo> especially, if the logs rely on the database, if you remove the buddies, you will have trouble reading the logs of the removed account, so it's easy to decide that we need to keep everything.
15:38:13 <clokep> Or also remove the logs. :-D
15:38:24 <flo> however, one can argue that if you delete an account, you can reasonably expect the traces of it to be removed from the computer... so... I don't know.of 
15:39:28 <clokep> Perhaps a popup (Mic is going to kill me for saying this) which is "You've requested to delete this account, do you wish to (1) delete this account and delete all buddies, (2) delete this account and keep buddies, (3) cancel"?
15:40:10 <flo> (4) Go watch a video on youtube (5) reboot your computer
15:40:21 <clokep> Looks like you've added a few lines to jsProtoHelper, but that's OK. :)
15:40:31 <clokep> I don't often watch videos on youtube, that wouldn't be helpful to me. ;)
15:41:03 <flo> I've added a GenericAccountBuddyPrototype implementation, and rewritten the loadBuddy method to use it.
15:41:40 <Mic> (6) let Instantbird awesomely decide what's best for you :P
15:42:21 <flo> Mic: that implies: not show the popup in the first place ;)
15:42:22 * clokep has seen many articles on the "Army of Awesome" recently. :(
15:42:24 <Mic> bbl
15:42:31 * Mic is now known as Mic|away
15:42:40 <clokep> Has Adium always had Twitter support? Or is that new?
15:42:44 * clokep read about it recently...
15:42:54 <flo> I think Adium is older than twitter
15:43:26 <Mic|away> pwnd :P
15:43:39 <Mic|away> bye
15:44:53 <clokep> OK, fine. We can play that way. ;) But I mean "has it had it for a long time and I never realized it or did they just add it in an update."
15:45:23 <flo> I didn't know it had it :)
15:45:28 <flo> so it's probably a recent addition
15:45:47 <flo> baaaah, scratch that
15:46:03 <flo> I've seen it used at least a year ago :-D
15:46:15 <hicham> there is microblog-purple on googlecode
15:46:17 <flo> and even discussed how the UI for it wasn't good :-D
15:47:08 <clokep> hicham: There's at least two on google code.
15:47:33 <clokep> flo: Yes, the UI is always bad. :(
15:50:23 <hicham> flo : the board gave me the examples of telepathy-purple, adium and finch which are using vanilla purple :(
15:50:39 <flo> finch is part of the pidgin project
15:51:13 <flo> I'm not really sure adium uses vanilla purple
15:51:29 <flo> though they certainly don't modify it as much as we do
15:51:58 <flo> (I think they have been part of the effort to separate libgaim from Gaim at the time)
15:52:34 <flo> I'm not really sure about telepathy-purple
15:53:15 <hicham> telepathy-purple is a "bridge" between telepathy framework and purple
15:53:24 <flo> yeah, I know that :)
15:53:45 <flo> but I'm not really about how they workaround the API :)
15:54:08 <flo> it's possible that they don't do it at all and let libpurple do whatever it wants in a profile folder
15:54:55 <flo> what's the ticket for your exception request? :)
15:55:57 <hicham> no ticket yet, just answers on irc
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17:13:56 <Mic> Good evening
17:14:33 <clokep> Hey.
17:20:05 <flo> hmm, I need some more changes in jsProtoHelper in forwardProtocolPrototype, to wrap the resulting buddies so that they return the good account/protocol.
17:20:34 <clokep> I haven't touched that stuff. ;)
17:21:03 <flo> It's all very messy
17:21:32 <flo> I'm not sure I fully understand the logic with all those .base and ._base properties
17:22:27 <clokep> That's not good. :-\
17:22:54 <flo> I can understand it if I need to change it, but it takes some time
17:23:13 <flo> I prefer code that I (re)understand with just a quick glance :)
17:24:17 <flo> the 'hackometer' explodes when looking at get base and getAccount at http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/purplexpcom/src/jsProtoHelper.jsm#361
17:25:23 <clokep> Yes. That's messy.
17:26:24 <flo> the purpose of purpleIAccountBase is a bit confusing too
17:26:48 <flo> I will see if we can move some/most of it to purpleIAccountsService, and get rid of it :).
17:30:12 <flo> maybe rewrite it in JS while we are at it
17:30:28 <flo> (it = the AccountsService)
17:30:49 <clokep> Trying to minimize all the C used? ;)
17:31:00 <Mic> clokep: thanks for looking at bug 501, seems I forgot posting that I found that as well
17:31:03 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=501 tri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Graph view on hg.instantbird.org contains duplicated 'ago'
17:31:12 <Mic> Maybe I just discussed it here
17:31:30 <clokep> Mic: Maybe, IDK. I just noticed it when I was on Mozilla's and remembered we had a bug about it.
17:31:42 <flo> clokep: maybe someday we will be able to avoid loading any binary component if the user only uses JS protocol plugins
17:32:04 <clokep> Right. Are binary components bad though in that respect?
17:32:13 <clokep> Like performance wise I think they'd be better?
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17:33:20 <flo> we don't do any resource intensive computing in there, and JIT'ed JS is quite fast, so I don't think that makes any significant difference
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17:33:36 <flo> if the JS code is clearer, it may even be faster if we don't do useless crap :)
17:33:43 <Mic> I was wondering if a Skype protocol could be worth trying with js +jsctypes to access their API (I'm not going to try that, just wanted to share the idea)
17:33:48 <Mic> (being the idea-guy again:P)
17:34:17 <flo> Mic: requiring skype to run in the background?
17:34:35 <Mic> Yes, the drawback .. but no other client can do differently either
17:34:58 <flo> until they release SkypeKit
17:35:02 <Mic> I'd really like to have my Skype logs in Instantbird as well
17:35:28 <flo> doing it with JS ctype would be an awesome example of JS protocol plugin :)
17:35:43 <Mic> Well, not necessarily IB but only a single place
17:36:36 <Mic> They have a 'Tracer' tool that is a console for the communication between a program that uses their API and Skype
17:36:47 <Mic> ie you enter the plain text commands yourself and get the response
17:37:06 <Mic> They have a link on their developer page
17:37:14 <flo> ok :)
17:37:19 <flo> time to drive home
17:37:22 <flo> back later :)
17:37:24 <Mic> I'm going to file a bug with the things I found later
17:37:32 <Mic> Going iceskating first :)
17:37:33 <Mic> bye
17:38:30 <clokep> Mic: I've looked that a bit too, so might fill in if I have anything good. ;)
17:39:37 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org added attachment 379 to bug 555.
17:39:39 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=555 enh, --, 0.3a1, florian, ASSI, New buddy list backend
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17:42:00 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org added attachment 380 to bug 555.
17:42:02 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=555 enh, --, 0.3a1, florian, ASSI, New buddy list backend
17:43:07 <flo> ok, if I break my laptop in a car crash, I won't lose my work :)
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20:10:34 <hicham> flo : do you support adding plugins to your custom libpurple ?
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20:11:45 <flo> hicham: http://blog.instantbird.org/a9-instantbird-0-2-feature-preview-protocols-as-extensions.html
20:15:08 <hicham> hmmm
20:15:33 <hicham> so IB source tree is required to build the plugins ?
20:15:44 <flo> yes
20:16:31 <flo> I haven't seen any big interest for building additional libpurple plugins
20:16:44 <flo> except people from msn-pecan who made a version for Instantbird at some point
20:17:27 <hicham> i guess providing IB headers and libs to link against is better
20:17:51 <hicham> and it is more flexible that way
20:17:58 <flo> an sdk
20:18:06 <hicham> exactly
20:18:07 <flo> yeah, if there was some real demand we would probably do it
20:18:58 <flo> at some point we planned to do even better: a buildbot slave to which one could upload a "patch" or source code tarball, and it would email you a link to the result (either the compiler error log, or the packaged plugin)
20:19:31 <hicham> like we do in fedora ;)
20:20:46 <hicham> but patching the source tree to build a plugin isn't very practical
20:24:06 <flo> ah, that part is probably easy to workaround
20:24:18 <flo> the annoying part is that you need to have the .lib files to link against
20:24:35 <hicham> for purple ?
20:24:38 <flo> well, that only matters on Windows, on linux/mac the .so/dylib files are distributed
20:25:09 <flo> at least purple.lib, and the mozilla xpcom libraries
20:25:32 <hicham> oh, so the plugin is linked against mozilla xpcom libraries also ?
20:25:49 <hicham> i didn't see that
20:25:59 <hicham> the patch is quite big
20:26:29 <flo> and it's not in the patch :)
20:27:01 <hicham> oh
20:27:18 <flo> it's the mozilla build system that adds the mozilla libraries automatically for xpcom components
20:27:26 <flo> and http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/libpurple/protocols/prpl.mk that ads the libpurple library
20:28:05 <hicham> i guess on linux it would be quite easy
20:30:02 <hicham> btw, you replaced gettext with mozilla localization way ?
20:30:31 <flo> yes
20:30:35 <flo> that's explained on the blog too
20:31:36 <flo> http://blog.instantbird.org/a10-instantbird-0-2-feature-preview-localizability.html
20:31:38 <hicham> then you are practically forking purple
20:33:30 <flo> we replaced the preferences system too ;)
20:35:42 <flo> does this make any difference for you?
20:36:14 <hicham> no, I understand the technical reasons for this
20:37:10 <hicham> the other apps that are using vanilla purple are pure gtk ones
20:37:34 <hicham> purple wasn't really a separate lib at first AFAIK, it was internal to pidgin
20:38:18 <hicham> and xulrunner isn't really gtk
20:38:22 <hicham> ( on linux )
20:39:04 <flo> when I said "for you", I meant for your exception request ;)
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20:44:20 <hicham> of course, this is a plus for getting an exception :)
20:45:10 <hicham> i just need to finish the build for 0.3
20:45:26 <hicham> ( i am on a very crappy connection right now )
20:45:51 <hicham> i am using 0.2 without issues
20:47:13 <hicham> i wonder if i can provide a menu in systray via firetray
20:47:40 <hicham> i mean at least to change availability
20:48:46 <hicham> do you have a linux machine to test it on ?
20:49:53 <flo> one of my development machine is a PC with Ubuntu 64bits
20:50:08 <flo> (the other one is a MacBook with Mac OS X 10.5)
20:50:26 <hicham> but IB is 32bits ?
20:50:46 <hicham> i mean the official builds
20:50:55 <flo> that doesn't matter much
20:51:03 <flo> (for development)
20:51:09 <hicham> because i don't have 64bits here
20:51:20 <flo> the 32bit nightlies work on Ubuntu 64
20:51:21 <hicham> i will build an xpi for 32bits only
20:52:04 <flo> if you want to distribute it, it makes more sense to do it for the same architecture as the official release ;)
20:52:21 <hicham> well yes
20:52:49 * hicham is cloning firetray svn repo
20:54:37 <hicham> do you have that machine in front of you ?
20:56:45 <flo> no
21:00:43 <hicham> i need to rebase the patch
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21:12:07 <flo> ah, apparently removing the buddies from the buddy list when the account is removed "magically" works because libpurple removed the buddies from its list and sends signals like for normal contact removals when the account is removed
21:12:23 <flo> Good surprise :)
21:12:31 <flo> I'll only need to fix it for JS proto buddy lists :)
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21:29:21 <clokep> Always nice when things Just Work (tm).
21:30:10 <flo> and I won't have to mess up with the forwardProtocolPrototype as much as I feared
21:30:21 <flo> I had a trivial coding error in C++ somewhere :)
21:30:23 <instantbot> c++ sucks
21:30:23 <sumobot> c++ is e-- ah, nevermind.
21:37:00 <flo> by the way, anybody interested in reviewing the big patch before I push it?
21:38:29 <clokep> Review if for what?
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21:39:16 <flo> for errors, things that look broken, things that are excessively confusing, ...
21:40:45 <flo> Mic: how was iceskating? :)
21:47:22 <Mic> Great, thanks.
21:47:28 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org added attachment 381 to bug 555.
21:47:30 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=555 enh, --, 0.3a1, florian, ASSI, New buddy list backend
21:47:41 <Mic> And I hope you didn't have a car accident? ;)
21:56:53 <flo> ;)
21:57:15 <flo> not even a traffic jam (that's very common on Friday evening)
21:58:14 <clokep> (Sorry flo< I was making dinner. Yes I'll look at it)
21:58:33 <flo> I'm currently cleaning it up
22:03:00 <clokep> I'm excited for contacts.
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22:03:55 <flo> there will be no visible change in the UI with this patch ;)
22:04:25 <clokep> Of course, but now I can bug you to do UI for it. ;)
22:04:28 <flo> the only way to create useful "contacts" at this point is to tweak blist.sqlite by hand
22:04:50 <clokep> I might be wiling to do that. :)
22:04:53 <flo> I haven't even tried
22:04:59 <flo> but it's supposed to "just work"
22:06:09 <flo> the part that I'm not sure yet about contact is if conversation should switch automatically to the most available buddy (if this changes during the conversation) or continue as on the same buddy
22:06:38 <flo> I think we will need to figure this out clearly before it's acceptable to put a UI for make contacts
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22:08:31 <flo> I would like some comments on the signed-on/signed-off signals. Mic may have an opinion on this.
22:08:45 <flo> should they be fired when it's my account that gets connected/disconnected?
22:09:05 <flo> they currently are, but I don't think that makes sense
22:10:18 <Mic> These signals are sent if you sign on or off youself?
22:10:26 <flo> that behavior used to be needed to refresh the UI, but we will use the availability-changed family of signals instead for that.
22:10:49 <clokep> flo: I personally would like it if the conversation just switched to the next available buddy.
22:11:15 <clokep> Although I'd like some UI to be able to switch manually too (i.e. right click > "Buddies" > list of all buddies in that contact, signed out ones are greyed out or something)
22:11:20 <flo> and I think when the user's account get connected/disconnected, it doesn't make sense to, for example, play the sign-on sound once for each buddy that is online
22:12:01 <Mic> I don't think you should get these events in the case in question
22:12:39 <Mic> If someone needs to do things / see which buddies are online when you connect your account then he should listen for the account connected events imo
22:13:10 <flo> there are the availability-changed / status-changed notifications anyway
22:13:21 <Mic> (assuming you already see them when account-connected (or whatelse might be more appropriate) is fired)
22:13:54 <flo> I think I'm going to make "unknown" a 'real' status.
22:14:11 <flo> the status of a buddy is "unknown" when the account to which it is attached is not connected.
22:14:58 <Mic> Sounds good
22:15:04 <flo> in the buddy list these should probably be displayed differently from the offline buddies, which may be messaged if the protocol supports that feature
22:15:37 <clokep> Aren't they already displayed differently?
22:15:42 <clokep> The ? vs. the gray circle?
22:15:50 <flo> only in conversation tabs
22:15:58 <flo> and it's not always accurate
22:16:20 <flo> there's currently no signal when going from "unknown" to "offline"
22:16:23 <Mic> btw "if (!this.contacts.length) {" is length unset if there are no accounts or is this a cast-abuse?
22:16:33 <flo> (my patch doesn't add one either, I'll do that in a follow up)
22:16:53 <flo> Mic: contacts is an array
22:17:15 <Mic> haha, nice answer ;)
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23:04:21 <flo> and now that i've removed all the dumps, I find a bug... :-S
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23:10:42 <hicham> flo : i have built and tested an xpi of firetray with IB support
23:10:53 <flo> cool :)
23:11:05 <hicham> flo : i hope you will have some time to test it
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23:11:15 <flo> not this night
23:11:17 <flo> ;)
23:11:37 <hicham> i am uploading it to my fedorapeople space
23:12:27 <hicham> and prepare a patch to upstream ;)
23:12:50 <hicham> i don't know if svn supports binary patches
23:20:20 <hicham> what a crappy connection !
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23:27:57 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org added attachment 382 to bug 555.
23:27:59 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=555 enh, --, 0.3a1, florian, ASSI, New buddy list backend
23:38:52 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org added attachment 383 to bug 555.
23:38:54 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=555 enh, --, 0.3a1, florian, ASSI, New buddy list backend
23:40:35 <Mic> Good night
23:40:54 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org added attachment 384 to bug 555.
23:40:56 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=555 enh, --, 0.3a1, florian, ASSI, New buddy list backend
23:41:56 <flo> I've attached a patch that is ready for review
23:42:00 <flo> Mic: Good night :)
23:42:43 <hicham> who will review it ?
23:42:48 <flo> I'll do a self-review tomorrow
23:43:01 <flo> and anybody with some time to look at it is welcome to comment
23:52:24 --> rikki has joined #instantbird
23:53:18 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a1pre)
23:58:53 <hicham> flo : sorry, the connection is so crappy tonight that i can't  connect to my fedorapeople space
23:59:11 <hicham> so i won't be able to upload firetray xpi tonight
23:59:18 <flo> what makes it so crappy?
23:59:48 <hicham> the operator