#instantbird log on 10 10 2010

All times are UTC.

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00:41:04 <Mic> good night
00:41:15 <clokep1> 'night
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01:24:04 <auscompgeek> oh Gizmokid2005, you're here as well >.<
01:24:09 <Gizmokid2005> yep
01:24:20 <auscompgeek> Didn't notice :/
01:24:41 <Gizmokid2005> I'm EVERYWHERE!! haha, not really
01:24:45 <auscompgeek> lol
01:24:57 <auscompgeek> You aren't in many of the channels I'm in :P
01:25:16 <auscompgeek> Like the Firefox support website channel :P
01:25:26 <Gizmokid2005> I'm in #firefox on here
01:25:34 <Gizmokid2005> and #thunderbird and #songbird and #nightingale
01:25:38 <Gizmokid2005> as well as tons on freenode :P
01:25:58 <Gizmokid2005> https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=174  <-- hmm, that seems to be the bug that should handle this...but it's closed
01:26:01 <instantbot> Bug 174 enh, --, ---, nobody, RESO WORKSFORME, Portable Instantbird
01:26:05 <auscompgeek> I know that you're in #firefox :P
01:26:20 <auscompgeek> damn, resolved wfm
01:26:26 <Gizmokid2005> read it though
01:26:29 <auscompgeek> yeah
01:26:57 <auscompgeek> I actually have editbugs at Mozilla's Bugzilla :D
01:27:10 <Gizmokid2005> :)
01:27:23 <clokep1> To handle what?
01:27:29 * clokep1 is now known as clokep
01:27:32 <auscompgeek> hm?
01:27:41 <Gizmokid2005> clokep: the portablization request for thunderbird
01:27:58 <clokep> It is portable though, just download the zip version.
01:28:03 <auscompgeek> We already know about the -profile switch, that's in XULRunner actually.
01:28:08 <clokep> I know.
01:28:14 <clokep> What else are you trying to do?
01:28:20 <auscompgeek> clokep: so, it handles pathnames and the like?
01:28:20 <Gizmokid2005> clokep: portableapps.com format
01:28:50 <Gizmokid2005> auscompgeek: being it's XUL runner, it's HIGHLY unlikely that it's already truly portable.
01:28:56 <clokep> Gizmokid2005: Why portableapps.com format? And wouldn't that be handled by them, not by Instantbird?
01:29:24 <auscompgeek> clokep: Gizmokid2005 is actually part of PortableApps.com ;)
01:29:29 <clokep> auscompgeek: If you specify the profile it should be "mostly" portable. I don't think Instantbird touches the registry or anything (unless XULRunner does).
01:29:47 <auscompgeek> last time I checked, XULRunner actually does use the registry.
01:29:48 <clokep> OK. But I don't understand why you'd file a bug on BIO. ;)
01:30:00 <auscompgeek> Yeah, that wasn't us but. ;)
01:30:12 <clokep> I thought it only used it if you registered default extensions, etc.
01:30:40 <auscompgeek> XULRunner always looks for plugins in the registry.
01:30:55 <auscompgeek> even if plugins aren't actually used by the app itself
01:30:59 <clokep> Ah OK.
01:31:09 <Gizmokid2005> clokep: lots of projects I've found have a bug for a portable version on their tracker
01:31:13 <Gizmokid2005> not that it's a good or a bad thing
01:31:15 <Gizmokid2005> just an observation
01:31:37 <clokep> I remember flo1 talking to you about it recently (I think w/ Skeledrew or maybe deOmega).
01:31:42 <clokep> Don't remember what the outcome was. :)
01:31:52 <clokep> Something about it being too new.
01:32:06 <Gizmokid2005> it was I for sure
01:32:09 <Gizmokid2005> eh, kind of
01:32:30 <Gizmokid2005> the PA.c head is still weary because instantbird hasn't hit 1.0 status yet, or even close for that matter.
01:32:37 <auscompgeek> Yeah.
01:32:46 <Gizmokid2005> I know it's stable, etc...but lots of people are scared of early version numbers
01:32:51 <clokep> Version #s don't mean anything.
01:32:56 <auscompgeek> I'll see how portable it actually is.
01:32:58 <Gizmokid2005> and I'm so forgetful I don't recall what we really said either
01:33:06 <Gizmokid2005> I know they don't clokep, but to the average joe, they do.
01:33:14 <Gizmokid2005> most associate <1.0 as new and unstable
01:33:34 <auscompgeek> Yeah... :/
01:33:39 <clokep> I don't really see why that means they can't offer it though if people want it...?
01:33:43 <auscompgeek> That's why my bot is still 0.x :P
01:34:10 <clokep> Just multiply by 10 and it'll be version 3.0. ;)
01:34:20 <auscompgeek> lolwut
01:34:27 <clokep> Or change to base 2 and it'll be 1.1. :)
01:34:46 <Gizmokid2005> lol clokep
01:34:53 <auscompgeek> binary!! :P
01:35:15 <Gizmokid2005> there really hasn't been a lot of request for it, at least on PA.c forums
01:35:19 <auscompgeek> btw, what's sumobot doing in here?
01:35:21 <Gizmokid2005> the last ones I found were from early last year.
01:35:25 <auscompgeek> Gizmokid2005: oh...
01:35:29 <clokep> auscompgeek: We don't know, but he won't leave.
01:35:38 <auscompgeek> I'll tell Cww then.
01:35:43 <auscompgeek> He's in charge of sumobot.
01:35:53 <clokep> Yeah I think we just haven't worried about it.
01:35:58 <clokep> Makes it seem like there's more people. ;)
01:36:16 <auscompgeek> lol
01:36:26 <auscompgeek> well, my ZNC idles in here ;)
01:36:41 <auscompgeek> I think if you kick it out, it shouldn't rejoin.
01:36:48 <auscompgeek> I'm not entirely sure however.
01:37:26 <rikki> use the znc web controlpanel
01:37:27 <rikki> u'll k there
01:37:37 <Gizmokid2005> well time to fire up my sanitary VM now and see what's up with instantbird.
01:40:43 <Gizmokid2005> Hmmm
01:41:00 <Gizmokid2005> is 0.3 slated for a release in the near future?
01:41:21 <clokep> I think flo wnats to release 0.3a1 by the end of the month? Or maybe the end of Nov?
01:41:25 <clokep> I don't remember which.
01:41:33 <Gizmokid2005> so final is still a ways off
01:41:52 <clokep> Yes.
01:47:47 <Gizmokid2005> I'll dig into it more when 3.0a1 comes out
01:47:51 <Gizmokid2005> and start working on it then.
01:48:10 <clokep> Using my x10 system there or are we waiting for 3.0? ;)
01:48:18 <Gizmokid2005> Lol
01:48:22 <Gizmokid2005> x10 :)
01:48:27 <Gizmokid2005> I meant to say .3a1
01:55:09 <auscompgeek> Firefox 4.0 final should be out next month. So... it'd be interesting to see a lot of Mozilla products released around the same time.
01:55:28 <clokep> I thought 4.0 was coming out in like Jan/Feb?
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02:34:24 <auscompgeek> clokep: no, next month, last time I checked
02:35:15 <clokep> auscompgeek: Oh OK, I haven't looked in a while, you're probably right. I use nightlies so doesn't really matter to me.
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03:34:19 <skeledrew> ?
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08:48:15 <Mic> hello
09:32:19 <Mic> flo1: are there going to be any changes to the database structure in blist.sql btw?
09:35:43 <flo1> Good morning :)
09:36:03 <flo1> Mic: probably. I still hope they can be backward compatible, but I can't 100% guarantee it yet.
09:37:29 <Mic> ok, thanks
09:44:06 <flo1> auscompgeek: how does looking for plugins (but not writing anything) in the registry makes the application not portable?
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09:52:02 <Mic> 01:32:46 <Gizmokid2005> I know it's stable, etc...but lots of people are scared of early version numbers
09:52:02 <Mic> 01:32:51 <clokep> Version #s don't mean anything.
09:52:28 <Mic> clokep: I think Gizmokid2005 gave a good example why version numbers actually matter in this very moment
09:53:00 <flo1> Mic: so you want us to rename to what?
09:53:30 <flo1> 4.0 like Fennec, that couldn't even load a page on Even's phone? :-)
09:53:48 <Mic> Depends on the users you're targeting
09:54:23 <flo1> Instantbird Live 2012!
09:59:13 <Mic> Or the other way around: if version numbers _really don't matter_, then why sticking to a number that seems to scare people off? ;)
10:01:13 <flo1> I haven't said they don't matter
10:01:32 <Mic> clokep did
10:02:00 <flo1> We are definitely not 7 major versions away from 1.0
10:03:22 <flo1> I would be a bit disappointed to release 1.0 without an account import wizard though :)
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10:39:33 <Tonnes> hi ..
10:46:28 <flo1> hello :)
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11:15:16 <Tonnes> hey flo1 :) ltns
11:15:29 * flo1 is now known as flo
11:18:43 <Tonnes> Prior to updating the (Dutch) hg repo, I was wondering if there are any changes of obtaining a 0.2 NL release (as the files for that should be in sync)? Or are these chances equal to 0? :)
11:19:03 <Tonnes> s/changes/chances
11:19:42 <flo> I would say you have 49% chances :)
11:20:01 <Tonnes> lol
11:20:04 <flo> We have no good process to do it so it would be a pain
11:20:31 <flo> but I've almost promised I would do it for es-ES, it it's not really more annoying to do it for 2 or 3 locales than it is to do it for only one
11:20:44 <Tonnes> very well, 0.3ax versions are available as well, so not a big problem for thise who want it, I guess
11:21:18 <Tonnes> oh, in that case.. but would it make a difference if the repo is updated, or would you take a spin from the current tip/changeset?
11:21:31 <flo> 0.3a1pre are only nightly builds currently, so people who want a localized version would need to install an langpack and change the UI locale themselves... not really user firendly
11:21:41 <Tonnes> ah, of course
11:21:58 <flo> it would help if you could put a 0.2 tag before doing 0.2-incompatible updates :)
11:22:17 <Tonnes> ah.. using hg that is, right?
11:22:30 <flo> yes
11:22:45 <Tonnes> how to, or is it in the wiki?
11:23:53 <flo> are you using tortoisehg or the command line?
11:24:07 <Tonnes> 1st, but can do CL as well
11:24:49 <flo> in command line, just type "hg tag 0.2"
11:25:00 <flo> it will tag the currently checked out revision
11:25:59 <Tonnes> cool
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11:27:14 <flo> and you probably need to push afterward
11:28:57 <Tonnes> can I do any changes prior to 'hg tag 2.0'?
11:30:30 <Tonnes> i.o.w. make change(s), hg tag 0.2, commit, push?
11:32:23 <flo> I think you need to commit the changes before you tag the revision
11:32:36 <Tonnes> ok
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11:52:30 <Tonnes> flo: after tag, do a new push?
11:52:40 <flo> yes
11:53:41 <Tonnes> done
11:53:57 <Tonnes> wow.. still hassling with tortoise :)
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13:16:30 <Mic> The addon manager is so ugly at the moment .. let's hope they get the UI changes done quickly ;)
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13:34:16 * ChanServ sets mode +o Even 
13:40:55 <Mic> if anyone's bothered by it as well, just ask .. I have a few minor css tweaks that take a good deal of ugliness out of the add-ons manager
13:46:05 <Mic> http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/3059/aomcsstweaks.png
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14:42:20 <clokep> Re Mic & flo about my version numbers comment.
14:42:56 <clokep> To me version #s just keep track of changes in a program (i.e. version 0.5 should be more stable than 0.1), but shouldn't be compared to other programs.
14:43:23 <clokep> I'm sure that doesn't fit with general society's understanding of them, but oh well.
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15:05:24 <Mic> We could use comparatives to denote progress.. ? ;)
15:05:49 <Mic> Instantbird 'awesome', Instantbird 'even more awesome' :P
15:07:38 <clokep> Sounds good to me. :) Names might start to get long though.
15:08:35 <Mic> ...,(even more)² awesome, (even more)³ awesome .. and we're back to version numbers ;)
15:08:54 <Mic> Or just:  Instantbird Awesome³
15:11:08 <flo> Mic: you may be interested in http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1968575
15:12:16 <clokep> We should see if he wants to make that into a patch and run it in Instantbird. ;)
15:12:24 <clokep> Cause that looks really really nice.
15:13:30 <Mic> Thanks, looks interesting
15:14:54 <Mic> I wouldn't say nice, though ..
15:15:08 <Mic> It looks out of place in a tab now
15:15:10 <clokep> I think the second screenshot is.
15:15:18 <clokep> Yeah, but ours isn't in a tab. ;)
15:16:08 <Mic> I've also not the too little space problem
15:18:40 <Mic> Maybe it's even a sin to pack UI into little space when you have more than enough available ;)
15:22:33 <clokep> Hahah.
15:22:47 <clokep> I usually create really bad UI so I'll bow out of this conversation and take your word. :)
15:23:44 <Mic> That's just my two cents
15:25:59 <clokep> flo: Quick question about the comment you left for my patch on bug 207.
15:26:02 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=207 min, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, URLs should not contain Smileys
15:26:38 <flo> clokep: where's the question? :)
15:26:48 <clokep> Oh right.
15:26:56 <clokep> (Sorry I got distracted w/ my fantasy hockey team. :P)
15:27:21 <clokep> You suggest using parentNode.href instead of parentNode.getAttribute("href"), nothing seems to work when I change to that.
15:27:22 <Mic> Speaking of UI issues.. the colour are terrible imo: http://www.ubuntu.com/sites/default/files/active/maverick/U3.1_unity_01_large.jpg :D
15:29:02 <clokep> flo: Oh, it seems by doing .href it automatically adds a trialing slash, I didn't notice that before.
15:29:36 <Tonnes> flo: shouldn't I be getting confirmation e-mails after pushes?
15:31:29 <flo> clokep: a trailing / that isn't in the href attribute?
15:31:41 <clokep> If I sent http://google.com
15:31:58 <flo> which isn't a valid URL...
15:31:58 <clokep> getAttribute("href") == "http://google.com" but href = "http://google.com/"
15:32:05 <flo> ok, keep the getAttribute then :)
15:32:19 <flo> Tonnes: yes
15:32:44 <flo> http://buildbot-l10n.instantbird.org/waterfall shows that you 3 pushes are waiting for the builder... which is offline
15:33:20 <flo> Even: http://buildbot-l10n.instantbird.org/waterfall do you know why your virtual machines are currently offline?
15:35:22 <Tonnes> fo: ok
15:35:28 <Tonnes> ^make that flo :
15:37:00 <Tonnes> not meaning to nag, but what's whith the 0.2 build? are you sure about this, or is it just a matter of wait and see?
15:39:53 <flo> sure about what?
15:40:02 <flo> the 49% chances of doing it?
15:41:15 <Mic> clokep: I start liking the addons manager with the new theme (I copied a few colours from their mockups), but unfortunately it looks so different from the rest of the program
15:42:09 <Tonnes> flo: yep :)
15:42:24 <flo> I'm sure we have no way to do it automatically
15:42:26 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com added attachment 367 to bug 207.
15:42:27 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 367 on bug 207.
15:42:28 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=207 min, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, URLs should not contain Smileys
15:42:43 <clokep> Mic: Its mostly the colors that get me, they're very out of place.
15:42:53 <flo> so someone (I guess I'm that person ;)) will need to do the repackaging
15:46:05 <clokep> Hopefully we can finally close that bug. :P
15:46:55 <Mic> Replacing the blueish colours with shades of grey doesn't look that bad either
15:48:34 <Mic> clokep: have you tried your patch btw?
15:48:40 <Mic> I wonder if this works:
15:48:53 <Mic> if (condition)
15:49:00 <Mic> // comment
15:49:27 <Mic>  oneLineOfCodeWithoutBlockFromIf;
15:49:38 <clokep> Mic: Yes, I'm running with it.
15:49:43 <clokep> It does wokr.
15:49:46 <clokep> I use it all the time.
15:50:24 <Mic> I'm never sure .. with the bracketless notation
15:50:44 <Mic> if it is one line or one statement..
15:51:33 <clokep> Its one statement.
15:51:47 <clokep> You can do if (...) 15 empty lines then one statement with a semicolon. :)
15:52:33 <flo> Mic: it's only a coding style issue ;)
15:52:52 <clokep> I didn't think w had style guidelines for that one. :)
15:54:13 <flo> any idea of the problem with parentNode.textContent ?
15:54:36 <clokep> I think its being mangled by Mozilla or libpurple.
15:54:49 <clokep> Or wait...
15:54:53 <flo> libpurple has nothing to do with the DOM ;)
15:55:04 <clokep> Actually, the href problem might have been covering that up. Oops.
15:56:38 <flo> if you do another iteration of the patch, there are other coding style issues (the first one being the multiline content of the if statement without { })
15:57:05 <clokep> Do you want the opening brace on the end of the first line or the beginning of the next line?
15:57:11 <flo> if the test is on several line, the second (and following lines) should be aligned with the previous one
15:57:27 <clokep> It is?
15:58:04 <clokep> Oh, hmm....it definitely was. :\ My bad.
15:58:13 <clokep> Any others?
15:58:25 <flo> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/430
15:58:44 <flo> the operator at the end of the previous line, not the beginning of the next
15:58:59 <clokep> :) Done.
15:59:51 <flo> coding style comments are always annoying, but it's important to make the code consistent across the project.
16:00:15 <clokep> I agree. :)
16:01:20 <clokep> Mic: If you think that comment location is weird, wait for this one: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/431
16:01:59 <flo> that's dead code, not a comment ;)
16:02:19 <flo> the { should be on the previous line ;)
16:03:50 <Mic> If I had written that I would have moved the second comment before the if ;)
16:03:53 <clokep> Thanks. :) All the function calls do it on the next line though?
16:04:20 <Mic> As it describes what the coming lines are going to do ..
16:04:31 <clokep> Yeah, I'll probably do that.
16:04:40 <clokep> Since I'm gonna have to do another.
16:04:50 <clokep> flo: what was the benefit to parentNode.textContent instead of aNode.data?
16:05:08 <flo> if you have several text nodes, it will still match
16:05:28 <clokep> Several text nodes in the link?
16:05:31 <flo> this can happen if there used to be an HTML tag in the middle that was filtered out
16:06:00 <flo> or if the code is http://XD/<b>test</b>/
16:06:18 <flo> in that case, aNode.data will be http://XD/ and parentNode.textContent will be the full URL
16:07:55 <clokep> Hmm...OK.
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16:15:52 <clokep> Mic:
16:16:06 <clokep> You'll be happy to know...I rewrote my patch and took into account your silly <a href=*><b>*</b></a> case. :)
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16:20:04 <Mic> If it's any comfort to you: here's Mossop getting a coding style nit: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=591801#c24 ;)
16:20:47 <clokep> Hahah, I don't mind that at all -- everyone's style is different and mine tends to be funky. Never really coded w/ others before.
16:21:15 <flo> Mic: I disagree with it.
16:21:25 <flo> I'm sure Mano has asked me the opposite in the past :-D
16:22:09 <flo> or I think so at least :-D
16:22:32 <Mic> I would have used the new line as well (but that's not the thing I meant here)
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16:22:56 <clokep> flo: I found one case where this is really hard to match: something like www.google.com/XD
16:23:15 <clokep> The href and getAttribute("href") in this case are both http://www.google.com/XD
16:23:28 <Mic> 'if' and 'else' are on the same level and you should see that (i.e. same indentation)
16:23:55 <clokep> And I mean I could check using "indexOf" sort of thing or some funky regex pattern but I think we'd end up picking up a bunch of cases we don't want to match.
16:24:21 <flo> Mic: I agree. I think I would have argued on that comment ;)
16:24:46 <Mic> bbl
16:24:53 <flo> clokep: what's the problem in this case?
16:25:48 <clokep> www.google.com/XD != http://www.google.com/XD :)
16:27:55 <Mic> the first is not a proper url, as it is missing the protocol scheme
16:28:12 <clokep> But its autolinked at some point In instantbird.
16:28:49 <Mic> I'm away now, have a nice evening
16:29:10 <flo> Mic: Good evening :)
16:29:10 <clokep> Bye!
16:29:24 <flo> clokep: what about detecting it's been auto-linkified then? :)
16:30:03 <clokep> Is there a way to do that? :-D Is there something special about the node?
16:31:00 <flo> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/netwerk/streamconv/converters/mozTXTToHTMLConv.cpp#474
16:31:36 <flo> parentNode.className == "moz-txt-link-freetext"
16:31:58 <clokep> KK.
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16:32:40 * clokep really needs to shut off auto-updates.
16:38:06 <flo> maybe check only the beginning of the class name, parentNode.indexOf("moz-txt-link-") != -1 so that it works with auto-linkified emails too
16:38:32 <clokep> That's exactly what I died. :)
16:38:38 <clokep> s/died/did/
16:38:51 <clokep> It was actually "abbreviated" not "freetext" also. :-\
16:39:45 <flo> ah, maybe abbreviated was the very specific case that you were interested in (no scheme in the text)? :)
16:39:54 <clokep> Yes. :)
16:41:36 <clokep> Yay it works. :)
16:43:15 <clokep> flo: Can you look over the section of code real quick before I make it a patch?
16:43:34 <flo> pastebin?
16:44:42 <clokep> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/432
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16:46:01 <clokep> Oh, let me explain why I'm checking both aNode.data and textNode.textContent.
16:46:06 <clokep> They get different cases.
16:46:52 <clokep> You know why testNode.textContent is important., but aNode.data is important for the following case: <a href="http://google.com/XD">http://google.com/XD <b>Bold text!</b></a>
16:49:06 <flo> I know
16:49:14 <flo> not sure I will know the next time I read the code though :(
16:50:13 <clokep> Mic: I agree those colors are super ugly in the new Ubuntu. :-\
16:50:20 <clokep> flo: I'll write a longer comment? :)
16:50:37 <flo> good idea
16:50:41 <flo> "parts of link nodes" is not very clear
16:50:41 <clokep> You want multiline style with the *s aligned?
16:50:54 <flo> if you like them yes
16:51:26 <flo> We are not really consistent between mutiple // lines and /* * * * */ lines, so do what you prefer ;)
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16:52:02 <clokep> :) OK.
16:52:17 <flo> is .trim really needed?
16:52:46 <clokep> Yes/
16:52:46 <clokep> Oops.
16:52:47 <clokep> Yes.
16:53:04 <clokep> If there's a trailing space before the next node starts its needed.
16:53:18 <clokep> I'm not sure its neded on the textContent one actually, but on the aNode.data it is.
16:53:19 <flo> by the way, coding style: multi-lines while, { } ;)
16:53:55 <clokep> :)
16:54:00 <clokep> Is that return 0 in the proper place?
16:54:11 <clokep> I think its just looks really funky but it is.
16:54:50 <flo> ah, no
16:54:55 <flo> 2 spaces indent after the if
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16:56:31 <clokep> Ah you're right. :)
16:56:35 <clokep> That looks better!
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16:56:54 * flo wishes the files were stored without white-space, and indented automatically by the editor for display only, following each developer's preferences
16:58:24 <clokep> That would be pretty awesome. :)
16:58:50 <clokep> Oh also, is it ok to just return 0 or should I return result and put the result = 0 above it?
17:00:58 <flo> return 0 is ok
17:02:48 <clokep> OK Gonna post a new patch then...it'll work, it might just take 15 patches. ;)
17:10:47 <Mic> I saw a blog entry on pmo a few weeks ago with interesting thoughts on formatting code
17:12:44 <Mic> http://blog.cdleary.com/2010/07/coding-style-as-a-feature-of-language-design/
17:14:40 <clokep> Let's try this again. :)
17:14:48 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com added attachment 368 to bug 207.
17:14:50 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com cancelled review?(florian@instantbird .org) for attachment 367 on bug 207.
17:14:51 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 368 on bug 207.
17:14:52 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=207 min, --, ---, clokep, ASSI, URLs should not contain Smileys
17:16:28 <clokep> I got an email saying I cancelled my own review...that's kind of...unnecessary?
17:16:39 <clokep> Well I guess to amke sure you mean to do it.
17:28:43 <clokep> Mic: Also were you the one who was asking about cancelling reviews on attachments or making them obsolete? I always just mark it obsolete when I upload a new one and that makes it obsolete + cancels any outstanding reviews.
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17:35:42 <Mic> I was wondering if one could change several at once
17:36:21 <Mic> I had this problem with the suggestions for the new Options icons where a few were valid until one was chosen
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17:41:32 <clokep> Ohhh. Yeah. I'm not sure. :)
17:46:51 <Mic> Sometimes it would be great to have 'top-down' comments in code
17:47:13 <Mic> What's been done in this file, which methods does it have before coming to all these details
17:48:42 <clokep> It'd be easy enough to start that. ;)
17:49:59 <clokep> Well in theory, I guess you still need to make people do it...
17:54:30 <flo> "I got an email saying I cancelled my own review...that's kind of...unnecessary?" I've always thought that email was stupid when the review was cancelled because marking one's own patch as obsolete and carrying forward the review flag
17:55:45 <flo> I like having 1-5 lines at the beginning of the file explaining its purpose.
17:55:54 <flo> I rarely do it though, except sometimes in interface files
17:56:23 <flo> clokep: hey, you are already at version 0.3? :)
17:56:30 <flo> what about the x10 thing ;)
17:56:46 <clokep> flo: Next time I'll start at 0.0.1. ;)
17:57:03 <clokep> And I'm really at version 1.3. :P Since I had a bunch of iterations doing it a different way. :)
17:58:38 <flo> looks good :)
17:59:02 <flo> I'll try it before pushing it, but I assume you have tried it before attaching it, so there should be no surprise :)
17:59:29 <flo> "Skip link nodes that contain the href in the child text node" is still not very clear. The node you skip is a text node, not the link node
17:59:37 <clokep> I tried it, with a bunch of different cases although I'm sure I didn't think of every different one. ;)
18:00:00 <clokep> Hmm...I tried to make it clearer.
18:00:19 <clokep> "Skip text nodes that are child of a link and contain the href"? Is that make more sense?
18:00:48 <flo> yes
18:01:25 <clokep> Do you want a new patch? :-D
18:01:35 <flo> I can change it before commiting/pushing
18:02:02 <flo> if you really want a 0.4, make sure you also add a "." at the end of that sentence, and the last sentence of the comment ;)
18:02:24 <clokep> I don't want a 0.4 :P I'll let you do it. :)
18:02:30 <flo> ok!
18:02:43 <flo> I'll be happy to have this bug closed and forget-able :)
18:03:19 <clokep> Me too. :)
18:03:40 <flo> was it annoying you everyday? :-D
18:04:16 <clokep> Maybe not /everyday/, but it happens a lot. :(
18:04:54 <flo> it was a good itch to scratch then :)
18:07:57 <clokep> Next I should work on IRC again at some point.
18:09:04 <flo> what was the current status of the code,
18:09:04 <flo> ?
18:09:35 <clokep> I broke it slightly (changed a function without changing the calls) but its overall working.
18:09:37 <flo> anything that was blocking/annoying you in addition to that strange purpleIConvIM/purpleIConvChat behavior?
18:10:20 <clokep> I think now that I just went around that I can work on it for quite a while implementing things. Not sure if I have participants working again since I broke other things. :)
18:10:49 <clokep> Nothing I'm waiting for you on though flo. :)
18:11:16 <flo> good
18:11:27 <flo> I have lots of things to break and rewrite before I can focus on IRC to help you ;)
18:12:00 <flo> once I'm done with the buddies, I'll need to look at the way we set the status
18:16:08 <clokep> Not a problem. :) These next couple weeks are awfully busy for me except weekends anyway.
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20:05:08 <Mic> Nice to hear that, clokep
20:05:20 <Mic> I wonder what the solution to bug 318 looks like
20:05:24 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=318 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Check if topic on IRC channels is editable and make UI respond accordingly
20:05:43 <clokep> Solution: Make it more awesome.
20:06:50 <Mic> The problem with the current IRC plugin is, that you send the command to get the flags on the channel and the response is shown in the conversation window
20:08:00 <Mic> well, not really an urgent problem though ;)
20:08:01 <clokep> I think there needs to be UI to show your "status" in the conversation (i.e. what you're allowed to do).
20:08:08 <clokep> Idk where though, do you have any ideas?
20:08:17 <clokep> Statusbar is the only thing I thought of. :-\
20:09:51 <Mic> For the topic thingie I'd disable the 'edit topic'-UI elements
20:10:31 <Mic> What other status are you thinking about?
20:11:05 <Mic> voice,halfop and op are shown on the participants list
20:11:42 <clokep> There's also founder status. ;)
20:11:57 <Mic> Right
20:12:04 <clokep> There's also oper on the server, not the channel.
20:12:21 <Mic> I'm not sure what other status' there are on IRC
20:12:39 <Mic> I think I saw +n and +p on channel but I don't know what they are
20:12:43 <Mic> *channels
20:12:57 <clokep> There's a lot of them.
20:13:21 <clokep> Mic: at least these: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2812#section-3.1.5
20:14:34 <clokep> I'd kind of like the status bar an "aiwroOs" there and clicking them toggles your status.
20:14:53 <clokep> (So I click "i" and it sets my status to invisible and changes the icon to reflect that somehow.)
20:16:25 <clokep> Also I'd like some UI to reflect the flags of the channel.
20:17:03 <clokep> And a "set topic" in the right click menu of a channel (disabled of course if you don't have the rights to set it.)
20:17:13 <flo> can you think of a way to make this "normal user"-understandable?
20:17:15 <Mic> I'm sure you'll never get a r+ for "aiwroOs"  ;)
20:18:15 <Mic> clokep: could please try to join channel #test12345
20:18:57 <clokep> Mic: OK...I "tried"?
20:19:13 <Mic> And it didn't work as it seems ..
20:19:35 <clokep> flo: Not really, but IRC is rather user unfriendly to begin with, anything is better than having to type commands and see some random garbage (i.e. the mode string) come back on the screen.
20:19:37 <flo> have you done anything special to it?
20:19:37 <Mic> I just wanted to try the limit number of users setting
20:20:05 <Mic> Set it to 1 with "mode +l 1"
20:20:11 <flo> clokep: aren't the IRC clients unfriendly, rather than the protocol?
20:20:32 <clokep> flo: They're both unfriendly. :)
20:20:53 <clokep> Well what would be a good UI for showing the modes then?
20:20:59 <clokep> I think its important information. . .
20:21:00 <flo> I don't mind a bit of unfriendlyness for channel administrators
20:21:16 <flo> but regular users should not have garbage in front of them if they only join a support channel to ask a question
20:21:54 <flo> would you be able to summarize them in a one-line plain English sentence?
20:22:04 <Mic> well, you can have a set maximum number of users box next to the participant count which would take care of  "+L" for example.. (or hide it if you have no rights for that
20:22:17 <flo> like "This channel is limited to registered users." "This channel is currently moderated.", etc...
20:22:42 <flo> Mic: who cares about the limit of users in real life?
20:22:57 <Mic> It was an example
20:23:10 <flo> I known :).
20:23:15 <clokep> flo: I think you can do 1 sentence descriptions for them. OK, so if its not important for most users, how can we show them for users that care? ;)
20:23:18 <Mic> one that didn't involve any L's 
20:23:19 <flo> But it's particularly unfriendly to limit users ;)
20:23:35 <flo> clokep: with an add-on?
20:24:05 <flo> we should make sure the information is available in the API from the protocol plugin. We don't have to show all the info we have in the default UI.
20:24:33 <clokep> Right, well we need an API for it then. :)
20:25:03 <Mic> The topic bar/chat header is going to change anyways one day.. we could add icons to toggle things like "moderated", a way on the participant list to toggle the status of other users (if possible), ..
20:25:08 <flo> I think the "I need to administer this chatroom" is a specific enough case that installing an add-on is all right
20:25:53 <clokep> flo: And that add-on would add things like a "Kick" to the context menu? (Which doesn't exist yet at all. :))
20:25:59 <Mic> (cycling through no-op, half-op, op by successive clicks on a star icon on the list?
20:26:08 <flo> a way from the participants list to op/kick/ban users from the context menu would be great... if we can be sure that the user is allowed to do it
20:26:25 <clokep> You can tell from the MODE AFAIK.
20:27:12 <flo> shouldn't we remove the mode lines and replace them with plain text ("Flo is now operator." for example)?
20:27:23 <Mic> I think so
20:27:30 <clokep> Yes. :)
20:27:34 <flo> "mode +o" or "mode -b" at cryptic...
20:27:35 <flo> *are
20:28:03 <flo> I would even prefer "Flo entered the room and is operator."
20:28:13 <clokep> That's asking a little much. ;)
20:28:35 <clokep> The issue with that one is that you have to combine messages I believe.
20:28:48 <clokep> (I.e. you get one message saying flo entered and another with your mode.)
20:28:53 <Mic> Welcome to my world :P
20:30:14 <Mic> Having no-/half-/op groups and dragging and dropping users between them?
20:31:17 <clokep> Well what's a sane API for giving this information flo? purpleIConvChatBuddy has the voiced halfOp, op, founder flags...but there's more than that. :-\
20:33:07 <flo> clokep: if you know what we need, you can define a sane imIConvChatBuddy API ;)
20:33:42 <flo> I think I would like to add at least a timestamp for when the user joined or left the room
20:34:02 <flo> and probably a string or two to store details
20:34:14 <flo> the location for example (which is currently displayed in join messages)
20:34:20 <clokep> flo: I'm not sure I do though. :( I just know its more than that hahah. I can always just add stuff in the JS Implementation though for now.
20:34:25 <clokep> Location?
20:34:27 <flo> and the quit message could also be saved
20:34:43 <clokep> Yes, I was hoping to make the quit/part message part of the account.
20:34:51 <flo> of the account?
20:35:12 <clokep> Like account options style.
20:35:27 <flo> how is it related to the purpleIConvChatBuddy API? :)
20:35:41 <clokep> Not at lal. :) Just rambling at this point.
20:35:52 <flo> but yeah, that should probably be an account advanced option
20:35:54 * clokep thinks he should write all this down somewhere. . .
20:36:02 <flo> (I like knowing which version of instantbird people are using though ;))
20:36:32 <clokep> The thing is that ConvChatBuddy is for all chat rooms wher ethe stuff I need is IRC specific for the most part, how can we make a good API for that?
20:36:55 <clokep> Do I make a purpleIConvChatBuddyIRC class that has extra flags? :)
20:36:56 <flo> the libpurple thing is also IRC-centric
20:37:12 <flo> I guess we need to implement in JS another protocol that has chatrooms, so that we know what's needed
20:37:18 <clokep> Eh, yeah but it shouldn't be. :(
20:37:27 <clokep> Should I start reading XMPP stuff? ;)
20:39:42 <flo> If I remember well, XMPP MUCs are quite different from IRC
20:41:18 <clokep> I actually don't think I've ever been in an XMPP MUC.
20:43:12 <Mic> If we add things like the context menu to the participants list and it is too IRC specific, then well need another MUC user interface for 'standard MUCs'
20:43:29 <clokep> I agree. :)
20:43:44 <clokep> I have to go though, going running w/ a friend. Will be back (just leave messages if you have a question for me).
20:43:45 <Mic> The problem with offering protocol specific options again
20:43:56 <flo> I'm not sure such a thing ("standard MUCs") exists :-S
20:44:34 <Mic> flo: I meant that the current system can treat both irc and xmpp MUCs while an irc-specific solution wouldn't
20:45:19 <clokep> I think flo is right: we need to identify all features of a few MUCs and how they differ.
20:45:27 <flo> If I remember well, the current op/halfop/voiced thing of the participants list doesn't fit very well with XMPP MUCs
20:46:04 <clokep> Would we be able to have a base MUC binding and an IRC, XMPP, etc. binding built on top of those?
20:46:14 <Mic> Should protocols bring their own UI customizations (i.e. xul and js pieces they need to provide a decent interface)?
20:46:18 <clokep> Idk how absurd that is.
20:46:30 <Mic> This doesn't sound good to me though
20:46:53 <Mic> (that was about my own question)
20:47:04 <flo> Mic: maybe they would provide "jetpack"s to customize the UI without depending on how the UI looks? :-P
20:47:30 <clokep> I was actually wondering if JS protocols could provide their own "advanced" pane for account options?
20:47:43 <Mic> Then Ib would need to offer the options in some way and I'm not sure it could be much better than a menu
20:47:50 <flo> clokep: what do you want them to provide?
20:48:05 <flo> any idea of something you cannot get with the current system that would be useful for IRC?
20:48:23 <clokep> I'm not sure how the current system works. :)
20:48:36 <flo> the protocol defines a list of fields
20:49:09 <Mic> I'd really like to see a good way to generate a settings/options UI from a list of preferences with some additional information
20:49:13 <flo> each has a type (number, string, choice in a list, boolean (checkbox)), a name (id) and a label (localized)
20:49:16 <clokep> Can you choose what they are? (Like bool vs string?)
20:49:20 <flo> the UI is built using that list
20:49:25 <Mic> I think there was a JEP for this somewhere, no idea what came out of this
20:49:33 <clokep> Oh OK, That'll work. :)
20:49:46 <clokep> Just its not available to JS protos yet, right? There's a bug about that....
20:49:54 <flo> compare the advanced preference of and IRC, XMPP, MSN, AIM (or whatever account)
20:49:57 <flo> you will see they are very different
20:50:20 <flo> I don't remember if there's a problem there
20:50:39 <flo> I can't think of any right now, but that doesn't guarantee that it works with JS proto
20:51:29 <clokep> Yeah, maybe not. :) I was thinking of bug 118 I think.
20:51:32 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=118 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Extensions should be able to register commands.
20:51:40 <flo> completely unrelated
20:52:03 <clokep> I know. Just got my thoughts crossed.
20:52:13 <clokep> I think I combined that w/ bug 378 ;)
20:52:16 <flo> you need to implement: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/purplexpcom/public/purpleIProtocol.idl#64
20:52:16 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=378 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Validation of nicknames on dialogs/wizards
20:52:28 <clokep> And some how came up what we were talking about.
20:52:37 <clokep> Ah OK. I'm not too worried about all that right now though. :)
20:52:40 <flo> and see http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/purplexpcom/public/purpleIPref.idl
20:52:43 <Mic> I was referring to this btw: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Labs/Jetpack/JEP/24 (sounds pretty interesting but is no longer worked on)
20:53:17 <clokep> I'm more worried about getting the protocol working than the configuration of it. ;)
20:53:50 * clokep is now known as clokep_away
20:54:37 <flo> it's in my todo list to actually try adding some proto-specific options to see how tedious it is and decide if we need to improve the API
20:54:49 <flo> I may also just add an helper in jsProtoHelper to make it trivial to handler
20:54:53 <flo> *handle
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21:11:52 <flo> Good evening/night!
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21:49:46 <Mic> nn
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