#instantbird log on 10 07 2010

All times are UTC.

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01:33:11 <hicham> i just seen buzzbird
01:33:24 <hicham> a twitter client powered by mozilla
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01:46:06 <clokep> hicham: I used buzzbird for a while.
01:46:11 <clokep> I usually use the website though.
01:46:11 <clokep> Its good.
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07:09:59 <flo> Good morning :)
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08:26:52 <Mic> good morning
08:28:39 <Mic> Ah, today's nightly builds failed because we don't need the patch for the add-ons manager anymore
08:36:37 <flo> yes :)
08:36:41 <flo> it's a "good" failure ;)
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08:47:41 * flo has fixes for netsoul crashes :)
08:50:05 <flo> there are very few netsoul users, and a netsoul crash it the most common Instantbird crash on crashstats... doesn't seem right ;)
08:57:31 <Mic> I *think* I'm having problems with status notifications, I'm just not sure..
08:58:28 <Mic> Sometimes I receive several status changes at once (eg people signing of at the exact moment)
08:59:06 <Mic> It just seems unlikely, taking into account that there are rarely more than five people online in my list
09:00:11 <flo> notifications from different people?
09:00:21 <Mic> yes
09:00:54 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/850969c52bd3 - Florian Quèze - Fix netsoul crashes.
09:00:54 <Mic> I think I see them signing off the moment I click the buddy list
09:00:55 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/3d627b1eb125 - Florian Quèze - Bug 591801 is fixed, we no longer need the partial backout of bug 562797.
09:01:50 <Mic> Notifications might be the wrong word here ..
09:02:01 <Mic> Let's say status changes
09:02:55 <Mic> (I'm seeing them sign off from the list, not through my Buddy Status notifications)
09:05:19 <flo> oh, you are not talking about the notification from the observer service, but about the popup notification?
09:09:15 <Mic> It seems to happen with both the animation in the buddy list and my popup notifications
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09:09:44 <Mic> I haven't ruled out that I'm doing funny things on my notifications, so let's ignore them for now
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11:58:09 <clokep> Mic: Some protocols seem to do that (i.e. sign on/off aren't instantaneous), I've noticed it with Facebook that every minute or so it seems to ping about who's online and then signs on/off a bunch of users.
12:02:27 <Mic> Since most of my contacts are on Facebook it could be that it is exactly this
12:03:45 <Mic> *buddies
12:05:48 <Mic> btw a 'buddy' can be anyone in american, can't it?
12:06:53 <clokep> What do you mean "anyone"?
12:06:58 <Mic> uh ..
12:07:08 <clokep> In regular speech a buddy is a friend, a pal, etc.
12:07:35 <clokep> In this context a "buddy" can be anyone on your buddy list, even that guy on Facebook you're not really friends with but for some social construct you can't defriend him. ;)
12:07:36 <Mic> Somewhere I read something like ..  two people meeting in a bar and noticing they like the same brand of beer could make them buddies already (as strange as this sounds to me)
12:07:57 <clokep> Eh, I'd call them acquaintances. ;)
12:10:34 <Mic> Have you noticed this behaviour on Facebook's web chat as well?
12:10:44 <clokep> Yes.
12:10:51 <Mic> too bad
12:11:18 <clokep> A lot of times in the webchat it'll show "10 buddies" and then when I click on the webchat it'll update to "15 buddies" or "5 buddies" or whatever.
12:11:25 <clokep> But not until I bring up the menu.
12:12:04 <rikki> facebook web interface is broken
12:12:54 <rikki> from wat i've read the chat server which we used was hacked into the existing chat system
12:13:18 <Mic> The 'XMPP server' is just a gateway to their chat system
12:13:28 <rikki> yea ik that
12:13:35 <Mic> That's why they don't support anything in a way ;)
12:13:44 <rikki> but non the less it was hacked in
12:14:04 <clokep> Yeah, they use some custom protocol based on XHR, so it'd kind of make sense that it was all time based on some refresh ping.
12:14:46 <Mic> If we'd use their web api we could query the status more frequently
12:16:09 <rikki> i'll talk to u guys tmrw, o btw i've been a web developer b4 i started back on java
12:16:28 <rikki> so this technology is still on my mind lol
12:16:47 <clokep> Mic: Didn't flo mention something about possibly wanting to make a "real" Facebook chat protocol instead of using the XMPP gateway?
12:17:04 <Mic> yes, just filing a bug for this :D
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12:17:24 <clokep> The only scary part about that is what happens when they change their API? ;)
12:18:30 <Mic> fall back to xmpp until we fix it
12:19:51 <instantbot> New purplexpcom - General bug 538 filed by benediktp@ymail.com.
12:19:52 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=538 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Reimplement Facebook chat
12:21:08 <Mic> I wonder if this could be done completely automatically .. 
12:21:20 <Mic> Falling back to xmpp if the normal plugin fails for some reason
12:22:46 <clokep> :) Its possible.
12:32:04 <Mic> Now I got three ICQ notifications at once :S
12:32:15 <Mic> (via Buddy Status popups)
12:43:44 <clokep> Oh no. :(
12:46:06 <clokep> Found some references to the API. ;)
12:47:19 <clokep> I'll be back in a bit.
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14:49:56 <clokep> Good morning.
15:00:54 <Andrey> hi
15:01:05 <clokep> Hello Andrey.
15:21:15 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/a8fc7f06ff06 - Florian Quèze - Port patch from Glib Bug 167569 - g_string_append_printf crashes on win32 when used with a NULL
15:21:17 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/2df0778069b5 - Florian Quèze - Copy the patch from Pidgin ticket #12387 (mtn revision c7f2cce48dfe465889b7803de44156e7e89e41e0) in an attempt to fix one of the MSN crashes.
15:21:48 <flo> the next nightly should have a "reduced support for crashing" ;)
15:23:07 <clokep> Keywords: /should/, /reduced/ ;)
15:23:40 <flo> we have removed 3 of the 4 top crashers
15:24:13 <clokep> I bet the oscar one is the one that's left, right?
15:24:17 <Mic> Then there'll be three new top crashers by tomorrow ;)
15:24:26 <flo> clokep: exactly
15:24:31 <Mic> Which is not as bad as it sounds ;)
15:24:31 <clokep> Just my luck. :(
15:24:42 <flo> but it's part of those we spent time on
15:24:53 <flo> and Adium developers are on it too
15:25:04 <flo> it's been there for more than 2 years already!
15:25:11 <clokep> Wow!
15:25:16 <clokep> Pidgin guys aren't interestd in it.
15:25:28 <flo> clokep: http://developer.pidgin.im/ticket/5927
15:26:38 <clokep> Ah, I see.
15:26:51 <flo> http://pidgin.im/pipermail/devel/2010-October/009876.html
15:27:10 <flo> (if anybody is interested by the details of our interactions with the pidgin team)
15:28:37 <clokep> That's a long email. :)
15:30:02 <flo> and it took time to write it ;)
15:40:21 <clokep> Haha.
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17:00:51 * flo ponders writing a JS module to make it extremely simple to do an SQL request in blist.sqlite
17:09:18 <Mic> ah, how's the buddy list rewrite going?
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17:15:44 <flo> Mic: I've just finished debugging the code to create a new group/tag.
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17:52:38 <Mic> Syncing will be an ugly thing :S
17:53:12 <Mic> I need to keep track which buddies belong to each account and change / reassign account ids internally and such
17:55:27 <Mic> I guess I'll have a few messed up profiles until then ;)
18:03:48 <flo> the account names would be hard to sync, yeah...
18:04:23 <flo> wait, if the accounts are synced, they can have the same id everywhere
18:12:25 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org set the Resolution field on bug 497 to WORKSFORME.
18:12:27 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=497 cri, --, ---, nobody, RESO WORKSFORME, Crash on theme change
18:13:33 <Mic> Good :)
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18:56:35 <Mic1> Sorry, router problems
18:58:09 <flo> Good night!
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19:06:59 <Mic1> bye
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20:50:24 <Mic> clokep: interesting: the current IRC plugin actually checks the online status of IRC contacts added to the buddy list
20:53:40 <clokep> Mic: It should.
20:54:33 <Mic> There are no sign-on/sign-off notifications in IRC, so it has to rely on polling the status
20:54:49 <clokep> Most likely, yes.
20:55:00 <clokep> But you can request a list of all signed on users.
20:55:10 <Mic> which is not exactly the best practice but if nothing else helps
20:55:15 <clokep> Mmhmm.
20:55:29 <clokep> Not quite good, but its good enough.
20:59:38 <clokep> I've never added any buddies though. :)
21:01:22 <Mic> I just tried because of Sync ..
21:01:48 <clokep> :) Yes, unfortunately the IRC protocol is kind of eh.
21:01:59 <Mic> All other services that I use keep buddy lists on their servers while IRC doesn't
21:02:22 <clokep> Ah OK.
21:02:31 <Mic> That means that two clients can have different buddies in their lists
21:02:42 <clokep> Isn't a local copy kept anyway?
21:04:03 <Mic> 'who' keeps a copy of what?
21:04:40 <clokep> Doesn't Instantbird keep a local copy of all the buddy lists in blist.sql?
21:04:43 <clokep> Or whatever the file is.
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21:05:45 <Mic> yes .. that's why syncing won't be as easy as syncing accounts only
21:06:56 <clokep> OK, so why does it matter that IRC doesn't have a server side list? Doesn't that make it easier?
21:08:39 <Mic> because then I can't rely on that each instance of Instantbird has the same buddies for each account
21:09:03 <Mic> (well, maybe I couldn't even then because of local alias' for buddies?)
21:09:24 <Mic> so I definitely need to sync buddies as well
21:09:28 <clokep> I don't think you can anyway.
21:09:36 <clokep> Local alias.
21:09:47 <clokep> Also does Instantbird delete buddies from the server when you remove them? (I don't think Pidgin does.)
21:10:33 <Mic> What good are server side lists when you don't modify them?
21:11:06 <clokep> I agree. :)
21:11:59 <clokep> You'll need to sync tags as well?
21:12:44 <Mic> Most likely anything that's there
21:13:10 <Mic> I wish it could be split into pieces, but syncing buddies without accounts doesn't make sense for example
21:13:28 <clokep> :-\ It does slightly.
21:13:31 <clokep> But not really.
21:13:36 <clokep> Its "usable" but kind of eh.
21:14:24 <Mic> It might work if there's an existing account of the same service which I could attach them too, but it sounds ugly to be honst
21:14:26 <Mic> *honest
21:20:25 <Mic> good nig`ht
21:20:51 <clokep> night!
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