#instantbird log on 09 17 2010

All times are UTC.

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03:15:32 <clokep> Mic: I pushed a "README" to the default branch. :) Changed some wording of yours and added my own.
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07:09:12 <flo> Good morning
07:09:13 <flo> ah, the style of the topic bar is correct today :)
07:10:20 <flo> by the way, can any of you still reproduce bug 505 with a current nightly? I think it seemed fixed yesterday already for me.
07:10:22 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=505 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Unable to close Topic notification bar
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07:36:46 <Mic> Good morning
07:37:11 <Mic> flo: what do you mean by "the style of the topic bar is correct today"?
07:37:24 <Mic> On Linux it turned yellow and is missing the info-icon
07:37:32 <flo> it looked completely broken yesterday. It was just a flat gray area
07:37:41 <flo> (on Mac that is)
07:37:48 <flo> it's back to normal (= as before) today
07:37:58 <flo> ah, the linux nightly hasn't been compiled this night
07:38:07 <flo> and we are missing 2 windows nightlies :-/
07:38:32 <Mic> On Windows the styling was last time I checked, but the input field for editing the topic was empty when going to edit mode
07:39:05 <Mic> hmm, I was a few nightlies behind on Linux and just updated. Seems I got an older one than I expected ;)
07:40:44 <Mic> After a few merging issues on /experiments/& we decided to abuse branches to separate our work btw
07:40:53 <flo> I read that
07:41:06 <flo> was wondering if you had tried rebasing before pushing
07:41:27 * Mic not.
07:41:39 <Mic> I'll have a look what that is and how it works ;)
07:42:46 <flo> it pretends the repository was in a different revision when you commited
07:42:55 <flo> so that you can avoid the merge, and just push anyway without adding a merge changeset
07:44:03 <Mic> ok
07:44:35 <Mic> I'm also fine with the branch solution though
07:47:07 <flo> yeah, even if rebasing was better (which I'm not sure of), it would probably not be worth changing again :)
07:48:24 <Mic> That would only add a few new merges
07:48:45 <Mic> I guess people will  think anyways that we're n00bs when looking at the branch history ;)
07:48:59 <flo> who cares?
07:49:07 <Mic> (even though the colours are nice;)
07:49:10 <Mic> http://hg.instantbird.org/experiments/graph
07:49:13 <flo> everybody needs to start some time...
07:49:36 <Mic> Well, in a way I'm really a newbie concerning hg
07:56:56 * Mic just set up a version control for his thesis work.
07:57:18 <Mic> I don't know if it's really useful but I think it won't hurt either.
07:57:54 <flo> Cool :)
07:57:57 <flo> using hg too?
07:57:59 <Mic> Yes
07:58:23 <Mic> I think it could be really useful for the graphics
08:03:09 <Mic> bbl
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09:09:03 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 510 filed by chrismt@rocketmail.com.
09:09:05 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=510 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Invisible mode
09:16:28 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 511 filed by chrismt@rocketmail.com.
09:16:30 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=511 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, VIEW menu
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09:17:26 <ChrisThomas> o/ mic
09:24:44 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 512 filed by chrismt@rocketmail.com.
09:24:46 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=512 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Pirate English support
09:32:38 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 513 filed by chrismt@rocketmail.com.
09:32:40 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=513 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Auto - Reply
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12:10:30 <clokep> Mic: Best part about using Hg is the graphs. :)
12:10:43 <clokep> well maybe second best (best being the versioning ;))
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12:17:23 <Mic|web> clokep: I just saw your comment in the log and thought I have to respond :D
12:17:43 <Mic|web> I didn't mean the branch graphs but the graphs I produce for my thesis.
12:18:25 <Mic|web> It's nie to have older version available without having to care saving the script- and result files manually
12:18:43 <Mic|web> but yes, the graphs there are nice, too :P
12:18:48 <Mic|web> *nice
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12:28:46 <clokep> Oh, haha. :) What's your thesis on? If you don't mind me asking.
12:31:51 <hicham> morning
12:33:54 <clokep> Good morning.
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12:36:47 <Mic|web> I do.
12:36:51 <Mic|web> Just kiddin'
12:37:53 <Mic|web> It's "dynamics of two dimensional electron gases", I'm developing an experimental setup, measure different samples with it and do some theory on it
12:38:19 <clokep> That sounds fun. :P
12:38:36 <clokep> Making me think of my thermodynamics and fluids classes. Not fun. :-\
12:40:38 <hicham> thermodynamics is a hard subject
12:40:49 <Mic|web> Not my most favourite subject either
12:41:05 <Mic|web> Fluid dynamics has some interesting things .. 
12:41:18 <clokep> I'm more of a solid dynamics type of guy. :)
12:41:27 <clokep> n-dimensional motion.
12:41:29 <Mic|web> .. I think there were some clever ways to solve difficult geometries
12:42:13 <Mic|web> I attented one class on it once 'for fun' (ie not writing the exam;)
12:43:03 <clokep> I'm taking a class on nonlinear systems now, its pretty infuriating. :(
12:47:30 <clokep> Am I missing somethign about bug 513?
12:47:33 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=513 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Auto - Reply
12:47:42 <clokep> s/gn/ng/
12:56:21 <flo> clokep: maybe some background :) (but the bug report is certainly not explicit about what is requested...)
12:56:39 <flo> some protocol do auto-reply with the away message (AIM I think)
12:56:55 <clokep> AIM, Y!, MSN all do I think?
12:57:01 <flo> I don't think MSN does
12:57:12 <clokep> Oh, hmm...I don't use MSN often.
12:57:21 <flo> some IM clients can also do it for you, even when the protocol doesn't
12:57:25 <clokep> GTalk does I believe?
12:57:33 <clokep> Ah, I see. Maybe that's what's asking.
12:57:39 <flo> and in that case, you can have the client customize the message :)
12:57:51 <flo> I would have to have a conversational agent to do my auto-replies
12:58:17 <flo> it would be able to talk more or less like me (it would learn patterns in the ways I speak), and would know some basic information that could be communicated if asked
12:58:32 <flo> *I would love to have
12:58:46 <clokep> That'd be interesting. Know anyone doing research in AI? ;)
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13:08:47 <Mic|web> clokep: dynamic systems and chaos .. yes, I've heard that too :)
13:09:04 <instantbot> raynaudquentin@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 512 to WONTFIX.
13:09:07 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=512 enh, --, ---, nobody, RESO WONTFIX, Pirate English support
13:09:14 <Mic|web> Bifurcations and attractors and stuff are fun
13:10:11 <clokep> Until you try to control them. :P
13:10:38 <Mic|web> I found it interesting that in a model with two species that compete on exactly the same resource .. one is getting to get extinct sooner or later
13:10:44 <Mic|web> -get +become
13:11:48 <Even> What about a single one competing on all resources and taking more that it needs ?
13:11:52 <Even> :P
13:11:52 <clokep> The Predator-Prey model is pretty interesting too.
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13:12:14 <Even> But more basic.
13:12:24 <Even> s/basic/common/
13:12:55 <clokep> True. :)
13:13:21 <clokep> I'm glad we don't have all the annoying people that post on bmo posting on bio. So many bugs I'm CC'd on get "Why isn't this implemented yet...blah blah."
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13:14:27 <Even> Well, it's common for people to want more thant what they have while not doing anything to have it.
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13:15:42 <Mic|web> What about "Please enter the solution to this PDE"-captchas? ;)
13:15:51 <Even> Frenches are the probably the best in the domain though. the only country where people are thinking that earning money by creating a big company is evil while winning a lot of money on chance games is great...
13:15:56 <Even> :P
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13:26:19 <instantbot> raynaudquentin@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 511 to WORKSFORME.
13:26:23 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=511 enh, --, ---, nobody, RESO WORKSFORME, VIEW menu
13:29:44 <Mic|web> bye
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13:41:48 * flo is amazed by how nicely our community replies in bugs even when they seem to be almost a troll :)
13:42:42 <Mic> Replying nicely is what can defeat a troll ;)
13:43:01 <flo> it's even teh best way to do so! :)
13:43:56 <clokep> Time for class. Bbl.
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16:14:16 <clokep> flo: I wrote a regular expression for nick user host, would you be willing to check it over real quick? It works on all my very simple test cases, But I think its OK.
16:14:30 <flo> ok
16:14:48 <flo> I can't guarantee the quality of the review though ;)
16:14:54 <clokep> I think its short enough to just send. :)
16:14:56 <clokep> ([^ !@]+)(?:!([^ @]+))?(?:@([^ ]+))?
16:15:18 <clokep> So matches[1] is nick, [2] is user, [3] is host, 2 & 3 are optional.
16:16:40 <flo> what's the expected input format again? (sorry...)
16:17:23 <clokep> Roughly user!nick@host.
16:17:40 <clokep> Host can be IPv4, IPv6 or a host name with multiple subdomains.
16:17:55 <clokep> You know what a nickname can be. :)
16:18:03 <clokep> Oops. I lied, its nick!user@host, sorry.
16:18:18 <flo> sonds like it matches the regexp better ;)
16:19:21 <flo> yeah, that looks good :)
16:19:49 <clokep> OK, That'll get rid of another 10 lines. :-D
16:20:19 <flo> :)
16:20:33 <flo> counting the productivity in terms of removed lines of code is great :)
16:21:30 <clokep> Well I don't know about producitivity, but it sure /feels/ good!
16:21:39 <flo> hehe :)
16:21:43 <clokep> Is 2.7.x building now? :)
16:21:55 <flo> that's too bad each libpurple upgrade increases its size ;)
16:21:57 <flo> nope
16:22:04 <flo> it goes up to linking
16:22:16 <flo> I think I succeeded in making the gg protocol plugin link
16:22:30 <flo> I still have something to fix in MSN and in util.c
16:23:14 <clokep> Ohhh, good luck. :) That Pidgin source is pretty rough to red.
16:23:20 <clokep> s/red/read/
16:23:23 <flo> msn fixed
16:23:37 <flo> I don't touch the Pidgin (gtk) part! :)
16:23:55 <flo> I hate C code using GTK. Almost one cast per line... uh
16:24:42 <clokep> Well I meant the libpurple code, I'm not sure if its as bad.
16:25:36 <flo> it lacks consistency
16:25:47 <flo> especially between protocol plugins which often have different authors
16:27:23 <clokep> Consistency is always a problem unless you have a pretty strict guidelines. :)
16:27:32 <flo> or common reviewers
16:28:07 <clokep> = you.
16:28:20 <flo> on Mozilla that's the "super-reviewer" group
16:28:38 <flo> who have some experience on the whole code base
16:29:25 <clokep> Right. :)
16:33:57 <clokep> = you? ;)
16:35:11 <clokep> Ah. Class again.
16:36:17 <flo> you think we should add a super-review flag in bugzilla?
16:37:25 <flo> that's probably a bit premature, but in the future I would love to delegate review to the authors (or significant contributors) of the modified code, and review only the changes that have implications across all the project :)
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16:43:04 <clokep> flo: No, I don't. Just saying you're the one who knows the whole project.
16:51:40 <flo> would be better if I wasn't the only one ;)
16:52:03 <flo> it will probably change with time :)
16:55:44 <clokep> As more people add code it'll help.
16:56:39 <flo> or it will become a mess :)
16:56:41 <flo> we will see :)
16:57:06 <flo> libpurple builds. Now purplexpcom doesn't :)
16:59:20 <clokep> Are there any huge gains from the libprpl upgrade anyway? Just bug fixes and suc?
16:59:37 <flo> yeah, more up to date code in general
16:59:48 <flo> it's not safe to stay on code that is no longer supported
17:01:32 <clokep> Of course not, but I just meant no real new feature gains AFAIK?
17:01:39 <clokep> From what I vaguely remember of pidgin update logs.
17:01:51 <flo> I'm not sure I've even looked at the log
17:02:01 <flo> I think the gadu-gadu protocol is in a much less broken version
17:02:46 <clokep> Yes, Gadu-Gadu. :) I have no idea what that even is. Never seen anyone use it...
17:02:58 <flo> It's only used in Poland
17:03:09 <flo> but is a dominant player there ;)
17:03:14 <clokep> Ohhhh, I see. :)
17:03:28 <clokep> I only know a couple people from Poland.
17:03:38 <flo> Instantbird's polish translators? ;)
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17:06:03 <flo> cyclic includes in C code are such a pain :(
17:06:36 <clokep> Haha no. One of my friends has a lot of family in Poland. I know a couple of them.
17:07:24 <flo> ah, that order for the #include seems to work :)
17:08:47 <clokep> Bad when order like that matters. :-\
17:10:04 <clokep> Oh, also. topic bar is working now. I can close that bug as WFM if you want.
17:10:12 <flo> cool :)
17:10:26 <flo> oh, purplexpcom built without problem this time :)
17:10:43 <flo> not sure if it's a good idea to try running it before I go home
17:10:51 <flo> might be depressing if it crashes at startup :)
17:12:10 <flo> starts.
17:12:17 <flo> connects OK to at least google talk and IRC.
17:12:25 <clokep> :)
17:12:36 <flo> AIM ok
17:12:36 <clokep> Check in? ;)
17:13:42 <flo> and MSN!
17:14:07 <flo> I'll check that it builds (or rather, why it won't build) on Windows before ;)
17:14:20 <flo> and as we currently don't have the linux and windows build machine, it's not a great time to push
17:14:30 <flo> and the update is not completely finished
17:14:38 <flo> I should also update the locale files and the default preferences file :)
17:15:00 <flo> but the scariest part is finished :) (except if there are really bad things discovered when testing on Windows)
17:16:01 <flo> ok, going home
17:16:04 <flo> see you all later :)
17:16:13 <clokep> Bye!
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19:01:06 <Mic> Good evening
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19:05:13 <clokep> Hey Mic.
19:05:23 <clokep> I meant to ask you something earlier...and now I forgot again. :)
19:07:17 <Mic> Go back and find out ;)
19:07:44 <clokep> I don't have Mercurial set up for my brain? ;)
19:08:30 <clokep> Oh well. I'm sure I'll remember.
19:08:43 <Mic> Going back in the sense of what were I doing at the time, what else happened ..
19:08:49 <Mic> that what brings back memories
19:10:38 <Mic> I messed up my IB, need to restart
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19:13:21 <clokep> Mic: Oh, got it. :) Just wanted to say I put up your description (+ mine) in the default branch. :)
19:13:32 <Mic> I read it on the log, thanks
19:13:43 <Mic> Have you pushed it as well? ;)
19:14:06 <clokep> Right, but I didn't actually put it up at that point. :) I've actually pushed it now. Wasn't sure if you wanted to re-read it or not.
19:14:11 <Mic> Ah, not it is
19:16:30 <clokep> Sorry, what?
19:16:39 <Mic> +ok
19:16:49 <Mic> "Ah, no. It is ok."
19:16:55 <Mic> Sorry :D
19:17:10 <clokep> That makes more sense! :)
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21:21:14 <flo> there should be a "readme" file in tools/l10n/ :-S
21:21:55 <clokep> I didn't do it.
21:22:19 <flo> that just means I don't remember how that code is supposed to be used ;)
21:22:43 <clokep> Haha. Gotta read your own code and figure it out? :P
21:22:46 <flo> I guess for each update I open the scripts and try to figure out how to use them
21:23:37 <flo> or even better, automate that part... (the update of the en-US translation files of libpurple). I think it could be fully automated.
21:24:18 <clokep> Yeah, would seem it could be.
21:24:43 <flo> the update of the default preferences file cannot be
21:25:03 <flo> but checking that no update is needed at all in this file (it's the case today) can be automated
21:25:19 <flo> so I guess I can automate a way to know if I should bother about it
21:28:11 <clokep>  Automation is always a + :)
21:29:56 <flo> yeah, less things to remember
21:30:31 <flo> I try to not spend too much time automating (usually, not spend more time automating that it would do to do it by hand)
21:30:46 <flo> but I tend to automate a little bit of the process each time :)
21:31:18 <flo> so other time it gets easier and easier to update libpurple :)
21:31:44 <clokep> Ah, that makes sense though. Don't spend a ton of time automating such that you never even have a result.
21:32:17 <flo> s/other/over/
21:32:53 <flo> there's already a huge part of the process that is automated
21:33:20 <flo> detecting which version we currently have, which version is the latest one, downloading the 2 source tarballs
21:33:35 <clokep> Oh, also with bug 509, I kind of just filed that as a place to put all the information I found, not sure how much is really useful.
21:33:38 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=509 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Implement automatic character set decoding
21:33:55 <flo> from that, getting the list of our changes, and trying to apply them to the new code
21:34:15 <flo> clokep: I think it's useful :)
21:35:04 <hicham> flo : the nss patch from archlinux works in here
21:35:13 <flo> cool
21:35:21 <flo> was it the one that also patches code in the mozilla folder?
21:35:35 <hicham> no, I didn't use that hunk
21:36:42 <instantbot> clokep@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 505 to WORKSFORME.
21:36:43 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=505 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO WORKSFORME, Unable to close Topic notification bar
21:36:51 <flo> I don't remember the exact problem. Do we have a bug about it?
21:38:03 <flo> the changes in the translations:  9 files changed, 225 insertions(+), 91 deletions(-)
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21:38:26 <flo> in the en-US files, that is
21:38:29 <clokep> flo: What if one of Instantbird translators changed strings for thosee files?
21:38:31 <clokep> Oh.
21:39:22 <flo> I've never made a tool to merge automatically the updates from libpurple in the files already modified by our translators, so I don't know what to do with the updated imported files for other locales
21:39:45 <flo> Is it useful if we provide them with the updated imported version?
21:39:52 <flo> or a diff between the old and the new imported version?
21:40:02 <flo> or whatever we provide it would be a pain?
21:40:13 <hicham> it is a pain
21:43:02 <clokep> You'd probably need a diff between the original and newer version of the file + a diff between the original version and the current version or something? But I'm not a translator, idk.
21:43:53 <flo> I'm not sure diff is the right command
21:44:03 <flo> what if the translators have reordered the strings inside the file?
21:44:43 <clokep> Yeah, I guess you'd need something more specific then diff.
21:44:57 <flo> I think we would need a custom made tool
21:45:13 <flo> (we already have one to convert the .po files)
21:45:39 <clokep> Is it even an issue do we know?
21:45:55 <flo> what?
21:46:37 <clokep> If the translators have changed any strings imported from libpurple.
21:47:15 <flo> If there was a mistake in the string it's good that they change them :)
21:47:33 <clokep> Oh, I agree! Just wasn't sure if its happened.
21:48:17 <flo> if we wanted more safety, we would write a tool to analyze all the strings in the localized files and check that all the formatters used in printf style functions stay the same
21:49:30 <flo> having a printf call that expects more or less arguments than it actually gets is a perfect recipe for an impossible to debug (on an en-US build) crash.
21:50:04 <flo> well, if we see it's on a printf we can look at the locale that was used by the users who reported the crash
21:51:17 <clokep> Over my head. :)
22:04:07 <Mic> clokep: I was thinking about moving the code to the root directory of the repository as well
22:04:36 <Mic> I'm not sure if it's a good idea though if we'd ever merge the branches again
22:04:42 <clokep> Mic: Yeah, the branch name serves as the "folder" name I think.
22:04:46 <clokep> I don't thinkw e will.
22:04:52 <clokep> I hvae ot go for the weekend. Have a good weekend!
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22:11:00 <flo> ah, as we removed the logger code of libpurple, we get rid of all the logger translations :)
22:18:36 <Mic> flo: have you figured out why the Addons Manager works in your debug builds (and doesn't in the nightlies?)
22:18:43 <flo> no
22:18:54 <Mic> A pity :S
22:18:57 <flo> I'll try on my linux debug build
22:19:02 <Mic> It's extremely annoying
22:19:31 <flo> I'm not sure how we can pressure mozilla to fix it asap
22:22:34 <Mic> Let's request blocking-awesomeness on it ;)
22:23:01 <flo> :)
22:23:45 <Mic> I mean the history workaround sort of works .. it's only annoying to have to apply it each time I update (and I did that rather often recently)
22:24:54 <Mic> Good night
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23:14:30 <flo> Good night :)
23:19:54 <hicham> g'night
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