#instantbird log on 09 10 2010

All times are UTC.

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02:41:02 <clokep> flo: The major issue I see right now with Twitter is just that there's a lot of information that doesn't really fit in with the message styles, there's so much more than just a user time and message.
03:02:48 <clokep> Just received returns from sand.mozilla.org via sockets. :) Which means I'm sort of in business haha.
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08:16:51 <instantbot> New Websites - www.instantbird.com bug 493 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
08:16:53 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=493 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Attempt to improve the appearance of the website home page for old IE version
08:28:21 <flo> Good morning :)
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08:46:05 <instantbot> New Websites - www.instantbird.org bug 494 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
08:46:07 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=494 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, The instantbird.org page could benefit from some tender loving care
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09:26:45 * flo hesitates between "experiments" and "labs" (:-P) for the name of the new repository
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09:32:18 <Mic|web> experiments might be more appropriate while labs just sounds so much cooler ;)
09:32:30 <flo> I've used experiments
09:32:51 <hicham> lab would adhere to mozilla naming styles
09:33:04 <Mic|web> Labs would sound pretty professional and official
09:34:02 <Mic|web> flo: thanks :)
09:34:29 <flo> so you prefer labs ?
09:34:55 <hicham> so that mozilla would be happy
09:35:01 <Mic|web> No, while it sounds cooler, it might be hard to live up to the name
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09:42:19 <flo> ok, I think it's ready. https://hg.instantbird.org/experiments/
09:42:47 <Mic|web> Ah, this description is much better
09:42:57 <Mic|web> You renamed the Canvas repository for it?
09:44:22 <flo> I copied some of the files
09:44:44 <flo> and as I don't want to see the canvas repository anymore, I added it in the IndexIgnore directive of the .htaccess file :-P
09:46:03 <flo> the godaddy website is so confusing :(
09:49:34 <Mic|web> All links on /experiments/ lead to /canvas/ directories/pages
09:50:13 <flo> fixed, thanks! :)
10:02:33 * Mic|web thinks Wikipedia is limiting itself by trying to be an 'excyclopedia only'
10:03:08 <Mic|web> *'ency...'
10:03:21 * flo got his number of starred emails under 100 yesterday (that means there are now 99)
10:03:32 <flo> I'm trying to get the number of drafts under 50 today :)
10:05:33 <flo> so many things that 2 years later have lost all their interest...
10:06:38 <Mic|web> Thanks by the way, I just reveiced your email
10:06:47 <flo> np
10:07:11 <flo> clokep has received almost (;)) the same
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10:10:18 <flo> oh, a draft dated from Friday, septembre 21, 2007. Talking about the buddy list.
10:10:26 <flo> that was about a month before the 0.1 release :)
10:11:49 <Mic|web> So it's not about answering mails but tiding up your mail box? ;)
10:11:59 <flo> starred mails need answers
10:12:15 <flo> drafts are "work in progress"
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10:12:40 <flo> very often the ones that never got send are the ones that were targeted to me
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10:13:20 <Mic|web> I keep emails to myself as reminder for something sometimes .. 
10:13:34 <flo> yes, I'm tiding up the inbox. I would like to reduce the likelyhood of an email sent to contact@ib.org that doesn't receive a reply because it's lost in the mess
10:13:36 <Mic|web> I guess it's a workaround for 'not having pen and paper with me)
10:13:56 <flo> Mic|web: it's also for "not wanting to remember where that stupid paper is"
10:14:24 <Mic|web> paper as in scientific article?
10:14:38 <flo> no :)
10:14:46 <flo> the pen and paper :)
10:14:52 <Mic|web> :D
10:15:03 <flo> if you need another paper to write where you put the first one, it's not really a good way to store the info ;)
10:15:34 <hicham> paper last more
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10:16:23 <Mic|web> Why? You can have dozens of lines on a paper and you can have dozens of references to papers with dozens of lines .. ;)
10:16:54 <Mic|web> I guess you'll never need more than 3 or 4 levels of papers then ;)
10:17:19 <flo> what about needing the paper in several places?
10:17:42 <flo> I like reducing the amount of crap I carry with me everyday :)
10:17:44 <hicham> you can mirror it
10:18:41 <Mic|web> Worse: needing only parts of several papers
10:19:06 <flo> by the way, when I need something that is on paper and doesn't know where I'll need it, I take a photo with my phone :-P
10:19:56 <Mic|web> Believe it or not, but my phone has no camera
10:20:56 <Mic|web> But I'm frequently recording voice messages for myself if I can't write emails as reminder
10:21:25 <Mic|web> (doesn't help for your problem though)
10:22:44 <hicham> you have an old phone like mine then
10:23:04 <flo> before buying that android smartphone, I had a 7 years old phone
10:23:35 <hicham> oh
10:24:39 <Mic|web> It has bluetooth so .. and if I had time I'd really like to try forwarding IM messages while being near my computer, but not exactly at it
10:25:22 <Mic|web> well, lunch time now.
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10:38:02 <tymerkaev> hello
10:41:37 <flo> 49 drafts remaining!
10:41:42 <flo> lunch time! :)
10:42:56 <tymerkaev> drafts of what?
10:43:50 <flo> I'm cleaning up my email box ;)
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10:51:48 <hicham> flo : do you know where the flags used to build libxul.so are stored ?
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11:55:54 <flo> hicham: they are probably in several places
11:56:35 <flo> I would look in autoconf.mk, config.mk and rules.mk
11:56:46 <flo> if you know which flag you want to change, look for it using lxr/mxr
11:57:11 <hicham> flo : I wanted to make sure that libxul.so is built with -fPIC
11:57:24 <hicham> turns out that vpx is causing it
11:57:53 <hicham> libxul is compiled against a static libvpx
11:58:54 <hicham> I maybe wrong, but this is maybe the reason why the hello world xul app doesn't work with xulrunner-2
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12:43:50 <Mic|web> hello Amfi, clokep
12:44:08 <Amfi> Good afternoon
12:44:27 <clokep> Good morning Mic|web!
12:45:02 <flo> Amfi: hey :)
12:45:18 <clokep> Mic|web You mean something like this http://code.google.com/p/purple-gammu/ or perhaps http://code.google.com/p/pidgin-bt/ for your phone? ;)
12:45:18 <Amfi> :)
12:45:47 <Amfi> Mic|web: why to use another account? Testing a new addon?
12:46:08 <flo> Amfi: connected from 2 locations? :)
12:46:44 <Amfi> Oh, thanks. 
12:49:29 <clokep> flo: You got marked as spam. :(
12:49:39 <flo> maybe I'm a spammer :)
12:49:52 <clokep> But thanks.
12:50:30 <clokep> Lots of stuff in the repository. :P
12:50:55 <flo> yeah, it will take you a while to clone it
12:51:04 <clokep> Oh! I successfully connected to irc.mozilla.org with sockets last night...and then got a ping timeout cause I didn't do anything. :) But I received the first few messages from it.
12:52:05 <clokep> Now my only comment is that...the RFC specs are awfully dry.
12:56:37 <flo> clokep: congrats! :)
12:57:06 <clokep> Yes, step 2 now is to spend some time in telnet learning the protocol.
12:59:03 <flo> you can also spy an existing client using wireshark
12:59:57 <clokep> Ah, I didn't think of that, but I meant to ask you if I can log libpurple somehow? But wireshark might be a better solution.
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13:16:48 <flo> I think I've just done my first push on the repository of our add-ons website
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13:20:56 <clokep> Does that mean I need to readd my search plug in for it? :P
13:22:40 <flo> did it work?
13:22:47 <clokep> flo: Yup! Icon and all.
13:37:02 <Mic|web> bbl
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13:47:51 <clokep> Bye.
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16:04:39 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/f5f5d47fc846 - Florian Quèze - Use a package manifest on all OSes.
16:04:40 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/71343d64da5f - Florian Quèze - Disable PGO in Windows mozconfig to workaround bug 590996.
16:04:41 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/a3858c8a849f - Florian Quèze - Merge the mozilla2 branch.
16:04:42 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/6e8dc6cb8b30 - Florian Quèze - Fix 7z stub to say Instantbird instead of Thunderbird.
16:05:07 <clokep1> flo: Can WireShark be run as just an exe? Or do I need to install it?
16:05:33 <flo> RTFM? :)
16:05:43 <flo> I've only used it on linux with sudo apt-get install
16:05:49 <flo> so I can't help you, sorry
16:06:37 <clokep1> Does that mean you got it working on Win?
16:06:42 <clokep1> Its OK, thanks though.
16:06:48 * clokep1 is now known as clokep
16:06:52 <flo> yeah :)
16:06:58 <clokep> Awesome! :)
16:07:38 <hicham> with xulrunner2, chrome.manifest should be always on the top directory
16:08:04 <clokep> hicham: You can also "include" other manifests in the top level one if you want.
16:09:06 <hicham> clokep: yes, but there should one on top, unlike xulrunner1
16:09:21 <hicham> in fact, *MUST*
16:09:55 <clokep> flo: Random issue I had when playing with making an protocol/account in JS...you don't seem to have access to the server / port? At least not in http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/purplexpcom/public/purpleIAccount.idl ? Or do I need to load it from the preference?
16:10:15 <clokep> hicham: Right! Thought you were saying you couldn't have ones in child folders. :)
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16:16:06 <flo> clokep: you mean there are setters but no getters?
16:16:55 <clokep> flo: I mean it doesn't seem to refer to the server or port /at all/ in there. 
16:16:58 <flo> hicham: do you have some special interest in having that chrome.manifest file?
16:17:14 <flo> clokep: that's a technical detail.
16:17:27 <flo> who cares about them if the plugin can "just work"? :)
16:17:44 <clokep> flo: But how do I access them in JS then? :)
16:17:46 <hicham> flo : i just realized that when trying to fix chatzilla to run on top of xulrunner2
16:17:54 <clokep> I.e. for my /own/ protocol.
16:18:11 <flo> I would say, for now, put it in a hard coded constant :)
16:18:22 <flo> that suspect you do that for the server too, don't you? :)
16:19:06 <clokep> Haha, that's what I have right now. But IRC isn't very useful if you need to edit files each time. ;)
16:19:46 <clokep> Also, I was thinking of putting my IRC stuff up in the experiments repo once its in a slightly more workable form, that be OK?
16:21:20 <flo> yeah :)
16:21:26 <flo> it's an experiment, right? :)
16:21:39 <clokep> Yes! Just wasn't sure if I should keep it to myself. ;)
16:21:53 <hicham> you shouldn't
16:22:02 <hicham> everything is welcome to share
16:22:18 <clokep> But then you'll all see my terrible terrible coding style. :P
16:22:19 <flo> if you want to have your plugin really nice to use, there should be some servers preconfigured
16:22:59 <clokep> For the moment its going to be irc.mozilla.org...since that's what I use. :-D
16:24:59 <hicham> clokep: it can't be worse that MS leaked code
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16:30:13 <flo> ok, next try :)
16:34:36 <clokep> Next try of what? ;)
16:34:42 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/2eead00fbd7a - Florian Quèze - Update no-debug-symbols.patch
16:36:08 <clokep> Oh.
16:36:21 <clokep> Ah, I need to go. Computer Vision is about to start. ;)
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17:02:16 <deOmega> :)... question...  Is there a reason why the headers in conversations are somewhat messed up?
17:03:19 <deOmega> I  realize that there are many themes with header options... but if  one uses the header.. the first line of the conversation  comes up under it and is not possible to be seen
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17:04:59 <deOmega> I am back to using IB .2.  Decided to do a fresh install since i  had been messing with stuff  so much
17:05:24 <hicham> oh
17:05:30 <deOmega> ... and i am unable to remember what i did from one point to the next :)
17:05:35 <hicham> you can just remove your profile
17:06:37 <deOmega> Even if I was gonna revert from .3?
17:07:26 <flo> deOmega: I've never figured out why the first message often appears under the header.
17:07:42 <flo> that's the reason why I decided to not enable the header by default.
17:09:37 <deOmega> ah.  I have actually been trying to mess with them to figure  out if i can fix it, but  of  course I not only   had no  success but lost my way
17:10:29 <deOmega> is it  possible to set some kind of thing in the message window... for when  header is enabled.. there is an automatic space created at the top of teh message window?
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17:11:41 <flo> deOmega: I don't think we should add workaround in our code to fix the broken themes.
17:12:15 <flo> and I think the header should be part of the UI, not of the content of the conversation, so I don't care too much about that feature :)
17:12:20 <deOmega> ohh, I did not know if it was that the themes are broken or if  the system does not compensate for headers
17:12:35 <deOmega> I do not knowof any theme where teh header works  properly
17:12:57 <deOmega> THAT i agree with
17:13:32 <deOmega> that it should be an 'optional' part of the UI
17:14:44 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/b183f2d996a0 - Florian Quèze - Fix path to universal mozconfig (Mac).
17:14:45 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/9e5bb6e2486b - Florian Quèze - Changeset 219859fc6e21 from comm-central: Port flight.mk part of bug 556644 to fix mac build bustage.
17:14:46 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/adfd9aa4e68b - Florian Quèze - Disable webm on Windows (attempt to fix the build bustage).
17:16:05 <deOmega> You know... for many of the things i  ask about, it  may not  necessarily be something that I care about either... just usually things that  I  would  assume ought to be or working, and I would try to figure out why not at times
17:16:16 <deOmega> If i cannot figure out I would ask
17:16:58 <deOmega> does not take me long to figure out when i do not know :)
17:18:41 <flo> deOmega: I understand that.
17:19:08 <flo> we appreciate having people testing the rough area of the application and reporting issues ;)
17:19:10 <flo> *areas
17:20:53 <deOmega> If we are not expecting to use 'showheader' per se.... maybe remove it  from the options so that  it is not a poster of a 'problem'?
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17:22:45 <flo> deOmega: some themes may do something useful with it.
17:22:48 <flo> I hope so at least :)
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17:24:24 <flo> going home. Have a nice week-end :)
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17:24:42 <deOmega> I have to say it has been so long since i have used an official release... I think I forgot IB had a globe icon.... I could not find the icon at first.
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20:12:18 <Mic> Let's see .. going to commit and push the Sync source soon
20:12:40 <Mic> Hopefully I won't mess up :D
20:12:57 <clokep> Not a big deal if you do. :)
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20:30:50 <Mic> ok ..
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20:32:41 <clokep> Good its in a subfolder. :)
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20:33:37 <Mic> I moved it there, hoping that it won't break in the process
20:34:31 <Mic> I also copied the files from the repository instead of uploading a clone, since we're most likely not interested in having their older changesets there
20:34:33 <clokep> Hmm....CMD doesn't like me dumping 65536 characters to the command line, who would've thought?
20:34:44 <clokep> That sounds fine.
20:34:52 <clokep> Lots of stuff going on there.
20:36:19 <Mic> I'm back in an hour or two
20:36:42 <Mic> Will start cleaning the code then
20:36:56 <Mic> and adapting to Instantbird
20:37:12 <clokep> OK. :) I'm doing some stuff for class right now, then probably gonna sniff IRC.
20:40:28 <flo> clokep: this morning I wanted to ask you which twitter info doesn't fit in the message style, but then I forgot..
20:40:48 <clokep> flo: One second. :) I'll get you a link.
20:41:36 <clokep> flo: http://dev.twitter.com/doc/get/statuses/home_timeline
20:41:49 <clokep> Look at any of the responses (I like JSON personally and its easy in Mozilla).
20:42:12 <clokep> The amount of raw ddata we're given is just way beyond that normally displayed by IM.
20:42:47 <clokep> Some of it is user data so maybe we don't really need it, but still. You don't wanna have some junky implementation.
20:43:25 <flo> I don't think we need to display all that
20:43:37 <clokep> OK.
20:43:58 <clokep> Also should I upload my twitter stuff to the experiments? Its like really unfinished and I haven't even attempted to make it a protocol yet.
20:44:20 <flo> maybe we should add a "detailed tooltip" above each message? :-D
20:44:57 <flo> upload whatever code you want as long as you own the copyright or it's free-licensed.
20:45:05 <flo> don't upload gigabytes of binary content :)
20:45:11 <clokep> Ideally we'd have one for the message and one for the user (or any other user mentioned in the tweet), not sure if that's possible.
20:45:33 <clokep> Yeah anything I have is either MIT or Tri-licensed by me or based off your code. ;)
20:45:39 <clokep> I think...
20:46:15 <flo> :)
20:57:49 <clokep> Well this homework got pretty boring so I think I'll work on IRC. :)
20:59:09 <flo> ahah :)
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20:59:45 <flo> the results of my pushes of today are depressing :-/
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21:00:09 <flo> not a single build that compiles...
21:00:10 <clokep> They don't work or...?
21:00:13 <clokep> Oh. :(
21:00:22 <clokep> At least the same errors on each?
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21:04:56 <clokep> I needed something to capture with wireshark. :)
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21:08:03 <clokep> And it works wayyyyy better when you don't use SSL. :)
21:08:56 <flo> clokep: no. Different error on each.
21:09:02 <flo> after 3 bustage fix.
21:13:07 <clokep> :-\ Sorry to hear that.
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21:14:14 <clokep> Well, that really wasn't too bad...
21:14:29 <clokep> I just nneed to be fast when it pings me and respond with the pong. :-D
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21:16:06 <clokep_dev> And let me send a test message too! :)
21:16:12 <-- clokep_dev has left #instantbird ()
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21:35:17 <clokep> My goal tonight flo is to have IRC to auto responds to pings and then just displays everything else, so you'll have to type commands in.
21:36:17 <flo> :)
21:37:19 <clokep> So pretty much "telnet in Instantbird" ;)
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21:49:41 <clokep> flo: Quick question about making protocols before you go.
21:50:19 <flo> I'm still here
21:50:35 <clokep> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/purplexpcom/public/purpleIAccount.idl#282 refers to calling this for every step. Is there any limit or anything?
21:50:46 <clokep> the "base.connecting()" used in Omegle.
21:52:00 <flo> clokep: it updates the message in the account manager
21:52:10 <flo> so don't put 100 messages per second there :)
21:54:28 <clokep> OK! I thought at first that it needed to be done a certain number of times.
21:54:37 <clokep> But I guess after you're done you can put "connected" :)
21:54:48 <flo> there's another method for that
21:54:54 <clokep> Yes, exactly.
21:55:04 <clokep> I see it now. :) Thanks.
21:55:09 <flo> maybe this should be documented a bit more
21:57:07 <flo> we could for example recommend updating the connection state each time an action that could timeout (could be long) is started. Each new socket connection for example.
21:58:08 <deOmega> I am trying to figure if this is worth mentioning a s a bug or should be just general information  .. fwiw:
21:59:51 <deOmega> if c someone else is using the simple theme, and their cunterpart is using.. say the satin theme (message styles)... the person using simple will see the message from the other person somewhat broken
22:00:08 <deOmega> *counterpart lol
22:00:47 <deOmega> see it  broken,  if the person using  satin  is sending their format
22:00:56 <deOmega> AH, i am tired
22:01:04 <clokep> deOmega: Do Message themes affect outgoing messages?
22:01:15 <flo> clokep: no
22:01:48 <deOmega> ah,  yes.. message themes in this case did it seems
22:01:59 <deOmega> i did not think it mattered
22:03:08 <deOmega> I think i  have to sign off.. too tired
22:03:16 <deOmega> catch you guys later.. hope i remembe rto reassess
22:03:36 <-- deOmega has left #instantbird ()
22:12:50 <clokep> flo: Made the account protocol, but when I try to make an instance of it, its getting stuck on the "Finish" button, any ideas? :-\
22:12:57 <clokep> (No error in the console.)
22:16:27 <flo> maybe add a try { ... } catch(e) {alert(e);} ?
22:16:37 <clokep> Around what? :)
22:18:08 <flo> the code that should return
22:21:40 <clokep> Ah, apparently I never implemented "getAccount" oops.
22:24:01 <clokep> Although Omegle doesn't do that either...
22:24:59 <flo> I'm not sure it still works.
22:25:07 <flo> (Omegle)
22:25:11 <flo> I haven't tried it in a while
22:25:14 <clokep> :) I'll keep that in mind.
22:25:21 <clokep> I have some other ones I can look at that I know work.
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22:34:46 <clokep> flo: I found the line that needs to be change din Omegle.
22:35:41 <clokep> Replace lines 203 - 204 with "getAccount: function(aKey, aName) new Account(this, aKey, aName),"
22:35:41 <clokep> :)
22:45:51 <Mic> too late, too tired
22:45:53 <Mic> good night
22:46:02 <clokep> Goodnight Mic.
22:46:49 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a1pre)
23:01:12 <flo> good night