#instantbird log on 09 02 2010

All times are UTC.

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00:19:01 <flo> "Tell Mozilla about this crash so they can fix it" could need some fixing too
00:19:16 <clokep> :)
00:27:43 <flo> ok, I fixed the expected bug
00:27:55 <flo> I guess I should commit all I have, and figure out the remaining issues tomorrow
00:28:32 <flo> (the packaged build crashes at startup, the unpackaged build works fine, I guess an important file is missing...)
00:28:51 <flo> (crashing is not a very descriptive error message though! :-P)
00:29:02 <clokep> Crashing isn't important.
00:29:08 <clokep> As long as it works unpackaged. ;)
00:30:14 <flo> packaged also means with the omnijar ;)
00:30:46 <clokep> True. :(
00:31:28 <flo> if only that wasn't on windows, it would be so easy to debug :-D
00:42:32 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/95b1734e324b - Florian Quèze - Port patches from bug 367539, 566125, 570689 and 586849.
00:42:33 <instantbot> Check-in: http://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/rev/8d47aa872981 - Florian Quèze - Fix glib compilation on Windows.
00:47:29 <flo> good night
00:48:20 <clokep> 'night!
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09:04:24 <Mic> hi
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10:18:59 * flo has started his default instantbird profile on his debug build based on Mozilla 2
10:21:45 <Mic|web> Nice, on  which system?
10:21:50 <flo> Mac
10:24:20 <Mic|web> clokep: check out http://svn.mozilla.org/projects/webrunner/trunk/components/src/windows/nsDesktopEnvironmentWin.cpp, there's a method called "GetHWNDForDOMWindow" which sounds promising
10:24:39 <Mic|web> flo: thanks for helping :)
10:24:56 <flo> no problem ;)
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10:28:34 <flo> oooh, it's scriptable!
10:28:45 <flo> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/widget/public/nsIBaseWindow.idl#186
10:39:12 <Mic|web> bye
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13:51:46 <clokep> Mic: Can we access GetHWNDForDOMWindow from JS at all though?
13:55:49 <flo> clokep: I think you can reimplement it in JS
13:56:44 <clokep> flo: I don't think that baseWindow.GetParentNativeWindow is available in JS.
13:56:54 <flo> it is
13:57:03 <flo> there's no [noscript] before it in the idl declaration
13:57:37 <flo> it's the link I gave before: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/widget/public/nsIBaseWindow.idl#186
13:57:45 <clokep> Hmmm...OK. Yes, I have that open.
13:58:07 <clokep> I was trying to do something and it was telling me it didn't exist, maybe it wasn't parentNativeWindow though...
13:59:20 <clokep> Anyone know what all this talk about iTunes 10's "vertical widgets" is?
14:00:37 <clokep> Oh wait. I see, couldn't find a good screenshot. :) Is that only on Mac?
14:03:17 <clokep> And flo, that's awesome that Moz2 is running smoothly!
14:14:32 <flo> still crashing on windows ;)
14:14:39 <flo> I have an idea of a potential cause though! :)
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15:14:41 <deOmega> flo: hi
15:14:50 <flo> deOmega: hey :)
15:15:02 <deOmega> remember i was complaining about the scroll issue?
15:15:15 <deOmega> tell me if i need tor efresh
15:15:21 <flo> not really complaining
15:15:46 <deOmega> ok. 
15:16:13 <deOmega> I can now say that since i know how it works or why it does that... it  seems fantastic to me
15:16:28 <deOmega> the problem  was withit being 'different' or unusual
15:17:13 <deOmega> but i  think it is such a nice feature (Now lol) that it should  be introduced to new users as opposed to showing  up as an oddity
15:17:26 <deOmega> Maybe call it flood focus :)
15:17:47 <flo> ahah
15:17:53 <flo> "it's not a bug, it's a feature" :)
15:18:07 <deOmega> Yup :)
15:19:11 <flo> you basically reacted like I did about it
15:19:21 <flo> when I first saw it I thought "uh, that looks strange"
15:19:58 <deOmega> With understanding of it,  i have learned to appreciate it tremendously.... i now know, if  my window is showing   'scrolled up'... it is not  a glitch, but that someone flooded me and Ib is allowing me to read from the beginning.. insteadiing of me scrolling up manually searching for the beginning
15:20:01 <flo> then when using the application without being surprised by it "uh, this is actually useful"
15:20:39 <flo> deOmega: if the person has sent several messages, it will still show only the beginning of the last message ;).
15:21:17 <deOmega> So it  can be enhanced :).. teh bug can be enhanced lol
15:22:23 <flo> yeah, it could show the beginning of the first unread message
15:22:53 <deOmega> Anyway, just wanted to say,  I  have come to appreciate it as you say, with the surprise out of the way.
15:23:36 <deOmega> news flash: instantbird provides flood focus!
15:24:27 <flo> deOmega: we should hide you to make some buzz on twitter ;)
15:24:30 <flo> *hire
15:24:46 <deOmega> ]:-> 
15:25:02 <deOmega> :)
15:25:20 <flo> too bad we have no money to hire people ;)
15:26:14 <deOmega> haha, no i would pay myself towork for you.   smart, huh?
15:26:41 <flo> and you would pay taxes for that? :-D
15:27:14 <deOmega> amazing Cesar circle
15:42:12 <deOmega> I wonder how clokep's system tray thingamabob is going?
15:42:22 <clokep> deOmega: I haven't worked on it.
15:42:32 <deOmega> ok
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16:01:23 <Mic> Hello
16:01:31 <clokep> deOmega: I'm back at school now. So I have a lot of distractions and all. I'll probably get around to working on stuff again in about a week, when my schedule finalizes.
16:01:32 <clokep> Hello Mic.
16:02:27 <deOmega> clokep: ok.  I wish you godo luck.
16:06:02 <clokep> Thanks.
16:13:23 <clokep> Speaking of which, I need to go to Nonlinear Control Systems. ;)
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17:01:57 <Mic> Is there a reason why the error console has shortcut ctrl+shift+j (beside Firefox having it as well?)
17:02:34 <Mic> Since this would be a good shortcut for opening the "join chat"-dialog
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17:16:56 <Mic> flo: do you have a minute, I'd like to discuss something about bug 296, bug 418 and bug 441 and a bit of stuff around it
17:16:59 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=296 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Account manager shortcut
17:17:00 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=418 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Keyboard shortcut to open "Join chat" dialog from conversation windows
17:17:01 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=441 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, minimize with ESC key
17:32:34 <Mic> well, here are the question: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/369
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17:34:16 <Mic> I'm asking because I'd prefer to do it in one piece (a general "adjusting command keys" patch)
17:57:11 <instantbot> leeraccount@yahoo.de added attachment 349 to bug 408.
17:57:12 <instantbot> leeraccount@yahoo.de requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 349 on bug 408.
17:57:13 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=408 tri, --, ---, leeraccount, ASSI, JS strict warning in the account manager when removing the last account
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18:32:10 <flo> "Is there a reason why the error console has shortcut ctrl+shift+j (beside Firefox having it as well?)" That's the reason.
18:32:29 <instantbot> leeraccount@yahoo.de added attachment 350 to bug 462.
18:32:30 <instantbot> leeraccount@yahoo.de requested review from florian@instantbird .org for attachment 350 on bug 462.
18:32:39 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=462 nor, --, ---, leeraccount, NEW, Accesskeys on preferences window
18:35:13 <flo> escape key to minimize a conversation window seems ok.
18:35:47 <flo> if there's no other use for the key, and as minimizing doesn't cause any dataloss, I don't see the need to switch off this behavior
18:36:14 <flo> I don't think there's a way to register globally a shortcut for all windows
18:36:49 <flo> however, on mac where the menu bar needs to be on all windows, we #include some common code, so some things are already global on mac because of this
18:37:34 <Mic> Will that hurt somehow?
18:37:56 <flo> that = ?
18:38:33 <Mic> "some things are already global" + adding them to another window = two times the same shortcut for the same thing ..
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18:39:01 <flo> I don't know. I guess it would be better if we could avoid it
18:39:48 <flo> or even better if we could take advantage of it: removing the #ifdef around the #include, and put the #ifdef inside the included file, so that global shortcut are only in one file of the source code
18:43:30 <flo> I'm not a fan of command+shift+C for "Join Chat" but I've no better idea, so I guess I'll accept it if you create a patch for it.
18:44:14 <flo> and for the cleanup, I guess "ok if you don't break the menu on mac"
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18:45:22 <Mic> let's see ;)
18:45:54 <Mic> oh, about including:
18:46:43 <flo> some of the weird ids are imposed by the crappy system used to build the application menu on mac
18:46:46 <Mic> scratch that .. I think I understand now what went wrong :D
18:47:21 <Mic> ok, I'll have a look and in doubt I'll leave the cleanup part away
18:47:45 <flo> see https://developer.mozilla.org/en/XUL/PopupGuide/PlatformMenus for the explanations
18:49:08 <flo> the related code is at http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/widget/src/cocoa/nsMenuBarX.mm#461
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18:51:40 <Mic> I was referring to ids of items in the command- and keyset, not menuitems btw
18:54:26 <Mic> Inconsistencies like here: https://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/file/95b1734e324b/instantbird/content/menus.xul.inc#l44 
18:54:31 <Mic> Line 44ff
18:55:08 <Mic> Or does that follow a pattern I just don't recognize?
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19:30:09 <clokep> Why not "Ctrl + J" for Join Chat? Why the Ctrl + Shift requirement?
19:36:26 <clokep> Good article about why Twitter's OAuth sucks: http://arstechnica.com/security/guides/2010/09/twitter-a-case-study-on-how-to-do-oauth-wrong.ars
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20:26:40 * Mic will upload "Always On Top" later :)
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20:37:49 <flo> you can fix that id, it's just inconsistent :)
20:55:46 <flo> clokep: I'm not sure I understand what the author of the article wants
20:56:19 <clokep> flo: I think he's just saying its silly and sucks without offering much in terms of a solution, except perhaps suggesting following the Google or Facebook way.
20:56:40 <flo> I don't see how they are better though
20:57:19 <flo> instead of saying they should change the system, I guess it would be simpler for them to retract the threat of invalidating keys that become public
21:03:58 <clokep> Probably. Its a mess however you look at it. :-\
21:04:51 <flo> have they ever invalidated a key because of some abuse?
21:05:00 <flo> what should we do?
21:05:31 <flo> what about having an automatic fallback to HTTP requests pretending to be the website, with some reverse engineering
21:05:47 <flo> That's very likely against the terms of use, but anyway, who cares?
21:06:39 <flo> we can code it and keep it hidden and release it as a "stability" update if the official Instantbird OAuth key ever gets invalidated
21:07:19 <flo> (or just put another key in the update, if we can get another quickly)
21:07:59 <clokep> flo: Maybe. I'm trying to get the OAuth way to work using our own key and just "not care" if they get rid of it (we don't have to wait for an app marketplace to issue updates).
21:08:14 <clokep> I'm having some issues with the oauth extension I'm using though, and haven't looked at it.
21:08:24 <clokep> I need to find mixedpuppy at some point I think he wrote it?
21:08:43 <flo> I don't know him
21:09:24 <flo> we have an email on the contact mailing list of someone offering to work on the German translation.
21:09:53 <clokep> flo: Is that related? Hah.
21:10:01 <flo> I haven't heard from our current German translators (who has far as I know as never started) for a long while.
21:10:14 <flo> It's very tempting to just "change the official translator"
21:10:35 <flo> I guess I should contact the previous one first. Not sure how long I should wait for a reply
21:11:07 <Mic> I don't like all these APIs that want a key for the most basic operations
21:11:42 <flo> Mic: I don't like them either. That seems so pointless.
21:11:43 <Mic> for things that you could extract from their galleries or websites
21:12:18 <flo> My first reaction was "who needs an API with a stupid key system when their website is accessible over HTTP and contains all the informations?"
21:12:31 <flo> it was trivial to reverse engineer Omegle
21:12:35 <flo> Twitter is probably trivial too
21:12:49 <Mic> Some of them offer a way to upload new images and stuff like that
21:12:54 <flo> Facebook may be full of junk however
21:13:03 <Mic> but it seems they failed to create a public and a private part of the API
21:13:37 <flo> they don't want any automated system to query anything without being authenticated
21:13:52 <flo> I guess from their point of view that makes some sense.
21:14:29 <clokep> The Twitter API is /really/ nice...just the auth is a pain.
21:21:06 <flo> so you are going to try to make a twitter plugin before I get to it? ;)
21:21:28 <clokep> flo: We also might be able to use http://dev.twitter.com/anywhere/begin but that's really meant for web pages.
21:21:40 <clokep> Haha, possibly. I did a little work on it, but if you definitely want to do it then feel free.
21:22:03 <flo> we can collaborate. We can review each other's code :).
21:22:44 <flo> I would like to make a really trivially easy to use an highly reusable API for HTTP requests, cookies, and whatever is going to be needed in all protocols that use HTTP
21:23:16 <flo> have you read the code of the Omegle plugin?
21:23:22 <clokep> Yes.
21:23:28 <flo> I tried to make it easily readable, but I guess it can still be improved a lot
21:23:34 <clokep> I also read the javascript protocol prototype stuff.
21:23:56 <flo> the jsProtoHelper module? That code is probably hard to read
21:24:02 <clokep> (I actually implemented a loopback protocol for an extension, it just doesn't do much.)
21:24:07 <clokep> flo: Yes, that one. :)
21:24:29 <flo> did you understand it?
21:25:03 <flo> by the way, I'll cleanup the setBaseURI mess soon, it's not longer needed on Mozilla2 :)
21:25:48 <clokep> I mostly understood it I believe.
21:25:58 <flo> :)
21:26:25 <clokep> A lot of it is just forwarding properties from the purple library as far as I could tell.
21:26:44 <clokep> But you want to make "doXHRequest" into a better thing I think?
21:27:23 <flo> I want to make it so that the protocol specific code is as easy to read and debug as possible
21:28:41 <clokep> One thing I had some trouble with is what's considered part of the protocol vs. part of the account.
21:28:57 <clokep> I was actually trying to think if there was some other "easy" protocol to implement real quick.
21:29:02 <clokep> To teach myself that code better.
21:29:27 <flo> IRC is probably relatively easy
21:30:04 <flo> the general idea is that everything is implemented in jsProtoHelper, and you need to reimplement in the protocol component only what needs to be different.
21:30:14 <flo> So only the protocol specific logic should remain the the protocol plugin
21:30:40 <clokep> Hm...OK.
21:31:35 <clokep> Ah, right. Part of the problem with the oauth extension I'm using is that it requires some of FUEL (which is also required by the new add-on window?)
21:31:53 <flo> I've written jsProtoHelper while I was writing and debugging the Omegle plugin, so it's almost guaranteed that most things that should be shared by weren't needed for Omegle are not implemented yet ;)
21:32:10 <flo> I think this requirement will be dropped for the add-on window
21:32:31 <clokep> Ah, OK. I'm just gonna hack around it right now.
21:32:34 <flo> (which doesn't mean we shouldn't include a part of FUEL in Instantbird)
21:32:53 <clokep> (I filed a bug on it. As I'm sure you know. ;))
21:33:03 <flo> yeah, I know
21:33:05 <clokep> It acutally could be very nice to be able to do lik eApplications.accounts and stuff.
21:33:10 <flo> I'll need to review all the "recent" bugs soon
21:33:21 <clokep> Or Application.buddies, etc.
21:33:28 <flo> to see if I there are some where I've forgotten to comment while I was mostly offline
21:33:52 <flo> I'm not sure if fuel is still really supported in Firefox
21:34:03 <flo> or if it's just legacy code that nobody dares to kill
21:34:16 <flo> Services.jsm looks very promising too
21:34:56 <clokep> I'm not sure I've seen that one?
21:35:13 <flo> it's a JS module that defines getter for all the commonly used XPCOM services
21:35:17 <clokep> Unfortunately FUEL was introduced for 3.0 or 3.5 and then killed when Jetpacks came out it seems. But I don't know if it was "officially" killed or not.
21:35:24 <clokep> Oh, that'd be convenient. :)
21:36:03 <flo> FUEL required writing a wrapper around existing interfaces to simplify them. It was interesting especially for old frozen interfaces that couldn't be improved
21:36:13 <flo> (but interfaces are no longer frozen in the Mozilla2 world...)
21:36:24 <flo> Jetpack needs wrapper too I think
21:36:48 <clokep> It helps if I include the extension i'm working on in the profile I'm using. :)
21:36:57 <flo> the approach in Services.jsm is easily to implement, as it's just a set of getters for existing XPCOM APIs
21:37:16 <flo> *easier
21:37:19 <flo> (grr)
21:37:50 <clokep> Is it part of Moz2 or a Labs module or what?
21:38:15 <flo> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/toolkit/content/Services.jsm
21:39:33 <clokep> Hmm...I see.
21:44:19 <clokep> flo: Yea I'm getting some weird error saying I'm giving like the wrong parameters. :(
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21:51:31 <clokep> flo: I get update.instantbird.org : server does not support RFC 5746, see CVE-2009-3555 whenever I check for updates.
21:51:50 <clokep> (I think its when I check for updates?)
21:52:18 <clokep> And the same thing for addons.
21:52:29 <flo> it's the same server :)
21:52:58 <DGMurdockIII> http://www.consumertipsdigest.org/penny_auctions/vcpu/
21:53:04 <DGMurdockIII> fuck that site
21:54:44 <clokep> flo: Is that a known thing or something you don't care about or...? :)
21:56:04 <flo> something I don't want to have to care about.
21:56:08 <flo> do you get the difference? ;)
21:56:51 <flo> I guess Even should take a look at it
21:58:20 <clokep> flo: Yes! Just figured I'd tell you in case you weren't also getting it. Should I file a bug for him? :P
21:59:17 <flo> good idea :)
22:00:55 <clokep> Would that go under websites?
22:01:23 <clokep> Its actually not even a warning, just an info message
22:04:57 <flo> it's still scary to not know the meaning
22:05:18 <clokep> Exactly.
22:05:36 <instantbot> New Websites - Updates bug 487 filed by clokep@gmail.com.
22:05:38 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=487 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Updates throw info message (RFC 5746 -- SSL/TLS) in Instantbird
22:05:41 <clokep> Should I assign it to Even or just let the email deal?
22:05:57 <clokep> (I don't even know if I can assign it to Even...)
22:07:19 <flo> arg, that omnijar thing is broken :(
22:08:53 <clokep> Oh no. :(
22:14:39 <clokep> flo: Is there any reason in Instantbird that a browser element I place will open all links in my default browser?
22:15:01 <flo> yes
22:15:24 <clokep> can I get it to /not/ do that?
22:15:25 <clokep> :)
22:16:19 <flo> some pref somewhere says tell Mozilla that instantbird doesn't support http, https and ftp
22:16:36 <clokep> Hmmm...
22:16:38 <flo> so that it looks for an external application when you click on a link in a conversation
22:17:08 <clokep> OK, but I have a browser in a pop-up window, and I want the forms/links in it to open in the same browser element.
22:17:26 <flo> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/app/profile/all-instantbird.js#249
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22:18:02 <clokep> But I can't flip that cause then links in conversations will open in the window, no?
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22:18:15 <flo> yeah...
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22:18:39 <flo> I think there was some magic in Prism to open internal links in the same <browser> and use the external browser for external links
22:19:07 <clokep> Haha OK.
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22:19:36 <clokep> You using the term "magic" scares me a little bit.
22:23:17 <flo> you don't like my magic? :)
22:23:32 <clokep> Your magic is fine, prism's magic is scary.
22:23:52 <flo> and unmaintained as it seems
22:23:58 <flo> as so many other mozilla labs projects :(
22:28:56 <clokep> I dislike how often labs stuff gets unmaintained. :-\
22:29:40 <flo> I think it becomes harder to share their enthusiasm
22:35:59 <clokep> flo: Do you know where the Prism code is? Is that still CVS?
22:36:27 <flo> the code that used the hwnd we looked at previously today was part of it
22:37:03 <clokep> Right, it was called webrunner. :)
22:38:14 <flo> calling it prism would be too simple. There would be the risk of people looking at it ;)
22:39:53 <clokep> I'm guessing there isn't a way to flip that preference for just one browser instance. :-\
22:40:02 <clokep> Would it be ghetto to flip it, open the browser, flip it back? :)
22:41:17 <flo> it's probably checked at the time you click the link
22:42:28 <clokep> Well I could keep it up till you close it? :-\
22:42:33 <clokep> Hmmm...
22:43:06 <flo> is the popup the form where the user needs to login to twitter?
22:43:15 <clokep> Yes.
22:43:27 <clokep> I think I found how they do it. :)
22:46:33 <flo> good evening :)
22:50:57 <clokep> Goodnight.
22:51:48 <Mic> Good luck with your work
22:51:50 <Mic> and good night
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23:19:09 <clokep> flo: The way Prism does it is that it keeps them as "internal" and then checks whether they should be external manually and calls the nsIExternalProtocolService if it should be.
23:28:09 <clokep> I decided to just fip that preference for now and work on my code for a bit.
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