#instantbird log on 08 29 2010

All times are UTC.

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13:44:08 <Mic> hi
13:47:49 <flo> hey :)
13:51:29 <instantbot> leeraccount@yahoo.de added attachment 339 to bug 484.
13:51:31 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=484 enh, --, ---, leeraccount, NEW, Changed icons for Options dialog (Windows, Classic theme)
13:53:08 <Mic> A different and much better icon in my opinion :)
13:55:15 <flo> :)
13:57:59 <Mic> I've put a screenshot of the Option dialog on the wiki again. It gives a better impression if it goes well with the rest
13:58:09 <Mic> I think it does ;)
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14:29:45 <iLobster> Greetings
14:30:08 <clokep> Hello.
14:30:19 <Mic> Hi
14:31:33 <clokep> Mic was it you that was complaining the new add-on manager was super ugly?
14:31:44 <clokep> Blog post about an updated appearance: http://jboriss.wordpress.com/2010/08/29/add-ons-manager-ui-update/
14:31:46 <iLobster> Is there any way to make contact in list invisible? I have some jabber transports in list now and i want to hide them. May be it's possible to edit some strings in blist.sqlite file for that?
14:31:57 <clokep> Which is mostly in the nightlies now anyway actually.
14:32:10 <Mic> clokep: thanks, I've already seen it
14:32:24 <flo> iLobster: not really. But you can make them almost invisible by moving all of them to a specific group, and collapsing the group in the buddy list
14:32:24 <clokep> iLobster: I'm not sure, but you could move them all into a separate group and then collapse the group.
14:32:36 <flo> clokep: :)
14:32:50 <iLobster> oki, thanks, i'll try it
14:33:03 <Mic> clokep: it  really looks good, though
14:33:46 <Mic> Except for the problem that these protruding tabs always look a bit awkward to me
14:34:26 <clokep> Mic: I flip between thinking it looks good and really bad, I feel like I keep thinking it looks good just cause it looks so much /better/ then the original colors.
14:35:50 <Mic> lol
14:35:56 <Mic> I just found the xkcd reference :D
14:36:05 <clokep> Mic: Yes, haha!
14:36:09 <Mic> Or at least I'd bet it is one
14:36:18 <clokep> Also, did you see the "Appearance" section which has more then just hemes?
14:36:38 <Mic> Backgrounds are re-branded personas if you mean that
14:36:59 <clokep> Yes, but we could also put "Message Styles" and "Emoticon Sets" or whatever in there too...?
14:37:26 <flo> this new add-ons manager seems to rely a lot on AMO being behind to provide information
14:37:37 <Mic> The addon manager was intended to be so extensible
14:37:49 * clokep didn't think of not having AMO...
14:38:50 <Mic> The "Black Stratini" theme there is credited to "AmbientThemes" even though it is by patrickjdempsey originally, the other themes have th right author 
14:39:05 <flo> I'm not sure the back/forward buttons will integrate well in anything but a web browser
14:40:23 <Mic> I wonder if that was on purpose .. I remember that he said there's trouble between some Mozilla staff and theme creators. They feel pushed out and replaced by the 'Personas lovers' iirc
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14:41:05 <flo> Mic: we could almost say the same for jetpack vs "old" add-ons
14:41:07 <Mic> I mean I don't see how Personas could really replace themes ... it takes time and resolve to create a theme while Personas are .. 
14:41:31 <Mic> .. not much more than cropped photos in worst case.
14:42:54 <Mic> I'm not sure if the jetpack approach is so good after all
14:43:27 <Mic> Certainly, it might have it's adavantages to have a nice API and not to bother about where to place your stuff or what to overlay
14:43:29 <clokep> I don't like using HTML in my XUL apps. :P And its really not much harder to learn XUL. I think they'll end up with a lot more low quality extensions this way.
14:43:49 <clokep> I'd have preferred they actually finished FUEL. :-\
14:44:02 <Mic> but exactly this extensibility is what makes it so powerful imo. You can do things that you just can't on Chrome or Opera or whatsoever
14:44:29 <Mic> The Tab Candy / Panorama feature seems to be mostly HTML
14:45:40 <clokep> Right.
14:45:43 <flo> they were talking a few years ago about deprecating XUL
14:46:45 <flo> and binary components
14:46:53 <flo> and so many things that are still there today :)
14:50:03 <Mic> I should try the new nightlies with the double column Firefox menu..
14:50:31 <clokep> Its nice. But I never even use the menu...everything I do is via keyboard shortcuts.
14:50:56 <Mic> Having menus that overlap each others doesn't sound very convenient but actually trying won't hurt ;)
14:51:45 <Mic> I guess it's not called improvement for nothing ;)
14:52:17 <flo> sometimes it takes time to see the difference between "change" and "improvement" ;)
14:52:34 <Mic> eg I think the ribbons on MSO were a great improvement even so many people complain that things are functioning differently now
14:53:12 <clokep> Mic: I agree, and the menu is vaguely from that, but its functionally different then the version is MSO.
15:00:49 <Mic> I meant the actual ribbons btw, not the Office Menu
15:01:10 <Mic> (There was no direct reference to Firefox anymore)
15:04:08 <Mic> I think messagestyles are too complicated for average users ... they'd definitely prefer background images that they could set themselves
15:04:42 <Mic> It would make them feel soo good to express themselves via these images. It would be awesome!
15:05:10 <Mic> scnr :P
15:06:30 * Morian gives instantbot a piece of suggar.
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15:07:54 <flo> Mic: At some point, we planed to add a message style that would be mostly transparent, and would make a background image fit very well
15:08:20 <flo> with some built-in images, and a way for the users to customize (vacation photos, ...)
15:44:17 <Mic> bye
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18:09:44 <tymerkaev> flo: have you seen https://wiki.instantbird.org/File:%28instantbird.org%29-%28logo-alternative%29-%28small%29.png?
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19:16:32 <Mic> good evening
19:31:26 <tymerkaev> Mic: what program you've used for bug 484?
19:31:28 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=484 enh, --, ---, leeraccount, NEW, Changed icons for Options dialog (Windows, Classic theme)
19:32:25 <Mic> Corel Paint Shop Pro Photo X2
19:32:47 <Mic> Mostly because I've been using PSP for years and my university has a license for all students
19:33:49 <Mic> I guess the important thing is that the program can do proper alpha-transparancy and can save PNGs with alpha-channel
19:35:18 <Mic> Question answered?
19:41:02 <tymerkaev> yes
19:41:16 <Mic> :)
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19:46:43 <flo> tymerkaev: idechix uses Inkscape and GIMP ;)
19:50:11 <Mic> I guess I'd use Inkscape as well if I'd need to create vector graphics (or images in different sizes that should scale nicely)
19:55:49 <tymerkaev> flo: I'm using Inkscape for basic images and Photoshop for something else.
19:56:38 <tymerkaev> flo: if you aren't afk, could you see https://wiki.instantbird.org/File:%28instantbird.org%29-%28logo-alternative%29-%28small%29.png?
19:57:10 <flo> what about it?
19:57:42 <tymerkaev> What do you think?
19:57:57 <flo> I think "what's the point?"
19:58:03 <tymerkaev> it's alternative variant of font for ib logo
19:58:12 <flo> and?
19:58:15 <tymerkaev> better font?
19:59:38 <flo> I don't see how it's better. And changing the logo requires quite a bit of work, so I don't see us doing it again soon.
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20:04:04 <Mic> The blog posting about localizations on extensions exactly says what I was afraid about
20:04:58 <Mic> that it is basically too complicated to get all translations in time to release new versions promtply if necessary
20:05:26 <Mic> I wish there would be a way where you could add localizations to extensions once they are made public/updated
20:06:35 * flo was reading the same post
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20:08:52 <flo> Mic: I think the only workable long term solution is to have translation as separate add-ons that depend on the en-US version
20:09:18 <flo> I'm not sure how updates of the en-US version could be blocked until there's an updated version of the locale though
20:09:25 <Mic> Is it actually possible to add dependencies?
20:09:46 <Mic> I think I read something about that on MDC once but I'm not sure if it said yes or no there :D
20:09:52 <Mic> *whether
20:10:07 <flo> there used to be a non-fully-working support for that (the add-on manager checked dependencies, but didn't resolve them automatically), I think it was removed as part of the add-on manager redesign
20:11:05 <Mic> hmm, I never thought about that .. 
20:11:41 <Mic> .. it means that an extension could inject stuff into another by using its chrome paths?
20:11:55 <flo> why not? :)
20:12:07 <Mic> Sure, why not.
20:12:11 <flo> extensions are not sandboxed. Hmm, maybe jetpacks add-ons are, I don't know
20:14:19 <Mic> That was an insight-"sure why not" btw ;)
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20:22:03 <clokep> flo: Yeah, I think support was removed with the add on manager redesign unfortunately. :( The best way to do translations for extensions is probably as other "dictionaries" type things.
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21:00:13 <Mic> Nice .. 
21:00:40 <Mic> The extension I mentioned in bug 346 works :)
21:00:43 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=346 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Buddy list always on top
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21:36:04 <Mic> Let's see if I might use the "Always On Top"-binary component for an extension ... would be great if yes :)
21:47:10 <Mic> good night
21:47:15 <flo> good night
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