#instantbird log on 08 20 2010

All times are UTC.

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09:35:03 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 
09:35:47 <flo> hello :)
09:36:04 <Mic> hi
09:36:24 <Mic> Vacation's over already?
09:38:57 <flo> yep
09:39:48 <Mic> Ways too soon, I guess? ;)
09:40:01 <flo> well, I'm at home, and not going to spend all my time on Instantbird this week.
09:40:11 <flo> The kayak seems to call me :)
09:40:27 <Mic> Follow the call then ;)
09:40:42 <flo> want to have it? ;)
09:42:00 <Mic> Kayaking sounds fun, but I rather stay home and trink my sage tea, trying to get better
09:42:04 <Mic> ;)
09:43:38 <flo> are you sick?
09:45:18 <flo> the bed also has a huge attraction power today. I spent most of the last 7 days hiking in forests, except yesterday -- drove for 9 hours.
09:45:58 <Mic> A bit .. too much for not going to work
09:46:12 <Mic> ..and too little to stay in bed
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11:56:13 <flo> oh, first time I see the "mobile" icon on my buddy list :)
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13:57:13 <Mic> flo: I would suggest that the status 'mobile' takes precedence over 'idle'
13:58:00 <flo> I'm not sure what this means :)
14:01:43 <Mic> The status' on a buddy are set in a certain order
14:02:04 <Mic> which makes one take precedence over another if both are set simultaneously
14:02:19 <Mic> https://hg.instantbird.org/instantbird/file/99ee5962ffa2/instantbird/content/buddy.xml#l125
14:03:41 <Mic> Ignoring multiple accounts for the sake of simplicity it says there (ordered by importance):
14:03:42 <Mic> offline > idle > mobile > away > available
14:04:54 <Mic> I would say the fact that someone is 'mobile' is more interesting than someone is 'idle'  at the same time
14:11:18 <flo> that's a mess :(
14:12:32 <flo> "mobile" helps to answer the question "Am I going to interrupt/be annoying?" and the others to "Am I likely to get an answer quickly?"
14:14:41 <flo> what should we display when someone is connected both from a computer and away/busy/idle, and also mobile from a phone? Where should IMs be sent?
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15:50:20 * deOmega still frustrated over log behavior
15:50:36 <deOmega> Does anyone know if this is being addressed at all?
15:51:20 <deOmega> where  conversations are being broken up as separate log events
15:59:16 <Mic> What do you mean by this?
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16:10:46 <deOmega> when i look into my log  for conversations....  is i had one conversation session with an individual today...  i would still see multiple sessions for that date, if one's status changed in the conversation... though neither of us  left the conversation window.
16:11:00 <deOmega> is=if
16:25:42 <Mic> Would you write a bug report about that?
16:25:50 <deOmega> i already did
16:25:59 <Mic> oh, good :)
16:26:07 <deOmega> probably ver a week or so now
16:27:20 <Mic> I found it :)
16:27:50 <Mic> Is it happening with a certain IM network only?
16:28:23 <Mic> (or with which one(s) have you seen it already)
16:29:59 <deOmega> hmm.. let me  doublecheck, but for sure it is working with google chat as that is the oe i noticed this morning searching
16:30:22 <deOmega> i mean, it is a Problem with google
16:31:14 <deOmega> MSN too
16:31:24 <deOmega> all of them it seems
16:31:40 <deOmega> status changes seem to break the session
16:32:09 <deOmega> I really wish that they can be grouped by dates.. whether session was closed or not
16:33:06 <Mic> ok, I'll try to reproduce this problem
16:33:13 <Mic> After dinner ;)
16:33:15 <Mic> bbl
16:33:41 <deOmega> ok, thank you so much Mic  .. thank you SO MUCH.
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17:37:01 <flo> deOmega: is it when changing your status or the contact's status?
17:37:21 <flo> is it for any status or just when any of the accounts is switched to offline/disconnected?
17:40:55 <deOmega> seems like for any status change.. i stil do not change my status.. si I suppose it is when the contact's status change
17:41:53 <flo> are you on 0.2 or on nightlies?
17:41:59 <deOmega> it definitely happens for offline and online.. always has.. or if the message window is closed
17:42:01 <deOmega> Nightlies
17:42:07 <tymerkaev> flo: could you confirm bug 477?
17:42:09 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=477 nor, --, 0.3, nobody, UNCO, Improve preferences menu.
17:42:36 <deOmega> flo: version 0.3a1pre (20100819041919)
17:42:37 <flo> tymerkaev: From what I remember I can't agree with some of the points there
17:43:16 <tymerkaev> flo: what points?
17:44:37 <flo> 2,3,4.
17:44:46 <flo> I don't understand 1.
17:45:08 <tymerkaev> hmm
17:46:08 <tymerkaev> Instantbird is program for IM, but Firefox is browser
17:46:59 <tymerkaev> flo: I can attach mockups if you want
17:48:08 <tymerkaev> flo: 2 - why, 3 - just need own images, 4 - why?
17:48:58 <flo> I've just commented in the bug
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17:50:55 <flo> deOmega: looking at the code, I see the log is changed each time there's a conversation-closed or conversation-left-chat signal
17:52:17 <flo> crap, there's a bug in that code. conversation-left-chat is fired each time update-conv-title is fired. This is not intended
17:53:13 <flo> deOmega: the good news is... I have a trivial patch to fix your bug :)
17:53:26 <deOmega> Thank you  LOL
17:53:42 <deOmega> is it possible at all o give teh option to  save the logs by date?
17:53:56 <deOmega> sorta like these instantbird logs?
17:54:27 <deOmega> irc.instantbird logs
17:56:17 <flo> I'm not sure that's better
17:56:40 <flo> it's annoying to have an IM conversation split between 2 log files if you are starting a conversation 5 minutes before midnight
17:57:32 <flo> I would prefer if we could change the log file each time there's some amount of time (20minutes? We could make this value configuration in about:config) without any message.
17:57:41 <flo> I think that's what gmail does.
17:58:41 <deOmega> I respect that...here is a scenario  to consider
17:59:16 <deOmega> one moment please
17:59:35 <flo> by the way, are you talking about the way logs are saved, or the way they are displayed in the list of the "Show Logs" window?
18:02:44 <deOmega> ah, the way they are displayed in the showlogs window
18:03:20 <deOmega> hmm,  i assumed they would be the  same
18:03:53 <flo> that's currently a good assumption
18:04:03 <flo> but it can and will change in the future :)
18:05:58 <deOmega> ok.  Great.       teh scenaria i was referring to.. you are discussing various subjects throughout the  day with various contacts... an 8 hour day.    so you have many  sessions where you close the session...whatever the reason
18:06:26 <deOmega> 2 days later, you have tor eference the conversations  for that day to find a keyword discussed
18:07:03 <deOmega> You then have to sift through  segments of chats
18:07:13 <deOmega> as opposed to doing a search  on the date
18:07:27 <deOmega> keyword search
18:07:39 * flo loves seeing the real use case explained :)
18:08:37 <flo> if you have a log for each topic, the situation is perfect, you don't want them to appear as one conversation (it would be confusing)
18:09:26 <flo> what you really seem to want is a (not yet implemented) better search feature: type a keyword in the search field, and only the logs containing that keyword remain visible in the list :)
18:12:19 <deOmega> Ok.   2 or 3 days ago,  one of my contacts mentioned  a company i should  look into.   and gave me some information along with the name of the company.    I do not recall the time, but not the exact date.. just know it is two or three days ago.
18:12:45 <deOmega> if teh information is stored by date.. i can  find that information with one or two  search attempts by date
18:13:09 <deOmega> however, with teh current setup... as i have many many interropted sessions
18:13:15 <flo> if you know the name of the company, isn't it easier to find the log using this?
18:13:20 <deOmega> it takes forever to  search for that information
18:14:04 <deOmega> the show logs thingy searches  session by session
18:14:24 <flo> I know
18:14:48 <deOmega> so takes forever and i often give up
18:14:49 <flo> I just said it should also filter the list of logs
18:15:36 <flo> anyway, dinner time. Back later! :)
18:15:39 <deOmega> haha, yes, what u said above would be  fine
18:15:40 <deOmega> :)
18:15:40 <Mic> I'd like to filter ..
18:15:45 <Mic> .. anything ;)
18:15:52 <Mic> *everything
18:16:09 <deOmega> did not  realize your message. but yes, i wou dtake that  then
18:18:37 <deOmega> Actually, that is a splendid idea
18:19:52 <deOmega> filter everything :)
18:28:33 <Mic> Yes, that's the idea ..
18:29:03 <Mic> like starting to type someone's name on the buddy list and only the buddies that match the entered text as shown
18:29:15 <Mic> *are
18:30:37 <deOmega> makes sense, though i  have never used the search  for buddy feature  on the contact list... actually, i  hardly use the contact list
18:31:00 <deOmega> but i realize it is not about  what 'I' want but  consensus 
18:32:59 <deOmega> or what makes sense
18:33:12 <deOmega> Buddy list ought to be useful for who will be using it
18:36:09 <deOmega> where is clokep?
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18:54:54 <Mic> what a pity: the pane/tabs like on the addon manager or the preferences dialog don't allow to scroll through the pane head/icon list on top when there is too little space
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18:55:34 <Mic> The idea was to use something like this for buddy related settings, where addons could add a pane for their own settings
18:56:15 <Mic> So you have a single place where to look for buddy related settings
18:56:52 <Mic> (e.g. Buddy Status that allows fine-grained settings for each buddy
18:57:33 <Mic> It could be accessible via context menu for example
18:57:50 <Mic> Might offer the same on groups level
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19:21:43 <clokep> deOmega: I'm on vacation.
19:23:09 <deOmega> clokep: Godo for you.. enjoy
19:23:36 <clokep> I'm traveling tomorrow, will be home for a few days, then moving so it's a busy few weeks. But what's up?
19:25:06 <deOmega> Not much.. just checking to see what you were  up to
19:26:38 <clokep> Nothing much the past two weeks. :)
19:27:23 <deOmega> good for you, enjoy... i see flo is on vacation too or was.. you guys planned this?
19:32:22 <clokep> flo is back I believe? Just relaxing this week.
19:32:25 <clokep> Hahah, unplanned.
19:33:53 <deOmega> :)
19:35:40 <tymerkaev> flo: I guess nightlies will be switched to m-c soon?
19:46:43 <Mic> ok.. so that I'm not just the 'idea guy', i'll provide a quick hack and a screenshot of it as example for what I meant:
19:47:54 <Mic> https://wiki.instantbird.org/File:BuddySettingsQuickHack.png
19:49:38 <Mic> (the Sync item is ofcourse just a place holder .. I had no other nice icon at hand)
19:52:01 <Mic> (could someone say 'awesome' please?:P)
19:52:15 * clokep is waiting for the image to load.
19:52:24 <tymerkaev> 'User Info' or something like that will be anyway
19:52:29 <tymerkaev> Mic: ;)
19:52:42 <clokep> "awesome"!
19:52:56 <clokep> But I don't really see what its supposed to do. ;)
19:53:21 <clokep> Its a separate preferences window for extensions?
19:53:35 <clokep> Oh I see. (I read the description. :P)
19:53:52 <clokep> OK, now I'm going to say "awesome" without the quotes.
19:53:56 <clokep> Mic, that's awesome! :-D
19:54:20 <Mic> It's not only for extensions but for any preferences that could be set on a per-buddy level
19:55:32 <clokep> :)
19:55:38 <clokep> And if its not set then the default is used?
19:55:43 <clokep> I have to get going -- about to go hiking.
19:55:53 <Mic> Yes, sort of
19:56:03 <clokep> Ah, very nice.
19:56:18 <clokep> Maybe I'll work on some extensions on my 7 hours of plane tomorrow.
19:56:22 <clokep> Bye.
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19:56:33 <Mic> I'm not sure how to make it operate with the pref systems nicely yet but that might be solved somehow
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19:59:54 <deOmega> mic..  are we gonna soon have a linkable item for when we get an alert for buddy status?
20:00:22 <Mic> Yes, you can see this setting on the screenshot I guess?
20:00:34 <Mic> ah, indeed :)
20:01:15 <deOmega> haham i honestly did not niotice it there
20:01:38 <Mic> It will be there anyways ;)
20:01:41 <deOmega> my typing is horrible
20:01:52 <deOmega> head all over the place
20:02:00 <Mic> I've not done anything on fixing the multiple notifications from the same buddy yet
20:02:31 <deOmega> ok
20:02:35 <Mic> but maybe it will have some logic as well, e.g. surpressing notifications completely if there's a sing-off + sign-on notification quickly after the other
20:02:49 <Mic> that is if someone had a short connection issue
20:03:21 <deOmega> makes sense
20:03:42 <deOmega> i actually had it set to just alert me when someone signs on, but  i had not gotten a notification in a while
20:03:58 <deOmega> so either  no one signs on after i am online or something    HA!
20:04:30 <Mic> Which version do you use?
20:04:45 <Mic> 0.1.4 was pretty buggy, but such 0.1.5 should work fine
20:05:00 <Mic> -such
20:05:46 <deOmega> let me check
20:06:06 <deOmega> I am using 0.1.5
20:06:57 <Mic> I've no reports about any problems with this version
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20:07:40 <deOmega> hmm, it  just worked.. first time in a while
20:07:54 <Mic> I'm fine with that ;)
20:07:57 <deOmega> but this time i have   status  change checked, though nothing else under is checked
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20:09:29 <Mic> Thanks a lot .. you indeed found a bug :S
20:09:39 <deOmega> oh wow... nice
20:09:43 <deOmega> thanks
20:10:23 <Mic> I wanted the "changes status" only to apply to the settings below but I messed up as it seems
20:10:30 * Mic adds it to the todo list
20:10:46 <deOmega> Mic: thank you 
20:15:52 <deOmega> seee you guys  later....  day is done here  :)
20:15:54 <DGMurdockIII> the three stat that there are online unavable and offline is offline to go to offline morde
20:16:05 <DGMurdockIII> statuis
20:16:17 <DGMurdockIII> status
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20:16:49 <DGMurdockIII> offline mode or to disscent from the account you are connected to
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20:18:14 <DGMurdockIII> how do i save custom statues
20:21:33 <Mic> There are no custom statuses yet
20:21:54 <Mic> "Offline" takes Instantbird to Offline mode, which disconnects accounts
20:22:26 <Mic> They should reconnect automatically when selecting "Online" again afaik (I'm not using the this feature at all)
20:22:58 <Mic> Online is "not Offline" here ;)
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20:29:12 <instantbot> New Instantbird (UI) bug 479 filed by leeraccount@yahoo.de.
20:29:13 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=479 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Provide means to manage per-buddy-settings reasonably
20:29:46 <DGMurdockIII> you mean ofline is not online her
20:29:49 <DGMurdockIII> \here*
20:30:33 <Mic> You're talking about the status menu on the buddy list?
20:31:36 <-- hicham has quit (Ping timeout)
20:57:40 <DGMurdockIII> yes
21:00:14 <flo> tymerkaev: we will switch to using m-c as soon as the regressions are fixed on the mozilla2 branch :)
21:00:57 <tymerkaev> flo: you're here?
21:01:41 <tymerkaev> flo: close icons now 16x16 px on Windows
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21:19:35 <flo> tymerkaev: I don't know which icon you are talking about, and I don't know why either
21:25:04 <tymerkaev> tabbrowser close buttons
21:25:19 <tymerkaev> they're now 16px instead 14px
21:25:33 <tymerkaev> you need to update css
21:27:34 <tymerkaev> flo: see bug 579780 for example
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21:30:48 <flo> tymerkaev: so that's for when we switch to m-c?
21:33:00 <tymerkaev> yes
21:34:20 <tymerkaev> flo: windows (landed) bug 569255 and mac (just reported) bug 589219
21:34:39 <tymerkaev> they'll have 16px size
21:35:22 <flo> ok, thanks for the early warning :)
21:35:48 <tymerkaev> flo: np
21:36:11 <tymerkaev> flo: you can do it right now for windows
21:36:31 <flo> we are still using 1.9.2
21:36:46 <tymerkaev> but I quess you'll need separate dir's for OS-specific themes
21:36:58 <tymerkaev> I mean branch mozilla2
21:37:06 <tymerkaev> isn't default
21:40:13 <flo> I haven't tried it on Windows yet
21:46:18 <tymerkaev> flo: what about tab styling like it in firefox for windows?
21:50:33 <Grunt> flo: can you help me?
21:51:06 <flo> Grunt: I guess I need to add that question in the FAQ ;)
21:51:39 <flo> Grunt: not until you tell me how/why you need help :)
21:52:33 <Grunt> it gives me a weird error when i try to go to anywhere in the Tools tab (preferences , etc) 
21:52:37 <Grunt> http://pastebin.com/DNEPmdSp
21:53:19 <Grunt> oh , i forgot to mention that it only happens when i go there with my translation on
21:53:35 <flo> this means you miss some string in a .dtd file used by this window
21:54:11 <Grunt> oh , thanks , i'll compare the translated file to the original then.
21:54:27 <flo> is this with a .xpi generated by our build system?
21:54:34 <Grunt> yes 
21:54:59 <Grunt> i only changed the version numbers to make it work with earlyer builds (2.0 Beta 2
21:55:03 <flo> that's strange. It's  supposed to refuse to create the xpi file if there are missing strings
21:55:15 <flo> aaaah
21:55:24 <tymerkaev> Grunt: need help?
21:55:26 <flo> why do you care about the beta?
21:55:57 <Grunt> i tried running it on 2.0 too , it gave the same error 
21:56:48 <Grunt> i am currently using the beta because i coulnt find a 2.0 zip release. and i cant install stuff on the pc that im currently on
21:56:56 * tymerkaev haven't seen 2.0 version ;(
21:57:39 <tymerkaev> Grunt: http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/releases/0.2/instantbird-0.2.en-US.win32.zip
21:57:50 <Grunt> thanks :)
21:58:12 <tymerkaev> np
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22:05:43 <Grunt> flo: they seem to be identical (just the translated strings differ of course). 
22:15:14 <flo> Grunt: http://buildbot-l10n.instantbird.org/builders/translate/builds/182/steps/shell_3/logs/stdio/text
22:15:29 <flo> I think this is the output of the buildsystem script for your latest commit
22:15:59 <flo> why this wasn't included in the email you received is something I don't understand
22:16:42 <flo> the # character cannot be used for comments in .dtd files
22:17:04 <flo> I think you can use <!-- comment --> instead (as in HTML files)
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22:20:24 <Grunt> flo: thanks , you are really helpful and friendly :)
22:29:14 <flo> you are welcome
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22:38:28 <flo> Grunt: http://buildbot-l10n.instantbird.org/builders/translate/builds/188/steps/shell_3/logs/stdio/text
22:42:02 <flo> apparently preferences.dtd is not in utf8
22:43:10 <Grunt> flo: thanks for pointing all those things out that i forgot/didnt know :) 
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22:50:45 <RickieES> /who
22:51:13 <RickieES> (Oops, sorry. I'm trying to create snapshots) :-)
22:51:16 <RickieES> clear
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22:54:10 <Mic> "this means you miss some string in a .dtd file used by this window"
22:54:23 <Mic> A missing string should result in "missing entitiy" afaik
22:54:57 <flo> the error was "undefined entity"
22:55:11 <flo> undefined or unknown, I don't remember
22:55:37 <Mic> exactly
22:56:22 * flo tries to reopen bug 478
22:56:26 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=478 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO WONTFIX, more info on update link broken
22:56:43 <flo> is strange that I can't change the status from RESO WONTFIX to NEW. I can only set it to UNCO :-S
23:00:26 <instantbot> florian@instantbird.org cleared the Resolution 'WONTFIX' from bug 478.
23:00:30 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=478 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, more info on update link broken
23:05:19 <Mic> Generating a changelog would be a problem in my opinion as mentioned in comment 1
23:06:09 <-- Grunt has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
23:06:31 <Mic> What about removing the link?
23:10:04 <Mic> btw was that part of a bug triaging session? ;)
23:14:22 <flo> nope
23:14:31 <flo> I'm going through my list of stared emails
23:14:59 <flo> I read my emails everyday while I was on vacations, but didn't reply, I only stared the emails that I wanted to reply to
23:16:29 <flo> Mic: while updating we have both the old and new build id. I think it could be possible to include both in the URL
23:17:08 <Mic> That's good, then it might work
23:19:56 <flo> The only emails that I really took actions on during my vacation was my server being down the first day :-/.
23:20:24 <flo> We got it back online at the end of the day
23:20:36 <flo> I know some of you here had time to notice that lxr was offline.
23:23:12 <flo> I don't know what I can reply to this email on contact@ib.org:
23:23:13 <flo> "Hi, i have a problem with connection to gadu gadu protocol. After instalation, i write in my password and user name(my number gadugadu?). The program will not connect to server. I see comunicat "Error. Conection error" and countown. What's wrong?"
23:26:14 <Mic> That's pretty little information
23:26:37 <Mic> added to the fact that I have no idea about Gadu-Gadu at all.
23:26:48 <Mic> I guess the best thing I can do now .. is go to bed ;)
23:27:56 <Mic> Good luck with your emails
23:28:12 <flo> good night :)
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23:45:36 <clokep> I think Firefox nightlies actually link to a 404 for the "more info" on updates. :)
23:48:00 <flo> yeah...
23:48:05 <flo> is that a good reason to do so? ;)
23:49:03 <clokep> No. Just saying that nightly testers shouldn't care? :-D
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