#instantbird log on 07 24 2010

All times are UTC.

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04:24:07 <clokep> Mic: Putting links on attachments to bugs? What? You mean in auto-link? Could possibly be done. Have to look at the pattern.
04:24:35 <clokep> Also the Product:Addons & Components was definitely meant only for "official" addons. Other ones would be marked as invalid.
04:24:55 <clokep> Also the general "Product:Addons" could probably be used as addons hooks.
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06:56:12 <Mic> Good morning
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08:09:32 <Mic> hmm, let's see
08:10:06 <Mic> I'm starting a new extension :) I guess it will be a quick one so no need to wait until I finish the content preview
08:32:43 <Mic> flo: account-connected is fired after a successful connect?
08:51:06 <Mic> flo: could it be that "buddy-away" is fired on status changes in general?
08:51:16 <flo> yes, that's a bug
08:51:22 <Mic> Sorry
08:51:34 <flo> We will replace it by buddy-status-changed someday
08:51:39 <Mic> I just looked at the wiki article and it says that
08:53:02 <Mic> I'm working on an extension that adresses bug 184
08:53:05 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=184 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Notification on buddy status change/...
08:55:04 <Mic> Maybe we should restyle the notifications popup to make it look more .. Instantbird-ish
08:56:01 <Mic> The current outlook is so plain
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10:28:07 <Mic> flo: could it be that account-connecting is not fired for automatically connecting accounts?
10:35:17 <flo> Mic: it could be fired before your overlay is loaded
10:42:00 <Mic> too bad .. I need to think of something else then
10:42:19 <Mic> account-connected is too late
10:42:32 <flo> which window are you overlaying?
10:42:53 <Mic> There can be buddy-* events fired before I'm ready (which is bad)
10:42:57 <Mic> blist
10:45:15 <Mic> Basically I'm "muting" "connecting" accounts and unmute them a few seconds after "connected" to avoid an excessive number of sign-on/alias notifications
10:47:26 <flo> that's to avoid the sounds when an account is connected?
10:47:45 <flo> oh, no, for popup notifications?
10:47:55 <Mic> No, I'm displaying a notification window with a message saying what happened
10:48:13 <Mic> e.g. "flo is away now: blablob"
10:50:44 <flo> isn't the account-connected signal always before the buddy-signed-on signals?
10:51:22 <flo> are you using a debug build? If so, you can make it print all notifications to the terminal to check in which order they are fired
10:51:46 <Mic> I'm not using a debug build
10:52:50 <Mic> I registered an observer for the buddy+account events and wrote them to the error console
10:54:19 <Mic> If they appear in the same order as they are written, then it's possible to have buddy events before the connected event
10:54:47 <Mic> (at least buddy-alias events, I'm not sure about the others)
10:56:35 <flo> aren't buddy-alias when loading the buddy list?
10:59:19 <flo> this is how I see them: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/313
11:02:13 <Mic> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/314
11:03:20 <flo> I know the oscar plugins notifies of a lot of status changed for offline buddies
11:03:29 <flo> I've only tested it on AIM
11:03:33 <flo> I guess you are on ICQ?
11:03:38 <Mic> It's ICQ here
11:04:35 <flo> interesting details on MSN: you are notified of "signed-off" when someone who is invisible disconnects :-D. Being "invisible" only hides "signed-on" and "status changed" notifications, not "signed-off" :-P.
11:04:37 <Mic> Beside that it's working fine so far :) I only need an options dialog to chose which events should be shown or hidden
11:05:04 <Mic> Do you know how invisible works on ICQ?
11:05:19 <flo> not well I guess :-D.
11:05:25 <Mic> They're using the block-list of AIM and do other strange hacks
11:05:26 <flo> invisibility is a mess on almost all protocols
11:05:50 <Mic> So the block list does different things on AIM and ICQ
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13:49:05 <kaie> hi. I read the faq, however, I'm not clear on your motivation. what additional benefit do you intend to provide, which is not yet available by cross platform pidgin? 
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14:27:55 <flo> kaie: Hi!
14:28:07 <kaie> hey
14:28:11 <flo> a better extensibility
14:28:14 <flo> better usability
14:28:36 <flo> we are not trying to compete with Pidgin though.
14:30:15 <flo> you may want to read http://www.instantbird.org/ for a general idea of what motivates us (This page is not technical though)
14:31:47 <flo> kaie: any particular thing you would like to see improved in a future instant messaging client? :)
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14:32:57 <kaie> flo: ok thanks. I've read the page, but wasn't sure why I'd want to switch from what I have already. Maybe the extensibility is a good argument, if instantbird addons can be created more easily than in pidgin
14:33:26 <kaie> I'd personally like to see spam protection and encryption
14:33:29 <flo> it's easier to create them in XUL/JS than in C using GTK.
14:33:34 <kaie> true
14:33:55 <Mic> btw the addon I started this morning is as good as ready :)
14:34:12 <flo> and pidgin is GTK-based, that's not "really cross platform". Windows users complain that it's not native, Mac users have the X server (though I've heard the GTK situation on Mac improved recently)
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14:38:00 <kaie> that's a good argument. I think you might want to add the above arguments to the faq page, because probably many people have the same thought as I
14:38:27 <flo> as I've said we are not really trying to make Pidgin users switch to Instantbird (but if they do, we won't be against it either ;)). I'd like if we could "convert" users from Windows Live Messenger, Digsby or Meebo.
14:38:48 <flo> (closed systems that try to lock users and their data in)
14:40:30 <kaie> you won't get the people who want to use the advanced features like webcam or phone
14:40:51 <flo> not now.
14:41:17 <flo> but I don't think Digsby or Meebo support webcams (except maybe by pointing people to a webservice using the flash plugin)
14:41:24 <kaie> pardon me if I'm being a troll, but I think it would more helpful to focus developer resources into adding voice/video functionality to pidgin cross platform, rather than starting another messenger project from scratch
14:41:44 <flo> I think if we make an android version and use Firefox Sync to keep the data in sync in a secure way, it may attract people
14:42:45 <flo> kaie: you can probably say that to the pidgin developers who started two (!) "native Windows UI" projects for Pidgin during last year's summer of code ;)
14:43:20 <kaie> sigh :)
14:43:45 <flo> or those linux people who started all that buzz around empathy/telepathy
14:43:54 <kaie> people are different. I personally don't even notice that pidgin looks non-native in windows (the few times I used windows)
14:44:43 <flo> yeah. Having different people creating different extensions is nice :).
14:45:33 <flo> by the way, if we can leverage the gstreamer work done on Songbird and the webcam work done in various bugs for Fennec, we may be in a pretty good position to have a really cross platform webcam support.
14:45:59 <kaie> I thought songbird stopped to support linux?
14:46:08 <flo> they stopped the QA on Linux.
14:46:35 <flo> but their developers still code on it, so they are not going to stop working on it soon.
14:46:46 <skeledrew> Android version? love what i'm hearing. it's the next big thing and i want to get an Android based phone soon, and it'd be great having IB on it :D
14:46:48 <skeledrew> anyway, bbl
14:47:05 <flo> skeledrew: I'm ordering my Android phone today ;)
14:47:20 <skeledrew> nice :)
14:47:26 * kaie hopes to be able to stay away from google centric android
14:47:37 <skeledrew> been doing some extensive research myself
14:48:09 <skeledrew> might even become a dealer/rooter/modder...
14:48:17 <flo> kaie: N900? :)
14:48:20 <kaie> yes
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14:49:13 <kaie> I like your comments re video and audio improvements in the core mozilla platform. given that people already work on that for firefox, and having the hope that instantbird will benefit, is a very strong argument in my opinion
14:49:51 <kaie> if you manage to have a cross platform app that supports webcam and calls, you have the killer IM app
14:49:51 <flo> I think the Mozilla platform is really giving lots of potential for improvements :)
14:50:40 <flo> there's still a lot of work to do before we can have webcam support though
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14:56:30 <deOmega> Android phone platform is awesome :)  And i say this being  the owner of the g1 which is .. well,  'old'.
14:57:58 <deOmega> Good day by the way, was reading the logs.
14:58:35 <deOmega> kaie: What do you think of apple products?
15:00:18 <deOmega> I do not have a follow-up question, I am just seeking your perspective after seeing your posts.
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15:16:02 <deOmega> mic: I am curious regarding your  extension :)
15:16:19 <Mic> It's as good as finished
15:16:34 <Mic> Despite the stupid bug on loading the application it's working now
15:16:47 <Mic> I've even did an icon already :)
15:16:57 <Mic> *created
15:16:59 <deOmega> I do not know the details of it
15:17:06 <deOmega> or recall
15:17:35 <Mic> oh, it will show a notification window when someone signs on or off, changes status to away, back or idle
15:17:42 <Mic> Or changes his/her name
15:17:52 <deOmega> Is it the one that does videos?
15:17:57 <deOmega> oops
15:17:58 <Mic> It's customizable which events you want to see
15:17:59 <deOmega> sorry
15:18:32 <Mic> Nope, it's something different, but as it was possible to realize it quickly I did it right now
15:19:15 <deOmega> Ah, that is nice.  I am certainly looking forward to it.  Funny, I did not even realize that this was missing.
15:19:36 <deOmega> Goes back to flo's point about the roadmap
15:19:51 <Mic> I'll polish a bit of the options UI and package it later
15:20:36 <deOmega> well, if you need a guinea pig, just look my way :)
15:23:39 <deOmega> will this show as a pop-up or in  the active message window?
15:24:27 <Mic> Like the ones that display messages in background windows (on Windows a small popup in the lower right corner)
15:25:03 <deOmega> perfect!
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15:35:56 <Mic> Packaging the extension .. 
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16:03:45 <Mic> if someone likes to test: https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addon/253/
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16:07:49 <tymerkaev> Mic: ping
16:07:54 <Mic> pong
16:08:02 <skeledrew1> ball
16:08:17 <tymerkaev> do you need translation for your addon?
16:08:45 <Mic> I'd be especially interested in how the notifications look on Mac (I guess the tiny icons are not well suited for this)
16:09:06 <Mic> It's not localizable yet but sooner or later sure
16:09:31 <Mic> I've noticed that many people complain if something's not available in their own language
16:10:19 <tymerkaev> source on google code?
16:10:57 <Mic> No code for evil Google.. ;)
16:11:11 <tymerkaev> where's source?
16:11:13 <skeledrew1> YES! status notifications :)
16:11:22 <skeledrew1> Mic: thanks
16:11:49 <Mic> I enabled source browsing on AIO
16:12:03 <Mic> So it is here: https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/files/browse/331
16:14:17 <skeledrew1> Mic: it's not compat with 0.2b2, and i haven't gotten to upgrading this IB yet :(
16:15:02 <Mic> I haven't tested it with this one but I guess it should work
16:15:09 <Mic> Let me lower the minversion..
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16:17:13 <Even> @skeledrew1: Just try to click on check for updates
16:17:24 <Even> @skeledrew1: I think it should update your beta automatically
16:17:38 <skeledrew1> ah
16:17:39 <skeledrew1> k
16:17:50 <Even> @skeledrew1: I *think*
16:18:04 <flo> and if you "check for updates" in the add-ons manager, it will download the compatibility patch for the add-on
16:18:10 <flo> ah, maybe not because it's experimental :-/
16:18:16 <Mic> skeledrew1: I'd be certainly interested if it works with this version of Ib as well
16:18:17 <Even> It should.
16:18:24 <skeledrew1> yep
16:18:26 <Even> If it's installed, it will take those if it's the same version.
16:18:34 <flo> Even: remora doesn't update experimental add-ons if I remember well
16:18:38 <Even> At least I think it will.
16:18:49 <Mic> It's only 15kB.. so downloading it again shouldn't be a big problem beside the effort
16:18:58 <Even> ^^
16:19:34 <skeledrew1> Mic: already updated. just need to restart...
16:19:49 <Even> Mic: if you intend to nominate your addon, since I'm here I can do the revview right now ^^
16:20:09 <Even> I already browsed the source code. Looks OK.
16:21:38 <skeledrew1> hmm. the main window tends to freeze during the update when running from a flash drive. even now it's freezing, and i haven't restarted yet...
16:22:11 <skeledrew1> s/and/though
16:22:38 <Mic> Even: I wanted to fix a problem first
16:23:34 <Mic> and was interested in some feedback before
16:26:54 <skeledrew1> applying updates...
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16:29:56 <Mic> Dinner now, I'm back later.
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16:55:42 <skeledrew1> Mic: notifications working like a charm :). only one minor issue: long status messages go right across the screen. i think it should be wrapped
16:56:32 <Mic> Is it long because of the buddy name?
16:56:57 <Mic> The messages themselves are quite short
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19:41:55 <DGMurdockIII> 2(flo2): did you see the bug i posted
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