#instantbird log on 07 23 2010

All times are UTC.

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07:34:01 <Mic> hi
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08:31:33 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 
08:44:43 <flo> Good morning :)
08:49:11 <tymerkaev> hello flo
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09:05:07 <Mic> hi
09:28:56 * flo is annoyed by that broken updater
09:29:43 <Mic> Cana you estimate how many people are affected by this?
09:29:46 <Mic> *Can
09:36:28 <flo> I guess we can
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10:49:09 <Mic> Google's top hit for "Instantbird 0.2": http://instantbird.com/download-0.2b1.html :S
10:52:35 <skeledrew> heh. maybe their spider's just slow
10:53:45 <skeledrew> hey clokep.
10:53:45 <skeledrew> didn't you update VT with the adjustable splitter?
10:54:04 <clokep> skeledrew; Yes, Even most likely has to approve it.
10:54:25 <clokep> Top hit for "instantbird download is "http://instantbird.com/features.html" which is good.
10:55:10 <skeledrew> i d/led VT via the addons manager. got v0.2. is that the right version?
10:55:20 <clokep> That's the newest versoin that's approved.
10:55:23 <clokep> 0.3 has the spliter.
10:55:27 <clokep> +t
10:55:28 <skeledrew> oh
10:55:41 <skeledrew> so it's still experimental
10:55:46 <clokep> Yeah its still pending review.
10:55:50 <clokep> Until it gets approved.
10:55:56 <skeledrew> manual d/l :(
10:55:57 <clokep> But I'm first in line. ;)
10:56:05 <skeledrew> good
10:56:07 <clokep> Or just wait a couple of days and i t'll update.
10:56:19 <skeledrew> i want VT. now
10:56:54 <clokep> Then manual download. ;)
10:57:05 <skeledrew> hmph
10:57:36 <skeledrew> sometimes some things are just too slow for me. esp red tape...
10:59:06 <skeledrew> i don't see a version #
10:59:21 <skeledrew> only latest as a ref
10:59:23 <clokep> https://addons.instantbird.org/en-US/instantbird/addons/versions/244
11:00:00 <skeledrew> ah. i'm at the right place :)
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11:04:04 <clokep> Hopefully it works on 0.2, it wasn't very extensively tested. :P
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11:05:40 <skeledrew> VT totally ROX!
11:05:48 <clokep> Everything works?
11:05:54 <clokep> Lines up correctly?
11:05:59 <skeledrew> hehe. no tabs :D
11:06:04 <Even> Vertical Tabs 0.3 is now pushed to public.
11:06:06 <skeledrew> so far so good
11:06:09 <clokep> Thanks Even.
11:06:20 <Even> No problem :)
11:06:29 <skeledrew> hey. i did the manual for nothing?
11:06:37 <Even> Seems so :P
11:06:42 <skeledrew> ...
11:06:47 <clokep> I'd ideally want to add some sort of notification when a message is received...
11:06:56 <clokep> But I'm not sure.
11:07:04 <skeledrew> title bar
11:07:11 <clokep> Or status bar.
11:07:18 <skeledrew> nah
11:07:21 <Even> Well, I saw the messages a little too late.
11:07:26 <skeledrew> that changes too much
11:07:26 <clokep> Updating...
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11:07:33 <Even> If I had a little earlier you would have had the update.
11:07:54 <Even> ^^
11:08:10 <skeledrew> ah well
11:10:09 <clokep> Anyway I'm glad you like it.
11:10:20 <skeledrew> clokep: my tab bar isn't pulling out :(
11:10:30 <clokep> Also Even, it should work somewhat better on Linux (I tested it this time on crunchbang.)
11:10:38 <clokep> skeledrew: Did you hit the grippy?
11:10:47 <skeledrew> yeah
11:10:52 <clokep> Although I could pull it out fine too.
11:11:06 <clokep> Hmm.
11:11:23 <clokep> WFM.
11:11:25 <clokep> Any errors?
11:11:52 <skeledrew> no
11:12:18 <skeledrew> it's just not passing the size of the tab list button
11:12:42 <clokep> You know what steps you did to make it do that?
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11:13:01 * ChanServ sets mode +o Even 
11:13:45 <clokep> Did I mention the theme in general is pretty ugly in Linux though? :P
11:14:07 <Even> Ok, Vertical Tabs works fine on Linux but tabs have a design that fits to be upside the windows but they are really awful on the right :)
11:14:14 <Even> s/right/left/
11:14:36 <Even> Yeah, themes do have some issues on Linux :D
11:14:42 <skeledrew> i hid the bar completely, then it jammed when i was pulling it out again to see the tab names (can only see the icons now)
11:15:14 <skeledrew> temp fix: i dragged the tabs to another window...
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11:15:43 * ChanServ sets mode +o Even 
11:15:50 <Even> OK, normal tabs again :D
11:16:10 <Even> I'm not using enough tabs alotogether to justify Vertical Tabs for now :D
11:16:40 <Even> What I'm really waiting is an extension that fix the buddy loist to the conversation window and uses a panel just like for the tabs for it.
11:16:56 <Even> Would be great to stop having two windows.
11:17:03 <clokep> Even: I noticed that...but there seems to be very little theming done in the Instantbird css file, it must all be done at the toolkit level which I haven't looked at all.
11:17:04 <Even> I'm pretty sure flo is working on something like that.
11:17:08 <Even> Will be great :D
11:17:41 <clokep> skeledrew: You hid it completely by dragging or with the grippy?
11:17:44 <skeledrew> good
11:18:02 <clokep> Hmm...it works for me no matter what I do. :-\
11:18:20 <Even> @clokep: yeah, it was working fine for me too
11:18:20 <skeledrew> ?
11:18:38 <clokep> skeledrew: What if you recollapse it and pull it back out?
11:18:45 <Even> It is maybe one of those pseudo random hard to debug bugs.
11:18:47 <Even> :)
11:18:55 <skeledrew> the grippy is the line with the couple arrows right?
11:19:03 <clokep> Yes.
11:19:08 <clokep> The thing where when you click it, it collapses.
11:19:11 <clokep> I'll be back.
11:19:11 <skeledrew> i use the grippy
11:19:32 <skeledrew> huh?
11:19:34 <skeledrew> wait a sec
11:20:06 <skeledrew> seems i don't have to collapse it completely for it to not drag out
11:20:27 <skeledrew> having the issue again, and i haven't hidden it
11:21:09 <skeledrew> the double arrow shows as i drag it out, but the bar isn't following it
11:25:28 <clokep> I have no idea. :-\
11:25:33 <clokep> I'd like to blame a toolkit issue. :)
11:25:36 <clokep> Do you have other extensions?
11:26:29 <skeledrew> yeah
11:26:59 <clokep> Others that deal w/ the tabs/tabbar at all?
11:27:19 <skeledrew> nope
11:27:34 <skeledrew> hmm
11:27:41 <skeledrew> NickServKiller?
11:27:57 <clokep> No I'm running with that too.
11:28:50 <clokep> So let me make sure I correctly understand.
11:29:13 <clokep> Dragging it will just stop working sometimes and the grippy will act is if its dragging but when you leet go of the mouse button, nothing happens?
11:32:17 <clokep> So I need to get going I'll be back in a littl ewhile.
11:32:21 <skeledrew> dragging to the left works great. but dragging to the right runs into something looking like a "max width" issue at (seemingly random) intervals
11:32:39 <clokep> Oh.
11:32:46 <skeledrew> trying to see if i can make a video or something
11:32:49 <clokep> Do you have a custom max-width set in about:config?
11:33:01 <skeledrew> never edited it
11:33:03 <clokep> (min width for that matter)
11:33:09 <clokep> Hm...well there goes that idea.
11:33:17 <clokep> I'll think about it, be back in a bit.
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11:54:46 <Mic> hmm, the Linux theme of vertical tabs looks really awful indeed
11:55:16 <Mic> but goes well with GTK  .. :P scnr
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12:36:11 <clokep> Mic: I agree! It looks pretty awful...but not any more awful then the rest of GTK, so I was just like "Oh well."
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13:13:02 <deOmega> Good day.   Congrats on the vertical tabs  adjustable feature.   I noticed that it has a nice weekly download average already.
13:14:12 <deOmega> clokep hi 5 :)
13:18:41 <clokep> Yes, seems people are using it.
13:18:55 <clokep> Any problems using it so far deOmega?
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13:19:22 <deOmega>  none whatsoever.  thank you.
13:19:31 <clokep> Good. thanks.
13:20:39 * testib takes a screenshot of the highlight add-on for Instantbird's add-on website.
13:21:04 <flo> arg, the keyword don't seem to be case insensitive
13:21:09 <clokep> That way you can actually make it not experimental? :P
13:21:12 <testib> instantbird
13:21:22 <flo> arg
13:21:25 * flo is stupid
13:21:37 <clokep> Forget an i?
13:21:39 <flo> I've an explicit exception for the "instantbird" keyword in this channel
13:22:02 <clokep> Hahah. Make a new channel?
13:22:16 <clokep> deOmega: Yes, seems like there's ~50 users currently. :)
13:22:32 <deOmega> I think a nice enhancement (Which  I assume would be separate), will be to  colorize the active tab.
13:22:40 <testib> Hey florian, I like this add-on!
13:22:47 <deOmega> what does 50 current users mean.. that they are online now?
13:22:55 <flo> the "florian" keyword worked! :)
13:23:30 <clokep> deOmega: 49 within 24 hours I think? Not exactly sure how the algorithm works. I usually look at weekly users, but that's kind of tough when I released it like 3.5 weeks ago.
13:23:47 <clokep> Colorize the active tab? That could be done in a few lines of CSS...and it should be "colorized" in that its highlighted.
13:23:54 <clokep> But you mean actually coloreD?
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13:24:32 <deOmega> yeah let me see if i can  post an example for clarification
13:25:39 <deOmega> By the way, it is a bigdeal for me that someone i  introduced to it  seems to be likingit a lot since yesterday.
13:25:46 <deOmega> to instantbird that is
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13:26:04 <flo> what were the first comments? :)
13:27:37 <deOmega> first comment was:  'I do not think  I am gonna be able to give  good feedback, because  I type a message it sends, you receive it, nothing more to it :)'    lol
13:28:31 <skeledrew1> clokep: i think i may have a general idea of what's going on with the addon
13:28:54 <deOmega> second comment was "wow, you can do multiple irc channels and detach tabs too? I like this, I am gonna  REALLY explore it.  It does what I need"
13:29:57 <clokep> skeledrew1: Please tell! :)
13:30:41 <flo> ok, so to have my add-on public, I need to nominate it so that an editor (myself looking at different pages of the website) can review it, and push it to public
13:31:10 <flo> then I receive an email saying that my add-on was reviewed... by myselft
13:31:11 <flo> pfff
13:31:14 <clokep> Shouldn't there just be a big "Make public now" button? ;)
13:31:28 <deOmega> flo: those are the two initial responses.  The  followups confirmed the passion.
13:31:35 <flo> apparently the "trusted" status only helps for updates, not the first version
13:32:31 <flo> clokep: I think there should be UI designers on it ;)
13:32:36 <flo> deOmega: looks nice! :)
13:34:00 <flo> the IRC conversation looks so naked without Show Nick
13:34:10 <flo> (I try to have only one add-on enabled at once for my screenshots)
13:34:13 <skeledrew1> clokep: i notice that the right side of the convo panel moves jerkily as i move the gripper. and the rightmost region of the panel will sometimes disappear completely (i hadve to resize the window itself to get it back). i've also experienced similar issues when moving the IRC participants gripper, but it usually just freezes for a while before responding again. to me, it appears there's a resize issue with the convo panel itself...
13:34:15 <clokep> flo: Since when do programmers care about UI or function? :P
13:34:38 <flo> maybe I'm not a programmer then ;)
13:35:05 <clokep> skeledrew1: Interesting. As I said toolkit. ;) Hopefully if someone else is having an issue I'll hear about it.
13:36:49 <flo> I haven't chnged the message theme though
13:37:33 <skeledrew1> clokep: at first, i thought it was just my CPU that couldn't handle excessive resizing properly. now i'm not so sure (though it may still have something to do with it)
13:37:42 * skeledrew1 is now known as skeledrew
13:38:17 <skeledrew> hmm. i need something to alert me when my nick isn't what i want it to be too...
13:38:30 * flo wonders if Even will "recommand" his addons
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13:40:54 <deOmega> Ah, flo... was taking a screenshot and just remembered to tell you why I have not been using  the dark message theme with colorize (which I like):  I allow others font settings to come through, and  I find a number of users messages come through in black......  on a darker background, cannot read it.
13:41:13 <Even> flo: If you're talking about show nicks, I don't have any plans of doing so :P
13:41:19 <Even> *show nick
13:42:02 <flo> too useful to be recommanded? We need to keep it a secret? :-P
13:42:54 <flo> deOmega: I think sending fonts and colors in messages is a bad idea but I do understand that people may want them ;)
13:44:11 <skeledrew> need a notice for when closing a window with multiple tabs, not just unread tabs...
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13:51:30 <deOmega> flo: I understand
13:51:37 <clokep> skeledrew: Its also possible its a difference between 0.2 and 0.3a1pre, but I doubt that since they're pretty much the same. :)
13:52:38 <deOmega> clokep:  here you go...  http://i28.tinypic.com/10894k3.jpg  this is what i meant by tab highlight.. of course the color i chose is ugly
13:53:48 * deOmega does not remember the words he uses from time to time :(
13:54:28 <clokep> Ah, it might just be the theme you're using then.
13:54:38 <clokep> It should use the same "highlighting" as when tabs are horizontal.
13:54:54 <clokep> I.e. my selected tab is a much lighter grey then the not selected tabs.
13:55:33 <flo> you seem to be luck that it works so well with a different theme :)
13:55:38 <flo> *lucky
13:57:32 <deOmega> lol  flo.    clokep:  It lightens a bit with this theme and even on the default theme, it is  different yes too, but not so noticeable at a glance for me
13:58:30 <clokep> Hmmm..yeah. I don't think that's something I would add though, it should be "as noticable" as the theme you're using.
13:58:41 <clokep> flo: I think he edited a couple of things to make it work better with vertical tabs.
13:58:59 <flo> oh, ok. Then it's cooperation, not luck :)
13:59:00 <skeledrew> clokep: what kind of difference?
13:59:22 <clokep> Yes. :) I asked if there was anyway I could make it "easier" but he's just overwriting some of my styles with !important.
13:59:36 <clokep> skeledrew: Difference in the binding? I'm not sure.
13:59:53 <clokep> Hey does anyone know Perl here? I don't, but I can read it well enough...but I'm stuck on some syntax.
14:00:23 <skeledrew> i'm using 0.2
14:01:12 <clokep> skeledrew: I know. I'm using 0.3a1pre (or js-proto 0.2, and 0.2 on Linux), it worked well with all of those
14:01:30 <skeledrew> k
14:02:18 <skeledrew> my system's dying :(. having more frequent overheats
14:02:19 <skeledrew> hope it doesn't go completely before i get another
14:02:37 <flo> clokep: having some more fun with js-proto? :)
14:03:26 <clokep> flo: A bit, the JS Test protocol is nice, I can close it and just hit "reconnect" to get the Window back. ;) Not what I'm working on right now.
14:03:34 <clokep> Oh actually I just realized I had a question for you alst night. :-D
14:03:42 <clokep> Which I think I asked once before...but anyway.
14:04:28 <clokep> I attempted to delete anonymous element from a tab element (or replace it) and it throws an error "node" does not exist (and I have to restart Instantbird to be able to open any conversations, it seems to destroy the tabbrowser object).
14:04:37 <clokep> Are you unable to modify anonymous content in that way?
14:04:40 * flo just added a crontab entry to refresh the rss feeds hourly on the frontpage of instantbird.com
14:05:17 <flo> I think you can modify it normally
14:05:52 <flo> the error "node does not exist" was pointing to something in your code or was obscure (no clear location)?
14:06:19 <clokep> Something in my code, the thing is I had anonNode.parentNode.removeChild(anonNode)
14:06:19 <flo> I remember having obscure errors like that when trying to insert messages in a conversation where the browser was not fully loaded yet.
14:06:42 <clokep> but the parentNode is not anonymous, does that matter at all?
14:06:49 <clokep> Hmmm...that could be it.
14:06:59 <flo> that's possible
14:07:28 <flo> removeChild on a non anonymous node may only work on other non-anonymous nodes
14:07:31 <clokep> I mean I suppose I could just replace the binding, but that seems like a messy way to do it.
14:07:50 * clokep is trying to show buddy icons and status icons in a stack on tabs.
14:08:20 <flo> make something like in the buddy list?
14:08:31 <flo> (with the buddy icon instead of the protocol icon)
14:08:46 <clokep> Exactly, but I'm being unable to replace the tab content. :)
14:08:54 <deOmega> clokep: So buddy icons coming soon? :)
14:09:09 <clokep> deOmega: At the rate I'm going...no. :P But eventually.
14:09:44 <flo> well, I don't think replacing the binding by a different one that has the right markup is any more messy than messing with the tags inside the existing one
14:10:20 <deOmega> I have been trying to modify some of my addons to be compatible with .3a1... i change the max version to 3 whatever, but it still does not take
14:10:22 <flo> you don't have to duplicate the code of all the methods, the new binding can inherit them (see the "extends" attribute for bindings)
14:10:29 <clokep> Hmm...possibly. I figured I could just extend the old binding and replace the content (but use the same classes, ids, etc.) and hopefully it'll "just work" (TM) [yeah right]
14:10:39 <clokep> Same thing. :)
14:11:01 <clokep> deOmega: You may have to delete extensions.ini, extensions.rdf and/or extensions.cache in your profile dir
14:13:19 <deOmega> hmm.  I was pondering going baack to .2, but then i would miss out on the early new features
14:13:50 <flo> deOmega: which are the incompatible add-ons?
14:15:09 <deOmega> minimize to tray, metalchat, vacation (Well basically, all the addon message styles it seems.
14:18:36 <clokep> The old version of MinTrayR is compatible with 0.3a1pre. ;) Not the new one.
14:20:43 <deOmega> lol.. wow
14:21:06 <deOmega> by teh way, this is what the dark tabs look like  http://i28.tinypic.com/5lwdc8.jpg
14:21:13 <deOmega> without me messing with them
14:21:45 <deOmega> you will see  the current chat has bigger and brighter text and a slightly lighter bacjground and  a border
14:22:29 <clokep> Interesting.
14:23:38 <deOmega> not to mention teh HUGE x.   Why am I asking for  more tab highlights?  My wife may be able to answer that
14:24:50 <clokep> You could always edit your userChrome.css if youw anted to add a bit more. :P
14:25:08 <clokep> That's not something I'm willing to do though since its outside the scope of what VT is supposed to accomplish.
14:25:18 <clokep> Which is simply making the tabs vertical. :)
14:25:40 <deOmega> Makes sense and I understand
14:26:44 <deOmega> It is remarkable to me though that  they have come this far
14:27:11 <deOmega> especially considering like i  mentioned earlier that the ones  for firefox  have glitches... these have been very smooth
14:27:21 <deOmega> for me :)
14:27:42 <clokep> I looked at the code for the Firefox ones...they all (in my opinion) do it in very very silly ways...and attempt to do too much.
14:28:33 <deOmega> each one teach one
14:30:16 <deOmega> when you say  edit the css..  which css.. for the theme or for ib?
14:32:02 <clokep> userChrome.css is a file that can be placed in a subdirectory of your profile and it allows you to overwrite things in the theme, etc. by hand.
14:32:10 <clokep> I forget exactly where..
14:32:26 * clokep is checking.
14:33:04 <flo> we should add a wikipage about that
14:33:16 <skeledrew> i never knew that...
14:33:24 <clokep> http://kb.mozillazine.org/UserChrome.css
14:33:30 <skeledrew> yeah. please do
14:33:31 <flo> as we are going to point to it each time someone complains about a margin being to big or too small :)
14:33:52 * flo is already busy making a Translation FAQ wikipage
14:34:34 <clokep> Not to bring up a testy topic again...but any ideas about that wiki reorganization? ;)
14:35:28 <flo> what was the goal?
14:36:09 <clokep> Make it organized.
14:36:21 <clokep> Get rid of everything having the Instantbird prefix.
14:36:38 <clokep> We should probably just get rid of the Instantbird prefix and then add lots of categories, it seems to be the easiest to me.
14:36:57 <flo> what's a category exactly?
14:37:45 <skeledrew> a directory in a tree?
14:38:41 <flo> so it's a prefix with "/" instead of ":"?
14:38:58 <clokep> Each article can have as many categories as you wish (so we can have "Category:Development") and then when you look at the Category:Development page and it lists all the pages.
14:39:01 <clokep> One sec I'll get an example.
14:39:51 <clokep> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_%28novel%29 has a bunch of categories at the bottom (one of which is "Dune novels"), if you view the category at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Dune_novels it shows all pages with that category.
14:40:16 <clokep> So it adds "more info" links automagically kind of.
14:40:56 <skeledrew> what about "pages linking here" too?
14:41:07 <clokep> What about it?
14:41:30 <skeledrew> that could be an addition. auto reference
14:41:30 <clokep> Categories are explicit groupings of pages.
14:44:19 <clokep> So al l messages styles would have [[Category:Message Styles]] on the page, then if you go to that page (i.e. wiki.instantbird.org/Category:Message_Styles) it would have links to all of them (you can also edit the actual page there if youw ant.)
14:47:22 * clokep is volunteering to do it, just doesn't want to do stuff that needs to be rolled back.
14:50:39 <deOmega> flo: those blog updates you are doing I think  are really a superb way of bridging previously mentioned comm. gap.  Shows that  there is life while providing tips and general information.  I believe that those combined with  your proposed more frequent incremental releases should  really cover that issue.
14:50:54 <deOmega> clokep: THANK You very much.
14:51:17 <flo> :)
14:51:23 <clokep> deOmega: You're welcome.
14:53:28 <flo> clokep: are categories an addition or something that requires moving all pages around?
14:53:44 <flo> how is the current "Instantbird:" prefix hurtful (except being useless)?
14:55:32 <deOmega> I would like to step back from my earlier amphasis on the roadmap.   It could  really work to a disadvantage by highlighting what is not there (may  be a feature someone does not use, but feel if it is not there the program is not ready :) )
14:55:58 <clokep> flo: Its not "hurtful" persay, I just think the page names in general suck and can be more descriptive. So if you're going to rename them anyway, removing the Instantbird: prefix would be good.
14:56:03 <deOmega> I was sayiing to make it more visible
14:56:05 <clokep> Categories are independent of page names.
14:56:37 <clokep> (I.e. any page can have any category.)
15:01:57 <flo> deOmega: yeah, we don't want to have a "this is missing" list in the front page
15:10:36 <flo> uh, that looks wrong: http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/instantbird/content/preferences/advanced.xul#121
15:11:25 <clokep> The browser part?
15:11:31 <flo> yes
15:13:46 <skeledrew> can global hotkeys be made for IB? i've got a sudden interest...
15:18:32 <flo> I hope this will help: https://wiki.instantbird.org/Instantbird:Translation/FAQ
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15:23:03 <clokep> :)
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15:42:02 <deOmega> hey, did we always have the close on hover in teh tabs? I swear I complained about that being missing... but it works now :)
15:47:53 <clokep> I think its always done that.
15:51:09 <deOmega> I think i am becoming  senile at too fast a rate
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18:00:47 <clokep> Have a nice weekend all.
18:01:03 <skeledrew> u 2 cp
18:01:53 <DGMurdockIII> hi
18:02:33 <skeledrew> DGMurdockill: hey
18:02:36 <DGMurdockIII> im still getting the the error where the one group i have is not showing up right
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18:03:21 <DGMurdockIII> 2(clokep2): ping u around
18:04:20 <clokep> DGMurdockIII: For a few minutes.
18:04:52 <clokep> DGMurdockIII: Was that directed at me? (The error?)
18:04:55 <DGMurdockIII> 2(clokep2): rember that bug i showed you about the one group not showing up correctly
18:05:08 <clokep> No, sorry. :\
18:05:16 <clokep> Is this with one of my extensions or just Instantbird?
18:05:29 <DGMurdockIII> no let me get a screen shot
18:08:58 <clokep> OK.
18:10:10 <DGMurdockIII> http://imgur.com/3QZfdl&Suoo5
18:10:55 <clokep> DGMurdockIII: Yes, now I remember. :)
18:10:58 <clokep> Sorry, lots of things going on.
18:11:23 <DGMurdockIII> im still getting the bug
18:11:55 <clokep> I don't think there was any work done oni t.
18:12:01 <DGMurdockIII> some times it seems like it fixed them i see the error again
18:12:49 <clokep> Hm....its probably an error from Unicode/ASCII conversion or something. I'm not sure exactly. Unfortunately I have to get going -- I need to go drive a few hours.
18:13:04 <clokep> Did you file a bug?
18:13:21 <clokep> https://bugzilla.instantbird.org
18:13:43 <clokep> File a bug, check if there's anything in the error console when it occurs (if there is, you should attach that).
18:14:12 <clokep> You can CC me when filing it -- clokep@gmail.com and if I have some time I'll play around with it.  (Also copy the correct name of the group into the bug so I can try it out.)
18:14:28 <clokep> Anyway I have to go, sorry. Good luck!
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18:15:11 <DGMurdockIII> ok
18:25:13 <ibbot> New purplexpcom - General bug 453 filed by dgmurdockiii@gmail.com.
18:25:15 <ibbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=453 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, buddy List group not showing up correctly
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20:28:58 <detroitlibertype> do we have any larger icons available?
20:31:42 <flo> larger than what?
20:35:15 <detroitlibertype> 32x32
20:35:57 <detroitlibertype> so that when I have my 7 box set to EXTRA LARGE ICONS my IB shortcut doesn't look itty bitty
20:36:11 <flo> file a bug :)
20:36:19 <detroitlibertype> will do!
20:36:28 <flo> make sure idechix is CC'ed
20:36:45 <detroitlibertype> OK
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21:30:09 * flo is trying to script the creation of language repositories
21:57:39 <Mic> flo: are you available for bug discussions?
21:58:54 <flo> mostly
22:03:20 <flo> Mic: what was the question? :)
22:04:07 <Mic> I'm going through the more recent bugs and try to find one myself ;)
22:04:29 <Mic> It was more a general than a specific question ..
22:04:50 <Mic> bug 266 could be covered by bug 341
22:04:53 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=266 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Instantbird doesn't launch
22:04:54 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=341 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add a way to reorder groups in the buddy list.
22:05:04 <Mic> bug 366
22:05:07 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=366 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Alphabetical sorting of group names
22:06:01 <-- GeekShadow has quit (Quit: The cake is a lie !)
22:06:18 <flo> if one can reorder them it's no longer alphabetical
22:06:47 <Mic> The underlying problem is re-ordering in my opinion
22:07:10 <flo> by the way, about the discussion we had the other day: would it help if I create a 0.3 specific "roadmap" page with more details
22:07:18 <flo> the list of things we absolutely want to do
22:07:31 <flo> the "projects" that have started / who is working on them
22:07:35 <flo> and the "todo" projects
22:07:41 <flo> the "would be nice"
22:07:44 <Mic> Sounds good
22:08:17 <flo> and file a bug for each of these project, with a status whiteboard like [0.3-blocker] [0.3-wanted] [0.3-nicetohave]?
22:08:58 <flo> similar to what I did for the "endgame" of 0.2, but doing it before actually beginning, so that people know where they can help (typically the "nice to have" which won't block the release, but would be... nice to have :))
22:09:18 <Mic> jep
22:09:39 <flo> I'm not sure using the whiteboard is good
22:09:43 <flo> flags are supposed to be for that
22:10:03 <flo> but the bugzilla UI for handling flags seems a bit more complicated
22:10:58 <Mic> I don't know about the alphabetic sorting .. how would someone sort the list(groups?). It would require some UI .. which could indicate the sorting direction (up/down). It could go to a third state indicating that the list is neither up nor down sorted but manually ordered.
22:11:48 <Mic> sorry, that's details
22:11:57 <flo> is there any use for alphabetical ordering of groups?
22:12:10 <flo> inside groups that makes sense, but the group themselves... :-S
22:12:10 <Mic> but the link why I think the bugs are connected
22:12:48 <Mic> Sorting is a way to help to find things again
22:12:53 <flo> I would expect almost everybody to want the most useful groups at the top, and the "useless" at the bottom, maybe even closed
22:13:17 <Mic> Alphabetic is just a way to sort
22:13:23 <flo> well, if you have dozens of groups maybe. Is this something that happens in real life?
22:13:37 <Mic> Don't ask me .. 
22:13:47 <flo> I currently have 11 groups
22:14:23 <flo> only one is meaningful (the closed group in which I put contacts I don't want to see)
22:14:28 <flo> all the others are "random"
22:19:24 <flo> I guess my suggestion means I'll have to go through all bugs another time very soon to adjust the whiteboard :-D
22:21:20 <instantbot> leeraccount@yahoo.de added attachment 318 to bug 339.
22:21:25 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=339 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Removing an away message should be a one-click action
22:21:32 <Mic> Ah :)
22:21:43 <Mic> Not to myself: treat attachments as well :)
22:21:46 <Mic> *Note
22:22:27 <Mic> clokep, clokep_work: putting links on attachments to bugs could be useful as well
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22:27:43 <flo> by the way, if anybody cares about it, I've put the code of my "all in on" mockup in the addons repository
22:30:21 <Mic> It's much shorter than I anticipated 
22:32:24 <flo> :)
22:32:43 <flo> I'm lazy, my add-ons are short ;)
22:34:22 <flo> I hope some of this code will be easy to reduce once we merge the js-proto branch and fix groups there :)
22:34:50 <flo> there should be a default JS implementation of a group, so the add-on should be able to just reuse it
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22:38:12 <skeledrew1> !
22:38:18 * skeledrew1 is now known as skeledrew
22:39:12 <Mic> What was your opinion on bug 20 (the es-AR translation bug)?
22:39:13 <skeledrew> flo: how do i access it?
22:39:15 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20 nor, P5, ---, florian, UNCO, es-Ar localization
22:39:37 <flo> skeledrew: access what?
22:39:47 <skeledrew> the addon code
22:39:53 <skeledrew> repos
22:39:53 <Mic> (es-Ar is not spanish-spanish but argentinian-spanish)
22:40:01 <flo> skeledrew: https://hg.instantbird.org/addons/
22:40:07 <skeledrew> thx
22:40:43 <flo> Mic: the leader of the Spanish team asked me if it was relevant to have regional version of the locale and we decided it currently isn't
22:41:00 <flo> if in the future there are critical differences, we will fork the locale into several regional ones
22:41:25 <Mic> We asked for feedback from the author and he didn't reply .. so we should resolve it as incomplete?
22:41:39 <Mic> Or do you think that might offend a future translator?
22:42:04 <flo> ok, I should disable the blocking-0.2 flags
22:42:14 <flo> s/ok, //
22:42:29 <flo> I think we should resolve it
22:43:02 <flo> incomplete sounds good. Maybe add a link to the repository where the work will happen
22:43:27 <flo> and/or show this attachment to the new Spanish translator to see if there's something valuable
22:44:14 <Mic> I've nothing to do with them .. they're not even in the locale list yet :S
22:46:42 <Mic> Linking to irc channels could be done by an addon
22:47:23 <flo> ok, enough scripting for today. Let's use them now :)
22:49:22 <flo> ./create-repository.sh Spanish es-ES es
22:49:35 <instantbot> leeraccount@yahoo.de set the Resolution field on bug 405 to WONTFIX.
22:49:37 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=405 enh, --, ---, nobody, RESO WONTFIX, Create links on channel names mentioned in IRC conversations
22:49:40 <flo> Create the repositories with the right values in all the config files and import libpurple translations in one single command. :)
22:55:28 <instantbot> leeraccount@yahoo.de set the Resolution field on bug 20 to INCOMPLETE.
22:55:30 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20 nor, P5, ---, florian, RESO INCOMPLETE, es-Ar localization
22:56:29 <Mic> Could you send them a message and point to the initial translation (even though it is for another region)
22:56:33 <Mic> ?
22:57:15 <flo> editing the wiki page becomes the most tedious thing to do :-D
22:57:45 <flo> italian repository added
23:03:53 <Mic> The logo is missing from the repository overview page
23:06:01 <Mic> Bug 449: can't we stuff the status message into a persist-attribute and read/set it after loading again?
23:06:04 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=449 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Status message is lost on restart
23:06:39 <Mic> *persisted
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23:08:27 <flo> yeah, I haven't finished fixing the apache directory listings
23:09:02 <flo> Mic: you can do that in an add-on if you want.
23:09:18 <flo> to implement it in the core, it's not really a good idea to have it depend on the buddy list being loaded
23:09:41 <flo> that window may go away (for example when it is "reduced" to the systray)
23:10:40 <flo> even for an add-on, it's easy to listen to status-changed notifications and store the value in a pref, and then at startup set the content of the pref as status
23:11:52 <flo> for the core, I think we should set a pref value each time the status is changed, and remove it when the user quits Instantbird (not if it restarts for an upgrade/add-on installation).
23:11:58 <flo> then at startup, read the pref
23:12:19 <flo> some hidden pref in about config could prevent the pref from being deleted upon normal shutdown
23:14:05 <Mic> Would be cleaner
23:14:35 <Mic> I took the idea from the order-of-groups bug which suggests using a persistent attribute
23:15:02 <flo> the orders of group is about how we display it, so it depends on the window in the first place
23:15:18 <flo> we could have several window displaying groups in different orders
23:16:20 <flo> what about having a "small" buddy list with only the important groups, with a transparent background and not border. Having it always on top (only the buddy icon visible, the name would appear on hover), or always on bottom (like an element of the Desktop)?
23:16:57 <Mic> I did something like that with DOMi once
23:17:01 <flo> at some point I had some code of an add-on to "detach" a group. It popped out a group from the buddy list into a separate window.
23:17:12 <Mic> Hiding all other chrome but the list itself and making it as small as possible
23:17:28 <Mic> It crashed at some point ;)
23:17:52 <flo> ahah
23:18:04 <Mic> "with a transparent background and not border." ie ..?
23:18:40 <flo> no border
23:19:48 <Mic> Like: buddy icons hovering the desktop?
23:21:16 <Mic> It's late, good night
23:21:45 <flo> yes
23:21:46 <Mic> Bug 369 and bug 428 could need a decision from your side btw
23:21:49 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=369 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add Localizations component to Bugzilla.
23:21:50 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=428 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Need Product:Addons + Components in Bugzilla
23:22:08 <Mic> nn
23:22:38 <flo> your question in bug 369 wasn't answered by the reporter
23:22:47 <flo> "what's the point?"
23:23:04 <flo> but well, why not
23:23:12 <flo> we need to rethink the way we communicate with translators
23:23:40 <Mic> Since he didn't answer (but still gave an idea) I guess it is open for interpretation ;)
23:23:51 <flo> I guess a product for our "official" add-ons could be useful
23:24:06 <flo> though maybe people would stuff random bugs of add-ons we don't support there
23:25:10 <Mic> the different official addons would go to the Components list then
23:26:50 <Mic> if someone files something with an addon that's not in the list, well it would be invalid (still not the best solution to ignore a bug report but maybe unavoidable if we're going to have such a product)
23:28:35 <flo> or a "wishlist" component?
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23:38:14 <Mic> I was referring to people reporting bugs in existing, but not official extensions
23:39:45 <Mic> good night now
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