#instantbird log on 07 22 2010

All times are UTC.

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01:40:11 <clokep> Splitter working for vertical tabs! :)
01:40:37 <skeledrew> :)
01:40:43 <skeledrew> nice!
01:44:03 <clokep> Just need to play with the styling a bit, but it works.
01:50:36 <skeledrew> k
01:51:19 <skeledrew> what's the minimum the splitter can minimize the tabs to?
01:51:24 <clokep> Nothing.
01:51:34 <clokep> that's how I role. ;)
01:51:40 <skeledrew> nice
01:51:55 <skeledrew> i'm going for an icons only view :)
01:52:05 <clokep> Haha.
01:52:35 <clokep> I've done some prelim work on my buddy icons as the tabs...
01:52:53 <skeledrew> cool
01:53:25 <skeledrew> VT's goona be the ultimate addon ;)
01:54:02 <clokep> :)
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09:31:14 <Mic> hello
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09:39:53 <flo> Good morning :)
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12:10:20 <clokep> Good morning!
12:13:05 <Mic> welcome
12:14:19 * clokep just heard the AOL "Welcome" voice in his head.
12:15:39 <flo> lol
12:20:56 <Mic> btw ...
12:21:07 <Mic> ... You've .. got .. mail. ;)
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12:34:44 <clokep> I did have mail. ;) But nothing "real".
12:36:42 * flo has made some changes on http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/
12:37:24 <clokep> Ah it looks good again. :)
12:38:19 <clokep> Not to be picky but shouldn't 0.1 0.1.1 0.1.2 be moved to releases?
12:38:40 <flo> that would break all the hard links
12:39:08 <flo> I'm looking for a way to make them appear "moved" in the listing, but have both the old and new URLs work
12:39:14 <clokep> The ones on the site or are you worried about external ones?
12:39:40 <clokep> Physically move them and then use a redirect in apache to go from 0.1 to releases/0.1?
12:40:23 <flo> I was thinking about symbolic links (so that it works with the ftp protocol too)
12:40:59 <clokep> Maybe, this is all a bit out of what I've ever done with an Apache configuration. :)
12:41:15 <Mic> Bug: the FAQ link from this page is broken
12:41:27 <Mic> Same for "About"
12:41:31 <Mic> Even: ping
12:41:49 <clokep> Yeah, they assume the ftp subdomain.
12:41:51 <flo> arg
12:42:07 <flo> I had already noticed the "index" link that doesn't work either ;)
12:42:49 <flo> hmm, the ftp server doesn't seem to work (anonymously) any more
12:59:39 <clokep> Yeah, prompted me for a password.
13:02:19 <Even> Mic: pong
13:03:11 <Mic> Are broken links on the website your field?
13:04:03 <Mic> There are some on the ftp-subdomain (FAQ, About, the logo pointing to index.html)
13:05:35 <flo> Mic: mine :)
13:06:11 <Mic> ok (sorry for disturbing you then)
13:06:13 <flo> the latest-trunk link that doesn't work anymore is in Even's field however ;)
13:14:54 <Even> That's not a problem :)
13:18:56 <flo> Even: you have a fix? :)
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13:31:03 <flo> hmm, maybe I can just put an index.html file in http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/ with a big nightly logo and a big release logo
13:31:09 <flo> that will hide everything else :)
13:32:34 <clokep> flo: on http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/nightly/ that link then goes to http://ftp.instantbird.com/instantbird/nightly/index.html :(
13:32:40 <clokep> etc.
13:36:24 <flo> fixed!
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13:41:45 <Mic> :)
13:42:59 <flo> Even: what do you think of enabling major update from 0.1.2 and 0.1.3 to 0.2 today?
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14:51:13 <flo> http://www.instantbird.com/update-0.2.html the mini page for the major update prompt
14:52:22 <clokep> "Preferences & other new tools." --> "New preferences & other tools."?
14:52:42 <flo> the preference window didn't exist on these versions
14:54:07 <flo> I have 11 installed versions of Instantbird on my mac + a few debug builds
14:54:21 <flo> I guess my Applications folder could use some cleanup :)
14:54:24 <clokep> Oh, I see.
14:54:49 <clokep> Hmm..."New preference window & other tools."? :P I'm not sure what you're trying to get at in that statement I guess.
14:55:08 <flo> I'm trying to get them to click "Download update" ;)
14:55:24 <flo> if you are on nightlies, you have probably seen http://www.instantbird.com/update-0.3a1pre.html instead
14:57:53 <clokep> Yeah I don't really read those I just hit update. :P
14:58:00 <clokep> I recognize the look of the Window by now.
14:58:47 <clokep> "Hundreds of themes for your Instantbird!" --> "Hundreds of themes and add-ons for you to choose!" or something.
15:01:31 <instantbot> New Websites - buildbot bug 452 filed by florian@instantbird.org.
15:01:33 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=452 maj, --, ---, raynaudquentin, NEW, latest-<version> links no longer working since the new buildbot configuration is used
15:02:30 <clokep> And what are the "other tools" with the preferences?
15:02:52 <flo> I don't know
15:02:58 <flo> :-D
15:04:06 <flo> if you can sum up the release notes in 3 cool sentences, I'm likely to use them ;)
15:05:35 <clokep> Let me take a look. :P
15:06:25 <clokep> Redesigned conversation window and visual refresh.
15:06:52 <clokep> New preference window, status changing and log viewer.
15:07:10 <clokep> Hundreds of themes and extensions for you to choose from!
15:07:18 <instantbot> tymerkaev@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 282 from FIXED to DUPLICATE.
15:07:25 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=282 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO DUPLICATE, Instantbird "latest-trunk" version on ftp show 0.2b2pre nightly builds
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15:18:30 <clokep> flo: Those are my three ideas. ;)
15:24:21 <flo> You have stuffed 2 ideas per line ;)
15:27:15 <clokep> You asked for 3 sentences not ideas. :)
15:27:59 <flo> preference or preferences?
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15:31:20 <clokep> flo: I'm not sure.
15:32:15 <flo> clokep: http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=preference+window&word2=preferences+window
15:32:21 <clokep> Might want to say "New options window, status changing and log viewer." Actually.
15:32:41 <clokep> Since "preference" really refers to the Mozilla method of storing stuff.
15:32:56 <clokep> Fair enough. :)
15:33:02 <flo> "for you to choose from" or "for your customization pleasure"? :)
15:34:48 <clokep> Well definitely not "for you to choose from", I'd say "for you to choose" or "for customization"
15:35:15 <flo> to make it your own
15:35:31 <Mic> Create your own Instantbird with hundreds of ....
15:36:47 * flo removes the "from" and decides that's enough bikeshed for today
15:37:26 <Mic> flo: sorry for interrupting, but before I forget it, I'd like to bring these two to your attention: https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=444&mark=4#c4 https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=445&mark=2#c2
15:38:33 <flo> http://www.instantbird.com/update-0.2.html
15:39:20 <flo> Mic: either a server or libpurple issue.
15:39:39 <flo> we may ask that user to try a nightly once we have upgraded libpurple on trunk
15:40:03 <Mic> "Free Upgrade" sounds like there might non-free cases
15:40:06 <flo> if that doesn't help, I'm afraid there's nothing we can do to help him
15:41:17 * flo downloads Instantbird 0.1.2
15:41:20 <clokep> I (personally) know the user from bug 445, I don't remember exactly what his problem was. I was thinking of having him destroy the profile and start over, see if it helps.
15:41:25 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=445 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Buddy list loads, but doesn't show
15:42:23 <clokep> Just a note: I assume most nightly testers are always on a "dirty" profile, so it'd be kind of easy for a bug to slip by if it requires a new profile.
15:42:36 <clokep> (i.e. a bug in creatinga new account.)
15:42:54 <flo> wow, 0.1.2 seems so old when trying it :)
15:43:34 <flo> groups weren't collapsible yet!
15:44:12 <flo> libpurple 2.4.3
15:44:30 <clokep> Wow.
15:44:49 <flo> no "Get addons" pane in the add-on manager
15:45:36 <flo> grrr, no "check for updates" menuitem
15:45:42 <flo> and no JS console either
15:47:21 <clokep> You're testing major update?
15:47:59 <clokep> So...Windows users that are given a major update won't be asked to use the installer sitll, right? That's unfortunate.
15:49:26 <flo> why?
15:51:09 <flo> http://queze.net/goinfre/major-update-0.1.2.png :(
15:54:02 <flo> http://queze.net/goinfre/major-update-0.1.2-2.png better
15:54:05 <clokep> That's unfortunate. :(
15:54:44 <clokep> Seems to be a bit of a margin at the top?
15:55:17 <flo> the update works! :)
15:55:25 <clokep> Awesome. :)
16:05:01 <flo> ahem
16:05:18 * flo tried Instantbird 0.1.3 on Windows to test the update and... it crashed at startup :(
16:05:38 <Mic> try safemode :P
16:05:47 * flo submits crashreport
16:05:57 <flo> Mic: not needed. We have the anti-crash thing ;)
16:06:09 <Mic> The anti-crash thing?
16:06:42 <flo> http://blog.instantbird.org/a21-stability.html
16:06:58 <flo> the "Crash detection and protection" part
16:17:00 <flo> ah, my startup crash is known
16:17:06 <flo> It's QQ
16:17:19 <flo> that's even the reason why we have never updated 0.1.2 users to 0.1.3
16:19:01 <flo> same on Windows : http://queze.net/goinfre/major-update-
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16:37:29 <detroitlibertype> wow! the new IB download is huge!
16:37:38 <flo> uh?
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16:48:32 <flo> going home
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18:45:40 <Mic> welcome Rysik
18:45:52 <Rysik> Hi
18:46:26 <Mic> Do you need some help or do you just want to drop in to see what's going on? :)
18:47:05 <Rysik> I just installed Instantbird. It looks cool.
18:47:31 <Rysik> but ...
18:47:42 <Mic> That's good to hear, are there any things you like especially or some things you are missing?
18:48:07 <Rysik> I can't import contacts from GaduGadu. 
18:49:14 <Mic> hmm, we have a bug on such a problem in the bugtracking system
18:50:16 <Mic> I have no idea how that usually works (as I've never used GaduGadu myself)
18:51:13 <Mic> if you want to add a comment to the (pretty old) bug, then it is here:
18:51:15 <Mic> https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37
18:51:18 <instantbot> Bug 37 maj, P5, ---, florian, UNCO, Gadu-Gadu list not loaded on connect
18:51:25 <Mic> Maybe it helps getting it fixed
18:51:46 <tymerkaev> Who's Rysik?
18:52:27 <Rysik> Gadu-Gadu work's only in Poland. I hate this messanger, but many people use it.
18:53:07 <Rysik> Just InstantBird user :)
18:53:25 <clokep> Rysik: Are there an errors in the error console? (Tools > Error Console)
18:55:51 <Rysik> No errors. 
18:56:11 <Mic> I need to go
18:56:31 <clokep> Bye Mic.
18:56:47 <Mic> Rysik: feel free to come back any time if you need support or would like to give some feedback :)
18:56:52 <clokep> Rysik: I'm not sure that's good or bad that there's no errors. ;)
18:56:55 <Mic> clokep: bye
19:02:03 <Rysik> O God! I learn English from Internet and Movies, and I still have problems with writting. :)
19:03:05 <Rysik> Do you use GaduGadu plugin from Pidgin?
19:03:25 <clokep> I think it uses the libpurple plugin, yes.
19:03:59 <clokep> Does Pidgin have trouble downloading the contact list?
19:04:40 <Rysik> I will check it. Wait a while.
19:09:04 <clokep> That'll help us identify whether its a libpurple plugin (i.e. the Pidgin Gadu-Gadu plugin) or an Instantbird problem.
19:15:43 <Rysik> There is a command in Pidgin's menu: Accounts -> Gadu Gadu -> Download buddylist from Server. Download works OK.
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19:16:44 * ChanServ sets mode +qo flo flo 
19:19:14 <clokep> Hey flo, Rysik is having a problem downloading buddy list on Gadu-Gadu (a la bug 37), any ideas?
19:19:18 <instantbot> Bug https://bugzilla.instantbird.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37 maj, P5, ---, florian, UNCO, Gadu-Gadu list not loaded on connect
19:21:25 <flo> I know the gadu-gadu plugin has been significantly changed in newer versions of libpurple, so it may help to try once our nightlies get the latest libpurple
19:25:03 <flo> uh, a command to download the buddy list? (just read the log)
19:31:05 <Rysik> Maybe the plugin don't do buddies download...
19:31:50 <Mic> It said something similiar on the old bug report
19:32:15 <Mic> I just have absolutely no idea how it works so I couldn't judge it's value
19:32:17 <Mic> *its
19:32:53 <Mic> well, bye again
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20:01:58 <Rysik> I did some research. There is a file: buddylist.c in source of Pidgin (/libpurple/protocols/gg). Maybe it helps. 
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20:23:48 <Rysik> There is an interesting function: void ggp_buddylist_load(PurpleConnection *gc, char *buddylist) :)
20:27:53 <flo> are you using lxr to explore the code?
20:28:19 <Rysik> What is lxr?
20:28:28 <flo> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/purple/libpurple/protocols/gg/buddylist.c#77
20:28:35 <flo> a search engine to look for things in the code
20:28:48 <flo> http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/
20:30:38 <Rysik> I looked in source code of Pidgin.
20:37:06 <flo> I'd like some help to test the major update on Windows.
20:37:53 <flo> it has failed in 2 different ways on my 2 Windows virtual machine... and as I'm usually *very* unlucky with anything that involves Windows... it doesn't mean much.
20:41:49 <clokep> flo: I can do it tonight if you need me to, I won't be home until 8:30ish here. which is...3 hr, 3 min from now.
20:41:52 <clokep> *30 min
20:44:43 <clokep> From 0.1.2 or 0.1.3 or from both? I can test on Win 7 and Win 7 x64.
20:45:03 <flo> from to 0.2
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20:45:36 <clokep> OK.  Anything special I need to do or just download and "Check for updates"?
20:45:54 <flo> that's enough :)
20:46:03 <-- MicTest has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a1pre)
20:46:08 <clokep> Alright. I'll leave a message in here.
20:46:13 <clokep> Unless you prefer an email.
20:46:27 <flo> I've tested it successfully on both Mac and Linux
20:47:42 <clokep> What's the failure mode you're getting? The update won't apply or is this going to like crash my computer and wipe my drive? ;)
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20:50:11 <flo> on the first VM, there's an error message while applying the update that says "please check you don't have another instance of Instantbird running", you press OK, it restarts instantbird, which detects there's an already downloaded update to apply, which does it, and... same error
20:50:28 <flo> basically you get in a loop of installing the update/error message/...
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20:50:37 <clokep> Mmhmm.
20:51:24 <flo> on the second VM, different problem: the update succeeds, but way too quickly to be "real". And when Instantbird restarts, I only have a window title bar with an icon (not even a title in the title bar) in the middle of the screen
20:51:47 <flo> if I close it the buddy list appears, but it's only a frame of the buddy list, there's no content
20:52:07 <flo> ah, the account manager too, no content either
20:52:23 <flo> it seems I'm still on 0.1.3 after the update, but with big parts of the framework being broken
20:52:48 <clokep> I'll check it out.
20:53:50 <flo> the update.log is has been different on each attempt :-/
20:57:44 <-- Mic has left #instantbird ()
20:57:48 <clokep> OK. I lied.
20:57:56 <clokep> I'm going to be home at 5:30, not enough people to play frisbee today. :(
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21:00:58 <Mic0131> I get the "other copies running" error as well
21:01:07 <Mic0131> Windows XP SP3 here
21:02:06 <Mic0131> I loads normally though
21:02:12 <Mic0131> *It
21:02:32 <flo> is there a meaningful error message in updates/0/update.log ?
21:06:02 <Mic0131> There's lots of "failed to open or stat"
21:06:20 <clokep> heading out.
21:06:25 <flo> I don't know if that's expected or not :-(
21:06:25 <-- clokep has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
21:06:46 <Mic0131> Mine is the latest pastebin
21:06:56 <Mic0131> ie http://pastebin.instantbird.com/307
21:07:31 <flo> It looks exactly like what I have in my 2nd attempt on my 2nd VM
21:07:56 <flo> I've no idea of what "failed: 7" is supposed to mean
21:08:13 <Mic0131> The only line who looks drastically different is line 764
21:08:19 <Mic0131> "### execution failed"
21:08:31 <Mic0131> (and the one you already mentioned)
21:09:34 <Mic0131> flo: maybe we should just ask some Mozilla people?
21:09:45 <flo> I have this:
21:09:45 <flo> EXECUTE PATCH chrome\toolkit.jar
21:09:46 <flo> copy_file: failed to write: 28
21:09:46 <flo> ### execution failed
21:10:10 <flo> Mic0131: yeah. Do you know where the people who know the update system are?
21:10:25 <flo> I'm not sure if there's a #update or #aus channel
21:10:30 <Mic0131> #developers maybe?
21:10:51 <Mic0131> Wait a minute
21:11:02 <Mic0131> How did you try to update?
21:11:04 <Mic0131> With a new profile?
21:11:19 <flo> no
21:11:23 * Mic0131 neither
21:11:32 <flo> I don't see how that matters
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21:11:38 <flo> the update is profile-independent
21:12:41 <Mic0131> Completely?
21:13:36 <Mic0131> well, trying anyways
21:13:37 <flo> some preferences that can be set (in the profile) can influence which update is donwloaded
21:13:45 <flo> but applying it is profile-independent
21:13:49 <Mic0131> yeah, the update channel
21:14:00 <flo> and the update url ;)
21:14:20 <-- Mic0131 has quit (Quit: Instantbird
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21:17:01 <flo> my error log is too big for pastebin
21:19:13 <flo> I've removed some repetitions of the same thing, and now I can pastebin it and see the end: http://pastebin.instantbird.com/309
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21:20:20 <Mic0131> ok, partial update failed, full update downloaded and successfully applied
21:20:32 <flo> oh, "cool".
21:20:39 <flo> that seems a bit random though, doesn't it?
21:20:59 <Mic0131> http://pastebin.instantbird.com/310
21:21:11 <Mic0131> I've got this error message in the mean time and had a crash report submitted
21:21:55 <flo> was this on 0.1.3 or 0.2? (the crash)
21:22:42 <Mic0131> on 0.1.3
21:22:49 <Mic0131> The update was downloaded after it
21:23:26 <Mic0131> brb
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21:24:30 * flo tries the complete update (I forced the partial to fail "cleanly")
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21:27:30 <flo> this time I get the "make sure no other copy is running" error :(
21:27:51 <-- Mic0131 has quit (Quit: Instantbird
21:28:04 <Mic> Trying again
21:28:53 <Mic> "no other copy" error :(
21:30:38 <flo> it seems Windows users will have to update by hand
21:32:14 <Mic> I've tried again
21:32:23 <Mic> and diff'ed the update.logs
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21:34:05 <Mic> There was a difference even though I can't tell why
21:34:43 <Mic> Some of the "failed to open or stat" error were gone (only that, no new ones appeared)
21:35:00 <flo> that looks random to me :(
21:35:27 <Mic> Yes, since I haven't done anything different this time
21:35:45 <Mic> from the first attempt
21:36:09 <Mic> (the old nickname colors hurt the eyes btw ;)
21:36:24 <flo> ahah
21:36:34 <flo> attempting to use 0.1.2 is even better ;)
21:36:41 <flo> maybe I should try 0.1.1 and 0.1!
21:37:10 <Mic> don't tell me the 0.1.3 colors very actually an improvement? ;)
21:37:24 <instantbot> Just appeared in Blog@instantbird.org - http://blog.instantbird.org/ :
21:37:25 <instantbot> http://blog.instantbird.org/n26-tip-for-macbook-users.html - Tip for MacBook users
21:37:33 <flo> one version had no nicklist and no color
21:37:35 <flo> maybe 0.1.1
21:37:43 <flo> I don't think 0.1 was able to join chats
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21:40:11 <Mic> ending the pain ..
21:45:20 <Mic> Does the ftp site show properly for you?
21:45:27 <Mic> For me the fons looks broken
21:45:31 <Mic> *font
21:47:34 <flo> I'll fix that tomorrow
21:47:59 <Mic> https://wiki.instantbird.org/images/2/25/Broken_font%2C_ftp_site_screenshot_2.png
21:48:21 <Mic> Make sure to zoom it to real size
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21:48:48 <flo> the fun when testing with 0.1.2 is that there's no "check for updates button" :)
21:49:32 <flo> Mic: I'm not sure how you end up with that
21:50:00 <Mic> I added the screenshot of the FAQ as well
21:50:12 <flo> the file of the fonts are not at the right place so Firefox probably hits a 404 error, but it should fallback to a system font, and... you seem to have a very uggly font on your system :-D
21:50:12 <Mic> It was another tab opened at the same time ..
21:50:58 <Mic> haha :S
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21:55:26 <flo> 0.1.2 -> 0.2 works perfectly
21:56:26 <Mic> hmm, looks much better with cleartype rendering for fonts :D
21:56:57 <clokep> Updater is running...
21:58:38 <clokep> Do you want to see my log?
21:58:42 <clokep> (It failed.)
21:59:51 <flo> failed differently than our previous failures? :)
22:00:00 <clokep> It was looping the same way.
22:00:06 <clokep> the update.log has a bunch of failed to remove files in it.
22:00:51 <flo> I guess we will have to give up on the idea of updating Windows users :(
22:03:46 <clokep> http://blog.mozilla.com/ted/2010/07/22/mozillabuild-1-5/
22:03:52 <clokep> If someone missed it. ;)
22:05:44 <flo> maybe our bug is https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=523915
22:06:53 <flo> in this case... I suppose the more non-existant files we try to remove, the more likely we are to fail in obscure (random) ways
22:07:16 <clokep> Mmhmm.
22:07:25 <clokep> I had a string of like 40 files probably that didn't exist.
22:08:37 <flo> it's "normal" to attempt to remove files that don't exist
22:09:04 <flo> the update doesn't know which version you had previously, so it tries to remove all the files that used to exist in some version we have released at some point
22:09:26 <clokep> Ah i see.
22:09:56 <flo> I'm not sure the way it fails on them is normal though
22:11:21 <Mic> good night
22:16:40 <flo> good night! :)
22:17:10 <clokep> 'night.
22:22:56 <Mic> flo: I think we should put the "authorization request" on the list for the next release (if it's not already there) .. in my opinion this dialog is close to unusable right now
22:23:26 <flo> which one?
22:23:36 <flo> the one to request it or to reply to it?
22:23:40 <flo> both are terrible :-/
22:26:46 <Mic> The reply is even worse
22:26:54 <Mic> And that's the one I meant
22:28:15 * flo feels the temptation to add tons of stuff in that 0.3 roadmap coming ;)
22:32:11 <Mic> is there a wip-list?
22:32:37 <flo> work in progress?
22:32:41 <flo> not yet
22:33:13 <flo> I'm still working on finishing the details around the 0.2 release
22:34:27 <flo> making sure all the parts of our websites are stored in hg repositories, boring stuff like that
22:39:10 <clokep> But that's good cause then we can submit patches. ;)
22:39:36 <flo> yeah
22:39:51 <flo> I'm trying to "fix" the details were we waste time repeatedly
22:53:44 <-- Mic has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a1pre)
23:51:42 <clokep> Just upload Vertical Tabs 0.3 with resizable tabs.